'It has to be done, this war has to end': Israel-Hamas 'bad deal better than no deal'

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00:00Next, a hostage ceasefire deal in the Middle East is still under discussion this Wednesday,

00:05but does seem now to be closer than ever before.

00:08Mediators say that they are making a final push to seal the deal that would calm Israeli

00:13attacks on Gaza and begin releasing some of the dozens of hostages still being held 15

00:18months after they were taken by Hamas.

00:21We're going to talk more about this potential deal with Middle East expert and former hostage

00:25negotiator Gershon Baskin, who joins me now from Jerusalem.

00:28Gershon, you were the person responsible for the secret back channel between Israel and

00:33Hamas that successfully negotiated the release of another hostage, Gilad Shalit, in 2011.

00:39What are you hearing now from your sources about all of the details of this deal that

00:42are on the table?

00:43Well, we're negotiating the same deal that's been on the table since the end of May when

00:48it was presented by President Biden.

00:50It's taken months before there was the political will to do the deal, and the main difference

00:55between then and now is January 20th and the entry of Donald Trump into the White House.

01:01Trump has let it be known to the Israelis, to the Qataris, the Egyptians, and to Hamas

01:06that he expects a deal to be done before he enters the White House.

01:08He wants his war over.

01:09He wants the hostages home.

01:11And everyone seems to be taking him seriously, his special emissary Steve Witkoff is working

01:18hand in hand with Brett McGurk from the Biden White House in working with the Qataris, the

01:23Egyptians, and the Israelis to get the deal done.

01:25And I think we are very, very close.

01:27Now, in regard to what would be inside this deal, we are hearing things from different

01:32sources.

01:33In regard to this particular hostage release, there would be a first phase, a first phase

01:38with some 33 hostages released.

01:41But then we're getting reporting from media like Haaretz who are saying that the government

01:45of Israel has no intention of then ever getting to phase two.

01:49What are your thoughts on that?

01:50Well, we really don't know that.

01:51I'm assuming that since Hamas has agreed to enter into phase one, and until now their

01:56demand was that there be an obligation or an international assurance that phase two

02:01would lead to an end to the war.

02:02I'm assuming that they got that assurance from the Qataris and the Egyptians through

02:06the White House, through the Trump White House, that in fact the war would end.

02:10According to the agreement on day 16 of the first 42 days, they're supposed to begin negotiations

02:15on phase two.

02:17By day 30, they're supposed to finish those negotiations and the ceasefire should continue

02:21into the second 42 day period, during which time all the remaining 65 Israeli hostages

02:27would be returned in exchange for Palestinian prisoners and Israel would withdraw from Gaza.

02:33There are many difficulties in a deal which takes so long to implement.

02:36It should have been really a much quicker deal of three weeks, not three months.

02:39But nonetheless, it will be done.

02:43It has to be done.

02:44This war has to end.

02:45Indeed.

02:46And I guess this begs the question, is a bad deal better than no deal?

02:51It is a bad deal, and it is better than no deal.

02:53Not all bad deals are better than no deals.

02:55This one is, because every human life that's saved, whether it be on the side of Gaza or

03:00the Israeli hostages or Israeli civilians on the other side of the border, is a whole

03:04universe.

03:05We need to stop the war.

03:06We need to stop the killing and the death and destruction on all sides, and we need

03:10to bring the hostages home.

03:12So even if some of the hostages are brought home and not all of them are brought home,

03:15it's better than not bringing any of them home.

03:18And just to wrap up, what about the far-right members of Netanyahu's government who have

03:21been resistant to a deal?

03:23I mean, might they block this from happening now?

03:25No, they can't.

03:26They don't have a majority in the government.

03:28They could vote against it.

03:29I don't think they will bolt the government.

03:31There's nothing in it for them to leave the government.

03:33They want the Netanyahu government to continue to be in power.

03:36These people from the far right in Israel never dreamed of being in positions of such

03:40power, and it would be political suicide for them to abandon the government that they support.

03:46So I think they'll vote against.

03:47They'll stay in the government.

03:48Even if they leave the government, it's only damage to themselves.

03:51And in fact, from a broader political picture, it would be better if this government falls

03:56faster rather than later.

03:59And Gershon, just before you go, something you touched on at the beginning of our talk

04:03today.

04:04Do you really think that this is happening now just because Donald Trump is coming into

04:07office in five days' time?

04:08A hundred percent.

04:10It wouldn't have happened without Trump.

04:12Israel has made concessions that it refused to make until now in terms of movement of

04:16Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, in terms of releasing prisoners with blood on their hands,

04:21in terms of committing apparently to end the war.

04:25And I think likewise, the Egyptians and the Qataris have a lot of interest with the new

04:29American administration.

04:31It's a complex administration.

04:33Trump is transactional, and everyone wants to be on the right side of the deal.

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