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Debbie and Larry have three adopted girls who are unruly and disrespectful. Mom doesn't believe in consequences. Dad feels the girls need boundaries but there are sensitivities regarding the adoption. Can Jo tackle the issue and instill needed discipline?
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00:00Every family has a framed portrait,
00:03but behind that photo lies the real truth.
00:07You open up this door.
00:08No, you can tell me what to do!
00:10There is no consequences for what's going on,
00:12so they just continue to do it every week, all the time.
00:15Because Larry's gone during the week, it's challenging for me.
00:18Clean it up, Elise.
00:19But that's not mine, Elise.
00:22Is this what we're gonna do today?
00:25They don't listen to anything I say.
00:27Then you go away!
00:29Oh!
00:30You want my mother?
00:31Why did you adopt me?
00:32You want my father?
00:33I hate your father.
00:34Hurting comments.
00:35I don't know how to handle that.
00:36They know what buttons to push.
00:38As adoptive parents, I don't want to push them further.
00:41They need to know that they're safe and that they're secure,
00:46that we're not going anywhere.
00:48Do you believe that having consequences
00:50is not what you should be doing?
00:52Right.
00:53When we put consequences on them, it threatens them.
00:56This is ridiculous and they need to learn how to respect you when I'm not there.
01:00Blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:02Why wasn't it nipped in the bud?
01:04How do you teach respect and responsibility if they have no consequences?
01:08Larry, you're not really backing her up.
01:10It's ludicrous.
01:11Nothing's going to change.
01:13Can I open up to Debbie?
01:14No, I can't.
01:15Partner.
01:16Partnership.
01:17Partnership.
01:18Together.
01:19Together.
01:20Me!
01:21Me!
01:22Allow!
01:23Okay.
01:24I think you're delusional.
01:25Behind the portrait is the truth.
01:26And I'm here to deal with the truth.
01:28Well, it's windy today in Manhattan Beach, but I'm ready to meet the Bross family, who
01:39do need my help with their three adopted daughters.
01:43I'm Larry.
01:44I'm 50 years old.
01:45This is my wife, Debbie.
01:46We have three girls, twins that are 11, and the oldest is 14 years old.
01:51And we've been married for 18 years.
01:53We've been together for about 21.
01:55And then shortly after we'd married, decided we wanted to have a family.
01:59And for several years, we did a lot of infertility treatment.
02:03I had in vitro done a few times.
02:05I miscarried a few times.
02:06And we decided that we were going to try to adopt.
02:10And our adoption was like that.
02:13And we brought Addison home two weeks later.
02:16Well, she was born two weeks later.
02:18And then we knew we wanted to have more children, so we started the adoption process a second
02:23time when Addison was about two.
02:25We asked her, do you want a brother or do you want a sister?
02:28She said, I want two sisters.
02:30And then we have the twins.
02:32Then there were five of us.
02:34And you know, the three of them, it was overwhelming.
02:36The twins are much less mature than Addison.
02:40And that shows now more than ever before.
02:44I'm Addison, and I'm 14.
02:46I have two sisters and twins.
02:49They're 11.
02:50I'm Elise Ross.
02:51I'm Abriel Ross.
02:57We're not the typical quiet family.
03:00Ow!
03:01Ow!
03:03Mom and Dad are not together during the week because they moved from Vegas and Dad chooses
03:09to still work in Vegas during the week and come home on the weekends.
03:13That creates a lot of strain on Mom because it means that she's with the girls throughout
03:17the week.
03:18I want father!
03:20He works in Las Vegas and he commutes back and forth every week.
03:24So he's only here with us on weekends.
03:26But everything's a battle.
03:28And I've kind of given up on trying lately.
03:31I just feel kind of overwhelmed.
03:32Apparently, the twin girls are misbehaving.
03:36How much of that is because they're adopted?
03:39And how much of that is because they're teenagers getting away with murder?
03:42No one, you want my father and number two, you can't control me.
03:45So go away!
03:47I am your father.
03:48No you aren't.
03:50Very hurt, hurting comments.
03:53I don't know how to handle that.
03:55I hate you.
03:56I wish you would die.
03:57Why did you adopt me?
03:59She has some explosive anger behavior that really, really scares me.
04:06I said stop it, Abigail.
04:09Give me my phone.
04:10Both Mom and Dad don't agree with how they're raising the children because right now Mom doesn't
04:15believe that these children deserve consequences and that they need to identify their own feelings,
04:21whereas Dad is in another place where he feels his children need to take accountability for their behavior.
04:27I'm studying a couple different programs, but I'm parenting differently, where I'm not using consequences with the girls.
04:34Shut up, Molly!
04:36You don't ever do anything about it, so obviously it doesn't mean that much to you.
04:40Yes, totally.
04:41Because of their adoption, they need to know that they can come home and be supported in every aspect of their journey in life.
04:49And consequences separate us, they don't bring us together.
04:54That's a little bit where Larry and I differ.
04:56I don't like the way you're disrespecting me.
04:58I believe that consequences teach you what's going to happen in life, and they need that.
05:07So today, my first plan is to meet the family, take a look around their home, see how they interact with one another, ask questions.
05:16Lots of questions to ask.
05:17How will they respond?
05:18How will they react?
05:19And to come away today certainly knowing some facts so that I can push this family forward and make them a lot happier than certainly where they are right now.
05:28Hello.
05:37Well hello.
05:38Hi, pleasure to meet you.
05:39Pleasure to meet you.
05:40Welcome.
05:41Can I come in Debbie?
05:42Hi, can I come in?
05:43Absolutely.
05:44Pleasure to meet you.
05:45Pleasure to meet you.
05:46Pleasure to meet you.
05:47Come in and meet our kids.
05:52This is Anna.
05:53This is Anna.
05:54Pleasure to meet you.
05:56They knew I was coming, right?
06:00Yeah, they knew you were coming.
06:02They knew I was coming today.
06:03Yes.
06:04Girls, come in here.
06:06This is Abriel, this is Jill.
06:08Hi, Abriel.
06:09This is Elise.
06:10Hi, nice to meet you.
06:11Hi, Elise.
06:12Hi, Elise.
06:13Hi, pleased to meet you.
06:14Hi.
06:15Come over here.
06:16I can speak to you over here a little bit better.
06:19Do you know why I'm here?
06:21We all need help on different aspects.
06:26Like, they need help with, like...
06:28Not fighting, and she needs help with not flipping her hair and school.
06:33So, one way or another, you think I'm here for one of the girls or the other, right?
06:36Uh-huh.
06:37What do we say?
06:38And to help my parents.
06:39What do parents need help with?
06:41Sometimes they don't know how to, like, manage us.
06:44I am trying to move out of living, running our house under the philosophy of consequences.
06:53What are consequences then?
06:55Well, to me, a consequence is where you're trying to control behavior by demeaning or belittling
07:02or making somebody wrong.
07:05That's what you see as consequence?
07:07Mm-hmm.
07:08Okay.
07:09And, well, Larry has a different opinion of that.
07:11No, I believe there should be consequences.
07:13When you have an action, there's a consequence.
07:15And that, to me, is how you would teach your children to live in today's society.
07:20So you're not actually talking the same language here. Are you aware of that?
07:22Yes.
07:24That doesn't quite seem to be working.
07:26Well, it's, it's, um, what I'd love to do. Girls, go and do your thing, okay?
07:31Because I think that's really important. Let's continue this conversation.
07:34I, I, I, you're studying, am I correct in saying spiritual psychology?
07:41Mm-hmm. Yes.
07:42What is it?
07:43Spiritual psychology?
07:44You know, it's about spiritual evolution and, and moving into a place of kindness and loving.
07:50Do you think your behavior's changed since you've, um, taken this course?
07:55Yes. I want to treat them with respect.
07:57Yes.
07:58As human beings.
07:59Yes.
08:00For me to say, you will do this because I tell you to do this and that's it, does not feel good to me.
08:05How do you teach respect and responsibility? If they disrespect you completely, especially towards Debbie, she would get, you're not my birth mother.
08:13Would you say emotionally that it had a severe impact on you, uh, those words?
08:18Well, it, I felt that I wasn't connecting with them in a way that they felt really loved and safe and supported because their behavior was very angry.
08:37How, how old was it that you had them from what age?
08:39One day old and the twins were two and a half weeks old.
08:41But what's the history there with respects to the twin girls? What's the...
08:46Well, I, I, I don't, they don't know a lot of their history, so...
08:50Do you feel, um, that they're too young?
08:53We're not sure, like, how to handle that.
08:56Fine. Okay.
08:58I've learned that there are no consequences in this house.
09:02That the children have no responsibilities.
09:05That they are able to behave, manipulate, lie, and do as they please when they're in their mother's company
09:11because there is no consequence for such behavior or any respect.
09:18What do you really feel when you come home?
09:22Most of the time, tension in the house.
09:25What about yourself?
09:26Well, I feel that he thinks everything's just okay and life is good. It's all, they're maturing, they're getting better.
09:36And, um, and I, I don't believe that he's really willing to accept what really, how our house really functions.
09:44So you don't feel supported because you call Harry during the week, I would assume, right?
09:51With what the kids are not doing and how they're misbehaving.
09:54So when he comes home, it's just playtime.
09:56He doesn't have to deal with basically the crap you have to deal with during the week.
10:00Yeah.
10:01I try to support her over the phone.
10:04I don't really know what I want to say because it's a, it's an impossible task for me to listen to all the bad things
10:10and be on the other end and not be able to do anything.
10:12You would want to what? What would you want to say?
10:13Put the girls on the line because this is ridiculous and they need to learn how to respect you when I'm not there.
10:18So you feel like your hands are tied because you're in Vegas?
10:21Yes. There's no consequences for what's going on. So they just continue to do it every week, all the time.
10:26You firmly believe that this repetitive behavior carries on because they can just basically walk all over mom and do what they want?
10:35I really believe that, yeah.
10:38Is that not a fact? Do they not do that?
10:41You know, they do.
10:44Why can't you just say what you truly in your heart want to say?
10:51Debbie gets upset super easy at everything I do.
10:54She likes it to be her way. She wants it to be a certain way. It's tough.
10:58And so I, I most of the time tippy toe around so things are good.
11:02And that's going to create a problem with respects to the wedge.
11:08This space here for what the children recognize they can get away with and what they can't get away with.
11:15It's going to create that.
11:17Yeah.
11:19Please just sit with that.
11:21Okay.
11:22Okay.
11:26Abigail, stop!
11:27I'm not doing it!
11:29Mom!
11:30Stop it!
11:32How would you look at me?
11:35Get in here and clean this up.
11:37See, now this is, this is not to my standards.
11:40Oh, you mean you have an expectation?
11:42Of course I do!
11:43You have expectations?
11:44Yes!
11:45But you don't have it with behavior.
11:47They're, they're well aware of my expectations with the kitchen.
11:51How do you reinforce that they keep up those expectations in the kitchen?
11:56I just have to sit here and nag them until it gets done.
12:00And does that, does that help?
12:01No.
12:02No, it doesn't.
12:03So what leads you to believe right now that they are going to clean the kitchen?
12:08It doesn't, that's why I said.
12:09Why?
12:10Why?
12:11Because they don't ever clean the kitchen.
12:12Why?
12:13Because they have no consequences if they don't.
12:16Oh God, the light bulb just went on, blimey.
12:22Think about what I'm saying.
12:25This is about them being accountable for their own actions.
12:28I feel like this is all about how wrong I am and that frustrates me a little bit.
12:34Can I open up to Debbie?
12:36No, I can't.
12:37It's, it's, if I even remotely try, she teaches me.
12:41She tells me, I study this and you, we need to do this.
12:45And so it's hurtful.
12:47It's hurtful and, and it suppresses me and it puts me in a shell.
12:51He respects that you're taking these classes.
12:55What he's not agreeing with is actually the kids being able to behave the way they do,
12:59manipulate the way they do when it suits them and actually get away with murder.
13:03That's what I'm hearing.
13:05So in order for them to change their behavior,
13:09they need to feel some kind of pain inflicted on by me to change their behavior.
13:14That's not pain.
13:15Well, why, what else would change their behavior if it's not painful for them?
13:20Are you saying that kids shouldn't feel disappointment?
13:24That kids shouldn't feel?
13:26You cannot live in a world where you wrap your children up in cotton wool,
13:30that they never feel any kind of disappointment.
13:35You know, why there's no kids around?
13:38I mean, the whole leverage of being able to throw in your face.
13:42Oh, you can't tell me, you're not my mom.
13:45I mean, I think the kids are smart.
13:47They know what buttons to push.
13:49I don't take that personally.
13:51I disagree.
13:52I think you've still got more looking, Debbie.
13:55I think you do.
13:57I think it hurts you.
13:58Well, it hurts me because I sense that they're hurting inside,
14:01because they were adopted and that they're not able to articulate that.
14:05And it gets expressed in anger and, um...
14:08Because, because they don't know who their mom is?
14:11Why don't they know who their mom is?
14:14I'm just not sure they're emotionally mature enough to handle it.
14:19When they're throwing up, you're not my mom,
14:23and using that as basically a leverage, it's time.
14:28That may be true.
14:30It's time.
14:32I do know that things need to change.
14:35I don't want to see myself as being an angry, fearful mother.
14:40You know?
14:41And I need guidance with that.
14:43Clearly, these parents need to understand that there is a difference
14:47between the emotional needs of their girls
14:51and them meeting and understanding those needs,
14:54and fundamentally teaching their children
14:57how to be accountable for their own behavior.
15:01We've got three beautiful young girls up there
15:04that'll actually think it's carte blanche
15:05to be able to behave the way they want
15:07and be rewarded for it every day.
15:09So there's much work to be done here.
15:16So here I am, back at the Bross family,
15:18and I have a game plan for them,
15:20which is to make sure that they are working as partners.
15:23Mum and Dad need to be able to work out house rules and consequences.
15:27Quite frankly, this house needs structure,
15:30and without it, well, you can see the mayhem.
15:32So that's what I'm about to put in now.
15:42How's Elise?
15:43Elise stormed out of here because she didn't want to help clean up.
15:46Was she asked to?
15:47Yes.
15:48Yes?
15:49How did you handle it?
15:51I told her she can help clean up
15:52or she can clean it all up herself.
15:54When she settles down,
15:55she can come back and clean up all the kitchen up.
15:57She's used her temper to just get out of not wanting to clean up.
16:01Right.
16:02You know, storming off about not wanting to do something
16:04you've been asked to do,
16:06it's not going to get you out of doing it.
16:08Well, I'm going to go talk to Elise,
16:10then we'll gather around upstairs.
16:12Upstairs?
16:13Yeah, short and sweet.
16:14Hey, I just want you to know that storming off like that
16:21does not get you out of the chores
16:23and it's not fair to your sisters.
16:25And so what we did, like Dad said, is I asked...
16:29No, I have to plant the whole kitchen now.
16:32Okay, so storming off like that doesn't get you out of the...
16:35Elise, Elise.
16:37Elise, come here, please.
16:39Can I just come here, please?
16:40Can I just show you what you were doing?
16:43Okay, come over here with me, love.
16:45I want you to see something.
16:46Come over here.
16:47All right, when your dad was talking to you,
16:49you were showing defiance, all right,
16:51by going to walk past your dad, all right?
16:55When your dad's talking to you about something,
16:57when you walk away like this
16:59and you then push her back to listen,
17:03all right, it creates something that's unnecessary here.
17:06Okay, unfortunately, you do have to hear this
17:09because you did make a choice not to listen
17:13to what was being asked of you.
17:15What do you think the right thing to do now is?
17:20Clean up the kitchen.
17:22Go clean up the kitchen and so you can join us as a family
17:25and do a good job.
17:26Good job?
17:27Good job.
17:32Okay, both come with me.
17:34Are we open to the house rules?
17:37Absolutely.
17:38Let's write these down.
17:40Larry doesn't think that Addison needs
17:42to put her electronics up at eight.
17:44See, I don't know if I agree with that as a rule.
17:46Because we can't...
17:47Um...
17:48Antagonizing is broad.
17:51Nine o'clock in her bedroom,
17:54we'll not go over with her well at all.
17:57Expect pushback.
17:59That's what you should be expecting.
18:01Own it.
18:02Own it.
18:07Move over.
18:08So, Mom and Dad,
18:10we've worked really hard in coming up with this list
18:13and it's very important to us
18:14and the functioning of our home.
18:16Get off, Elise.
18:17Abriel, please put that down.
18:21So, as I was saying,
18:23Mom and Dad worked really hard
18:24on putting this list together.
18:26We agree on them.
18:27We want you guys to agree on them.
18:30Would you like that too, Addison?
18:32Whatever.
18:34Whatever?
18:35Whatever.
18:36I can't do anything about it.
18:37I don't want them.
18:39Okay.
18:40I had 9.30 by the time when I was 11.
18:44We've talked about how important it is
18:46for you guys to have a routine at nighttime.
18:49You give babies routines, Mom.
18:51There's nothing to do in my room.
18:52So, basically, I'm going to bed at 9.30
18:54like an eight-year-old.
18:55Addison, maybe we can talk about weight.
18:57Just stop talking about it.
18:58Addison, that's disrespectful.
18:59Don't talk to me that way.
19:00Don't care.
19:03Only Monday through Thursday, Addison.
19:05This is what you want.
19:06This is not what we want, okay?
19:08Do you feel it'll make a better home
19:10if everybody comes up back for their self?
19:11I don't care.
19:12And Addison, you have expressed to me many times
19:19how much you want this.
19:21I want you to control them, not me.
19:24Oh.
19:25I don't act like they do.
19:26This is uncalled for.
19:28Do you clean up after yourself, Addison?
19:30I don't act like little brats.
19:32Do you clean up after yourself, Addison?
19:34No, but that's not making me go to bed at 9.30.
19:38I'm taking away my phone.
19:40Like, oh my God, I'm not four.
19:44I'm not them.
19:46No, but I don't understand why we have to have that rule.
19:49Oh, but every kid does not have their phone taken away
19:54or their iPads.
19:55I don't care.
19:56My mom has three days,
19:57and she goes to bed later than I do.
19:59This is unreasonable.
20:01We can adjust.
20:02But right now, we don't have boundaries.
20:05This is just going to make everybody more .
20:08All I say is, you know what?
20:11Have the rules.
20:12Prove yourself.
20:13Prove your maturity.
20:15Prove it to your parents.
20:16Earn their trust.
20:17Because you broke it when you chose not to listen.
20:19Prove it then.
20:20That's right.
20:21We can adjust when we have proven that we can do this.
20:23Do you think you can do all of this?
20:25Yes.
20:26Okay.
20:27And so when you prove up, we agree to adjust.
20:29Okay, move on.
20:30You're not accomplishing anything right now.
20:31I think it's important, Addison, that we talk about this.
20:34You're just making me more angry.
20:35Well, I'm sorry it's making you angry.
20:37I don't want to have this conversation because it's not going to change,
20:40and I understand that.
20:41So just let me be alone right now.
20:43I'll respect that.
20:46Okay.
20:50Um, was that door slamming?
20:52Yeah.
20:53Slamming doors?
20:54That's not okay.
20:55So who wants to handle that situation?
20:56I do, because I have to deal with it the most.
20:57Addison, it's...
20:58Will you open the door?
21:03It is not okay for you to slam the doors.
21:09I understand you're upset, Addison.
21:11I see that.
21:12I hear that.
21:13But it is not okay to slam the door.
21:15So will you come out here and go back in your room and close the door?
21:20Oh, Addison, can we try that again?
21:25I didn't mean to slam it.
21:28Let's try it again.
21:38What was that?
21:40Did you kick the door one night?
21:42I hit the door.
21:43Addison, that's not okay.
21:44This is our personal space.
21:46This is our home.
21:47It's not okay to hit the door.
21:52Do you understand that?
21:53Yes, I understand you.
21:54Do you understand why?
21:55Yes, I understand why.
21:56Okay.
22:03She's probably feeling lonely right now and could use a shoulder.
22:08Oh, a shoulder.
22:09You mean a shoulder?
22:10Oh, what's up?
22:12Mom tough on you, was she?
22:14Eh?
22:15Well, now we want to be the friend.
22:16Did you just undermine all of Mom's work?
22:18That's not fair for Mom.
22:19That's undermining Mom.
22:20And that's not being together.
22:23Good point.
22:24Partner.
22:25Partnership.
22:26Partnership.
22:27Together.
22:29We have to work together.
22:31We have to support each other.
22:34See you tomorrow.
22:35Enjoy your dinner.
22:36Bye, Joe.
22:37Thanks so much.
22:38Have a nice weekend.
22:39Have you got it?
22:40Mm-hmm.
22:41It was important today for Addison to shed those tears and for Mom to not well up and start
22:47pacifying the situation.
22:49And they're going to create the stability.
22:51And these kids are going to know where the land lies.
22:54When your kids are pushing, pushing, pushing, you know that you're on the right path.
22:59Just stick to your guns.
23:01Hitting is not allowed.
23:02No.
23:03I want you to hear me right now.
23:04No.
23:05Hitting is something I am not willing to tolerate from this house.
23:06No.
23:07No.
23:08Elise, you're being disrespectful.
23:09I think you need to be respectful.
23:10Well, this is annoying.
23:11She started it.
23:12It's bullying behavior, Elise.
23:13And we are not fully in our house.
23:14Really?
23:15So why did she start it?
23:16So shut up.
23:17You know what, Elise?
23:18That's disrespectful.
23:19I didn't like it.
23:20I don't care.
23:21I want you to uncover your face right now.
23:36Hey, Elise, let's go.
23:37You need to go to bed right now.
23:39You've lost your privilege of staying up tonight.
23:41Come on.
23:42Dad, this is unfair.
23:43She started it.
23:44Elise, you're the one that was hitting, not Abriel.
23:48Leave me alone!
23:51She's the one that's starving it!
23:57Do you want to lose your privilege?
23:58I'm sweating out loud!
24:01You need to go up to your room.
24:03No.
24:04Then calm down.
24:05Dad, every time you say calm yourself down, that just makes everybody more f***ing.
24:10I want you to uncover your face.
24:11No!
24:12Stop touching me!
24:13At least you need to go to bed and we'll talk about your consequences tomorrow because there
24:25will be consequences.
24:26No, I don't even want to talk about this anymore.
24:29You guys don't respect any boundary and limits around this house and we're going to leave
24:32the room and leave you by yourself, but I want you to know it is absolutely unacceptable
24:36and there will be consequences for how you're acting.
24:38Ew, I'm so scared!
24:40Okay.
24:41So last night I left the family knowing that both mum and dad were going to be implementing
24:52the house rules.
24:53I have come in today to find out that this family have been kicking off and the kids have
24:59been screaming and misbehaving because they don't want to do as they're told.
25:03And that, for me, is not good enough.
25:06What's the point of being here with this family, giving them techniques if they're not going
25:11to use them?
25:12I think we've got big problems.
25:15I actually saw the footage.
25:17I think you're delusional, the pair of you, to just sit here and think that what went
25:22on last night is ludicrous.
25:24Nothing's going to change.
25:26Anything short of just getting physical with her was, uh, there was, I couldn't figure
25:30out what the next step was, so we told her, we'll deal with the consequences tomorrow.
25:34And why tomorrow?
25:35Why tomorrow?
25:36Why wasn't it nipped in the bud?
25:39Do you hear this tone right now?
25:41This is what the kids should be hearing.
25:43You've got Elise being smart-mouthed and sassy.
25:46Where does she get off thinking that it's okay to talk, talk to you both like that?
25:53Well, truthfully, I believe we did tell them this is not okay.
25:56And Debbie told them, and I told them.
25:58And so, to the point of what, other than getting physical with them, what else is the next step?
26:06When that behavior started happening between the twin girls, it would have been enough.
26:10You know the house rules.
26:12Move over right now, otherwise this is what's going to happen tomorrow.
26:15There and then, you should have hit them with a consequence.
26:17Move now.
26:18Enough.
26:19And if she doesn't?
26:20Then tell her that you'll be taking away everything from her.
26:22That's valuable.
26:23These girls, as far as I'm concerned, they sit pretty.
26:26Debbie, Larry, they sit pretty.
26:28They don't want for nothing.
26:29And if you carry on like this, you're going to make them very, very spoiled.
26:33And the more I sit back and watch this behavior, the more it frustrates me because you guys know what to do.
26:41You've got to get tougher.
26:44You have to get tougher because it's what they need.
26:47I have more clarity on that and I do know that some of that's necessary because we've let things go so far.
26:54Okay.
26:55What I would love to see happen is bring the girls upstairs and have the conversation that you should have had with them last night.
27:01With the tone, with the reflection, with the content, and with the togetherness.
27:06Okay?
27:08Girls, turn those off and come upstairs.
27:16Sit up.
27:17We are having a family discussion.
27:19I thought I was stretching.
27:20Okay.
27:21Without the face, Elise.
27:23What?
27:24This is a serious, serious talk we're going to have about the behavior that we saw last night with you two.
27:32Hey, Elise, I let you get away with last night, right?
27:35Yes, but what am I doing right now?
27:37But consider nothing.
27:38And I want to discuss this with you.
27:39What happened last night?
27:40I want to discuss this.
27:41Okay, then discuss.
27:43And I am very serious about it.
27:45What happened last night is absolutely unacceptable in this house.
27:51In the past, Mom and Dad have not stood by what we said.
27:55But from this point forward, that's changing.
27:59And if you don't believe us, you can try it.
28:01Because we know all the little privileges you love.
28:04And we will start taking it away if you cannot live within the boundaries of what we've created.
28:09Because this is absolutely 100% ridiculous that we have to put up with this disrespect.
28:14If it happens again, and you lose a privilege, and you start to cry, oh well.
28:27Have a good cry.
28:29What are you hearing us say?
28:31Don't do it again.
28:32I can listen.
28:33Don't do what again?
28:34What are we asking you to not do again?
28:36Hit, bicker, or fight.
28:38We get it.
28:39Excuse me?
28:40Elise?
28:41Excuse me?
28:42Elise, that is an absolutely unacceptable tone to your mother.
28:45I said we get it.
28:46A leech.
28:47That is unacceptable.
28:52Absolutely unacceptable in this house to talk to either one of us like that.
28:59Elise, it affects our whole house.
29:02The disrespect.
29:03And if we allow this behavior to continue, we have failed.
29:06Agreed.
29:07So, without further ado, it may not be an agreement from the kids, but do we understand what mum and dad are saying?
29:15Yes.
29:16Elise?
29:17Yes.
29:18OK.
29:19Mum and dad did successfully well in being able to address the twin girls about their behavior, and it will be up to the pair of them to stick together and create a united front and follow through.
29:31Um, I would love a game of volleyball, I have to say, because I've seen a volleyball tent out there.
29:35So, Elise, I have you on my team.
29:37All right, if you can set up the net, I wouldn't mind a game after.
29:40Come on, Alison.
29:41For me, it was very important that after Debbie and Larry had spoke to their girls, that we actually just move on and do something fun.
29:47It's about these kids knowing that there are no grudges being held, but there are true expectations that need to be met.
29:53And that's why I got the whole family out playing volleyball, because I know they all love to play it.
29:57I feel like I need my board shorts on and my shades.
30:03You got it.
30:04Oh!
30:06Oh!
30:07Elise, go for that.
30:10Go like this.
30:11Do the two-two.
30:13Oh!
30:14You score or you win?
30:15Oh, I better score, then.
30:16Go back to school, then.
30:22Oh!
30:23Oh!
30:24Oh!
30:25Oh!
30:26Oh!
30:27Oh!
30:28Oh!
30:29We win!
30:30Bye!
30:31Come see now.
30:35You spoke last night after we spoke.
30:37We talked a little bit about their adoption and who they are.
30:40We really want them to know that it's okay to talk and have a place where they could ask questions.
30:45Because it's really, really important for their well-being.
30:51Because like you said, it's not a big secret.
30:53And we know it's on their mind and they think about it.
30:56And we want to assure them that no matter what they feel or think about that situation in their life,
31:03that we still love them.
31:04Because that's what they need to know.
31:05That's what they need to know.
31:06Yes.
31:07That's what they need to know.
31:08We're thinking it's a conversation that we would like support with with them.
31:13What?
31:14You have a tubby.
31:15I was doing my homework.
31:16Oh, you were.
31:17So this better be important.
31:19Okay.
31:20It's very important.
31:21You know, we talk a lot about Addison's history, but we really want to talk about issues about your birth parents' history.
31:28I know there's questions that you guys have and things that run through your mind about it.
31:37It's okay to ask us anything you want to know about your birth families.
31:41We want to make sure that you don't feel like that you weren't loved or...
31:47I know we were loved because if we weren't up for adoption, like our birth parents wanted the best for us,
31:55we probably wouldn't be in a good sanctuary if we were in the same house as our birth parents.
32:02That's a really accurate thing, Avril.
32:06You know, they had challenges in their life.
32:09Can you give me two facts about Elise's biological mother?
32:13She was 31 when she had you, and she left the hospital the day that she had you.
32:21And it was love and selflessness that they made the decision.
32:26They were going to make sure that you were with parents who could give you what they felt you absolutely deserved in your life.
32:36And it's a hard decision, like, to put their own children through.
32:42Would it be helpful if you didn't want to go to anyone but you just had a question in your head and you wanted it answered?
32:49Like, write it down on one of those cards and stick it in, like, a box and actually just get the answer to it.
32:55Oh, I'll do that.
32:56You'd do that?
32:57I'll do that.
32:58Well, we'll make a box for you.
32:59Make a box for it, yeah.
33:00Make a special box for that.
33:01Can I decorate it?
33:02Yes.
33:03Is that not cool?
33:04Is that a cool system?
33:06Yeah, I like that.
33:08It's an issue here.
33:09So, as you've just had that conversation, I don't want to just round you all up and just let them do their own thing.
33:20It's been good, right?
33:22I just want to say that the way the girls received this and you guys all coming together.
33:28Nice.
33:29As you know, I'm, you know, I'm going away for several days.
33:33And when I come back, I'd love to be able to hear that you'd focus on some homework.
33:38Make sure there's a nice balance between you reaching out to the girls, validating what they're doing,
33:43but also sticking to those house rules and making sure you're following through with your consequences.
33:48And, of course, I'm looking forward to seeing those boxes because it may, you know, prompt them to start writing things down.
33:54You never know.
33:55Well, they were very excited.
33:56I suspect that there'll be, there'll be a lot in there initially.
34:00Give me some love, you.
34:01OK.
34:04Thanks, Jo.
34:05You're awesome.
34:08Thank you for having me.
34:09It's been a pleasure.
34:10See you later.
34:11OK.
34:12All right.
34:13Thanks.
34:14Most part of the day, I would be sitting here saying, I hope there's no trouble,
34:17but I actually hope that these girls do push the boundaries a little bit,
34:20because it will only help mom and dad solidify what they mean.
34:26So we will see how they go.
34:28So today's the first day without Jo.
34:33You know, I've been encouraging them to use their boxes.
34:36Elise has written hers quite a bit.
34:38I like the question box because I can tell my mom something without actually telling her.
34:46You get his, like, let out your emotions without really letting them out.
34:51So, Abreon put a note over there last night.
34:53She's hilarious.
34:54She said, then you have to sign your name on here.
34:56So I know that it's really you answering my question.
34:59But the things they're asking are really sweet, actually.
35:03You know, just life stuff.
35:05Strike one.
35:06I don't think our Bernice would be behaving really well right now.
35:18What?
35:19What?
35:20Exactly.
35:21That's Aubrey out.
35:22Oh, how did she get canola cooking oil all over her?
35:25Scratch it, please.
35:26No.
35:27Karma.
35:28I've got every bit of this kitchen cleaned up, Elise.
35:32Hold it up.
35:33Come on, girls.
35:34You guys are acting like you're six right now.
35:37Elise, really, stop.
35:39I'm taking your iPad.
35:41I think you've added another week.
35:44Mother, keep going, Elise, because I'll add another week for every single time you mouth me back.
35:49Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
35:52Make it easy.
35:55I can't finish.
35:57I need to treat it.
35:58Elise.
35:59Go on, my arm.
36:00Make out of here.
36:02Are you embarrassed right now?
36:05Elise, is that what this is all about?
36:10Do you want my mother?
36:13It only takes so much negativity being thrown at you.
36:18I think I need to just stand stronger through that.
36:21I don't know.
36:24That's tough.
36:31Do you want to grab your math homework?
36:32We can work on it a little bit.
36:34I didn't work on math homework right now.
36:38It's a perfect time.
36:40No, this is unfair.
36:43Because she wrote your name?
36:44No, I don't want her to.
36:46No.
36:47You're being irrational.
36:48Shut up.
36:49Okay, that's enough.
36:50I tried to be firm but fair.
36:53Stop.
36:54I have to use it for homework.
36:56You do better stop it.
36:57If I'm firm initially, they're not taking me serious.
37:01I feel like I need to be firmer.
37:03Enough.
37:04No.
37:05Enough.
37:06No.
37:07It needs to be something that I can show that I mean what I say.
37:11You know what?
37:12You need to go up to your room.
37:13I don't care.
37:14Alisa, you need to go to your room.
37:15Alisa, this is unacceptable in our house.
37:16You need to go to your room.
37:17No, I don't.
37:18I have to do my homework.
37:19I'll take it upstairs with you.
37:20You need to go upstairs.
37:21Take it upstairs.
37:22God, I hate you all.
37:24Alisa's getting used to the new rules.
37:28We have to just stick to our guns, and she can sit in a room for days at a time.
37:33There's a lot of pushback right now.
37:35She's not liking it.
37:36We have to stick to our guns, and then she'll stop doing this.
37:40Because if every time she disrespects us, she has to go to her room, she's going to say,
37:45I better stop that.
37:46I don't want to have to go to my room all night.
37:48I need to figure out how I can do this without feeling so upset inside.
37:53Right.
37:54They need to know you're willing to go there, as Joe said.
37:56Stick to our guns.
37:58No, no.
37:59Well, they'll get over it.
38:06Are all your electronics in the basket?
38:08Yes.
38:09It's 8 o'clock.
38:11You guys decide who's clearing the table.
38:13Clear!
38:14And who's loading the dishwasher.
38:15Washing.
38:16Pretty quick.
38:17Love you.
38:19Love you.
38:20Good job.
38:21The days and weeks ahead will have its challenges.
38:23There's no doubt, but we need this.
38:25Our kids need it.
38:26So here I am, back at the Bross family, ready to see exactly how they have done with their
38:39girls.
38:40What's been happening?
38:41We're slowly making progress.
38:42There's been progress in some areas, but there's still moments of trying times.
38:56Yeah, there is.
38:57You've got your hands full.
38:58You know, they're definitely, definitely pushing your boat when you're away.
39:03There's no two ways about that.
39:04Yeah.
39:05But let's just got to meet the girls anyway, because they must be able to hear me from
39:08here.
39:09I would like to talk to you both, because I want you to retract where I saw your mum
39:22having to pull you up the stairwell to get you into your bedroom, where then you were
39:28opening up the door and you were shouting out, you're not my mum.
39:31You were being really, really rude.
39:32You were really sassing to your mum, which just really isn't cutting it anymore.
39:38You know, because we've had this conversation.
39:40You keep throwing out when you're angry, you're not my mum, you're not my mum.
39:46This is your mum.
39:47You did.
39:48I watched it.
39:49Hmm.
39:52You do need to focus on your temper and your sassiness, because it's very ugly when you
39:59lose your temper and you get really disrespectful.
40:03When you consciously know that you've done something wrong, what happens is, is that I
40:08get this really cute little heart-baby-shaped face from you, and you give me a baby voice,
40:13which shows me that consciously you know what you're doing when you misbehave.
40:20And that cute little, my mum, I know indeed, that, yeah, is what melts your mum and dad's
40:28hearts, and I can see why.
40:30The truth is, is that we need to get behind this behaviour so that you can start to act a
40:34little bit more mature.
40:35You know, if you want to have a conversation, you've got to be able to turn around and do
40:39that in a respectful way.
40:41Because otherwise, you're only going to hurt yourself by losing your privileges.
40:51So, overall, what is it that switched the lightbulb on for the pair of you?
40:55A big part of it is the support we have for each other and how critical that is, and me
41:02knowing that I can rely on him to stand behind me.
41:07When you came in here, I was at a place where I knew that I was not, I was not being firm,
41:17I was not following through on what I said, and there were some key things that you said,
41:22even just upstairs, you know, that I am the mom in this house, and I don't need to prove
41:26that to anybody, and that I don't need to be in those power struggles with my kids over that.
41:32And I've allowed myself, because of the tenderness in my heart, to want to say,
41:38oh, but you know, I don't want my kids hurt, I don't want my kids to cry, I don't, you know,
41:42so that's always made me so wishy-washy.
41:45And I think you've guided me in a more clear perspective on how to achieve that.
41:52Plus, some of the key things, like, this is necessary to have a happy family.
41:58This is needed. Your kids need this, and you gotta understand, okay, that's right.
42:04We are the parent, and that is needed.
42:06Even though your kids cry and complain and all of that, I mean, that was a big part of me feeling like,
42:13yes, this is right.
42:15And bingo. The fact that you recognize that is what will continue to push you forward every day.
42:21That will drive you every day.
42:23Well, we're very fortunate to have you come in and help us bridge that gap.
42:27I'd love to be able to bring Elise down and say my goodbyes to the whole of you as a family.
42:34Can you come in here for a minute? Joe's getting ready to leave. We need to say goodbye.
42:37So make sure that you're listening to mama, right?
42:39Okay.
42:40Even when dad's away.
42:41Can I ask you before I leave to take a photo of yourselves as a family?
42:46Yeah.
42:47Yeah.
42:48Bye-bye.
42:49Bye.
42:50Thanks so much, Joe.
42:51You're welcome. Bye-bye. See you later, girls.
42:53I think the experience with Joe for me has been emotional.
42:56It's really, really strengthened my communication with our kids.
43:01Having three girls at this age is challenging, so this has brought a lot of clarity into how we can deal with that.
43:07I know that mum was having a really hard time wrapping her head around consequences.
43:11You know, to be able to just come forth and say, I think I was a little bit too empathetic and not authoritative where I needed to be when it came to rules and consequences, for me is the biggest reward you can get when you're working with parents.
43:24They get it. And that's what's incredibly hopeful about this family. They understand what they need to do. And overall, I just feel both Debbie and Larry have understood the importance of them united together, becoming a front where they're on the same page and the kids can't leverage in between them. And that makes for a healthy, functional family. Okay.
43:45Okay.
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