- 2 days ago
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00:00We always love the opportunity to sit with our good friend, Tim Kawakami, SF Standard.
00:05Hey, Tim, what's going on today?
00:07Not too much there. How are you guys doing?
00:08We're doing good. Hey, can we run a little theory by you?
00:12You know, your former colleague, Anthony Slater, had quite an article on Jonathan Kaminga yesterday
00:18after spending some time with him in Cleveland and really hearing kind of his side of where he wants things to go.
00:24Do you buy the idea that the fact that we're seeing that article,
00:27the fact that it came out yesterday kind of means that the first conversations between the Warriors and Kaminga haven't gone great?
00:36Yeah, I mean, I don't know if they haven't gone great, but I don't think it's a total misread of the situation.
00:42I think Kaminga's camp is definitely trying to get that out,
00:47that there's some differing things that maybe need to be ironed out should they even start talking long-term contract.
00:55But that's the – Dunleavy basically said that last week.
01:00Was it even earlier this week?
01:01I'm trying to get my day straight here that they really haven't had those conversations,
01:06you know, full-start conversations.
01:08But they can't – like, this is such a multiple-platform situation.
01:12Like, does he want to come back?
01:14What's the role?
01:15Does another team want to sign him?
01:17What are they going to offer him?
01:18And if they can't offer him the money outright because they're not that far under the cap,
01:22only one team is, it's Brooklyn.
01:24If it's not Brooklyn, then they'd have to talk, sign, and trade with the Giants with that number.
01:28You know, like, there's so many different things.
01:31I think it's fair conclusion to say that very little of it has been –
01:37at least if you're saying, yes, he's going to re-sign with the Warriors,
01:41what steps do you have to take?
01:43Yeah, very little of that has taken place.
01:45Now, it can happen fast.
01:48I don't think it's kind of in the realm of Klay Thompson where both sides kind of had a ready talk
01:53and Klay was ready to go.
01:56I don't think they're that far down, but they're not, you know,
01:59they're not negative ways down that road either.
02:03Like, this is how it kind of – you get put together a complicated situation.
02:09It's like you send out signals.
02:11You kind of have half-starts.
02:12You have half-conversations.
02:13And I think we all pretty much agree that the likelihood or maybe the most logical situation,
02:21if the Warriors can get something good back for them, is there for it to be a trade.
02:24But you have to kind of go down each one of these roads to really know where everyone is.
02:30And they're not down the road.
02:31So, yeah, I think sometimes I warn people, don't make too much of a leap in logic.
02:36I don't think I'm going to do that on this one for you or general pieces.
02:40It's not that things have been decided.
02:41It's that thing.
02:42Nothing has been decided.
02:43And usually at this point, if there's going to be a contract, it sounds different than this.
02:50But this thing has so many different parts to it that if they can't put together a fine trade,
02:55then he might come back to the Warriors, at least temporarily.
02:58Like, that's – you've got to put that in there too.
03:00And so, Don Kaminga on a long-term contract that everyone's happy forever and he's going to be the starting small team.
03:06Now, that is not going to happen, I wouldn't think.
03:09But there's seven other ways this could go.
03:13And two of them are he can look back to the Warriors at least for a little while.
03:16So, as we look to go down this road, as you're talking about, like, what are the next steps to go down this road?
03:22Because I think we have to wait until June 30th, right, before he can field other offers.
03:26So, are we just in a waiting period of them having three or four days to try to work this out?
03:32Yeah, I mean, you could still go into June 30th and July 1st and talk to other teams and still come back to the Warriors.
03:39Like, that's – like, it's not all done.
03:41This is not Clay Thompson.
03:42Like, it's not all going to be done.
03:44He's gone unless there's some great deal that's happening right now.
03:48But these conversations are happening informally anyway, even if they're not really supposed to.
03:52We know these things are discussed generally or obliquely or hypothetically before the chance to talk trade happens, you know, June 30th.
04:04This is all – so many things have to be decided.
04:08And other teams have to figure out what they can get, what they can't get.
04:11And is Kaminga at the top of that list?
04:13Is he second?
04:14Is he third?
04:14Are they going to do the other two things, try to do the other two things?
04:17And then they come back to the Warriors if they can't do those two things.
04:20So it's not that – it's not that far until June 30th is what I would say.
04:24Like, that's not that far.
04:25It's like we have to wait.
04:26It's not that much.
04:27Like, things are going to be figured out over the next three, four days and then maybe even later than that.
04:34And I think that's just the way this generally is.
04:37The Kaminga comments are part of the whole kaleidoscope.
04:42And he's kind of – yeah, that's – I don't think anybody's surprised that he's saying he wants to be an all-star whether it's here or elsewhere.
04:49I don't think anybody's surprised.
04:51You know, what Steve Kerr told me not too long ago that he couldn't imagine guaranteeing him a role because, you know, there's a lot of other things at play here.
04:59It's just different pieces are moving around.
05:02June 30th is not very far away.
05:05July 1st is not very far away.
05:06But I would say even then it might not get all the way put together right on July 1st, maybe a little bit after that.
05:14But these are the things that we've kind of been understanding and knowing about this.
05:19It's just so many different things have to be agreed to before this can get done.
05:25I would caution, like, it's not going to happen in a flash, probably, unless some team just says, that's the guy we want.
05:31Here's what we can offer.
05:32Here's how we make it work money-wise.
05:34Again, that's complicated, too, because the Warriors can only take back 50% of a new deal unless it's a really low deal.
05:39And why would he take it if it's a low deal?
05:42All that still has to be hashed out, probably not instantaneous on June 30th.
05:49Everyone's got different, you know, things that they want.
05:52And that sometimes isn't the easiest thing to put together, even when we're used to all these deals being put together fast.
05:59Tim Calcami, SF Standard, with us here at Willard & Dibbs, 95-7 the game.
06:02Tim, what I really start to wonder, because everyone has said Jonathan is the linchpin to whatever the Warriors can and will do next.
06:11If they do keep Jonathan, how do they tweak the roster and get better this offseason?
06:19They can't do too much.
06:21They would have the taxpayer mid-level, which is $5.7 million, which is not a lot.
06:25But I don't know that they're really, you know, going to be able to go much higher anyway, even on a commingado.
06:31Again, you know, even if he signs for $30 somewhere else, they can only take $15 back.
06:35They can only take $50 back.
06:37So it's not like they're shopping in the richest aisle.
06:39There is a way, through various other pieces, that they could go higher than that and money taken back if it involves commingado.
06:45But it takes a third team or fourth team.
06:47Really, really complicated.
06:48Again, that could be done, but it's hard to do.
06:51And it's not something that I don't think they're going to announce on June 30th or would be able to even complete on June 30th.
06:57Maybe they could.
06:58It's just very, very, very multi-layered.
07:00So, yeah, you're talking about or trading Moses Moody.
07:04Maybe fans don't want to hear that, but that's another thing they could do.
07:06Or trading Trace Jackson Davis.
07:09You know, those are the other things that they can do.
07:12They can trade future draft picks.
07:13But, again, to take salary back, you'd have to match it with your own salary.
07:16And the way the payroll is built, there's just not that many guys who have the right kind of salary numbers that you can get back to the kind of players who make an 18-20, which is, you know, those are usually the players that can help you out as a 6-7 man.
07:34It gets complicated.
07:35Yeah, there's not that many ways.
07:37Kaminga is the best way, but that brings its own complications.
07:40It's Kaminga and the future first-round picks, unless you want to put Moody in there, unless you want to put Pajemski in there.
07:46And I don't tend to think they don't want to.
07:49So, yeah, it's Kaminga, you know.
07:51And so, if they bring him back, and instead of, you know, it's probably not going to be a huge number, and they do it to either trade him possibly in February or even wait a year through it, that's probably going to be the biggest piece they have is bringing back Kaminga.
08:06And that's why this all gets really, really, you know, they have to judge what that means.
08:12They have to judge who that means.
08:15This is not something that's going to get, it's being decided.
08:18It's hard to decide that right now.
08:19They have to feel it out all different ways.
08:22And they could even go down a long row with Kaminga, say, this is what we want.
08:26This is, we love you.
08:27This is this.
08:27They still have to figure out, well, how much, what price is that?
08:30If they sign them to a $30 million a year deal themselves, that puts them not just in deep and low strikes, it puts them over the first apron.
08:37And it puts them in jeopardy of even going to second apron, which every team in the league is trying to get out of right now.
08:43So, I would just say the logic says he comes back.
08:48I mean, I'm sorry, the logic says that the best thing they can do is trade him.
08:52It's just that's the most complicated thing.
08:54So, be ready for a lot of uncertainty for at least three or four days.
09:00Yeah, I mean, June 30th is four days away, and we're all kind of sitting on eggshells waiting for that to come about.
09:06If they don't trade him before then, and if no other team makes an offer for him as a restricted, what options does he have?
09:15What options do they have as far as, you know, a sort of a minimum one-year contract that they could tender him?
09:22Yeah, $7.9 million is the qualifying offer.
09:25I imagine they're going to do that before June 29th, which is the deadline.
09:28They haven't done it yet as far as I know, but there's no way they're letting him go.
09:33If they don't make him that offer, if he comes to an unrestricted free agent, that's not going to happen.
09:37So, at some point, he could just take that.
09:39It's clearly not the money he wants.
09:41And then he becomes an unrestricted free agent next summer, no matter what.
09:45That is the power of that.
09:47He can control that part.
09:48He clearly does not want just a one-year $7.9 million.
09:51He wants a long-term deal right now, as we would all want.
09:55You know, don't risk another year.
09:57If he gets hurt, what if things go wrong?
09:59I think that is, you know, the middle ground on that is the Warriors offer more than that.
10:06But it's more to their, you know, they play the cards.
10:11Maybe a two-year deal with a team option.
10:14There's ways you could slide this around, but if he comes back to the Warriors, it is not likely to be for, like, four for 100.
10:23That's not what it's likely to be.
10:25It's much more likely to be two for 40 or, you know, three for 60 with an option in there.
10:32There's a lot of different people are going to yell at me about how it wouldn't be a team option.
10:36It's more likely it would be a player option.
10:38So, don't aggregate that.
10:39I know people can't wait to have you seen it, but you guys know how much I love that.
10:45Oh, yeah.
10:45It's your favorite, yeah.
10:47Yeah.
10:48It's just so many different little tripwires on this one.
10:53I just think Don Levy's comments earlier this week, and I'm sure comments tonight after the pick,
11:00and comments from Kaminga only illustrate it further.
11:03Again, I painted against the Clay situation, which was probably not a good situation, but that thing was clarified.
11:10Like, that thing, he was leaving.
11:11That was happening.
11:13Nothing more had to be hashed out.
11:15Just the deal, just the terms of the deal of when he was moving out.
11:19This is not quite there because there's just other things in play.
11:23He's not unrestricted.
11:25They don't, they're not able to get back to full value of his contract and his salary is coming back.
11:30They aren't sure what his market is right now.
11:35I think there's some teams that would take him, but then we got to figure, like, Miami, Slater reported,
11:40and others, like, so that's a team that could have some interest in him that didn't get Durant.
11:43You know, they could use a player like that, but then they can't take him and then only give back half his salary.
11:50They're over the cap.
11:51So, how do they, they would have to get a third team involved if it's a contract, like, in the $28, $25 million range.
11:58How do you do that?
11:59Who are they going to give up?
12:00I can't really see a ton of players on that roster.
12:02The Warriors want Jaime Hacquez would be the one.
12:05I don't think Miami would trade Jaime Hacquez for Jonathan.
12:08You just get into, that's the whole process you have to go through.
12:13And then the third team, the third team's going to want something.
12:15Will the Warriors throw something in and incentivize it?
12:17Will Miami throw something in and incentivize it?
12:19There's just so many little things you have to check off that I don't know that, like, you can do it all at once.
12:26It can be really fast.
12:27It tends, to me, just talking through this, that these things are going to, it's going to take longer than just one day to figure it out.
12:35And then I don't even know if they've got one of the boxes checked yet.
12:38There's just so many different representatives, so many different agendas, so many different, you know, wants and needs through all these different things that, again, the best thing for the Warriors is to trade him.
12:51I would say that.
12:52You can aggregate me on that one.
12:53Yep.
12:53But that doesn't mean it's going to happen.
12:55The best thing for them is that the other teams and John Kaminga don't need to worry about what's the best thing for the Warriors.
13:00They need to worry about what's the best thing for themselves.
13:02T.K., kind of a broader view, Warrior question, which is this, like, we know what their philosophy has been the last couple of seasons, right?
13:12Maximize the remainder of Steph Curry's window.
13:15And I'm confident that that's largely unchanged, but is there any new hesitation around their philosophy based on the way the playoffs ended, knowing that, you know, older guys, they get hurt at the end of the season?
13:30Yeah, but younger guys can get hurt, too, right?
13:33We've seen some younger guys get hurt, so I know, I hear what you're saying.
13:37I would just say it's not ever 100% one thing and 0% everything else.
13:43Maybe it's 90% you're going for the Steph Curry era, and I understand, and I would support that for them.
13:50Like, you're never going to have another Steph Curry.
13:53You actually were doing very well in the playoffs when he was healthy.
13:56He obviously got hurt, and things changed, but that happened.
14:00So, you know, Indiana going all the way with Halliburton, he gets hurt in Game 7, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't continue down that path.
14:08I just think that they're never going to have a better chance than this.
14:12They don't want to say it like that.
14:14They want to keep believing they're going to have a chance forever, but Steph Curry is never going to be another Steph Curry.
14:20And putting most of your eggs, or 99% of them, in the next few years, it's hard for me to argue with that.
14:30There is some responsibility that Dunleavy has, or Joe Leggett has, or whoever else, that they make sure that, you know, when this era is over, they're not terrible.
14:38And they've said that, and fans have gotten really mad about that.
14:41Okay, I get it, but you do have to, you can't just start trading every single first-round pick just to make sure you have a sixth man who may or may not be that good.
14:50They're not going to do that, but they're going, you know, the Jimmy Butler trade was a lot of, it was pushing them some things.
14:56Not everything, as they emphasize, but a lot of things.
15:00Could they do something like that again?
15:01Yeah, they got first-round picks to trade, but I don't see them trading for a 35-year-old again.
15:07Jimmy Butler was the one.
15:08And I think any search, you know, beyond this, if they're giving up future assets, big future assets, would probably involve somebody whose age is in the twos, not in the threes.
15:20But who knows?
15:21Case by case, they have kind of, you know, clarified the payroll situation.
15:27Steph has said it.
15:28Draymond has said it.
15:29Steph, Draymond, and Butler are all fine for two more years.
15:32And you can make some clear decisions on that.
15:35Maybe Steph's so great that you're going to give them another two years after that.
15:39That's fine, but they don't have to make that decision for two years, and then we'll see where Draymond is, we'll see what Butler is, see where Steve Kerr is.
15:47And I think that's how they're kind of playing it.
15:50The stage is two more years.
15:54You don't push everything in on it, but you push what you can.
15:57One, you feel good about how they were playing in the playoffs.
16:00You understand that players get hurt, especially when they're older.
16:03But you also don't say, well, Steph got hurt.
16:05That proves that he's going to get hurt every postseason.
16:07I don't think you can say that.
16:09I don't think you say that about Butler.
16:10I don't think you say that about Draymond.
16:12It's higher likelihood, yes, but players get hurt.
16:16Like, this is, it just happens to everybody at some point.
16:19And I think they feel good about a chance to make some noise next year, and maybe they're wrong.
16:26I think they're sort of right, at least a chance of it.
16:30And, you know, they hope their younger players bloom and maybe add one or two this year.
16:36We'll see.
16:38But I don't know.
16:39I don't know what blowing up would do.
16:41What would that do?
16:42It would be worse, a lot worse now.
16:45And then in three years, when you're ready to come up again, guess what?
16:48The Oklahoma City Thunder would still be good.
16:50And what I've said is, you have a better chance right now with Steph Curry,
16:54Grandma Green, and Jimmy Butler next season against the Thunder than you would
16:58if you blow it up in three years and then try to do it again in three years
17:01against the Oklahoma City Thunder.
17:02I might as well take a chance with Steph Curry while I got him.
17:05I completely understand that.
17:08If that starts to change when the Curry era isn't competitive,
17:12you can't have a hope of it.
17:14I totally understand trying to redo some things.
17:17I don't see it happening right now.
17:19Yeah, and from my research, Tim, it's more like six years between the blow it up
17:24and a chance to actually get back to being decent.
17:27And you could look at San Antonio and OKC's examples where they had to go through that period.
17:32Outside of the Kaminga question, what else are they going to do with players like GP2 and Kavon?
17:39Do you see them coming back at reduced salaries and reduced roles just because they have their bird rights?
17:46No, the bird rights means you could give them more.
17:49So to give them less wouldn't, you know, like they could do that.
17:53You know, you can always bring a player back for less.
17:56Looney, I could see, you know, Steve Kerr loves having them on the roster.
18:00Well, he loves having GP2 also, but GP2 just gets hurt so much.
18:03I don't know if you want to use up a roster spot on that.
18:07He's not a younger player, and I'm tough on him, and I understand that he's really valuable.
18:11He played some really valuable minutes in the playoffs.
18:14He always is a great guy in the locker room.
18:16But, man, you're soaking up.
18:17Any dollar you soak up on him is costing you, you know, in a luxury tax, is costing you a roster spot.
18:23That's a tough one.
18:25Looney has hit the market multiple times, and you've always wondered if he's just going to find somebody to give him more money, and he never does.
18:33You find sometimes, you know, he even jokes about it.
18:36I could see them bringing him back on a much, you know, not a much lower, but on a lower salary.
18:41You always need another big body.
18:43I don't know that they're going to acquire a center.
18:46Maybe they will.
18:48They're always open to it, I'm sure.
18:50But, like, if you go, if you think Quinton Post is somebody that could be a starting center, I think they sort of think that.
18:56They're, you know, waiting on some more development.
18:58You got Draymond.
18:59You got Trace.
19:00You got Kevon Looney as that force.
19:02I don't think they mind that at all.
19:04Obviously, we know how important he is in the locker room.
19:06We know how much Steph and Draymond love him and Steve Kerr and everyone else.
19:12So that one I could definitely see.
19:14GP, if he's willing to come back at a much lower number, maybe.
19:17But, again, that's a lot of dollars, even if it's $4 million, to someone that you don't know if he's going to be healthy.
19:24And, I mean, if there's one thing we know about GP2, he's not going to be healthy for a year.
19:28You just know it.
19:29And that's not great for him, but it's just the way it's gone.
19:34And, you know, the track record is there.
19:37So I'm not sure.
19:38They do need to reduce this number to try to get some flexibility.
19:42I don't know if that GP2 is going to be the one who gets the dollars that they kind of need to reserve for some other things.
19:51Tim Calakami, SF Standard.
19:52Hey, Tim, before you run, is tonight, in your mind, definitely a stick and pick?
19:59Or is there any chance that some other wrinkle comes into play?
20:03Well, there's a chance anything happens at any time.
20:05You know I had to say that.
20:06But I think likely at 40, I mean, there isn't a lot of movement there.
20:12I know there's been some movement already, teams moving around.
20:15I think they're kind of happy at 41.
20:17They did get that pick back in the Butler trade after giving up their first.
20:20I think very likely they stay at 41.
20:22They're not in the buying mood of pick-seed-ticks.
20:25If you put cash in the deals now, you get frozen.
20:27You've got to be under the first apron.
20:29And I don't think they can do that.
20:31They can assure that.
20:32So, likeliest, if they stay at 41, you know, they're not going to be drafting a star there,
20:39probably not even drafting a likely starter.
20:41But somebody who, in a year or two, can be given minutes, I think they'd be happy with a quit-and-post duplication
20:47of someone, you know, not a center, but someone who can do what quit-and-post, you know,
20:53provide some of the things, you know, play some minutes forward.
20:57I think they wouldn't be at all upset about that.
21:01It's a very cheap salary.
21:02I think that really helps them.
21:04They're trying to narrow down this price.
21:06You know, they're in the tax, you get repeater tax, you know, the multipliers of that.
21:10So, I think they'll stay at 41.
21:11It's a good player to have if you, you know, and Dunley, we've shown he's pretty good at those second-round picks, right?
21:17I mean, he's got a couple of them on this roster that have built themselves into rotation players.
21:23So, I wouldn't think they're going to move around 41.
21:27I think they'll stay, make a pick, and then the real stuff begins tonight and the next few days, as we've been talking about.
21:36All right, TK.
21:37I'm going to aggregate that, by the way.
21:39I'm tweeting it right now.
21:40I know someone is.
21:41Tim Calacone.
21:41That one, I'm happy with aggregating that.
21:43That one, actually, aggregate that second-round pick thing.
21:46He says anything could happen.
21:48I'm going to tweet that everywhere.
21:50It's going to go crazy.
21:50Anything could happen at any time.
21:54That's one thing I believe in.
21:58Tim, thanks, man.
21:59Great to have you, as always.
22:01You got it, guys.
22:01Anytime.
22:02Thanks, Tim.
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