Podcast OA! - Convidado: Hillel Neuer

Name: Podcast OA! - Convidado: Hillel Neuer
Uploaded: 2025-07-01T01:44:15+00:00
Duration: 1 h 4 min 15 s
Channel: O Antagonista

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00:00:00De conversa boa, todo mundo quer participar. O Antagonista também.

00:00:07Nossa equipe recebe convidados especiais para um bate-papo leve e divertido sobre as experiências de cada um.

00:00:15Podcast O.A. Conversa boa de ver e ouvir.

00:00:20Salve, salve. Eu sou Felipe Moura Brasil. Sejam todos bem-vindos a mais um episódio do Podcast O.A.,

00:00:24o programa semanal com convidados aqui da nossa equipe do portal O Antagonista.

00:00:29Toda segunda-feira, às 19h30, um episódio novo no canal de YouTube de O Antagonista, um convidado presencial.

00:00:35Com ele, a gente aprofunda temas do debate público brasileiro e internacional.

00:00:40E hoje, o nosso convidado é internacional. É o Heléo Neuer. Ele é diretor da ONG UN Watch, que vigia a ONU, que monitora a ONU.

00:00:48A gente acompanha o trabalho dele há muitos anos. Ele confronta representantes de ditaduras, em reuniões, em conselhos de direitos humanos.

00:00:57Ele desfaz certas narrativas a respeito do conflito em Gaza. Nós já mencionamos ele em diversos artigos, em diversas reportagens.

00:01:08Então, a gente está muito honrado com a presença dele.

00:01:10Mr. Neuer, please, welcome. And we are honored to have you here. It's a great pleasure.

00:01:18Thank you so much. It's really great for me to be my first time in South America, in Brazil, in Sao Paulo. Great to be here. Thank you.

00:01:26Mr. Neuer, I've been listening to your speeches. I've been watching your videos for more than 10 years, since, I believe, 2014,

00:01:34when there was a different kind of tensions between Israel and Hamas.

00:01:38And there was a phrase that you said that caught my attention back there, when you were confronting representatives of dictatorships,

00:01:48saying to them that they are not pro-human rights. They are anti-Israel.

00:01:54And you keep saying this. You used this phrase a few days before this interview in a United Nations meeting.

00:02:01How did you come up with this sentence that I consider so precise? And why do you keep using it?

00:02:09Well, why I use the phrase is because the pretense, the premise of these speeches is we care about human rights.

00:02:19You know, in 2007, I gave a speech that's the first time, a speech that went viral because YouTube had just begun.

00:02:27This is March 2007. And the old Human Rights Commission, which was founded in 1946, and in the year June 2006, so 60 years later,

00:02:39they eliminated it and they created a new body. They replaced a new body called the Human Rights Council.

00:02:44And this was supposed to be new and improved.

00:02:47And Ban Ki-moon, the Secretary General, had the idea. He proposed it in February 2005.

00:02:53He said the old Human Rights Commission had become selective and politicized.

00:02:58So, and it was being used by members to shield their own records, violations, and those of their allies.

00:03:07So it was the opposite of what it was meant to be, was to promote human rights, help victims on the ground.

00:03:12He said, we need to replace it with a new body where countries will have a solid record, the highest record of promoting human rights.

00:03:19And that happened in June 2006, where they created the new and improved Human Rights Council.

00:03:25And in that first year, all they did in the first year, all they did was to condemn Israel each year, each month, one after the other.

00:03:32There had been the second Lebanon war in the summer of 2006. They condemned Israel.

00:03:36There was an attack from Gaza. Israel responded. They condemned Israel. All they did was condemn Israel.

00:03:44And in March 2007, I took the floor and I called them out.

00:03:47And I talked about the dream of Eleanor Roosevelt, the founding chair of the Human Rights Commission.

00:03:51By the way, 1946, Eleanor Roosevelt, founding chair.

00:03:55She was the great humanitarian of the era.

00:03:58She used to write a newspaper article in America, syndicated in many newspapers, speaking out for widows, orphans, black people, people who didn't have a voice in the United States at that time.

00:04:09And she was quite appropriately the founding chair of the Human Rights Commission.

00:04:14And her vice chair was René Cassin, eminent legal philosopher.

00:04:18And I spoke in that speech in March 2007.

00:04:20And I said, the founder's dream after the Holocaust was to reaffirm the principle of human dignity.

00:04:27And I looked, I said, where are we today?

00:04:30And I enumerated how in the first year of this Human Rights Council, all they did was attack Israel, didn't say anything for people being slaughtered in Darfur or human rights abuses taking place in many other countries.

00:04:43And all of this was being done in the name of human rights, in the name of Palestinian human rights.

00:04:48And I said, actually, the dream of Eleanor Roosevelt was being turned into a nightmare.

00:04:53And they were actually, the butchers of Darfur were being given a place at the United Nations.

00:04:59And I said, the dream was being turned into a nightmare.

00:05:02And then the president of the Human Rights Council, he's not supposed to speak afterwards.

00:05:08He's supposed to thank me and next speech.

00:05:10That's all he does.

00:05:11He's sort of, in baseball, we have an umpire.

00:05:13Or in soccer or in football, you might have a referee.

00:05:15I don't know what it's called.

00:05:16But really, it doesn't get involved.

00:05:19It just says, you know, next speech.

00:05:21Not supposed to get involved.

00:05:23A referee would even be a strong term.

00:05:26But this time, he said, for the first time, for Pramera Vez, I will not thank the speaker.

00:05:31And he said, what you said is an insult to the memory of the founders.

00:05:35Well, I praise the memory.

00:05:36And he said, if you ever give that speech again, it will be stricken from the record.

00:05:42It will be deleted.

00:05:43Now, why do I mention this?

00:05:44It's just to recall that the founding president was Eleanor Roosevelt.

00:05:48And in 2003, the chair was Muammar Gaddafi's regime of Libya, his ambassador.

00:05:56So, Eleanor Roosevelt, 1946.

00:06:002003, Colonel Gaddafi's Libya.

00:06:02So, that's the rise and fall of human rights at the United Nations.

00:06:06That's sort of the background.

00:06:08Because you usually point out the killings and the civilian casualties in those regimes.

00:06:14Yes.

00:06:14Libya, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Syria.

00:06:17Syria, Turkey.

00:06:19Yeah.

00:06:20China put a million Muslims in camps.

00:06:22The Uyghurs put them in camps.

00:06:24In the country formerly known as Zaire, now called Democratic Republic of Congo,

00:06:32maybe half a million people were killed in recent years.

00:06:35And these things typically, so there's some exceptions.

00:06:38Sometimes they address some of them.

00:06:39But typically, they are ignored.

00:06:41And the worst dictatorships get elected to high bodies.

00:06:44So, the Human Rights Council today includes China.

00:06:471.5 billion people know human rights.

00:06:49China is a member of the Human Rights Council.

00:06:51As we are speaking now, China just finished voting for resolutions on human rights.

00:06:56In several cases, condemning Israel as a human rights violator.

00:07:00And why do you have a seat there in those meetings?

00:07:03Sometimes we feel that everybody hates you there.

00:07:06Because when we speak, you're often answering their narratives and correcting their narratives.

00:07:15Yeah, it's a good question.

00:07:17Why would they allow us to have a seat?

00:07:19Indeed, as you said, in the German newspaper Bild and in a Dutch magazine recently,

00:07:24I was called, correctly, the most hated man at the UN.

00:07:27When I walk in there, if looks could kill, I'd be dead a thousand times.

00:07:33You know, the stares that I get, certainly from the dictatorships, whether it's the China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea,

00:07:42or from the Arab states, because we call out their human rights records, whether it's Syria, Libya, Jordan,

00:07:55Muslim states like Iran, Pakistan, we call out their abuses.

00:07:59But also, that's sort of obvious.

00:08:01People assume the dictatorships, the Islamic regimes who are pushing Islamophobia resolutions

00:08:06to prevent any criticism of radical Islam.

00:08:10But sadly, and this is the paradoxical part for people who may not follow these things so closely,

00:08:16but it's not rational, is that the human rights groups, not all of them,

00:08:20but the radical left human rights groups, groups like Amnesty International,

00:08:23which have this very bizarre, irrational alliance, the red-green alliance.

00:08:29Jeremy Corbyn, who was the head of the Labour Party and is on the radical left wing,

00:08:34he said, Hamas and Hezbollah, he said, our friends, our friends from Hamas and Hezbollah.

00:08:40And if you sit at the Human Rights Council and you hear the speech from Amnesty International,

00:08:45and then you hear the speech from Iran, if they're talking about Israel, it's the same speech.

00:08:49I challenge someone to identify, you know, I can do a game of Iran or Amnesty International.

00:08:55When the subject is Israel, you wouldn't know.

00:08:58If I give the text, if I give you the text of the speech,

00:09:00Iran will be saying Israel's committing war crimes and apartheid and genocide.

00:09:05Amnesty International, just sponsored in Stockholm, huge banner.

00:09:10In Swedish, it says Mord Volk, which is killing the people, genocide.

00:09:15Unfortunately, it could be Lula also.

00:09:18It could be Lula also.

00:09:19I understand that in February 2024, he spoke at the African summit in Ethiopia,

00:09:23and he said what Israel is doing is like what Hitler did to the Jews,

00:09:27which is obscene, shocking, and is a textbook definition of hatred against Jews.

00:09:32And it's a lie.

00:09:33It's a lie because on October 7th, Hamas attacked Israel.

00:09:37There was a ceasefire in place for several years.

00:09:39Hamas invaded Israel and one day slaughtered 1,200 Jews,

00:09:42the worst anti-Semitic attack since the Holocaust.

00:09:45And Israel had a duty to defeat Hamas, and that's called self-defense.

00:09:51And what Lula said is an inversion of what happened on October 7th.

00:09:56Do that this year.

00:09:57Hello.

00:09:58Looking worldwide, do you see in any country that the Human Rights Council

00:10:03is doing a good job protecting human rights?

00:10:06From time to time.

00:10:07From time to time.

00:10:08And if the United States and the European countries and Canada and Australia,

00:10:13when they mobilize, and if there isn't sufficient resistance from the dictatorships,

00:10:20then on rare occasions they can take action.

00:10:23So North Korea is an example.

00:10:25North Korea has very few allies.

00:10:26China protects them a little bit.

00:10:28But at the United Nations, they don't want to say too much.

00:10:30So when a resolution is brought on North Korea, it happens once a year, it passes.

00:10:34On Iran, for several years there was nothing, but began to be some action,

00:10:40and they can pass a resolution on Iran.

00:10:43Syria, there were a few resolutions.

00:10:45So here and there, a few countries can be addressed,

00:10:49but most of the world's worst abusers get a free pass.

00:10:53There has been zero resolutions, zero commissions of inquiry,

00:10:57zero monitors, special rapporteurs appointed on China, 1.5 billion people.

00:11:03Pakistan, very large country where Muslim minorities get persecuted,

00:11:07Christians get persecuted.

00:11:09A woman can have acid thrown on her face,

00:11:11and the government allows these kinds of radical Islamic attacks.

00:11:15Pakistan has never been addressed.

00:11:16Egypt has thousands of political prisoners, never been addressed.

00:11:19Cuba is a police state.

00:11:21Young protesters were thrown into prison.

00:11:25There may be hundreds of political prisoners, young people, zero resolutions.

00:11:29The majority of countries, of worst abusers, are never addressed.

00:11:32But simply passing a resolution can have an effect on the ground?

00:11:37Yes and no.

00:11:38First, the no.

00:11:39The no is that the Human Rights Council has no real budgets.

00:11:44They don't have money to throw.

00:11:46They don't have the power of the sword.

00:11:47They can't send troops on the ground.

00:11:49So if you're asking immediate impact, no.

00:11:52No immediate impact.

00:11:53However, words have power.

00:11:56And those of us around this room, those of us, the audience who is listening,

00:12:00know that words have power.

00:12:02Word, you know, thoughts are father to words,

00:12:07and words are father to deeds.

00:12:11It turns out, actually, that the dictatorships work very hard

00:12:15so that no words are said about them.

00:12:17Because when the Human Rights Council, the United Nations, when they speak,

00:12:21these words go around the world, and they do affect legitimacy.

00:12:25Precisely those countries, those regimes that have zero legitimacy

00:12:30because they are unelected, they are the most nervous, anxious, concerned

00:12:36that anyone will call out and expose their illegitimacy.

00:12:40So were the United Nations, if the United Nations were to say,

00:12:45Xi Jinping has never been elected, he oppresses 1.5 billion people,

00:12:50he's crushed the Tibetans, destroyed their temples,

00:12:53and the Tibetan girl lifts the flag of the Dalai Lama.

00:12:56They throw her in prison and abuse her.

00:12:58A million Muslim Uyghurs are thrown into camps, their beards cut off,

00:13:02their language and religion destroyed.

00:13:04Hong Kong, a beacon of democracy in Asia, extinguished in the past few years.

00:13:08Newspaper owner Jimmy Lai, in his 70s, a Christian, serious, principled man,

00:13:16very wealthy, could have left Hong Kong, said,

00:13:18I'm staying on the ship, I'm staying on the ship.

00:13:20And he's sitting in prison in his late 70s, in a solitary confinement.

00:13:25This China is afraid that if there be one word said at the United Nations,

00:13:30it could shake things.

00:13:32Of course, their people are brainwashed,

00:13:34their people don't get to see discussions like we're having now,

00:13:37they don't know what happened at Tiananmen Square.

00:13:39But if the United Nations were to say something, it has a ripple effect.

00:13:43And so they invest enormous amount of capital, diplomatic resources, economic resources,

00:13:49to push that no resolution will ever happen, no commission of inquiry,

00:13:54no special rapporteur appointed.

00:13:56Because if there were such a thing, it can build a movement.

00:14:01Why did Iran send assassins to go and kill a small woman, physical stature, not in moral stature,

00:14:11named Masi Alinajad?

00:14:12She's a journalist, a women's rights activist, living in Brooklyn, New York, grew up in Iran,

00:14:17grew up in a very religious upbringing, Islamic, in a small town in Iran,

00:14:22where from the age of seven, you're obliged to hide your hair with a hijab.

00:14:26She could never feel the wind in her hair.

00:14:29And as she became older, she began to speak out.

00:14:31She was a journalist.

00:14:32She was told, you have to go into exile, it's too dangerous,

00:14:36because she's asking questions about the regime.

00:14:38And she became, in exile in London, in New York,

00:14:41the leading women's rights activist for Iran,

00:14:43encouraging women to go in the countryside, take off the hijab, be free.

00:14:48And she sparked a movement.

00:14:49She had a million followers on the internet,

00:14:51called the My Stealthy Freedom Facebook page and other platforms.

00:14:56And the movement she sparked became the Women Life Freedom Movement.

00:14:59Of course, it was in reaction immediately.

00:15:01The proximate cause was Masa Amini,

00:15:04a young Kurdish Iranian woman who came to Tehran,

00:15:07was wearing a hijab, but had improper hijab.

00:15:10It wasn't 100%.

00:15:11They arrested her, she was beaten, and she died in prison.

00:15:15That sparked a movement.

00:15:16But Masi Alinajad was really the force behind it.

00:15:18The Iranian regime, two years ago, sent assassins, hired assassins.

00:15:24I think they got a half a million dollars.

00:15:25It was, I think they were an Azerbaijani criminal gang of professional hitmen.

00:15:31Went to Brooklyn, one guy with a Kalachnikov in his car,

00:15:36with instructions on where to find her house.

00:15:38They were surveilling her for, I don't know, months.

00:15:41And I was just in New York, two weeks ago,

00:15:44at the trial in downtown New York, lower Manhattan.

00:15:48where I saw the assassin in the courtroom.

00:15:51And I was there when they swore in the jury.

00:15:54And after two weeks of the trial, they were convicted.

00:15:57Convicted for trying to assassinate Masi Alinajad.

00:16:00Why did they try to kill this little woman?

00:16:01She has no guns.

00:16:02She has no tanks.

00:16:03You know, there's a story.

00:16:04I'm giving you a long answer, but I think it's important.

00:16:06Then I'll stop.

00:16:07Yeah.

00:16:07We love the long answer.

00:16:08Good.

00:16:08We're in a podcast.

00:16:09This is week.

00:16:09I only get 90 seconds at the UN.

00:16:11Here we can talk about deeper things.

00:16:13So there's a quote.

00:16:15It may be apocryphal.

00:16:20Maybe the quote never happened, but it could have happened.

00:16:23Stalin was reportedly told,

00:16:25did you hear you've been criticized by the pope?

00:16:28And Stalin's response was, the pope?

00:16:30And how many divisions does he have?

00:16:32How many military divisions does he have?

00:16:35Why do I care about the pope?

00:16:36Well, actually, we know Pope John Paul.

00:16:39His words helped bring down the Soviet Union and others.

00:16:44And Masi Alinajad, how many divisions does she have?

00:16:46This little woman with nice curly hair and a magnificent voice and a brilliant mind.

00:16:51She has no divisions.

00:16:53She has no divisions.

00:16:54And yet the Iranian regime repeatedly has sent assassins to kill her.

00:16:58One in another operation, also intercepted by the Americans.

00:17:01They sent a team that was going to kidnap her, bring her from New York in a speedboat to Venezuela,

00:17:07and from Venezuela, bring her to Iran.

00:17:09In another operation, they tried to get her family to lure her into the region where they would kidnap her.

00:17:15They put her brother in prison for a couple of years to punish her.

00:17:20Her words are shaking the regime.

00:17:22And so words, if used properly, when the United Nations is working properly,

00:17:28they could use words to shake the regime of Xi Jinping, to shake the Ayatollahs.

00:17:32Sadly, too often, they do the opposite.

00:17:36China is elected always to the Human Rights Council.

00:17:39When America, two, three years ago, tried to bring a resolution about the Uyghurs,

00:17:45it was shot down, it was voted down.

00:17:47And the Islamic regime in Iran was made a member of the Women's Rights Commission.

00:17:53We led the campaign to reverse it.

00:17:56First, they laughed at us around the world.

00:17:58It was in the news, but people said, there's no procedure.

00:18:01How can you remove Iran?

00:18:02There's no procedure.

00:18:03I said, you know, I used to be a lawyer.

00:18:05And based on my profound legal knowledge,

00:18:08the same body that elected them can unelect them.

00:18:12The 54-Nation Economic and Social Council, one of the key organs of the United Nations.

00:18:18That's the body that elects.

00:18:19Actually, they're having elections today.

00:18:21I don't know.

00:18:21But they elect the members of the different commissions.

00:18:24Not the Human Rights Council anymore.

00:18:25They used to.

00:18:26But to the Commission on the Status of Women,

00:18:29the Commission Against Crime, different commissions.

00:18:31It's the 54-Nation Economic and Social Council.

00:18:34I said, the same body that met and elected Iran to this body

00:18:38can meet and say we hereby end, terminate.

00:18:41So I, using my profound legal knowledge,

00:18:44I drafted a resolution of a few paragraphs.

00:18:47Whereas Iran was elected to the Commission on the Status of Women.

00:18:50Whereas Iran is currently beating, blinding, torturing, poisoning, and raping women

00:18:55who dare to stand up for their human rights.

00:18:58Whereas, whereas, we hereby terminate the membership of the Islamic Republic of Iran

00:19:02on the Commission on the Status of Women.

00:19:04I drafted it.

00:19:05Initially, it went nowhere.

00:19:06We're talking 2021.

00:19:08This was the Biden administration.

00:19:10They said, we're trying to, they didn't say this,

00:19:12but they were asked in a press conference,

00:19:14do you condemn the election of Iran?

00:19:15And the spokesman in the State Department said,

00:19:18look, it's true that sometimes some governments get elected

00:19:23that we don't agree with, and it's not very nice.

00:19:26But the journalist said, I'm asking you,

00:19:27yesterday, they elected the Islamic Republic of Iran

00:19:30to the Women's Rights Commission.

00:19:31Do you condemn this?

00:19:32Listen, sometimes certain countries, vague, why?

00:19:35The Biden administration was trying to negotiate the, a new nuclear deal with Iran.

00:19:43And they didn't want to make trouble.

00:19:45So they didn't say anything.

00:19:45But when the Women's Life Freedom Movement happened,

00:19:48mass protests, thousands shot at, injured, arrested, killed, beaten, raped, in prison.

00:19:54And it changed.

00:19:56And the United States picked up this campaign and wrote a draft.

00:20:01They convened the Economic and Social Council in an emergency meeting that never happened before.

00:20:06And if I'm not mistaken, December 2022,

00:20:08America put in a resolution saying, we hereby terminate the membership.

00:20:12Iran objected.

00:20:12Russia said, you can't do this.

00:20:14There's no procedure.

00:20:15It passed.

00:20:16Iran was removed.

00:20:16Great answer.

00:20:19Let's talk a little bit about Gaza.

00:20:22A few minutes ago, you used the word brainwash.

00:20:24Do you think it is what UN's agency in Gaza, UNRWA, does with the people, with the Palestinians there?

00:20:33Sadly, yes.

00:20:35You know, UNRWA began with noble intentions.

00:20:37The Americans were one of the founders, with France and others, of UNRWA, the UN Relief and Works Agency.

00:20:47The initial goal was to be noble.

00:20:52There was a war in 1948.

00:20:54The UN voted on November 29, 1947, to partition what was British Mandatory Palestine into two states,

00:21:01a Jewish state and an Arab state.

00:21:05And the Jews rejoiced.

00:21:06They danced that night, the night of November 29th in Tel Aviv and in Jerusalem.

00:21:11For the first time in 2,000 years, the Jewish people would suddenly have sovereignty, independence, self-determination again.

00:21:18And this is right after the Holocaust, where Jews had nowhere to escape to.

00:21:22The world was divided into two parts, a place where Jews could not live and places where Jews could not go to.

00:21:30And now there would be a state of Israel where Jews could finally have a home

00:21:33and to express their identity, their culture, their values, their history in a national, sovereign way.

00:21:40And the Arabs declared war.

00:21:43They said, no, no, there's no partition.

00:21:46There is no Jewish state on one centimeter.

00:21:48Not one centimeter of Islamic land can be a Jewish state.

00:21:52And so they declared war.

00:21:53Five Arab nations invaded the moment the British left in May 1948.

00:21:57Immediately, five Arab nations, Egypt from the south, which came up almost into Jerusalem, into the outskirts of Jerusalem.

00:22:05Egypt, the army came.

00:22:06Syria invaded Jordan with Iraqi help.

00:22:10And the other Arab states were helping them.

00:22:12And they lost.

00:22:13They managed to kill 6,000 Jews, which was 1% of the Jewish population at the time.

00:22:19But they lost.

00:22:20And hundreds of thousands of Arabs were displaced in the war.

00:22:25They wound up in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon.

00:22:28And UNRWA was supposed to help them.

00:22:30America said, let's help them start a new life.

00:22:32It was a very easy thing to accomplish if there was a will.

00:22:39Well, the Arabs who were living in northern Palestine went a little bit north, maybe 50 miles north, in Lebanon.

00:22:47It's the same language, Arabic.

00:22:49The same religion, Islam.

00:22:51The same culture.

00:22:52Very easy to integrate and start a new life.

00:22:55The same in Jordan and Syria.

00:22:57But they said, no.

00:22:58If we agree that we are starting a new life, it means we accept the war is over.

00:23:03And we accept the Jewish state.

00:23:05We cannot accept this.

00:23:06The jihad that was declared is still on.

00:23:08So we do not accept that we have a new life.

00:23:10Anyone who builds something permanent for us, we refuse to accept.

00:23:14We are going back.

00:23:16And there is no Jewish state.

00:23:18And the Americans realized that it was failing.

00:23:20They brought in the head of the Tennessee Valley Development Authority,

00:23:25who had redeveloped millions of people in America in a huge area to do the same for the Palestinian Arabs.

00:23:32But they refused.

00:23:34They said they're only temporary and they're going to go back.

00:23:37And then UNRWA became pathological.

00:23:41Instead of UNHCR, right next to my office in Geneva, which is dedicated to resettling refugees,

00:23:48you were a refugee in Syria.

00:23:50We find you a home in Canada, in Sweden.

00:23:53You have a new home, a new life.

00:23:55Refugees from Sudan, refugees from Ukraine.

00:23:57The mission of UNHCR, the High Commission of Refugees, is to resettle you so you are no longer a refugee.

00:24:05UNRWA is the opposite.

00:24:07Which doesn't make any sense, but UNRWA is the opposite.

00:24:09After 70 years of receiving more than $7 billion, primarily Western donors, the United States, Germany, France, Sweden, Canada, Australia,

00:24:19primarily Western donors, not a single Palestinian has been resettled.

00:24:24The opposite.

00:24:25What you asked me.

00:24:26In school they are taught.

00:24:27Schools in Gaza, schools in Lebanon, schools in Jordan, they are taught.

00:24:30They have a right of return, a right of return, which sounds lovely, rights must be good.

00:24:36But in their language, that is translated to violence.

00:24:40And what happened on October 7th for them is exercising their right of return, killing Israelis to dismantle Israel.

00:24:48And we're paying for it.

00:24:49Just explain, schools that are run by UNRWA, right?

00:24:54Yes.

00:24:54By the United Nations.

00:24:56Yes.

00:24:56Is UNRWA still doing any job in the Gaza Strip, and are there discussions to replace it?

00:25:04Yes.

00:25:04So first of all, I'll talk about the schools and the discussion.

00:25:07So the schools, there's a debate.

00:25:10UNRWA says, no, it's not true.

00:25:11We teach them universal human rights, UN values.

00:25:14Well, they say, some groups say, well, look at the textbooks.

00:25:19They use the local textbooks, which could be a Syrian textbook.

00:25:23It could be the PLO, Palestinian textbook.

00:25:25And they have a lot of incitement.

00:25:26They have pictures of terrorists.

00:25:28They could be learning mathematics or something.

00:25:30And the examples are about how to kill Israelis, things like that.

00:25:33We're celebrating famous terrorists.

00:25:36And there's a big debate about the textbooks.

00:25:38My organization, UN Watch, we did not look at the textbooks.

00:25:41We looked at who are the teachers.

00:25:43What do they post on social media, right?

00:25:44Who are the teachers?

00:25:46And how do I know the teachers?

00:25:47Like you said, I'm sitting in Geneva.

00:25:49I type in UNRWA on Facebook.

00:25:51And you see, the guy says, I work for UNRWA.

00:25:53So it pops up.

00:25:55And you click on his page.

00:25:56And you see the pictures of him or her with the students in their school in Gaza, in Lebanon.

00:26:02And you understand who their life is.

00:26:04No hacking, just tapping in.

00:26:06And you see Elham Mansour, teacher.

00:26:09She says, I work for UNRWA.

00:26:10You see her with the students.

00:26:11And you see her posting, by Allah, we must slaughter all the Jews and all the Israelis.

00:26:16This is the obligation.

00:26:17In the name of Allah, every Muslim must do it.

00:26:19And she's a teacher.

00:26:20The textbook might be the Constitution of Brazil.

00:26:23The textbook might be the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

00:26:26The textbook might be the Ten Commandments.

00:26:28But if the teacher is Elham Mansour, I know what the students are learning and what their message is.

00:26:33The teacher who was the head of all the teachers, the head of the teachers' union, his name is Fatih Sharif.

00:26:42He was a teacher.

00:26:43He was the principal of a major school outside of Tyre, Lebanon.

00:26:48And he was head of the teachers' union of 2,000 teachers.

00:26:51We went on his Facebook page.

00:26:52For the past 10 years, every second day, he posts a picture of Hamas terror attacks saying,

00:26:57Allahu Akbar.

00:26:58God is great.

00:26:59This is amazing.

00:27:00He posts pictures of the founders of Hamas, like Sheikh Hassan Yusuf.

00:27:05He posts pictures on other community websites.

00:27:08They have a community website.

00:27:10When he makes a wedding for his sons, he made two weddings, they celebrate.

00:27:14And in the front row are the leaders of Hamas and the Jihad.

00:27:18And they're all taking pictures with him.

00:27:19So clearly, he's some kind of Hamas figure.

00:27:22And we sent in to the UN the dossier, 100 pages.

00:27:27And they said, yeah, it's true.

00:27:29Last year, Israel made a complaint.

00:27:31And apparently, Israel made a complaint.

00:27:33And he was suspended, not fired.

00:27:35And so the UN said, we took action.

00:27:37I said, no, no, no.

00:27:38For 10 years, at least, he was posting about this.

00:27:41You didn't do anything.

00:27:42You gave him a certificate of appreciation.

00:27:44The director of UNRWA in Lebanon, whose name is an Italian name.

00:27:49He was the head of Amnesty International for a period in London.

00:27:53I'm forgetting his name.

00:27:55Claudio Cordone was the director of UNRWA, former acting director of Amnesty International,

00:28:01then was the head of UNRWA in Lebanon.

00:28:03He's shaking hands with Fatih Sharif, giving him a certificate.

00:28:06Wallah, a certificate of appreciation.

00:28:08Even though every day he's posting on Facebook, and his Facebook friends are all UNRWA people,

00:28:14that he's supporting Hamas.

00:28:16So UNRWA said, yeah, we suspended him.

00:28:18He said, no, no, you have to fire him.

00:28:20They wouldn't fire him.

00:28:22Actually, thousands of UNRWA staff made a strike for months.

00:28:27From February, March 2024 until the end of May, UNRWA teachers were striking,

00:28:33saying the great patriot, Fatih Sharif, they suspended him.

00:28:37This is wrong.

00:28:38So they shut down UNRWA.

00:28:40Philippe Lazzarini, the head of UNRWA, flew to Beirut in the end of May 2024.

00:28:46He met with the prime minister of Lebanon.

00:28:48He said, you have to help me.

00:28:49The protesters, which, but the protesters were not Fatah.

00:28:53That's the secular faction that runs the Palestinian Authority under Mahmoud Abbas.

00:28:58They didn't call the strike.

00:29:00The strike was called by a group of the hardline groups.

00:29:05Hamas, the jihad, the Islamic jihad, and other groups, they called the strike.

00:29:10And Mr. Lazzarini told the Lebanese prime minister, please help me.

00:29:13They're shutting down UNRWA in Lebanon, the schools, the clinics.

00:29:16And then he had a meeting with the hardline factions, with Hamas, Islamic jihad.

00:29:22On June 1st, they put out a statement.

00:29:25And they said, we met with Mr. Lazzarini.

00:29:28And he promised us that things will be okay with Mr. Fatih Sharif.

00:29:32There will be a satisfactory result.

00:29:34And therefore, the strike is over.

00:29:36Beginning on Monday, June 3rd, we hereby declare the strike is over.

00:29:39And Lazzarini says, no, no, I, I, he was asked by a journalist.

00:29:43He said, no, no, I told them, stop.

00:29:45But that's not what they wrote.

00:29:45They wrote, he promised us there will be a satisfactory result.

00:29:48Indeed, he was never fired.

00:29:50And in the end of September, Fatih Sharif, justice, was delivered to him on his second floor apartment.

00:29:56A missile entered, an IDF missile, right into his apartment.

00:29:59And he was eliminated from this world.

00:30:02And he went up to Islamic heaven.

00:30:04And on that day, Hamas declared, Israel killed our leader.

00:30:09What?

00:30:10Hamas declared that Fatih Sharif, we knew he was some kind of official, but they said he was our leader.

00:30:15And they said he was a great man.

00:30:17They put videos of him meeting Ismail Haniyeh, the former leader of Hamas, who also went to heaven.

00:30:24When he was eliminated in Tehran, when he was visiting in a villa, he was eliminated by Israel.

00:30:30And they said Fatih Sharif was the leader of Hamas.

00:30:32So we learn that the head of Unruh Teachers Union was the head of Hamas.

00:30:37And he said, Philippe Lazarin, he was asked.

00:30:38He said, well, I didn't know.

00:30:40Didn't know.

00:30:41Didn't know, but he was posting every second day.

00:30:44We have a report coming out.

00:30:47I actually have it in my bag.

00:30:48I didn't, but it's fine.

00:30:49It'll come out in a few weeks with the whole story of Fatih Sharif.

00:30:53We've already put some on our website, unwatch.org, but we're going to have a 250-page report on Fatih Sharif and the fact that even though he's been eliminated, his acolytes from Hamas are still in place running the Teachers Union.

00:31:07Copy-paste, same in Gaza.

00:31:09Same in Gaza.

00:31:10The head of the entire staff union was Suel al-Hindi, an elected member of the Hamas Politburo, elected member of the Hamas Politburo.

00:31:19He was the chair of the protests, the riots, the violent riots that Hamas did leading up to, you may remember, for about four or five years, every Friday they would go up to the fence, to the border fence with Israel, and they would riot and throw rocks and gunshots.

00:31:39And Israel was responding, shooting at them.

00:31:43This was going on for several years.

00:31:45And this was kind of their way of precursor to October 7th.

00:31:49You'd go up to the border fence and you have thousands, so you see where the cameras are, how does Israel respond.

00:31:55Over several years, Hamas developed an enormous amount of intelligence of how Israel, how the fence worked.

00:32:01Suel al-Hindi, the former ANRA teacher for 29 years, school principal, head of the entire staff union, he was the chair of these March of Return protests.

00:32:15And today he's a leading Hamas spokesman, now based out of Turkey.

00:32:19He's interviewed in the media, a Hamas spokesman, and he was the head of ANRA in Gaza of the union.

00:32:25But now we have a different situation there, because Palestinians are protesting against Hamas.

00:32:31And you talked about this in a UN meeting at the Human Rights Council.

00:32:36You said that people were ignoring this.

00:32:40Yes.

00:32:40They are not worried about the Palestinians.

00:32:44How do you describe what's happening there?

00:32:46Because of Israel's reaction, people are noticing that they can't speak now because Hamas is weak.

00:32:53But there is retaliation, yes.

00:32:56Yes, it was shocking.

00:32:57It was March 26th, so last week.

00:33:00I was speaking at the United Nations Human Rights Council, and I can see on the screen, in Gaza, they're shouting,

00:33:08down, Hamas, out.

00:33:10And we put the video, and I think you reproduced it on your website, of a split screen.

00:33:13In Gaza, on the ground, on that same day, thousands are marching in Beit Lahia, in Shajaya, in Gaza City, saying,

00:33:20down with Hamas, which they hadn't done very much because you get crushed.

00:33:25But as Hamas is weaker, and as they're suffering because Hamas refuses to end the war,

00:33:29if Hamas surrenders today, releases more than 50 hostages who are being tortured, humiliated, abused, starved,

00:33:36because the war ends.

00:33:38But Hamas does not want the war to end, and they want to keep torturing the hostages.

00:33:41And people in Gaza say, enough.

00:33:44Now, do these people in Gaza love Israel?

00:33:47No.

00:33:47If Hamas was winning, would they say anything?

00:33:50I don't know.

00:33:51You know, the Germans, at 1945, at some point, when you lose and you're starved,

00:33:57then you speak out and you denounce.

00:34:00But until then, you know, I don't think they're necessarily lovers of Zion, these protesters,

00:34:06but I give them credit because, as you said, Hamas is beginning to retaliate.

00:34:10There was a story in the free press about one of the leaders of these anti-Hamas protests

00:34:16that they killed him.

00:34:17They mutilated his body and threw him off a roof with a note saying,

00:34:21this is what happens to anyone who dares to defy Hamas.

00:34:24Odai Nasser Al-something.

00:34:27Yeah.

00:34:28Odai, the name.

00:34:29Yeah, but it's a very...

00:34:3022 years old.

00:34:31A very interesting development, and the world didn't seem to care.

00:34:36The international community, the United Nations, all they did was attack Israel.

00:34:40So on the ground in Gaza, out with Hamas.

00:34:43Hamas is ruining our lives in the United Nations.

00:34:45Israel's committing crimes, condemn Israel, one country after another, after another.

00:34:49And that's why I said, indeed, I recalled what I had said in 2014.

00:34:53This is not a council that is pro-human rights.

00:34:55You claim to speak in the name of human rights,

00:34:57but actually the human rights of Gazans, you don't care about.

00:35:00Human rights of Muslims in China, you don't care about.

00:35:03Human rights of Muslim minorities in Pakistan, you don't care about.

00:35:06You don't care about human rights, you don't even care about Muslims.

00:35:09You don't even care about Palestinians in Gaza.

00:35:10You only care if you can blame Israel.

00:35:13You're not pro-human rights.

00:35:14You're anti-Israel.

00:35:16Yeah, it's precise.

00:35:17Duda.

00:35:17Hello.

00:35:18You are against the reappointment of Francesca Albanese to the Human Rights Council, right?

00:35:25Can you explain who she is and why you are against a new term for her?

00:35:30Sure.

00:35:31So the Human Rights Council is a body of 47 member states.

00:35:36Every other country is in the room.

00:35:38They just don't vote.

00:35:39They speak.

00:35:40They debate.

00:35:40They can introduce a text, but they don't vote.

00:35:43Brazil is one of the 47 members.

00:35:45So that's the Human Rights Council.

00:35:4647 members, they meet, they discuss, they debate, they adopt resolutions.

00:35:51As we discussed, the resolutions don't impact immediately on the ground, but over time, they

00:35:56can have an impact on our culture.

00:35:59They can grant international legitimacy in a good way or in a bad way.

00:36:04The case of Albanese is a case of international legitimacy being used in a bad way.

00:36:08Someone who has said statements like when there was the Bataclan terrorist attack in Paris in

00:36:162015, on her Facebook page, Francesca Albanese, who is a legal academic based in, who grew

00:36:24up in Italy in a small town outside of Napoli called Ariano Irpino in the province of Avellino.

00:36:32And she grew up and she worked for UNRWA, surprise, surprise, for two or three years.

00:36:36And she hates Israel and she says it openly.

00:36:39Israel is the worst country in the world and anything you can imagine you can blame on

00:36:44Israel.

00:36:45When there were fires in Los Angeles recently, she found a way to blame Israel.

00:36:48I don't remember what the connection was, but somehow she said, yeah, it's because of

00:36:53this and that and therefore Israel's guilty.

00:36:55So, you know, it's like in the Islamic world, people will tell you, my friend Loui Ahmed,

00:37:00who grew up in Yemen, who spoke for us at the Human Rights Council several weeks ago,

00:37:04he asked, I see the flag of Palestine.

00:37:05Where's the flag of Yemen?

00:37:06500,000 of my people are starving and have no food and the Houthis are spending our money

00:37:11to attack Israel thousands of miles away.

00:37:13Where's the flag of Yemen and where's the flag of Syria?

00:37:15Loui Ahmed told me, he said, in Yemen, we were taught in the mosque that anything bad

00:37:19that's happening to you, it's blaming it on the Jews.

00:37:21And we know in Somalia from Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the brilliant and courageous Somali lady who

00:37:28made her way to the Netherlands, managed to become an elected member of parliament in the Netherlands,

00:37:32and they didn't like her because she dared to call out the radicalism of fanatical Islam.

00:37:37She made them uncomfortable and she had to leave the Netherlands, move to America.

00:37:42She made, I don't know if she lives in America now or the UK, but a courageous woman.

00:37:46When I heard her speak, she once spoke to the American Jewish Committee annual conference in 2006.

00:37:50And she said this, this is a tall, elegant, black Somali woman.

00:37:55She said, I have to apologize to you.

00:37:57I never met you, but I have to apologize to you.

00:38:00Why?

00:38:01Because I was taught, growing up in Somalia, when we didn't have water in the village,

00:38:05the Jews destroyed our water.

00:38:07If we didn't have electricity, the Jews.

00:38:08And that's how she brought up.

00:38:09Francesca Albanese is someone of this category.

00:38:12So she has said, when the Bataclan terrorist attack happened by ISIS,

00:38:16she said, she shared an article saying that the Mossad and Israel were somehow behind it.

00:38:22She announced on her Facebook page in 2014, there was a war between,

00:38:26we talked about the war between Israel and Hamas.

00:38:29She wrote to her town priest, actually sort of the acting bishop,

00:38:33his name is Antonio Blundo, her family's priest.

00:38:37And she wrote, caro Don Antonio, dear Don Antonio,

00:38:40Israel is killing the Palestinians, it's horrible, da-da-da-da-da.

00:38:44And you know, America is subjugated by the Jewish lobby.

00:38:49So the Jewish lobby is subjugating America,

00:38:51and Europe is subjugated by Holocaust guilt.

00:38:54So these are openly classical anti-Semitic motifs.

00:38:58The Jews control America, that's what Hitler was always saying,

00:39:01the Jews control Churchill, the Jews control Roosevelt.

00:39:04And she was appointed as a UN expert.

00:39:07The international legitimacy was obscenely given to this kind of a person.

00:39:14And she's used it in the past three years.

00:39:16Her title is Special Rapporteur on Palestine, which means an investigator.

00:39:20Her job is to investigate Israel's violations.

00:39:24So even the job itself has guilt presumed in advance.

00:39:29There are 15 other monitors on countries.

00:39:32There's one on North Korea.

00:39:33There's one on Haiti.

00:39:35It's to look at the human rights situation.

00:39:38Sometimes in Sudan, they had our Special Rapporteur.

00:39:41The regime is doing terrible things.

00:39:42Sometimes the rebels do terrible things.

00:39:44Her mandate from the Human Rights Council, written in February 1993,

00:39:48it's inherited from the old Human Rights Commission,

00:39:51is to investigate, not human rights, but to investigate Israel's violations.

00:39:55That's the mandate.

00:39:56And they picked someone who is obsessed with comparing Israelis to Nazis,

00:40:01which sadly your president did the same, but she's obsessed with doing this.

00:40:04And they deliberately chose her.

00:40:06And in the past three years, she repeatedly says the Palestinian violence,

00:40:10they have no choice.

00:40:11They have no choice, which to me is the most racist thing.

00:40:14When you don't give people agency,

00:40:16when you say someone who's poor or is a particular ethnic thing,

00:40:21and because of who they are, they have no choice.

00:40:23They must be violent.

00:40:24That, to me, is racist.

00:40:26We are individual human beings endowed with intelligence and agency.

00:40:32And Palestinians don't have to choose violence.

00:40:34And I met Rami Amman from Gaza, who said,

00:40:36I want peace with Israelis.

00:40:38I have complaints, but I want peace with Israelis.

00:40:40Hamas threw them in prison.

00:40:42There is a choice, but she is empowering Hamas.

00:40:44So she said repeatedly from the day she was appointed,

00:40:48she took office on May 1, 2022.

00:40:50She said, Palestinian violence is inevitable.

00:40:52They have no choice.

00:40:53She told a Hamas conference, you have the right to resist.

00:40:56November 2022, a year before the massacre,

00:40:59you have the right to resist.

00:41:00She's wearing the crown of a UN expert.

00:41:03Yeah, we call it moral legitimation of the crime.

00:41:07You use the word category.

00:41:10Which one's the Antonio Guterres category?

00:41:14Because he comes from Portugal's socialist party.

00:41:17Is he the same as Albanese?

00:41:20What's different?

00:41:20Because he also demonized Israel, right?

00:41:23He did.

00:41:24You know, certainly after October 7th, he is worse than ever before.

00:41:29Only a few weeks after the massacre, he told the United Nations,

00:41:32yes, I condemn Hamas, yes.

00:41:34But, he said, these attacks did not happen in a vacuum.

00:41:38And he went on to enumerate one alleged Palestinian grievance after another,

00:41:44effectively saying, they had no choice.

00:41:46It's a natural reaction.

00:41:48Israel provoked it.

00:41:49They brought it upon themselves, which is a horrific thing to say.

00:41:53And part of what he said is true.

00:41:55Hamas attacks did not happen in a vacuum.

00:41:58Nothing happens in a vacuum.

00:41:59You and I, we woke up today and we went about our business.

00:42:04Nothing we said or did came in a vacuum.

00:42:07We're influenced by our friends, our family, our environment, our education.

00:42:10Had Mr. Guterres said, nothing happens in a vacuum,

00:42:14why did thousands of Palestinian Hamas Nukba terrorists invade Israel,

00:42:18break the ceasefire, go into communities that are farmer communities,

00:42:22kibbutzim, which are sort of communes, which are on the left, very peace-oriented.

00:42:28These are the activists who live in these kibbutzim,

00:42:31these old ladies who would go to the border with Gaza,

00:42:34bring Gazans into Tel Aviv hospitals to help them.

00:42:37Why did thousands of Hamas terrorists and Gazan civilians from Gaza

00:42:41cross over into Israel, massacre families in front of other family members,

00:42:46wearing a GoPro, do the most horrific atrocities?

00:42:49Why did they do that?

00:42:50What schools did they go to?

00:42:53What schools did they go to?

00:42:54According to Johann Sufi, I debated him on France Info in Paris in March of last year,

00:43:00a year ago, and he told me.

00:43:02He said 90% of Gazans went to UNRWA schools.

00:43:0690% of Gazans are graduates of UNRWA schools.

00:43:09Nothing happens in a vacuum.

00:43:11Where did they go to school, Mr. Guterres?

00:43:13Your schools, Mr. Guterres, you taught them.

00:43:16You taught them.

00:43:17Where is your home?

00:43:18We see this on video.

00:43:19Where is your home, they asked the Palestinian child.

00:43:22In Gaza?

00:43:23No, not in Gaza.

00:43:24Where?

00:43:24In Haifa and tell you, that's my home.

00:43:26So when they were given billions of dollars in cement to build homes, hospitals and schools,

00:43:33they were taught in UN schools, in Mr. Guterres' schools, that their home is there in Israel.

00:43:39So they used the cement to build hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of kilometers of terror tunnels,

00:43:45all what they learned from UN schools.

00:43:48Do you see any similarities between the conflict in Gaza and in Ukraine and the repercussion about it?

00:43:54Well, what we see is an unprovoked assault.

00:43:59On one day, suddenly, Mr. Putin took masses of Russian armor and troops and invaded Ukraine,

00:44:07violating international law.

00:44:08Hamas suddenly, one day, armed and trained by Islamic Republic of Iran,

00:44:13acting in concert with Hezbollah, which, of course, attacked the day after on October 8th,

00:44:19suddenly invaded Israel and sent rockets, killing Israelis.

00:44:22And Vladimir Putin does the same.

00:44:25We don't see the identical level of atrocity, of horrific torturing to the same level that Hamas did.

00:44:36But, obviously, we're seeing massive killing by Russia, massive killing by Iranian-trained Hamas.

00:44:42And, of course, Iran and Russia work together.

00:44:44Iran is also arming Russia, sending them drones, which have become a very important part of the Russian arsenal.

00:44:51Certainly that we see.

00:44:52In terms of the world reaction, we don't see the same world reaction.

00:44:55Many people in liberal America suddenly became kind of almost Churchillian, or certainly like Roosevelt.

00:45:02They said, this is a just war.

00:45:04We must defeat Russia.

00:45:06And many journalists in America and activists put the Ukrainian flag in their profile.

00:45:11Not so many people are putting the Israeli flag in their profile, even though this is equally a just war and facing assault on all sides.

00:45:22And that's something that's unfortunate.

00:45:24Not as many people recognize the just war that Israel is fighting against Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, the Islamic regime in Iran, the Shiite militias in Iraq.

00:45:34I think this is a just war, and the West, as they stand with Ukraine, should be standing with Israel.

00:45:41Hileo, how do you see the declarations of Lula about the Ukraine war or the war between Israel and Hamas?

00:45:50And do you think it matters for the rest of the world?

00:45:53Why don't you remind your audience of some of these statements?

00:45:56That would be useful.

00:45:57Lula said it was a genocide happening in the Gaza Strip.

00:46:00Yes.

00:46:01And Lula, Vladimir Zelensky, he wanted the war, right?

00:46:07Or he doesn't want to end the war, right?

00:46:13He also accused Israel of ethnic cleaning.

00:46:18Yes, cleansing.

00:46:18Cleansing, yeah.

00:46:20So he's spouting the Hamas propaganda and the Vladimir Putin propaganda.

00:46:27Exactly.

00:46:27Exactly, yeah.

00:46:28So look, Brazil's an important country.

00:46:31It's a leading country in South America.

00:46:34It has an impact on the world.

00:46:37People look to it as a voice from the global south.

00:46:40And we expect them to stand up for victims, whether it's the hundreds of Israelis who were taken from their homes,

00:46:48whether little babies or Holocaust survivor grandparents thrown into the dungeons of Gaza.

00:46:53You'd expect someone who claims to speak for the people, for the downtrodden, to identify with them.

00:46:59You'd expect him to identify with the victims in Ukraine.

00:47:02And not doing so is betraying the social cause that he claims to speak for.

00:47:07And that's something that should be condemned by everyone.

00:47:10And I hope the people of Brazil recognize that.

00:47:13Do you see any difference about Biden government and Trump government in relation with Israel?

00:47:20With Israel, yes, there is a difference.

00:47:22I mean, Biden had mixed messages.

00:47:25His initial reaction after the war was incredible.

00:47:28He 100% moral clarity.

00:47:30He flew to Israel.

00:47:31He said there are times in this world when pure, unadulterated evil is unleashed upon this world.

00:47:39That is what Hamas did.

00:47:40And his initial reaction, he embraced Israel.

00:47:43He sent in aircraft carriers to the region to deter Hezbollah and Iran.

00:47:48And that was incredible.

00:47:50Over time, however, we saw different actions.

00:47:53Yes, the United States continued to send arms to Israel to defend itself.

00:47:57But always with caveats at various times, they slowed down the arms.

00:48:02At various times, they said Israel shouldn't do this.

00:48:04They told Israel, don't go into Gaza.

00:48:07Don't go into Rafa.

00:48:08Rafa was where Yahya Sinoir was.

00:48:11To defeat the—to win a war, you have to defeat the morale of that country.

00:48:16And as long as Yahya Sinoir was alive, they had the morale.

00:48:19When he was killed, it was a game changer.

00:48:21Hamas is still there.

00:48:22They're still a threat.

00:48:23They're still tragically holding the hostages, torturing them.

00:48:26But the people of Gaza understood that Hamas was defeated and, in part, that Israel had

00:48:33to go into Rafa.

00:48:34Israel—you can't win a war if you're not on the ground.

00:48:37You know, Israel thought wrongly that they could use their air force and do brilliant

00:48:41attacks, but Hamas was all underground.

00:48:43They were in their bunkers, deep underground, and there was no way to root them out if you

00:48:48don't go in.

00:48:49And Biden kept saying, don't go in, don't go in.

00:48:51And Israel said, well, we don't have a choice.

00:48:52It was a huge campaign, a world campaign.

00:48:54All eyes on Rafa.

00:48:55And Rafa.

00:48:56Very orchestrated.

00:48:58Yeah.

00:48:58Very orchestrated.

00:48:59Activists, media, campus.

00:49:02And Biden, their message was, don't go in.

00:49:04And Israel understood.

00:49:05They don't want to kill civilians.

00:49:07Hamas is trying to get them to kill civilians.

00:49:09Hamas is embedding themselves under the hospitals, in the homes, in the schools, in the basement

00:49:14of the hospitals.

00:49:15And Israel said, the only way we can do it is we say, we're going to go into that region.

00:49:19All civilians, please leave.

00:49:20And whoever is there will be Hamas terrorist.

00:49:24And the international community, Amnesty International said, ethnic cleansing.

00:49:29Ethnic cleansing?

00:49:31Did anyone tell the people, the Israelis on the border with Gaza who were attacked in the

00:49:38Kibbutzim and the different places, we're going to attack, please leave?

00:49:41No one told them that.

00:49:43That would be a dream.

00:49:44If they had said, leave, go somewhere else, they would have left.

00:49:47But Israel was telling them to leave so they could go after Hamas.

00:49:51And Biden, at repeated occasions, told Israel not to do it.

00:49:55They didn't listen.

00:49:56And thankfully, they were able to achieve a lot by going in.

00:49:59Same in Lebanon.

00:50:00Said, don't go in.

00:50:01So again, was Biden anti-Israel?

00:50:04No.

00:50:04He was a Zionist.

00:50:05He was pro-Israel, but the people around him on the left were feeling the pressure.

00:50:10They were about to have an election.

00:50:12He was told, they're not going to show up at the ballot.

00:50:15In Michigan are all these Arab voters.

00:50:18You're losing Michigan.

00:50:20And his experts told him, you need to criticize Israel.

00:50:23One time he left, he was going for the weekend, and he appeared in front of the camera, and

00:50:28he's holding a big book.

00:50:30It's a book by Rashid Khalidi, some kind of anti-Israel book.

00:50:32And it was obvious, a signal, I'm with you.

00:50:35Kamala Harris was asked about the protesters, and she said, ah, they have a point.

00:50:42You know, so all these signals were being sent at various points that undermined the

00:50:47support for Israel.

00:50:48So yes, he supported Israel, but there were these counter messages.

00:50:51So far from Trump, mostly you get 100% support.

00:50:56Israel has the right to destroy Hamas.

00:50:58Israel has the right to fight back against Iran.

00:51:00That's the general message.

00:51:02It's not perfect.

00:51:03We have his envoy, Steve Witkoff, going to the Qataris, saying we like the Qataris.

00:51:08So, you know, I wouldn't give Trump administration perfect points when it comes to Israel, but

00:51:15certainly the general message is, we have your back.

00:51:18And if you need to go after these horrible terrorists, you have our back.

00:51:21And I hope that President Trump will live up to it.

00:51:23And what do you think it's going to happen in Gaza?

00:51:27Because Benjamin Netanyahu was criticized for having no plan about Gaza.

00:51:32Do you know what's going to happen there?

00:51:33We don't know, and it's hard to make a plan when it's such you have a nihilistic death cult

00:51:39controlling it, and, you know, what happened, you know, after the war, first you need to

00:51:45defeat them.

00:51:45That's clear.

00:51:46I mean, you ask, what happens to Germany after the Nazis?

00:51:49First you need to defeat them.

00:51:51Then you could see what comes next.

00:51:53And the problem is, is that, you know, people say, well, maybe some peacekeepers will come

00:51:57in.

00:51:57And President Trump said he would take it over.

00:52:00Well, you know, he said that, but he didn't mean it sincerely.

00:52:04He's not wrong when he says that Gaza could be a Riviera.

00:52:07It could be.

00:52:07Gaza has beautiful beaches.

00:52:09I was there many years ago.

00:52:10It's white sand, like these dunes of white sand.

00:52:14And it can easily be the French Riviera.

00:52:17It can easily be Tel Aviv, the beautiful Tel Aviv beaches.

00:52:20They have it and more.

00:52:22It's just downstream.

00:52:23It's like an hour down the coast.

00:52:25But Hamas turned it into a factory of death.

00:52:29Instead of acting like Dubai, where they build up, up into the sky, into the future, Hamas

00:52:36is building down, down hundreds of kilometers of terror tunnels into hell.

00:52:40So what will happen with Gaza?

00:52:43American peacekeepers are not going to go in.

00:52:45No American soldiers are going to die in Gaza.

00:52:47And Israel doesn't want them to fight their wars for them.

00:52:50Doesn't want Americans to die for Israel.

00:52:52These Israeli soldiers are willing to die for their country.

00:52:54No Arab from the Emirates or from Saudi is going to risk their lives policing Hamas.

00:53:01Will some of them come in if Hamas is completely disarmed?

00:53:06Maybe.

00:53:07So the short answer is we don't know yet.

00:53:10At the end of the day, we want Palestinians to govern themselves, building towards the future.

00:53:16Gaza could be a beautiful region with millions of tourists.

00:53:20It's up to them.

00:53:21So first thing is Hamas has to be defeated.

00:53:25The hostages have to be released.

00:53:27And then, you know, these protests give some hope.

00:53:29Some people are saying we don't like Hamas.

00:53:32Some people are saying it.

00:53:33Give some hope.

00:53:34Just a few more questions.

00:53:35Duda?

00:53:35Are there also a difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump regarding human rights or how the U.S. is acting in Geneva, for example?

00:53:47I'm sorry.

00:53:47Could you ask again?

00:53:48Are there a difference between how Joe Biden and Donald Trump treats human rights issues?

00:53:55Yes, there's a very big difference.

00:53:57There's a very big difference.

00:53:57I mean, there are two different worldviews.

00:54:00The worldview of Biden's administration was a progressive worldview that, you know, the good part was wanting to intervene on human rights situations, whether it's in Iran, whether it's in Russia.

00:54:16The U.S. was very upfront in confronting Vladimir Putin together with the EU.

00:54:22That was great.

00:54:23And they were outspoken on human rights issues in China and in other countries.

00:54:27Which Trump is not actually doing, right?

00:54:30No.

00:54:30From Putin.

00:54:31No.

00:54:32So certainly, I've talked about Russia.

00:54:33Russia is a particular case where his attitude is the complete opposite.

00:54:38Trump, you know, Biden administration fully supported Zelensky, certainly in their language.

00:54:46Zelensky complained.

00:54:46He said, you didn't give us, you gave us enough to keep going, but not enough to win the war.

00:54:50Okay.

00:54:51Trump, we saw it visibly in the White House.

00:54:53He, you know, fought Zelensky.

00:54:57And before he came, said he's acting like a dictator.

00:55:00So there's a complete different attitude.

00:55:02And Trump says in his defense that he's trying to make peace, and therefore, this is how to do it.

00:55:09We have to see.

00:55:10But I'm someone who works closely with Russian political prisoners who just got out.

00:55:15My friend, Vladimir Karamurza, was thrown into the gulag solitary confinement, was left to die.

00:55:22By a miracle in August, he got out in a prisoner swap.

00:55:26A journalist, right?

00:55:26A journalist.

00:55:27Won the Pulitzer Prize.

00:55:28Filmmaker, historian.

00:55:30Amazing person.

00:55:31So when I see, sorry.

00:55:35No, no, his question about the difference.

00:55:38On human rights.

00:55:39Regarding human rights, yeah.

00:55:40Yeah, so putting Russia aside is a bit of a special case, but you could say it might be emblematic.

00:55:44But Trump is isolationist.

00:55:46I mean, the MAGA movement says, as a general rule, I'm worried about America.

00:55:51I don't care what happens in the rest of the world.

00:55:53You could, in general, the message is, you do what you want.

00:55:56I'm not going to get involved.

00:55:56We'll get involved if our interests are at stake.

00:55:58That is generally the message.

00:56:00Which, from time to time, I mean, Rubio is a secretary of state, but of course that's not his past.

00:56:06That's not his, his worldview was more interventionist.

00:56:10You could say historically more neoconservative, that in the Republican movement, where America is leading in the world and is involved and is fighting against communism.

00:56:20And certainly Rubio has spoken out in the past on many human rights abuses.

00:56:25And recently he spoke out in favor of victims in different places.

00:56:32So we'll see.

00:56:34It could be that Secretary of State Rubio could temper the isolationist tendencies in the way that Nikki Haley did in the past.

00:56:42And I hope that's the case.

00:56:43I don't think isolationism is the right path.

00:56:46America first, sure.

00:56:47But for America to be who it is should stand with the downtrodden around the world.

00:56:53Of course, not compromising America's interests, but America's interests will be affected if communism, dictatorship, oppression, radical Islam take over the world.

00:57:04America will be impacted.

00:57:05So they shouldn't be blind and should stay in the lead.

00:57:08And we still need the free world.

00:57:10And my concern is that Trump is attacking historic alliances, attacking my country, Canada.

00:57:17Some of it seems like a joke, but some of it doesn't.

00:57:20So I'm concerned that he's shaking alliances in a way that are unhelpful.

00:57:24I'm happy that the EU is being pressured to put more money into defense.

00:57:28And Trump is right on some of those things.

00:57:31But it should be to act in concert with the allies and have a strong alliance to push back against the dictatorships.

00:57:37And we are used here to listen to Marco Rubio's critique, to see Rubio criticizing dictatorships because he is from a laden family.

00:57:48So he always criticized Cuban dictatorship, Venezuela.

00:57:53And it's strange to see Marco Rubio in a government which is so soft with Putin, right?

00:58:02So last question.

00:58:03After October the 7th, 2023, we saw, we witnessed a rise of anti-Semitism around the world.

00:58:14And we have Jewish friends in Brazil, and they are worried about it.

00:58:19What would be your message for them?

00:58:22How can we do something in a country to anti-Semitism,

00:58:27don't come back like what happened before the Holocaust?

00:58:32Well, I think the message should be for the general community.

00:58:37Certainly the Jews are alarmed.

00:58:39We've seen in the past year and a half, since October 7th, a tsunami of anti-Semitism.

00:58:44My own country, Canada, where I grew up, was a wonderful country for Jews to grow up in.

00:58:48Yes, there was anti-Semitism here and there, but nothing substantial.

00:58:54What we've seen in the past year and a half,

00:58:55the Jewish school that my brothers went to was shot at twice within one week.

00:59:00The synagogue where I prayed on Shabbat, on Saturday, every week was, had a bullet found in their door.

00:59:07There have been fire bombings in Montreal, in Toronto.

00:59:10Also hundreds of thousands at various times of people,

00:59:13maybe that's too strong amount, but certainly thousands of people protesting on the streets in favor of Hamas.

00:59:22Canada, the demography has changed.

00:59:24There are now about two million Muslims.

00:59:26Some of them, not all, but some of them have been radicalized and support Hamas and Hezbollah,

00:59:30supported by radical left groups.

00:59:32They took over McGill University, where I went to.

00:59:34It's happening now again.

00:59:35These encampments, where Jews are intimidated.

00:59:39They're told Zionists can't come here, which is another way of saying Jews can't go in certain places.

00:59:44And the mayors of Montreal and Toronto didn't really do anything.

00:59:47And the police were holding off.

00:59:48And the message from Justin Trudeau, who was prime minister until recently,

00:59:52was very hesitant, giving them signals.

00:59:54So that happened in the great country of Canada.

00:59:56Australia, very similar.

00:59:58The United States, also similar things with Columbia, Harvard.

01:00:01And people wearing kafias, looking like terrorists, saying we support Hezbollah and Hamas.

01:00:07I understand that in Brazil, you haven't had that kind of thing.

01:00:10You have a different demography.

01:00:12You haven't had that kind of immigration from Islamic states in your major cities.

01:00:18Maybe in the south, you have some Shiites, maybe in the border area, which are sympathetic to Hezbollah.

01:00:22But you haven't had these phenomena yet, and I hope you don't.

01:00:25But you do have a president who identifies with the radical left, identifies with their narrative.

01:00:33And we see that this is a virus that goes worldwide.

01:00:37I hope it doesn't infect Brazil the way it has in other countries and cities.

01:00:42But clearly, it has infected the rhetoric of your president.

01:00:47It's very dangerous.

01:00:47And anti-Semitism is a problem that hurts Jews, but it also hurts the rest of society, a society that becomes scapegoating the Jews.

01:00:56Things do not go well.

01:00:58You know, we saw it with Germany.

01:00:59What began with anti-Semitism destroyed the country.

01:01:02We've seen it with other regimes over the time.

01:01:05It's a madness, a pathology that turns the country away from looking at its own problems.

01:01:11It's a way of saying, we're not going to look at our problems.

01:01:13We're going to find a traditional scapegoat, and that doesn't end well for anybody.

01:01:18So it's something that the general society of Brazil needs to make sure that they don't allow it to poison their society.

01:01:26And they should call out their president when he goes down that path, which he did when he made those horrible statements, and should step back from it and come back to a society that is about mutual respect and tolerance and not going into historic pathologies that have not ended well for anyone.

01:01:49Hello, Noyer, ladies and gentlemen.

01:01:51Thank you very much for your presence here.

01:01:53We are honored.

01:01:53We admire your work.

01:01:55You were brave there when you confront people in the United Nations, the most hated man in the United Nations.

01:02:03Thank you very much.

01:02:03Thank you.

01:02:04And I just want to say, first of all, thank you to your agency for sharing some of our reports of what's happening at the United Nations, for interviewing me from time to time.

01:02:14It's very important.

01:02:15I know people in Brazil don't always have access to this information.

01:02:19Some of the media aren't always reporting this.

01:02:21So it's very important that your agency gives this information.

01:02:25I also want to thank the hosts that brought me here to Brazil.

01:02:28I came here to speak for a wonderful organization called Hillel International.

01:02:32Same name as me.

01:02:33We're both named after a great philosopher, rabbi who existed 2,000 years ago, who said, that which is hateful unto you, do not do unto others.

01:02:43That is the whole Torah.

01:02:44Go and learn.

01:02:46So Hillel International is a group that helps Jewish students, that gives them education, gives them programming, encourages a new leadership for the Jewish community for young students.

01:02:59And they celebrated their 20th anniversary in Rio de Janeiro, and I was invited to be the keynote speaker.

01:03:04I met terrific Jewish students who are committed to helping make Brazil a great country.

01:03:08And we just launched, they launched here, Hillel International in Sao Paulo.

01:03:13So I was here for that.

01:03:14All brought together by the wonderful Marcia Polisuc.

01:03:17So I'm really grateful to them for bringing me here.

01:03:19Yeah, you'll be always welcome.

01:03:21We love to talk to you in English, although we are much more intelligent in Portuguese.

01:03:25A todos vocês que acompanharam o podcast OA, toda segunda-feira tem um episódio novo no canal de YouTube de O Antagonista, às 19h30.

01:03:34Lembrando que o Papo Antagonista, que eu e o Duda Teixeira fazemos todos os dias, analisando as notícias de cada dia do Brasil e do mundo, é de segunda a sexta-feira, repito, das 18h às 19h30, na TV BMC e aqui também no canal de YouTube de O Antagonista.

01:03:47Um grande abraço a todos e até a próxima.

01:03:55Podcast OA, conversa boa de ver e ouvir.

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