A tale of 'two far-right leaders': Meloni and Trump's relationship with democracy in the 'grey zone'

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00:00Well, let's talk about what's at stake here with Laura Montecchio.

00:03She's a doctoral researcher at King's College, London.

00:07Laura, thanks so much for joining us on the programme.

00:10So we know Maloney is going to Washington to get some clarity,

00:13first and foremost, on what exactly President Trump wants.

00:17Is she likely to get that?

00:20That's a very good question, because for sure she will either try to placate Trump

00:27to gain leverage and boost her standing within the EU,

00:32especially thanks to her alignment with Trump's agenda and politics.

00:37Or she could also fully side with him, which could be quite dangerous,

00:43let's say, in terms of her relationship with Brussels.

00:46Well, tell us a little bit about what Trump exactly wants here.

00:50I mean, EU trade negotiators say they still don't know what the US's demands are.

00:54Do you have any idea on what those are?

00:59I don't think I know better than that, because it's with this America first,

01:06Trump's approach is stepping away from the traditional multilateral order,

01:11while the EU is very much funded on this multilateralism.

01:15And so the EU is more trying to strike a balance between defending its interests

01:21and also keeping a door open to dialogue and compromise.

01:26Maybe Trump here, I think, is still trying to show his interest for the EU,

01:32because probably he knows that he cannot completely put the EU on the side,

01:37but trying to do it probably from an ideological perspective with Maloney.

01:42Now, Maloney is obviously going to Washington on her own.

01:47It does beg the question, is she acting solely in Italy's interests or the EU as a whole?

01:54No, I think she is trying, in a way, she's trying to do both,

01:58because she wants to display her growing and key influence on the international stage.

02:04But I also think she wants to pave the way for dialogue with von der Leyen.

02:09So I would say both, definitely.

02:11Well, Maloney has been described as the chosen one, supposed to speak,

02:15because she is one of the few European leaders who still has a close relationship with Trump.

02:21Talk to us about the rapport the two share, not only on a social level, but also an ideological one.

02:28Ideologically, they're quite close,

02:29although I would say that Trump is much more going on the extreme side of the far right,

02:36while I would say that Maloney has considerably moderated her approach.

02:41I would say that that is more because Maloney operates within the EU.

02:46So not only from an international perspective, but, you know, internationally, she cannot really do whatever she wants.

02:54She has to respond to Brussels and Brussels demands, while Trump is in a slightly different position.

03:01And so he's definitely gone in a much more extreme way,

03:06especially in the way that the language that he uses and the policies that he has been promoting.

03:12But at the same time, they are two far right leaders and their relationship with democracy is somehow in a gray zone.

03:21Although I would say that Maloney supports much more democratic principles than Trump is showing at the moment.

03:30We've also had reports that Maloney is said to have had very clear conversations with Ursula von der Leyen,

03:35the EU Commission president, ahead of this meeting in Washington to discuss some sort of game plan.

03:41What were the two likely to have said to each other, do you think?

03:44I would say that they're trying to find a compromise with the U.S.

03:53At the same time, it is sure that it has been quite a rude awakening for EU members in terms of its relationship with the U.S.,

04:05not only in terms for the tariffs, but also in terms of security.

04:09So now the EU is quite aware that it cannot and should not rely on the U.S. for its security.

04:17So probably Maloney and von der Leyen are talking about this and trying to find a compromise,

04:22but at the same time, maybe trying to find a way to develop themselves as EU force in terms of defending themselves

04:33and finding other ways to sustain themselves.

04:37Well, Laura, let's talk about the trade war, because the EU is trying to now forge closer ties with China

04:43as this tit-for-tat continues with Washington.

04:45But Maloney does share the same sort of suspicion that the U.S. has for China, doesn't she?

04:51She sees it as a strategic rival of the West.

04:53Yes, and it's quite interesting, because I insist really on the fact that I think EU wants to keep the door open for dialogue and compromise.

05:07But also, we're not seeing such a firm discourse that, for example, we have seen with Canada,

05:20which basically they said that the relationship with the U.S. is over.

05:25So I think China is a bit in the middle here, and I'm not really sure how they intend to continue with that,

05:33but the U.S. and the EU at the same time really have to play quite strategically with China right now.

05:43Well, the other big news of the day is the fact that the U.S.'s top diplomat, Marco Rubio,

05:47is in Paris to speak to European leaders about the war in Ukraine.

05:52Will that also be a topic during this meeting between Georgia Maloney and Donald Trump today, do you think?

05:58I would say so, definitely, because the choice of France is an accidental with Macron,

06:04who has been positioning himself as a key European leader.

06:08And as I was saying before, I think Maloney is trying to do the same on the international level.

06:13But we know that Macron has really tried to position himself in terms of Ukraine and the Middle East.

06:20Well, I would say that Maloney has tried to align a bit more, as I was saying before,

06:25in terms of ideology and agenda, trying to find compromises with Trump, especially with the tariffs.

06:31So I would say that here the meeting in France is quite significant.

06:37And it shows, again, that the U.S. wants to keep the door open to the EU.

06:43And this could be quite significant and important for Maloney and for the Lion as well to consider.

06:52Laura, great to talk to you. Thank you so much for giving us your analysis today on Around the World.

06:56Thank you. Thank you for having me.

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