24 Hours in Police Custody S03E03
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00:00If there is a gang, we try to intervene very quickly to stop them getting a foothold in the area that they're operating.
00:30Once a suspect is in custody, the police have 24 hours to investigate and interview.
00:54After that, it's either charge or release.
01:01You've been arrested on suspicion of human trafficking.
01:04On suspicion of stalking.
01:06On suspicion of GBH.
01:08Position and making of indecent images of children.
01:11On suspicion of conspiracy to murder.
01:13Start explaining.
01:15It's the police's job to ask what really happened.
01:21Where were you on the 28th of March?
01:23It was not me. I was not there.
01:25That could have been a hundred and one people.
01:27There's nothing to do with me.
01:29Police! Open the door now!
01:34Who's innocent? Who's guilty?
01:40Why would Pete say that he'd assaulted him?
01:43Because he's deluded. He's a drunk.
01:45Well, that's nonsense.
01:47Police! Open your hand!
01:49From the streets to the interrogation rooms.
01:52Where's the knife?
01:53Did you have a knife?
01:54He makes a specific threat that he is going to kill her.
01:58From the suspects to the head of CID.
02:01That's one hell of a shirt, David. I'm loving it.
02:07These are the men and women who have just 24 hours to find the evidence.
02:11I'm not letting him get away with it.
02:13I want him nicked and charged.
02:16If he kicks off, I'm out of the door.
02:18I'm a lover, not a fighter.
02:21Will they discover it before time runs out?
02:26Good news.
02:27Yeah.
02:29Got him.
02:31Now for Charlie, 823.
02:43Jamie Ricardos with the PCF-8.
02:49How are you doing?
02:50Not again.
02:53How are you going?
02:54How are you going?
02:55Do you want to follow me?
02:57How are you doing?
02:58How are you doing?
02:59How are you doing?
03:00How are you doing?
03:02Jamie Ricardos is suspected of committing a string of violent robberies over the past week.
03:07What's he in for?
03:09What's he in for?
03:10Uh, robbery and theft.
03:16Okay.
03:17Got some health questions to go through with you.
03:18Do you have any injuries?
03:19Any medical conditions?
03:21Any allergies?
03:22Yes.
03:23Any allergies?
03:24No.
03:25No.
03:26No.
03:27No.
03:28No.
03:29No.
03:30No.
03:31No.
03:32Okay.
03:33We suspect he's been operating as part of a group.
03:36The case has been passed to the robbery squad, headed by Sergeant Simon Hancock.
03:40Tea, Sergeant?
03:41Nice and strong.
03:42Nice and strong?
03:43With what?
03:44With one sweetener.
03:45Sergeant, I just remembered I have to address you now in the correct term.
03:51Well, within reason, just address me how you normally would.
03:56I don't include you in that, Dave.
03:57Well, I call you Sarge, anyhow, most of the time.
03:59Yes, we do.
04:00You're old school, you see.
04:02Old school, alright?
04:03Not old.
04:08To be honest with you, I didn't have any desire to be a police officer at school.
04:12In fact, I was quite rebellious at school.
04:15Sarge, you alright?
04:17Hunstable.
04:18How are you?
04:19Good, thank you.
04:20Training hard?
04:21I got wrapped up in a group of lads, and we were effectively terrorising everybody.
04:29I got expelled from school, disassociated myself from those individuals, and I thought,
04:35well, I'll give the police a try.
04:38Never imagining that I'd actually be recruited, in all honesty.
04:42I managed to get through, and here I am, 23 years later, still in Bedfordshire Police.
04:49Oh, good news, we hit target, by the way.
04:52Where are you?
04:53Robbery, detections.
04:54And that would be recognised in...
04:55Yeah, yeah.
04:56In the...
04:57In your wage packet.
04:58There's such a resilient bunch of people that I work with.
05:03If you commit a violent crime in Luton, then the likelihood is you'll be meeting either
05:07myself or one of my colleagues.
05:09And if we're able to piece together enough evidence, you'll find yourself in court, and
05:14if it's a serious crime, you'll end up in prison.
05:18Do you understand why you've been arrested?
05:21One of the robberies took place a week ago, outside the Moat House pub.
05:26The PNC that I've got in relation to the robbery states, a meat cleaver was held to the
05:31victim's arm, and demands for money was made.
05:36Okay.
05:37M1?
05:38M1.
05:39Yes.
05:40Cheers.
05:41Can I come this way?
05:46I've been accused of robberies.
06:04Robbery with a knife or a meat cleaver.
06:11Well, I kind of knew there was a warrant out of my arrest, but, you know what I mean, I'm
06:16not one of them ones that would come out of my way to just feed myself to you.
06:21You all right?
06:22What's up?
06:23Can I have a blanket, please?
06:26Okay.
06:27Yeah, you can have another blanket.
06:29That's about all.
06:30All right.
06:31Can I have a cigarette?
06:32No.
06:33Have the coffee in this place.
06:37And to be honest, all right, there's one thing I can never knock when I come here as a
06:41coffee.
06:42I do like a little coffee here.
06:43It's better than some days as you go to the cafe on the outside, the coffee is better
06:47in here.
06:48I'm glad they caught up, I mean, because I don't have to walk around looking over my
06:54shoulder, wondering when the next police car's going to stop me or when they're going
06:57to talk to me.
06:58Like, do I have to give a different name?
07:00Well, I'm glad it's all over with now.
07:04Hopefully in the next couple of hours I'll be at home.
07:07Hopefully.
07:12Are we saying he's part of a gang?
07:14Yeah.
07:15And it's premeditated?
07:17And both people have actually been cut by his weapons as well.
07:20Right.
07:21Well, sentencing guidelines say that he's likely to get quite a substantial term of imprisonment
07:25for that.
07:26Four years' starting point in custody, Tim.
07:29I'm a bit happier now, then.
07:32Our starting point is 24 hours in police detention.
07:37It sounds like a lot, but when you actually break it down, it's not a lot of time at all.
07:42When a suspect's been linked to several offences, or more than one suspect is linked to several
07:49offences, it does complicate matters.
07:52If there is a gang, we try to intervene very quickly to stop them getting a foothold in
07:58the area that they're operating.
08:00Which one hasn't he been nicked for yet, for you?
08:04And the second one?
08:0529.
08:06Mm-hm.
08:07I'll go and nick him for him now.
08:08Won't wait for you to do that.
08:11Police suspect Ricardo is also responsible for an aggravated burglary, committed just three
08:16days ago.
08:22Before his police interview, he needs to be arrested again.
08:27Mr Ricardo, come up here so I can hear you.
08:31I'll be dealing with you.
08:32Me and my colleague will be dealing with you.
08:34And then...
08:35Let me finish, because you're going to be further arrested for an aggravated burglary
08:40on the 28th of March, 2014.
08:43All right?
08:44So, it'll all be dealt with in one interview, and it'll all be dealt with together.
08:48But whether you're going anywhere, I don't know.
08:50OK?
08:51All right.
08:52See you in the morning.
08:53OK?
09:06Brace yourself for the bright light.
09:12All right.
09:13Do you want to come this way?
09:22And who scores?
09:32After a night in custody, Jamie Ricardo is joined by his solicitor.
09:37Jamie, I'm coming to sit next to you.
09:39Go on.
09:44Oh, the sun's shining.
09:46Yeah, I know.
09:48Don't have to rub it in.
09:51I'm in Luton Police Station more times than I'm at home.
09:54Every day, weekends.
09:57And you get to know them all quite well.
09:59I mean, in fact, some of them, I've represented their parents.
10:03Yeah.
10:07We've been working in this community for over 30 years,
10:11and we've got a long history with Marsh Farm, Lusie Farm.
10:16Nine out of ten of our clients are probably from within them areas.
10:20The judge called her back in and gave her a lower sentence just below the bit,
10:25so it enabled her to get out quicker.
10:27It was really good.
10:29I've ended up typing their CVs in my office to, you know, get them into work and everything.
10:36You do, and you do become like a surrogate mum to some of them.
10:41Listen, do you want to give me a girl's number if I do get you for court tomorrow or not?
10:4707.
10:49Hold on, Jamie.
10:51Let me just get there.
10:53Come and sit next to me, Hanks, come on.
10:56Come and sit next to me.
10:57Hold my hand.
10:59The robbery squad suspects one of Ricardo's associates was also involved in two of the offences as the getaway driver.
11:07Nick and Rachel, can you be the arrest team?
11:10All right, so basically there was an aggravated burglary where they've gone into a house with baseball bats and knife, stolen two phones and some cash.
11:24The offenders have then been chased out of the house by the IP and is seeing them getting into a silver mondeo.
11:31Phillip Stevenson has ensured to drive the mondeo.
11:35Stevenson's also been linked to a robbery that I'm investigating.
11:38Again, a silver fraud mondeo was used outside the Old Moats public house in the car park.
11:44Any questions?
11:47I'll say, go for it.
11:48All right, the colleague's just going to book you out. I'm just going to take this through and set up.
12:02All right, OK.
12:07Clearly going to show us some CC TV.
12:13So now what?
12:14Well, we're still saying the same thing. They don't actually know what happened in the vehicle.
12:19You've done nothing wrong.
12:21We're not hoping to get anyone else in trouble, but you've done nothing wrong.
12:24It's all right.
12:25All towers?
12:26All right, you got them.
12:27All right.
12:29Yeah.
12:33OK, come through.
12:40Got a nice big one if you can get in there.
12:41Well, I'll take this one.
12:42Is that not much room you need now?
12:45Yeah.
12:46Are you going to grab the end room if it's free?
12:52Oh, good.
12:53Yeah.
12:54That side, yeah.
12:59The victim of the robbery outside the Mote House pub has positively identified Jamie Ricciardo.
13:06Can you see your ID then?
13:08Yeah.
13:09OK, this interview is being audio and visually recorded and may be used in evidence if your case is brought to trial.
13:21The first offence is a robbery.
13:23Your client has been named to be one of four offenders who stole money and a mobile phone from **** in the car park of the old Mote House public house.
13:33Can I just start by saying to you that my client's prepared a statement for you.
13:39He starts by saying, I know ****, he is a drug dealer who tries to sell me weed.
13:44I've not taken part in any robbery.
13:46I have no idea why I've been arrested for this offence.
13:49This has nothing to do with me.
13:52Although CCTV, you can't identify anybody within the footage, it would suggest that an incident has taken place.
14:00He's given this account that he's there at this time of day.
14:03What does that have to do with me then?
14:04Let me finish.
14:05If he has genuinely been a victim of crime, or what he describes as a robbery,
14:09OK, why would he bring your name into it?
14:11He's put my name forward for something I haven't done.
14:14Do you know what I mean?
14:15Obviously, my name's been brought up somewhere along the line.
14:17He's like, right, Jamie.
14:18If you've been nothing to do with that, then surely he's going to want the right people caught.
14:22I mean, you said that he's a drug dealer, is that right?
14:25Yes, he is, mate.
14:27I'm sitting here and telling everybody to their thing.
14:29He's trying to get me done with something going on.
14:31He's a drug dealer, mate.
14:33I've received many, many, many, many, many, many messages telling me,
14:37I have potent cheese there, potent cheese, holla, potent cheese, holla.
14:41Every couple of days, you know what I mean?
14:42Constant pestle.
14:43If anything, harassing me now, he's got it.
14:45He states that he's been in contact with you with regards to buying cannabis from you.
14:53And then he receives a phone call from you saying that you are at the old moat house in a silver Ford Mondeo.
15:03Once he's got into the vehicle, he says that your hand's over 20 pounds.
15:09And then here's, give me your P, and he receives P as a street name for money.
15:15Have you ever heard that phrase before?
15:17No.
15:18No?
15:19No.
15:20You don't know what it means?
15:21No, I'm a well-spoken lad.
15:22Okay.
15:23I can't put up well.
15:24The driver of the vehicle has picked up and cleaned the knife.
15:28The driver's gone on to say, I'll cut your fucking hand off.
15:35We will be looking to arrest other people in relation to us.
15:42It's a good chance that these people will know that you've been into custody.
15:46They may well think that you were the one that's given their names.
15:54Are you scared of them?
15:56No.
15:59All of a sudden you seem to look quite worried.
16:01Yeah.
16:04Some don't wish to name people they're involved with or to talk about it.
16:08And I can understand that.
16:11If they grass, they're going to go out of there.
16:14They're going to carry on their lives and it's going to be difficult.
16:17I do sometimes think that they're under quite a bit of pressure.
16:23To keep the code going, so to speak.
16:27Yeah?
16:28Yeah.
16:29See what we're having.
16:30Quite interesting.
16:31Yeah.
16:32All right then.
16:33I like being here.
16:34I like being in trouble.
16:35The suspected getaway driver, Phillip Stephenson, has been arrested.
16:41Phillip, do you want to pop yourself up here?
16:43Are you sure we don't want to drink or nothing?
16:47Okay Phillip, do you need help with reading or writing?
16:50No, I'm fine.
16:51Do you have any injuries?
16:52No, I'm not sure.
16:53Medical conditions?
16:54Fine.
16:55Self-hold?
16:56No, no, no.
16:57Not yet.
16:58Not yet.
16:59And you're feeling fine?
17:00Okay, any alcohol or drugs today?
17:02No, no, no, no.
17:04Are you allergic to anything?
17:05I'm a boxer, miss.
17:06What, you're boxing competitions?
17:08Boxing competitions, yeah.
17:09Unlicensed competitions, yeah.
17:10Unlicensed?
17:11Yeah, no.
17:12What?
17:13Unlicensed?
17:14Yeah.
17:15Oh, naughty boy.
17:16Have you won any fights?
17:18Yeah.
17:19Lots.
17:20I've had four fights and I've won seven, eight.
17:23Oh, that's good.
17:24Yeah, but I've never been back, I've never been lost because I've been beaten up.
17:27It's only because I lost because I just, just, just puffed out.
17:30Yeah.
17:31You know what I mean?
17:32Knackered.
17:33Give up.
17:34I'd rather give up than get knocked out, you know what I mean?
17:37Okay.
17:38Just sign for your fingerprints and your photographs, please.
17:41Oh, don't admit.
17:45Okay, Philip, you're going to go into a cell that does have a toilet.
17:48It has a buzzer to the left or right of the door, if you need anything.
17:52Okay.
17:53Are you allergic to, are you allergic to anything including food?
17:57No, no, no.
17:58Okay, lovely.
17:59Just sign there for me, please.
18:05Officers now want to link Philip Stevenson and two other suspects to Jamie Ricardo.
18:11I'm going to name some names now, okay?
18:13I appreciate when you brought all your names up so far.
18:15These are people I believe you know.
18:17The first person is .
18:21Do you know that name?
18:22To be honest, I've heard of the name.
18:24I can't say I know him personally.
18:26There's another person called .
18:28Do you know who that is?
18:30I've heard of it, I don't know him.
18:32So you've heard of the name, do you know him?
18:34I'm not personally, you know me.
18:36Do you know me?
18:38And then there's another person called Philip Stevenson.
18:43No comment.
18:46Why all of a sudden are you saying no comment?
18:48No.
18:50You said about the others, hey, you've heard the name, but...
18:53No, no comment, no comment, just heard the name.
18:55I don't know them, like, you know what I mean?
18:57I don't know them.
18:58Have you heard the name Philip Stevenson?
18:59I think so, yeah.
19:06All right, Philip, if you can just pop your chain, it's just outside the door.
19:14And as soon as they're ready, I'll let you know.
19:15Call Jim.
19:16Okay.
19:29I want to talk about gangs and looters.
19:31Gangs and looters?
19:34Gangs and looters, man.
19:35It's not gangs, man.
19:36It's just little kids that just got something mixed up in their head, man.
19:41I don't know what's going on.
19:42I bet they're just kids.
19:43They ain't no gangs, they're just kids, man.
19:46I'm some stupid John Wayne thing.
19:52It's a generation, innit?
19:53It's all gone mixed up.
19:56My generation, old school, principals, you know what I mean?
19:59You done it wrong, you get a slap.
20:01You have an issue with someone, you have a fight with them, you shake hands after.
20:08That's me.
20:10None of these guns, knives, all this.
20:13Oh, someone said something about you on Facebook, so you're going to go and stab them.
20:16That don't make no sense.
20:22You've got kids?
20:23Yeah, I do.
20:24I've got four.
20:27Are you a good dad?
20:28Yeah, man.
20:29Of course.
20:30I'm the best, man.
20:31They love me, innit?
20:32They love me.
20:33Yeah.
20:35Yeah, I think I'm a good dad anyway.
20:38You know what I mean?
20:39What kids don't go without, you know what I mean?
20:41We're going to go back in with Ricardo, we're only one interview of two.
20:57The robbery squad is preparing to interview Ricardo for a second time.
21:01Do you want me to come in with your bed?
21:04They believe his group is also responsible for the aggravated burglary which took place three days ago.
21:10If I'm being honest, unless he drops himself in it in any way, we haven't got anything on mine at the moment.
21:15We haven't got any forensics for the aggravated burglary, and they're all wearing balaclavas.
21:20Police need to establish a link between the two crimes via the getaway car.
21:25There's a vehicle, 54 plate for Mondeo, which has been linked to my offence.
21:30And the day before, that vehicle was seen in Houghton Regis with a bloke who refused to details,
21:35but he had quite a distinctive tattoo on his arm, which we now believe to be this avocado.
21:40That sounds promising then, doesn't it?
21:43A cross and chain tattoo coming down his right arm and finishing on the top of his hand.
21:46Where was he that night?
21:48Say, well, he's run after four people who got into a silver Mondeo, index number such and such.
21:54What do you know about that car? See what he says.
21:56If he says fuck all, say, well, you do know about that car because you were stopped in it with three other lads the night before.
22:01That's it, basically, isn't it?
22:03When Tim started asking about, are you under pressure, are you scared of them?
22:06He started thinking, fuck, they are going to be getting nicked and I'm going to be in the shit.
22:09Do you think he's scared of them?
22:10He's scared of them, I think.
22:12Mr. Ricardo?
22:16What?
22:17How are you doing?
22:18I'm so annoyed that I've been in a fucking bitch.
22:20With respect, we can keep you here for 24 hours and it's a serious investigation here for you.
22:24I don't know if you can push it to make it a bit quicker.
22:26The reason I've come down, what tattoo have you got on your arm?
22:31Yeah.
22:32Not that one, what's that one there?
22:33A cross and chain.
22:34Okay.
22:36I'm going to take a photograph of that.
22:42Okay, this is the second interview with Jamie Ricardo.
22:45And the other officer now present is...
22:47DC Layton, also attached to the robbery squad at Luton Police Station.
22:50What we're going to speak to you about now is an aggravated burglary.
22:53Okay, where were you on the 28th of March, 2014?
22:57It's a Friday night, just gone.
22:59I was at home in bed.
23:00And to be honest, mate, I know you're just taking pictures of my tattoos.
23:03Now you go on my face, but my tattoos are everywhere on Facebook.
23:05So everyone's bound to know where I've got them.
23:09Well, come on to that.
23:10Thanks.
23:14The information we have is that four males have attended that location.
23:18But I do suspect you are one of those people.
23:22He says that when he reopened the door, he was met with a male,
23:25stood in the doorway in a balaclava, who's pushed him forcefully back into his room.
23:30Whilst this was happening, one of the four males in balaclavas has put a knife to his throat
23:35and said, where's the money? I'm going to stab you if you don't give it.
23:39The most rewarding interview technique is revealing something at some stage of the interview that is a complete surprise to the person.
23:51As they've left the property, they've run past another male outside, who is a neighbour.
23:57He's seen this vehicle speed off.
23:59He's also managed to see a registration number for the vehicle.
24:02And that's a silver Ford Mondeo.
24:04I've got a statement from an officer called Sean the day before the aggravated burglary.
24:14He has seen a silver Ford Mondeo and the driver of this vehicle was Philip Stevenson.
24:26He says that there's a fourth male in the vehicle.
24:29He's got a crossing chain tattoo coming down his arm and finishing at the top of his hand.
24:34He was skinny to medium build, mixed race male with a local accent,
24:37who refused to give his details and got out of the car straight away and was on his phone.
24:43On my phone? On your phone? I didn't say it was you.
24:47That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying it was me.
24:49Well, you just said it was you. No, I didn't.
24:53Can I have a minute to talk to my slither?
24:55You've got all your fingers and thumbs?
25:07Yeah, four fingers from that hand first.
25:17We've got a choice of vegetable curry, chicken curry, or there's a beef lasagna.
25:21Yeah?
25:22Yeah.
25:23Stick that in there so I remember. Do you want to tea or coffee as well?
25:26Uh, some coffee, please.
25:28Milk and sugar?
25:29Milk and empty sugar.
25:31Cool.
25:32I'll put you back down in the air and then I'll bring you straight down to you, mate.
25:43It's clear that you were in the vehicle the day before.
25:46No comment.
25:48We can put you on an ID parade.
25:50This officer, he's 100% sure that he'd identify you again.
25:56And that will prove you to be a liar.
25:59And everything we've talked to you about today...
26:01You're going to look at it as a lie.
26:02Exactly.
26:03OK.
26:04This is my final, last chance to say if I was in the car or not ever been in that car, ain't it really?
26:09Yeah.
26:11In your prepared statements, you said, I don't like aggravated burglars, I wouldn't even do a burglary.
26:17That's what you're saying.
26:18Your disassociations with this offence.
26:20You've been linked to this offence via this car.
26:23And it is you that was in that car.
26:25I'm almost sure of that.
26:26If you're hanging around with these males, but you weren't associated to this aggravated burglary, this is your opportunity now to give that explanation.
26:34This is, this is it, Jamie.
26:44You were in the car with those males.
26:50We link those other males to this aggravated burglary.
26:53We have no choice to believe that you were involved in that.
26:59Were you in the vehicle on 27th of March?
27:04Do you have anything else you want to say?
27:10All right, you'll be glad to know then, we're done.
27:13And I'm concluding the interview.
27:20Don't we give the thing, I'll stop writing it out for you.
27:22Yeah.
27:35Howdy.
27:37Ah, buenas tardes.
27:40Well, that's interesting.
27:42What happened then?
27:44He has denied any association with any of them.
27:47And the vehicle.
27:49Oh.
27:50It started going no comment.
27:52Brought in the evidence about the car on the 27th, he was shitting himself.
27:54Custody then.
27:55I need to go and speak to them, innit, about remanding him.
27:59They're both knife points.
28:00Both victims have sustained injuries as a result from the, from the weapon.
28:04Yeah.
28:05And I've got all the other stuff.
28:06I'll go and speak to custody.
28:07Riccardo can only be remanded in custody if the Crown Prosecution Service agree there's enough evidence to charge.
28:17P.A.M. 2137.
28:18Your phone's back then.
28:19Finished.
28:20Start.
28:21Make your first day in.
28:22Hang on.
28:23I'm stood right here.
28:24Just be patient.
28:25Fucking people.
28:26Sorry.
28:27Yeah, give us a couple of minutes and we'll get you up and sort out.
28:28No worries.
28:30Right, you don't need to keep tapping this.
28:31I'm sorry.
28:32I'm sorry.
28:33I'm sorry.
28:34I'm sorry.
28:35I'm sorry.
28:36I'm sorry.
28:37I'm sorry.
28:38I'm sorry.
28:39I'm sorry.
28:40I'm sorry.
28:41I'm sorry.
28:42I'm sorry.
28:43I'm sorry.
28:45I'm sorry.
28:46I'm sorry.
28:47Look at this.
28:48I'm stood just there.
28:49You can just press the buzzer instead.
28:50Okay?
28:51Give me one more.
28:52Yes.
28:53Two seconds.
28:54I can't get it.
28:55Right.
28:56Quick slurp of my tea.
28:58The robbery squad now needs to interview Philip Stephenson, the suspected getaway driver.
29:03He's linked to both the motor house pub robbery and the aggravated burglary.
29:08We're on the robbery.
29:09We're looking.
29:10This is the one at the motor house.
29:11Yep.
29:12We're also going to ask him, does he drive a vehicle?
29:14That gets it in there, doesn't it?
29:15And then we'll speak to him about Jamie Ricardo.
29:18Yes.
29:19Don't get in this situation.
29:21This ain't good.
29:23It's boiling and it stinks.
29:25So don't bother coming here, innit?
29:27Stay at home.
29:29We'll then ask him about the aggravated burglary.
29:32Yeah.
29:33Obviously on the 27th of March.
29:35The day before the offence.
29:36Yeah.
29:37At 2,000 hours.
29:38Yeah.
29:39Where were you?
29:40Yeah.
29:41I can tell you where you were.
29:42Yeah.
29:43You were sitting in a car with three other males.
29:44Yeah.
29:45Tell me about that incident.
29:46Stopped by the old bell.
29:47Job done, Cathy.
29:48I can't have nothing.
29:49It's not nice.
29:50They give you magazines.
29:52Yeah.
29:53From about three years ago.
29:55It's not nice really.
29:57You know what I mean?
29:58And most of the magazines I like sell women's magazines.
30:01You know what I mean?
30:02OK or Take or something like that.
30:05What would you like to read?
30:07Soaps.
30:08Undercover Soaps.
30:09Yeah.
30:10I like my soaps.
30:11Yeah mate.
30:12What are you missing?
30:13Oh, am I missing?
30:14It's Friday.
30:15EastEnders, all of them.
30:16Corrie, Emmerdale, the lot mate.
30:17The whole shebang.
30:18Miss them.
30:19We ain't got to put them on replay now, ain't I?
30:20Detectives will first question Steve.
30:22What do you like to read?
30:23What do you like to read?
30:24Soaps.
30:25Undercover Soaps.
30:26Yeah.
30:27I like my soaps.
30:28Yeah mate.
30:29What are you missing?
30:30What am I missing?
30:31Oh, it's Friday.
30:32EastEnders, all of them.
30:33Corrie, Emmerdale, the lot mate.
30:34The whole shebang.
30:35Miss them.
30:36First question, Stevenson, in relation to the robbery with a meat cleaver outside the
30:40moat house pub.
30:43Your client has been arrested on suspicion of robbery.
30:47Went to purchase a bag of cannabis from Jamie Ricciardo in the old moat house car park
30:52in Moat Lane, Luton.
30:54Two other males have turned up and tried to force into the vehicle.
30:57The blade put to his wrist and demands made for property.
31:01Managed to struggle free and escape but discovered that his Samsung phone, car key and cash had
31:05been taken.
31:06That thing there is a load of bollocks.
31:09This geezer is chatting absolutely poo.
31:12Right.
31:13Simple as that.
31:14Right?
31:15Me and my mate went to buy a bag of weed off him.
31:17A few bags of weed, yeah?
31:18Went to buy off him.
31:20Right?
31:21It all went a bit sour.
31:22The food turned out to be gone off milk and, in other words, just rubbish quality.
31:27And we were just...
31:28One of my mates, I was with, turned around and said, listen mate, you can fuck off if you're
31:32not getting no money for that.
31:33You took the weed.
31:34And that was that.
31:35And that was all that happened on that one there.
31:37Right.
31:38At any point, did you see a knife?
31:41No.
31:42Oh yeah.
31:43Yeah, I did actually.
31:44On the back of him when he got out of the car.
31:46How would you hold that?
31:47And if you got CCTV footage, you would see that when he got out of the car.
31:51Down the back down here.
31:52Right down here.
31:53Yeah?
31:54So let's hold that one.
31:55Yeah?
31:56Yeah.
31:57Yeah.
31:58Let's have that.
31:59That's what I'm talking about, yeah?
32:00There's people out here.
32:01That's what I'm talking about.
32:02I've just asked you about a knife.
32:03Yeah.
32:04Okay.
32:05And I've said to you about a knife.
32:06And you're now saying that we had a knife.
32:07Yes.
32:08We had no knife.
32:09I'm telling you.
32:10That's what my question is to you.
32:11Did you have a knife?
32:12No.
32:13No.
32:14Okay.
32:15And did you see anybody threaten with a knife?
32:17No.
32:18Did you threaten with a knife?
32:19No.
32:20And you're saying that the other two males, you didn't see them with a knife.
32:23Yeah.
32:24Is that correct, Philip?
32:25That is correct.
32:26You don't have to keep that.
32:27Is that correct, Philip?
32:28That is correct.
32:29Seriously.
32:30So, tell me how this deal was set up, then.
32:32Was there a telephone conversation?
32:33Yeah.
32:34No.
32:35I think even texts, because I think even one of the people that you might even have cut
32:39in custody have the texts on his phone.
32:41I'm not too sure.
32:42Right.
32:43Okay.
32:44So, who arranged the deal?
32:45Huh?
32:46Just a mate of mine.
32:47Just a mate.
32:48Just a mate.
32:49Just a mate.
32:50Just a mate.
32:51Just a mate.
32:52You know what I mean?
32:53Just a man one.
32:54Well, you've just said to me, it's one of the mates that we've, one of the people that
33:00we've probably had in custody.
33:01Jamie.
33:02Jamie.
33:03Jamie.
33:04Jamie.
33:05Right.
33:06Right.
33:07So, when we say Jamie, I think I know who you're talking about.
33:08Yeah.
33:09I don't need to say any more than that.
33:10The name that we've mentioned here is Ricardo.
33:12Maybe.
33:13So, if we say, are we talking about Jamie Ricardo?
33:15Maybe, yeah.
33:16Okay.
33:20I remember when I first sort of got involved in crime, and what my DS at the time said,
33:25the trick of it is, is when you're trying to get something from somebody that doesn't
33:28want to tell you it, is, use the analogy, look, you're standing on the end of the cliff
33:33right now, and you're leaning forward, and I'm behind you holding on to your collar.
33:40You can go one of two ways, you can either fall, fall down that way, or I can pull you
33:47back in.
33:48And if you, you know, if you give us information that leads to an arrest and detection of a crime,
33:54then that will be something that's more than likely to pull you back in.
33:59If not, then you take your chances and you fall down the cliff.
34:05We've been to our CPS.
34:08They've decided to charge you with some offences that I'll read out to you shortly.
34:12Before I do that, I need to caution you again.
34:15You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now something
34:18which you're later relying on in court.
34:20Anything you do say may be given in evidence.
34:22With just 15 minutes left, the Crown Prosecution Service has decided that Ricardo can be charged.
34:28So how come you decided to keep me till tomorrow then?
34:31Okay.
34:32I'll go through that with you in a sec.
34:33There are several reasons you'll be in CPS.
34:36One is to prevent interference with justice.
34:38Two, failing to surrender to custody.
34:41And also people that are outstanding, we believe, are quite dangerous in relation to this.
34:48And the fact that you've been in custody, they may feel that you're the one that's provided their names.
34:53And we don't want you, obviously, to come to any harm in relation to that.
34:58That's not my problem, is it?
35:00Sorry?
35:01That's not my problem, is it? That's how you feel.
35:04So, you say that Jamie arranged it.
35:15Yeah.
35:16Okay.
35:17And how did you get involved then?
35:19Just went with him.
35:21In a car?
35:22Yeah.
35:23Okay, what car were you in?
35:26Huh?
35:27What car?
35:28I don't even know, a silver car.
35:30A silver car?
35:31Yeah.
35:32Who was driving the car?
35:35Huh?
35:36Who was driving the car?
35:37Who was driving the car?
35:38Who was driving the car?
35:39Hmm.
35:42I don't know.
35:43See, I think I know who was driving the car.
35:45Who was driving the car?
35:46No, I was driving the car.
35:48Right.
35:49See what I'm on there?
35:50Right, okay.
35:51It's not my car.
35:52Okay.
35:53But I'm not about to get in trouble for a mobile phone.
35:55I ain't going to do that.
35:56Okay.
35:57Sorry, I'm not going to do it.
35:58I'm not some little thief.
36:01I work hard, yeah?
36:02Philip, Philip.
36:03No, but I will get wound up over stuff like that.
36:05Yeah, but Philip, Philip.
36:06Because people like him, yeah?
36:07These people like him, you shouldn't even be selling it, yeah?
36:09Yeah?
36:10Or like...
36:11Well, you were going to buy it.
36:12Yeah, so I smoke weed.
36:13I smoke weed.
36:14I'm a ganja man.
36:15Okay.
36:16I spun weed hard, yeah?
36:17Right.
36:18I don't care.
36:19I'm a man who promotes weed.
36:20I'll walk out there in the street smoking ganja like that, yes.
36:22Yeah?
36:23I'm just saying, that makes me sick to the bone, mate.
36:26Right.
36:27Philip.
36:28I'm back.
36:29Sorry.
36:30Good.
36:31I'm sorry.
36:32We have...
36:33Right.
36:34I had to get that out, mate.
36:35I know.
36:36I really did.
36:37I know.
36:38Okay, the reason why I'm pulling you back into this interview is you said you do know about
36:39this incident involving a male that you now know is probably called ****.
36:43You go in the silver car.
36:44Yeah.
36:45Okay.
36:46What is the registration of that vehicle?
36:48I don't know yet.
36:49Any part of the registration?
36:51A 54 plate.
36:52It's a 54 plate.
36:54If I said to you, November Victor...
36:58Maybe.
36:59Go on.
37:00November Victor ****.
37:02Could be it.
37:03Could that be the vehicle that we're talking about?
37:05Could be, yeah.
37:06And it's a silver monday, is that correct?
37:08It's a silver monday, yeah.
37:09Oh, yeah.
37:10Is that correct?
37:11Yeah.
37:12You've arranged to meet at the moat house.
37:15Jamie's sitting where in the car?
37:17In the front.
37:18Front?
37:19Yeah.
37:20You're sitting in the driver's seat?
37:21Yeah.
37:22Okay.
37:23He got in the car quite happily on his own.
37:25He got in the rear of the vehicle, happens to you?
37:28Quite happily on his own.
37:29Yeah.
37:30Yeah.
37:31Quite happily.
37:32Yeah.
37:33And obviously he left the car not happy.
37:35You took the weed with you?
37:36We took the weed with us, yeah.
37:37Yeah.
37:38We took the weed with us.
37:39Yeah.
37:40Yeah.
37:41So you took the weed that was rubbish with you?
37:42Yeah.
37:43Of course.
37:44What do you mean, coarse?
37:45Yeah.
37:46I'm not going to fucking pay for it, am I?
37:47It's like shit.
37:48Teach him a lesson for selling your shit weed.
37:51Thank you, miss.
37:52Someone's on the ball.
37:54That's why he's made this allegation?
37:56What?
37:57Because you've stolen his weed?
37:58Yeah, of course.
37:59And I can't...
38:00That's why...
38:01Sorry.
38:02That's why I got wound up.
38:03Because I can't stand people that do that.
38:04It don't make no sense.
38:05That's sick.
38:06Yeah, but he's obviously...
38:07He's failed to mention that his weed's got stolen.
38:09Yeah.
38:10He's saying his phones have got stolen.
38:11No, I promise you.
38:12I was putting it down on my kit.
38:13No phone has got to...
38:15I'd never go to jail for nicking a phone, or stupid things like that, or drink driving.
38:19Stuff like that.
38:20Driving on a band.
38:21I'm not into that sort of stuff.
38:22But you might go to prison for nicking shit weed.
38:39OK.
38:40I'm now going to move on to the next matter, which is the aggravated burglary, which has
38:45occurred on Friday the 28th of March.
38:47Right, so last Friday...
38:48Well, we just came back from work.
38:50Getting high somewhere, mate.
38:52Getting high.
38:53Getting high.
38:54I'll say it straight.
38:55Probably out there getting drunk.
38:5611 o'clock at night.
38:57Sinking cocaine.
38:58Yeah, probably.
38:59Definitely more than likely.
39:00Yeah, 100%.
39:01I don't know you're feeling...
39:02No, no, that is it.
39:03Right, well, it's up to you, Philip.
39:05It's up to you, Philip.
39:06Well, that's it then, isn't it?
39:07Done.
39:08I didn't...
39:09I wasn't there.
39:10I have nothing to do with this, yeah?
39:11OK.
39:12Just don't look at me, miss.
39:13Yeah, yeah.
39:14I was not there.
39:15OK.
39:16I'm going to sit here and tell you like that, yeah?
39:17But that is it.
39:18OK, OK.
39:19I'm going to give you some names and I'm going to ask you if you know these people.
39:22Do you know a male called ****?
39:25I don't know all of him.
39:26Right, but you don't actually sit in his company.
39:28Is that what you're saying to me?
39:29Yeah, that's actually what I'm saying to him.
39:30OK.
39:31What about ****?
39:33I don't know him, mate.
39:35All right, and you've already told me that you know Jamie Ricciardo, don't you?
39:38Yeah, yeah.
39:39Do you know him quite well, Jamie?
39:40No, really.
39:41I just know him, innit?
39:42He's from my farm, innit?
39:43He's from the estate.
39:44Simple as that.
39:45Do you remember when the old bill pulled you over in the Mondeo?
39:50Yeah.
39:51Well, that was the day before.
39:53Huh?
39:54That was the day before this alleged offence.
39:57OK.
39:58Does that put it into any perspective of you being able to tell us exactly where you were
40:01on the day after you were pulled over by us lot?
40:05I got pulled over in Halton Regis.
40:07I don't understand that.
40:08So why are you bringing that up?
40:09I'm sorry.
40:10Right, right.
40:11Let me just go.
40:12No, no, because you remember that day quite clearly.
40:15No, I just remember getting pulled over and getting harassed and my phone getting lost
40:19because of your **** colleagues have sat there, took my **** car apart for no reason,
40:24but I lose my phone, innit?
40:25Well, thanks to that, though.
40:26Right.
40:27Because of Bob, he's on the beat there, mate.
40:29I'd rather not talk about that because I actually got very pissed off that night.
40:32Right.
40:33Well, let's just...
40:34Well, I am going to slightly go on to that.
40:35No, you're not.
40:36No comment on that now.
40:37That's it.
40:38Done.
40:39I don't want to have no interview.
40:40I'm not happy to sit in this interview anymore.
40:41Listen to me.
40:42The day before being the 27th of March, as you rightly say, you were in Halton Regis
40:49with three other people in the car.
40:51Yes.
40:52Is that right?
40:53Yes.
40:54The 27th and the 28th.
40:56What happened to that car, then?
40:59Why?
41:00I don't know, I see what you're saying.
41:01Because that's only one day now.
41:03Yeah, I don't know.
41:05Pardon?
41:06I don't know where the car was.
41:07I did the car back then.
41:08Done.
41:09I don't know where the car went.
41:10Who was in the vehicle when it was stopped?
41:12Erm...
41:14Yourself?
41:15Yeah.
41:16You were the driver, is that correct?
41:17That's it.
41:18And who else was in the car?
41:19I don't know.
41:20I'm not happy to sit here and sit.
41:21Well, Jamie Ricciardo was in the car.
41:22And I'm not happy to say who else was in the car.
41:24Well, I know who else was in the car because they gave their details.
41:27Why are you sitting asking me for them?
41:29Yeah?
41:31Yeah.
41:32An 18-year-old boy you said that you don't really associate with.
41:35Yeah, I don't really associate with that.
41:36But he's sitting in your car.
41:37Yeah, so what's that got to do with that?
41:39And the other person in the vehicle was ****.
41:42Right, that's who that guy is then.
41:45Yes, I knew, I knew.
41:46When you said the name, when you said the name, if you listen to me now, please.
41:50Listen to me.
41:51Four males seen with that vehicle the next day involved an aggravated burglary.
41:58What, and all four males had to do with that, the burglary?
42:02I don't know, Philip.
42:03I'm asking you.
42:04Well, no, I don't know.
42:06All right, I've got no further questions for you.
42:09Is there anything further you wish to add, Philip, before I conclude this interview?
42:12No.
42:13No.
42:14Well, before I do that, let me just ask my colleague if she's got any questions related to the aggravated
42:18burglary.
42:19No.
42:20OK.
42:21Thank you, Miss.
42:24Let me just, let me just...
42:25This woman's hard work she is, mate.
42:27I tell you.
42:28Let me just, let me just...
42:30Is there anything else you wish to say before I conclude this interview?
42:33Miss, you need to get a fucking sense of humor, mate.
42:37Yay!
42:42I've got to say, that was probably one of the most challenging interviews I've done for
42:46a little while.
42:47I'm sorry, Miss.
42:48Only because, Philip, you have a lot to say in different ways.
42:51Oh, dear.
42:52You've been rung.
42:53OK, fine.
42:54I've got the crime numbers.
42:55I can give them a ring and let them know the good news.
43:09Hello, so it's DS Simon Hancock from Loot and Robbery Squad.
43:13Sorry if I've interrupted the football.
43:18I'm just ringing really to let you know because DC Warden's occupied with some paperwork,
43:23but we've gone to the Crown Prosecution Service and they've authorised us to charge somebody
43:30with attacking ****.
43:32Do you know anyone who lives up on my farm?
43:34No.
43:35You don't?
43:36Sergeant Hancock and his team can now update the victims of the crime.
43:40The two other suspects were also arrested and bailed.
43:47All the people that have been arrested in relation to this, they're all from Marsh Farm.
43:50They're not the sort of people that you want to have, you want to be messing with.
43:55These are the sort of people where if they think they're in the ****, which they are,
43:59we've got some good evidence against a couple of these, then they're likely to,
44:02rather than try and destroy evidence because they know we've got the evidence,
44:05they're likely to go to a different avenue and try and get to you.
44:10He's been here 24 hours so far.
44:15Well, anyway, well, he'll be happy then, won't he?
44:24OK, well, I'm glad we've surpassed his expectations.
44:29You're more than welcome. Bye.
44:37She's delighted.
44:38She says he didn't think we'd take it seriously and he didn't think that we'd detect it.
44:43Obviously, he hasn't never dealt with loot and robbery squad before, has he?
44:47Oh-oh!
45:00Time is zero, yeah!