24 Hours in Police Custody S02E05 (03 Feb 2015)
Category
🦄
CreativityTranscript
00:00Today, has he hurt you at all today?
00:02He has given you a slap in the face today, I think.
00:05Would you class yourself as a bully?
00:12Cos she's so small, I would call myself as a bully for doing that to her, yeah.
00:18He has slapped you in the face, we need to deal with that, don't we?
00:20Did you start to get verbally abusive?
00:23I cannot remember what I exactly said,
00:25but I was getting very wound up in myself.
00:29And then from there, obviously,
00:31where I'm so angry and I'm upset, I've slapped my grandmother.
00:37And what I'd done to her, she did not deserve.
00:51Once a suspect is in custody,
00:53the police have 24 hours to investigate and investigate again.
00:59After that, it's either charge or release.
01:03You have been arrested on suspicion of human trafficking.
01:06On suspicion of stalking.
01:08On suspicion of GBH.
01:10Possession and making of indecent images of children.
01:12On suspicion of conspiracy to murder.
01:15Start explaining.
01:19It's the police's job to ask what really happened.
01:22Where were you on the 28th of July?
01:24It was not me, I was not there.
01:26That could have been 101 people, but it's nothing to do with me.
01:33Police! Open the door now!
01:36Police! Police!
01:39Who's innocent? Who's guilty?
01:42Why would Pete say that he'd assaulted him?
01:44Because he's deluded, he's a drunk.
01:46Well, that's nonsense.
01:48Police! Show me your hands!
01:50Police!
01:51Police!
01:52Police!
01:53Show me your hands!
01:55From the streets to the interrogation rooms.
01:58Where's the knife? Did you have a knife?
02:00He makes specific threat that he is going to kill her.
02:04From the suspects to the head of CID.
02:07That's one hell of a shirt, David. I'm loving it.
02:12These are the men and women who have just 24 hours to find the evidence.
02:17I'm not letting him get away with it.
02:18I want him nixed and charged.
02:21If he kicks off, I'm out of the door.
02:23And I'd love her, not fight her.
02:26Will they discover it before time runs out?
02:31Good news?
02:32Yeah.
02:34Got him.
02:44Bedfordshire police are appealing for information
02:47after two women were sexually assaulted in Dunstable
02:49within 15 minutes of each other.
02:53Detectives say the offender's in his mid-20s to mid-30s
02:57and of Mediterranean appearance.
03:06There's two victims who have both been sexually touched
03:10and one of their husbands was slapped.
03:15A lot of people join the police from a relatively young age.
03:18I joined at 40, you know, so I've had a lot of life experience,
03:22you know, before then.
03:25I was in the Royal Navy from when I left school
03:27and I served in the Falklands and, you know,
03:31lots of experiences around the world.
03:35But for this job, I was lucky never to have been burgled,
03:37never to have needed the police.
03:40About five o'clock yesterday evening,
03:42the first incident happened close by the cemetery in Dunstable.
03:48I had no real conception of what really goes on in Luton
03:52or, you know, in Bedfordshire or even the country,
03:55as that matters, you know, you're in your own little bubble.
03:58And if it doesn't affect you, you don't worry about it.
04:02But, of course, now I'm in this bubble
04:04where I see everything that happens to everybody.
04:07The lady walks past me and says,
04:09The lady walks past this chap sitting on the bench in the cemetery.
04:14He gets up and follows her.
04:16He then sexually assaults her by grabbing her bottom
04:20and then he asks her if she wants a fuck.
04:24Bearing in mind she's in a cemetery,
04:26she makes some comment about,
04:28go home, God's watching you.
04:34This afternoon, we were walking the dog
04:36and I saw my neighbour's dog.
04:39I saw my neighbour, Doreen, was in the park.
04:41She said that a man had touched her and she did this gesture.
04:46OK.
04:49And that she had fought him off and walked away.
04:53You know, I asked her if she was all right.
04:56She said she was feeling a bit shaky.
04:59The police's priority is to find the suspect before he re-offends.
05:03DC Rachel Chandler has been sent to interview a witness
05:06to one of the attacks.
05:08And then all of a sudden, we heard a woman shouting, help.
05:13OK, so we turned around, we ran, and by the time I got to them,
05:17the man had already turned around and walked away.
05:20First thing I heard her say was, thank you.
05:24I shouted because I didn't know how far it might go.
05:27Can you describe the male to me?
05:30Um, I didn't pay that much attention,
05:33but he was stocky, you know, he's well-built, big guy.
05:39He didn't appear very tall, he was wearing blue jeans and a grey hoodie.
05:43He was a young guy, like he was a lot younger than the woman.
05:46Obviously, he's a male. Yeah. Is he white, black, Asian?
05:49I didn't see. OK.
05:53Detectives have a hunch that this case might be linked to a sexual attacker
05:57they've been looking for for the last three months.
06:01Well, it's not far from the other ones, either, then.
06:05It's off Bull Pond Lane.
06:09He fits the description of the assaults that happened on 10th of January.
06:13The victim was sexually assaulted and grappled to the ground
06:17and he's trying to kiss her and she bites his tongue
06:20and takes a chunk out of his tongue.
06:23And we have that piece of tongue which has been seized
06:27and gone off to the lab.
06:39A lot of elderly people have never been into a police station.
06:43They don't want to involve the police sometimes.
06:46It can be very overwhelming for them.
06:48And they're scared when they come in.
06:52Do you want a cup of tea?
06:54OK, love. Yeah? Do you take sugar? No, I don't.
06:57No? Sweet enough, like me.
07:00We're their last resort, really.
07:02I took sugar for years.
07:04Pensioner Gillian is reporting a male robber
07:06who's been harassing her for money.
07:08I don't know what way to turn, I just don't know what to do.
07:11It's all the time.
07:13It gets me out of bed at night to go to the cash point.
07:17And the thing is now, I've got no money.
07:20So when did he ask you for this money? When did he turn up?
07:23He hasn't turned up. He's been ringing my mobile.
07:25And I can't go out anywhere with my friends or whatever.
07:28I can't go to bingo that he's ringing me up there.
07:31And he comes up there, I can't go anywhere.
07:33Do you know you're here? No.
07:35I feel sometimes quite upset,
07:38because this is their family that's doing this to them.
07:41He used to be such a lovely boy, and what hurts me is because
07:45I've done such a lot for him when he was young.
07:49Shall we turn your phone off? Or shall we put it on silent?
07:53So then we can log how many calls he's done.
07:55They say blood's thicker than water, but then they start to realise...
08:01..that they're not alone.
08:02Then they start to realise...
08:05..they start to realise, no, I don't deserve this.
08:08He's hassling you all the time.
08:10For money? Yeah.
08:11How much have you got to give him?
08:13First of all, he wanted £100.
08:15Now it's going down to 50.
08:17Does he say what he wants it for?
08:19Well, cigarettes, drugs, probably.
08:22Yeah, but it probably would be good for you if you actually got
08:25an injunction out with a power of arrest.
08:28DOORBELL RINGS
08:30It's the seventh one.
08:32You need to start saying no, really, to giving him money.
08:36Don't say no. It's not going to happen. Stop asking me.
08:39DOORBELL RINGS
08:41Eight missed calls.
08:43In the space of five minutes.
08:45I'd say longer than that. Have you?
08:49It takes a lot of courage for them to come in,
08:51and I do say that to them.
08:54You've taken that first step, the hardest step,
08:57coming in and reporting it.
08:58Being as there's been no threats made, OK,
09:01it's not a criminal offence.
09:05But it's really hard when you really want to help somebody
09:08and you can't, because no criminal offence has happened.
09:12He has stolen before, but this time he's not constantly saying,
09:16give me the money, give me the money, please.
09:18Aw. So not actually forcing it.
09:21Is he threatening that? That's the problem, no.
09:24Not that that's the problem, but we can't do nothing.
09:27Because you're just giving it to him.
09:31DOORBELL RINGS
09:41Have you put the police back in the house?
09:43Yeah, I was at the police station today.
09:45He came to my house, but he's back here again,
09:48causing a disturbance.
09:49OK, is he banging on your front door? Yeah.
09:56The relative harassing pensioner Gillian has stopped calling her.
10:00Instead, he's paid her a visit.
10:09Gillian? Hello.
10:14He's gone back home now. Has he?
10:16He's been smashing his house up round there.
10:18He's been smashing his house up round there? Yeah.
10:20You all right for us to come in? Yeah. Lovely.
10:23I'll just have a drink of coffee. OK.
10:26What time did you get out of bed? About half eight.
10:30Bang, bang, bang, and I knew it was him.
10:36And that's when he shouted...
10:38I'll be back tomorrow at ten o'clock.
10:40Can I come and smash the door in?
10:43The thing is, he had this claim money coming through a car.
10:48Mm-hm. So what's happened then?
10:50Someone went into him, and they did admit it, and he's got this claim.
10:54But because he owes me all this money, I can't let him have it.
10:58I can't carry on.
11:01It's making me a wreck.
11:03I've had terrible rashes all on my leg from wearing...
11:06All this is... Stress and that, yeah.
11:09So it's over the last couple of years it's all sort of stemmed, is it?
11:13Yeah, it started, yeah, a month ago, two years ago.
11:15I've been too frightened to tell anyone.
11:17Right, so how much has he taken off of you now? Thousands.
11:21Started getting these monthly payments,
11:22and I've got no idea how much he's taken off of me.
11:25Thousands. Started getting these mopeds.
11:28How did he pay for that first moped? From me.
11:31So you agreed to lend him that money at that time?
11:33I just give it to him to keep the pace,
11:36cos he used to go on and on and on, like he's doing now.
11:38And you just, well, in the end, I'd just go and get it and give it him.
11:42So... Why did you just go and give it him?
11:46Well, I don't really know, but...
11:50He wanted things. He said,
11:52would you get me this and get me that?
11:54I got an Argos card, and then he sold them.
11:57I've still got £1,200 to find for that.
12:00What, he's sold them all? He's selling everything.
12:03It's all down to drugs.
12:04Do you know what sort of drugs he's on? Cannabis.
12:07So he tells us.
12:09He says it's nothing, it's only a plant.
12:13Right, OK. I don't seem to agree with him. No.
12:16He used to be a lovely boy, it's just what he's got into. Yeah.
12:20But I gave him everything.
12:22I used to take him on holiday three times a year.
12:25I did everything, him at home and everything,
12:27and this is how he's treating me.
12:29He don't care, he said.
12:32It hurts.
12:34How was his attitude with you over the phone?
12:37Aggressive.
12:39My cheque and I want it.
12:40I said, you're not having it.
12:42I said, that's my money, you owe me that.
12:44So you stood up again, so you stood up for yourself yesterday?
12:47Today. No, it's yesterday now. Next day.
12:49Oh, yeah, of course it is, yeah.
12:52It's a tough load when you're having fun, eh?
12:59We'll treat all causes very urgently.
13:01We'll make it sort of clear that there could be some issues
13:04here at ten o'clock tomorrow.
13:06If you hear any funny noises during the night,
13:08you ring 999 straight away.
13:10Take care.
13:22A DB solicitor's on there.
13:25After ransacking another family member's house,
13:28Gillian's relative has been arrested.
13:32She's gone to get the paperwork now.
13:34There's no offence, they've arrested me for no reason,
13:38because they stole 3,000 pounds of broken furniture.
13:41Then we got a point-to-point from our sergeant saying...
13:43Oh, my goodness. ..he's wanted on to crime reports.
13:45OK, go and wait in an office,
13:46and when you've got all the information, come back to me.
13:48You see that? He's touching me.
13:50So? I don't want him to touch me.
13:52He's guiding you into a room.
13:53I don't want him to touch me, then.
13:54He's guiding me, but he doesn't want to touch me.
13:56Excuse me. Yeah?
13:58I'm asking to take these pants off.
13:59There's no reason for you to be on now.
14:01I'm not going to run off with it, am I?
14:03Are you going to behave?
14:04Of course I'm going to behave.
14:06Well, you're a bit arsey.
14:07Because I've been arrested for no reason.
14:09Well, you haven't been arrested for no reason.
14:11You've been arrested for three offences.
14:14You've been arrested for harassment,
14:16you've been arrested for stealing,
14:17and you've been arrested for three offences.
14:19You've been arrested for harassment,
14:21threats to commit criminal damage, and criminal damage.
14:23OK?
14:24You don't know the situation.
14:26Well, you need to be interviewed.
14:27You've been here before?
14:29Yes, no?
14:30Yeah. OK, then you understand the process.
14:32What's your surname, please?
14:34I've got all my details on a piece of paper.
14:36Just chill, all right?
14:37I know. No-one's being rude or disrespectful to you.
14:40You've put me in a cell for six, seven hours.
14:42Well, these are a consequence...
14:43I'm not putting you in a cell for seven hours.
14:45I'm going to be your... Hello, how are you?
14:47..in here, then behave.
14:48I do behave. I haven't done nothing wrong.
14:50Unfortunately... Crime has been committed against me.
14:52Well, I've asked you if you wanted to make a complaint,
14:54you said no.
14:55Make a complaint against me, what are you going to do?
14:57Go to the rest of the world? What will the police do?
14:59The police don't do nothing.
15:01Police don't change the world.
15:04And neither does bad behaviour and being insolent.
15:07And it's your attitude that's got you here.
15:11She was outside, please.
15:18SHE SCREAMS
15:21You know, if you fall over as a child and you bite into your tongue
15:25and you, erm, sever your tongue,
15:29it...it can mend itself, can't it?
15:32Take what Gary says, tongue in cheek.
15:34LAUGHTER
15:36When I was growing up, we lived on a council estate
15:38and there was, at the end of the rows of houses,
15:40you know, there was bungalows and they were the only people,
15:43you know, so you always looked out for them
15:46and you were always respectful to them.
15:48It was a different culture back then.
15:50You know, we called our neighbours aunties and uncles
15:53and anyone who was elderly was called auntie or uncle
15:55because it was a mark of respect.
15:58Unfortunately, today's society, that has changed.
16:07So, obviously, we've got CCTV potential to look at.
16:11Gary Hales hopes to link the case of the pensioners
16:14attacked in a cemetery to the perpetrator of another sexual attack
16:17who's never been found.
16:21All he has is a physical description and a DNA sample
16:24from the man's tongue.
16:26My understanding of the tongue is that it grows back.
16:32It's crucial to get a first-hand account from the victim
16:35as soon as possible.
16:37KNOCK AT DOOR
16:41Hi, Doreen.
16:42My name's PC Ollie Tomlinson.
16:44Spoke to you on the phone from Lucy ID.
16:46You all right if I come in? Of course you wish.
16:48Thank you very much.
16:50So, what I want you to do, Doreen, is just run through the cat bin
16:53as much as you can actually remember.
16:56Do you remember what he looked like?
16:58No. No.
16:59No.
17:01A thing like that, you don't look around too much, do you?
17:04Do you remember what had happened?
17:07Yes.
17:08What can you tell me, Doreen?
17:09I was out in the cemetery lane
17:12with my little dog.
17:14Yeah.
17:15He stopped, and I bent down to see,
17:18to make sure he was all right.
17:22All of a sudden, out of nowhere,
17:25comes a hand at my bottom,
17:28which I resented, I'm sorry, but I did.
17:31Of course.
17:33And, in fact, I'm afraid I swore at him.
17:37And I can tell you exactly what I said.
17:39Get off of me, you filthy bastard.
17:49Which I think was justifiable.
17:52But, you know, it's just frightening, quite honestly.
17:57I understand, though. It's disgusting.
18:01You don't remember what the man looked like?
18:03No.
18:04You don't remember what the man looked like at all?
18:06You can't picture him?
18:07Sorry, it was a glimpse.
18:08It wasn't...
18:10It wasn't what you could really record and say,
18:13oh, yes, it was definitely him.
18:15Yeah.
18:16You know? Yeah, I understand.
18:19But, other than that, that's about all I can tell you.
18:23It's not much for you, I know.
18:25No, you've done brilliantly.
18:27Something like that happens.
18:29It's a shock, isn't it? Yeah.
18:31Totally.
18:32You lose your trust in people when anything like that happens.
18:36Yeah.
18:37We're going to be investigating this as best as possible for you,
18:40Doreen, because we want to make sure we've caught the right person.
18:43And if we have caught the right person,
18:45it will take the right steps to make sure
18:47that they can't be doing this to anybody again, OK?
18:49Oh, please.
19:03Oh, I've been here before, haven't I?
19:09Investigating officer Jill Cook-Smith
19:11is dealing with another case involving a pensioner.
19:15She looks slightly unsteady on her feet.
19:17Has he hurt you at all today?
19:19He has given you a slap in the face today.
19:23A 78-year-old woman has reported her grandson to the police.
19:27OK, but he has slapped you in the face,
19:28so we need to deal with that, don't we?
19:30Any mental health issues? No.
19:32Ever tried to harm yourself or commit suicide?
19:34Are you feeling OK in your health at the moment?
19:36He's been arrested for assault.
19:39We'll get you some food and drink if you want some, mate, all right?
19:46How low can you go, though?
19:49I just can't believe that you would go round
19:51and hit your 78-year-old grandma.
19:54She's taken him into her home.
19:58He's lived there for three years.
20:03What a git.
20:06Yeah, hi, my name's Jill. I'm calling from Luton Police Station.
20:10And I'm going to be interviewing your grandson shortly.
20:14Well, I'm going to make sure that I make him feel quite bad.
20:18When he's released today, because he probably will be released today,
20:21are you still welcoming him back in your home?
20:24OK. Are you still quite adamant
20:26that you don't want to make a complaint against him?
20:30All right, then.
20:31Once we've finished an interview, depending on what he says,
20:36then we'll decide if or what punishment he's going to receive.
20:41I will give you a ring after and let you know how it went.
20:45No, no, no, you don't have to wait. You don't have to come down.
20:48He's old enough to be interviewed.
20:50Yeah, no, no, no, we'll feed him. We'll give him lunch, so...
20:55Nice cup of tea and a chat. OK, I'll tell him that, then.
20:58All right, you're welcome. Bye-bye.
21:00Aw, bless you.
21:04I do shopping for her, I do the housework for her.
21:07And we go out for meals and things like that.
21:11She gets a bit moany as well at times, being old.
21:14She gets moany, I think she's a bit moany.
21:17If I have a conversation with her, I feel like I'll have to have
21:22that same conversation twice, maybe three times in one day, you know?
21:27But she's lovely, anyway.
21:30She said he's had a really hard life.
21:31She said his parents went away to Tenerife
21:33and he ended up on her doorstep because he had nowhere else to live.
21:37It's really quite sad, isn't it? Yeah, it's sad.
21:39It's really quite sad.
21:40It's really quite sad, isn't it?
21:42It's really quite sad, isn't it?
21:44It's really quite sad, isn't it? Yeah.
21:46But that still doesn't give him an excuse to eat his naan.
21:48She's, um, 78.
21:50She said tell him he's welcome home at any time.
21:54Feel like just want to go round and give her a big cuddle.
21:57Yeah.
21:58How do you feel about getting old one day?
22:00Well, I don't want to feel old.
22:02I don't want to never ever get old.
22:06It's a scary one, isn't it?
22:08No-one wants to get old, but it's nature, isn't it?
22:11It happens to all of us.
22:12HE MUTTERS
22:24All right, we'll go round this side, I think.
22:26All right, come round this side. This way.
22:28A man who fits the description from the attack in the cemetery
22:31has been arrested.
22:34And the offences?
22:36Er, sexual touching times two and a common assault.
22:40Place of arrest?
22:41Er, cemetery, Dunstable.
22:44You need to listen carefully to what this officer's got to say.
22:47He's going to give me the grounds of why you were arrested.
22:51Today, this gentleman has been identified on two occasions
22:55having approached two elderly females
22:58and groped them by touching their bottoms.
23:03On the second, IP has stated that he said to them,
23:08I want to fuck you, I want to fuck you.
23:11And the husband of the IP was assaulted by him
23:16by slapping him across the back of the head.
23:20With the suspect in custody, police can take a sample of his DNA.
23:24They'll try to match it to the piece of tissue
23:27that was found in the victim's body.
23:29One of our victims, Doreen, she did tell two people, luckily.
23:33Bless her.
23:36But his DNA's been rushed to Oxford now.
23:39If that comes back a match, then, you know,
23:42we can capture him in the area on both days,
23:45because we've got his DNA.
23:49But first, we need to find out what happened to the victim.
23:53We've got to find out what happened to the victim.
23:56But first, officers will search the suspect's house.
24:00Hello, there, it's the police. Sorry to bother you, sir.
24:03We've got a section 18 search in relation to a gentleman that lives here.
24:08We're authorised to come and search his bedroom to obtain some items.
24:26Yep, we'll take that.
24:29That looks like a jacket that's been described by the victims.
24:42That's a perfect description of what the IPs have mentioned.
24:50I'll take it you're the stepfather, are you?
24:53Well, I'm not a stepfather, I inherited him when I married his mother.
24:56I've had more police here in the last couple of years
24:59than I've had in the last 50 years.
25:01And I don't need all this asshole.
25:03No, no, no, I don't blame you, sir.
25:05He ain't right in the head.
25:07Has he been diagnosed with anything?
25:09No, because nobody will do anything.
25:11We've tried to get the doctor, and he said he won't do anything
25:14unless the boy goes there voluntarily, and he ain't going to do that.
25:18He ain't all there.
25:21He ain't all there.
25:23We want somebody to do something to help us.
25:25OK, OK.
25:35Something's not really sitting right with DR-2.
25:38Strange fella. Yeah.
25:41Stepfather says that he's got learning difficulties.
25:45He's got mental issues, cannabis user.
25:48Starved of oxygen as a baby.
25:55There could be some mileage to that claim.
26:02Doctors are in custody, so it's a case of they've got to get around
26:05and do all the people in custody.
26:07And one of the jobs is to mentally assess him
26:09to see whether we can interview him.
26:18Right, let's have a look, man.
26:20Right, the top one was RTC.
26:23He was finished with common assault because he punched
26:26the other person involved in the RTC.
26:29Next one, M6.
26:31Domestic common assault.
26:33Now, I booked this man into custody,
26:36and I can't even think what he has done.
26:41I've got to say, I've got to say,
26:43I've got to say, I've got to say,
26:45what he has done.
26:48A grandmother young lad.
26:50That's right, he had an argument at home
26:52and then he slapped his grandmum round the face.
26:54Oh, what?
27:00Hello. Hello, how are you?
27:03Yeah, you? Yes.
27:05Good.
27:07Can someone book me out for interview?
27:10Yeah, which one? M6.
27:12Nanny beater, granny beater.
27:15OK, if you want to come through.
27:24Right, Lee, if I can get you to sit into that chair there for us.
27:29Make sure this is working. This one?
27:31That one there, please.
27:36Now then, Lee, the offence for which you've been arrested
27:40is common assault, so that's what you've been arrested for.
27:43How old is your nan?
27:45It was her birthday just the other week, she was 78.
27:48Why did you go and live with your nan?
27:50Because there was no other family or friends
27:52that I could stay with.
27:54And do you give your nan board?
27:56Not at the moment, because I've got no income,
27:58but that will change as I do get income.
28:01So your nan's actually keeping you as well?
28:03Yes.
28:05OK, what's your relationship with your nan like?
28:08Describe your relationship.
28:10Our relationship, she's been there for me since day one,
28:13since I was born, like, she's been the only one
28:15that actually has looked out for me.
28:17Do you wish to give me an account as to what's happened,
28:20what's occurred?
28:22Well, basically, I've come to my grandma's
28:24and I've asked my grandmother for a phone number from my father
28:27because he hasn't been too well, he's coming back to the UK.
28:30My nan said she didn't know where the phone number was.
28:33Obviously, from that, I've got a bit angry and upset sort of thing
28:38and saying, where is the number, where is the number?
28:42Did you say to your nan, you fucking must have moved it,
28:45it has not got legs?
28:47Possibly, I did say something like that, yeah.
28:49Do you not think that's a bit disrespectful?
28:51I do, yeah, cos my nan don't like it, she hates it,
28:53she hates the swearing and all that.
28:57Your nan said that she stood up and said to you,
28:59you do not speak to me like that in my own home.
29:01Yes, she did. Can you remember her saying that?
29:03Yes, I do. Can you remember what you did after she said that?
29:06Well, I said to her, look, I just want to find the number
29:09and I'll get out of your way.
29:11And because I was getting angry and upset,
29:13my nan's asked me to leave the house and I've said to her,
29:17can I have the phone number and I will leave?
29:19And she said, no, I don't know where it is,
29:21I don't know where it is.
29:23And then from that, obviously,
29:26where I'm so angry and I'm upset, I've slapped my grandmother.
29:34Can you tell me, describe to me what was going through your head
29:37when you did that? I don't know.
29:39What was the reasons for doing that?
29:42I don't know why I done it.
29:44How hard did you slap her? I don't know.
29:50Did she have any injuries to her? I didn't look at her.
29:54Why did you not look at her?
29:56Cos I, like, hit her and then walked away from her.
29:59OK, is this the first time that you've ever assaulted or hit your nan?
30:03No. OK. Before.
30:05When did it happen, before? It was in 2012, I think.
30:09OK. And did your nan report this to the police?
30:13Yes. OK, and she did.
30:15OK, and what happened then? I was put in prison for it.
30:18And what I'd done to her, she did not deserve.
30:20She didn't deserve it.
30:35How many times have you actually assaulted your nan in the past, though?
30:38I don't know. I don't know.
30:40I don't know. I don't know.
30:42I don't know. I don't know.
30:44I don't know. I don't know.
30:47How many times have you actually assaulted your nan in the past, though?
30:50Just twice. Just twice.
30:52Is that including yesterday?
30:54That's including yesterday as well.
30:58I didn't mean to hurt my grandmother in any way, but I was angry.
31:04You don't just hit someone for no reason.
31:06I was angry.
31:08I wanted to speak to my father, cos he's coming back to the UK.
31:12And I haven't seen him in years, neither.
31:15I haven't seen him for a few years.
31:20It's no excuse to hit my grandmother. I know it's not, but...
31:23OK, would you class yourself as a bully?
31:26Well, cos she's so small,
31:29I would call myself as a bully for doing that to her, yeah.
31:33From listening to you, it sounds like you said that you got angry pretty quick.
31:37Have you got anger problems? Just like that.
31:40Whereas some people, they can keep their calm, me, I can't.
31:44I'm quite unflustered and I'll just lash out.
31:48I usually bottle things up.
31:50Can you not cope with your anger? Do you not know how to channel your anger?
31:54I don't know how to... Usually, if I just go for a walk for 10, 20 minutes,
31:58and that's it, cool down time.
32:00Can I ask why you didn't do that yesterday?
32:02I should have. I should have.
32:05All right, then, Lee, as I say, I've got nothing else to ask you.
32:08Have you got anything else that you want to say to me before we turn the tape off?
32:11Yeah, OK. If I can ask you to sign this, then.
32:14My job is to find out the facts.
32:17But sometimes you go down with one thing in your head
32:20and speak to the offender, or the so-called offender,
32:23and that person is totally different from what you expect him to be.
32:27All right, Lee, I'll be as quick as I can, all right?
32:34You do feel a little bit sorry for them.
32:37I wasn't as horrible as I might have been.
32:40Because him himself, you know, he knows what he's done is wrong
32:44and he feels ashamed of himself,
32:46so I decided not to make him feel even more ashamed.
32:49What I don't want to happen is him to leave here another day,
32:52do the exact same thing as before, get her head and die.
32:55Yeah, I think it's OK. She's close to 80 years old.
32:58He can't do that. He's probably not all bad, but he gets angry.
33:02He's got his issues, hasn't he? Yeah.
33:04I don't think they'll put him in prison for it.
33:08I don't think they'll put him in prison for it at all,
33:11but what they'll probably do is they'll maybe... Give him the help.
33:14..give him a little bit of help and try and sort him out
33:17and prevent her from coming to any harm, and that's the main thing, really.
33:20I get angry really quick.
33:22I've been told by my other half that I need anger management classes.
33:26I just think, whatever.
33:28You know, but there's...
33:30Some people have obviously got quick fuses, haven't they?
33:33And it could be just something really silly, really simple,
33:36that just sets that person off.
33:45There was my mum and me, we'd argue, and me and my dad,
33:48we would... He used to say,
33:50you're not just my son, you're my best friend.
33:54We used to get on very well.
33:56And now?
33:58We're still... I think that connection's still there,
34:01but it's just...
34:03..further away.
34:06Yeah, hi, it's Jewel again from Luton Police Station.
34:09Right, I've interviewed Lee,
34:12and he's fully admitted, obviously,
34:16stabbing you, and basically he said in a nutshell
34:19that, you know, he's not proud of his actions,
34:22he shouldn't have done it, et cetera, et cetera.
34:25And he also made me aware that this was not the first time
34:29that he's hit you as well.
34:32We've got a duty of care to you,
34:36and obviously he's done it once and he's done it before,
34:39and he has told me that he's got anger problems.
34:42In some cases, the Crown Prosecution Service will go ahead
34:45with the job,
34:48even if you haven't got a willing victim.
34:51Obviously, you know, you don't want to take it any further,
34:54but we're going to go to what we call the Crown Prosecution Service
34:57to see what they want to do,
34:59because if he hadn't done it,
35:01then we could have cautioned him,
35:03and that would have been the end of the matter.
35:05But because he's done it before,
35:07we're obviously worried that he could possibly do it again.
35:10Can you imagine life without your brother?
35:12Oh, my God, no.
35:14I wouldn't even want to imagine it,
35:16cos I've lost so many families,
35:18I've lost aunties, I've lost uncles,
35:20I've lost my grandfather.
35:22Um...
35:24At the moment, she's the only close family that I've got.
35:28Me and my nan, we look after each other.
35:31She will be upset when I come out.
35:33She will be very upset.
35:35So I'll just have to do something with her to take her mind off it.
35:39Try and put a smile back on her face.
35:42Lee, a decision's going to be made by Crown Prosecution Service
35:45whether we're going to charge you or not with the matter, OK?
35:48If that decision comes back as a charge,
35:50I'm going to be making a decision with Rebecca.
35:53I'm going to be making a decision with Rebecca.
35:57I'm going to be making a decision with regards to your bail,
36:00whether we give you bail or not tonight, OK?
36:02And that's going to be based on a number of factors, OK?
36:05Firstly, are you a risk to your nan?
36:07PHONE RINGS
36:09Hello, PHU.
36:11Lee's grandmother has rung in to check when to expect him home.
36:18You're worried.
36:20I'm just being quite honest with you, Lee,
36:22and I know you're getting a little bit upset,
36:24but we will look at it, yeah?
36:26Of course you can.
36:27It will be a while.
36:29Do you remember I said to you that I needed to type that report out?
36:32So I'm still in the middle of doing that.
36:34I've nearly finished it, OK?
36:36When I get a result with this,
36:38when I know what's happening one way or the other,
36:40then I will give you a ring and let you know, OK?
36:44If it keeps happening, you wonder to yourself, you know,
36:47why do you take this person back?
36:49And it can be quite difficult to understand that sometimes,
36:52but obviously I'm not in their shoes.
36:55She dearly would love him back, and she wants him back,
36:58and should have phoned up to find out when he's coming back.
37:01I asked her if she felt any... What did she feel when he did it?
37:04She said, well, I was quite shocked that he did,
37:06cos I wasn't expecting it.
37:08She did tell me the same story about four times.
37:11Even since 2012, I've been out of trouble.
37:14I haven't got into any trouble at all.
37:16I've just tried to keep my head clear,
37:18cos I had a phone call from my father from Tenerife,
37:21said, oh, I've had a... I'm coming over to the UK.
37:25I just got an upset and everything.
37:29I was hoping to see her today and give her a hug,
37:32and just say I'm sorry, and it would never happen again.
37:36The way it's looking, I'm not going to be able to, am I?
37:41She turned around and said, you know,
37:43she wished that she hadn't reported it,
37:45because she just wanted him to get a roasting from us,
37:47but unfortunately it doesn't...
37:49Maybe used to work that way, but not now.
37:52If you need to call to your dad or someone like that,
37:54I can sort that out.
37:56Who's got the number?
37:58All right.
38:00Look, let me give you a bit of a time-out, yeah?
38:05Jill Cook-Smith is now running background checks on Lee.
38:24It's become clear that Lee has not revealed everything.
38:29She reckons that she's only been assaulted by him one time before,
38:32and I thought, right, I'll have a little look.
38:34And there's been, not including today's, five reported assaults,
38:38and I don't think maybe she can remember them.
38:42There's another one that happened in September 2011,
38:45where he's gone to court.
38:47He's become verbally aggressive and threatened her with a screwdriver.
38:51She's come downstairs, where then he's pushed her onto the sofa,
38:54causing her to fall backwards,
38:56and then he's kicked her on the right shin.
39:01I don't think he's taken advantage of her.
39:03I don't think it's that.
39:05I just think that he just snaps.
39:07He knows that he should just walk away, but he doesn't.
39:10Maybe some sort of anger management course or something
39:13that, you know, they can do for him.
39:15So in the long run, that is going to help him.
39:18If the Crown Prosecution Service agrees to charge,
39:21custody sergeant Hob Hock will have the final say
39:24on whether Lee will be released on bail.
39:28I think I'm likely asking for a remand, aren't I?
39:31May I ask your advice?
39:33Go on, CPS direct.
39:35Yeah, I'm on the phone to CPS.
39:37Now, I am looking to remand my dude.
39:39A common assault against his nan.
39:41His nan's 78 years old, and since 2010, there's nine assaults
39:45where she's phoned up and he's been shouting and screaming at her.
39:50There's been five cases of common assault,
39:53which are a mixture of slapping on the face, kicking,
39:56and at one point, he had his hand up against her throat.
39:59Three of them have been charged.
40:02Two of them were in FA because she didn't want to take it.
40:05She's given me a statement, but she doesn't support it.
40:08She wants him back.
40:10She's come out to my terminal.
40:12All of the assaults that are on there are all to do with his, um...
40:16All to do with his nan.
40:19Assault, assault.
40:21How on earth, six times, can you do that?
40:42Right, you ready?
40:48Right, do you want to come to the desk?
41:04OK, my decision is, Lee, that you're going to be staying with us tonight
41:08and I'm going to be sending you in front of the next available court,
41:11which is tomorrow morning, OK?
41:13That'll be at 9.30, Luton Magistrates' Court.
41:16I propose that I refuse you bail on the following reasons,
41:19that you've had a string of offences of assault against your grandma,
41:22who's 78 years old.
41:24You currently reside with her at the home address,
41:27and that's your confirmed home address, yeah?
41:30If I release you from custody tonight,
41:33you could go back there and she could be released.
41:37I totally accept what you're saying and I understand what you're saying, Lee.
41:41It happened two years ago and you've told me
41:44you received a custodial sentence for that, yeah?
41:47It's happened again.
41:49We've had a string of five assaults that have taken place there,
41:52three which you've been charged with, OK?
41:54This is a 78-year-old woman, you're a 27-year-old man.
41:57If I release you and there is a further incident,
42:00it's not going to look very good.
42:02So what's going to happen after court?
42:04It is ultimately down to the court.
42:06But tonight, you'll be spending the night with us.
42:14I just wish there was another way.
42:16But there's not, is there?
42:19Lee, I suggest when you get there, OK, and you speak tomorrow,
42:23you tell them that you've got anger problems,
42:26and you never know, there's something that they might do to help.
42:29If they don't, whatever happens to you,
42:31I would suggest that you go and see a doctor
42:34and you turn round and tell them that you've got these problems
42:37and there might be something that they can do
42:39or put you in touch with somebody who can help.
42:42Because I don't think that you particularly want to hit your nan,
42:45do you, and assault her. Of course not.
42:47So you need to deal with it, OK?
42:51My detention officer's made you some foods and a hot drink as well.
42:56Don't worry.
42:58Don't worry.
43:18As the sexual assault suspect may have learning difficulties,
43:22a doctor has assessed him.
43:24He's been deemed mentally unfit to be interviewed.
43:28OK, so can I leave you now to go and do the charging
43:31and you'll email me?
43:34Gary Hales is asking the CPS
43:36whether they can charge without a formal interview.
43:40OK, thank you so much for your help.
43:43And you'll email me.
43:45Excellent. Thank you. Bye-bye.
43:49So it's charging with the last of the offences.
43:54Just the last two? Yeah, the last two.
43:57The common assault on the husband
44:00and the sexual assault on the wife.
44:04OK, but this officer's going to read the two charges
44:07that are going to be read out now, are the two offences
44:10that we've got enough evidence to charge you with at the minute.
44:13OK, there's two charges.
44:15The first one is assault by beating,
44:17country section 39 of the Criminal Justice Act, 1988.
44:20It's not my job to judge people.
44:22It's my job to try and gather evidence
44:24to see whether they are innocent or not.
44:27Second charge is sexual assault on a female,
44:29country to section 3 of the Sexual Offences Act, 2003.
44:34The lad that committed that crime,
44:36you know, he wasn't of a right mind.
44:40You're not going to be granted bail,
44:42so we'll keep you here to go to court in the morning.
44:44I'll allow you to phone your mum
44:46and tell your mum exactly what's happening.
44:48There's no... No, there's not going to be any bail tonight.
44:51And then the courts will decide tomorrow
44:53whether they're going to bail you.
44:55How do we deal with those sorts of people?
44:57It's a very tough one to decide.
44:59Do we lock these people up and keep them locked up?
45:02Or do we try and integrate them into society and rehabilitate them?
45:06Can they be rehabilitated?
45:12Police will have to wait a few days for the DNA test results.
45:16They hope they'll link the suspect
45:18to the tongue sample from the historical sex attack.
45:25PHONE RINGS
45:30Luton Serious Crime. Good morning.
45:34It does match.
45:36OK.
45:38People are vulnerable, even the offenders.
45:41And we have to try and understand why they're doing things.
45:44Can you help them? Can they help themselves?
45:47You know, are we, as society, able to support them
45:50to try and, you know, make them better people?
45:54MUSIC PLAYS
46:24MUSIC FADES
46:40Well, if you missed any of his daredevil antics,
46:44catch Our Guy In India.
46:46That's on 4OD, any time you like.
46:48Well, these guys asked nicely,
46:50so Mum and Dad bought them a hotel.
46:52Cheers and tantrums in Ramsay's Hotel Hell. Next.