- 5 days ago
John invites Laura-Lynn to share her story about discovering hidden links between her former church and the teachings of William Branham. As the conversation unfolds, Laura-Lynn reflects on a powerful moment of realization after learning from an elderly church member that Branham had been connected to their ministry. This leads to a larger discussion about Branham’s relationship with controversial figures like Roy E. Davis and the foundational role Branham played in shaping later charismatic and revivalist movements in Canada and beyond. The discussion also uncovers how spiritual authority was weaponized to enforce control and suppress critical thinking.
The conversation then moves into a deeper examination of specific movements and individuals who promoted questionable teachings and practices. From the Latter Rain revival in North Battleford to the rise of figures within the New Apostolic Reformation, John and Laura-Lynn trace how authoritarian structures, unverifiable miracles, and showmanship have played a role in shaping many modern ministries. They expose how performance tricks, alleged prophecies, and controlling tactics often replaced true spiritual leadership, with significant harm done to individuals and families. Laura-Lynn shares personal experiences of recovery, courage, and her continued effort to uncover truth for the sake of others still impacted.
00:00 Introduction
00:31 Laura discovers Branham’s ties to her church
02:51 Latter Rain revival and Glad Tidings as an epicenter
04:34 Roy Davis, the Ku Klux Klan, and the founding of Jeffersonville church
05:19 Avak Hagopian, the Kardashians, and the launch of Branham’s career
06:05 Sharon Orphanage and strange funding connections
08:43 Pentecostal backlash against Latter Rain extremism
10:46 Franklin Hall and the rogue Assemblies of God states
12:00 Laura’s departure from her church and the shepherding influence
13:40 Canadian apostles, control, and new allegations
15:12 Branham’s failed resurrection claims exposed by journalists
17:16 Isolation, control, and suppression of critical thought
18:02 Ern Baxter, Manifest Sons of God, and the Shepherding Movement
19:06 Joel’s Army and Christian Identity theology
20:33 The Great Pyramid prophecy and end-times obsession
22:55 Branham’s spiritualist roots and Giza symbolism
26:11 False foundations and the myth of a good early Branham
27:17 Zodiac teachings and mysticism in modern churches
28:32 1982 doomsday fears and astrology-based prophecies
29:03 Weaponized religion and the real roots of Branhamism
30:04 Roy Davis, the Mann Act, and spiritualist manipulation
31:48 Mystery cults and authoritarian hierarchy
33:21 Branham’s prayer card gimmick and performance tricks
36:03 Sean Boltz and tech-driven fake prophecy
39:19 James Randi’s exposé of faith healing tricks
41:32 Stage tricks, color cues, and memory-based manipulation
43:03 Paul Cain, phone books, and photographic recall
44:50 The levitating boy and exploitation in revival campaigns
46:
The conversation then moves into a deeper examination of specific movements and individuals who promoted questionable teachings and practices. From the Latter Rain revival in North Battleford to the rise of figures within the New Apostolic Reformation, John and Laura-Lynn trace how authoritarian structures, unverifiable miracles, and showmanship have played a role in shaping many modern ministries. They expose how performance tricks, alleged prophecies, and controlling tactics often replaced true spiritual leadership, with significant harm done to individuals and families. Laura-Lynn shares personal experiences of recovery, courage, and her continued effort to uncover truth for the sake of others still impacted.
00:00 Introduction
00:31 Laura discovers Branham’s ties to her church
02:51 Latter Rain revival and Glad Tidings as an epicenter
04:34 Roy Davis, the Ku Klux Klan, and the founding of Jeffersonville church
05:19 Avak Hagopian, the Kardashians, and the launch of Branham’s career
06:05 Sharon Orphanage and strange funding connections
08:43 Pentecostal backlash against Latter Rain extremism
10:46 Franklin Hall and the rogue Assemblies of God states
12:00 Laura’s departure from her church and the shepherding influence
13:40 Canadian apostles, control, and new allegations
15:12 Branham’s failed resurrection claims exposed by journalists
17:16 Isolation, control, and suppression of critical thought
18:02 Ern Baxter, Manifest Sons of God, and the Shepherding Movement
19:06 Joel’s Army and Christian Identity theology
20:33 The Great Pyramid prophecy and end-times obsession
22:55 Branham’s spiritualist roots and Giza symbolism
26:11 False foundations and the myth of a good early Branham
27:17 Zodiac teachings and mysticism in modern churches
28:32 1982 doomsday fears and astrology-based prophecies
29:03 Weaponized religion and the real roots of Branhamism
30:04 Roy Davis, the Mann Act, and spiritualist manipulation
31:48 Mystery cults and authoritarian hierarchy
33:21 Branham’s prayer card gimmick and performance tricks
36:03 Sean Boltz and tech-driven fake prophecy
39:19 James Randi’s exposé of faith healing tricks
41:32 Stage tricks, color cues, and memory-based manipulation
43:03 Paul Cain, phone books, and photographic recall
44:50 The levitating boy and exploitation in revival campaigns
46:
Category
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LearningTranscript
00:00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:00:41at william-branham.org, and with me I have my very special guest, Laura Lynn Tyler Thompson,
00:00:47the host of Laura Lynn Live.
00:00:50Laura, it's good to have you on and to tell your story.
00:00:53We've been talking back and forth a good bit about your church and its connection to Branhamism,
00:01:00and you discovered this, had me on your show, and there's so many things that, there's so
00:01:05many dots that we can connect that tie us together.
00:01:08It's kind of weird, but I wanted to at least have you on the show to tell your story, and
00:01:13I'm very glad that you came.
00:01:14John, you rocked my world, you know, once I had you on my show, and I was so shocked
00:01:21by the content and what you were saying that I actually couldn't air the interview for a
00:01:28while.
00:01:29And JT and I put it almost on a shelf, that's my husband, and we produce, you know, our
00:01:34podcast.
00:01:34But I put it like, I was, I just, I couldn't fathom it because you had said, oh yeah, you
00:01:41know, William Branham, he'd been associated with our church and been to our church.
00:01:45And I'm like, no, like, I don't even know this name, so this just can't be true.
00:01:51And about two or three weeks ago, I ended up talking to the last known Alive member that
00:02:00I know of, she's now in her 80s, she is Reg Lazell's daughter.
00:02:07And I called her, she's Auntie Marian to me, and I said, do you know the name William Branham?
00:02:15Oh, yes, yes, I do, yes.
00:02:19And so, as we spoke, she said, and now she did not want to say anything bad, but she said,
00:02:26I did hear that some things went sideways, you know, he started out well, but some things,
00:02:31you know, went wrong.
00:02:32I have been told that, but I really don't want to discuss that, dear.
00:02:36And I went, okay.
00:02:37So that's pretty much the only thing I can disclose about this is that she was in 1948
00:02:45with Reg Lazell when he went to Saskatchewan, North Battleford, and she was 10, and she was
00:02:53sleeping underneath the chair.
00:02:55She remembers that, and she remembers it being sort of an odd, you know, there was odd things
00:03:00happening, you know, but the move of God was there.
00:03:04And that's when Reg Lazell got impacted by the latter rain, and then he came back to
00:03:09Vancouver, and you have information about sort of how Glad Tidings was a hub and an epicenter
00:03:17of this movement.
00:03:20It's such a crazy history.
00:03:21I think we could probably do 20, 30 podcasts and not even skim the surface of that history,
00:03:27but what you're describing is they would have been going to really the epicenter for the
00:03:32latter rain revival outburst, because what happened, in a nutshell, William Branham was
00:03:40this no-name minister.
00:03:42He was working with, I think I mentioned this on your show, he was working with the second
00:03:47in command of the 1915 Ku Klux Klan.
00:03:52His mentor's name was Roy E.
00:03:54Davis.
00:03:54This Davis figure was insanely popular.
00:03:59From coast to coast, he was an awful, awful man.
00:04:03I could tell you stories that would just blow your mind, but that's another podcast for another
00:04:08day.
00:04:09But as he's running from all of his sex scandals, he plants the church that became my grandfather's
00:04:14church.
00:04:15And he was trying to get in bed with the Pentecostal movement as the UPC was forming.
00:04:23At the same time, this Iranian faith healer named Avak Hagopian was called to Palm Springs
00:04:32to heal a very rich owner of a vineyard son.
00:04:37And he was sponsored by the Kardashian family.
00:04:41When he came there, it made national news, and this throng of people came to Palm Springs,
00:04:48so much so that there weren't enough hotels, there weren't enough restaurants, they were
00:04:54having to sell, they were bringing in hot dog stands to feed all these people.
00:04:58They were all coming to watch a miracle.
00:05:00And the Kardashian family apparently saw this as a big opportunity, and from that emerged
00:05:09the Full Gospel Businessmen's Fellowship Association, which is another organization
00:05:14we can talk about later.
00:05:16But during that time, they started toying with the idea of sponsoring other evangelists.
00:05:23One of them that they sponsored was William Branham, and it was not long after that.
00:05:29I want to say within maybe two months, Branham goes up into Saskatchewan.
00:05:35He tours Canada.
00:05:37He is riding the wave that was started by this Avak Hagopian figure.
00:05:43It goes all the way from Saskatchewan to Vancouver, and throngs of people were following them.
00:05:51The newspapers, the journalists just could not believe that this volume of people was going
00:05:56from town to town to town through Canada.
00:05:59Wow.
00:06:00And so that is how you know that it came to be, and they, I guess, found North Battleford.
00:06:07We've always wondered, like, I've never really known North Battleford, why that was the place,
00:06:13or did it just, did God begin moving there?
00:06:17Was there anything real about it?
00:06:20What do you think?
00:06:22I have opinions, so I try, in my podcast, I try to separate what is my opinion, what I
00:06:28can't prove, versus what I can historically say.
00:06:33So in my opinion, there's more to the story than anybody is letting on.
00:06:38But what I do know is that this Roy Davis figure goes to Los Angeles, right outside of Los Angeles,
00:06:45and he starts a scheme that would fund the third wave of the Ku Klux Klan.
00:06:51That scheme involved creating an orphanage and getting large donors while posing as federal
00:06:58agents.
00:06:59And he and this famous congressman, which was also tied to this movement, they plant this
00:07:06orphanage and they start setting this thing up.
00:07:09At the same, pretty much the same exact time, Gordon Lindsay, which is the founder of Christ
00:07:16for the Nations, and he was William Branham's campaign manager, he was assigned by the four
00:07:22square, he was a four square minister, Amy Semple McPherson's, he was assigned to the district
00:07:27adjacent to North Battleford's Saskatchewan.
00:07:31And so he would have been in that area of influence.
00:07:37Not long after the orphanage was planted by Davis, Amy Semple McPherson's church sponsored
00:07:43this orphanage in North Battleford called the Sharon Orphanage.
00:07:47And that's really the epicenter where all of this happens.
00:07:50And it gets really weird when you go through the newspapers because I don't even know what
00:07:55you call this thing.
00:07:56They've got airplane hangers.
00:07:58They've got the school and orphanage, training centers, missionaries.
00:08:02It's as though they're setting up some big, massive operation and nobody can tell where
00:08:07the funding is coming from.
00:08:09Charles and I kind of put it together that we found that Amy Semple McPherson was funding
00:08:13operations there.
00:08:15And it seems to be all connected to four square, which as I look at the map of your church,
00:08:21I'm also seeing four square churches in that area.
00:08:24I know them.
00:08:24They're still right here, you know, in Canada.
00:08:29And this is so shocking to me.
00:08:31I love this origins and developments, this thing that you have.
00:08:36I'm going to have to literally go through every box and kind of try to, you know, piece
00:08:42together what happened.
00:08:43But wow.
00:08:45So I have, I had no idea about any of that, that you just said, even if you maybe said
00:08:52it to me, it's actually been so overwhelming that I've had to figure out, you know, what
00:08:58happened.
00:08:58And I realized that the Pentecostal church basically separated, kicked up, kicked Reg
00:09:06Lazell and our church out and anyone who would ascribe to this latter rain movement, you know,
00:09:12as heretics basically, and told them, well, what we understood was told them to stop waving
00:09:18their hands, stop singing like that.
00:09:21Um, and of course it was probably more the other manifestations that were happening, you
00:09:27know, a lot of, uh, some rolling on the floor or, um, you know, things like that, that I
00:09:33heard about.
00:09:34Yeah.
00:09:35There, there was quite a split in Pentecostalism, the assemblies of God.
00:09:40What year was that?
00:09:41I think it was 1949.
00:09:43They basically said that this new order of latter rain is a Christian extremism and heresy
00:09:50and very dangerous.
00:09:52They could see very early that it was creating the ability to enable authoritarian structures
00:09:58within the church.
00:10:00And there wasn't really any governance over this and you can kind of see the mess that
00:10:05evolved from it, but they denounced latter rain.
00:10:09They said, we will not, we will not put up with this.
00:10:12And the assemblies of God churches, but what happened was it had already become so popular
00:10:17that it, it almost drove a wedge right down the middle of it.
00:10:21You had churches that would separate and become this, it split off into the independent assemblies
00:10:29of God led by a W Rasmussen and some others.
00:10:33Well, they chose the Branham side and those who stuck with the assemblies of God, they denounced
00:10:39Branham, they denounced latter rain.
00:10:42There was another figure who I have, I've also seen him touring your church, which was
00:10:47Franklin Hall.
00:10:50So the catalyst that started latter rain was Franklin Hall's fasting doctrine and William
00:10:58Branham's spiritualism doctrine.
00:11:00Those two were the catalysts.
00:11:01Well, they, the assemblies of God denounced it, but where it gets really interesting is
00:11:07there were several districts of the assemblies of God and even states that became rogue states
00:11:15within the assemblies.
00:11:16Indiana, for example, was a rogue state.
00:11:18And the leader of the assemblies of God in Indiana defended Branham on the house floor of the
00:11:25assemblies, trying to, trying to say, this is a movement of God.
00:11:28This is not extremism.
00:11:30But what happened, what, years later, what happened was it did lead into extremism and many
00:11:37people said that Branham had gone astray.
00:11:39So the things that were shocking to me is when I talked to Marian Peterson, which was the daughter
00:11:50of Reg Lazell, and I confirmed, actually, she knew the name.
00:11:56That was the bing that went off where I went, John Collins is telling the truth.
00:12:02He's not confused.
00:12:03He's like, he knows what he's talking about.
00:12:07Oh, my word.
00:12:08And that's when we took the old interview that we did, I think January or something like
00:12:14that of this year that I was so shocked and we aired it.
00:12:19And then, so since then, I've been on this quest and journey to try to figure out, you
00:12:25know, I know that the church that I went to, it was all the same things, not to touch God's
00:12:29anointed.
00:12:30If you left our church, you would be walking out of the grace and mercy of the Lord.
00:12:36You would be walking away from covering and it wasn't right.
00:12:41And I remember hearing that as kids, but I was like, well, where else will we go?
00:12:45Our parents drive us here.
00:12:47So, so it didn't mean anything to me necessarily until later when I was about 21, when the church
00:12:54had a split and I left, I left with the split and I kind of had to consider for a moment.
00:13:00Am I, am I leaving the blessing of God by leaving?
00:13:04But I just had such confirmation in my spirit that I was to go at that time.
00:13:08And I later, now the church came under different leadership and people that were not laddering
00:13:15followers, I suppose, but still maybe shepherding movement now that I think about it, because
00:13:24there was still some of that same thing, you know?
00:13:26So, uh, I just, you know, John, you're, you're awakening the masses, I guess, to the influence
00:13:34of William Branham, how that all came about.
00:13:37But then recently I've been running with a group of people that call themselves the RRA
00:13:43and they're basically NAR, you know, the new apostolic, um, reformation group, and they
00:13:50call themselves apostles and prophets.
00:13:53They operate in this control that thou shalt not touch God's anointed.
00:13:59And I didn't really know that because I would just be invited to speak on their platforms,
00:14:04specifically with one man.
00:14:06His name is, uh, Art Lussier in, uh, in the BC area.
00:14:10And he would have these big events called, um, battle for Canada.
00:14:16And Art Lussier has now recently, uh, been taken to task in the Supreme Court of Canada
00:14:24by two young women claiming that he sexually assaulted them when, when they were young.
00:14:29And, um, there's three others that also, uh, state such they allege these allegations
00:14:36against him.
00:14:38And so he's got his hands full with that.
00:14:40But it was, um, I've had person after person come on my podcast to talk about how you weren't
00:14:47allowed to leave his, uh, churches in, you know, 20 years ago when he started.
00:14:52So I didn't know anything about Art Lussier, uh, or Steve Holmstrom or Mark Brisbois, um, and
00:15:00Barry Maracle who run in this circle in Canada, which is they honor William Branham.
00:15:06And they're like, oh yeah, because he had all these dead people, you know, rise from
00:15:11the dead.
00:15:12But I, I went back and looked and maybe you could even help me with this question.
00:15:18Um, how many dead people do they attribute to him rising?
00:15:21Because I saw one story and basically it never lined up.
00:15:25The family said, no, he was never in a morgue and he didn't die.
00:15:28There's so much to unpack with everything that you've just said, but the bottom line
00:15:32for the, um, you know, for the raising of the dead, the problem was what Branham was trying
00:15:39to establish was the notion that he had the power to do what the apostles of the Old Testament
00:15:45could do.
00:15:45And the way that he presented it, if you read the Bible and he has that same level of authority
00:15:52over the demons, then he should be able to raise a person from the dead.
00:15:57I'm certain that this came up into conversations, well, why can't you do this?
00:16:01So then he claims that he did.
00:16:03And he says, you can write back home to Jeffersonville, Indiana.
00:16:06You can ask.
00:16:07He was laying in the morgue.
00:16:10And I believed it.
00:16:12I heard him say that I believe that he did this years later when I started this research,
00:16:17I found where there were, when he was touring through Canada, he was making these boisterous
00:16:22claims.
00:16:24And what happens is word of mouth because he said it and because they're not critically
00:16:29thinking about what he says, they go tell other people and other people tell other people,
00:16:34well, this guy can raise people from the dead.
00:16:36But the journalists who were trying to understand this movement as it was emerging contacted,
00:16:45took him at his word.
00:16:46They contacted Jeffersonville, found out that, no, there is no such story like this.
00:16:52They went so far as they actually identified the very person that he claimed was raised from
00:16:56the dead.
00:16:57And the family said, well, he never really died.
00:16:59And so the whole story was kind of made up.
00:17:03And then you can also find, I think I have it on my website, you can find articles where
00:17:07the Branhamites are trying to defend this locally because this caused a stir in Jeffersonville.
00:17:13If he's lying in Canada, well, now you've got people in Jeffersonville that are waking up
00:17:19and asking questions.
00:17:19So there's this big level of suppression that happens.
00:17:25And like you said, when you leave the movement, the problem is when somebody leaves, they're
00:17:30critically thinking.
00:17:31And when they're critically thinking, they'll tell other people their critical thoughts.
00:17:35So there's this real agenda to cut people off once they leave because their critical thinking
00:17:43might cause other people to leave.
00:17:45It's all about control.
00:17:48And that control, so you mentioned the shepherding movement and the New Apostolic Reformation.
00:17:55We'll get into this a bit further, but when I pull up the map, like you said, it's like
00:18:00this epicenter, this weird epicenter in Vancouver.
00:18:04Your church is about, it's less than 10 miles from Earn Baxter's church.
00:18:10Baxter was one of William Branham's campaign partners and toured in the Baxter-Branham
00:18:15campaigns.
00:18:17Baxter went on to become his campaign manager.
00:18:21And then later, he helped found the shepherding movement, which you're aware of.
00:18:26So Baxter's involved with this.
00:18:29Baxter's secretary basically packaged William Branham's manifested sons of God doctrine into
00:18:40a book called The Feast of Tabernacles, and this became primary learning for places like
00:18:47International House of Prayer in Kansas City, where Branhamites like Paul Cain were working
00:18:53with Mike Bickle and established this organization that heavily, heavily influenced the New Apostolic
00:18:59Reformation.
00:19:00So there's this weird, I was talking to somebody just yesterday, I said it's like this weird
00:19:06spider verse that all trails lead back to William Branham.
00:19:10And that is what's shocking to me, having grown up hearing, you know, the manifest sons of
00:19:16God, Joel's army, you know, latter rain, and that we're the last generation.
00:19:25And I was talking to my good friend this morning, Everett Gagnon, and he is from Ohio for Freedom
00:19:32podcast.
00:19:32And he really, really wants to talk to you.
00:19:36And he says, could you ask John, because I told him I was going to be on with you, could
00:19:41you ask John, like, isn't there sort of a connection with these cult-like groups?
00:19:47They all think they're the final, our last day generation.
00:19:53And Lazell, they would say this, you know, the last days, and a lot of talk about hell and
00:19:58all of that, but like, Reg Leisel died several decades ago now, you know, I remember.
00:20:05And so his daughter, you know, I know her still, I mean, she's in her 80s now, and she's
00:20:12precious, but we all did grow up in all of this.
00:20:16And so they, so Everett was basically wanting to know, like, Jim Jones, when you talk about
00:20:23Jim Jones being connected, well, you know, everyone's happy the day before they actually
00:20:30drink the Kool-Aid and die.
00:20:31There's a video of them all saying, yeah, we're the happiest we've ever been.
00:20:35Like, this is great.
00:20:36This isn't a cult.
00:20:37And they died the next day, you know?
00:20:40You know, it's a different time and a different era.
00:20:43I talk about it some in my latest book, Weaponized Religion, from Christian Identity to the NAR.
00:20:49But there was this weird belief set that was emerging right before World War II, that the
00:20:58people of the British Isles and the United States and Canada were the descendants of the
00:21:03lost 10 tribes of Israel, and that the serpent from the Garden of Eden had mated with Eve
00:21:11to produce a lesser form of human.
00:21:15And that was spreading throughout the United States.
00:21:17William Branham called it Serpent Seed, but it's basically called the Two-Seed Doctrine
00:21:23of Christian Identity.
00:21:25And the Joel's Army notion was in opposition to the evil seed.
00:21:31We have an army that's taking over the United States and Canada of the false Jews, they would
00:21:36call them.
00:21:38Well, we need an army of our own.
00:21:39So the prophet Joel described our army.
00:21:42That's kind of how this mentality went.
00:21:44But I talk about it some in the book.
00:21:48I don't know that it's worth a full conversation here, but the things that they believed were
00:21:52insane, and they were teaching them in churches.
00:21:55One of them was the notion that the Great Pyramid of Giza was actually not a tomb for Khufu, but
00:22:05instead was a Bible of sorts written to the end-of-days people.
00:22:11And that the passage leading down to the king's chamber, every imperfection in that pathway as
00:22:19you go down, marked a significant milestone in world history.
00:22:23And as you're going down the chamber, and you hit a bump, and that might be the – one of
00:22:30the examples that they used was the Great Depression was this bump, and we see the Great
00:22:35Recession before this, and now we see World War I right here.
00:22:40We're not very far from the end of that passage, so we're about to enter into the end of days.
00:22:46And this was being taught in churches.
00:22:49They would actually bring – I found newspaper articles where they're bringing actual, like,
00:22:53statues of the pyramid, and they could pull it apart, and they could show people in churches
00:22:59how we're at the end.
00:23:00This is almost over.
00:23:02And so this was widespread.
00:23:04It wasn't just Branham that was doing this weird thing, but because it was such a weird
00:23:09popular notion, and because now we're seeing World War I, which was supposed to be the
00:23:16World War II, end all wars, didn't, now we see World War II coming.
00:23:21And as that didn't settle everything, they're starting to say, well, World War III is going
00:23:26to be the end.
00:23:27And they're preaching that in churches.
00:23:29They're preaching the weird pyramid thing, and they're saying that we have all the signs
00:23:34necessary to see that this is the end of the world.
00:23:37So people that ascribe to these things, they pick up these terms like Joel's army, and that
00:23:44was used 20 years ago in Kitimat, British Columbia, with a group of kids who ended up being under
00:23:51the leadership, again, of this gentleman that I've already mentioned.
00:23:55And this whole group is quite upset with me because I'm, like, speaking up on what we're
00:24:05finding out.
00:24:06And I'm telling the truth like John Collins is telling the truth, and I'm the one getting
00:24:11in trouble.
00:24:11So I can only imagine the kind of backlash you've had when you begin to go, wait a second, like,
00:24:18this is all crazy stuff.
00:24:20It's been a little crazy.
00:24:22I have had, I won't go too deep into the types of attacks, but they have technologically
00:24:28attacked my servers and equipment.
00:24:31I've had equipment stolen.
00:24:33I've had hard drives stolen.
00:24:35They do not want the information out.
00:24:37And so when I built my website, I did not use any of the normal, like, WordPress or anything
00:24:43like this.
00:24:44It is actually a very highly sophisticated technology simply to ward off all of the attacks to keep
00:24:51it up.
00:24:52The problem is each individual church doesn't pose much of a threat.
00:24:58But combined, you have all of these churches now, which are part of the apostolic networks
00:25:06within the NAR.
00:25:08All of these churches are built on this foundation that I am certain beyond the shadow of a doubt
00:25:14many leaders know and are fully aware that it is a false foundation.
00:25:18Everything about it was parts of fiction or parts of heresy, parts of spiritualism.
00:25:24We could talk for hours on just the weird spiritualist craze that hit the nation right as this thing
00:25:32was emerging, and they adopted ideas from the spiritualist craze to put into the latter
00:25:37reign.
00:25:39So people who've read the Bible, if you read the Bible, things like tied to that pyramid
00:25:46doctrine was also the notion that before the pyramid was the Bible, before that was the
00:25:52zodiac as the Bible, which leads you into all kinds of weird spiritual notions when you
00:25:59think of that, anybody who's read the Bible knows that you're not supposed to worship the
00:26:04stars or anything of stone.
00:26:08But this movement had that false foundation.
00:26:11Leaders who are aware of it, the way that they're getting around it is that they're saying
00:26:16that in his later years, William Branham went astray, so don't listen to him.
00:26:22But if you really critically think about what they're saying, that implies and suggests that
00:26:28for a period of time, what he said was correct and biblical and scriptural, therefore we've
00:26:34built our foundation upon it.
00:26:35But you find that it's built on the Klan, on Christian identity, on spiritualism, on
00:26:41heresy, on many, many things that we have uncovered with regards to false prophecy or failed
00:26:49prophecy, things like the raising from the dead that you mentioned, outright lies just
00:26:56to attract the people.
00:26:57That's the foundation that they're saying was the good foundation before he went astray.
00:27:01And they don't like to listen to you.
00:27:04Like if you say, well, that was actually proven to be a false report by even the family of
00:27:10the man who was claimed to be raised from the dead.
00:27:15And then people don't like that and they get mad and then it's like, thou shalt not touch
00:27:20God's anointed.
00:27:22And this Zodiac stuff, so the people, the fellow that I've been speaking about, you know, I
00:27:30recently was attending his church and then, and then, you know, allegations have come
00:27:35forward of, of these, these young women, but he has had teachings on this Zodiac stuff
00:27:43or like, it's like, there's a whole new era of bringing like witchcraft forward and it's
00:27:52getting bad in all kinds of different denominations.
00:27:55Um, like with Bethel, we can see that they've opened the door to new age and things like
00:28:00that.
00:28:00But, um, I don't personally remember this stuff.
00:28:05I do remember that our pastor Marine Gilardi scared us all and said in 1982, I think, or
00:28:12something like that, there was going to be a certain amount of alignment of the stars.
00:28:16So we had this teaching going on for a while that maybe this was it, that Jesus was returning
00:28:21because the signs in the heavens were that everything was aligning, you know?
00:28:27So, uh, you know, we're still here now.
00:28:31I, you know, I just don't know what to think about all of that, but I guess, like you say,
00:28:36um, Branham had certain things that he would teach.
00:28:42And then they say he went astray later, but they're trying to say that he was all okay
00:28:47in the beginning.
00:28:47And actually it, it appears to be quite the fraud and linked with his, his buddies who
00:28:54support, you know, the Nazis or whatever, like this, the Klan.
00:28:58I mean, this is so disturbing.
00:29:01Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern
00:29:06Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign charismatic and other fringe movements
00:29:12into the new apostolic reformation?
00:29:14You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website,
00:29:19william-branham.org.
00:29:22On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles
00:29:27Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others with links to the paper, audio, and
00:29:34digital versions of each book.
00:29:35You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those
00:29:41movements.
00:29:43If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute
00:29:48button at the top.
00:29:49And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're
00:29:54listening to or watching.
00:29:55On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.
00:30:00We could talk for 30 podcasts and not even skim the surface of this, but as I mentioned, when
00:30:06Branham's mentor, Roy Davis, came and planted what became My Grandfather's Church, he was
00:30:13running from the law for many different reasons, everything from theft to swindling.
00:30:18But the biggest thing was he was taking young girls across state lines for the purposes of
00:30:24sex, which is a violation of the Mann Act.
00:30:26So, when he came to Jeffersonville, he had crossed from Louisville, Kentucky, crossed the Ohio
00:30:32River.
00:30:33He was literally running from the Mann Act, which is why he came to Jeffersonville.
00:30:40But his platform for revival, which they held a revival, he claimed that he was a converted
00:30:47spiritualist.
00:30:48And so, he was trying to expose the spiritualist movement, which was very, very popular during
00:30:54that time.
00:30:55Sir Arthur Conan Doyle actually came to the United States to hold seances instead of writing
00:31:01Sherlock Holmes.
00:31:02That's how popular this was.
00:31:05Well, when he comes to Jeffersonville, he gets arrested off the platform and they take
00:31:09him back to Louisville because he had violated the Mann Act with sexual contact with children.
00:31:15And what he planted and that spiritualist connection started something very weird.
00:31:23In the state of Indiana, there was a spiritualist camp that was called Camp Chesterfield, and it
00:31:29was very popular during the spiritualist craze.
00:31:32We have evidence that strongly suggests that Branham attended that camp because he describes
00:31:38an event that was only held at that camp.
00:31:40So, he comes back from the spiritualist camp and he, like Davis, sees the opportunity to
00:31:50appeal to the itching ears by claiming that he has this special insight of what the spiritualists
00:31:55do and how to rightly divide his version of spiritualism with the pagan version of spiritualism.
00:32:01And what this essentially forms, if you understand the concept, what Branham was creating was very
00:32:08similar to the ancient mystery cults.
00:32:11I have a divine mystery, and only those who are in my inner fold who are aware of this mystery
00:32:16has this divine knowledge.
00:32:19And so, therefore, we are different from all other Christians.
00:32:23We're elite.
00:32:24We're the chosen ones.
00:32:26We have the special knowledge.
00:32:28That was the early years.
00:32:30After a period of time, when he starts bringing in this – he reinvented the five-fold ministry
00:32:39doctrine as a pyramid scheme.
00:32:42So, there were levels and tiers of the authoritarian control, but the rank-and-file members were not
00:32:48equals.
00:32:49It was authoritarian structure where at the very top was an apostle or a prophet, all the way
00:32:53down to rank-and-file.
00:32:54He brings that notion in, and so the rank-and-file members can't question any of the spiritual
00:33:02aspects that were anti-biblical.
00:33:06And it was clearly anti-biblical what he was doing.
00:33:08So, it created this – it basically created a cult structure, and that structure and methodology
00:33:16spread throughout the entire movement.
00:33:18You find weird mystery.
00:33:21I had somebody write me just last week, I think it was.
00:33:25They said that their apostle and their church had prophesied, written it down on a piece of
00:33:31paper and put it into an envelope, but anybody who reads what's in that envelope will die.
00:33:37So, you're left with the question, well, if God's giving a prophecy for you to hear,
00:33:41how are you going to hear it if you don't open up the envelope?
00:33:44And that, interestingly, was very common among these mystery cults.
00:33:50They don't want you to know if the prophecy is nonsense or even if it fails.
00:33:55They don't want the rank-and-file members to understand the gimmicks that they're using
00:34:01for their spiritualist craze.
00:34:03Wow, wow, wow.
00:34:05You know, it just brings me back to some of the things that would – like, once in a while,
00:34:10we'd have demonic manifestations that would happen in the church, you know?
00:34:13Um, and, um, so the, uh, Maureen Gilardi would be casting out the demons and she said
00:34:21she had a special gift, um, certain things, uh, like when – okay, there was two things.
00:34:29First of all, she said if she's casting out the demon, we had to close our eyes,
00:34:33otherwise it would enter us.
00:34:35And so I remember later, you know, just trying to think through all that because,
00:34:39you know, we'd all have our eyes super closed.
00:34:40Oh, no, I hope the demon doesn't come into me.
00:34:42Um, and, uh, you know, trying to figure out what biblical passage that would actually
00:34:47be confirmed, you know, necessarily by.
00:34:51And then the other thing was when she'd have words of knowledge, she said she had a certain
00:34:54thing come over her and she couldn't tell what it was because just like Samson lost his
00:34:58gift when, when he, when he told what his gift was, he lost his gift.
00:35:04You know, he told the girl Delilah about his hair and then he, you know, he ended up dying
00:35:09from that.
00:35:10So she says she couldn't, uh, tell us that, you know, like different things that were so
00:35:14mystical, right?
00:35:15Like everyone was held in such high regard.
00:35:18We were very fearful of the leaders.
00:35:21And you talked earlier about the authoritarianism that came in and that that's what the Pentecostals
00:35:26kind of said.
00:35:27You can see how this is going to lead to people being elitist.
00:35:30And now I, I, I totally can see that, but I grew up in that.
00:35:35So that was normal that they are the great, uh, people that know everything at the front
00:35:41and we have to do, you know, what they say and get worried about 1982.
00:35:47If they say to get worried about it or all kinds of end day stuff, you know, it was all
00:35:52about that.
00:35:52You know, even still today, in fact, this happened a couple of Sundays back, I enter
00:35:59into a church and they're in prayer and I look at the minister and the assistant pastor
00:36:04and their heads are bowed in respect to God and their eyes are open.
00:36:10And I'm just, I feel like out of sorts, this, this is not right.
00:36:14You have to close your eyes.
00:36:15One of the things this movement brought was you can't open your eyes and you can't see
00:36:21what's happening.
00:36:22If you do, the devil's going to get you.
00:36:25I remember being raised as a kid, you could not open your eyes during a prayer because
00:36:29the devil might get you.
00:36:31And that was one of the doctrines that they had.
00:36:33I have somewhere in my archives of video, I have a video where, see, they did this divine
00:36:42healing trick on stage and it wasn't just Branham.
00:36:47Many of them were doing it.
00:36:48Branham's gimmick was he would have all of his ushers pass out what was called a prayer
00:36:53card.
00:36:54And if you, if your prayer card was called, you went up to the stage and they were called
00:36:58in order by that card.
00:37:00And he would guess your name and your address, which just happened to be written on the card
00:37:05that they gave the usher.
00:37:07And that was part of the gimmick.
00:37:09Well, there were times whenever he would guess the name and address without having called
00:37:15a card.
00:37:16But I have a vid, one of the few videos that remains of Branham where his son is walking
00:37:22up and slipping things in his pocket and it's happening during a prayer.
00:37:26So I'm starting to piece all this together.
00:37:29Wait a minute.
00:37:30If everybody has to have their eyes closed, which there's no scripture to support that,
00:37:34that I've found whatsoever.
00:37:35If they have to have their eyes closed, you're not going to see the guy slipping him a paper
00:37:40on the platform.
00:37:43See, this is the early Sean Boltz gig, right?
00:37:47Recently, Sean Boltz is outed because he's getting his information, birth dates, names,
00:37:55special information off of Facebook.
00:37:58And he's down there at Bethel.
00:38:01And you've got Bill Johnson touting him as like one of the most powerful prophets they
00:38:07have ever seen because the guy can just read your mail like crazy.
00:38:12And then it all comes out.
00:38:14Yeah, there he's calling guys out because they know they have a list of people at the event
00:38:20and then they look at their Facebook and they get their birth dates and they get all this
00:38:25information on them and give them words.
00:38:27And he destroyed one guy's life who's recently been interviewed because he gets a word from
00:38:34Sean Boltz.
00:38:34He's supposed to complete this media project, create a film.
00:38:39But in his mind, he had actually laid it to rest and thought that the Lord had told him
00:38:43not to do the film, but because it was on his Facebook, Sean Boltz picks up this information
00:38:49and then relays it out to him that he is to do it.
00:38:55And so what are you going to do if the prophet of God tells you to do that?
00:38:58He invests his life savings.
00:39:00He invests his friends money and others who wanted to invest in it.
00:39:04Well, of course, it goes sour because it never was God.
00:39:09But this is the power of false prophecy.
00:39:11So what Branham was doing, this is horrible.
00:39:15This is like exactly what they're doing in modern day with technology.
00:39:21There was a book that somebody gave me.
00:39:23And I'll be honest, the first time that I received the book, I was a little hesitant
00:39:28and scared to read it because we were also programmed that if you read something by somebody
00:39:35who's not of the same spiritual mindset as you or who is atheist, that you're going to
00:39:41catch a demon.
00:39:41And so I actually did not read it for probably two or three years.
00:39:45But somebody finally convinced me to read this book by James Randi called The Faith Healers.
00:39:51And James Randi, if you're unfamiliar with him, was a magician who also during right after
00:39:57the spiritualist craze noticed that there were the sudden influx of all of these faith
00:40:02healers.
00:40:02And they're all doing stage tricks.
00:40:04And he, as a magician, knows how the tricks work.
00:40:09So he goes from revival to revival.
00:40:12And he's documenting what ended up to be this book, The Faith Healers.
00:40:17Here's what this guy did.
00:40:19Here's how he did it.
00:40:20This is exactly how I would have done it in my meetings and in my stage act.
00:40:25And he goes through and he just outs them all.
00:40:28And it starts from very, very simple things that you just would not think of because as
00:40:35a person who's not expecting to be deceived by a minister on a platform, you're not looking
00:40:41to critically think in the same way as if you were sitting in a magician show trying to
00:40:46figure out how the magician did it.
00:40:47So he's just explaining common techniques, common sense.
00:40:52And I'm reading it thinking, oh, my gosh, man, this is not right.
00:40:56How are they doing this?
00:40:57He mentioned Branham in that book.
00:40:59But he goes on to try to remember the guy's name, but Peter Popoff.
00:41:05One of the last ones he did was Peter Popoff, who's got the device in his ear.
00:41:11But if you understand how I call them parlor tricks, if you understand how the simplest
00:41:16of tricks work, those tricks can deceive many, many people.
00:41:22And there are environmental things or abilities that people have that can augment that trick.
00:41:30For example, after we left, this is a side story, but it's kind of funny.
00:41:35After we left the movement, we were caught up in this weird world where everything was
00:41:40angels and demons.
00:41:42If you stumped your toe walking down the street, it was because a demon had tripped you.
00:41:45Well, I met with some people who had left the Branham movement.
00:41:51And we were talking.
00:41:52And I said, it was just such an evil place.
00:41:55My son's picked up black magic.
00:41:57And they said, really?
00:41:58And I said, yeah.
00:41:59And I said, come here.
00:42:00And I've called my son over.
00:42:01And I said, my son can pick out anything in this room.
00:42:05You just pick an object, and he'll tell you exactly what it was.
00:42:08I sent my son in the other room, and they told me the object where he obviously couldn't hear.
00:42:14And I said, is it this object?
00:42:15Is it this object?
00:42:16Is it the next one?
00:42:17And my son said, yes, that's it.
00:42:19He got it right every time.
00:42:21Well, it was black magic.
00:42:23What I would do is I would say, I would point to a yellow object, a white object, a black object.
00:42:29Every time after the black object, it would be their object.
00:42:32So even though he's not hearing it, they're thinking he's got a gift.
00:42:37Well, these guys were doing similar tricks.
00:42:40I noticed that Branham, remember he has all these ushers, and they're giving him papers.
00:42:45And he would always go off script, and he would say, now I'm going to go beyond the prayer card.
00:42:51You in the yellow shirt, you have such and such.
00:42:54You in the purple hat.
00:42:56And he's naming off associating colors with the people and their conditions.
00:43:00And I started to realize that's a memorization technique.
00:43:05You just have to know the lady with the polka dot purple sweater, right?
00:43:10But then it got even weirder because I started studying memory techniques.
00:43:17And I started to realize that in his ministries, as he would go town to town, he would pretend to forget things.
00:43:24For example, he claimed to have prophesied Marilyn Monroe's death and got it wrong, which is a funny story.
00:43:32But he would go to one town and say, what was that lady's name, Marilyn, and he would fumble the word, go to the next town, pretend the same fumble, go to a third town, pretend the same, you continue over and over, suggesting that his memory was better than he was letting on.
00:43:50Here's where it gets interesting and the point I'm building up to.
00:43:54I have had conversations with Paul Cain, who was one of the Kansas City Fellowship, started the International House of Prayer.
00:44:02He was Branham's proxy to Germany, Branham's protege.
00:44:07And I've had conversations with the people that were close with Cain.
00:44:10And one time he was apparently, allegedly, caught in his hotel room reading through phone books.
00:44:18And he had stacks of phone books.
00:44:20And they said, why are you doing that?
00:44:22And he said, I'm just reading the phone books.
00:44:26Well, he's doing the same tricks that Branham's doing with the names and numbers in his meetings.
00:44:30And I started to realize he probably had a photographic memory, which if you're sitting in the audience and you're thinking spiritual, you're never thinking photographic memory.
00:44:42No, absolutely not.
00:44:43And then Branham had this, he had this kid, right, that would levitate or something like that.
00:44:50And, you know, when I was reading about that, I was kind of curious.
00:44:55So, you know, obviously something, they were doing something weird.
00:44:59It's a crazy, crazy time.
00:45:01Like I said, the spiritualist craze caught on.
00:45:05And the sad part of it is the ministers appeared to want to appeal to the itching ears.
00:45:10So rather than go attend the spiritualist camp, instead come to our ministry and we've got a levitating boy.
00:45:17But it's also a sad story.
00:45:20Not many people are aware of this.
00:45:22The Branham campaigns, which at that time was ran by a man by the name of Raymond Hoekstra, who was closely tied to the formation of the UPCI, they actually owned that child.
00:45:37They bought rights from the child, from the parents, and the parents actually had to sue to get their child back.
00:45:43And they were claiming neglect and overwork.
00:45:46But it's a horrific, horrific thing.
00:45:50But what happened was they got the child.
00:45:53The child claimed that he had spent seven minutes, I think it was, in heaven.
00:45:58And he would tell his, I went to heaven story while levitating.
00:46:02And then Branham would come and do his prayer card trick.
00:46:06That whole thing of just using people and deception and like what kind of whacked craziness is this.
00:46:14And, you know, one of the things like in our church that the outfall of it that we didn't really realize, but it was just the sexual crazy too.
00:46:24And I'm not certain if that showed up in Branham's lifetime, like, or his season of being at the helm of this, or if that just infiltrated.
00:46:40But definitely there's just been, you know, the whole movement has been racked with stories and painful things about, you know, molestations and things like this.
00:46:53Yeah, it's awful and sad at the same time.
00:46:56With Branham, it wasn't the same way.
00:46:58There were several men who were homosexual who were in Branham's campaign team.
00:47:03And even organizers of the big revivals were.
00:47:08And so the accusations for Branham was that he was having homosexual affairs.
00:47:12And Branham actually admits that he was accused of this on recording.
00:47:16But, like you said, it seems to be a pattern.
00:47:20You see from Branhamism, you see all these splinter groups, and there are groups in Africa, Branhamite groups, who they were teaching what's basically spiritual husbandry.
00:47:33And the minister was claiming all of the husband's duties with the wives in the church, got caught because he was filming it, and he went to prison because of that.
00:47:45But it's just – it's horrible when you think of all of these things that are done in the name of religion.
00:47:51You can't say that that's limited to Branhamism.
00:47:55There are all kinds of – Catholic Church, for example, have huge problems.
00:47:59But also, I am aware of Baptist Church, they have the same problem, Methodist Church.
00:48:04It exists everywhere.
00:48:06The difference is, when you're in these types of destructive groups, there is a strong push to conceal it.
00:48:15Right now, in Arizona, there is a Branhamite sect.
00:48:19It's called Golden Dawn.
00:48:21And the minister has covered up the abuse of minor – sexual abuse and rape, I guess, of minors for years.
00:48:28And he is now charged with covering it up.
00:48:33And the way that his church was structured, you could not talk about it.
00:48:37You could not question it.
00:48:38If you leave, you can't make contact with the family, and they cannot contact you.
00:48:43So there's this level of control that goes beyond what humans should ever, ever do.
00:48:49So, John, like, this is so difficult, because I guess this spirit of homosexuality then.
00:48:57So what happened was Reg Lazell turned the church over to Maureen Ghilardi.
00:49:02She eventually, after many years, there was rumors, because she did look like a lesbian to some.
00:49:11Now, I never thought of it until somebody pointed it out, because we were kids, and she was the pastor, unmarried.
00:49:17But the leader, we feared her.
00:49:20She was definitely manlike in that her authority and the fear factor.
00:49:25She was a power monger.
00:49:27And so the whole church would just, like, rise to attention and give her a standing ovation at different times, right?
00:49:36So the big shock of all shocks, when we get to church, you know, the morning Black Sunday, basically, we all call it, when we're told in 1982 that she has been found to have the sin of Romans 1.
00:49:49And the whole church just begins mourning, because it was such a shock, because she was hailed as such a massive, powerful woman of God.
00:50:00Well, she'd been followed, I guess, and to Hawaii, where finally someone, one of the board members hired a private eye, tired of all the rumors and innuendo.
00:50:12And they hired someone, and they caught her, and they got film and, you know, pictures of her, obviously, with someone.
00:50:21And then what we didn't know until about 10, 12, 13 years ago was that her brother, Ray Gilardi, was molesting boy after boy after boy in our church.
00:50:37So in looking back, it was said that there were rumors, and people would report it or something, but then it was just completely covered up, or that family left, or no one was allowed to talk about it, because you dare not go against Ray Gilardi.
00:50:54Well, then he goes on to other ministries and places, and apparently several different places, he's just molested all the boys.
00:51:04Now, he's married, and his wife always defending him, and she was a lovely, beautiful person, actually, and she must have just thought this wouldn't, couldn't possibly be true.
00:51:16So now he's in jail, and I think he's in his 80s, but that spirit of homosexuality and that, you know, my friends were harmed.
00:51:26And I didn't know until 12 years ago.
00:51:30So, like, it's been so disturbing to look at the outfall and the fruit of this work.
00:51:36And it's really odd when you think about it, because while the movement was really strongly condemning homosexuals and homosexuality, many of the leaders were openly homosexual.
00:51:49Right.
00:51:50I mentioned – so you mentioned the Nazi connection, which I think we talked about on your podcast, but it also ties to Paul Cain to some extent.
00:51:59When Branham went to Germany, he was sponsored by the Baron Freire T. von Blumberg.
00:52:05This man was connected to the Fellowship Foundation, which is known as the family.
00:52:10They hold the National Prayer Breakfasts and are influencing politicians.
00:52:15He was on the board of directors of Bob Jones University.
00:52:20He was Branham's campaign manager, as well as several others.
00:52:24And the men who went on the campaigns openly knew that he was homosexual.
00:52:30In fact, he was calling escorts into his room to the extent that there are now declassified documents where the government was watching him
00:52:38because he set up similar organizations in other countries like the Fellowship.
00:52:43He and apparently Branham were doing this, where they're also influencing the other nations.
00:52:50So they're wondering, is this guy a spy?
00:52:52He's an adopted German baron, and he was the adopted cousin of Wernher von Blumberg, which is Hitler's minister of defense.
00:53:03So is he tied to this?
00:53:05We don't know.
00:53:06But while they're over there, something happens, and it happens in the hotel room.
00:53:11Paul Cain is there, who, as you know, was also exposed later as homosexual.
00:53:17I think I mentioned this on your podcast.
00:53:21Paul Schaefer was also there.
00:53:23He was the head of security.
00:53:25Schaefer goes to Chile and sets up a compound where he's helping Nazis escape into Argentina.
00:53:32Well, underneath all of this, he is molesting young boys.
00:53:37So you have this group of men who apparently something happened, and they got caught in Germany to the extent Branham was never allowed back.
00:53:46And any time there was a Branham request for Germany, Paul Cain went in his stead, according to what Paul Cain told me on the phone.
00:53:53So this weird thing happened.
00:53:56There was homosexuality involved, but it was levels above that because they were preying on people.
00:54:03It wasn't just that they had the attraction.
00:54:06They were actually predators.
00:54:07Unbelievable.
00:54:08And this is definitely exactly what my personal church experienced and then what we've heard at different places.
00:54:17And we're still seeing the outfall of this now, that predators, the allegations being made currently to this pastor from Kelowna.
00:54:28I've talked to the girls, and so it's not homosexual things, nothing like that so far has emerged, but it's underaged people.
00:54:41Just the predatory manner, and then you wonder, like, how can you all be Christians, you know?
00:54:50And I think this is the hard part.
00:54:52I was saying on my broadcast yesterday, how can Sean Bolts with any, like, who is he on the inside to think that it was so cool to deceive the world on the Internet by pretending to have information on people, you know?
00:55:07And that's certainly far less brutal than molesting tons of people, but these people are sociopaths.
00:55:15Like, it's a culture of narcissism allowed to grow and to have a harvest.
00:55:22It's so disturbing to me.
00:55:24And then there's people like me and you raised in this that we basically, we have to find and figure out what is the truth in the midst of all of these lies.
00:55:35And I think that's the journey God's got us all on.
00:55:38Well, I think the big thing to understand is that people really aren't educated in the history, and the history is important when you're thinking about the mistakes of the current.
00:55:49If they're repeating the mistakes of the past, if we're looking at, so the Seven Mountains Mandate, for example, people are shocked that this dominionism threat is coming to the United States.
00:56:02But if they would look back in history, they would find that the very people that I'm talking about within the Klan who influenced Branham, they had established what was called the Supreme Kingdom.
00:56:14And they were saying, we need to take back control of the government.
00:56:18We need to take back control of education.
00:56:21We need to take control of the entertainment industry.
00:56:24They were doing all of these things.
00:56:26History is repeating itself, but the bad actors who set all of this up, it's their histories that are repeating because the common people are unaware that they're doing this.
00:56:37They're trying to influence this in this wrong way.
00:56:41And the sad part about all of this is they're doing it in the name of religion, so people, unfortunately, who haven't really read their Bibles, they're hearing these things that ministers say, and they're thinking it's actually in the Bible.
00:56:54This is a biblical thing they're doing, when in many cases it's really anti-biblical.
00:56:59So there's, like I said at the beginning of this, there's a thousand different things we could talk about.
00:57:05I can think of 30 different podcasts just from the things that we've talked about in this one.
00:57:11Would you be interested in doing more and talking through some of that history?
00:57:15I would like to, because that's what's changed everything for me, is an understanding that is pretty pivotal.
00:57:20It helps you to understand why some things didn't make sense, why some things went so, so wrong, how there was an element of learning about the power of the Holy Spirit, but then there were these teachings that now we kind of go, not exactly biblical, I don't know, and it wasn't questioned.
00:57:40And learning all of that helps us to be more clear about what we accept moving forward.
00:57:46And God seems to be doing something where he's empowering the sheep to be warriors.
00:57:51He's empowering us to be reliant on him alone, not these great leaders, like gone are the days where we're going to exalt man.
00:57:59And this whole apostolic movement that is really about removing, like once again, pointing to man, we follow this apostle, we follow this prophet, and they turn out to be disappointments.
00:58:11And then we're disappointed in God when God is just saying, just, you know, be my sheep, hear my voice, follow the good shepherd, and forget all this other stuff that man tried to make it about.
00:58:22And I'm concerned that there's been a lot of bad actors, as you just said, sociopaths, you know, narcissists that have harnessed the power of people's love for God, and used it to exalt themselves, and to do terrible things in the name of that.
00:58:43And so we have to expose it so that our next generation, there's a pure and spotless bride waiting for him to return.
00:58:51And, you know, I've loved this, John, I would gladly come back, I would like to know more and more about this.
00:58:56And I want to share your podcast out because I know that my whole group that comes from Glad Tidings, we're, we're having an awakening.
00:59:05And, you know, it's sad, but it's necessary.
00:59:10And I just appreciate you.
00:59:12I appreciate that you have been so courageous and bold.
00:59:16And it's, it's been costly to you in order to do that.
00:59:21You know, it's been costly for your life, but you've done it.
00:59:24And so I'm grateful you're, you're not a coward.
00:59:28So you're not going to hell.
00:59:29Now, cowards are the first ones on the list to hell in Revelations, not, not the murderers and liars, although the lake of fire will be able to handle all of that.
00:59:41But you're, you're very courageous.
00:59:44And I thank you for that.
00:59:45Well, thank you.
00:59:46And if anybody out of Glad Tidings wants to share their story on the podcast, there's an open invitation.
00:59:51Just contact me on the website and you can share your story.
00:59:55So thank you so much for doing this.
00:59:56Yeah, you're welcome, John.
00:59:58It's been a real pleasure.
01:00:00Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web.
01:00:04You can find us at william-branham.org.
01:00:06For more about the dark side of the new apostolic reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.
01:00:14Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.