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00:00But I think one of the more fascinating pieces
00:02of Jonathan Kaminga right now
00:04has nothing to do with where this story has been
00:06and Steve Kerr hates young people
00:08and Sham Sharani and all the things that we write.
00:11We've all been through the journey together.
00:13One of the fascinating things is
00:15we're about to find out what the rest of the league thinks.
00:18We've never known that before.
00:21I have no idea what the rest of the league thinks.
00:24You know what I mean?
00:25And you could listen to Warrior fans
00:27and depending on which one you pick,
00:30and which one you listen to,
00:31you could believe that someone is hiding around the corner
00:34with a $40 million per year offer
00:36and then you could also believe a different Warrior fan
00:39that says nobody will pay one quarter.
00:41They will not make a phone call.
00:43They will not make a phone call
00:45about Jonathan Kaminga.
00:47He's worthless.
00:48Pretty fascinating.
00:49I mean, that's the gap.
00:51Completely.
00:52He's worthless too.
00:54You need to give him $200 million for five years
00:56because he's the future.
00:58He's him.
00:58Some people have opinions in between,
01:01but the majority of people are in one of the two camps of
01:05he's amazing, you can't afford to let him go,
01:08or he just doesn't get it and he doesn't fit with his team.
01:11So I do kind of like the way you're phrasing it
01:14where you're going to find out from the rest of the league
01:17what they think about him,
01:19and it's not a completely fair metric
01:22because of the fact that so many teams don't have money.
01:24And as we're looking at the landscape of the association,
01:28so many teams are doing what we're seeing New Orleans and Washington do,
01:31which is, you know, I want an expiring.
01:34I want to get out of some of this money,
01:35and we need to save and avoid the second apron
01:38and all that other nonsense.
01:39So it's not a true measurement for Kaminga
01:42because there isn't that much money that's out there.
01:44It's not comprehensive, but it's something like I took from Ramona Shelburne
01:48in the conversation we had with her yesterday
01:50where she said there's like three teams interested.
01:54I'm like, oh.
01:55I think three or four she said, but yeah.
01:57Okay.
01:58Three or four, huh?
01:59Right.
02:00Yeah, three or four.
02:01I mean, 22-year-old on probably in a spot
02:06where you could get him for less than half of the max,
02:10and three or four teams are interested.
02:12Oh, that's not none.
02:15Right.
02:15But it's not 12.
02:18I find that interesting.
02:19Again, I just, you're right.
02:21It's not comprehensive,
02:22but I like to put all of these things together.
02:25Like, there's a lot of these examples,
02:28even in our own city.
02:31Like, every time we get to free agency.
02:35Who was my man?
02:36Oh, Aaron Banks.
02:38That one was weird.
02:39Like, that one, what did he get from the Packers?
02:43Like, 70-some-odd million dollars?
02:44Yeah, he had a lot.
02:45It's like, okay, the league was on one this year.
02:48Four years, 77 million.
02:50Okay, the league was on one this year
02:51about offensive linemen.
02:53And I thought that was an overpay for Aaron Banks,
02:57but that's what the market brought him.
02:58Yep.
02:59I've tried to make this point about Kyle Shanahan,
03:02quite frankly, and Steve Kerr for years.
03:04What about Jalen Moore?
03:05Backup lineman for the Niners.
03:07There you go.
03:08Got two years, 30 million from the Chiefs.
03:10The Chiefs would like him to maybe be their left tackle.
03:13Blindside protector of Patrick Mahomes.
03:15Right, of Patrick Mahomes.
03:16Exactly.
03:17This stuff happens all the time.
03:18And the two head coaches,
03:20who get a whole lot of hand-wringing here in the Bay Area,
03:22and I get that because our emotions are involved.
03:25These are our favorite teams.
03:26But, like, I would love everyone to understand
03:30the space between the opinions of Bay Area sports fan
03:35on Steve Kerr and Kyle Shanahan
03:37versus the way the league looks at those two men is large.
03:42Depends on which fan, but you're right.
03:43That is a big gap.
03:45Well, if you look at the league
03:47and any of these anonymous polls
03:49and you want to talk about who's the best NFL coach
03:52or who do you most want to play for,
03:53he's in the top five every time.
03:55And same thing with Steve Kerr.
03:56So fans can have their opinion,
03:59which makes all of this so great,
04:00and it's fun to be a fan and all the rest of it.
04:03But the one guy's won four titles,
04:05and the other guy seems to be right in the mix
04:07a lot of the time, two Super Bowl appearances as well.
04:10So, you know, the league will tell you
04:12if the Niners decided at the end of this upcoming year,
04:16if they do go 6-11 like Stiney says,
04:18and the Niners decide that they're going to part ways
04:21with Kyle Shanahan,
04:22he gets a job within probably 24 hours.
04:25Yeah.
04:26As a coordinator, maybe as a head coach,
04:28depending on the timing of it,
04:30Kyle Shanahan gets snapped up immediately.
04:33Same thing with Steve Kerr if he wants to keep doing it.
04:35When Steph and Draymond and Jimmy are done,
04:38and Steve Kerr ostensibly would be done,
04:40if he wants to go coach somewhere,
04:42he's going to get a job.
04:43I thought that we saw one last week that actually,
04:46now this is an example where it matches.
04:49It matches.
04:50You never know what a Major League Baseball team
04:53actually thinks of one of their prospects.
04:57You never know.
04:58Right?
04:58MLB.com can do their list.
05:00Baseball America can do their list.
05:03But the teams that, like, they know.
05:06The team knows what's going on down there on the farm,
05:09what a player's good at,
05:10what he's not good at,
05:11what they really think about his future.
05:14That's one of the things that was maybe
05:16the most underreported part of the Rafael Devers acquisition
05:20was the fact that you've got all of these fans.
05:24We're out here doing Bryce Watch.
05:26We're having on minor league broadcasters to tell us, like,
05:29okay, what does Bryce Eldridge do at 6 o'clock?
05:33And then what did he do at 6.30?
05:35We're freaking out about Bryce Eldridge.
05:37I don't know what the Giants actually, actually in their heart of hearts
05:42think about Bryce Eldridge, but I do now.
05:45Because the Boston Red Sox called with Rafael Devers.
05:48Rafael Devers.
05:50A three-time All-Star in his 20s.
05:53And they said, we want Bryce Eldridge.
05:55And the Giants hung up.
05:57Yep.
05:58So the Giants think the same as you do about Bryce Eldridge.
06:02That is a non-starter, and we think he's a future star.
06:05And it's interesting to think about that in light of Kyle Harrison.
06:09Now, it doesn't mean that the Giants thought that Harrison
06:12wasn't going to be anything, but when the ask was for Kyle Harrison,
06:16it became a yes, and, you know, you attach Hicks to it
06:19and then a couple of prospects who, you know,
06:22you don't really know what they think about Tibbs
06:24because he's still playing in low A at the time.
06:26Now he's up in double A, so at some point you do have to part with things,
06:30but they were more ready to part with Kyle Harrison than Bryce Eldridge.
06:36So that tells you a lot for me about, you know,
06:38where they thought Kyle Harrison was.
06:40And a little bit over a year ago, the word untouchable was used
06:43when describing Kyle Harrison.
06:45Yes, by a different regime.
06:46Yeah.
06:46But he was called untouchable a year and a half ago.
06:49And part of it is circumstantial because the Giants do have a lot of pitching
06:52in the lower level, so you can afford to part with Kyle Harrison more readily
06:57because you do have other people who can take his place down the road.
07:00And with Kaminga, it's a little bit of a different vacuum where, you know,
07:05the Warriors can think something about him based on what they need right now.
07:10And, you know, they could trade Kaminga while still thinking we'd love to keep him,
07:14but we need to get something now that fits better than him.
07:17So it's not a complete, I think, statement on how they feel about Kaminga,
07:22but the league will let you know in this restricted free agency period
07:25what they think of him.
07:26No doubt, no doubt.
07:27And that's one of the things I'm waiting for.
07:29That's one of the things that stood out to me in this Jordan pool trade today.
07:33He goes to the New Orleans Pelicans along with another player and a pick
07:36for C.J. McCollum, Kelly Olenek, and a pick.
07:40One's one year, the other pick is the next year.
07:43We mentioned Anthony Slater coming on the roast,
07:45and then we're going to go to the phones.
07:48Here are the two things that Anthony Slater said that,
07:52as they apply to Jonathan Kaminga.
07:54First of all, this idea of a sign-and-trade or their plan or whatever,
07:59here's what Slate said to Joe and Joe this morning.
08:02It's tough for me to see a sign-and-trade at this current moment materialize
08:06that is appealing enough for Mike Dunleavy and Joe Lacob to pull the trigger.
08:10We'll see.
08:11You know, they've got to be creative and they can go look in,
08:13and I think the fact that Kevin Durant didn't go to Miami is helpful in the Kaminga market.
08:17I think the fact that Brooklyn still hasn't used a bunch of its cap space should scare the Warriors a little bit
08:21because that's one team that could offer sheet him and really kind of like, you know,
08:25take them into a tricky, you know, scenario.
08:27But still, just considering the market dynamics,
08:32there is a very obvious argument that bringing Kaminga back and revisiting this come December, January,
08:38maybe trading him when you can trade him at his full salary could make more sense.
08:41Okay, which is kind of the scenario you brought up yesterday and liked the best.
08:46Yeah, a sign-and-then trade.
08:47Not a sign-and-trade, but you sign him to whatever,
08:50and then you get the full amount of that value back in a trade at the deadline or before the deadline and whatever.
08:57And, you know, maybe you realize after 50 games with a full camp and Jimmy being here for a camp,
09:02maybe you figure out it actually works.
09:04Yep, maybe you want him.
09:05Right, that's possible, right?
09:07Or maybe his value tanks.
09:08Good.
09:09Maybe his contract looks like a bad one.
09:11But that's my worry.
09:12My worry is you're kind of flying blind, which is, like, how do you figure out this number right now?
09:19I have no idea.
09:20How do you sit down with Jonathan right now and figure out a number?
09:24What are we basing it on?
09:26Are you basing it on the 20-ish per game that you know he could score if you played him?
09:31Are you basing it on the fact that you chose not to play him?
09:35Like, what are you basing it on?
09:37I have no idea.
09:39And Ramona told us yesterday, whatever the offer is, it's likely to be less than what the offer was before the year.
09:44Agreed.
09:45And he didn't like that offer.
09:46Right.
09:47So I don't know why you would like this offer.
09:48Well, you may not like this offer, but if nobody else makes a sheet like, you know, Slates was just saying in that cut, like an offer sheet,
09:56if there are no offer sheets out there, well, then Kaminga's a little stuck with what the Warriors are going to offer.
10:02You get what you get, and you don't get upset at that point.
10:05Yeah, but you do get upset.
10:06You do.
10:07And, you know, he could always just decide he doesn't want to play.
10:10You know, there's things that he could do to make it difficult, but if the offer is $20 million a year, and that's just what it is,
10:18hard to walk away from $20 million to play basketball.
10:22Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of guaranteed money, especially if we're talking about it being four years, or who knows what it'll be.
10:27Okay, here's the other one from Slates, and this is one that I think a lot of people want to try to sink their teeth into.
10:32Does Steve Kerr even want Jonathan Kaminga back?
10:35You know, I mean, I think it depends on what the alternatives are.
10:38What's the sign-and-trade options?
10:39You know, would he just want Jonathan Kaminga to walk away on an offer sheet and bring nothing back?
10:45I mean, that's bad management from a guy who used to be a GM.
10:48Certainly, I think there are ways that Kerr and others would prefer to tweak the roster in a way that, like, you know,
10:57feels to them maybe like it better suits a championship pursuit next season.
11:02But Jonathan Kaminga is, you know, a talented asset with tools that can help any team,
11:09including at times the Warriors last season, including in the second round when, you know,
11:12you'd probably say he was their second-best player in the second round of the playoffs.
11:15And you don't want to just let that go for nothing.
11:19And the alternatives right now, we'll see what materializes,
11:22but the alternatives aren't necessarily that appealing.
11:25So it might be a Jonathan Kaminga coming back.
11:27Did you hear what his voice did there at the beginning of that?
11:30A little bit of an uptick.
11:31An uptick.
11:32Yeah, the voice goes up.
11:34Yeah.
11:34So, like, I remember where we heard that once before.
11:36Listen to Slater.
11:37Does Kerr want Jonathan Kaminga back?
11:40You know, I mean, I think it depends on what the alternatives are.
11:43Okay.
11:43You know.
11:44Yeah.
11:44Like, so, remember when we asked Steve Kerr, like, and I forget, honestly,
11:50what the exact question was.
11:52But the question was something along the lines of, like, do you feel like this whole
12:00Kaminga situation, like, do you feel like this can work going forward with the Warriors?
12:07And it was the exact same little vocal thing.
12:11I do.
12:12Right.
12:13Like, I do.
12:14I do.
12:15Right.
12:16Yeah.
12:16It depends.
12:17Right.
12:18And that's, I mean, Slater's answer is absolutely spot on, which you don't want to have this
12:23end with you getting nothing back.
12:25And that would be, you know, Brooklyn comes in with an offer sheet.
12:28You don't match it.
12:29Kaminga's a Nets.
12:30And you get no compensation for him.
12:32So, you know, is there a way that you can sign him and then keep him and get the value back
12:38up a little bit, then trade him or sign him and keep him and have him go on to have a
12:42long career as a warrior?
12:43There are many other things you could do to make this work outside of you lose him for
12:48nothing.
12:48That would be mismanagement.
12:50Let's go to Doug in Berkeley.
12:51Hi, Doug.
12:52Thank you for calling.
12:53What's going on?
12:54Hey, guys.
12:55Hey, guys.
12:55Enjoying the show.
12:56Thanks.
12:58So, yeah.
13:04I think I'm going to switch it around to what Will had said earlier, what you said, Mark,
13:10and we found out what the league thinks about Jordan Poole.
13:13Yeah.
13:13How about we found out what the league thinks about T.J. McCollum, okay?
13:20In an offhanded way, you were once again dissing Jordan Poole.
13:25Here's what I want to say.
13:27He was a goofball.
13:28He was a talented kid in college, but he was a goofball.
13:32He came up.
13:33He was a goofball.
13:34He went back down to the G League.
13:36He got his act together.
13:38He came up, and he was a different player.
13:41I think that what happened was it was just clear who the team valued more,
13:49this future Hall of Famer, all-star, championship deliverer who can be just a
13:56horrible actor to the point where he threw his own finals MVP away with the way he
14:03acted in 2016, or this kid who could thrive within the structure that was imposed upon
14:12him by the Warriors.
14:14I think that's what we saw in 2022.
14:16We saw how good he can be when he actually had a structure that he had to fit into.
14:25Okay.
14:25And he did it well.
14:25Yeah, but, Doug, first of all, Doug, you lost me with your comment about the finals MVP
14:31in 2016 thing.
14:33Who are you referring to?
14:35Draymond.
14:36Draymond.
14:36Draymond.
14:37Got it.
14:37Draymond would have been finals MVP if he hadn't been Draymond.
14:41I see.
14:42Okay?
14:42I see.
14:43He couldn't control himself to that, but he was going to be the finals MVP.
14:47Okay?
14:48Look, so, Doug, you're welcome to the opinion you have, but the point I'm trying to make
14:55today is now Jordan Poole is involved in a transaction where none of these warrior emotions
15:01are involved.
15:03None.
15:04There's no Draymond.
15:05There's no Chris Paul.
15:06No Steph.
15:07No Steve Kerr.
15:08No fan base.
15:09No nothing.
15:10And you can make this about C.J.
15:12McCollum if you want.
15:13It works both ways, quite frankly.
15:15C.J. McCollum is a very highly paid player who is also about to turn 34 years old.
15:22He is on the downside of his career.
15:25Still a productive player, not a nothing in this league.
15:29But here's the fact that's not arguable, Doug.
15:32Two franchises, because this is really what the Jordan Poole trades have been about, both
15:37of them.
15:38Two franchises decided that that $30 million salary slot over the next couple of years,
15:45is more valuable as an open space thing, an unknown, than it is being actually Jordan
15:54Poole.
15:54I don't, and Doug, you're welcome to feel however you want to feel about the past.
16:00That part to me is inarguable, and if you want to make that me criticizing Jordan, go
16:04ahead.
16:05I'm comfortable with that.
16:06Let me just say one thing.
16:07Sure.
16:08Let me just say one thing.
16:08Okay.
16:09Okay.
16:10Again, I think that within the Warriors system, when he had to play within it, you had to come
16:17off the bench today, you're substitute for clay, you start today.
16:20The kid did a remarkable job.
16:22What we saw was how the Warriors, long ago, long before that, decided that we'll do whatever
16:31Draymond Green wants, and there are reasons for that, because he's great, but we're going
16:36to, we're going to, we're going to do whatever Draymond Green wants, and the reason he's not
16:40on the team as well as he played and how he really helped deliver, this is Jordan, helped
16:45deliver the championship in 2022.
16:49Draymond doesn't want him here.
16:51And then he goes back out to another team, and he's never going to show his potential like
16:56he did in 2022, and he actually would have been probably better if he stayed with the
17:00Warriors now, because he, he, he, as I said at the first, at the outset, he's a loose
17:05goofball, and that's what we're seeing, and it's unfortunate.
17:09Well, and, and, and Doug, you and I see very differently why he's not a Warrior.
17:13You think Draymond Green made that move?
17:15I don't.
17:16I don't, I don't, I don't think that Joe Lacob and Bob Myers at the time and Mike Dunleavy
17:22and Steve Kerr, I don't think, I, I know that people think that they have cowered in
17:28front of Draymond Green before, and you probably have some points, that to me, that is a tiny
17:34piece of this story as to why you would move on from a major nine-figure contract that you
17:42signed.
17:42Draymond wanting that to not be the case is not enough.
17:46No, that's not even, I think, a part of the, the conversation.
17:50You, you looked at Jordan Poole and the contract you signed him to, and you realize that,
17:54you know, he probably was not a great basketball fit currently for what his situation calls
18:00for, and, you know, you ended up getting Chris Paul, and you hoped that that worked, and it
18:03didn't work, and, you know, that might be a trade that down the road comes back to haunt
18:08you a little bit, because you did have to give up your first round pick in 2030, so that,
18:13that pick is coming up here in about five years, you're not going to have it, so.
18:16Protected.
18:16It's protected.
18:17Protected.
18:17Uh, this one is, uh.
18:19Yeah, I think it's protected.
18:20Okay, fine.
18:21Which, I mean, it might be protected at that point if you're a bad team, you, and then it
18:25gets conferred the year after.
18:27It doesn't mean that you don't have to give it.
18:28No, no, no.
18:28Correct.
18:28Correct.
18:29But, you know, it's just the thing that you did, you rolled the dice hoping that Chris
18:33Paul would be the point god for you, and he would fit better than Poole, and so you
18:37did that.
18:38Well, you said something earlier that I, I want to make sure we highlight, make sure everybody
18:42heard, because this was, this was said directly to me.
18:46Like, you mentioned the idea of watching all of these teams around the league right
18:49now who are begging out of if they've got a third player making north of, say, and I
18:57think it's 30.
18:5830.
18:58Yep.
18:59I'm telling you that that was directly said to me.
19:01The day of the Jordan Poole trade, directly said to me, NBA teams with the new CBA are
19:09not going to have three people making over $30 million per year on their squad.
19:13Exactly.
19:14Period.
19:14And even this.
19:14And now you're watching it.
19:16Well, and this upcoming Warrior team, they technically should be on the list because the
19:20average of their top three is way more than 30.
19:23For sure.
19:23They've got number one and number four on the books in the whole league next year, and then
19:27Draymond making about $27 million, but for the sake of the exercise, I didn't put them
19:31on because they didn't have three or more, but Boston had four.
19:35They've already traded one, and Phoenix had the big three.
19:39They've already traded one.
19:41The Pelicans had three.
19:42They've already traded one.
19:43So we look at all these other teams, and Philly's an interesting one because they have three
19:47with Maxie and Joel Embiid if he even decides to play basketball anymore.
19:52So there are other teams.
19:54Minnesota's one, too.
19:55They've got three guys.
19:56And, you know, how long can you sustain that with, like you talked about, the CBA?
20:01Not very long.
20:02Yep.
20:02That's what NBA people are telling me, and that's what their actions are telling us as
20:08well.
20:08Let's go to Larry in Lafayette.
20:09Hi, Larry.
20:10Thank you for calling.
20:12You know, I want to say I'm a Jordan Poole fan, and I definitely understand that it's not
20:19all Draymond Green, but Draymond Green has been involved in this a few too many times for
20:25me, and with other players like KD, and the thing I would say is that Chris Paul trade for
20:32whatever reason, why didn't we do something with that after?
20:37Because we got nothing for Jordan Poole now.
20:40You know, we let Chris Paul walk away for nothing.
20:43That was a horrible loss.
20:46So, why don't I attempt...
20:48Chains are hard.
20:49Yeah, Larry, thank you.
20:51Why don't I attempt to...
20:54You don't have to like this, but the Warriors would disagree with you that they got nothing
20:58for it.
20:59What the Warriors got for Jordan Poole, and I remember we talked about this at the time,
21:03and I get it.
21:04If you're a fan of a basketball team, you care about the basketball.
21:08So, you care about the person that you got back.
21:11The Warriors did not.
21:13The Warriors, what they got for that trade was $30 million in space a year later.
21:20It's the exact same thing the Wizards just did.
21:25What did they do?
21:26You think they want C.J. McCollum?
21:28Do you want to know why C.J. McCollum is attractive to the Wizards today?
21:31Because his contract is up a year earlier than Jordan Poole.
21:35Exactly.
21:35That's it.
21:36They got $30 million to clear off of their books.
21:42That's what they got.
21:44And therefore, I could easily start moving this down the road and tell you that you're
21:48not fitting Jimmy Butler today if you hadn't had cleared Jordan Poole for Chris Paul.
21:53You wouldn't have Jimmy Butler.
21:55So, that's what you got.
21:57That's what you got.
21:58Essentially.
21:59And, you know, that's why when we look at some of the commentators like Sham Sharani is
22:03saying this is going to be the craziest offseason in history.
22:06I do think you're going to see more of these type trades where we could run down all these
22:11contracts and the Embiid one is particularly bad because he's got four more years.
22:17He's at 55 this year and it goes up, up, up from there.
22:21So, Philly's going to have to do something with their situation because they're paying
22:26too many guys huge money.
22:27So, I do think you're going to see more of these high-priced guys start to fly around.
22:33I mean, that's the longest term being scored at O'Brien.
22:36I mean, you've got to see more of these high-pricedルクs that are all this town with your
22:41heart, you know, many things want to be out.
22:42So, that's our point, and keeping a double
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