- 7/2/2025
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00:00And Alex Pavlovich of NBC Sports Bay Area is going to be on the River Islands guest line.
00:06Hey, Alex, what's going on, man?
00:08What's going on? I love Bobby Marks. I'm going to have to tune in.
00:11You better, except for I think it lines up right when Bob Melvin's talking.
00:15Who's more secure in their job right now, Bobby Marks or Bobby Melvin?
00:20I think Bobby Marks is the only one who understands the cap, so he's more secure than everybody, right?
00:25That's a good answer. It's a good answer.
00:27Hey, before we get into all of the absolute migraine headache stuff going on with the Giants,
00:34how about the franchise? Your book's coming out on July 8th.
00:39It is. I'm within a week. July 8th, the franchise, A History of the San Francisco Giants.
00:45I put a lot of time into it, so I hope people enjoy it, and it was a lot of fun to do.
00:50I always wanted to write at least one.
00:52Now, after I did it, I was like, yeah, I think one book is enough.
00:55Okay, so there's not going to be book number two for Pavlovich?
01:00There might. There might. No, it was a lot of fun.
01:03I didn't realize how much work it is. I mean, I did kind of, but when you're tackling going back to 1958,
01:10it's like, oh, okay, this is a lot of research. But no, it was worth it.
01:15So when you write a book, because I've always thought about it, and then I think about it for like nine seconds and think, nah, I'm not cut out for that.
01:22Like, what do you do? Do you make an outline, and then you go one by one?
01:27Or how do you go about going from idea to July 8th when the book is coming out?
01:32Yeah, it was funny. Triumph, the publisher, kind of was like, you have a blank slate.
01:37Like, do what you want on the Giants.
01:38And so I came up with a long list of people and seasons and things that I felt like I needed to hit.
01:45I think it was like probably about 50 and ended up cutting that a little bit and combining some things.
01:51But, you know, it goes back to the Hall of Famers, goes back to Will Clark in 1993,
01:58and then obviously the championship years, all the aces, and even through 2021 and 107 wins
02:04and some free agency stuff, which was fun to dig into.
02:07So I made a long list and spent a lot of time talking to people and talked to Bryce Harper, Clayton Kershaw,
02:13Juan Marichal. It was a lot of fun to sit down with people.
02:17But, yeah, when you sit there the first time and you, like, open up that file, it's like, oh, okay, 100,000 words to go.
02:25Well, let's go.
02:26See, I was thinking now you could just open up your laptop and be like, hey, chat GPT, write a Giants book.
02:33Oh, man.
02:33And then it's over. There you go. You got a book.
02:36Maybe that'll be book number two.
02:38Yeah, that's the takeover.
02:40Yeah, no joke. All right, Alex Pavlovich.
02:42Again, the book is the franchise. Comes out July 8th.
02:45I assume Amazon and all the normal places, Alex. Is that where it's going to be?
02:49Yeah, you can preorder it right now on Amazon and then through Triumph.
02:53And it'll be in local bookstores.
02:55And I'll have a couple signings coming up in July, too.
02:58Oh, look at you.
02:59Hope to meet some people.
03:00Yeah, let us know about that.
03:01I like to crash those kinds of parties.
03:05So, anyway.
03:06Yeah, perfect. All right.
03:08Now, what do we do with this team?
03:10Because everybody's mad.
03:11Yeah, what do we do, Alex?
03:12Well, it would help if they'd score more than two runs.
03:16So, that would be a start.
03:18I think, look, I've been saying this for a few weeks on air, on our podcast.
03:25And Buster said it yesterday.
03:26Logan Webb reiterated it.
03:28Like, this comes down to the players.
03:30I mean, they're relatively healthy when you look around the division.
03:33They're playing a Diamondbacks team that's without Corbin Carroll,
03:36without their catcher, without their first baseman.
03:38Corbin Burns said Tommy John.
03:40Their whole bullpen's hurt.
03:41So, like, there's no excuse here to say, like, oh, Matt Chapman's out of the lineup.
03:45And there's been, you know, you've lost a couple third basemen, three-third basemen now.
03:50It really comes down to the players.
03:52And we've seen Devers struggle since he came over.
03:54John Kooley, it's been about six weeks for him since he's really hit.
03:59Willie Domis has been better of late, but the whole year has not been what he expected.
04:03And, you know, last night we see Birdsong just kind of lost it for ten minutes there.
04:08And I think that was the most interesting part about yesterday to me was Buster very forcefully saying, like,
04:15I'm pretty close to my playing career, and this is the way I feel about it, is this has to come from the clubhouse.
04:20And I think he believes in this talent of this group, but at some point you have to put it together.
04:26And putting it together is easier said than done.
04:30So, like, what is the next step from Bob Melvin?
04:34Or, you know, we talk a lot about the hitting coach when a team's not hitting well.
04:37Pat Burrell.
04:38What are the things that can be fixed in the near term to get them ready for tough opponents down the road?
04:45I think one thing they're trying to do a little bit right now is just back off a little bit and maybe, you know, spend less time in the cage.
04:51It's a tendency to overdo it in times like this and try to hit your way out of it.
04:55But they did, you know, have a lighter BP yesterday.
04:59I think the plan to do that tomorrow as well.
05:01And, look, it's a tough stretch in a lot of ways, and you're not helped by being in Arizona where it's 110 degrees
05:08and then going to sack for three days where you have to play night games because it's going to be so hot there.
05:12So I think they're trying to get guys to just maybe back off a little bit and go out there.
05:16And it's like it's going back to your roots a little bit.
05:19Just see ball, hit ball, go out there, play defense, go out there and attack when you're pitching.
05:24But it is easier said than done.
05:27And it's hard to tell guys, too.
05:29If you go over four, it's hard to tell someone, like, hey, don't spend an hour in the cage tomorrow.
05:33Like, go and relax.
05:34Go and try to go up and just see the ball.
05:37Alex Pavlovich, NBC Sports Barrier, with us on Willard and Dibs.
05:39Alex, I've got a couple of Rafi Devers questions.
05:42Let me start with this one.
05:44Did something change in the clubhouse as far as the mixture when he arrived?
05:52Like in a negative way?
05:54Yeah, just any way.
05:55Like the ingredients of everything.
05:57Because I know it's been a really good, positive clubhouse.
06:02But did something just, right, are the ingredients different
06:06and they're sort of searching for that vibe again or no?
06:10No.
06:10You know, it's interesting, actually.
06:12You could see it in the dugout last night early on, and Bob said this after the game.
06:16He said the energy after the first couple runs was as good as it's been all year.
06:22I think they, the clubhouse, I mean, you know, I tell people this all the time.
06:25I'm in there every single day.
06:26I'm keeping a close eye.
06:27I'm looking always for things that stand out.
06:31It's been a really good clubhouse the entire year.
06:33It's a group that genuinely gets along.
06:35And I think, you know, Devers is close with Adamas.
06:39He knows some other guys.
06:40He's not going to be a rah-rah guy.
06:42I mean, he's not going to be a team leader.
06:44He has said that himself.
06:45But they don't need him to be.
06:46So I don't know that anything's changed there.
06:48And then also on Rafi, like, what is the hesitation to put him over at third base
06:54in this current situation?
06:56And how close is he to playing first base?
06:59Well, you could see it on the double last night if he was going into second base.
07:04I mean, whatever, all they've told us is there's a little bit of a groin thing
07:08and a little bit of a back thing.
07:10And they haven't really expanded on that.
07:12And obviously, I mean, he hit a ball 110 last night.
07:14So, like, physically he's not too compromised.
07:16But you can see him when he's running.
07:18It doesn't look right.
07:20And sometimes we'll watch him after he, like, he gets thrown out last night
07:23and you watch him go back to the dugout.
07:25He just doesn't look comfortable.
07:26So I think physically they don't feel great about him even playing first base
07:30right now.
07:31I mean, I was shocked that the Diamondbacks last night didn't try to bunt on
07:34Wilmer, like, four times.
07:35I think if they find out that Rafi Devers has a groin issue in his playing third,
07:39I think Alec Comets is going to put three bunts down.
07:42So that's physically I think there's some limitations right now.
07:46And the other walking wounded, you know, Casey Schmidt and Matt Chapman,
07:50what are you hearing about their ability to come back
07:52and what the timeline might be?
07:54Because right now we're playing a game here on our show, Alex, of guess who's
07:58playing third?
07:59Spoiler alert, I'm wrong every day.
08:02Well, it's Brett Wisely tonight.
08:04So, yeah, it's, you know, Chapman's doing really well.
08:07He took BP yesterday.
08:08It went well.
08:08I watched him take grounders that looked like Matt Chapman.
08:12He is kind of in their ear every single day, like, I'm ready, I'm ready, I'm ready.
08:16I keep taking, I don't know if it's the over or the under or whatever.
08:20I keep taking the side of he is going to be back before people expect.
08:24And they originally said that Dodgers series.
08:26Now they're kind of like, oh, he might be back for the Phillies next, you know,
08:29at some point Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday.
08:31I wouldn't be shocked, especially if it keeps going like this the next couple days,
08:36if they get to Sacramento and he goes, no, I'm ready, I'm physically ready,
08:40and I'm our best third base, I'm our best option.
08:43So I wouldn't be shocked that Bob Melvin and Dave Gresher and all those guys are
08:46basically trying to hold them back right now because they're like, look,
08:49there's half a season to go.
08:50And this was, you had a pretty good scare, and we're pretty close to a pretty big injury.
08:56So they're trying to be careful here, but Matt's itching to get out there.
08:59Alex, what's wrong with Hayden Birdsong?
09:02It is really bizarre.
09:04And, you know, last night, I mean, one of my favorite quotes of the season,
09:08he said it's almost like there's a force field that goes up at some point,
09:11and he doesn't really know what's going on.
09:14He just all of a sudden loses the strike zone, and he can't, you know,
09:18it's happened to him a few times now.
09:20And the stuff was good last night.
09:22The first three innings, he was really sharp.
09:23First time through, struck out five guys.
09:26I think it's one thing we have to remember, he's 23 years old.
09:30He made 38 starts in the minor leagues, which is like a season and a half for a prospect.
09:35He started this season in the bullpen, so he's had a very strange, like,
09:38three years in terms of development.
09:41And he has a very bright future, and right now I think he's trying to learn
09:44at the big league level.
09:45And if they were not losing every night, that'd be a little bit easier to hide.
09:50But it's tough when you're in that position, and you have a night like last night,
09:54and you have a game like he did last week.
09:57It really stands out.
09:59So, for me, the main thing is it's just a really young guy who's trying to learn
10:02how to be a big league starter against big league teams.
10:05Do we read anything into calling up Mason Black, who is a starter?
10:09Like, he's been starting in Sacramento.
10:13Like, is there a possibility he's taking Hayden's outing the next time out?
10:16I don't think so.
10:18I mean, there was a little bit of a last night of we'll talk about it,
10:22and we'll ask Bob today.
10:23You know, usually those things, they look into the next day, and they go,
10:28man, he's still probably our best option.
10:30If there's a next man up, it's Carson Wisenhunt.
10:33So, if they decide to make a move, I think the move would be to turn to their top
10:37pitching prospect, who's Wisenhunt.
10:39Black, for me, is like, hey, Carson Seymour had to throw three innings last night,
10:43and someone, you know, might have to soak it up today or tomorrow or this weekend.
10:48So, I think that's a little bit of bullpen depth.
10:51But it is certainly a conversation they'll have today and tomorrow about, you know,
10:55if Hayden needs a breather or what's the best path through this.
10:58Yeah, and Wisenhunt not on the 40-man, so that would require some sort of a move
11:02at that level.
11:03But when you look at the long term of the rotation, and I'm thinking about Roop in particular
11:08and Birdsong, guys who are going to be tiptoeing up toward their innings limit,
11:12do you see a longer-term problem with these young guys eating up this many innings?
11:18I do.
11:19I'll tease tomorrow's Giants Talk podcast.
11:21You guys' friend Bonte is co-hosting with me, and we talked a couple hours ago,
11:26and I said, what do you want to talk about?
11:27And he said, I remember a couple weeks ago you told me you were worried about the rotation.
11:30And he's like, we need to talk more about that.
11:32So, I think, yeah, I'm with you there.
11:36I think Roop will ultimately be okay.
11:38He's a big, strong kid, and he's kind of built like a Matt Cain, like a Logan Webb.
11:46He has had some high innings counts earlier in his career, not necessarily last year.
11:50So, I think they have a way to get him through that.
11:53And Birdsong, I think they have a way to get him through that as well.
11:56But certainly, you kind of look around and you go like, well, Jordan Hicks wasn't good,
12:00but he also was in the rotation to start the year.
12:02He's gone.
12:02Kyle Harrison was your next line of defense.
12:04He's gone.
12:05And we saw Seymour.
12:08I mean, he's someone they're excited about.
12:09But also, you saw last night, like, there's some things for him to work on.
12:12You saw with Hayden, there's some things.
12:13So, the rotation depth is not what they had a few weeks ago,
12:18and it's not what they had coming out of camp.
12:20And I think that is probably, I know that's at all times what keeps team executives up at night,
12:24but that is probably something that worries them a little bit about the second half.
12:28It's just, you know, can you get through it?
12:30Because a lot's been put on this rotation.
12:32A lot's been put on this bullpen.
12:33And do they have enough arms to get through this if they're going to be playing one-run games every night?
12:38You're listening to 95.7 The Game, KGMZ FM and HD1 San Francisco,
12:41and Odyssey Sports Station in the home of the Golden State Warriors and Valkyries.
12:45Always live on the free Odyssey app, coming to you live from the Laughing Monk Studios.
12:49We're hanging with Alex Pavlovich on the Giants' NBC Sports Bay Area.
12:54Alex, has the organization in any way soured on Patrick Bailey?
13:00I get that they love his catching, but it appears like, I mean, he's got a large sample on the offensive side now,
13:07and it's nothing special.
13:10You know, it's interesting you asked that.
13:12Last night was kind of the, you've seen Bob Melvin's post-games.
13:16I mean, he is from the Bruce Bochy school.
13:19I'm very rarely going to say anything negative about any of my players, any of my coaches.
13:25And last night he did.
13:26And he said that, you know, the two-pass balls, he said they can't happen in that situation,
13:32directly led to three runs.
13:34And it really is, it's the result of trying to do what Patrick is maybe the best in the world at,
13:40which is framing pitches, but trying to do it every single time.
13:44And there are times where you don't need to frame a pitch, and it's cost him.
13:48I mean, it's been something I get asked about a lot from Giants fans,
13:51because he does do it pretty regularly.
13:54You'll see balls just drop out of his glove as he's trying to frame them.
13:57And I think that was interesting to me, just the frustration of, you know,
14:02there's maybe some buildup there of, there can't be defensive mistakes
14:08if the hitting's going to be this way.
14:10I think they're, you know, they're really happy with the way he leads the pitching staff.
14:15I'm watching him right now.
14:16He's out there with the bullpen right now talking to guys.
14:18And he does a really good job behind the scenes.
14:21He does a really good job defensively.
14:23You can kind of put up with the hitting to some extent from a catcher.
14:27I mean, I know people don't want to hear that, but look around the league,
14:30just look at most of the catchers.
14:32Like, this is where a lot of them are, and Patrick's better than all of them defensively.
14:36But I think there can't be the little mistakes, too.
14:39And then last night, I think we saw some frustration from Bob Melvin.
14:42Is there a sense defensively with this team, Alex,
14:44that they are underperforming as to where you thought that they would be?
14:50I think they're about where I thought they would be.
14:52I mean, Jung-Hoo's been really good in center.
14:55Willie's been better the last month at short.
14:59Yeah, you know, Elliot Ramos in the left, it's been up and down with him.
15:03Like, I think that's maybe a little disappointing just because he's been a center fielder
15:07in the past, and the metrics there don't love him in left field.
15:11Overall, I mean, it's not a good defensive team.
15:14It's about an average defensive team, I think.
15:17So it is like if you're going to be scoring two runs a game,
15:20you need to be a good defensive team.
15:22So maybe that's a disappointment.
15:23But overall, I think if you go position by position,
15:25most guys I think have done okay or above that.
15:29Alex, is this a moment in time, or is it something bigger than that?
15:33You still see it as a playoff team?
15:37Well, I do.
15:38I see him as a potential playoff team because I think, you know,
15:42there are some really good things here.
15:44The bullpen, there are some really good pieces there.
15:47You do have the two guys at the top of your rotation who are probably going to be
15:49all-stars.
15:51You look at the lineup, and once they get healthy, I mean,
15:54there's too much talent in that lineup for them to score two runs a game.
15:57So at some point, you figure those guys will figure it out.
16:00Now, having said that, they've basically given away the advantage they had
16:03from that really hot first two weeks of the season,
16:06and they've let all these other teams in other divisions catch them,
16:09and they've let a team like the Diamondbacks go out there.
16:12And, you know, some of the quotes last night coming out of their clubhouse
16:15and their postgame show was interesting.
16:17They're like, don't forget about us.
16:18I think the Diamondbacks are like, we're about to chase one down,
16:21and, you know, the Padres are right in front of them.
16:24So it's not great.
16:26I also think that when you said moment of time,
16:30the first thing I thought was that we haven't seen Buster go through a trade deadline.
16:34And Buster, to me, is a little, you know, we've seen he's very decisive
16:37when he feels one way or another about this group.
16:40And right now he believes in them, but this is the easiest two weeks of their season,
16:44and it's been a train wreck so far.
16:47And if it keeps going like this, and, you know,
16:49they come home to the Phillies and the Dodgers,
16:51if you look up at, you know, the All-Star break in a week and a half
16:56and you're 500 or you're below 500,
16:59I'm fascinated to see how Buster reacts to that
17:02because I don't think Buster is going to do what we've seen the last three or four years,
17:05which was kind of middling.
17:06Like, you know, we'll kind of keep guys around
17:08and see if we go on a run in August.
17:10And, you know, I don't think he's going to do that.
17:12I think he's going to choose a path one way or the other.
17:15So, for me, this next week and a half is a moment to kind of watch where they end up
17:19at the end of next Sunday after they play the Dodgers.
17:22Oof, oof.
17:23Very, very interesting.
17:24Two more with the D-backs, then the A's, then the Phillies,
17:27then the Dodgers before the break.
17:29Alex, great stuff, man.
17:31We'll keep helping you throw that book out there, get the info out.
17:35I appreciate it.
17:36I appreciate it.
17:36Good luck with everything, man.
17:38Thank you for coming on.
17:39All right, guys.
17:39Anytime.
17:40Okay, there it is.
17:41Alex Pavlovich, NBC Sports Bay Area.
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