- 2 days ago
John and Charles open with a discussion on the controversial nature of fringe sects that broke off from William Branham’s teachings, defending their decision to highlight them by pointing to the consistent pattern of extremism born from the main sect. They argue that the “main sect” of the movement is directly responsible for the rise of extremist figures and practices, even as it publicly disassociates from them. The episode takes a deeper look at how these splinter groups emerged, tracing their roots back to failures in leadership and accountability within the central institutions of Branhamism. John recounts his own upbringing in the main sect, sharing personal stories about the culture of tape churches, where Branham’s recordings replaced live preaching, often leaving congregants spiritually neglected.
Charles walks listeners through the organizational evolution of the main sect, especially in the decades following Branham’s death. He outlines the central institutions—William Branham Evangelistic Association, Branham Tabernacle, Voice of God Recordings, and Spoken Word Publications—arguing they were controlled by a faction known as the “Deity cult,” a group that worshipped Branham as God. Billy Paul Branham’s role as a behind-the-scenes power broker is explored in depth, along with his leadership style and the subsequent transition to his successor, “Prophet Junior.” The hosts assert that the main sect’s failure to confront misconduct, combined with the cultic reverence for Branham’s words, created fertile ground for abuse and manipulation.
00:00 Introduction
01:00 Roots of Extremism in the Main Group
02:46 Leadership Failure and Lack of Accountability
06:02 From Popular Evangelists to Doctrinal Collapse
07:32 How the Message Replaced Scripture
09:00 No Legal Recourse for Internal Abuse
10:23 Power Struggles After the Founder’s Death
12:27 Rise of the Tape Church Model
14:30 The Main Group Becomes Tape-Driven
16:05 Inside the Tape Church Experience
18:00 A Desert of Spiritual Guidance
20:04 Why Preaching Was Replaced with Recordings
22:01 Theological Justifications and Internal Conflicts
24:08 Competing Doctrines Within the Movement
26:58 A Story of Suffering, Tape Recordings, and Misrepresentation
28:58 Secret Takeovers and the Deity-Based Leadership
32:06 The Four Central Institutions
36:06 Faces and Brains: Who Really Ran Things
40:05 Billy Paul’s Quiet Control
42:17 Did He Ever Believe It?
45:01 The Power Transition and Emerging Cracks
47:58 Appointing Leaders Who Held Extreme Beliefs
50:00 Disconnect Between Doctrine and Leadership Image
51:08 The Strange Legacy of the Central Organization
52:15 Few Acknowledge the True Source of Control
53:11 Looking Ahead to the Institutional Timeline
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
Charles walks listeners through the organizational evolution of the main sect, especially in the decades following Branham’s death. He outlines the central institutions—William Branham Evangelistic Association, Branham Tabernacle, Voice of God Recordings, and Spoken Word Publications—arguing they were controlled by a faction known as the “Deity cult,” a group that worshipped Branham as God. Billy Paul Branham’s role as a behind-the-scenes power broker is explored in depth, along with his leadership style and the subsequent transition to his successor, “Prophet Junior.” The hosts assert that the main sect’s failure to confront misconduct, combined with the cultic reverence for Branham’s words, created fertile ground for abuse and manipulation.
00:00 Introduction
01:00 Roots of Extremism in the Main Group
02:46 Leadership Failure and Lack of Accountability
06:02 From Popular Evangelists to Doctrinal Collapse
07:32 How the Message Replaced Scripture
09:00 No Legal Recourse for Internal Abuse
10:23 Power Struggles After the Founder’s Death
12:27 Rise of the Tape Church Model
14:30 The Main Group Becomes Tape-Driven
16:05 Inside the Tape Church Experience
18:00 A Desert of Spiritual Guidance
20:04 Why Preaching Was Replaced with Recordings
22:01 Theological Justifications and Internal Conflicts
24:08 Competing Doctrines Within the Movement
26:58 A Story of Suffering, Tape Recordings, and Misrepresentation
28:58 Secret Takeovers and the Deity-Based Leadership
32:06 The Four Central Institutions
36:06 Faces and Brains: Who Really Ran Things
40:05 Billy Paul’s Quiet Control
42:17 Did He Ever Believe It?
45:01 The Power Transition and Emerging Cracks
47:58 Appointing Leaders Who Held Extreme Beliefs
50:00 Disconnect Between Doctrine and Leadership Image
51:08 The Strange Legacy of the Central Organization
52:15 Few Acknowledge the True Source of Control
53:11 Looking Ahead to the Institutional Timeline
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
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LearningTranscript
00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:41at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher, minister, and friend,
00:47Charles Paisley, the founder of christiangospelchurch.org, and the author of Come Out of Her, My People.
00:54Charles, it's good to be back and to talk about all things message-related and William Branham
00:59and Branhamism, and we're getting into the interesting part for me, the main sect.
01:06We've, in the past few episodes, we've been examining all of the extremists, and I know
01:11we're going to catch some heat in the comment feeds and already in my email about, you guys
01:16are picking the most extreme cases.
01:18This is not a good representation of what the message stands for.
01:22But I'm always going to go back to, Jesus said, you can tell the tree by the fruit that
01:27it bears, and that is the fruit of the message, whether you like it or not.
01:31And I'm also going to point to Dr. Stephen Hassan's book, Combating Cult Mind Control.
01:37If you understand how the mind control works, when you're indoctrinated in a cult that is
01:43training people that you must have a central figure, we always get the question, if not
01:48William Branham, who is our supreme leader, when you've been indoctrinated in that mindset
01:53and the leader dies, you're going to have people stepping up and claiming that they are
01:58the next thing closest to God.
02:00That's just how it works in a mind control cult.
02:04So even though the main sect may not propagate the same ideas as the extremists, what it does,
02:11it births new people who can become extremists later.
02:14So we're talking about the extremists that we've witnessed up to this point in time.
02:19There will be new extremists, and after that, there will be more new extremists, because
02:23it always goes back to, if the tree looks like this and it continues to bear the same fruit,
02:29it will always bear the same fruit, according to biblical scripture studies and according to
02:34even cult psychology studies.
02:36That's how this works.
02:38But now we're going to go and examine the trunk of this tree.
02:42I look forward to that, John.
02:43Yeah, we're getting into some interesting stuff.
02:46And, you know, I have maybe a little bit of a different perspective, you know, having
02:51looked at all this a little bit.
02:55And, you know, people in the main sect, John, are really always keen to say, that's not us.
03:00We didn't have anything to do with that.
03:02That was these crazy people over here, right?
03:06But the truth is, every single group that we've talked about up to this stage, with like
03:11two very minor exceptions, are directly branched out of the main sect of the message.
03:17Every single one of them, okay?
03:20All branched out.
03:21The polygamists, the celibates, the crazies, every branch of it came out of the main sect.
03:27And it is dishonest, it's wicked, it's corrupt and deceitful for them to pretend that they
03:34have no connection or relationship.
03:36In fact, the truth is, they are uniquely responsible for holding them all accountable, for doing
03:43stuff about it.
03:43And, to me, it is incredibly telling, right, that the reaction of people in the main sect
03:50is always, wasn't us, wasn't us, wasn't us, right?
03:54No, not only was it them, right, breakaways from them, they were uniquely responsible for
04:00holding those people accountable and bringing those situations under control.
04:04And they failed.
04:05They failed in their biblical responsibilities.
04:08They failed in their leadership abilities.
04:10I mean, it's absolutely all failures of the main sect that every one of these other splinter
04:14groups exist to begin with.
04:16And so, contrary to what they want to say, they are absolutely fully, wholly, and completely
04:22accountable for everything that has branched out of them.
04:26And it was their failure to have controls in place in the begin with to let it all happen.
04:30And so, I have a very, very accountable view towards the main sect of the message, and
04:37then so forth, the others, everything that's split out of them.
04:40Yeah.
04:41But you're right, John.
04:42We're going into the main sect of the message itself, okay?
04:47And I'm really looking forward to chatting about that.
04:50There's so much there.
04:51There's so much there for us to talk about, John.
04:53And I know you're from the main sect itself.
04:56And just for our listeners' sake, in case maybe today's the first time they're joining
04:59us, you're from the main sect.
05:00I'm from probably what is the first splinter group out of the main sect, which broke away in
05:05the 60s, right after William Branham died.
05:08And so, we're kind of exploring the sects of the message, and we made it all our way
05:13finally to the granddaddy of them all, the main sect of the message.
05:19And it's such a mess.
05:21I mean, there's so much to talk about.
05:23The thing I want to point out to further emphasize what you just said, yes, a lot of the extremists
05:28came out of the main sect.
05:30And, you know, I grew up in the main sect, so I watched this happen.
05:34And I'm unfortunately getting older in years, so I have seen things happen that many of
05:39the younger generation have not.
05:41But if you examine some of the more extreme leaders, those who were involved in financial
05:48scandals or those who went crazy with sexual stuff, there was a point in time in which they
05:55were well-respected in the message among the leadership.
05:58And there were times when, you know, I've been in all kinds of different churches.
06:02I have seen numerous people who were traveling evangelists who would, they'd travel a circuit
06:08within the main sect.
06:09And you'd go visit this church that we used to go to in one of the cities and states that
06:14I lived in.
06:15And then they would go to this other one, and then this other one.
06:17And so, they're traveling the circuit preaching.
06:19And they're lifted up as though they're this great spiritual figure because they're doing
06:24God's work.
06:25But then, whenever they go extreme, which continues to be the case, some of them are just outright
06:32lambasted by the same people that invited them to the pulpit.
06:36That's the funny part.
06:37So, there's this air of spiritual significance in the early part of their ministry whenever
06:43everybody's getting along.
06:45And then suddenly, there are doctrines of demons coming out of them.
06:48But what's interesting about that is, while they're on the inn with the crowd, some of
06:54those doctrines of demons, as they call it, become integrated into message canon.
07:00Because the way that these people preach, if you're on the outside of this looking in,
07:05it's hard to understand this.
07:07When you think about preaching, you think about some man standing behind a pulpit, and he's
07:11opening his Bible, and let's talk about this passage from the book of John.
07:16And then, you start making the Bible come alive to your listeners.
07:20Well, that's not the way it is in the main sect of the message.
07:24What it is, instead of the Bible, they will open up the Bible, and they may read one verse
07:28or two.
07:29But I have seen countless ministers who, after they do this, they open up a message of William
07:36Branham in one of those little blue books, and they set it either beside or on top of
07:40the Bible.
07:42And I've heard the claim that it's like looking down the sights of a gun.
07:48You peer down the sights, and the hindsight that we have right here is the Bible.
07:53But you really need William Branham on that other sight, so the message, the spoken word,
07:58is the other sight to hit your target.
08:01And so what they do, they open up the Bible, and it becomes secondary.
08:03Then they open up William Branham's sermons, and instead of making the Bible come alive,
08:09they try to make William Branham's sermons come alive, and they tell allegories and stories
08:14and their own supernatural experiences and their own experiences with William Branham, many
08:21of which aren't on any documentation anywhere else.
08:24But then those become part of the canon.
08:27And so those statements that they've made, which may or may not even be true, become accepted
08:33as part of the main sect's theology.
08:35I know just what you mean, John.
08:36I know just what you mean.
08:38And, you know, when you think about the main sect, too, and I'll go so far as even to throw
08:42in most of the other sects with this, John.
08:46You know, there's a lot of people who say all this bad stuff happened, and you're correct.
08:50There are a lot of people who will blast their enemies from the platform, right?
08:53But are you aware, John?
08:56I'm just, are you aware of a single time when any message leader in the main sect or the others
09:03ever turned someone into the police or their thefts or their rapes or their molestations?
09:09Did, right?
09:10And so while we can say, right?
09:12And while, yeah, sir, you all can say, yeah, we blasted some of these guys from our platforms.
09:17What a absolute failure of a response.
09:20That is not the appropriate way to respond to these things, right?
09:25No, you should have called the police on these people.
09:29You should have turned them in, right?
09:32Over and over and over, right?
09:35And so, again, message leaders, and especially message leaders in the main sect, some of whom
09:39we're going to talk about, absolutely failed in their responsibilities, right, as just even
09:44decent moral human beings in a lot of cases for failing to turn in some of the stuff that
09:49happened, right?
09:50J.T.
09:51Parnell should have been called in on the police, right?
09:54You go on down the list, all these guys, a lot of them should have been called and turned
09:58into the police for what they were doing, right?
10:01Because there was a lot of really horrendous stuff that happened over the years.
10:04That's just one example.
10:06Gene and Leo, right?
10:07You can just go on down the list.
10:09Somebody should have called the police on these people, and they should have been locked
10:13up for what they were doing.
10:15Now, as we kind of break over and start talking about these guys, John, as we look at the
10:23main sect of the message, maybe I'll just start by recapping just a little bit of some
10:27of the stuff we've covered through this period of time.
10:32So basically what I've been doing, John, I'm walking through my book, Come Out Over My
10:36People, Volume 2, and it goes all the way from 1966 to 2005.
10:40I've kind of just been tracing the history of each of the major sects of the message through
10:45that period.
10:45And what you have is William Branham dies.
10:49We walked through how there was basically a hostile takeover of the message by Billy
10:56Paul shortly after William Branham died.
10:59Billy Paul was somebody, when William Branham died, he had a very poor reputation in the community.
11:05He was recently divorced and remarried, and that just brought just terrible repercussions
11:13with it, the way people looked at him.
11:15Besides that, you had Perry Green, who had just kind of, really kind of showed up out
11:20of nowhere in the last year and a half before William Branham died and was kind of elbowing
11:25his way in.
11:25And the two of them together, John, the perspective of my sect of the message is they overthrew everybody
11:33else.
11:34They overthrew the Tabernacle Board.
11:36They overthrew the community out in Arizona through Perry Green.
11:39And basically set up shop over probably roughly half of the message at that point.
11:47Maybe a little more than half.
11:48And as that happens, we talked through how the tape churches started to rise up in that
11:57period.
11:57And as the fight started to happen through that, you had a period of time where the preaching
12:05ministers in Jeffersonville tried to resist the takeover with Ormond Neville and Raymond
12:10Jackson, different ones here.
12:12That all failed.
12:13And basically the tape churches got implemented starting here in Jeffersonville as a way to
12:18more or less, a way in my sect of the message to look at it, to silence the preachers who
12:22were resisting Billy Paul and that main sect takeover.
12:26And as your grandfather comes back here to Jeffersonville and the tape church more or less becomes set in
12:35stone at the Branham Tabernacle, you start to see the come together, this accumulation of
12:42a number of other churches that start adopting the tape church model.
12:46And they form kind of the nucleus and an important faction of the main sect of the message early
12:52on.
12:53Other really notable churches of that group were like Paul Brewer's church in Missouri,
12:59Earl and John Martin's church in Arkansas, Jack Palmer's church in Georgia.
13:04And you see a faction of churches come together that are very intent on playing tapes as the
13:12main part of their service.
13:13And what happens is as time goes on, as the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and all of these schisms
13:23that we've been talking about, you know, Estelle Beeler breaks away, the Faith Assembly Fellowship
13:28breaks away, J.T.
13:30Parnell breaks away, the Paul Azir Lowry's break away, the Parnell's break away, the Joseph
13:38Coleman breaks away with all their groups, Lee Vale breaks away with his groups, Ewald Frank
13:43breaks away with his groups.
13:44You just keep on going down that list.
13:47As all of that is happening, the percentage of churches in the main sect that have live
13:52preaching is shrinking, shrinking, shrinking.
13:55And the tape churches are becoming more and more the majority, because it's mainly the preaching
13:58churches that are leaving.
14:00And it's through this period of time that the control of message literature and control of
14:07all the recordings becomes very important to the central institutions.
14:11And as you come up into the 90s, late 80s and 90s, as the copyright wars unfold and as
14:17that last major schism really rocks the main sect of the message, you come up to the other
14:22side of that, probably by the mid to late 90s, where the tape churches are the majority of
14:28the main sect of the message.
14:30And so the first thing I wanted to point out was just that kind of that demographic shift
14:33that happens in the main sect over the decades, the natural result of a lot of the schisms
14:39is the tape churches rise to become the majority and the most influential portion in the main
14:46sect of the message.
14:47I would agree with that.
14:48Most of the main sect churches that I visited, they either solely preached by playing the recordings
14:55of William Branham from 1947 to 1965.
14:58Or they did this weird combination where they might preach on Sunday morning sometimes, and
15:06then Sunday evening, Wednesday night, and often services in between, they would be listening
15:12to these recordings and brainwashing the crowd.
15:15So I grew up like this.
15:16When you entered into the Branham Tabernacle, anybody who visited was a little shocked because
15:22they were all dressed up in their fancy clothes and they come and sat down and my grandfather
15:27would introduce the recording of William Branham and then say, hey, brother, so-and-so back
15:32in the tape room, press play on that tape.
15:35And they would press play and everybody would just sit there and calmly, quietly try to make
15:42it look like they were having some sort of spiritual excitement in this service.
15:47But they're sitting there and you can tell it on the kids' minds, man.
15:50They're bored out of their minds.
15:52My grandfather and the associate pastor were sitting on these big, large chairs on the
15:59platform watching everybody listen to a tape.
16:02That's how this sermon went down, man.
16:05And as a kid, you're counting the number of holes in the ceiling tiles.
16:09And as, you know, some of the, I've talked to some adults who, some of them are still in
16:15the message, but they said that, you know, it's just really hard in the Branham Tabernacle.
16:20You sit there and you're bored out of your mind because you've already listened to these
16:23recordings over and over in your own home.
16:26And then you go sit there and try to pretend like it's exciting.
16:29And I'm thinking about what, what restaurant are we going to after the service?
16:33That's, that's a paraphrased actual quote from a guy who, uh, I think he's still in the message,
16:38but the, you know, that's wrong.
16:41That's the way that they're doing it.
16:43And it's wrong because not only are they trying to say that the statements made in the forties,
16:51fifties, and sixties are good enough for today.
16:54And therefore we can listen to them, but people come to church looking for spiritual guidance
16:59and the things happening during that era don't even closely resemble what is happening today.
17:07So all of the problems that people face today, they're left to face them alone.
17:11So when they enter these churches, they're, there's just zero spiritual guidance.
17:16And if they try to get counsel from the ministers after the service or, you know,
17:21meeting in the homes or whatever, the, often the ministers in the main sec will point to the
17:26recordings and say things like, well, if it was good enough for back then, it's good enough for
17:31today.
17:32So just immerse yourself in the recordings.
17:34You'll get your answer.
17:36And they bypass the spiritual counsel altogether.
17:39So when you join one of these churches, you're basically in a spiritual sense, you're in this
17:45spiritual desert.
17:46There is nothing for you.
17:48Those are some great observations, John.
17:50And I think that that's very true.
17:52Very true.
17:53I know in the churches I come from, like they, and most of the other sects of the message,
17:59the fact that the main sect plays tapes rather than has consistent live preaching is generally
18:07a massive point of contention today between the main sect.
18:11And it's always been a, it's really always been a contention really from day one when they
18:15started doing it.
18:16Um, I know a lot of the preachers in the other sects of the message, they view the, the pressure
18:23to establish a tape church or convert to a tape church.
18:26They view that as a more or less an attempt by the main sect to shut them up basically.
18:33And that, I have to say to, in my opinion, that probably did play a major role.
18:39I really think that is a substantial part of the, the leadership of the main sect.
18:43I think that's absolutely in their thinking is it's not, you know, press play, it's shut
18:50up and press play.
18:51Like, I think you could add the word shut up in front of the press play and you would be
18:56getting the, um, getting the, the emphasis probably just as accurate from what the, you
19:02know, the leaders in the main sect want.
19:05We don't want to hear what you have to say, shut up, press play, right?
19:08And that is, that is how a lot of the other sects of the message, they hear the word shut
19:13up before press play, uh, from the main sect.
19:15But I, I think, I think the viewpoint in the main sect though, to be fair, is different.
19:20I think the average rank and file don't look at it that way.
19:23I think the average rank and file looks at it as, and I believe I've heard this articulated
19:29more or less directly, William Brownham brought the perfect revelation.
19:32The perfect has come.
19:34Why do we need a middleman?
19:35Let's just press play and get, you know, get the perfect from the source.
19:39And that is, I believe, the official rationale as to why tapes are played.
19:43I don't know, John, did you ever, was it ever explained why we play tapes as opposed to,
19:48you know, have a preacher preach a sermon?
19:51Like, what's the, do you know an official explanation for that?
19:55Well, there, it depends on who you talk to and where you were at the time.
19:58I remember that there was this guy who wasn't even a parishioner of the Branham Tabernacle,
20:06but he would often, frequently come to the tabernacle.
20:09And he would get forcibly ejected from the meetings.
20:14And he would, I'm told, I wasn't there to witness this, but I'm told by multiple family
20:19members and multiple deacons that in some times it actually broke out into a fist fight.
20:24The guy was, he had a temper.
20:25He, the funny part is he was a really close friend of the family.
20:28I wish I could say who he was, but anyway, this guy was a fighter.
20:32And the reason he was forcibly ejected is because the Branham Tabernacle was already a tape church.
20:40You came dressed in your Sunday school clothes and you sat down and set board for, these tapes
20:46aren't short.
20:47They're sometimes two and a half hours long.
20:49So you're sitting there.
20:50Well, there's some over three one hours even.
20:51Yeah, some over three.
20:52I mean, this is, it is torture.
20:54It is torture to do this, right?
20:57And this guy's screaming like a Nazi through these recordings.
21:00People have, people on the outside of this message cult have no idea what this is like.
21:05But anyway, this guy came to these services.
21:09My grandfather would, I'm using the word loosely, preach Sunday school, which usually consisted
21:16of him telling stories of his wonderful experiences with William Branham.
21:20And he would always, he would open with a Bible verse.
21:24And I think most times, if I recall correctly, we would, as a congregation, read a psalm together.
21:31But then he would tell these spiritual experiences, which are, me and Brother Branham, we're going
21:37down the road one day and we saw a coffee shop and we stopped and he told me the most wonderful
21:43thing.
21:44That's how my grandfather would do.
21:46And it would always point back to the Bible verse.
21:48So it was like the sermon wasn't even about the Bible.
21:52It was about this thing that happened to him and he saw how it connected to the Bible.
21:58That's probably the easiest and best way I can say it.
22:01Well, this guy would come in and he would hear my grandfather doing this and he wanted
22:07nothing but the recordings.
22:09He thought it was complete heresy for anybody who is a minister to preach because by William
22:15Branham's own words, the message and the messenger are one in the same.
22:20If you add another person to this mix, you have a different messenger.
22:24He was actually more closely aligned to the message than the message cult itself.
22:29And he wanted my grandfather to shut up.
22:32So the shut up phrase that you're using, that's what he did.
22:37Well, he would create such a ruckus.
22:38They would have to forcibly eject him and he would come to fistfights.
22:41So if you ask him, the reason why people play tapes is solely because of what William Branham
22:48said.
22:48The message and the messenger are one in the same.
22:51You can't have another messenger.
22:52Otherwise, look at the extremists that we have.
22:56Their message has become one in the same with them and they're isolated from the other group.
23:02So in this guy's mind, my grandfather was trying to rise up to be another replacement of
23:06William Branham by speaking.
23:07So in his eyes, that's what it was.
23:10On the flip side, you had all of these people who, the spiritual counsel, I can't stress that
23:18enough.
23:19The way in which they wanted you to find any comfort for whatever it is.
23:25If you have sin in your life, you go to the recordings.
23:28If you're seeking healing, you go to the recordings.
23:31No matter what it is in your life, you go to the recordings.
23:34I have, and this is common, I don't think anybody who is out there would object to this.
23:40If I were to be diagnosed with some, I don't know, kidney disease and suddenly by happenstance
23:48magically listen to a recording and catch that somebody in a prayer line had that same kidney
23:55disease, well, William Branham wasn't speaking just to them.
23:59He's also speaking to me, even though that recording was 1950s, whatever it is, and they
24:06accept their healing based on William Branham claiming to have healed another person, not
24:12knowing that that person may have died of that same disease.
24:15But that's how it works in the main sect.
24:18So some people you ask, it's because they're, you know, the message and the messenger are the
24:23same.
24:23Other people, it's because that is where you go for everything that you need spiritually
24:28speaking.
24:29That is really fascinating, John.
24:30Very interesting.
24:31Very interesting.
24:32You know, the main sect of the message, listening to the tapes, like I can understand their rationale,
24:38you know, in some extent, because, you know, the things that William Branham said, the sects
24:43of the message like that I come from or, you know, that are similar, they are more latter
24:48reign oriented in their model where they're more interested in the fivefold ministry stuff
24:56still, too, right?
24:57And they take the latter reign verses that you need the, what they would call the fivefold
25:01ministry for the perfecting of the saints.
25:03And so they fit, they fit this, they fit a continuation of preaching and a continuation
25:09of preachers into the necessity to reach manifested sons of God.
25:13And so you have to think, all of these sects are obsessed with manifested sons of God, right?
25:19And so I think in part what we're talking about here is a difference of opinion about
25:24how to get there.
25:26You know, the main sect thinks we're going to get there through the tapes because we've
25:29got the perfect, but the other sects that still embrace preaching, you know, they take
25:34the fivefold ministry, the fivefold ministry verses and say, well, we also still need a
25:38preaching ministry to get to the perfecting of the saints.
25:41So you have this, at a doctrinal level in the teachings, you have this fight between
25:47the two sects, right?
25:48And it comes back to their different interpretations of the message as well.
25:52Once I perhaps being still a little bit more leaning towards the original latter reign teachings.
25:58It's fascinating, isn't it, John?
26:00Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern
26:06Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic, and other fringe movements
26:11into the new apostolic reformation?
26:13You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website, william-branham.org.
26:21On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles
26:27Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and
26:33digital versions of each book.
26:35You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those
26:41movements.
26:41If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the Contribute
26:47button at the top.
26:48And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening
26:53to or watching.
26:55On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.
27:00So I'm going to open up and I'm going to tell a story that I've never told on here.
27:03Um, all of the parties involved are dead.
27:06So I can tell it now I've, I withhold things because I don't want to, their family, I don't
27:12want to mess things up.
27:14But there is a common problem among message leadership of seared consciences.
27:21They have no conscience whatsoever when they speak.
27:25If I'm speaking in a podcast to you, Charles, and I say something that I, after I say it,
27:31you're in, you're in the heat of the moment and you make mistakes.
27:33After I say it, if I realize that I said something wrong, it bothers me.
27:38Like I will immediately, people don't know this listening to the podcast.
27:41We'll go back sometimes and correct some of the statements that we make.
27:44Like that's how it is because in the back of my head, I can't sit still.
27:48If I've done something wrong, I want people to know I've done something wrong.
27:51And so I want to correct it before it gets out.
27:54But message leadership, it's not that way.
27:57They see, there's a Gnostic view of lies for the sake of a holy end.
28:03And I think they go down that pathway a lot.
28:06But anyway, I had, um, I had this experience with a family member and it was edging.
28:14Very, very close to voodoo and witch doctors kind of thing, which sounds funny if you're
28:20thinking in the context of Christianity, picture the scene where you go into some tribe in the
28:26middle of nowhere in Africa and somebody has just become severely injured and may die.
28:32And you walk into the hut and there's all of this incense floating around in the air and
28:37they're chanting and doing all kinds of things, rituals that, you know, from our perspective in
28:43the modern world, we look at this and we think, well, that chanting is not going to heal this
28:47person who's dying or whatever it is.
28:49That's what's happening in these camps in the middle of nowhere, right?
28:53In these developing nations.
28:55Well, I walked into a hospital room and the same exact thing was happening.
29:00I have a family member who made national news when he blew up his meth lab in his house and
29:09nearly took out a fireman with him.
29:11His house exploded.
29:13He was burned.
29:14Over 50% of his body was burned.
29:17His flesh on his arms and legs had become tourniquets.
29:21And when I walked into the hospital room, they had actually filleted his arms and legs to
29:26make it where he wasn't going to lose his limbs.
29:30That's how bad it was.
29:32And I walk in and it was the most disgusting, horrific thing I've ever seen.
29:36He was, you know, he usually was tanned, but he was as black as, he looked like you pull a
29:42log out of the fireplace.
29:44That's how he looked.
29:44And my grandfather from behind the pulpit said, now I want you to pray for, and I'm not going
29:51to give the relationship, I want you to pray for brother so-and-so.
29:55He got in a motorcycle wreck.
29:57And so everybody's praying for this motorcycle wreck that didn't happen.
30:00I go to the hospital and I had, he was registered under some weird name like Tom Jones or something
30:07that wasn't his name.
30:08And I walk into the hospital room and the way that they were administering healing, because
30:14they did not trust that the hospital could heal him, was they were playing the recordings
30:19of William Branham 24-7.
30:23They were sitting watch with him.
30:24When the tape would stop, there was somebody in the room to flip the tapes because they
30:28thought that he would receive his healing by listening to those recordings.
30:33It was an enchantment of sorts.
30:35And you can picture what the nurses and doctors thought.
30:38They're walking in and here's this guy screaming like a Nazi and the speakers of this tape player
30:43that they brought in.
30:45Well, whether it worked or not, my family would say it worked because he did recover and blew
30:52up his meth lab house a second time.
30:55And in the second instance, my grandfather got behind the pulpit and he said something to
30:59the effect of, please pray for brother so-and-so.
31:02He was messing with gasoline and he had a serious accident.
31:08But his meth lab exploded because back in the hospital, they did the same exact thing.
31:15Now, my family will argue that this second attempt at voodoo worked because he did recover
31:21again later to die of something else.
31:24So that's how this works.
31:26If you think about these recordings, it is such a weird, weird mess that isn't, it doesn't
31:32even resemble Christianity whatsoever.
31:34Wow, John, that's an awful story.
31:37And it is illustrative of just how message leaders will bend the facts and the truth
31:44and really just be outright dishonest in order to kind of present a false narrative.
31:50And it's also really illustrative of how the main sect views the tapes with these magical
31:55healing powers in the words of the prophet.
31:58That's very interesting, John.
32:00Very interesting.
32:00Now, I think the next thing to point out about the main sect is the leadership of it.
32:08You know, I mentioned how already how when William Branham died, Billy Paul basically overthrew
32:14the Branham Tabernacle and put himself into power.
32:20He did that with help from Perry Green and people coming back from the Tucson message community.
32:25So they brought a bunch of people back from Tucson.
32:27They had a more or less secret election at the Tabernacle, an impromptu service where he
32:32brought a bunch of people from deity cult, especially back, and voted him in as pastor and general
32:37overseer, really, of the Branham Tabernacle.
32:40And that all preceded your grandfather coming back.
32:43He was out in Arizona still at that time as well.
32:45And the reason that he was able to get away with that, John, over the protests of the majority of the Jeffersonville message community
32:54was that the deity cult controlled all of the majority of the trustee positions on the boards of the central institutions of the message.
33:06And in our next episode, I hope we're going to start actually talking about the central institutions themselves and the board members
33:11and just the history of some of that, how that all came together and evolved.
33:15But basically, before William Branham died,
33:19he put the deity cult in control of the central institutions of the message.
33:25And now the message has four central institutions, John,
33:30and what I consider central institutions.
33:33And those central institutions, John, that's really how I define the main sect of the message.
33:36You know, other people might define it.
33:39You might even have a little different definition than me.
33:41But the way that I define the main sect of the message is,
33:44the main sect of the message is the four central institutions
33:48and all of the people who are loyal and cooperate with those institutions.
33:53And if you think of the central institutions of the message like a pyramid,
33:57the top of the pyramid is the William Branham Evangelistic Association.
34:01That's how, that's the top of the pyramid.
34:03It, back in the early days, it controlled all of the intellectual property.
34:09It owned the copyrights.
34:11It was the controlling institution.
34:14It was established in 1965.
34:17It was actually established in November or December of 1965
34:20under somewhat mysterious circumstances.
34:23We'll discuss in our next episode.
34:25But it was established.
34:27Billy Paul was on that board along with two members of the deity cult,
34:32Fred Sofman, Roy Roberson.
34:35They were the founding members of the William Branham Evangelistic Association.
34:40Later on, Fred Sofman got on the board as well.
34:43And they are basically the guys who control the top.
34:48So it's Billy Paul and two or three guys who think he is the son of God.
34:52That is who, that is who controlled the William Branham Evangelistic Association.
34:58The same down at the Branham Tabernacle.
35:00The majority of the board there was all deity cult, all put in place by William Branham.
35:04And the same thing, when Billy Paul had the corrupt election and got himself put in as general overseer there,
35:10the board was controlled by the deity cult.
35:13They did not want to dislodge him, and so he was allowed to continue in that position.
35:17And he essentially is who appointed your grandfather in as a pastor,
35:22and Vernon Mann and the others that came along through before.
35:25So Billy Paul was always kind of the secret power in all of these things.
35:30Besides that, there's two other central institutions.
35:32So I said the WBEA and the Branham Tabernacle.
35:36Well, the Branham Tabernacle controls all the assets of the local Jeffersonville message community.
35:41Or at least they did until somebody stole it all from them.
35:44Maybe we'll talk about that too later.
35:46And so you had that, and then you had the other two central institutions.
35:54One of them is, you'll hear me call it the franchise that turned into Voice of God recordings,
35:59and the franchise that turned into Spoken Word publications.
36:01I phrase it like that because they were not always called Voice of God and Spoken Word.
36:06They started out and things changed over the years.
36:09But they're most commonly and fondly remembered as Spoken Word and Voice of God.
36:13So the franchise that became Spoken Word, the franchise that became Voice of God,
36:17those were the other two central institutions.
36:20And those were kind of like mission arms of the message.
36:24Spoken Word publications was creating print literature, that franchise, which preexisted and continued on after.
36:31And then the franchise which became Voice of God recordings was the franchise creating all of the actual recordings.
36:38And in our next episode, we'll just talk through the evolution of who was involved in all that
36:43and just connect up the dots for everybody because I do think it's going to help people just to understand how all that evolved over the years.
36:50But in a nutshell, Fred Sothman, who is also on the WBA, he is the director of the franchise that becomes Voice of God recordings.
37:00And Roy Borders is the director of the franchise that becomes Spoken Word Publications.
37:06And so all of these guys, basically all of the directors and board members are shared across all these groups is what I'm getting at.
37:13It's the same leadership team more or less across all the groups with different levels of say.
37:19And so those are the central institutions.
37:21Those are the key guys.
37:22And my chief point here is, one, they're really all controlled by the same group of friends.
37:28Besides Billy Paul, they were all in the Deity cult when all of this stuff started out.
37:33They were all Deity cult members.
37:34Joseph was not involved in this when he was back then.
37:38Joseph was a child still, a minor, when his father passed away.
37:42So Joseph didn't get involved into this until years later.
37:45But it was all the Deity cult, and it was Billy Paul really in the controlling position through the years.
37:53And Billy Paul kind of managed it.
37:55I'm going to say he managed it all mostly with soft power.
37:59I think that would be a fair way to put it, wouldn't it be, John?
38:01And I think that Billy Paul, I don't know maybe that he necessarily knew this from the start.
38:10But certainly he came to realize this very quickly after the hostile takeover, the Branham Tabernacle, and all the pushback he came.
38:16His hold on power was always somewhat fragile.
38:20And holding the whole central, the main sect together, it was always a fragile thing, right?
38:27Because everybody is ready to jump on each other and call each other a heretic and schism at any second over anything, okay?
38:35And Billy Paul, in one sense, they're trying to hold it together, right?
38:38And so Billy Paul is, besides the initial hostile takeover, he kind of transitions into this gentle leadership style.
38:48I think that's a nice way to put it.
38:50And he only used the hard power when it was a matter of not, you know, if something happened and he was threatened, then the claws had to come out.
39:00But so long as, you know, the soft power worked, right, you would not have necessarily realized Billy Paul is the cult leader of the main sect of the message.
39:10He was just kind of this passive, let everybody else do everything.
39:14And so long as I am in the general overseer chair, and as long as I am in the chairman chair, and as long as I am in the treasurer chair, okay, everybody else, you do what you want.
39:23And I'm going to be gentle and kind and nice, but don't get on my bad side or threaten my position because then the claws will come out.
39:30That's how – that was Billy Paul's leadership style.
39:33I have another term for it.
39:35You know, Charles, we're going to have to come up with our own set of terms because we're edging very close to the point where some of the people are still alive
39:44and have mountains of money to issue lawsuits.
39:49So I think what I'm going to do, people who are in the message will understand this term, and people on the outside may not get it,
39:55but it sort of puts up a legal barrier between us.
40:00But I'm going to start using the term Prophet Jr. for some of the things that we're going to say in these upcoming episodes.
40:07If you're from the message, you know exactly who Prophet Jr. is.
40:11But I have a different term than you used.
40:16I consider this to be more of a Penn & Teller show.
40:19If you understand the comedian act of Penn & Teller, there's this boisterous guy.
40:26He's a very tall, big, hefty guy, very boisterous personality, and he is the face of the comedy act.
40:34He's the one doing all the speaking.
40:36His partner has a – he's almost mute.
40:40I don't know that he ever speaks, but he just sits there and he smiles and makes faces and expressions while the boisterous guy is making all the jokes.
40:48But it's the silent guy who's actually the brains behind the act.
40:52So it's a Penn & Teller show.
40:54If you look at Billy Paul, like you said, he was this friendly, timid guy that would never do many of the things that Prophet Jr. and some of the others are doing.
41:05But the Penn & Teller act is – it's all throughout the message.
41:09If you were on the inside and you understood the dynamics of how this worked, there was a brains behind the operation and there was a face behind the operation.
41:19That's very true, and they weren't the same person.
41:22And so definitely the way I characterize it is beyond a shadow of a doubt, Billy Paul was the man with his hands on all the levers of power across the main sect of the message.
41:33He was in control of all of the central institutions.
41:37No questions asked.
41:39But the people running it were the faces, okay?
41:42Fred Sothman was the face.
41:43Boy, what a silly face to choose.
41:45Fred Sothman was one face, right?
41:47Roy Borders was another face, right?
41:49Your grandfather was a face.
41:51And Roy Roberson even to some extent was a face.
41:54So Billy Paul has these other guys who are out front, right?
41:59And he's more or less in the back room making the decisions and giving instructions and stuff.
42:04And so long as the money is flowing, so long as – that's my take.
42:08So long as the money is flowing, so long as everything is moving on, Billy Paul really don't care too much, right?
42:14And for me, John, now this is another just opinion.
42:17This just goes back to me.
42:18This goes back to me.
42:19I just – I don't think Billy Paul ever believed the message, right?
42:23Because the lack of passion, the lack of getting into all of the fights and all of the schisms.
42:29John, are you aware of any single real message believer that doesn't have incredibly strong opinions that they would fight to the death over?
42:36Are you aware of such a message believer as that?
42:40None.
42:40There is no way, man.
42:42So the fact that somebody could be in the message all of those years and never have a serious conviction enough that they would get into a fight on a schism over is a pretty good sign that they don't really believe the message.
43:02Because for the average message believer, these things are life and death struggles.
43:08You know, go to the firing squad to fight over this.
43:12You know, you will do anything to be on the right side and win and make it in the rapture.
43:18You know, William Brennan would say, if there's only one person in Jeffersonville going to make it, it's going to be me.
43:23You know, and that's the – you ever heard people in the message say that, John?
43:26And that is the attitude of a lot of people.
43:28If anybody here is going to make it, you better believe it's going to be me.
43:31You know, and they will – whatever it takes to make sure they are the one person that makes it.
43:38And the fact that Billy Paul never got into any of that, to me, is very telling that he was aware of what it all was, right?
43:45And he was just happy to collect the check in the back room while everyone else was crazy.
43:51Well, and the funny part about all of that is there were people who knew Billy Paul growing up and knew the way that he acted, the things that he did while William Brennan was preaching, some of the things that he did outside the building.
44:07And they would argue that, yeah, he never believed it because he never lived it.
44:12He didn't have the lifestyle.
44:13And what's funny, many of those same people would say that even while I was in the message, and they didn't know the lifestyle of Prophet Jr.
44:21And so they thought that they were two different people with two different personalities, both of which believed the message.
44:28My family, even while – before any of this happened, before any of my research, they weren't fully sold on the idea that one or two or both of the brothers truly believed the message at all
44:42because they just didn't – they didn't act like other message believers.
44:46Rafa Jr. is an interesting case, and his rise into power, John, really comes very close to the end of my book, so we might not have to say a whole lot about that.
44:57But yes, there's just a very interesting contrast between the way Billy Paul and his successor managed things.
45:06I think Billy Paul had an understanding of the fragility of the situation, and he also had a more honest understanding of just how this whole thing works and how it's held together, right?
45:19And you lost that during the transition in leadership, and that – then you have somebody with – someone who's not up to the task in some sense.
45:31Okay, being generous here.
45:32Someone who's maybe not quite up to the task of holding such a diverse, complex thing together and ends up causing the major schisms, some of them that happened in the 90s and early 2000s.
45:45So, yeah, I mean, I think just that difference in leadership style explains a lot of what transpired as Billy Paul went into retirement.
45:55But for the main portion of my book, Billy Paul is the guy running the main sect of the message.
46:01And a lot of what we're going to talk about through the next few episodes is the period of time when Billy Paul's in charge.
46:07What happens is as you come into the early to mid-90s, Billy Paul does start grooming his successor, and in the early 2000s, Billy Paul starts to go into semi-retirement and turn things over to his successor.
46:24And we might talk about his successor some more down the road.
46:26But definitely for the point and period of the recovering, it's really important to know the churches of the main sect are gradually becoming increasingly tape churches, less and less preaching churches.
46:39The central institutions are controlled by Billy Paul and the deity cult.
46:44And if we haven't said again who the deity cult is, again, maybe this is someone's first time joining us.
46:49The deity cult is the section of the main sect which worships William Branham as God incarnate.
46:55They baptize, they pray in his name, they say he is God in the flesh, okay?
46:59The deity cult, they are the ones in charge.
47:02And John, that is so important to point out to people.
47:04It is so absolutely important for all of the people in the message and outside the message to know.
47:11The central institutions of the message are controlled and have been since their inception by the members of the Branham deity cult.
47:19They are the deity cult.
47:20And what's important is even more than knowing that they're controlled by the deity cult, it's important to know William Branham is the one who put the deity cult in power, okay?
47:32William Branham very famously, we did a full episode on the bruised serpent if you want to look it up through the past.
47:38The bruised serpent episode.
47:39William Branham preached a sermon called the bruised serpent where he, on tape, he condemned the deity cult.
47:45He condemned the people who worship and pray in his name and says, you can't do that anymore, no, that's bad.
47:52And then less than a year later, he takes those same people and he makes them trustees and directors and senior leaders over the key institutions of the message, okay?
48:01That is absolutely what happened.
48:05And the way that I interpret it, John, is that he was just doing damage control with the bruised serpent sermon.
48:13That was just a damage control sermon because the deity cult had got caught and he had to confront them in order to save himself at that point.
48:22And then after things quieted down a little bit, he took the deity cult and he moved with them to Arizona and he put them in charge of all the central institutions of the message.
48:31And they still worshipped him as God and baptized in his name and he knew it the whole time.
48:36He knew when he moved out.
48:37There's all kinds of records that he knew that they were the deity cult, that they were worshipping him.
48:42And he chose to put them in control of the central institutions.
48:46And so throughout this entire period, while the rank and file person in the main sect does not believe William Branham was God incarnate, absolutely not.
48:53The leaders of the main sect and its central institutions were absolutely members of the deity cult, absolutely.
49:02I would agree with that.
49:04And the funny part is, not many people who are even in the main sect realize this.
49:09You and I have, even before this one, we had some discussions about what was true and what was not concerning the leadership of the Branham Tabernacle and its main sect establishments.
49:21Key figures who were truly believers that William Branham was God in the flesh were appointed to very critical positions of leadership.
49:31And I had no idea that these men were on even legal documents.
49:35Some of the legal documents have them in it because we saw them as nutjobs.
49:40Fred Sothman, that guy was crazy, man.
49:42Anybody who knew him knew that he was crazy.
49:44There's this video that I think we played a few clips from where he's talking about how William Branham was greater than Jesus and Jesus could never do the same miracles that William Branham did.
49:56He was so much greater and more powerful.
49:59And the back story behind that, people would go visit Fred Sothman because he would say the craziest things.
50:06And if you could get him on recording, it made a good laugh.
50:08I don't know if that was one of them.
50:10Maybe the people believe what he was saying.
50:12I don't know.
50:13But anybody of any sound mind listening to it would realize that that guy has lost his mental faculties.
50:20And no, William Branham was not God in the flesh.
50:23But the fact that he and many, many others were put in leadership positions solely because they believed that William Branham was God is very telling.
50:32You are correct.
50:33And you can go down the list of every trustee of the central institutions, and every last one of them is on recording somewhere saying William Branham is God in the flesh.
50:45Every last one of them.
50:48And I document those in the book if people want some footnotes and stuff to chase all those down, the first and second volume of message history.
50:55But every last one of them, right?
50:57And so it's not even in dispute that that is what they believe.
51:01That is absolutely what they believe.
51:05And so this thing is always this weird abomination from day one, John.
51:12I mean, from the moment William Branham dies, I mean, it just becomes an increasingly worse abomination.
51:18You know, you've got Billy Paul, who probably doesn't believe the message, running the central institutions, which were led by people who think that William Branham was God incarnate.
51:32And they are the ones propagating all of the tapes and all of the literature and going on, you know.
51:40And it's just, you know, what do you do with that?
51:43It is so, it's so strange on one hand, but then on the other hand, it's just so ugly.
51:51You know, it's just abominable, the whole thing, John.
51:54Abominable.
51:54And lots of people did know it.
51:57There's a lot of people that did know it.
51:58Like, the people in my sect, they, a lot of them left over it, you know, back in the day when it all started.
52:04But there's been lots of people that know those things.
52:07But where can you go, John?
52:08You think me and you are doing this here in the year 2025, right?
52:12And we record these a few weeks in advance.
52:14So, you know, this will come out later this year.
52:17But where, where can we go?
52:21Just think the whole world of all the mess, where can we go and find anyone in the message saying, hey, guys, Fred Sothman and these guys are all in the DD cult.
52:30Where, where is anybody warning people?
52:33Where is the, where is anybody out there for all the message history putting this out there for people to hear?
52:40It's not really there, is it?
52:41It's not really there.
52:43You know, if you're in the circles of leadership here in Jeffersonville, you probably know about it.
52:49If, if you came to my church and were there when Raymond Jackson preached about it a few times and gave out everybody's names and played some record, like, you would know about it.
52:58But otherwise, there's very little, very little awareness outside of the core leaders of the message that this is even a reality.
53:07Well, there's so much to talk about.
53:09We're, I think if we start another subject, some of the subjects that we have are so big, it would probably require an entire podcast.
53:16So, maybe we'll cut off here.
53:18But getting into some of the other things that we have spoken about, Gene and Leo and their torture compound in Prescott, Arizona, many of the things like this are a direct result of the main sect of the message.
53:32So, you can't have an extremist who is preying upon others.
53:39I'll say it lightly so that YouTube doesn't block us.
53:42You can't have that without a main sect.
53:44From the tree produces the fruit.
53:47That's how this works.
53:48If you know the Bible, you know that what I'm saying is biblically accurate.
53:53You examine the tree by its fruit.
53:56So, the further we go in this tree, you'll understand that even while the main sect would say that the tree trunk, the main sect is holy, and that all of these extremists that blossomed from that tree, they're just rogue agents for Satan.
54:11They're working their way into heresy.
54:15And William Branham never condoned that.
54:17You're going to find that William Branham actually established his main sect from that structure.
54:22He wanted the extremists.
54:23He wanted the people that believed that he was God.
54:27And then, after he died, and the leadership that already was somewhat this weird massive deity cult, they wanted more people of extreme nature.
54:38So, they're bringing in more messed up people to help lead this thing.
54:42And that is what grew the tree that blossomed into all of this fruit that we see.
54:47So, so much more I can say, but maybe next time we'll get into some of the deeper, darker secrets of the main sect.
54:53I'm looking forward to it, John.
54:55We have got to walk through the history of the central institutions.
55:00And there are some things in there that I just don't think people have connected the dots.
55:04And I'm going to connect the dots for you, ladies and gentlemen.
55:06You come back next time, and we'll show you some interesting stuff.
55:10Well, if you've enjoyed our show, and you want more information, you can check us out on the web.
55:14You can find us at william-branham.org and christiangospelchurch.org.
55:19For more about William Branham and the Healing Revivals, you can read Come Out of Her My People.
55:24For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.
55:31Both available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
55:40For more about the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.
56:10Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.
56:40For more about them, I've owned a couple of different videos.
56:42I live in a couple of different videos.
56:43For more about the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian absolutist
56:51you can read and would