- 6/20/2025
John invites Cora to share her story about growing up as the granddaughter of Jock Troup, the preacher behind the Fisherman’s Revival. Their discussion opens with her family’s deep ties to revivalist movements in Scotland and later America, detailing how spiritual fervor intertwined with fear-based theology and strict religious rules. As Cora reflects on her grandfather’s ministry, she reveals how early exposure to doomsday messaging, harsh religious discipline, and emotionally charged conversion experiences shaped her mother’s childhood—and ultimately her own. Her family’s commitment to religious performance masked a darker emotional toll, leaving Cora to wrestle with contradictions between outward faith and private suffering.
As their conversation deepens, Cora describes her own upbringing marked by fear, spiritual pressure, and personal trauma under a stepfather who presented himself as a preacher. Despite this, she maintained a quiet, personal belief in God, even as she endured years of instability and abuse. Eventually, she entered adulthood struggling with addiction, spiritual disillusionment, and rejection from religious circles. Her journey through various charismatic and Word of Faith ministries led to more questions than answers. In time, she began critically investigating the teachings she had grown up with, leading her to a simple and personal understanding of the gospel that was free from manipulation and fear.
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
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As their conversation deepens, Cora describes her own upbringing marked by fear, spiritual pressure, and personal trauma under a stepfather who presented himself as a preacher. Despite this, she maintained a quiet, personal belief in God, even as she endured years of instability and abuse. Eventually, she entered adulthood struggling with addiction, spiritual disillusionment, and rejection from religious circles. Her journey through various charismatic and Word of Faith ministries led to more questions than answers. In time, she began critically investigating the teachings she had grown up with, leading her to a simple and personal understanding of the gospel that was free from manipulation and fear.
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:00:41at william-branham.org, and with me I have my very special guest, Cora Eppinga, granddaughter
00:00:47of Jack Troop from Scotland.
00:00:50Cora, it's good to have you, and I'm very excited to get into this because I'm fascinated with
00:00:55history, and this is a history that is little-known history to a lot of people, so that's where
00:01:01my favorite history lies, the things that nobody really knows about, so I'm excited to get into
00:01:07this, but before we do, maybe you could just tell everybody a little bit about yourself
00:01:11and how you are related to this history.
00:01:15Well, John, first of all, it's great to do this podcast with you.
00:01:19I'm honored because I really love the work you do, and your friend and colleague, Charles,
00:01:27and I've learned so much from you guys, and yeah, I'm the granddaughter, one of the granddaughters
00:01:35of Jock.
00:01:36It's not Jack, it's Jock, Troop, from Scotland, and it's called The Fisherman's Revival.
00:01:45In YouTube, there are videos about it, The Fisherman's Revival.
00:01:53My grandfather was a barrel maker, and he ended up in Ireland in a meeting from youth YMCA,
00:02:04and I still don't know what it stands for, YMCA.
00:02:09Do you know that, what it stands for?
00:02:11YMCA, we have this here in the United States, it's the Youth Men's Christian Association.
00:02:16That's probably the same thing there.
00:02:18It is.
00:02:19It was, he went for military service or something, he ended up in Dublin, my grandfather,
00:02:28at the YMCA there, and there he heard the gospel being preached, and there it lingered with him.
00:02:41Then he went back on the ship, he was on the ship, and then he, yeah, it bothered him so
00:02:48much, and he went into prayer, and he was converted right there, and he rushed out, and he told
00:02:55everybody on the ship, and from that moment on, he started preaching, and he intended Bible
00:03:03Training Institute in Glasgow after that in 1922, and then in 1932, he became the assistant
00:03:13of the superintendent at the tent hall in Glasgow, and the tent hall was built after Moody and
00:03:20Sankey held their campaigns in the city, and became a center of evangelism.
00:03:27It was one of the largest independent missions in the land, and my grandfather was superintendent
00:03:34until 1945, and he invited many powerful ministries and evangelists to Glasgow, and some names,
00:03:47I don't know these names, Donald Barnhouse, Evangelist W.P. Nicholson, James Orr, James
00:03:55Danny, Alexander White.
00:03:57I don't know, I don't know these people.
00:04:00That's what I found on YouTube, and Moody was the president of the YMCA.
00:04:08Yeah, it's interesting.
00:04:09I came across some of those names.
00:04:11I did not, they weren't in my area of interest, so I didn't fully document them, but I did come
00:04:15across those, because William Branham traced his spiritual lineage through Moody.
00:04:21Always he would mention Wesley and Moody and Finney and Sankey, I can't remember the order
00:04:26that he mentioned them, but if you think of his revival style, while the two are completely
00:04:32different religions, it's not the same at all, but the emotionalism, it appears that
00:04:37Branham borrowed that emotional persona that he got from these guys, so this movement indirectly
00:04:44influenced what became the latter rain movement in the United States.
00:04:48Yeah, well, like I say, my mother was only five, and when her father and her mother were always
00:04:58telling her that one day they would be raptured out of here, because it was like at the brink
00:05:06of World War II breaking out when she was five.
00:05:09She was born in 1934, my mother, and they made her so scared with that, that she would be left
00:05:20behind one of those days, since she did not give her heart to Jesus yet.
00:05:27So, yeah, don't you want to give your heart to Jesus? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:05:34You know, so she didn't know what she was doing, and this she told me later in life.
00:05:39And then her father took her on stage, and he held big, big, big meetings in the 10th Hall, and
00:05:45he held campaigns all over Scotland, and later a lot also in the USA.
00:05:50And so he took her on stage, young as she was, and he told thousands of people that his
00:05:59youngest daughter even already gave her heart to Christ, and she would serve the Lord, and
00:06:04she was just scared.
00:06:06That's what she told me.
00:06:09And then she was very gifted, my mother, very talented woman, and she could go to, how do
00:06:18you say that, in English, where you learn to play the piano as a professional?
00:06:24Yeah, basically a music school, a school of music and theater.
00:06:27Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:06:29And she was allowed to do that, but only for the purpose that she could play Christian music,
00:06:35and that's what she did.
00:06:38And after that, she always went accompanying her father at his crusades, and she would play
00:06:47the piano, and he would sing, and he would sing all those hymns, you know, back then, like
00:06:53Salvation Army hymns, and I don't know what hymns.
00:06:57But she was not allowed to play Chopin, she was not allowed to play any type of music, except
00:07:05for Christian music.
00:07:06So the only reason she was given permission to go to be a piano player was to serve the
00:07:15Lord, and so she could only play Chopin and that kind of things for study purposes, not
00:07:25for entertainment.
00:07:26That was from the devil.
00:07:27But she told me, one day she came home, and her father had important visitors, and he
00:07:38was sitting with them, and he invited her in the room, and he asked her to play Chopin
00:07:45for them.
00:07:47Wow.
00:07:47And that, for her, was like betrayal, and it mixed her up badly.
00:07:56She could not go to be a school, she could not wear trousers, she could not, it was very
00:08:02strictly, and I think that that's the influence from this Keswickianism.
00:08:07There's a lot of interlap.
00:08:10So I grew up in the same way.
00:08:11I could only play the gospel music, but while being taught, I could play Chopin, it wasn't
00:08:18Chopin, but, you know, some classical music styles that we played.
00:08:22Same with other people that I knew who were musicians, they could, but not for entertainment.
00:08:27And it goes back to the holiness style.
00:08:31It's really weird when you think about it.
00:08:34Bob Scott and I, we do another podcast series, but we were talking about this just recently.
00:08:39I think it'll come out before this one, but there came a point in time in which the culture
00:08:47around the church started to influence the church.
00:08:51And it came from many different angles, especially during World War II.
00:08:55As World War II was breaking out, and there was fears of, this is the war to end all wars,
00:09:00this is the biblical destruction that's coming.
00:09:03People started associating this with Armageddon.
00:09:05And then during the war, obviously, that hype caught on.
00:09:11And after the war, there was a period of time where everybody just kind of sat at ease.
00:09:16But then very, very soon afterwards, the fears of World War III started to creep in.
00:09:22And if you read the history, it's almost as though the ministers who got so much mileage
00:09:29out of World War II fears, it's like they brought this fear further on.
00:09:34Because they had already sold their entire platform to the notion that World War II
00:09:38was going to be the end of days.
00:09:41Well, what do you do?
00:09:41You can't take that back.
00:09:43So there must be a World War III.
00:09:45So through the religious arena, even though the cultures had influenced the movement,
00:09:50now the movement was starting to influence the culture.
00:09:53And it goes in this vicious, vicious cycle.
00:09:57But the holiness movement you're describing is very similar to what we had.
00:10:01And the little that I have read about Troop, his meetings were filled with this weepings
00:10:08and confessions and mass conversions.
00:10:10And you're using this fear.
00:10:12He was using this fear to basically do this.
00:10:15People weren't joining the movement and confessing to God because of their heart,
00:10:21because they were scared to death that they were going to die in World War III and World War II
00:10:26in the years before.
00:10:27That's the same way it was with Latter Rain.
00:10:29There are these mass conventions, mass conversions, and everybody's scared to death they're going to die.
00:10:34Well, then what happens is after that subsides, what happens?
00:10:38The movement just kind of implodes.
00:10:40Yeah, my mother went to, this is a very weird story, during World War II.
00:10:47He already had friends in the United States.
00:10:52My grandfather, I maybe already traveled there back then.
00:10:57Anyway, he sent his wife and the children in a convoy, very dangerous convoy, to America
00:11:03when the bombings were about to hit Glasgow, and he had to walk guard.
00:11:11So he stayed behind.
00:11:13And he sent them to friends of his in the United States, and they lived like upstate New York
00:11:20or somewhere, and they were very rich.
00:11:24He had like fabrics of panties, nylons, and they drove to church in like a Rolls Royce or a Bentley,
00:11:35and they had the front seat in church, and they had this big, big, big mansion.
00:11:40And my mother and her mother and her brother and other sisters stayed there.
00:11:46And she told me some weird things about that family.
00:11:54She said there were these two boys, they had two sons, and they were like more to their 20s
00:12:01or something, and there were fights, and it was not nice.
00:12:06And then she mentioned that there were parties, at least one, she told me of, and everybody
00:12:13was masked, and she was, she was very small.
00:12:17She was maybe seven, eight, nine, something like that.
00:12:20Not so small anymore, but, and everybody was wearing masks.
00:12:26And she said, I was so afraid because even my mother was wearing a mask.
00:12:30And then I think, what, I don't know, what party is that?
00:12:36For Christians, you mean?
00:12:38I guess it was a typical socialite party of the year.
00:12:43They used to do this kind of thing, but in some of the social circles, it got weirder
00:12:49because everybody's having a mask, and the husbands and wives are mingling with each other
00:12:54in ways that they couldn't do if they did not have the mask.
00:12:57So there's some questions as to what was actually going on there.
00:13:01One thing you said that is curious, though, John Alexander Dowie, who was also from Scotland,
00:13:09who came to the United States, the biggest con artist in United States history in religion,
00:13:15there was a point in time in which he made a lot of money by bringing in English lace,
00:13:23I think it was English lace, into the United States.
00:13:26It wasn't here before, and I know that he set up some establishments in New York.
00:13:31I'm wondering, was that connected, if they had some sort of a connection to this movement?
00:13:36I hope to find out one day more about it.
00:13:39I found, and I sent it to you, I found a quite extensive document on my grandfather,
00:13:50and then there is many travel schedules in there.
00:13:52But they're so small, and it's very old-fashioned, but it's all his travel schedules to the United States.
00:14:00I have another story from my mother concerning that.
00:14:04My mother told, and this he told her, her own father, when he was still alive,
00:14:10that one day he was invited to some Baptist something.
00:14:16I think it was a Baptist church or something, and then they took him around the building,
00:14:23and then they took him down in the basements, and somehow they invited him to the Ku Klux Klan.
00:14:34Wow, that's amazing.
00:14:35Do you know what year that would have been?
00:14:37No, I don't know.
00:14:38I mean, he died in, oh, when he died, do I have it here?
00:14:46My grandfather died when he was like 54, 5, 6, and he died in the United States preaching.
00:14:53My mother also went to Moody's Bible College in Chicago.
00:14:58Yeah, see, there was this weird period of time, and I don't know how yet to unpack it in a way that people understand it,
00:15:06because there was a point in time in which it was popular to join the Klan,
00:15:12and many people who joined it had no idea that it was a domestic terrorist organization.
00:15:17That popularity was suddenly exposed in, I think it was the year 1923 or 1924.
00:15:26New York World published this big expose how they were invading governments,
00:15:30and they were basically replacing government officials, and they owned towns.
00:15:36The Klan owned towns.
00:15:39And there came a point in time in which they were exposed,
00:15:41and then all heck broke loose,
00:15:45because they started investigating all of the financial dealings and the pyramid schemes
00:15:50and the corruption that was in the movement, and it flowed all the way to the top.
00:15:54So there's a point in time in which it got exposed as being very dirty.
00:15:59And then, once it did, all of the vigilante justice was also exposed with it,
00:16:07and all of the people of ill intent decided that they liked this,
00:16:11so then it became excessively worse, and it grew into the Indiana Klan, which is here.
00:16:16So there's a point in time in which people may have joined in with this not knowing how bad it was.
00:16:22Then there's a point in time in which people joined in knowing how bad it was.
00:16:26So, you know, depending on the timeline, it could be good or bad.
00:16:31But then, I'm starting to understand that there were key figures in the religious,
00:16:37especially the fundamentalist and holiness movements,
00:16:40that were joining in because the Christian identity doctrine was all throughout the United States,
00:16:47and they were starting to believe that the—it was also tied to this doomsday theory that was coming out.
00:16:55They're starting to believe that the identity of the British Israelism, the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel,
00:17:03the identity of that version of Christianity was rising to an end-of-days war with people who weren't of that tribe.
00:17:12And through the Klan and various other institutions, they started pointing this at people who had black skin.
00:17:17And that's part of the history.
00:17:19But there were some very, very infamous people in the United States who were very popular in religion that were joining into this.
00:17:29Charles Fox Parham had KKK posters in some of his meetings.
00:17:34That kind of thing is going on.
00:17:36And he's—as the Azusa Street revival is breaking out, he's in direct communication with William Joseph Seymour, who is black.
00:17:43But the way that it is structured, the people who were in white supremacy could associate with people who were black as long as they were a subordinate.
00:17:56So even that, you know, there's a lot of explanation there.
00:18:00But depending on the timeline, it gets really interesting because did he come during the years in which it was infamous,
00:18:05or did he come during the years that it was just popular?
00:18:09Yeah.
00:18:10I only know he didn't like it.
00:18:13But he refused.
00:18:14He didn't want nothing to do with it.
00:18:17So that's, I know, from my mother.
00:18:22But yeah, I bet since he was big in that day, especially in Scotland, but also in the United States,
00:18:29he was a lot preaching in the United States.
00:18:31So he must have been in contact with all these guys.
00:18:36He must have known about Branham and all these guys.
00:18:39I mean, they were all around that years, you know.
00:18:43So, yeah.
00:18:44But it struck me lately that the doomsday part of it, that he was a doomsday preacher, you know.
00:18:54Rapture, doomsday rapture preacher.
00:18:56That's who he was, that's who he was, and that's what, it devastated my mother, you know.
00:19:05Yeah.
00:19:06But yeah, she looked up to him.
00:19:07She loved him very dearly.
00:19:09She spent years with him, playing the piano.
00:19:15And after he died, what year?
00:19:19I think around 58 or something like that.
00:19:25She went to Holland, no, she went to Belgium with her sister for, it was a symposium, some Christian symposium.
00:19:35And there she meets this Dutch man, and he portrayed himself as an evangelist.
00:19:47And his father was an evangelist too, and he was a musician.
00:19:53And he asked my mother if she could help him with some things regarding music or whatever.
00:20:02He was doing some projects, and she decided to help him with that.
00:20:06And then he tricked her into giving her money to return to Scotland.
00:20:13To him, he had this story that he was going to lose his house.
00:20:18He was, I don't know what happened, but she gave him the money.
00:20:23Then she was stuck.
00:20:25He tricked her into sleeping with him.
00:20:29She got pregnant, and here she was stuck in the Netherlands all of a sudden.
00:20:34Wow, that's a crazy story.
00:20:39So, like I said, I've been studying briefly, Troop, and trying to understand how all of this fits in.
00:20:47Because I've also been studying Finney and Knox and that movement.
00:20:51And at first glance, when you first contacted me, I reached out to just different various sources trying to understand the spider web of connections.
00:21:00Because there are many.
00:21:01And at first glance, I thought, well, this isn't connected at all.
00:21:04This is a complete separate thing.
00:21:06But then I came across some research that sort of may answer the question, does this all connect?
00:21:16And it appears Troop was involved with the, like you said, the Brethren sects.
00:21:21But also, when he came into the United States, as I understand it, and you can correct me if this is wrong.
00:21:26But it seems as though he got very tied into the evangelical move for non-denominational evangelical groups.
00:21:37Which would have been everything that Latter Rain was built upon.
00:21:40When William Branham started his Latter Rain tours, it was called an Inter-Evangelical Movement.
00:21:47Because it, like Troop, Branham was saying, everybody's welcome unless you're in a denomination.
00:21:52It's, and inter-denominational also means if you're in these denominations and you're willing to lay down your denominational ties and come join with us, you can do that too.
00:22:02Which Troop also did.
00:22:03But the Klan thing that you mentioned, the Brethren thing that you mentioned, all of that raises a bigger question.
00:22:11Because in the, when the Indiana, when the Klan moved to Indiana, and the Indiana Klan established its headquarters, it established it in a church.
00:22:21And the church was created by the Brethren, by a significant figure in the Brethren Movement.
00:22:27So the Brethren was associated to this big movement.
00:22:31And William Branham was also tied into this.
00:22:35And at that time, if I remember correctly, and I'd have to go back and look at my notes, but I think even his second wife, I think, was, the marriage was performed by a Brethren minister.
00:22:46Right.
00:22:46So, depending on the timeline, some of the dates that you're mentioning here could have actually put them in connection with each other.
00:22:54Yeah, yeah.
00:22:55I'm sure they heard about each other.
00:22:58They were moving in the same kind of circles.
00:23:01Yeah, I think so.
00:23:03Especially the Moody, the influence of Moody was heavily on my grandfather.
00:23:08And on my mother, too.
00:23:10I mean, she went to Bible college there.
00:23:13So, yeah.
00:23:14But, yeah.
00:23:15She ended up in Holland and pregnant with my elder sister, older sister.
00:23:22And the man she married to, he was also very strict.
00:23:31I grew up like, there were so many words I could not say, random words, you know, I could not say because that was derived from a curse word or whatever was it.
00:23:47And we could not wear pants.
00:23:49We could not see television.
00:23:51And we could not listen.
00:23:54Classical music, that was allowed.
00:23:57He was not strict in that.
00:24:00Classical music was allowed.
00:24:01My mother had a big, big, what do you call it?
00:24:05Piano with this, a big piano with a, how do you call it?
00:24:12We call it a, yeah, we call it a grand piano.
00:24:15A grand piano.
00:24:17She had a grand piano.
00:24:18She had a normal piano.
00:24:20She gave lessons to make some money.
00:24:23And he, yeah, he was, he preached everywhere.
00:24:31At a point, he had his own little church.
00:24:36He was not from any denomination to her husband.
00:24:42I always have a, nowadays, a little bit difficult to say my father because I'm quite sure he was not my real father.
00:24:50I found out later in life.
00:24:52But there was always, there was a lot of fighting and screaming in the house.
00:24:59And it was always, as I remember, since I remember anything in life, it was about this man.
00:25:06And my mother was having an affair with this man.
00:25:10And, and later I found out that he was married twice before.
00:25:15And his mother, every Sunday we went to visit his mother and his father.
00:25:22And his father was also an evangelist.
00:25:26He was now retired.
00:25:28And, but his mother hated my mother.
00:25:33Hated my mother.
00:25:34But I guess she hated any woman.
00:25:36No woman was good enough for her son.
00:25:39She was a terrible woman.
00:25:41I remember her as a terrible woman.
00:25:43She would, small as I was, she would tell me, your mother is a hooker.
00:25:50And your mother is this.
00:25:52And, you know.
00:25:53And, and every Sunday we would sit there.
00:25:56And, and then this, this, this would be the thing.
00:26:00She would be, be, be calling my mother.
00:26:02In the beginning, I remember being very small.
00:26:05My mother went even with, to these visits.
00:26:10And, and then my grandmother was, was just, you know, shouting.
00:26:15And my mother was crying.
00:26:18And, and, and my father was upset.
00:26:20And so, soon enough, my mother didn't go there anymore.
00:26:25But we went every Sunday.
00:26:26And that was just ranting about my mother.
00:26:29And then we would drive home and, and he would be ballistic driving, cursing and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and punching the steering wheel.
00:26:41And one time he, he punched it so hard that the thing broke.
00:26:45Oh, wow.
00:26:47And, I remember sitting in the back and I was so small.
00:26:51So, I just thought I had, many times I had my hand on the door, on the door handle.
00:26:57And I think, wow, I don't know how long this, but then I will just step out of the car.
00:27:03I thought you could do that, you know, of course you cannot.
00:27:08And then he would come home and, oh boy, he, I've seen him beating up my mother.
00:27:14And, yeah, it was, and, and he didn't like me because he suspected I was not his child.
00:27:22And I think I wasn't.
00:27:25And he would punish us severely when we did something wrong or said the wrong word or whatever.
00:27:34Oh boy.
00:27:35He would take you on his lap and, and, and strap you from your pants.
00:27:39And then he would slap your bottom.
00:27:43But hard and long, hard and long.
00:27:47It was not just a few, no, no, no, no.
00:27:51I remember myself one time crying, begging in front of him on my knees as a little girl.
00:27:58Mercy, please, Papa, mercy, mercy.
00:28:01No, no, there was no mercy.
00:28:03You could not sit after that.
00:28:05That's how painful it was.
00:28:07Um, yeah.
00:28:09And then he was an evangelist.
00:28:11Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started, or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic, and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?
00:28:25You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website, william-branham.org.
00:28:31On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.
00:28:46You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements.
00:28:52If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the Contribute button at the top.
00:28:59And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching.
00:29:06On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.
00:29:10Everything that you've been describing so eerily matches the way that we grew up.
00:29:16There were things that we couldn't say.
00:29:18There were things that we couldn't do.
00:29:20But also, your proximity to a person who had a public presence.
00:29:27That reminds me, in many ways, of myself.
00:29:30Because I was around all of these people who worshipped the floor that many of these guys walked on.
00:29:36But whenever they were offstage, their personalities weren't really Christian in many cases.
00:29:43Some of the things that they did, the way that they acted, the way that they treated people, it was just so wrong.
00:29:49And long after leaving, and I'm studying what is real Christianity, and understanding that there's a change of the heart that comes with Christianity that seems to be absent in these ministries,
00:30:03I began to realize that there's a big difference between Christianity and the thing that I was raised up in.
00:30:07But it made me reflect on all of the doctrines that were created, that swayed it in that direction.
00:30:17There were so many things that were just so wrong and so off base, and the focus was wrong.
00:30:21Like you, we were focused on Doomsday, and it made people angry.
00:30:25Because all you're thinking about is doom and destruction.
00:30:28And you're focused on, you know, did I say the right thing?
00:30:32Did I say the wrong word?
00:30:33Is God going to punish me because I said the wrong word?
00:30:35That kind of thing.
00:30:36So as a child raised in this, it wreaks havoc on your mind.
00:30:41What was it like for you growing up in this, doctrinally trying to wade through and navigate through all of the chaos that was in religion?
00:30:51What was that like for you?
00:30:52For me, it was like this.
00:30:54And the thing with me is I have a very clear memory about all my life.
00:31:01I have memories of being a baby.
00:31:03It's weird, but it's true.
00:31:05I remember being very small, and I was a very strong believer, you know.
00:31:12And when I would walk in fields, our house was in a very little village, and then it was just fields surrounding the house.
00:31:21And I loved it.
00:31:22And when I was walking in the fields, and I saw the flowers and the beautiful clouds and everything, I would experience such a joy.
00:31:31And such a heavenly joy would come over me, and I would be walking as little as I was, and I was praising God.
00:31:41Like, oh, you're so magnificent, and I experienced such a joy, and I knew it was the joy of the Lord.
00:31:48And I didn't tell anybody, and I didn't tell anybody, because I knew if I would say to anybody, nobody would understand what I was talking about.
00:31:57So I kept it to myself.
00:31:58I saw the, like, for instance, when my father invited people to the house.
00:32:09And he loved to invite people to the house.
00:32:12My mother also did.
00:32:14Everybody was welcome.
00:32:16But when there were people in the house, especially choir members from him, I always thought about, like, you guys have no idea who he is.
00:32:24You have, I was so, the suffering I saw, my mother's suffering, and I just knew nobody else had any idea.
00:32:38He was this great, oh, hallelujah, Wim Eppingha, you know.
00:32:42One time I remember he had this thing, then he took us to Pentecostal churches.
00:32:47We went to all kinds of churches with him, very, very old-fashioned ones.
00:32:50But even he, a time he joined the Seventh-day Adventist, that you have the Sabbath and such.
00:33:00And then we had Sabbath in the house.
00:33:02And then there was this Pentecostal church he took us to.
00:33:05And I remember being very small and seeing a lot of black people.
00:33:10And they would go into trances and screaming.
00:33:13And I was like, where am I now?
00:33:15And my father would say, that's the Holy Spirit.
00:33:19That's the Holy Spirit.
00:33:20And I don't know.
00:33:24So my personal belief in God was very strong, has always been.
00:33:29But I did not see anything of that in the house.
00:33:36It was the opposite of all that.
00:33:38And I couldn't figure it out.
00:33:41How come?
00:33:42I remember being four, something like that.
00:33:46And I sat with my mother.
00:33:48And she was doing ironing.
00:33:50And I was just playing around.
00:33:51And I had this very strong something.
00:33:55And I thought about it.
00:33:57And I said to my mom, yeah.
00:33:59I said, mom, I have a calling on my life.
00:34:03What?
00:34:04I said, I have a calling on my life, mom.
00:34:06And I was very small.
00:34:07And my mother got angry with me.
00:34:09And even then, I understood in a way that.
00:34:15But later on, you think about it.
00:34:17Because, yeah, her life was, you know, not fun at all.
00:34:21And her father was this big evangelist.
00:34:23And she thought that she would marry a guy who was like her father.
00:34:29He was the opposite of everything her father was.
00:34:32You know, he was a very decent man, her father.
00:34:35And he was good to his wife and his children.
00:34:39You know, he was not a bully or anything.
00:34:41No, she spoke with high respect of him.
00:34:45So, yeah, I touched in her hurt saying that.
00:34:51And, yeah, I remember when it would thunder.
00:34:57There would be heavy thunders.
00:34:58He would get us all out of bed.
00:35:00And we had to sit in the living room with coats on and everything.
00:35:04And he would be all screaming about the end of the world and Israel.
00:35:10And we would be so scared.
00:35:14I'm laughing.
00:35:15But I remember, not from my father, but I remember other people who just,
00:35:20they weren't quite mentally stable, I think.
00:35:22But they would go off into weird things like that.
00:35:25Whenever anything normal happened, they would see it as this sign.
00:35:29And it's something that's not normal is happening.
00:35:31And any other family from any other religion that we're visiting would say,
00:35:35what is this mess?
00:35:37What's happening here?
00:35:38Yeah.
00:35:39Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:39We went to a school in another village because our village was so small,
00:35:45there was no school.
00:35:45And we were poor, you know, and we were, that school was a public school.
00:35:54It was the only school in the area.
00:35:56But we were the children of that crazy preacher.
00:36:00And you were labeled as such.
00:36:02And there was nothing you could do about it.
00:36:04You know, the epic gaartjes, the epic gaartjes, you know, from that.
00:36:07But he would also, he said he could restorate antique organs, pipe organs.
00:36:17So the villages, this I found out a few years ago in old newspaper articles,
00:36:23that he would go to restorate pipe organs from like 1200s, 1300s, 1400s, very old.
00:36:34And he would mess the whole thing up.
00:36:38He would take out pipes and place other pipes.
00:36:43And he would take the pipes to his own house.
00:36:46I remember police ringing the door.
00:36:51And so he would mess up fairly antique.
00:36:54And they had to force him legally to stop that activities.
00:36:58And I found it out years later, you know, in old newspapers.
00:37:02And then I remember back as a little child.
00:37:05Yeah, yeah.
00:37:06And then we would drive past the church.
00:37:10And then he would raise his face to the church.
00:37:12Yeah.
00:37:14You know, it's funny what you can find in the newspapers.
00:37:16When I was doing all my research on the Klan and I was studying Branham's mentor,
00:37:21there was this one article that somebody tipped me off that it was there.
00:37:26So I go to the library and look, and the guy had stole – he had – like your father,
00:37:32he was holding all these revival meetings, right?
00:37:35Well, he goes into this one church and holds this revival meeting.
00:37:38And I guess after the service, he stole their piano.
00:37:42So effectively, the piano that William Branham would have used in the church would have been
00:37:48a stolen piano, if I'm understanding the timeline correctly.
00:37:51It's just – it's amazing what you find in the paper.
00:37:54And these guys, they're just – to the people who are worshipping, they don't really think
00:37:59about the characters that they're putting – lifting these guys up into places that are
00:38:05above any other human should be.
00:38:07They don't think about their characters.
00:38:08But anybody who knew them offstage, they're like, this is not right, what's happening here.
00:38:13Right, well, I saw that, and I couldn't understand it.
00:38:21And like you say, this was my problems for most part of my life, in the end, that I went
00:38:29to all these churches, and I was in this Christian world where I grew up, and you have Christian
00:38:35friends.
00:38:36I didn't have only Christian friends, but they all believe in Jesus, and they all go
00:38:45to church and shout hallelujah, and they say they have the Holy Spirit, and I don't know
00:38:49what.
00:38:50But then in daily life, they are so different.
00:38:53They gossip.
00:38:54They do terrible things.
00:38:56And much, much later in life, I understood the gospel.
00:39:02It took me so many years to figure it out.
00:39:06Like, I came to a point later in life, what the heck is this?
00:39:11What am I into?
00:39:13You know?
00:39:14And then I stopped going to churches, and I started reading my Bible, and I started praying
00:39:19and just pleading, like, what is the gospel?
00:39:24Explain to me.
00:39:25I need to know.
00:39:26What is the gospel?
00:39:28I remember that journey, because there comes a point when you leave, it's interesting.
00:39:34You're really afraid of leaving, because you know that everybody is going to gossip about
00:39:40you, because you were in the same movement you did it yourself, or you watched your parents,
00:39:44et cetera, doing it.
00:39:45And so when you leave, there's this weird fear.
00:39:49The people that I've worked with in the support groups that we've managed, that's the number
00:39:54one fear.
00:39:55When they leave, they worry about what everybody's going to say about them, because they know
00:39:59that's the way this works.
00:40:01And that's not the spirit of Christ.
00:40:03That's not how Christian people should act.
00:40:06And it's interesting, because after we left the Branham cult, I started attending different
00:40:11churches.
00:40:11Well, the very first church that we were at, we stayed there for quite a while, and we
00:40:16stayed there after we realized that we weren't really a fit for it, but we were also kind
00:40:22of reluctant to leave, because we thought the same thing would happen.
00:40:26And then when we left and it didn't happen, I'm scratching my head thinking, wait a minute,
00:40:30that whole thing that we had was wrong in the cult.
00:40:34You're not supposed to do this, and normal people don't do this.
00:40:36It goes beyond even, is this a religious thing or not?
00:40:40It goes toward just humanity.
00:40:44Good people don't do this to other people.
00:40:46Whether you're a Christian or not, good people don't act like this.
00:40:50So, after you said that you discovered the gospel and you realized that this was different,
00:40:58let's talk about that a bit.
00:40:59What was that like when you started to understand what the gospel was?
00:41:03What were the first thoughts that went through your head as you started to compare with what
00:41:07you came from?
00:41:08That I always knew it, but I, how do I say, many years when I went to all these kind of
00:41:18charismatic churches, and it always ended up because then the church would implode.
00:41:25It would turn out the pastor had an affair.
00:41:28Or, um, that would be split up over money issues, or whatever.
00:41:34And, I've been moving a lot, so I went to many different churches.
00:41:38But it always ended up in, in, in, you know, what is this here?
00:41:43Why is this?
00:41:44But when I was in home, and when I was reading my Bible, it always painted a very different
00:41:52picture, and I always experienced God like this loving Father, when I read my Bible in
00:42:00private.
00:42:01And I always kept going back somehow to the gospel of Christ, and I read it over and over
00:42:08and over and over again.
00:42:10And I always said to myself, yeah, this is easy.
00:42:13This I understand.
00:42:14It's easy not to lie.
00:42:16It's easy if people steal from you, like Jesus says.
00:42:19Let them have it.
00:42:20Don't go after it.
00:42:21If you borrow, don't ask back.
00:42:24The teachings of Jesus, that's the gospel.
00:42:28And when I read that, I always thought, yeah, I know that.
00:42:31That's easy.
00:42:32For me, that was easy to do.
00:42:33But in these churches, and I went, when I was, it started like this, me even going to
00:42:46these churches, because this, this father of mine died in a car accident when I was
00:42:53just two weeks, I just turned nine years old.
00:42:56And, and he died in a car accident.
00:43:00He wanted to take me, by the way, and I didn't go.
00:43:04And my mother was having an affair.
00:43:08They were in divorce by then.
00:43:11The marriage was, was, was always been a mess.
00:43:13And by then they were in a, in a divorce.
00:43:16And my mother had an, had a, had an affair with a, with this guy.
00:43:20And he was not a Christian.
00:43:23And, um, so the same night, um, the same evening, we got word that, uh, our father died.
00:43:30He came to the house and they made a party, uh, celebrating the death of the other one.
00:43:38And, um, well, that's, uh, five years, the five following years were, were like really
00:43:46horror and, um, it became a house of horror.
00:43:53And, uh, when I was my 14, in the end, I, uh, kind of escaped.
00:43:59And I ended up in, uh, foster parents' homes, uh, that it was terrible, um, SA and, and all
00:44:10that kind of terrible things.
00:44:13And I escaped when I was 15 and I went, uh, they wanted to lock me up in, um, in a special
00:44:22house for difficult children.
00:44:24And I thought if, if I end up there, no, no, no.
00:44:27So I, I just fled and I, um, I just fled.
00:44:32I just went under in the, uh, in, uh, in the city where I thought nobody, nobody knows
00:44:39me there and, and, um, I was from my 14 on, it started in my first foster parent home.
00:44:48I started to smoke weed.
00:44:50Um, I started to drink heavily because they were all drunkards and I never drank in my
00:44:54life, was not allowed.
00:44:56And the first night I came there, they just fed me a bottle of rum.
00:45:00And I was so programmed to do anything that I was told, um, because of the previous five
00:45:07years with my stepfather, that was so horrendous.
00:45:11So I, I just did anything that an adult told me I would do it.
00:45:17And so, um, they were all alcoholics there.
00:45:21And they said, uh, and I was just 14 and I wake up, I, I drank myself in a coma that first
00:45:27night.
00:45:28And, um, and I didn't know what, what, what, what it was.
00:45:33Hang on.
00:45:33I didn't know nothing about all that.
00:45:35And they just said, well, we all have problems.
00:45:37You just drink.
00:45:39And I became a coma drinker.
00:45:42And, uh, so then I, um, I started, um, smoking weed and, uh, I thought, well, this is a way
00:45:50not to be in this world, you know, because I was very traumatized.
00:45:54Well, anyway, by the time I was 17, I was living in the streets.
00:45:59I was, uh, hooked on heroin and, uh, speed.
00:46:03I, I shot it up my veins.
00:46:05I was, and I would drink anything.
00:46:08I would just, you know, that was me.
00:46:11And then, um, long story short, um, I contacted my mother and I went to her and the first thing
00:46:23she gave was a Bible study from Derek Prince.
00:46:28Wow.
00:46:32Word of faith.
00:46:35And she arranged, uh, for me to go to this clinic for, um, for addicted people.
00:46:42And it was a Christian clinic and, um, it was connected to this big, um, charismatic church
00:46:52and you had to go there.
00:46:56And that was every Sunday.
00:46:58Then there was Saturdays.
00:47:00Then there was, uh, the, I think Thursday nights.
00:47:03Then you had prayer meetings and it would consume a lot of your time.
00:47:09And, and they were, uh, they still exist in Rotterdam.
00:47:14It's a big church.
00:47:15And, uh, now they have these battle guys over the air.
00:47:18And back then they invited people like the hunters, you know, but you were, and then they
00:47:25had campaigns and that was seven days a week and it would go on to in the middle of the
00:47:30night and, and, and they would introduce this holy laughter and, and, and, and falling
00:47:36in the spirit and all this weird things.
00:47:40But what it did with me was like, I never experienced holy laughter.
00:47:46I never had to fall.
00:47:47I never had this, and everybody around me had.
00:47:51So I thought, you're not good enough.
00:47:55Jesus passes you by.
00:47:57See, he touches that one.
00:47:59He touches that one.
00:48:00He, but you, no, Cora.
00:48:01And I got so depressed with that.
00:48:05So depressed.
00:48:05Why?
00:48:06Because I was rejected all my life.
00:48:08I was rejected by my father.
00:48:09I was rejected by my stepfather, by my mother.
00:48:12In foster parents' homes.
00:48:14And here again, so it was for me, yeah, I'm, I'm not, I'm not good enough.
00:48:18There will always be something with, I felt always like, I'm the, I'm the black sheep.
00:48:23I, I didn't smoke.
00:48:25I didn't drink.
00:48:25I, I did everything, you know, good.
00:48:28But, see, Jesus passes you by.
00:48:32Made me very depressed.
00:48:34And, yeah, in the end, and, and, and they were also, I mean, that's just like, if you leave here, you will end up in the gutter.
00:48:43And, you know, oh, it was so cultish.
00:48:47It was so cultish.
00:48:48But, yeah, I believed it because a man on stage said, I have the Holy Spirit and, oh, I see angels in this.
00:48:57And I was like, oh, you know, looking up to, I believed it.
00:49:03What was it that made you eventually leave that and go into a different church?
00:49:08Um, that church was, um, that was a split up.
00:49:12Uh, after I, I left the clinic, I got married to my first husband.
00:49:17And, um, and that was a big split up in that church over the money and I don't know what.
00:49:23And, uh, also in the center where I was, there was a split up because of the same things.
00:49:28And, uh, so it became very messy.
00:49:30And then I decided, we decided, my husband and me to join, uh, some people, friends of us who left that church, put another church.
00:49:38And we went with them, with them.
00:49:41And that was more a kind of a liberal church.
00:49:44Uh, but it was also like, oh, come Holy Spirit and Holy Spirit and Holy Spirit and, and like that.
00:49:52And, and yeah, there came a point, um, I had to, um, I left my husband, uh, I, I had a child with him.
00:50:02I had a, also a miscarriage and, but he was, um, on, uh, on drugs a lot.
00:50:11And, uh, then he would beat me up and there came a point.
00:50:15I, I picked up my daughter and I left.
00:50:18And I went back to, uh, to the part of Holland where I grew up.
00:50:24Um, and then, um, I went back to, I was 15.
00:50:32I, I, it's, my story is so big, you know, but when I was 15, I lived together with a guy and he was the first, uh, man that I gave myself voluntarily to as a woman.
00:50:45Um, but before that, you know, uh, I was raped, I was abused, uh, even as a small child already.
00:50:52Um, not by, my, my father, but by an employee of him.
00:50:56And I don't know how long it went on, a year, I don't know, very small.
00:51:02So yeah, that was the pattern always in my life.
00:51:04And he was the first one, uh, I, I fell in love with him and I lived with him.
00:51:10I was only, I was only a child.
00:51:12And I went back to the part of, of Holland, uh, where I grew up.
00:51:17And I wanted to know if, if, if he was still alive or what became of him.
00:51:23And it was like, he was waiting for me.
00:51:25We hadn't seen each other for like 12 years.
00:51:27He was a heathen.
00:51:28He was not a believer at all.
00:51:30He was a drummer.
00:51:31He was a musician and, and, you know, kind of a artistic guy.
00:51:37Yeah.
00:51:38And in no time we were back together, you know, and, uh, I had, um, two more children with him.
00:51:46And, uh, I did visit churches, but, uh, one church I would go to.
00:51:55And then the, the, it would turn out that the pastor was having an affair.
00:52:00So the church split up and, uh, you know, it was always things like that.
00:52:06And, um, I went to, during that years, I, um, came in contact with, uh, Benny Hinn.
00:52:16I never heard of him.
00:52:18And I had a, a, a friend I met in a church and she gives me, she, she, she had always a,
00:52:24uh, God television on.
00:52:26And then I started watching Benny Hinn and, uh, that, uh, good morning, Holy Spirit and
00:52:32all, but, and that, uh, there were big campaigns also in Holland.
00:52:38Um, he's now in America.
00:52:41I don't know if I can say a name or not, but, uh, house of heroes was in Holland, a big church.
00:52:49And his name is Matthäus van der Steen.
00:52:51And he now is, works in Florida from Florida.
00:52:54He moved to Florida and he had this big, uh, meetings, uh, fire nights.
00:53:00And I would go there.
00:53:03Um, because as the years passed, how can I say that?
00:53:09Um, it's hard to explain really.
00:53:12They always keep, there is more and you need more of the spirit and, and, and you are lacking
00:53:19of something.
00:53:21And we have a phrase here in the United States.
00:53:23It's the carrot on the stick.
00:53:25You're always, you're always following after trying to get the carrot, but you're holding
00:53:30the stick and it's always further away.
00:53:32That's how this is the carrot on the stick type of religion.
00:53:35You're always seeking after the thing that never comes.
00:53:38Yeah.
00:53:38And, and, and you always think it's me, it's, I'm doing something wrong.
00:53:42I'm not good enough.
00:53:43I'm not holy enough.
00:53:44I, I, you know, and, and, um, I was divorced from my first husband.
00:53:51Um, I went back to, to, to the lover of my youth.
00:53:55So I was already, you know, if I may, oh, I, I always, that years, I always prayed like,
00:54:01God, I, I have to hold on to the fact that, that you love me and I am saved by the blood
00:54:09of Christ.
00:54:10That if I don't believe that I, I might as well, I might as well give up, you know, many
00:54:15years, that was my only, because I never felt good enough.
00:54:19Then I was married to this heathen.
00:54:21Then I, I became a singer in a band, um, even to make ends meet.
00:54:28You know, I had to work, so I, I became a singer and, and, oh, but that was of course
00:54:33not, not so Christian.
00:54:35And, and I went back to smoking cigarettes at times, you know, oh, and, and everybody
00:54:43was so holy, but I was not.
00:54:45That's the impression, uh, you get.
00:54:48But there came a point, um, I picked up a book in the church I was attending and they
00:54:56had a library and I was looking around and I just picked a book from a shelf and it was
00:55:00a very thick book and it was about the history of Catholicism and I never gave it much thought.
00:55:08I knew Catholicism is, is different, you know, it's not the gospel of Christ, but hey, and
00:55:14then it had all the history of the Catholic church.
00:55:18And, and, and through the centuries, like the killings, the, the, like whole villages were
00:55:26buried alive and, and, and people were put to stakes and to burn and by the Catholic church.
00:55:34And I was, it kept me awake for night, it, it, it, you know, like the suffering for Christ
00:55:39by the Catholic church, you know, wow.
00:55:42So, then I visited this fire night, uh, from this, uh, house of heroes, Matthäus van der
00:55:50Steen, and there was Angela Greening and she was on stage and, uh, oh man, she was so full
00:55:58of the Holy Spirit, that's what they say about themselves and I believed it back then and she
00:56:04was having this sword and she was a demon slayer and I was impressed and then she starts telling
00:56:10this story, yeah, I was in, uh, this country or what and I was, uh, working with my Catholic
00:56:17brothers and sisters there and I think, what, what are you, I just read the book and then she stands
00:56:23there with the sword and she said, I am a proud Catholic, she says, and I'm like, wait a minute,
00:56:31here, you know, and I already discovered before that, I discovered, uh, information about Kenneth
00:56:40Copeland stating he is a Freemason, so that already, I, I thought, wait a minute, somebody
00:56:49cannot have the Holy Spirit and, and be a Freemason, that, that, that's not possible, but when this
00:56:55guy is Freemason, I mean, he is like a God's general, so, and then this with Angela Greening on top of that,
00:57:04so that made me really think like, what, there's something very wrong here, you know, and, and, and I
00:57:15started to, then I started to research my sister, my two-year-old sister, she started, um, her own little
00:57:26mini cultish thing, she still has it, and, uh, of course, I had to come over always and help with
00:57:35this and help with that and, and, and, and, and, and, yeah, she asked me, she wanted to launch her
00:57:42new ministry, B, so she invited this guy to speak and that guy to come and what all were the fake
00:57:49preachers, we were in the middle of that, but I didn't, I didn't realize really, you know, that that
00:57:55was the problem, then she asked me, could you, uh, could you also in that meeting and maybe give a
00:58:01little, uh, study on something called that, and I took it very seriously, so I started praying and I,
00:58:09and then I got this idea, you know what, I'm going to research this Word of Faith thing,
00:58:17so I started researching history, and that opened my eyes, like, whoa, okay, and I made this big
00:58:28document about it, I, I did a few weeks of really research on it, and, and, um, I made a big document,
00:58:37and then came the day, uh, so I gave this presentation, I thought everybody will be excited,
00:58:44no, we will never welcome anyone there, because another church hosted her, you know, so we were
00:58:51never welcome there anymore, and I started to speak out on Facebook, then I had Facebook,
00:58:57and I started to mingle in discussions of all these preachers making these stories on Facebook,
00:59:02and then I would say, like, in a comment, wait a minute, you say this, but the Bible says that,
00:59:08and then you start to, you know, then the character comes, you know,
00:59:17that was back in, um, I think 2013, 14, that's what it started, and, and that's what I started
00:59:27separating, uh, myself from everything Word of Faith churches, but that was all I knew,
00:59:34then I tried, uh, I went a little bit to, um, seven, no, uh, what is it, where they have the Sabbath?
00:59:42Seventh-day Adventists, I think.
00:59:43Or Messianic, I don't know what, but there again, it was like, um, rules, like to eat pork,
00:59:52and Shabbat Shalom, and, and all that kind of thing, it, I think, no, it's, it's another, it's,
01:00:01it's again, rules, it's, it's not, it's, it's not, and in the meantime, just studying the Bible,
01:00:07and really, I, I took out, um, a notebook and a pen, and I would write everything that Jesus said,
01:00:13I would write it down like I was attending class, and pray, Father, please, what is the gospel?
01:00:21What is the gospel? And as I knew for years, yeah, the gospel of Christ, that,
01:00:28there's nothing more to it. Yeah.
01:00:30There's just nothing more to it.
01:00:31I remember the shock that I found whenever I saw, I suddenly started reading the gospel and trying
01:00:38to understand what is the gospel. And when I learned that how simple it is, believe on Jesus,
01:00:44and you can be saved. I was like, why have they added so many complexities to this? Why do they
01:00:50make it so difficult? Why, why is it the carrot on the stick religion? Why do they, why do they even
01:00:55want this? Why would you want to be in this? But it, it was such a shift and a change for me.
01:01:01If you could go back in time to that little girl that's hanging on to the, clinging on to the door
01:01:06of the car and give her some advice and some encouragement, what advice and encouragement
01:01:11would you give yourself? Read the gospel, stick to it, and nothing else.
01:01:18Absolutely. Well, that's good advice. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm certain
01:01:22that everybody's going to be interested to hear this. And, um, I I've, I've been interested and
01:01:27curious to dig deeper onto troop and understand that whole history. So this may be inspiring me
01:01:33to dig deeper and maybe some videos will come out on it. So thank you so much.
01:01:37Right. I'm very, uh, very happy to do this. And, um, yeah, I would love to, uh, talk more with you.
01:01:48Um, even, even, even, uh, in another conversation or a private conversation,
01:01:53because there is much more, much more, and I would really love to talk about it, uh, with somebody.
01:02:03So anytime. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. If you've enjoyed our show and you want to share
01:02:10your story, you can contact us on the web. You can find us at william-branham.org. For more about the
01:02:15dark side of the new apostolic reformation, you can read weaponized religion from Christian
01:02:20Identity to the NAR available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
01:02:25Oh,.
01:02:29Oh,
01:02:33Oh.
01:02:40Oh.
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