Levi Larsen - The Missionary Who Brought Branham's Message to Norway - With Sissel Hoff - video Dailymotion

William Branham Historical Research

John and Sissell discuss the intergenerational toll of fringe religious movements, centering on her family’s immersion into William Branham’s teachings and the Norwegian splinter group that followed Raymond Jackson. Sissell recounts her upbringing in a missionary household, her father’s pursuit of supernatural signs, and their journey from Pentecostal roots into an increasingly authoritarian and prophetic movement. She describes formative moments—living in Jeffersonville during the release of the “Seven Seals,” attending Branham’s meetings, and witnessing both staged and misunderstood miracles that deeply shaped her father’s faith. Her mother remained skeptical, and a tragic car accident later marked a turning point, curbing her father’s ministry.  As the story unfolds, Sissell reflects on the damage caused by these movements—relational fractures, theological confusion, and personal trauma. She shares her own path to healing through simple faith, rejecting the hyper-spirituality that marked her earlier years. They examine how cult-like belief systems create cycles of “revictimization,” drawing people into new controlling systems after they escape the old ones. Their conversation closes with Sissell’s desire to warn others in Norway through a YouTube initiative, urging those who’ve left high-control groups to anchor themselves in Scripture, reject performance-based religion, and seek authentic relationships grounded in love.  00:00 Introduction 02:30 A missionary journey derailed by legalism and control 07:00 Moving to Jeffersonville and firsthand exposure to Branham’s ministry 12:00 Escape from the Arizona trailer commune and inner-circle elitism 16:00 Raymond Jackson’s prophecy and the family’s return to Norway 20:00 Launching the message in Scandinavia and Sisil’s inner conflict 24:00 A vision of God’s love and rediscovering the heart of the gospel 30:00 Disillusionment, trauma, and the toll of cult instability 38:00 Gene Edwards, the Jesus Movement, and the craving for something deeper 44:00 Healing, discernment, and advice for those escaping spiritual abuse  Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts: https://william-branham.org/podcast   Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR: Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962 Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K ______________________ – Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: https://william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg  – Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

Transcript

00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.

00:37I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research

00:41at william-branham.org, and with me I have my very special guest, Cicel Hoff, former member

00:47of The Message from Norway. Cicel, it's good to have you on and to talk about your journey

00:53throughout The Message and after The Message. We briefly talked before I started recording,

01:00and we have a few things in common, and I think our listeners will be very excited to hear

01:05your story, so maybe if you could just take a moment and tell everybody a little bit about

01:09yourself.

01:10Cicel Hoff, I was, before I was Cicel Larsen Hoff, and right now I'm living in Norway, a place

01:19called Sunnis. It's the southern part of Norway. I work with a drug rehabilitation program that

01:29I'm leading, and my family lives here, and I have a burden. I feel it's from the Lord to help

01:41warn people who are in The Message, but also I see so many of my Norwegian friends, and also my

01:50American friends, because I lived there over 30 years, that are just running after what they think

01:56is signs and miracles and prophetic words. And I feel like when I tell my story, they listen a little

02:04more than just if it's theoretical.

02:06Yeah, it seems to me that the adults chasing miracles is like the children chasing rainbows.

02:13You can keep chasing as many times as you want, but some people get caught up in it, and they think

02:18that they have experienced something, and maybe they did, but in the end, are they chasing after

02:24the correct thing? That's the question that I always go back to, because once I left The Message

02:29and I started experiencing what other churches were teaching and where they were grounded,

02:34they were more grounded in the gospel than in the miracles. And while they really didn't discredit

02:40the miracles, they said, is your focus and is your attention on the right thing? And that question was,

02:46it kind of drove me to digging in a little bit deeper.

02:49Yeah. Like you know, I've told you before that my parents were saved in a tent revival in Norway

02:56through the Assembly of God, and it was a real conversion. And my dad felt like he wanted to be

03:03full-time minister for the Lord, and he traveled around Norway as an evangelist. And then he felt

03:10called to be a missionary in Brazil. And during that time, Norway wasn't rich. Now it's a really rich

03:18country, but then there wasn't enough. They had two churches, their home churches, supporting them.

03:24And like a lot of people felt in those days, they felt, oh, we'll just go to America and it's easy

03:30to save money in America. So that's actually why we immigrated to America on the way to Brazil.

03:38During this time, we had a lot of experiences, one which doesn't have to do with this, but we met a

03:47group of Church of Christ in God, Mennonite. They had recently come out of the Amish,

03:52but they were so excited to meet us. We became like the movie stars of their movement,

03:58because nobody joins that church. But the reason my parents joined it, because they said they were

04:05going to pay for everything and send us out to the mission field. But then when my dad found out

04:11they had to follow, they had a thick book like this of rules, and he found out that he thought,

04:17okay, that's okay, we can follow it in America. But once we get to Brazil, we'll be on our own.

04:23But then they made it very clear, they're going to come and inspection tours. And even the Indians

04:29in that hot region, they had to grow beards, and they had to sew exactly the same clothes.

04:36So then my dad thought, no, he can't handle this. So on the way, in his journey, in his searching,

04:44we moved a lot of times. He met, I think it was Bob Lambert in Florida, whom introduced him to the

04:55message.

04:56So as I mentioned before, we started recording. That's one of the things that we ironically have

05:02just a little bit in common. Not personally for myself, but my wife lived in an Amish community.

05:09She wasn't Amish, but she lived in the community. And her family is the one who drove around to,

05:14you know, taking people into town and giving them rides in their vehicles. But she became so

05:20acquainted with the Amish, her family did, that they asked her mother to start teaching in the school.

05:26So my mother-in-law was an Amish school teacher. And once the building grew filled with so many

05:34children, it was more than she could handle. So my wife at age, I can't remember what, it was an

05:39early age, maybe 14 years old, she started teaching and helping, which violates a few laws outside of

05:46the Amish community. So this turned into kind of a big deal for them. The end result is the United States

05:54government can't apply those laws for education inside the Amish community. So it turned interesting.

06:01But she became somewhat famous in the region, in the Amish communities. So when we got married,

06:09there was a whole busload of Amish people who came to our wedding at the Branham Tabernacle.

06:15Wow.

06:16They, like you said, they have a way that's different about them. I've got to meet many of

06:21them now after we're married. And I can't imagine submitting to that lifestyle because their rules

06:26are much more rigid than it was in the message.

06:29But for us kids, it was just amazing. It was like way better than Disneyland because we'd go to their,

06:37we'd always, we were so famous, you know, because we were Norwegians. And from the outside,

06:43then every Sunday we would be invited to someone's house. And they lived, of course,

06:48lived on the farm and had 13, 14, 15 kids and all that food. It was the best time in my life during

06:54those years. But because of all those rules, my dad decided he was going to continue traveling.

07:02And he met, I think it was Bob Lambert there, which introduced him to the message. And my dad got so

07:10fascinated. I don't think his foundation could not have been solid enough. I don't know. Or

07:16he had such longing for the supernatural. I'm not sure what it was. But he got totally

07:23connected with that. We moved to Jeffersonville. We lived there for about two and a half years

07:28in the Branham Tabernacle, 1962, 63, and part of 64.

07:36So 62, 63, 64, that was right in the heart of whenever the seven seals were coming out.

07:44Yes. I was there at all those meetings. Yeah.

07:46Oh, wow. Yes. This was a big time. In fact, I don't know how it is in Norway, but there are many

07:53splinter groups of the message that they will say that the only real message of William Branham is

07:58from 63 to 65. And they totally ignore the years before. So everything that he said before in

08:05conflict, they, they, you know, they totally discount it because that was before the message

08:11came out, John. But some of the, you know, I was, I was probably in awe too. I remember when I shook

08:17hands with Branham, I was like, I was so scared to shake his hand, you know, because what if he tells

08:24me what I'm thinking? You know, it's like, it's kind of scary when they have such a, like you say,

08:30a stage persona, persona, but a couple of the things, my dad got even more convinced being there

08:37because he had a friend and I quite, I mean, you probably can have some input in this, but he had a

08:43young friend who came from Norway and he came there and he stayed with us. We lived in Louisville

08:48and we went to church in Jeffersonville and he, um, we were sitting on the balcony one night and he was

08:56there to pray for his uncle. And to my, the best of my knowledge, Branham did not personally know my

09:04dad. Maybe he had heard of him. Maybe he knew who he was, you know, but, um, so he was, he, the place

09:12was packed. It was so packed. And then he pointed him out on the balcony and he said, you young man

09:20up there, I know he had never met him from Norway and you came here. I see you sitting with your hands

09:26in your head in your hands or somebody sitting. He says, you're here to pray for your uncle who has a

09:31terrible headache. And he said details. And so my, and it was true. And, and, um, I'm not sure if his

09:41uncle ever got healed, but he said he was going to get healed. But, uh, so my dad was so impressed

09:47with that. That was just amazing to him. So that kind of cemented it even more. And then another

09:54thing I remember, there was this old missionary couple from Africa. Their name was brother and

09:59sister way. Do you remember them at all? Nobody knows anybody knows them, but anyways, they were

10:05sitting, I was there at the meeting. They were sitting in the front row and he fell over

10:10as dead and somebody took his pulse. They didn't find his pulse right away. So Branham immediately

10:17declared him as dead and then without doctors or anything. And then he prayed for him and

10:24then he was declared risen from the dead. So this was a big deal. And I thought that is

10:30weird. I've thought afterwards, right then I thought, wow, you know, uh, so those were just

10:37a couple of impressions I, I had when I was there. Yeah. I've actually, I haven't been in

10:44the service, but in this area, they have had similar things happen where somebody will fall

10:50over and, you know, people fall from exhaustion too. There's many reasons why people will fall

10:55and it doesn't necessarily mean they're dead. And, um, what happens is it's kind of odd because

11:02rather than calling 911 or making sure that there's any kind of medical presence, they'll

11:07come and pronounce them dead right there and then also pronounce them risen and to the audience

11:13it's, oh, wow, that's cool. But if you really stop and think about, was he really dead? And

11:18the way that they check the pulse often is the same way that they do in the movies, which

11:22isn't really the correct way to check a pulse, maybe the wrist, but you've got to, you know,

11:27there's, there's different ways you're supposed to do it. But I was, I, there, there's an experience

11:32like that here where somebody allegedly was raised from the dead. And I had a person who was, I was

11:39working with at the time who had left the message who actually is in the medical profession. And he

11:44said, John, every single step of this is incorrect. There's no way to know, was he even dead by the way

11:49that they, they tested him? Yeah. But of course, people believed it all. And probably my parents

11:57did too. And then during that time there, um, if my dad was like, really, I think really determined

12:06to get close to Branham. And so when everybody was moving to Tucson, he decided we were going to move

12:13to Tucson. And that was the craziest thing. We got there and we got enrolled in school. This was the

12:20autumn of 64. And we lived there two weeks. And then my dad decided, nope. And I don't know, I never

12:27know, knew what happened. If he, he was, he tried to get close to Branham, but Branham had kind of such

12:33an inner circle. You couldn't get close to him from an outsider, unless you were very unique, you know?

12:39Uh, and so I don't know what happened, but we ended up leaving. And you know, how thankful I am

12:46many times when I heard that about that trailer park there in Tucson, I thought, wow, that could

12:52have been me. That could have been us that would have gotten totally stuck because it seemed on the

12:58outside. It seems so great. Right. And I thought, thank you, Lord. I'm spared from all of that.

13:04And to the listeners who are unfamiliar with the trailer park experience, there was a

13:09miniature commune that was set up out and it was Prescott, Arizona. I think it was

13:14after William Branham moved to Tucson, his, um, I guess you could call it in biblical terms,

13:19you'd call him his scribes, his two men that followed him around, taking all of his recordings.

13:24They set up a compound and horrific things were taking place in there. And to some extent,

13:32based off of the timeline that we piece piece together, William Branham had to have known some of

13:37it, but you can go on my website and you can search for, um, Leo Mercer is a name that you can

13:44search for and you can find out what was happening. But anyway, this was a horrific thing. It is good

13:48that your family escaped. And interestingly, I'm, I'm piecing together the timeline in my head and I'm

13:54fairly certain that your family would have moved into the tabernacle, uh, group at the same time that

14:01my family was in William Branham's inner circle there. Then after Branham moved to Tucson, not long

14:08after, I know that my family also moved to Tucson. So they were in the inner circle there. So they

14:13would have been in the circle that you couldn't get through to get to him. And things were happening

14:17that nobody is aware of. I've got also photographs on my, um, website for people who don't know this,

14:24but one of the things Branham had in his big stack of rules, just like the Amish had was you could not

14:31swim with, um, the opposite sex. And largely most people in the message, I've been in message

14:40communities where they couldn't swim at all in a swimming pool. They just couldn't because of all

14:45of the ranting and railing against swimming pools. Well, my family was there at William Branham's own

14:51swimming pool and we have photographs of his swimming pool and they had pool parties. And, you know,

14:56while he's got this stage persona, which is somewhat like the Amish with all of the rules,

15:02he himself and his inner circle weren't abiding by the same rules. Yeah. But anyways, we ended up moving

15:09back again to Pennsylvania to be with some other message people there. And during that time, my

15:17grandmother in Norway got really sick and she had one desire that was to see my mother and us again.

15:23So it ended up my mother and my brother and I, which is 15 months older than me, we moved back to

15:30Norway and my dad remained there. And during that time, I know it was in 1964, I found in his, he's dead

15:38now, but I found in his thing. And I think he, this was became his, uh, what he lived by a prophecy of

15:46Raymond Jackson. And it ended with, uh, you know, my son, you are in a waiting season now. Uh, and again,

15:55my son, and you will set sail again. And it was very specific. So he felt it was to him and he got it

16:04printed up for him. Uh, you shall hear again, the voice of the Lord and thou shall set set thy sail

16:11and go the way I have called thee, said the Lord. And that became very, I think, uh, guiding for him.

16:20So when he, when we had lived in Norway year, my mother, she had actually never, she was a real

16:26evangelist. She has won many to the Lord during her life. And she never liked the message. She

16:33always felt there was something very odd with it, but, uh, this was the first time, but she really

16:40believed she was to follow my dad, even though she felt she had a lot of, uh, turmoil about it.

16:48And then, um, but this was the first time she said, I'm not moving back to America. She put her foot

16:55down finally. So my dad, he always loved my mom very much. So it wasn't talk about divorce or anything.

17:03So he had to come to Norway and he built a house. And after a few years, I think a lot because of

17:12Raymond Jackson's prophecy that he thought my job is to spread the message in Norway.

17:18Wow. That's, that's incredible. I know that Raymond Jackson did this type of prophesying. I've been

17:25working with Charles and learning bits and pieces of it. Um, I'm also working with channel Ross,

17:30who was studying the Hobart Freeman cult. And if you're unfamiliar with Hobart Freeman, he led his,

17:37his sect into this destructive world where they could not even go to a doctor to have medicine.

17:43Many, many people died. We just recently found and have not yet published, but he was, he had been

17:50receiving Raymond Jackson's newsletters, which meant that he had to have also been at one of the, uh,

17:57conventions, I guess, where he met and got onto the newsletter subscriptions. So there's a lot of

18:03connections there, but the, the fact that your family was a splinter group of a splinter group of

18:09the message interests me all the more. So I want to know more about what happened to your sect in

18:15Norway. Did you carry forward what you heard from William Branham or from Raymond Jackson?

18:19When we left Norway, uh, a lot of people knew us in the assembly of God, because Norway is a small

18:26country. Everybody knows everybody, especially within, we have the Lutheran church, which is the

18:32state church, but then the assembly of God is the biggest, uh, one after that. And so, uh, we were kind

18:39of like, I think people admired my parents and everything. And then we came back. Then my dad was

18:45very vocal about it, that he had, uh, gotten into this message. And the worst thing was that

18:52the re-baptizing in Jesus name and that not the Trinity that was like so bad. And I was 16 years

19:00old then. And I didn't really know it was the first time I had felt really rejection like that

19:07because you could sense it. They were nice to us, but they weren't warm. They didn't include us

19:13anymore. All our old friends didn't know what to do with us. And I can understand it because my

19:18dad was so adamant about this. So during that time, I started feeling real insecure and, and actually

19:26this whole thing with the message, I feel like it's wrecked my life. It's the, and I know many people

19:33say the same thing because it caused such insecurity and anxiety. And I didn't really know what it was,

19:40but, um, uh, anyway, so my dad, after a few years, he started traveling. I'll get over to this to many

19:50countries here. Uh, uh, just a few, all of, if you know, the countries in Scandinavia, both

19:58Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Faroe Islands. And he also connected with people in Germany,

20:05Ewald Frank, but he wasn't really close to him, but I know he had the biggest church.

20:10And then a brother long in England. So he had connections everywhere. And, um, and then he

20:18started these conferences in Norway. And I think it was that, was it 1973 or 74, Raymond Jackson came.

20:27And, um, I know Charles knows more about this and Rolf Strumman became a part of it. And I was the

20:35interpreter at these, uh, conferences. So I was like my dad's right hand. He was so proud of me.

20:41And I really didn't know. I thought I was a little confused. What is this message? Because

20:48during that time from 15 years old, I had gone to the assembly of God and gotten, uh, really experienced

20:57God in a more, um, you can say a normal way. So I didn't quite understand this. And I remember after

21:05one of these conferences, which Raymond Jackson, I had interpreted him. I just, I just, I mean,

21:12I just thank the Lord. He's been so faithful to me because I knew there was something wrong

21:17and I couldn't put my finger on it. And the thing that I noticed that was like, there wasn't any,

21:23there wasn't much about, like you say, the foundational, the Jesus and the salvation and

21:30the cross and Christ in you and the fruits of the spirit was most about these message things.

21:36And then they, after the meetings, all I heard them was criticize all the other Christians.

21:42You know, that's the big thing. Whenever somebody leaves and they, there's a period of time in which

21:48you have to deprogram and deconstruct what has happened to your head. But once you do,

21:53you start to realize that this wasn't a message of bringing the body of Christ closer together.

22:00William Branham proclaimed that he was the Malachi four, and he would bring the hearts of the children

22:04to the fathers and fathers to the children. But what he did in effect was split them further apart

22:09because one of the, one of the key fundamental elements of the message, which spread all throughout

22:15latter rain, which I think many historians have missed over time for some reason, is that William

22:22Branham taught that the basics, the basic fundamentals of Christianity were not enough. And if a church

22:30focused on the base core fundamentals of Christianity, they had become cold and formal. And a lot of

22:39historians will write that, that, that he focused on what he considered to be cold and formal, but they

22:44never really go deep with describing what that is. If you teach the gospel and you focus your sermons on the

22:49gospel, you've become cold and formal. If you teach on Christian love and Christian unity, you become

22:55cold and formal. Everything that every Christian takes for granted, it's what William Branham taught

23:01was cold and formal and not enough. He said that he, what he likened it to is those were the ABCs. Now

23:09he's bringing the algebra and he would say things like, how can I teach them algebra before they learn

23:13their ABCs? What he's saying in effect is you need to move beyond the gospel. And here's this new thing

23:20that we're calling the gospel. And so in essence, he is bringing a new and different gospel.

23:26Exactly. And that's what I just am so thankful to the Lord that without me knowing what it was,

23:34I knew in my spirit, it wasn't right. Um, and then I came into really crisis of faith. And I thought,

23:42I don't want to be a Christian. If this is what's being a real Christian is. And so I took some time

23:49and I was seeking the Lord. And I remember, I think I was fasting and praying. I, and right here where I

23:55live, it's right by the ocean. So I went out one day, I was sitting by the ocean. I was crying out to

24:01the Lord. And I said, I can't, I don't want to waste my life. If this is what being a Christian is,

24:09I have one life to live. And then what God did was so amazing. He, he should, and I haven't had

24:15many of these experiences, but he gave me an open vision. I was probably about 20 or 21 years old then.

24:21Um, and I saw the whole, I saw the map of the, the world and this part of the, the Western world in

24:29Europe. And the Lord spoke so clearly to me in my mind. And he says, uh, well, which countries is it

24:37that people want to come to? And this was before there wasn't many foreigners in Norway. And I, but I

24:44could see totally, they wanted to get out of Africa, come to Europe. And yes, the countries that are built

24:50on the judo Christian values. And then he said, and then he said, uh, there's a reason for that.

24:57You know, that's, that's, it's built on the Bible. And then he said, if you follow me, if you love me,

25:04like Jesus said, you love me with all your heart, mind, and soul, I think is that heart, mind,

25:11you can never go wrong. It was just so I can almost hear it today, all these 50 plus years later.

25:17And, um, you will never go wrong. You will never waste your life because I'm going to give you the

25:24power and ability to love other people. So then how can you go wrong in life? If you love me,

25:30and then I'll help you to love other people. There's no higher way of living. And I was totally

25:36released. And the Lord led me to a little group that was just very simple. They just wanted to

25:43love the Lord and love each other. I was a part of that house church for quite a few years.

25:51But I just think of the faithfulness of the Lord. But then back to, I think that when you've gone

26:01through, you can correct me when you've gone through, you've been in this kind of cult environment,

26:06first with the, with the Church of God in Christ, and then Branham's, you have something,

26:13it's almost like you're longing for something special. It's hard to, to, to just be satisfied

26:19with something. You've heard it so much, right? Something unique, you're looking for something

26:26unique. And I don't know if that's the reason why. But, but during these years, too, from my 20s to 30s,

26:33I got a lot of anxiety. And I think it just came up when I was doing my college, it just started

26:41coming up. And I think it was, I've been too turbulent. I've lived too many places, been influenced

26:47by too many weird things, and there was no stability. So that's why just all that, all the moving about

26:56and see, abnormal life, caused a lot of anxiety in my life.

27:02Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started, or how the progression of

27:07modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic, and other fringe

27:12movements into the New Apostolic Reformation? You can learn this and more on William Branham

27:18Historical Research's website, william-branham.org. On the books page of the website, you can find the

27:25compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others,

27:32with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book. You can also find resources and

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28:01I don't talk about it much, but I have had experiences, and that's why when people ask me why I don't

28:08condemn the supernatural things, it's because I understand people who have them. And for me,

28:15as I was getting to the point where I was being prepared to leave the message, I think that's

28:22probably the best way that I would say it. I had not made any decision to leave, but things were

28:26happening that were progressing to a point where I would finally wake up and leave. I'm a songwriter

28:33and a musician, and many things were coming to me in song. There was a period of time when I was

28:40having so many songs come to me that I didn't write them down, and I forgot most of them.

28:45But the themes, I look back at some of the themes, and they're exactly what you're talking about.

28:50Where is the love? Because I would look around the message, and I would see

28:53it just, even within the message, you know, they're condemning all other Christians,

28:59but then within the message itself, they're condemning the other message groups within the same

29:04umbrella, same denomination of faith, Branhamism. They're condemning other Branhamites. And

29:10it became to me, there were songs that I was writing about, you know, inner condemnation and

29:16for no reason, that kind of thing. One of the themes was, why are we preaching to save the saved?

29:23Shouldn't we preach to save the lost? Because you'd hear sermon after sermon after sermon about

29:28trying to constrain the people and keep them, keep the ones who are already saved, keep them saved. And

29:34none of that made any sense, man. If you read the Bible, it's counterproductive to Christianity.

29:40So I had all of these things that were coming to me. And in hindsight, now that I've left the message,

29:45and I'm looking back, and I ponder the same things that you're describing, what caused this? Why were

29:51they doing this? And what I've, my opinion, which I seldom give, but I will hear, my opinion is that

29:59the message, its entire structure was designed to suck people out of mainstream churches. From its

30:08very inception, that's what it was. We need, we have something new, we have something exciting,

30:13it's showmanship, it's stage persona, it's all of these tent revivals. And we're bringing people

30:20out of whatever it is that they're in. But then at the same time, you're introducing a new gospel.

30:28And over time, that the excitement can't sustain itself. So over time, what happens is people kind

30:36of lose focus on this new gospel, and they start to, their mind starts to wander because it's

30:41unfulfilling. So what has happened essentially is a new gospel was brought, it was unfulfilling,

30:47and people want more. So they have to have bigger miracles, bigger tent revivals, bigger meetings.

30:53And in the end, you're left with something that's so unfulfilling that they cannot,

30:58it cannot sustain itself.

31:00When my dad was traveling around, what he did, he showed that movie everywhere.

31:08A man, was it a man called from God about the, basically, on healings.

31:14Do you know what that's called? Deep calls to deep or a man sent from God, the movie, and he gave out

31:22the books, I think, a man sent from God, but it was the movie, he would go from place to place and play

31:29the film. And then he would give out the books. And a lot of people got excited about that.

31:35And then, and my man, my mom was obediently follow him, even though she didn't quite understand all

31:45this. And then what happened, he was going to one of his conferences, because they, there was some kind

31:52of a misunderstanding. I don't know what happened that I heard later that Raymond Jackson quit coming

32:00to my dad's group in the south, but then the only one that, Rolf Strumman, he continued having him, but that

32:09was a smaller setting up in the north part of Norway. But so all that became very strange. But so one day, my dad

32:19was going to a conference, my mom did not want to go. And my dad was like, please go with me, he wanted her to go.

32:26So she gave in. And then they had this terrible accident. And this she was just in the beginning of

32:33her 40s. And she was forever damaged forever, her back and her neck and her she had so her face,

32:44she had like over 20 pieces of glass. I mean, it was so bad. And so that, in a way that put an end to

32:51all my dad's big traveling, because he had to take care of my mom, and she didn't want to go, she was

32:58too weak and sick to go. But you know, it was amazing. In a way, in a way, it was terrible that

33:07she had to suffer. But I don't know, he probably would have gotten a lot more followers if he would

33:14have continued to travel. And then during those times, I can just imagine with her being in so much

33:22pain. And I was just amazed. Because when I had told my dad, I didn't want to be a part of this.

33:29He didn't know how to connect with me. It was like I felt I lost my dad. He didn't. Because that was our

33:35connection in his mind. I was his right hand person. And then he couldn't talk about it or anything.

33:41I think his disappointment was so deep. And then when my mom got sick, so I lost both parents around

33:47the same time, I felt right after that. And then, but you know what that did to him? Because I think

33:54he watched my mom with all her pain, she couldn't walk much or anything. And he thought, it's because of

34:01me, I'm sure he felt that way. Because he kind of convinced her to go in the car. And then, but he during

34:10those years, he became so patient and so kind. And I just had to admire him the patience because in

34:20that, in that car accident, she also received some brain damage. So it was just like, even though he,

34:29he was deceived himself. You know, before that, he was a born again man, but he was deceived.

34:37And throughout the years, and throughout the years, with all this, having to take care of my mom and help

34:44her, I remember towards the end of his life, he started saying, now he prays my our father, which

34:53art in heaven every night. So it's like almost like he returned to the simplicity of the gospel. That's

34:59what I felt. But I know many times I was visiting. And he had a neighbor that traveled a lot to Raymond

35:07Jackson church, a headline, and they would always discuss things. And so I knew there was a lot of

35:14turmoil, but I didn't know. But I knew that group in Norway splits because of Raymond Jackson, I think,

35:22but I didn't want to be involved in a lot of why and what are they believing now.

35:27You know, that's terrible to have to go through all of that with your parents. But like you said,

35:32I'm certain in many ways, it made things much easier for you. What's interesting is whenever

35:38you're in one of these divine healing movements, whenever something happens that is out of your

35:44control with regards to health or physical pain, etc., which happens to everybody, it really puts

35:54you into the place where you have to question the entire thing. I have family members who developed

35:59chronic pain, chronic illnesses, and some of them had them until they died. And you choose one of two

36:07paths. The path that they chose was obviously much worse than what your father did, but they chose the

36:13path. What have I done? What sin is in my life that's causing this? And it's a natural ailment.

36:19There's no way possible that sin caused this thing. But that's how you're indoctrinated to believe.

36:24And they took that pathway, and it further worsened their condition, because now on top of the condition,

36:31they also have the mental anguish that came with that. And on the other side, there are people who

36:36something happens. It makes them snap and realize that God is much bigger than this,

36:42the thing that is happening to me is happening to everyone, and it has nothing to do with religion.

36:48And they just kind of snap out of it. They wake up, and they go back into finding their inner peace,

36:54which sounds like what happened to your father.

36:56It seems like it. But I was so shocked when I went through his stuff. Like I said,

37:01I know they split these groups in Norway, because I think something with Raymond Jackson.

37:07And then, but when I went through his stuff, he had all these old tapes, I threw everything away,

37:14I couldn't stand it. And then he had this booklet. And I was so shocked, because I didn't know that he

37:23knew about it, because I had heard about it. About that, you know, when Branham came to India,

37:29son of man, what was his son of? What was it? Elijah meets son of man or something. And I thought,

37:36what? He has that booklet. So, but we never talked about that. And I don't know if,

37:44how could he believe that? I mean, that was so far out that how could anybody believe that?

37:51It is odd. And going with that is like, what is the moon landing prophecy? They believe that he

37:58believed that the world was ending tied to the moon landing and NASA and all of that's published in the

38:04same book. I think it's, what's his name? Paul Azir Lowry is the name of the so-called prophet.

38:10I don't know. I would, I would like to get some help to know how to make a, I'd like to make a YouTube

38:16in Norwegian to try to reach these people, because I know how it's damaged my whole life. And like later,

38:24I could see, I had a tendency, I ended up going to California. I don't know if you've heard of Gene

38:33Edwards. He had this book that was spread throughout Norway about the first Christians. And it's like,

38:39like I said, you're longing for something special. I think when you've been in cults like that,

38:45you're, I don't know what it is. But so I ended up moving there. That was a tail end of the Jesus

38:52revolution. And it was like, all a young person can dream about. I mean, we were marching in the

38:58streets. We were singing. We were, it was, there was meetings morning, midday and evening. I mean,

39:05it wasn't like a week's conference. It was three months of conferences in the summer. But anyways,

39:11there was a lot of things there that was not, that was very, I wouldn't say impure, but very

39:21it wasn't foundational, right? You know, like his whole message was to create, create an organic

39:32church. And all he did was preach Christ. It was just Christ, Christ, Christ, nothing else.

39:37Well, pretty soon all these married people started having problems. There was no admonition,

39:43there was no thought of, of helping them with personal things. And then it collapsed. And,

39:49but I, I was sucked into that a few years. And I met my husband there and, and it was the weirdest

39:57things. All of a sudden we would have these wonderful meetings and somebody would get up and

40:01they said, I'm getting married on Saturday. And everybody would, yay. It was like a farce of, of

40:09marriages, for example, it was so weird. And so I was caught up in that a few years. So it's like,

40:17now, I guess I feel now it's, I have so many experiences that I want to warn people

40:24not to get trapped into all these sensational things. It looks so good, but it's, uh, you know,

40:34typical youth or, you know, like my dad, it wasn't a young person, but when you're running after

40:39signs and wonders, and especially all this emphasis on the prophetic. And it was that prophecy that led my

40:47dad to set sail again and start this whole thing in Europe of Raymond Jackson, you know? So, um,

40:55anyways, I'd like to warn people.

40:58I think that's a good idea because one of the problems that we face when people escape the

41:03message is re-victimization. They either go into something that resembles the message without the

41:09prophet, the false prophet, and they'll join it, or they find something that is the polar opposite.

41:14But in many cases, it's a cult that is the polar opposite. So William Branham did not teach the

41:21basics and fundamentals of Christianity. He wanted you to know the mysteries and beyond the basics.

41:27Well, then there's the other, the other side of the equation. There are people that don't really

41:31expand from just the simple basics such that it's not a healthy church. So when people are trying to

41:39ask me, where do I go from here? One of the things that I'll point to them depending on their

41:43questions is you can good, you can do Google searches and find this, but there are these

41:47articles of what makes a healthy church. And it's not just teaching the gospel, but there has to be

41:53a healthy growth. There has to be mentoring. And there's a whole, there's a series of probably 10

41:58strong bullet points that, that meet the criteria for making a healthy church and re-victimization

42:05is a problem. So I think if you were to do something, it would be very helpful.

42:08Uh, I think because of what I've experienced and the trauma it caused in my lot of anxiety,

42:16many years wasted. And then, and then I thought I was totally free, you know, that I was following

42:23the Lord. And then I got re-victimized probably a couple of times. Uh, but then I met this group

42:31also in America and, and I knew there was something wrong with that right away. Praise God.

42:36And that group turned out to be the way I met them right in the beginning. And, and I thought,

42:43no, no, here's something really wrong. So because of what I experienced with the message,

42:49I knew this was really wrong. So that saved me from the way, which turned, became really bad.

42:55But then later I got in that group in California, uh, which I felt, but I felt right away,

43:01there was something off. So I never got totally involved in it, but, but, but it's like, you have

43:07that longing for something to be special. And I think when you've had, when your childhood has

43:14been unsettled, even though my parents, there was no alcohol, no infidelity, nothing, but it was all

43:21this moving around and never settled, never knowing having friends more than maybe two years was the

43:28longest. I had my best friend all childhood. And I know you've had the same thing. We moved 15 times

43:35before I was 15 years old. And it's like, it's crazy. So, uh, and it was because my dad was searching

43:42for something. It's seemingly good, something good, but also I think his childhood had been, his father

43:50abandoned him. So he was looking for something too. So yeah, that re-victimization, but also

43:56finally you learn finally, when I get now meet people and I think, Oh no, no, no, no. Now I finally

44:04know, I feel, so I really want to help warn people so they don't have to waste so many years.

44:13So I'm curious after everything that you've gone through and the experiences that you've had,

44:19some people are totally against the spiritual, against the healings. It sounds like you aren't

44:24because of your vision and some of the other things you've mentioned, but where did you land

44:28on healings and spiritual, uh, experiences, et cetera? Yeah. I'm glad you asked that because,

44:35um, I just am wary of the hyper, the hyper worship, the hyper, uh, charismatic movement because it's so

44:46based on the soul and feelings and stuff, but I'm really for the authentic. And actually recently,

44:54we just had a big, uh, conference here and I was able to, to, uh, rejoice and be, I was one of the

45:02translators too, but there were several that actually were delivered and they had a demonic

45:08oppression, but it was real. It was authentic and it shows fruits in their lives. So I'm for what's

45:15real when the Holy spirit is moving both in healings and in deliverances and whatever, but not this hyper

45:23stuff. I just want to make sure people would understand that, that we were seeking the

45:29authentic Jesus. Well, if you could go back in time and talk to yourself as you were a little girl

45:36moving from town to town, uh, and, and I know exactly what that means. I move so many times that

45:43a lot of people don't understand what this does psychologically, but when you don't have a

45:48foundational environment, you don't have foundations to your memories. So one of the problems I face is

45:55I struggle to remember things because I don't have these anchor points in time that I can go back

46:00to. And, you know, I lost a large, large part of my history. So this, this is a problem. Ironically,

46:06there are many, many people who are in the message called that are the same way because they're looking

46:13for something there. And it goes back to what I said earlier. They have a new and different gospel,

46:18but that new and different gospel is unfulfilling. So they'll go sit in a church and they mistakenly

46:24think that the problem is with the pastor. They say this guy, he's not matching what the other guy

46:29says. And the other guy is not matching Branham. So I'm going to go try another one and another and

46:34another and another. This is a common thing. I met families that moved around a lot.

46:38Actually, I didn't notice I didn't have any trauma moving around. I was the type that liked

46:45excitement. I liked I always would get friends would be exciting to move here and there. I didn't

46:52it didn't hit me until I was in my 20s when all that anxiety came. And I don't know, I think maybe

47:00either the Lord protected me against that trauma growing up. But then it hit me when I when I started

47:07experience all the rejection because of my dad. I really like the idea of you having a YouTube

47:13site and helping people. I think there's a big need in Norway. I've been in communications with

47:19some people who are out of Norway or Sweden. And there isn't a lot of help there. And I think it

47:26would be good. So maybe maybe I can help you set that up. And if I do, I will come back once you have

47:32it up and running. And I'll put the link in this description. So anybody who finds this can find

47:36you? Before that all of that's established, if you could give advice to people who have left the

47:43message and their potential for re-victimization, what advice would you give to them?

47:50Well, when I moved to a new place, I moved here in 2007, I just felt like I'm going to find the

47:57church that's closest to what I believe. And that's closest to what the Bible teaches and just

48:05try to plug in and do my best to serve God in a simple way and not have to, especially not to

48:12have to run after. I see people traveling all over the world, especially in Norwegians, because they

48:18have so much money. After this new preacher, that new conference, this new outpouring of the Holy

48:24Spirit, which they think, read your Bible. Be satisfied with loving the Lord. Back to what

48:34he said to me in that vision, love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and strength.

48:38And he will help you to love people. That's the essence of the gospel. Know your Bible.

48:45That's very good advice. I'm so glad that you came on to share your story with us. I'm sure it's going

48:50to encourage a lot of people. So thank you so much for doing this. Thank you. Well, if you've enjoyed

48:55our show and you want to share your story, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at

49:00william-brannum.org. For more about the dark side of the new apostolic reformation, you can read

49:05Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR. Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

49:11Music

Levi Larsen - The Missionary Who Brought Branham's Message to Norway - With Sissel Hoff

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