Next phase requires 'building trust & accepting this war should come to an end'

FRANCE 24 English

Visit our website: http://www.france24.com  Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English  Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/France24_en

Transcript

00:00There were chaotic scenes in Gaza earlier today as the latest hostage release got underway.

00:17Hamas has now freed eight more hostages, three of them Israelis and five others from Thailand.

00:24Israel, for its part, is now preparing to release another 110 Palestinian prisoners.

00:30This is the third exchange since the first phase of a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip took

00:33hold earlier this month.

00:35The truce, of course, aimed at winding down the deadliest and most destructive war ever

00:39fought between Israel and Hamas.

00:42Well, France 24's Mark Owen is covering all of this for us now from Tel Aviv.

00:47He joins me live from there.

00:48Mark, first of all, tell us a bit more about the hostages who were released today.

00:53So, it's three Israelis, it's five Thai nationals.

01:00We're finding it very difficult to get details about the Thai nationals, even though there

01:03has been a group here in the square kind of lending support to them.

01:08However, we can give you more details about the Israeli nationals.

01:11Agan Berger, 20 years old, she was one of the IDF, Israeli Defence Force, spotters who

01:17were kidnapped from a military base near to the southern border with the Gaza Strip.

01:21She was released in Jabalia, in the outskirts of the Gaza City a little earlier.

01:28That was an event, once again, stage managed by Hamas as a kind of show of strength.

01:33It took place in front of the Adnan Hospital, which has been particularly damaged by the

01:37Israeli bombardment.

01:38In fact, all around, rubble could be seen.

01:41So Agan Berger now back in Israeli hands.

01:45Meanwhile, the next release was down in Khan Yunis.

01:48Two Israeli hostages, Avel Yehud, 29 years old.

01:53She was kidnapped from a kibbutz.

01:55She's been brought up there.

01:57Basically, she's one of the civilians who was supposed to be released before.

02:00And her non-release was one of the issues that put the whole ceasefire agreement into

02:05jeopardy.

02:06Israel was saying that Hamas wasn't fulfilling its part of the bargain in not releasing her.

02:10But now she is out, along with an 80-year-old man.

02:15His name is Golgadi Moshe Moses.

02:17From the same kibbutz, his partner was tragically killed on the 7th of October, 2023, during

02:23the Hamas atrocity.

02:26But he is now out, getting back to his family, hopefully within the hours to come.

02:32But of course, both hostages, all three hostages, need to undergo the usual medical and psychological

02:37assessment at the hands of the medical authorities here in Israel.

02:41He, I can tell you, 80 years old, known for his agricultural knowledge.

02:46He's lectured on the subject.

02:48And in the kibbutz where he lived, he was known for making things grow, for helping

02:52people with their plants, their fruit, basically creating crops for the whole community to

03:00try and feed themselves.

03:02So someone who has a reputation of being very peaceful, very learned, and now freed by Hamas

03:09and back in Israeli hands.

03:11What kind of reaction has there been now there in Tel Aviv, particularly where you are in

03:16a hostage square now, as this news has come out?

03:22It's a ritual for the crowds to gather.

03:26Everything is beamed on a big screen.

03:27We've been watching the scenes unfold from Jabalia and from Khan Younis in the Gaza Strip.

03:33And there's been a whole mixture of people cheering, but also people crying.

03:37It's been a very difficult time for many people to come to terms with what's going on.

03:40And of course, everybody seems to have a story to tell about the hostages, about someone

03:45they knew or someone who may have been involved.

03:47And of course, the emotions are very, very high here, I can tell you.

03:51Just across from where I am standing, a few moments ago, Steve Wyckoff, Donald Trump's

03:55envoy, was scooted across the square with his security detail.

03:59We talk about the scenes of chaos in Khan Younis earlier when two hostages were released.

04:06There was a similar, smaller-scale chaotic scrum as Wyckoff was going across the square.

04:10And there was a mix of people, to be fair.

04:13Some shouting, thank you for getting the hostages free, but others shouting, hey, what about

04:17the others?

04:18What are you doing to help them?

04:19So it's very much a mixed bag in terms of how things have been done, how things have

04:23been handled and what people think about it here.

04:26But I think overall, it's been a very positive and, I hesitate to say cheerful, that's probably

04:32the wrong word.

04:34I think there's been a sense of relief wafting across the square, and people hopeful that

04:38this will continue and more hostages will be freed.

04:41Mark, thank you for that.

04:43First and foremost, Mark Owen in Tel Aviv.

04:45We're going to talk more about all of this now with Middle East specialist Yossi Mechelberg,

04:50who joins me live from London.

04:52Yossi, thanks for taking the time to speak to us.

04:54Now, talking not long ago, Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, slammed what he

04:58called the, quote, shocking scenes of this hostage release.

05:02What did you think of about what we could call the staging of these releases by Hamas?

05:07Good afternoon.

05:10I think parading hostages is unacceptable.

05:14It's against international convention.

05:17It's inhumane.

05:18These people suffered a lot.

05:21To have a single woman surrounded by so many men, heavily armed, photographed, paraded

05:29in front of thousands of people, then the others just march, you know, this is a very

05:34– we think, you know, you see the crowds there.

05:38This is scary.

05:39I think that the least humane thing they could do is let this exchange of hostages to go

05:47smoothly in a way that they handed to the Red Cross, then to the Israeli forces, not

05:53adding to the terrible trauma that these people have suffered already.

06:00And you talk about things going smoothly.

06:02I mean, people could say that this first phase of the ceasefire so far has gone relatively

06:06smoothly.

06:07It is thought, though, that the second and eventual third phases will be much more difficult.

06:12Why is that?

06:13Yeah.

06:14And I think, yes, so far, very few hitches.

06:17And whenever there were some hitches, you know, the two sides with the help of the mediators

06:23managed to overcome them, and we see this continue relatively orderly.

06:31But we are entering, and that's why the special envoy, President Trump envoy, is right now

06:38in Israel, is to ensure that the negotiation that's supposed to start on Monday, since

06:46the beginning of the tours, will take place, will start at least.

06:51Because then we're moving into something which is a bit different for both sides.

06:57For Israel, the end of phase two means end of war.

07:01And within the Israeli government, especially the far right, those are, there are members

07:06that are very much against it.

07:09Hamas, it means the release of all the hostages, which means what they see in many ways is

07:15their, as the guarantee to a large, to a certain extent, they won't have it anymore.

07:22And what then will stop Israel from renewing the war?

07:25So that's, it's not only about the details, it's also building trust and accepting that

07:32this war should come to an end.

07:34Indeed.

07:35I mean, we kind of keep coming down to this key point, which is that Israel and Hamas

07:39have long said they are committed to wiping each other out.

07:43How can you move forward on ending a war if you're committed to wiping the other side

07:46out?

07:47Well, this is one of the tragedies of most war, the demonization and dehumanization of

07:54each other, and believing that the only way for them to, for them to prevail is by eliminating

07:59completely the other side.

08:02It's obviously, it's immoral, but it's also unachievable, everything they want to do.

08:08They want to just increase suffering, perpetuate suffering, without a resolution.

08:14And there is another way.

08:15That's the reason that the mediators, the wider international community, is so important.

08:20Keep good pressure on the sides to reach an agreement that will see this being now nearly

08:2716 months with terrible carnage, terrible suffering, so many deaths and devastation,

08:33and to try to move to something else.

08:35It will need, A, to reach this agreement, move then to the third phase of reconstructing

08:41Gaza.

08:42But when this is done, also move into dealing with all the root causes of this conflict.

08:49But this probably also will need different discourse, a very engaged international community,

08:55but I assume also new leaderships.

08:58Now, of course, the details of this current deal were hammered out with the help of Qatari

09:02mediators, Egyptian mediators and U.S. mediators under Joe Biden.

09:06Of course, it was really under the incoming Trump administration where things seem to

09:10really change, particularly in making the ceasefire happen.

09:14Is Donald Trump going to be able to keep the pressure up on both sides to truly end this

09:18war, do you think?

09:19No doubt that the Trump factor played a very important role in this, because this agreement,

09:25give or take, was there on the cards for at least 10 months.

09:30But in this sense, his determination is going to happen and send this clear message to both

09:38sides.

09:39This did the trick.

09:42But at the same time, Trump sent very contradictory signals to both sides.

09:48On the one hand, he says that he wants to bring peace, he wants this agreement to go,

09:53to see through the three phases and much beyond.

09:56And then he talks about moving population, half of the Gaza, maybe more of the population

10:04from Gaza, which is basically a transfer.

10:08He talks about the possibility of some people around him about Israel annexing the West Bank.

10:14Those are very dangerous.

10:15This is very dangerous talk, unless there is more coherent policy, more coherent thinking

10:23there that work with both sides and not prejudicing the outcome of any negotiation, probably won't

10:31be able to make much progress.

10:32All right, Yossi, thank you for taking the time to speak to us.

10:35Middle East Specialist Yossi Mechelberg, thank you.

Category

Transcript

Recommended