Skip to player
Skip to main content
Skip to footer
Search
Connect
Watch fullscreen
Like
Comments
Bookmark
Share
Add to Playlist
Report
German Chancellor Friedrich Merz braves Oval Office MAGA test
FRANCE 24 English
Follow
6/5/2025
Visit our website:
http://www.france24.com
Like us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/France24_en
Category
🗞
News
Transcript
Display full video transcript
00:00
The German Chancellor is due in the White House later today, Frederick Merz, set to meet Donald
00:04
Trump in the Oval Office. But questions are swirling over what kind of reception
00:08
Chancellor will get. This after recent uncomfortable exchanges between Trump and
00:14
South Africa's President and even Canada's Prime Minister. Plus, who can forget that
00:18
test exchange between the U.S. Vice President, Donald Trump, and Ukraine's Vladimir Zelensky.
00:24
Trade, NATO, and support for Ukraine expected to top the agenda. For more on what we can expect,
00:31
we can go across to Christine Bertzin, Managing Director, Geostrategy North, at the German
00:37
Marshall Fund of the United States. Thank you so much for joining us here on the program today.
00:41
Now, Germany's new Chancellor is set to walk into the Oval Office, which has become a sort of lion's
00:45
den, if you will, even for the United States' top allies. What, according to you, will be topping
00:52
the agenda for Merz? Is it going to be trade? Is it going to be NATO? What is it?
00:57
Both of those issues are going to be at the top of the agenda. And the question is whether they're
01:02
going to be seen as two sides of the same coin or separate issues. First and foremost, Merz is here
01:08
to get to know Trump, and Trump will be here to get to know Merz. The German and American relationship
01:14
in the Trump administration the first time around was in hot water, and Trump always has very tough
01:20
language about Germany. He feels that Germany has freeloaded or taken advantage of the American
01:27
security umbrella, and that German industry is trying to out-compete American industry. So there
01:34
are defense and economic concerns. But unlike Chancellor Merkel, the last time Trump was president,
01:43
Chancellor Merz is a businessman. He is somebody who comes from a world that is not all that different
01:48
from the world that Trump comes from. And so the question is, do they get along personally? Is Trump
01:54
willing to say, it looks like Germany is moving in the right direction? The recent defense announcements
01:59
are certainly a way of showing a new Germany. But a trade conversation is going to be difficult.
02:06
And July 9th, we have the anticipation, if it's not delayed again, of course, of high tariffs coming in.
02:13
So you will have a tariff conversation, but I don't think we are past a point of contention over.
02:19
And a defense conversation, that should be able to go pretty well. What the entire combination of that
02:25
is, and what the tone of the meeting will be, is the big question, and that we're going to have to
02:30
see at the end of the day. Because Germany is the EU's largest economy. We know that as Merz is in town,
02:38
Washington is trying to negotiate with the European Union to strike a free trade agreement. But how does Merz
02:45
go about explaining to the US president that the EU is not there to screw the US, but in fact, was created to
02:51
prevent war on this continent?
02:55
If I was Merz in that room, I wouldn't try to re-prosecute history. I wouldn't try to approach this in a
03:03
didactic or in a school teacher manner at all. I think that is going to lead to failure. Instead,
03:09
I'd look at the future. What is Europe trying to achieve in its economy? But more importantly,
03:14
what is America trying to achieve? How does it get more competitive? How does it outcompete China,
03:20
which in many ways is the primary objective that Trump has? And if Europe can be part of that solution,
03:26
if Europe and the United States together can build something that Trump wants,
03:30
that's a good place to have a conversation. That's a reason not to impose high tariffs,
03:35
but instead to reduce trade barriers. If Merz is able to create a conversation in which Trump
03:42
thinks it's a good deal for the US, that is a primary objective. Trying to lecture is just going
03:50
to result in failure.
03:51
Interesting point. But you never know if Donald Trump does pull out things like he did for the
03:55
South African president and does a little show and tell in the Oval Office. Now, one of the first
04:00
things that the Trump administration did when it returned to power was dispatch J.D. Vance to
04:06
Munich. His speech at the Munich Security Conference left this continent stunned, if you will.
04:14
And it exposed deep rifts when it came to things like free speech versus far-right extremism here in
04:21
Europe. How will Merz handle whatever Trump throws at him on this front?
04:26
It's an interesting question whether Trump is going to be bringing up some of these values
04:32
questions. The issue of free speech, the issue of restriction on what can be said online, the issue
04:38
of access for more far-right parties to traditional political fora. This was especially notable as a
04:45
conversation topic during the Munich Security Conference because it was before the elections. And Vice
04:52
President Vance is far more tied to these kinds of issues than Trump himself is. Will right now this
05:02
kind of values issue come up because we are not in a pre-election time anymore? I am not sure. And would
05:10
President Trump himself use this forum in the Oval Office to talk about values and speech rather than
05:17
business trade deals or defense just a few weeks before the NATO summit? Again, that doesn't seem
05:24
to me to be at the top of the priority. Of course, it is possible that there will be remarks about
05:30
Germany's lacking access or depriving certain political parties from access. But I do not foresee
05:39
that being the main point or the main event of today's Oval Office interactions. There is a difference
05:47
between the various corners of this administration. And I think that that combined agenda for what can
05:54
be done next is something that Trump should be willing to focus on. Well, he may have some good
06:00
news on the defense front because earlier today, Christine, stay with us. We had the U.S. Defense
06:05
Secretary who was attending that NATO defense ministers meeting. And he said that the military alliance
06:10
was close to consensus on achieving that 5% target down the line. Take a listen to what he had to say.
06:16
This alliance, we believe in a matter of weeks, will be committing to 5%, 3.5% in hard military
06:23
and 1.5% in infrastructure and defense related activities. That combination constitutes a real
06:30
commitment. And we think every country can step up. So Christine, let me bring you in once again. So if
06:36
Chancellor Mertz can show Washington that, look, we're willing to up our military, our commitments
06:44
to military spending, that could potentially be a win for him. But another thing that has happened
06:50
since in the past few weeks is that the AFD, the far right party in Germany, has been labeled an
06:57
extremist organization. This is something that members of the Trump administration have openly
07:02
said they have been critical over. How does Mertz go about telling Donald Trump,
07:07
this is our business, stay out of it, without schooling him?
07:14
Schooling him again is the major risk. I think pointing to the successes that Germany is having
07:19
and showing the path that Germany will take to try to develop a deeper and more competitive global
07:27
economic relationship and also a deeper defense relationship with Germany taking over a far
07:33
greater share of responsibility in Europe should be the focus. I think that it will be very hard to
07:39
have a conversation about the AFD because the perception of the party is very different on both sides of the
07:47
Atlantic. Will Trump want to see more of the AFD line come to the center in politics in Germany? That's
07:56
certainly is possible. And so what would be smarter for Chancellor Merkel to talk about are more of
08:05
the issues that the AFD is focused on. And to say that he probably is curious, interested in solving
08:11
them too, which is of course what the CDU and the government is doing. The AFD came in at the high
08:19
numbers that it did in this past election because of its focus on migration as one of the issues. And of
08:24
course, the government and Chancellor Meretz has been focusing more on this in a far tougher line than
08:32
others have. And so showing progress on the issues and going away from a discussion of the parties
08:38
themselves would be to Germany's benefit and to Meretz's benefit. Now, the war in Ukraine is also expected
08:45
to feature this, of course, comes a day after we had the US president who held a phone call with Russia's
08:52
Vladimir Putin, who suggested that Moscow is going to respond. He said it was a good conversation, but
09:00
it will not lead to, but not one that is going to lead to immediate peace in Ukraine. Washington has made
09:07
it quite clear that it's tired of its role in trying to strike a peace deal between these two sides,
09:14
which it doesn't look like it's going to bear any fruit and has essentially passed the buck
09:19
to Ukraine and Russia to figure it out. What happens if the US stops its military support to Ukraine?
09:27
Will Meretz try and say, look, Europe can foot the bill and do this by itself?
09:32
Meretz is already showing leadership on Ukraine. This is from the very first days of taking office,
09:40
traveling to Kyiv, to hosting Zelensky in Berlin, to the increase in defense spending. These are clear
09:48
signals how significant the issue of Ukraine is for Germany. This is also something that the Trump
09:55
administration would like to see. What's not clear at all is what it would mean for the United States to
10:00
be done with Ukraine? Of course, we hear this sharp rhetoric, but does that mean that the United
10:07
States is done being the chief negotiator? Is the United States done providing the support that has
10:13
already been paid for or that Ukraine is paying for on the market for its own defenses? Is this a
10:18
question of intel sharing, which is incredibly important? None of that is clear in Washington.
10:24
And so Germany showing leadership, showing where it can step up and being part of a conversation
10:32
on the US contributing where the US is essential is an important piece of what should be happening in
10:39
the Oval Office today. That is, it is a tricky situation. I feel that this is a harder conversation
10:46
to have than a conversation on NATO. From a European perspective, Ukraine is integral to European security
10:53
conversations. From the Washington side, Ukraine is one thing and NATO is another. And so as we just
10:59
heard from Secretary Hegseth and the happiness that there is in this administration going into the NATO
11:06
summit, that same happiness probably does not extend to the Ukraine conversation. And the Europeans are
11:15
going to have to balance the progress they're making on the 5%, doing everything right on defense,
11:21
with also ambition on Ukraine. And to try to navigate how to make sure that to show that they are
11:30
taking responsibility, taking leadership on providing defense and assistance to Ukraine, while also
11:37
showing that there is a role for the United States that the United States should be providing.
11:42
Okay, it'll be an interesting meeting in the Oval Office in a couple of hours. Christine,
11:47
Bertine, we're going to have to leave with that. Thank you so much for joining us on the program today.
Recommended
8:28
|
Up next
Transatlantic diplomacy: 'Meloni walking a tightrope between Europe and the US'
FRANCE 24 English
4/18/2025
14:30
'Unprecedented': First time since WWII that German parliament needs support of far right to pass a law
FRANCE 24 English
1/31/2025
9:38
Canada's Carney meets with European allies as Trump targets his country's sovereignty and economy
FRANCE 24 English
3/17/2025
7:33
200 Lawsuits in 100 Days: Trump’s presidency fuelled by 'revenge'
FRANCE 24 English
5/1/2025
6:59
A tale of 'two far-right leaders': Meloni and Trump's relationship with democracy in the 'grey zone'
FRANCE 24 English
4/18/2025
11:24
The King’s Speech: In a Fractured World, Charles Voices Solidarity with Canadians Facing Global Uncertainty
FRANCE 24 English
5/28/2025
13:07
Science at a crossroads: Europe positions Itself as the gateway to global research
FRANCE 24 English
5/5/2025
12:35
'Germany is going to see tough times so it's very important to get the economy back on track'
FRANCE 24 English
4/10/2025
13:53
German party leaders Scholz, Merz 'pleased with results', seeking to shape policy, engage electorate
FRANCE 24 English
12/16/2024
6:22
Trump's 'war' on science and environmental policy will 'delay inevitable transition and cost lives'
FRANCE 24 English
5/5/2025
5:31
Trump's MAGA trade war: 'A stupid, self-inflicted, period in human history'
FRANCE 24 English
4/11/2025
7:28
As tariffs loom in Trump's 2nd term, EU must 'deepen single market, have a competitiveness strategy'
FRANCE 24 English
11/8/2024
8:40
US economy 'remarkable' ahead of election, Trump's tariff proposal a 'real risk to the whole world'
FRANCE 24 English
11/1/2024
9:03
'AfD becoming strong in German Parliament: Increasingly difficult to form coalitions excluding them'
FRANCE 24 English
2/11/2025
5:33
UN food, refugee agencies face massive cuts following demise of USAID and billions in funding losses
FRANCE 24 English
4/30/2025
17:10
'Nothing more sacred in the US than right to criticise, disagree and challenge govt in court'
FRANCE 24 English
4/30/2025
6:29
'Germany's definitely going to be a part of the coalition of the willing'
FRANCE 24 English
3/31/2025
10:20
Trump wielding tariffs 'indiscriminately as a weapon for geopolitical predominance'
FRANCE 24 English
3/13/2025
3:06
'Unwanted visit: You can hardly welcome the US VP with open arms' amid Trump's threats of annexation
FRANCE 24 English
3/28/2025
9:01
USAID $40bn budget frozen: Int'l aid by UN agencies, NGO's, public/private sector severely impacted
FRANCE 24 English
2/4/2025
6:39
Amnesty International vows to keep up Russia right work despite ban
FRANCE 24 English
5/20/2025
5:39
Trump pursues 'very Draconian measures, amplifying the authority of the presidency over immigration'
FRANCE 24 English
2/19/2025
4:57
Trump rings in Gilded Age & McKinley era, tapping into 'Manifest Destiny view of American expansion'
FRANCE 24 English
1/20/2025
6:46
Musk calls Trump's big tax break bill a 'disgusting abomination,' testing his influence over the GOP
FRANCE 24 English
6/4/2025
6:33
Ukraine says Russia is 'the main barrier to peace', shows no signs of de-escalation on battlefield
FRANCE 24 English
5/15/2025