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Report
'Less impetus to end war in Gaza: The war is functional to destruction of Palestinian people'
FRANCE 24 English
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12/4/2024
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00:00
For more on this, let's bring in Francesca Albanese, special rapporteur on the situation
00:03
of human rights in the Palestinian territories.
00:06
Thank you for being with us here on France 24.
00:09
Thank you for having me.
00:11
You just heard our correspondent there, Noga Tarnapovsky, saying how for now, mediation
00:16
efforts with Gaza, there was a little bit of hope at the end of last week, but they're
00:20
now at a complete standstill.
00:24
What needs to be done and what should be the UN's role?
00:29
Yeah, I was listening to the intervention before me and I would like to reflect on the
00:35
statement that there is very little push toward a ceasefire.
00:39
The point is that even without push, without pressure, what concerns me the most is the
00:45
total avoidance by UN member states to abide by international law.
00:52
It's very clear because the International Court of Justice has issued provisional measures
00:57
to avoid what it recognized to be a plausible genocide as early as January.
01:03
And in July this year, it has said unequivocally that the occupation is illegal.
01:11
Israel needs to withdraw the troops, dismantle the settlements, and make reparations to the
01:19
Palestinians.
01:20
Instead of working to make it possible, members, most member states, including in the West,
01:28
are looking away, are pretending not to see what's happening.
01:31
It's a carnage every single day.
01:34
So yes, the United Nations is collectively responsible, but the United Nations is also
01:39
fragmented, as fragmented as it has ever been.
01:43
So why is there a political will when it comes to Lebanon, but not when it comes to the Palestinian
01:49
territories?
01:51
Not sure there is political, really political will.
01:55
But also the thing to end, let's say, the war with Lebanon, there was less push internally
02:06
from the settlement bloc, which is becoming more and more influential in Israeli politics,
02:13
to continue the war in order to regain land, while in Gaza, it's very clear that the end
02:21
goal is to get the land that is inhabited from the Palestinians.
02:26
This is what I write in my last report, and it's very important that people understand
02:31
what's going on, take seriously what Israeli leaders are saying, reoccupying Gaza, resettling
02:39
Gaza, which means colonial erasure.
02:42
So this is why I think in Gaza there is less impetus to end the war, because the war is
02:50
functional to the destruction of the Palestinian people who are the obstacle between where
02:56
Israel is today and the realization of greater Israel.
03:00
So as you state, Benjamin Netanyahu has popular backing for a lot of his policies when it
03:07
comes to what's happened the last 14 months.
03:11
That's on the one hand, domestically he has support.
03:14
On the other hand, you point to alleged war crimes.
03:18
So how should the United Nations interact with Israel's prime minister?
03:23
Well, there are different things.
03:26
The United Nations will not only interact with the prime minister, the United Nations
03:31
interact with Israel as a full member of the organization, a state which this year has
03:37
killed hundreds of UN staff members, it has destroyed dozens of UN premises, it has even
03:46
damaged and shot at UN peacekeepers.
03:49
It hasn't damaged the United Nations like no other country in the entire history of
03:55
the organization.
03:56
And this is public knowledge.
03:58
And in the face of it, Israel continues to be given carte blanche.
04:03
So I think that the United Nations-
04:04
Like no, I'm sorry, no other nation, I mean, I don't want to compare war crimes, but you
04:09
know, there are plenty of places around the globe that have been carpet bombed by regimes.
04:14
Yeah, no, no, no.
04:16
But I was not mentioning, no, no, you missed the point I was trying to make.
04:20
I was not mentioning the crimes against civilians.
04:24
I was mentioning the assault on the United Nations as an organization.
04:29
Its premises, its privileges and immunities, the all smear campaign against UNRWA, the
04:36
outlawing of UNRWA.
04:37
So if you only look at Israel's conduct, because you asked me how the United Nations should
04:42
behave, just because the United Nations has been under assault by Israel, like no other
04:49
countries, no other situations, it should consider the status of Israel as one of its
04:55
members because it's in defiance of international law.
04:58
Yes, like other countries.
05:00
But not many other countries maintain an occupation since 1957 years.
05:07
So are you suggesting a suspension or an exclusion of Israel from the United Nations?
05:12
At least raising the opportunity and putting a timeline and measures that have to be taken,
05:20
you know, under the law of state responsibilities, complying with the ICJ advisory opinion, imposes
05:26
obligations on member states not to aid and assist the legal endeavor that Israel maintains,
05:33
not to recognize legal consequences from it, and make sure that political actions lead
05:39
to the cessation of the illegal act, make sure that it leads to reparations.
05:43
All this is a peremptory norm of international law that has been recalled in July by the
05:50
International Court of Justice.
05:52
And because there is the presumption that the Israelis are committing an act of genocide
05:58
within an international court of justice, there are 30 UN, more than 30 UN experts,
06:05
including myself, who have denounced that genocide is being committed.
06:09
In the face of this, why is Israel allowed to go away with impunity?
06:15
The system risks to collapse and we will all miss it.
06:18
One final quick question for you.
06:20
You mentioned the International Court of Justice.
06:22
Of course, the headlines have been in last week's about that other international court,
06:26
the ICC.
06:28
Is France correct when it says that because Israel is not a member of the International
06:33
Criminal Court, that it won't arrest Benjamin Netanyahu if he shows up in France?
06:40
I think that France is not correct in its interpretation.
06:44
I think it's also very different from the interpretation of arrest warrants that France
06:49
has given on other occasions.
06:51
So it seems to me, Putin, again, had putting political convenience ahead of legality.
06:59
And I'm not alone in this assessment, because there is, I think it's the syndicate of French
07:04
magistrates who have, if I'm not wrong, with the name of the organization, which has pushed
07:09
back and said that this is not correct and it should be not the political establishment,
07:16
but the courts to decide what's the course of action to abide by the ICC arrest warrants.
07:23
So it seems to me that French magistrates agree that in case one of the three people
07:30
who have been reached by an arrest warrant set foot in France or in other places where
07:36
the ICC stated applies, they will be arrested.
07:41
I want to thank the UN Human Rights Commission's Francesca Albanese for being with us from Tunis.
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