Israel-Hamas war: Prominent Palestinian human rights activists join FRANCE 24

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00:00Next, Israel's military says it's launched what it's calling a limited ground operation

00:05to take control of northern Gaza.

00:07The aim is to retake, it says, control of the Netzerim corridor.

00:11This follows extensive air attacks on Tuesday and more bombing this Wednesday morning.

00:16Over 400 Palestinians were killed in the strikes 24 hours ago, including, according to Israel's

00:21military, five senior Hamas leaders.

00:24The U.N. has confirmed a staffer has been killed and five others wounded after ordnance

00:28was dropped or fired on their base in the Gaza Strip.

00:33The U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres has condemned on Wednesday attacks on U.N.

00:39personnel and added in a statement from his spokesperson that all parties in Israel's

00:42attack on Gaza knew where the U.N.'s premises were based.

00:47Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel has said the wave of strikes on Tuesday was

00:50only the beginning and that Israel would press ahead until it achieves all of its war aims,

00:55which is basically destroying Hamas and freeing, he says, all hostages held by the militant

01:00group since its October 7, 2023 attack on southern Israel ignited the situation we're

01:08seeing today.

01:09These are the latest images coming in from the scene.

01:13Well joining us here in the studio to discuss more about the situation, we have two guests.

01:16Raji Sarani is a Palestinian lawyer and director of the Palestinian Center for Human Rights,

01:20which is based in the Gaza Strip.

01:22Raji, thank you very much for being with us here on France 24.

01:25And on the other side of the studio is Shaban Jabarin, who is general director of Al-Haq,

01:30a Palestinian human rights organization based in the West Bank.

01:34Gentlemen, thank you both for being with us here on France 24.

01:37Can I start with you, Shaban, about the situation as you're seeing it overall?

01:42We have a situation here where Israel has sent its troops in once again to the Gaza

01:46Strip.

01:48When you see that happening and you think about a possible peace deal being done, I

01:53mean, clearly there is no advancement happening diplomatically in terms of negotiations or

02:00in any way, shape or form right now.

02:01Is that a fair thing to say?

02:03Look, I think it's not a war against Hamas or against this political party or other.

02:09This is a war against Palestinian people everywhere.

02:12That's the case.

02:13What's going on in Gaza to kill around 1,000 persons in 48 hours.

02:21This is not an operation and this is not a limited operation.

02:24This is continuing genocide in Gaza and the slow genocide taking place now in West Bank.

02:32The reason behind all of these things is political reasons to push Palestinians outside of their

02:37country to take everything and when people they want just to live in between Jordan River

02:45and Mediterranean Sea.

02:47That's all of the things because who kill children, women, elders and everyone and destruct

02:55also homes and buildings on heads of people they are living there, it's not like a war.

03:03It's not a battlefield.

03:05It's just to kill civilians and to kill Palestinians.

03:09This is what's going on.

03:10Shame that there is no actions by international community.

03:15There is no action by third state parties to stop all of these atrocities and the genocide

03:21going on since, you know, 2023.

03:26That's what's going on in Gaza.

03:29And even Israelis, if they are in competition, politically speaking, between each other,

03:34the only thing that they want, that the Palestinians, they have to pay the blood, you know, the

03:39receipt, the blood of the Palestinians on the ground.

03:43That's what they do everywhere and it's not new.

03:46And we haven't left, I think, in my point of view, the square of 1948 until now.

03:54It's repeated by, you know, destructing homes, buildings, communities, burning the houses.

04:02There is no military need for all of what they do.

04:05The only thing is, it's a political vision that they want to push Palestinians outside.

04:10All Palestinians, they are targeted.

04:12Sharwan, thank you for now.

04:14Sharwan, of course, based in the West Bank, there's been a similar operation carried out

04:19in the West Bank, not on the same scale, but nonetheless, there have been ongoing operations

04:23to force people out of refugee camps.

04:25I'm thinking Togarron, for instance, and Janine.

04:27That has been going on, hasn't it?

04:28Yes, yes.

04:29It's going on now in Nablus.

04:30They moved now not to Nablus, but to Al Ain refugee camp in Nablus.

04:35And they will move, I assure you, that they will move also to other places in Ramallah,

04:40the refugee camps in Ramallah, in Hebron, in Bethlehem and everywhere.

04:44Let's cross the studio and bring in Raji Sorani of the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights,

04:49based in the Gaza Strip.

04:53Evacuation orders given to northern Gaza before the operation that was launched, nonetheless

04:57bombardment happening.

05:01Israel saying it targets terrorists, not civilians, but nonetheless, lots of civilians are being

05:06killed.

05:08How are you seeing this situation from the Gaza side of it?

05:12Clearly what is happening is huge distress for you, for all Palestinians.

05:19What are you seeing as the next possible outcome of what happens now?

05:25Israel has, since day one of this war, very simple and clear target.

05:32They want to push 2.5 million people from Gaza to Sinai, to Egypt.

05:38This is the ultimate goal.

05:40The president of Israel said simple words.

05:44We cannot distinguish between civilians and Hamas.

05:49All of them are complicit and all of them are human animals.

05:54Netanyahu said all Gazans should be out of Gaza.

06:01And the minister of defense at the time said, no water, no electricity, no food and no fuel.

06:10And we will not distinguish between Hamas and civilians.

06:15Everybody in Gaza complicit and will be targeted.

06:19This was said publicly and clearly three days after October 7th.

06:25And many think, I mean, the conflict began on October 7th.

06:29The Palestinian-Israeli conflict began seven years ago, at least.

06:36And it began with Nakba.

06:37You could count it back even further, even before 1948.

06:41Exactly.

06:42And the Nakba was landmark.

06:46Now, they tried their best to do that by massive killing, massive destruction, massive displacement

06:55and massive starvation all over the place.

06:57And they pushed everybody, as you recall, to the southern part in Mawasi and Rafah area.

07:06And when Netanyahu ordered of invading Rafah and Mawasi, the intention was pushing these

07:14two million people to Sinai.

07:16And this failed.

07:18Now, the intent is there, the practice there, and it's ideal situation of genocide.

07:29And this genocide doesn't happen in one blow, doesn't happen in one day.

07:34This is ongoing systematic patterns.

07:38And this is going for the last 18 months.

07:41Everybody knows about it.

07:43And never stopped.

07:45And once again, I mean, Netanyahu, by bringing Ben-Ghaffir in, this was the deposit in order

07:53to allow such extremists, I mean, to go in.

07:56And again, the intention will be more killing, more destruction, more starvation and more

08:03displacement in order to push the two and a half million people outside of the Gaza

08:09And the West Bankers will come in later stage to be pushed to Jordan.

08:16We don't exist for Israel.

08:18And the good Palestinian is dead Palestinians.

08:21Israel in the Knesset made legislation, in simple words, saying there is one self-determination

08:29for the Jews.

08:30We, the Palestinians, don't exist.

08:33We are the sons of the valley.

08:35We will stay there.

08:36When you say bringing back Itamar Ben-Ghaffir of the far right into Netanyahu's cabinet,

08:40again, there's another statement that this is going to continue in that sense, because

08:43clearly it's the far right that was pushing towards this.

08:46Can I ask you both gentlemen about Hamas?

08:48Because if some people watching this internationally might think if Hamas is taken out of the equation,

08:53that would lead to some kind of a peace situation.

08:56Is that something that you think Israel doesn't care about now?

08:59It's just a question of continuing to get the end that they want, to take control of

09:03the territory.

09:04What would you think if Hamas is out of it, would it change?

09:06What do ordinary Palestinians on the West Bank in Gaza think about Hamas?

09:11Hamas is part of us, part of our chemistry, part of our political structure.

09:15So that's the problem.

09:16Whether we are like it or not, never ever the Palestinian, I mean, was a good person.

09:25I mean, the good Palestinian person is the dead Palestinian.

09:28That's how Israel viewed that.

09:30Arafat was a terrorist, Habash was a terrorist, PLO leadership terrorist.

09:36Every Palestinian who wants to have an end for this criminal belligerent occupation is

09:43a terrorist.

09:44And that includes Hamas too.

09:47I mean, what about Abu Mazen?

09:51He's a classified terrorist.

09:53So all Palestinians support Hamas.

09:56Can I just ask the final word, because our time is up, sadly, and there's so much more

10:00to talk about.

10:01If there was an election tomorrow, would Hamas win?

10:06I don't know.

10:07To be honest with you, it might be, but also nothing will justify the killings of civilians

10:13and attacking in this way, you know, this is a genocide, a continual genocide.

10:18OK, the removal of Hamas, it seems, would make no difference whatsoever.

10:20Shaban Jabarin of Al-Haq, the human rights organisation in the West Bank, thank you for

10:24joining us, and Raji Surani, a Palestinian lawyer, director of the Palestinian Centre

10:30for Human Rights based in the Gaza Strip, thank you for sharing your thoughts and analysis

10:34with us.

10:35And thank you both gentlemen for joining us here at France 24.

10:37We appreciate your time.

10:38We'll continue, of course, to report on all developments on the situation in the Middle

10:42East.

10:43We take a very short break.

10:44After that, the news continues here on Worldy.

10:45Thanks for joining us.

10:46We'll continue, of course, to report on all developments on the situation in the Middle

10:47East.

10:48We take a very short break.

10:49After that, the news continues here on Worldy.

10:50Thanks for joining us.

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