'Objective of destroying Hamas': 'Not a way to bring Israeli-Palestinian conflict to a peaceful end'

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00:00 Let's get more analysis. Yossi Mekelberg is standing by. He's from the Chatham House,

00:04 think tank specialist on the region and often a guest we take advantage of Yossi to get your

00:11 sense of what is happening here and clearly what we're looking at with the hostage situation is

00:16 yet more tragedy and perhaps even more in store. It's an unbearable situation and what Hamas is

00:24 doing with the hostages is against international law, parading them, really torturing the families

00:31 more than 100 days. Obviously wars brings with it many wrongs. There are not many rights in wars,

00:37 many wrongs, but this is cruelty on the highest level towards the families and try to, again,

00:46 we don't know exactly how the hostages died, whether Hamas is correct in saying that they

00:53 were killed by the IDF and by the Bourbon mentor, they were actually murdered by Hamas itself,

01:00 but in any case it's inhumane way to deal with hostages and regardless what Hamas trying to

01:09 portray the Israel and what happens in the last 101 days, I think Hamas should be condemned

01:16 outright for the way it deals with the hostages. Iris Mackler was talking, our correspondent in

01:21 Jerusalem, about how fraught and tense the situation is. That seems in many ways like

01:26 an understatement, doesn't it? We've got Yoav Galant, the defence minister of Israel, saying

01:31 that if the pressure isn't kept on Hamas, there's no way the hostages will be released. Then on the

01:35 other hand, we have António Guterres of the UN calling for an immediate ceasefire. Now, we've

01:41 had this kind of duality of approach throughout the conflict, of course, and we don't appear to

01:47 be getting anywhere near releasing these hostages and it remains the big sticking point, doesn't it?

01:52 As you say, it is a cruel situation, but not a situation that seems to be resolving itself

01:56 anytime soon. Correct, and I think actually what was demonstrated in the past is through negotiations

02:05 with the help of Qatar, the United States and Egypt, hostages were released and I think the

02:12 attitude, as was presented by the Israeli government, that only military pressure will

02:17 bring to the hostages, hasn't been actually so far been exonerated. I'm not so sure this is the case,

02:24 and I'm not even sure the case that the hostages is Israel's top priority. I think

02:29 this, what they call destroying Hamas, maintaining the military campaign against Hamas, is a priority

02:37 more than the hostages. It's a very sad reality, and we see also the families of the hostages

02:44 are increasing the pressure. There are more and more Protestants in Israel because they don't

02:49 believe anymore that the government is seeing the release of the hostages as their number one

02:56 priority and the link between the military pressure and the releasing the hostages.

03:04 From the beginning, there was the argument what's called all for all is the releasing of

03:10 hostages for the release of many Palestinian prisoners. It's not an easy act for any Israeli

03:18 government because what they call many of these prisoners have blood on their hands.

03:22 But in this very unfortunate situation we are finding ourselves in, 7 October,

03:28 I think if you want to see the hostages, as many of them returning to their families,

03:33 probably this is the place. We've seen another, according to Palestinian reports, another 33

03:39 deaths in the Gaza Strip. It brings the overall death toll to beyond 24,000 there. And of course,

03:45 just to remind people, 1,200 Israelis killed in the atrocities of October 7th. And they were

03:50 atrocities. There's no excusing or explaining why it happened. It is just a horrible situation.

03:58 You have Galen saying that the war is taking a different phase now. We've heard about a drawing

04:04 down or a drawing out of troops, Israeli troops coming out of the Gaza Strip. But nonetheless,

04:09 the airstrikes are still continuing. The killing is still continuing. It doesn't appear to be

04:14 changing at all in terms of the approach. I think we always need to remember the two

04:18 wrongs don't make a right. And as you said, what Hamas did on 7 October is inexcusable

04:27 and unforgivable. At the same time, if the death toll--and remember, those are all figures coming

04:33 from Hamas's health ministry, but give or take those numbers also being confirmed by other

04:40 organizations--this is a massive death toll, mainly of innocent people. So it can't be justified.

04:47 And again, as any war, there should be a political horizon, a diplomatic horizon,

04:54 to see what is going to be achieved. This is not the way to bring the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

05:01 to a peaceful end. There is no horizon for based on a two-state solution of coexistence between

05:08 Israelis and Palestinians. And if at all, it will radicalize further. Beyond all this immorality of

05:15 killing so many civilians, there is the issue of whether it's counterproductive--and I believe

05:22 it's counterproductive--to achieving such a peace and future coexistence and reconciliation

05:28 between the people. So at a certain point, ceasefire is probably the most important

05:35 act further. But we also need to remember, you know, the idea or the objective of destroying

05:46 Hamas. What does it mean? Is it possible three months plus after the war started,

05:52 the leadership of Hamas is still standing and they are still capable of launching rockets

05:59 at Israel, meaning someone needs to rethink this idea of destroying Hamas. And what does it mean?

06:06 Yossi Malkaberg of Chatham House, thank you very much indeed for joining us and sharing

06:10 your analysis with us. We always appreciate your time, sir. Yossi Malkaberg joining us there.

06:13 Thank you very much indeed.

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