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KGMZ-FM / 95.7 THE GAME
  • 2 days ago
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00:00Bay Area, this is Jonathan Kuminga.
00:02You're listening to Wheeler and Debs on 95.7 The Game.
00:08All right.
00:09That's Jonathan Kuminga.
00:12And he is just like every other young athlete I've ever seen in my entire life.
00:21They all want the same thing.
00:23And I don't begrudge him for it at all.
00:26So just to let you all know right off the top,
00:30and you guys jump in if I'm leaving anything out
00:33because we're not going to sit here and read an article to you on the radio,
00:38but Anthony Slater of The Athletic went out to Cleveland
00:42and spent time with Jonathan Kuminga.
00:45And I thought that this was beautifully done
00:48because it's not in a setting where you're at a podium.
00:52It's not even in a locker room.
00:53He went to Jonathan on Jonathan's time in Jonathan's space
00:58in the middle of all of his off-season workouts.
01:02And he spent time with him to understand where his head's at.
01:05And I think he got, quite frankly, some of the best quotes
01:08that anyone's ever gotten from Jonathan.
01:11And here's the summary.
01:13Jonathan wants to be a star.
01:15Jonathan wants to be a one.
01:17Jonathan wants to be an all-star.
01:19Jonathan wants to be the dude with an organization.
01:22Are there financial implications that come with that?
01:26I'm sure that's a driving force.
01:28But that's what Jonathan wants.
01:31And Jonathan has said it in black and white.
01:34If it's with the Warriors, great.
01:37If it's not, great.
01:40Don't care where it is.
01:43But that's what I want.
01:45And for me, to quote the great Jay-Z,
01:49thank God for granting me this moment of clarity.
01:52This is all I've been waiting for.
01:56There's your clarity.
01:58It's time to let him go.
02:01This is not the same discussion we've had in the past.
02:05This isn't about whether he fits.
02:08This isn't about whether you think he's going to be an all-star someday
02:11or whether you don't, and for goodness sakes, this isn't about Steph Curry
02:15because Steph Curry is Steph Curry, and if you can't understand that
02:19and the gravity that that holds under an organization, I can't help you.
02:24Steph is Steph, period.
02:26That's it.
02:27And that will never change until Steph is no longer playing.
02:31And, yes, the Warriors will do right by Steph.
02:35But Jonathan is finally coming out and expressing exactly what he wants.
02:40He's not even just saying, hey, give me a chance to play a little bit more.
02:44He's saying, I want an organization.
02:47I want to be somewhere where that is at least a possibility.
02:51Let me go see if I can try.
02:54That's all I need to know.
02:56And I'm a firm believer of this.
02:57I've had this happen in my career.
02:59If you're at a spot as an employee where you don't want to be there anymore,
03:02whether you're on your contract or not,
03:04I'm a big fan of the organization doing everything in their power
03:07to get that person the hell out of there.
03:09It is time to let Jonathan.
03:11You just said that.
03:12It's time to let him go.
03:13Everything in their power.
03:15And that becomes interesting because you don't want to just take a bad deal
03:20because you want Jonathan Kaminga to have his outright freedom.
03:25You'd love to work out on both sides.
03:27And where you sit now with this article coming out,
03:30and if Jonathan Kaminga is this devoted to going out and being a one somewhere else,
03:35and I don't know if it's untenable for him to return,
03:38but it seems like he's champing at the bit to get his chance this summer
03:42and go out and do it.
03:43Well, you're in a bit of a tight spot because the sign-and-trade rules make it
03:47so you're not going to be able to get dollar for dollar on what his value would be.
03:51And even if his value is $30 million a year,
03:54which he reportedly was offered that last offseason, five years, $150 million,
03:59he turned it down.
04:00I don't think that there's an offer bigger than that out there,
04:02and that offer might not be out there either.
04:04So how do the Warriors do right by Jonathan
04:08while also doing right by themselves and the Steph Curry window?
04:12Completely fair question, and the only answer I'll give,
04:15which is an uneducated one, I will admit,
04:17but I believe that where there's a will, there's a way.
04:20That's what I believe.
04:22The NBA right now is filled with teams that are looking to tweak this
04:27and get off of that number and maneuver this.
04:30I mean, there's trades flying everywhere, and for every trade there are 10 more rumors.
04:36So I feel like there are a lot of teams right now that want to get on the phone
04:40and they want to maneuver, and if they want to maneuver, it means two things.
04:45It means they want to lower the money on their books and or they want to get younger.
04:49And Jonathan Kaminga could represent both of those things.
04:53For somebody, it probably needs to be a three-way deal
04:56because of the rule of if there's a sign-in trade, you can only take back 50% on the dollar.
05:02So if Jonathan were to sign for $25 million a year,
05:05the Warriors can only directly take back $12.5 million in that deal.
05:10But if you start piling different players together in multiple teams,
05:14that sort of mitigates that or at least can a little bit,
05:18and I am going to move forward with the belief that where there's a will, there is a way.
05:24I hate this to a certain degree.
05:27Jonathan may well become what many Warrior fans are sort of worried he may become.
05:34But for me, the bottom line is this.
05:36Jonathan has now expressed the job he wants.
05:39That job's not available here.
05:41Let him go.
05:42You have got to go.
05:43So it will not work to re-sign him and make him keep looking for this job and this opportunity
05:54for at least two more seasons while Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler are here.
05:59And whether you think that's organizational malpractice or leaning into old players,
06:05whatever you think, I get it.
06:07Steph Curry's presence is what it is.
06:09It's larger than life.
06:10And so there's really no moving that boulder.
06:13If you ask me, you've got to get him out of here.
06:16It depends on if you can move the other boulder, which is, you know, Kaminga and what he desires.
06:23And I'm just reading from Slater.
06:24He says his first crack at free agency is about finding the contract he desires,
06:28but also seeking what he wants, not necessarily conforming into what this version of the Warriors needs.
06:34There you go.
06:35And so that, for me, is the big takeaway where it's been four years,
06:39and he's tried to conform to what the Warriors need.
06:42And he also now is in a spot where he can go out and get that contract.
06:46And I wonder if the Warriors aren't kicking themselves a little bit about, you know,
06:51not doing what they could to get that deal signed last offseason, because now it wouldn't be a sign-and-trade.
06:58You could trade him, even if you paid him $25 million last offseason, you could trade that $25 and get $25 back.
07:04But now the Warriors are in between a rock and a hard place if, in fact, they realize that they have to move off the player.
07:12I totally get it.
07:13I just think that that is a game of chicken that the Warriors should try to avoid if they can.
07:18They may not be able to avoid it.
07:20You're right.
07:21But at the same time, that is a minefield, if you ask me.
07:25The idea of keeping him all the while, everybody knows that they're not on the same page.
07:31But then again, you want to trade him later, so you need to maximize his value.
07:36In order to maximize his value, you're going to have to play him a lot.
07:39His numbers are going to need to be high.
07:41But then if his numbers are high, that means you're playing him a lot, and he's ball-dominant.
07:47And so what does that mean for players like Steph and Jimmy?
07:49And are you winning games or losing games while that's happening?
07:52It just feels like a minefield because every, like, this is, I mean, the simplest idea of team, right?
08:01We all have to be on the same page.
08:04We all have to want the same things.
08:07They don't.
08:09That's it.
08:10That's what I read.
08:11They don't want the same things.
08:13Jonathan wants to be a star.
08:15The Warriors want a three-slash-four who wants them to win.
08:20Those are not the same things.
08:22You're not on the same page.
08:23You can't be here anymore.
08:25I shouldn't say that.
08:26You shouldn't be.
08:27For you.
08:28You shouldn't be here anymore.
08:30He doesn't want to be.
08:31And the quote is, things take time, but I feel like I'm at the point where that has to be my priority
08:35to just be one of the guys a team relies on.
08:38Aiming to be an all-star multiple times, aiming to be great.
08:42If he comes back here and he plays the best that he can play and he fits in with the team
08:48and all the rest of it, he still probably won't be an all-star unless this team goes bananas
08:53and you get two and three all-stars because you're going to be the third-best offensive player
08:58most likely at best and the fourth-best overall player.
09:01So if these are truly his goals, and I don't begrudge him for that.
09:06Not at all.
09:06He's a young player.
09:07He's going to be 23 when the season starts, and he feels like he's put in his four years,
09:12and if this is what he really wants, then I'm with you.
09:15The Warriors need to do everything they can do, not only accommodate him, but accommodate themselves
09:21because if this player has these goals on your team, it's probably not going to be a great fit.
09:26Yeah, I do not begrudge him at all.
09:30First of all, Jonathan Kaminga last year, through circumstances where most athletes I know would have blown their top,
09:37he absolutely kept it together.
09:39He deserves a ton of credit.
09:41And for anybody who looks at this story and says, wow, Jonathan is all, like, this feels selfish.
09:49Like, you want to be a star?
09:50How about win?
09:52Look, I don't think you get to do that to a 22-year-old player who's making $7 million in a league
09:58where he feels he has the talent to play with people who are making north of $40 million a year.
10:04I don't know if he is that, but he thinks he's that.
10:07And I don't know many human beings who, in that situation, wouldn't want to go try.
10:14Like, it's not fair for us to be like, no, no sweet flower.
10:19Make $12 million a year because you're on a good team.
10:22And there's a 37-year-old who's great, and he'll be gone in two years, but you need to be like him.
10:28You need to make it about him.
10:30When you're like, no, you don't have those three years to sit there and wait, and then maybe, who knows what the hell's going to happen around that corner.
10:38It's not fair to do that to a player and to call him selfish for these thoughts.
10:44I just don't buy that at all.
10:45It's his career.
10:46Correct.
10:47Ultimately, it's his career.
10:48And if you want to go out and try to be a one for a team and be the guy that everyone relies on, and maybe you end up making an all-star team, maybe you don't.
10:58But that's your prerogative, ultimately.
11:00And even if he doesn't get a contract offer from another team, and the Warriors can give him a qualifying offer, and he can play on that qualifying offer for a year, and then he becomes unrestricted at the end of next season.
11:12So there are ways that this can go different directions, but I'm kind of with you on the ideal scenario for the Warriors would be you find a place for him this offseason, you get something back in return, something that fits better now, and you just worry about the later down the road.
11:30And I can't help but think about the Jermaine O'Neal case with Portland, because it was four years with Portland.
11:36All four years, they made the playoffs.
11:38Two of those years, they went to the Western Conference Finals.
11:40Jermaine O'Neal did not really play much at all, and then at the end of those four years, they traded him to Indy.
11:47Two years later, he's an all-star.
11:49And so, you know, Jermaine O'Neal started when he was 18.
11:5218 years and two months old.
11:54Kaminga was 19, so the similarity for me is striking, because now you're in a spot where Kaminga's going to probably have to go to a second team, or in the case of Chauncey Billups, it was his fifth team where he finally made the all-star team.
12:09And so, it doesn't mean that it's now or never for Kaminga.
12:13Everyone's road to the all-star game is different.
12:16Of course.
12:17It's fascinating to see some of these.
12:18It really is, and so now you're sitting here in a situation, and I totally get this thought, but I've always wondered what it was people actually want the Warriors to do about it.
12:30For example, 925 just texted in.
12:33Let's spend a moment with this, and then we're going to go to the phones.
12:36Holy smokes, the Warriors are really going to burn this organization to the ground for Curry and Draymond.
12:43Look, if that's your opinion, I get it.
12:45I really do.
12:47There's a way of looking at that where you might end up being right.
12:51You know, you just said it.
12:52You worry about the Jermaine O'Neal thing.
12:54You worry about Kaminga becoming a star in a different uniform.
12:58Damn it, it might happen.
12:59And I just tell Warrior fans, I think you've got to be okay with it.
13:03You just have to be.
13:04And if you think that that means they're burning the organization to the ground for Curry, that's fine.
13:10That means that your mind has already moved on to two years from now, and I get it.
13:14I get it.
13:15But theirs hasn't.
13:16Mine hasn't.
13:17And I get that, too.
13:19This is one of those things where I really can see both sides.
13:23I very much side with one of the sides, but I can see both sides.
13:27Like, I wonder if the Warriors were actually aggressively about to get into the youth,
13:34which a lot of their fans want them to do.
13:36Let's say they did that and they actually said it out loud.
13:39All right.
13:40First thing we're doing, we're signing Kaminga to a five-year deal at about $30 million a year.
13:47$35 million a year.
13:49We're signing Kaminga.
13:50And, oh, by the way, Kerr's going to start coming on Willie and Dibby every week,
13:55and he's going to be like, it's going to be different this year.
13:57We're leaning into Jonathan Kaminga because we think that he can be the next one.
14:02And he's a ball-dominant player, and we really want to start shaping the offense partially around him.
14:08All right, Warrior fan, what do you do three months later when Steph Curry, behind the scenes, says,
14:15get me out of here?
14:16Because I still care about my future, and I still think I can be the one on a championship squad.
14:24And you are now currently not doing that for me, and I thought that's what we all said we were going to do together.
14:30So send me to New York or something along those lines.
14:36I know that there are some Warrior fans that are like, fine, he's 37.
14:40Evan, I think you're the minority, and I think that you're downplaying all the things that Steph Curry is beyond basketball.
14:49It's the greatest thing that's ever happened to this organization.
14:52Right.
14:52And honestly, that ship has sailed.
14:55And Stiney laid it out earlier, and I was listening, and I was agreeing to the extent that,
15:00and Evan even used the phrase that was never uttered by the Warriors two timelines,
15:03but it's a good way to describe what it felt like the roster construction was doing.
15:08And if you would have stuck to that, and you would have ridden through the lows and the lower lows of James Wiseman,
15:15and you would have held on to Jordan Poole because he's got the ha-ha, and he can score,
15:21and you believed in Jordan Poole, well then you could look at Kaminga and say the same thing.
15:25And so in two years, you'd have Kaminga after six years,
15:28you'd have Poole after seven, and Wiseman the same, and you'd have a real, not an elite core,
15:34but you'd have a homegrown group of guys that you drafted, you believed in,
15:38and then you could kind of build around them with veterans, and you could be what you were going to be.
15:44But once you got rid of Wiseman, once you got rid of Poole,
15:47and you started to really strip away the youth from this team in the interest of right now,
15:53well now you're just left with Kaminga and Pods and, hi this is Guy Santos.
15:57Yeah, I see that one a little bit differently because I get what people are saying,
16:01but I think that when you bring up the Wiseman name, you're just attaching his draft status to him.
16:06There's been zero evidence that James Wiseman matters to a basketball team.
16:10It's still early, still very early.
16:12Still very early, and now he's been through a major injury, I hear you,
16:15but there's been zero evidence to this point.
16:17And I would argue that another organization got a heaping ton of Jordan Poole,
16:22and they decided yesterday that a $30 million salary slot was more valuable to them than Jordan Poole.
16:30I think that those two players have now gone elsewhere and shown that the Warriors were right to move on from them.
16:37Well, then they were wrong to draft him.
16:39Well, no, but that's not the way the draft works.
16:41Well, you're picking number two.
16:43No, but with Jordan Poole, they got a lot out of him.
16:46I would argue they got everything that this organization could get out of him.
16:50Now, would it have been different if he wasn't punched?
16:52I really don't know.
16:54But the bottom line is they got him to contribute to a championship squad,
16:58but then he got a big bag, and then he started to do the same thing that Jonathan is starting to do,
17:04which is he wanted more.
17:05He wanted that team.
17:07He wanted that role.
17:09And at that moment, that's when people started to bristle,
17:13and they got mad at each other behind the scenes,
17:15and it led to something awful, but it also led to the Warriors going,
17:19you know what, we need to go a different direction here.
17:22And that's what I worry about.
17:25You may worry about Kaminga becoming great somewhere else.
17:28I worry about what he becomes if he stays.
17:30Because they're not on the same page,
17:34and you're heading down a road where people's heads are going to butt way, way too hard, in my opinion.
17:40Well, they clearly already have butted to the extent that he got DNPs down the stretch,
17:45and he got DNPs in the playoffs, so I don't know if that's heads butting,
17:50but it's clearly a coaching staff looking at a player and saying,
17:53we think we can do better with you not playing at all in this basketball game.
17:57And so, if that's butting heads, whatever you want to call that,
18:01that is a coach and a staff saying to a player,
18:04nah, we're not going to play you in these very important games against a young athletic team.
18:10You're our young athlete, and we're still not going to play you?
18:13So, that's why I don't fault Kaminga for feeling this way.
18:16I don't fault him at all.
18:17You just went through a fourth year in a playoff run where you didn't get to play,
18:21and then they were forced to play you, and you went off.
18:24Three games, big games, all losses,
18:27but you at least showed yourself the kind of player you could be in that spot.
18:31888-957-9570.
18:33Dalton Johnson in a few minutes from New York.
18:35Let's go to Jonathan in the city.
18:37Hi, Jonathan.
18:37What's up?
18:39Hey, good afternoon, guys.
18:41I just want to say, man, Moses agrees with you, Mark, not Moody,
18:45the biblical Moses.
18:46Let Kaminga go.
18:48I think the Warriors just need to be professional about it
18:53and give him that runway.
18:55Let him be that big bird, that emo in the commercial.
18:58Hey, you're never going to be anything.
19:00Three days later, the emo's in the commercial.
19:03So, let him have that chance just so he can somehow work and realize his dream.
19:09And before I go, happy NBA Draft Day, guys.
19:14I got a little bit of hypothetical.
19:15And what if Nico Harrison calls up Mike and Joe Lacob and Sons and says,
19:23why don't you allow me the pleasure of reuniting the Splash Brothers on court
19:30wearing the same uniform?
19:32I'm going to send you Kyrie.
19:35And this year's first overall pick plus three more after that,
19:40just go ahead and send me that guy, Wardell Step and Carry.
19:44What say you, Dave?
19:45Oh, man.
19:46Here's what I say, Jonathan.
19:48I'm out.
19:48Yeah, well.
19:49Carry's out for the year.
19:51Right.
19:51And he's got two more years or three more years on top of that.
19:54He just signed a new three-year deal.
19:55Right.
19:56On top of this upcoming year, I thought.
19:57Well, no.
19:58It's one plus two.
19:59Okay, good.
19:59They declined an option and did a new one.
20:01But Cooper Flag plus three more first-round picks?
20:03Oh, God.
20:03No.
20:03Like, the Warriors actually would do that.
20:05The Mavericks never would.
20:07And the Mavericks fans would actually, like.
20:11Rewire it?
20:11They would re-riot.
20:12They would totally re-riot if the Mavericks did that.
20:16That's way too much of a haul for a 37-year-old player,
20:19no matter who he is.
20:21I know what we think of Steph,
20:22but that mythical deal would be a robbery.
20:28Yeah.
20:28That would be a robbery.
20:29Highway robbery.
20:32How about Austin in the city?
20:33Hey, Austin, what's up?
20:34Hey, nothing much to see me listening to you.
20:37You took right what I wanted to say about Jordan Poole,
20:41but what I'm trying to say is, too, about Kaminga.
20:44It ain't about letting Kaminga go.
20:46It's about the O here.
20:47It's letting go of their ego
20:48and handing the keys over a little bit.
20:51We already had Jordan Poole for Curry's backup.
20:56You know, they didn't like that
20:57because he was taking some of the shine for Curry.
21:00So they had, you know, Jeremiah Green punched him out.
21:03We already had help after three with Wiggins,
21:06and now Wiggins got drifted off.
21:08Now it's Kaminga's turn.
21:10What'd they do?
21:11They go in here and go get Jimmy Butler.
21:12Now he gets pushed down the line.
21:14What about Draymond Green?
21:16Why he never had help?
21:18Why he never had help?
21:20But Curry did, and now Draymond Green did.
21:24Didn't have the help, but now it was supposed to,
21:27the keys were supposed to go to Kaminga.
21:30It's supposed to be his team right now.
21:31These old heads need to take a seat,
21:33and if the old heads think they still can play,
21:35won't they get a team together with LeBron, Curry,
21:40and all the rest of the old heads together,
21:42get their own team,
21:43and let them win their last two rings or whatnot,
21:46and hand the keys over to these youngsters.
21:48Yeah, Austin, I hear you, and I get it.
21:51And I appreciate the use of old heads.
21:53It's one of my favorites.
21:53Yeah, like get out of the way and share it.
21:55Like, just my read,
21:57I get why it feels that way to a lot of people.
21:59I don't think Curry and Draymond and the Warrior old heads,
22:03if you will, are selfish.
22:05I don't think it's that they don't want to share the spotlight.
22:08I think that they stubbornly believe that they know how to win championships.
22:13And then they try to share that with younger players,
22:17and some of those younger players acquiesce
22:20and do exactly what is being asked, and some don't.
22:23And sometimes they have good reason for not,
22:27like Jonathan Kaminga,
22:29who believes that that would stifle his career,
22:31which is why I believe they need to part ways.
22:34And I'm waiting for the example of a youngster
22:37being a one to lead his team to an NBA championship,
22:41because I'm not sure if it's ever happened.
22:42No, this wouldn't, like, they wouldn't be contenders right away.
22:46This would be about the belief
22:47that this could be something in another three or four years.