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Next phase requires 'building trust & accepting this war should come to an end'
FRANCE 24 English
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1/30/2025
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00:00
There were chaotic scenes in Gaza earlier today as the latest hostage release got underway.
00:17
Hamas has now freed eight more hostages, three of them Israelis and five others from Thailand.
00:24
Israel, for its part, is now preparing to release another 110 Palestinian prisoners.
00:30
This is the third exchange since the first phase of a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip took
00:33
hold earlier this month.
00:35
The truce, of course, aimed at winding down the deadliest and most destructive war ever
00:39
fought between Israel and Hamas.
00:42
Well, France 24's Mark Owen is covering all of this for us now from Tel Aviv.
00:47
He joins me live from there.
00:48
Mark, first of all, tell us a bit more about the hostages who were released today.
00:53
So, it's three Israelis, it's five Thai nationals.
01:00
We're finding it very difficult to get details about the Thai nationals, even though there
01:03
has been a group here in the square kind of lending support to them.
01:08
However, we can give you more details about the Israeli nationals.
01:11
Agan Berger, 20 years old, she was one of the IDF, Israeli Defence Force, spotters who
01:17
were kidnapped from a military base near to the southern border with the Gaza Strip.
01:21
She was released in Jabalia, in the outskirts of the Gaza City a little earlier.
01:28
That was an event, once again, stage managed by Hamas as a kind of show of strength.
01:33
It took place in front of the Adnan Hospital, which has been particularly damaged by the
01:37
Israeli bombardment.
01:38
In fact, all around, rubble could be seen.
01:41
So Agan Berger now back in Israeli hands.
01:45
Meanwhile, the next release was down in Khan Yunis.
01:48
Two Israeli hostages, Avel Yehud, 29 years old.
01:53
She was kidnapped from a kibbutz.
01:55
She's been brought up there.
01:57
Basically, she's one of the civilians who was supposed to be released before.
02:00
And her non-release was one of the issues that put the whole ceasefire agreement into
02:05
jeopardy.
02:06
Israel was saying that Hamas wasn't fulfilling its part of the bargain in not releasing her.
02:10
But now she is out, along with an 80-year-old man.
02:15
His name is Golgadi Moshe Moses.
02:17
From the same kibbutz, his partner was tragically killed on the 7th of October, 2023, during
02:23
the Hamas atrocity.
02:26
But he is now out, getting back to his family, hopefully within the hours to come.
02:32
But of course, both hostages, all three hostages, need to undergo the usual medical and psychological
02:37
assessment at the hands of the medical authorities here in Israel.
02:41
He, I can tell you, 80 years old, known for his agricultural knowledge.
02:46
He's lectured on the subject.
02:48
And in the kibbutz where he lived, he was known for making things grow, for helping
02:52
people with their plants, their fruit, basically creating crops for the whole community to
03:00
try and feed themselves.
03:02
So someone who has a reputation of being very peaceful, very learned, and now freed by Hamas
03:09
and back in Israeli hands.
03:11
What kind of reaction has there been now there in Tel Aviv, particularly where you are in
03:16
a hostage square now, as this news has come out?
03:22
It's a ritual for the crowds to gather.
03:26
Everything is beamed on a big screen.
03:27
We've been watching the scenes unfold from Jabalia and from Khan Younis in the Gaza Strip.
03:33
And there's been a whole mixture of people cheering, but also people crying.
03:37
It's been a very difficult time for many people to come to terms with what's going on.
03:40
And of course, everybody seems to have a story to tell about the hostages, about someone
03:45
they knew or someone who may have been involved.
03:47
And of course, the emotions are very, very high here, I can tell you.
03:51
Just across from where I am standing, a few moments ago, Steve Wyckoff, Donald Trump's
03:55
envoy, was scooted across the square with his security detail.
03:59
We talk about the scenes of chaos in Khan Younis earlier when two hostages were released.
04:06
There was a similar, smaller-scale chaotic scrum as Wyckoff was going across the square.
04:10
And there was a mix of people, to be fair.
04:13
Some shouting, thank you for getting the hostages free, but others shouting, hey, what about
04:17
the others?
04:18
What are you doing to help them?
04:19
So it's very much a mixed bag in terms of how things have been done, how things have
04:23
been handled and what people think about it here.
04:26
But I think overall, it's been a very positive and, I hesitate to say cheerful, that's probably
04:32
the wrong word.
04:34
I think there's been a sense of relief wafting across the square, and people hopeful that
04:38
this will continue and more hostages will be freed.
04:41
Mark, thank you for that.
04:43
First and foremost, Mark Owen in Tel Aviv.
04:45
We're going to talk more about all of this now with Middle East specialist Yossi Mechelberg,
04:50
who joins me live from London.
04:52
Yossi, thanks for taking the time to speak to us.
04:54
Now, talking not long ago, Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, slammed what he
04:58
called the, quote, shocking scenes of this hostage release.
05:02
What did you think of about what we could call the staging of these releases by Hamas?
05:07
Good afternoon.
05:10
I think parading hostages is unacceptable.
05:14
It's against international convention.
05:17
It's inhumane.
05:18
These people suffered a lot.
05:21
To have a single woman surrounded by so many men, heavily armed, photographed, paraded
05:29
in front of thousands of people, then the others just march, you know, this is a very
05:34
– we think, you know, you see the crowds there.
05:38
This is scary.
05:39
I think that the least humane thing they could do is let this exchange of hostages to go
05:47
smoothly in a way that they handed to the Red Cross, then to the Israeli forces, not
05:53
adding to the terrible trauma that these people have suffered already.
06:00
And you talk about things going smoothly.
06:02
I mean, people could say that this first phase of the ceasefire so far has gone relatively
06:06
smoothly.
06:07
It is thought, though, that the second and eventual third phases will be much more difficult.
06:12
Why is that?
06:13
Yeah.
06:14
And I think, yes, so far, very few hitches.
06:17
And whenever there were some hitches, you know, the two sides with the help of the mediators
06:23
managed to overcome them, and we see this continue relatively orderly.
06:31
But we are entering, and that's why the special envoy, President Trump envoy, is right now
06:38
in Israel, is to ensure that the negotiation that's supposed to start on Monday, since
06:46
the beginning of the tours, will take place, will start at least.
06:51
Because then we're moving into something which is a bit different for both sides.
06:57
For Israel, the end of phase two means end of war.
07:01
And within the Israeli government, especially the far right, those are, there are members
07:06
that are very much against it.
07:09
Hamas, it means the release of all the hostages, which means what they see in many ways is
07:15
their, as the guarantee to a large, to a certain extent, they won't have it anymore.
07:22
And what then will stop Israel from renewing the war?
07:25
So that's, it's not only about the details, it's also building trust and accepting that
07:32
this war should come to an end.
07:34
Indeed.
07:35
I mean, we kind of keep coming down to this key point, which is that Israel and Hamas
07:39
have long said they are committed to wiping each other out.
07:43
How can you move forward on ending a war if you're committed to wiping the other side
07:46
out?
07:47
Well, this is one of the tragedies of most war, the demonization and dehumanization of
07:54
each other, and believing that the only way for them to, for them to prevail is by eliminating
07:59
completely the other side.
08:02
It's obviously, it's immoral, but it's also unachievable, everything they want to do.
08:08
They want to just increase suffering, perpetuate suffering, without a resolution.
08:14
And there is another way.
08:15
That's the reason that the mediators, the wider international community, is so important.
08:20
Keep good pressure on the sides to reach an agreement that will see this being now nearly
08:27
16 months with terrible carnage, terrible suffering, so many deaths and devastation,
08:33
and to try to move to something else.
08:35
It will need, A, to reach this agreement, move then to the third phase of reconstructing
08:41
Gaza.
08:42
But when this is done, also move into dealing with all the root causes of this conflict.
08:49
But this probably also will need different discourse, a very engaged international community,
08:55
but I assume also new leaderships.
08:58
Now, of course, the details of this current deal were hammered out with the help of Qatari
09:02
mediators, Egyptian mediators and U.S. mediators under Joe Biden.
09:06
Of course, it was really under the incoming Trump administration where things seem to
09:10
really change, particularly in making the ceasefire happen.
09:14
Is Donald Trump going to be able to keep the pressure up on both sides to truly end this
09:18
war, do you think?
09:19
No doubt that the Trump factor played a very important role in this, because this agreement,
09:25
give or take, was there on the cards for at least 10 months.
09:30
But in this sense, his determination is going to happen and send this clear message to both
09:38
sides.
09:39
This did the trick.
09:42
But at the same time, Trump sent very contradictory signals to both sides.
09:48
On the one hand, he says that he wants to bring peace, he wants this agreement to go,
09:53
to see through the three phases and much beyond.
09:56
And then he talks about moving population, half of the Gaza, maybe more of the population
10:04
from Gaza, which is basically a transfer.
10:08
He talks about the possibility of some people around him about Israel annexing the West Bank.
10:14
Those are very dangerous.
10:15
This is very dangerous talk, unless there is more coherent policy, more coherent thinking
10:23
there that work with both sides and not prejudicing the outcome of any negotiation, probably won't
10:31
be able to make much progress.
10:32
All right, Yossi, thank you for taking the time to speak to us.
10:35
Middle East Specialist Yossi Mechelberg, thank you.
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