USAID $40bn budget frozen: Int'l aid by UN agencies, NGO's, public/private sector severely impacted

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00:00Well, to discuss further, let's bring in Professor Paul Spiegel, Director of the Johns Hopkins

00:06Centre for Humanitarian Health.

00:09Thank you so much, Professor, for being with us on the programme.

00:12Firstly, tell us if you could, what exactly is the agency's annual budget and where has

00:18this funding been going to exactly?

00:21Sure, thank you for having me.

00:23The annual budget, as your correspondent said, is about $40 billion.

00:28While that's an enormous amount of money, it's less than 1% of the overall federal budget.

00:34It varies, it goes to approximately 130 countries and it goes towards health, towards education,

00:42towards governance and it supports many governments, including Ukraine, for example, as well as

00:50humanitarian assistance across the world.

00:53And what is going to happen to the NGOs that have been relying on this funding?

00:57Are they going to be able to survive without it?

01:01Without the funding, many NGOs either will not survive or they're going to have to dramatically

01:06reduce what they're doing.

01:08You know, this comes, it's not, this is not in a vacuum.

01:11So at the first day in office, the administration said they were going to stop funding WHO,

01:17the World Health Organization.

01:19And then they have put a 90-day stop on all foreign assistance, with now some exceptions.

01:26And so already we're seeing a huge amount of fallout.

01:30Well, of course, it's very important to think about the NGOs and UN agencies that are going

01:36to be severely affected by this.

01:39We really need to focus on the affected populations.

01:42And there are so many people around the world that already likely have died because of this,

01:47the 90-day stop, because of something as simple as anti-malarial vaccines, anti-malarial medications,

01:54to some of the longer term issues in terms of humanitarian assistance in places like

02:00Sudan, Ethiopia, Democratic Republic of Congo, etc.

02:05Is there any way to replace this funding?

02:08No.

02:10There is really no government, this is, you know, USAID is a government funded agency.

02:17The only other, so it's by far, the U.S. government is by far the largest donor overall

02:24in terms of foreign assistance.

02:26And in the past, when the U.S. government has had shortfalls or when the Trump administration

02:31previously stopped funding certain UN agencies or NGOs, other high income countries, particularly

02:38in Europe, tried to provide funding to address the shortfall.

02:44But that's not going to happen right now for a variety of reasons.

02:47It's just far too much money.

02:49And we're seeing similar concerning issues in Europe as well in terms of populism, anti-refugee,

02:54anti-migration sentiment and reductions in foreign assistance within Europe as well.

03:01And as our correspondent was saying, this could all very well end up in the courts.

03:05Is what's happening even legal?

03:07The agency was created and funded by Congress.

03:10So can an agency, a federal agency like this, be unilaterally closed as seems to be happening?

03:18Well, number one is I'm a physician professor, not a legal legalist, so I'm not going to

03:24answer that.

03:25My understanding is that certainly this will be this will be challenged in the courts.

03:31But there are a lot of questions still that remain.

03:33For example, many other countries, including the U.K. and Canada, have moved their humanitarian

03:40and development assistance arms under the equivalent of their foreign affairs or in

03:45this case, State Department.

03:47So that has been happening over time.

03:51The big question I think that we all have is what will USAID still exist clearly?

03:56Well, it may not exist in its current form.

03:59Will it move under the State Department?

04:01What level of funding will be available?

04:05And because this government, as frankly all other governments, use foreign assistance

04:09to promote their foreign policy.

04:12And given that this administration has said very clearly that all funding must be in America's

04:20best interest.

04:21The question is how will they interpret that and what will that mean for the many countries

04:26around the world where life and death are dependent upon this aid?

04:29And also the agency was initially set up to counter Soviet influence, among other reasons.

04:36You say China and Russia may step in to fill the gap here.

04:41Yes, so there are a lot of different reasons why foreign aid is so important.

04:46Of course, it does promote government policies, but there's a mixture of hard and soft power.

04:53And America, by being the largest donor of foreign assistance, the soft power has been

04:59very, very important over the years to America's benefit by either abolishing or reducing or

05:07making this completely subservient to certain aspects of government policy.

05:13It's going to clearly have a vacuum.

05:15And some countries, I mean, I don't think that Russia is going to be in a position financially

05:20to be able to do, to be able to take over what the U.S. is doing.

05:24But in theory, China could consider to at least ramp up.

05:28And they're going to benefit at America's expense in terms of their power and influence

05:33around the world.

05:34And Professor, you've also said that the impact for the agency could be felt for decades.

05:40If it does close, is it possible that it will never be reopened?

05:46Hard to know.

05:47I mean, firstly, you know, it's very, it may be administrative dependent.

05:52So let's see what happens.

05:54It's hard to know.

05:55But certainly once you close an agency, it can be very difficult to reestablish an agency.

06:01And in terms of the effects of decades, the USAID provides immediate life-saving humanitarian

06:08assistance, but it goes across the gambit, including for research, including many American

06:13universities that are, for example, working on malaria vaccines, working on different

06:18types of research that can have positive, cost-effective solutions that will save hundreds

06:25of thousands, millions of lives in the future.

06:27But if that funding is cut as well, it's going to have both immediate and then longer

06:32term, very negative effects.

06:34And this also has an impact on the thousands of people who work for the agency as well.

06:38You point out many of them have already made a lot of sacrifices.

06:41Yes.

06:42Yes.

06:43I mean, again, we care most about those who are, you know, vulnerable and affected across

06:49the globe.

06:50But this will have a very, very large knock-on effect, both of U.S. government employees,

06:55but USAID has tens of thousands of contractors, private sector that rely on funding from USAID.

07:04So we're talking $40 billion.

07:06This is a lot of money.

07:09And it will have a very negative effect, both on those that have spent years, likely they

07:16could have gone to the private sector and make much more money, but they spent years

07:19working within the U.S. government to try to help people's lives.

07:24They will be negatively affected, NGOs, U.N. agencies and even the private sector will

07:29be negatively affected.

07:31And the agency, it might have been bracing for a move of this kind, judging by what was

07:35being said by the Trump administration, but perhaps not at the speed that it's come into force.

07:42Were you surprised to see staff being told to stay away from the building?

07:47It's shuttering overnight, essentially, over the weekend also.

07:51Yeah, we're getting to the point where perhaps nothing is surprising anymore.

07:55However, I agree that everything is moving so quickly and obviously the courts and others

08:03are not able to react in a very quick manner because there are so many executive orders

08:09coming across the board.

08:12You know, the idea of shuttering the agency, we haven't discussed, but the website now

08:17is no longer available.

08:18A much smaller version, a very limited amount of projects are now on the State Department's website.

08:25Marco Rubio says he's now the acting, the Secretary of State says he's now the acting

08:30director of USAID.

08:32So the speed with which this is happening and the unpredictability is very problematic.

08:38Fres, we'll have to leave it there for now.

08:40We do really appreciate you speaking with us on the program, though.

08:43Professor Paul Spiegel, director of the Johns Hopkins Centre for Humanitarian Health.

08:49Thank you so much.

08:50Well, that's it from us for now.

08:52Do stay with us, though.

08:53We'll be back shortly with more World News.

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