- 4/17/2025
Copyright Webinar
Category
😹
FunTranscript
00:02:29I registered originally for Wednesday morning, and now I'm joining this one. I just want to make sure it's dutely noted that I'm attending this one.
00:02:39Dutely noted.
00:02:40Okay.
00:02:40I didn't get like a summary of attendance, so.
00:02:45But I didn't register, though. It just said join meeting in progress because I just clicked on it just now.
00:02:49Okay. I got you.
00:02:51Okay. Thanks.
00:02:53This will be recorded, too, so you're good.
00:02:54Okay.
00:02:55All right. Thanks.
00:03:01Hi. Mark is here. Just joined in.
00:03:04Hi. Lou, I'm going to take back hostability really quickly.
00:03:12Okay.
00:03:13I'll take it back to you.
00:03:14All right.
00:03:24Okay.
00:03:24Okay, so if everybody will go ahead and mute yourself so that when Lou is giving his presentation, we won't hear any background noise.
00:03:41Like I said, this is being recorded, so I think we're going to put it on Beasley Academy so that if you need a refresher, you'll be able to watch it.
00:03:50So that being said, the slides that Lou is going to go through today, I will send at the end of the training.
00:03:58I just wanted everybody to pay attention while he's talking, so just, you know, keep that in mind.
00:04:06Lou, I'm going to give you back.
00:04:08Okay.
00:04:16Okay, so I think we're going to start.
00:04:18I'm not a person that likes to wait for people.
00:04:20We're late.
00:04:23So we've had a lot of questions regarding copyrights and what, like, what things we can do, what we can post, what we can't post.
00:04:32So we thought it'd be a prudent activity to have you guys sit through a copyright training.
00:04:38Lou Levy is an attorney at Lerwin Center, and he is our copyright guru, so he's going to handle the training and go through all the slides.
00:04:47And if you have questions, you can write your question into the chat if you want, and he plans to address any questions that you guys have.
00:04:55So, Lou, go ahead.
00:04:57Okay.
00:04:57Hi, good morning, everybody.
00:04:59Thanks for signing on.
00:05:05Jamie said we just had to deal with certain copyright issues, you know, getting a demand letter from here.
00:05:11What can we do?
00:05:11What we can't do?
00:05:12So we wanted to go and give you a presentation.
00:05:15And what this is is really a primer.
00:05:17I want to give you an overview of what's sort of involved with copyright and then go over a couple of the pressing issues and then address at the end of the presentation some myths about copyright that people have, like, you know, whether there's a 30-second rule for using music and things like that or film.
00:05:34And I think that will be useful for you, I hope, if not, you know, please feel free to chime in and do ask any questions.
00:05:41I'd like to make this as active and relevant.
00:05:44We're going to have a Q&A once I'm done.
00:05:46I'll try not to belabor this too much and simply read from my slides so you guys can stay awake and all of that.
00:05:52So, just moving ahead, if, there we go, what kind of content are we talking about?
00:06:01Copyright is very broad.
00:06:02You know, we're talking about video, audio, music, blogs, articles and text, podcasts.
00:06:07It covers everything.
00:06:09It covers stock photos, graphics.
00:06:12You know, we've had some, I've had to answer some emails about the NCAA bracket, what you can do, what you can't do.
00:06:17So, it covers a lot of things and it pays to be, you know, without being overcautious, and I really don't want to be overcautious in any of the advice that I give.
00:06:27It also pays to bear in mind that just getting into a scrap with someone is, A, distracting, and B, can cost you money.
00:06:35And so, even if you're right, you know, to get there and to get a court to say, yes, you're right, you didn't infringe, it will still cost you, you know, tens of thousands of dollars.
00:06:43So, one wonders, why bother?
00:06:47And so, I wanted to make sure you understood the scope of what's protected.
00:06:52And also, it goes to advertising material, it goes to logos, it goes to audio and video recordings, content from social media platforms.
00:07:03User-generated content is a really big issue.
00:07:06You know, what's on your, if you have a website and your websites have, you know, space for people to post on, which I know a lot of you do.
00:07:14What do you have to do if someone says, if someone says, by posting that you've infringed my content, are you compliant with the DMCA, with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act?
00:07:25Do you have, you know, is everything registered, which I think for Beasley, everything is.
00:07:28But there is a safe harbor for you, but you have to be mindful of that and mindful of your obligations under that to protect yourself from some user who posts something on your website that infringes somebody else's work.
00:07:43And how is the content used?
00:07:47Well, you know, it's used everywhere.
00:07:49It's ubiquitous.
00:07:50I mean, we live in such a media-centric age that, you know, from everything from broadcasting to website news to entertainment, editorials, just artwork, graphics, promotions.
00:08:01I was just dealing with someone yesterday where someone was using an image of a, you know, image of a dog they found on the web.
00:08:08And the graphics company who you hire and you assume is going to do the right thing often doesn't or they don't, they're not cautious enough about the images that they find.
00:08:17And so they'll just pick something out of the, off of the internet and they'll think it's cool without realizing it's someone else's work.
00:08:23And it could lead to a problem.
00:08:25And this is just on the micro level as well as on the macro level.
00:08:28It's not just that you're going to, you know, make some, you know, paramount pictures angry.
00:08:33It's that you might make, you know, Joe Smith in Kearney, New Jersey angry because you used a photo of his.
00:08:41And you have to be very careful and mindful of these things.
00:08:45You know, again, you know, what's protected and the legal issues, you know, the original works of authorship.
00:08:51It covers books and magazines, musical compositions, you know, TV scripts, plays, radio scripts, pictures, again, motion pictures, sound recordings, covers the whole gamut.
00:09:03You know this.
00:09:04And I don't want to, you know, beat you over the head with it.
00:09:09Now, one thing that you have to understand what the copyright owner, what rights does the copyright owner have?
00:09:16The law gives him the right to, you know, prevent copying, distribution, also, excuse me, I'm sorry, I'm a little hoarse.
00:09:28The also gives him the right to create derivative works.
00:09:32You know, if you create a work based on something else.
00:09:35The case that always leaps to mind here is a case of a woman wrote a story based on Gone with the Wind.
00:09:47It was a novel called The Wind Done Gone.
00:09:49And, of course, the author's estate of the original work sued her for creating an unauthorized derivative work.
00:09:57Well, she had to go all the way to the Supreme Court.
00:09:59The Supreme Court eventually ruled in her favor, but she created a work that was, you know, that was sort of told from the same story told from the slave's perspective.
00:10:11And it was a big case.
00:10:17And I suspect she was represented pro bono by a lot of people.
00:10:22But the bottom line is the law gives you the right to prevent someone from creating a work based on what your work.
00:10:30Do they take elements from it?
00:10:32And you can't just take an idea.
00:10:34You know, it's different than taking an idea and doing something that's sort of based on an idea.
00:10:38It's if you've taken some works and taken some snippets from it and then used it for your own work.
00:10:44That's very different.
00:10:45You know, there are two different things and you have to be mindful of it.
00:10:49And also, you know, for sound recordings, you know, to perform the work and through a digital audio transmissions, that's protected.
00:10:57And for radio stations, of course, that's a big deal.
00:11:00You have licenses for that ASCAP BMI.
00:11:02You have your sound exchange licenses.
00:11:04But that's all protected.
00:11:06One question that we get all the time is what's a fair use?
00:11:13You know, and people, you know, people think, well, I'm just using a little bit of it or, you know, they're making fun of it.
00:11:20It's a parody or something.
00:11:21And is that a fair use?
00:11:22And that's and I'll discuss parody in a few slides later.
00:11:26But it really it's really important that you understand how the law, how the statute defines fair use.
00:11:34And, you know, they they ask for questions, really.
00:11:38They go they ask, well, what's the purpose and character of the use?
00:11:42Was it commercial?
00:11:43Was it nonprofit?
00:11:44Was it educational?
00:11:45Was it transformational?
00:11:46Which is transformative is actually the proper word there, which is, you know, would affect the analysis.
00:11:54What's the nature of the work that was infringed?
00:11:57You know, was it was it something, you know, purely pure?
00:12:02Was it something purely non-commercial, for instance?
00:12:05Was it just a very insignificant portion of a larger work or was it, you know, the major the entire the entire entire work of a of a commercially, you know, in a monetized of a monetized work?
00:12:20Also, they ask how much of the work was infringed if you have a 60 minute movie and someone's used a minute of it.
00:12:26Well, is that an infringement?
00:12:27Is it not an infringement?
00:12:28Again, there's not an easy answer.
00:12:30It's not like, oh, well, only 30 seconds.
00:12:32OK, that's not the case.
00:12:34It has to do with what was in that 30 seconds.
00:12:36And there's a case I'll discuss in a little bit which which goes to that.
00:12:40And then also, you know, the effect on the potential market.
00:12:44If you're using somebody's work, you know, are you using the way that deprives them of revenue?
00:12:48And depriving them of a license fee is affecting their market.
00:12:52So and I dealt with this, you know, just in cases where you've used the work and you've essentially deprived an owner of the license fee.
00:13:03And there was just to digress slightly, but there was a case regarding Agence France-Presse and Getty in the Washington Post where the photographer had taken pictures of an earthquake in Haiti.
00:13:16And the Washington Post had taken the photo from Getty.
00:13:22They thought it was under license, but they had not didn't have the permission that they thought they had.
00:13:27The the photographer wrote them a letter saying, please acknowledge, please give me a credit and you're free to use it.
00:13:34Well, the Post had never got to the right office, so no one ever responded.
00:13:38Nothing ever happened. And he ended up suing and the Post had to pay a lot of money.
00:13:43So, you know, it was just again, it's a question of, you know, what would the effect of the on potential market?
00:13:50He lost a license fee and the court made them pay for it.
00:13:53Um, and it's also when you're using, you know, using work and even if it's part of a critical review or, you know, we always think criticism is fair use and that's fine, but it has to be, you can only use as much of the material as necessary.
00:14:08Again, if you're doing a critique of a, you know, a radio of a new record album or a new recording, you can't play the whole song.
00:14:16You know, you maybe you can play a snippet of it, but you can't play the whole song.
00:14:20You can't play the whole album if you're doing a critique of a new album or a television show.
00:14:25You can't show the whole new film and then offer a few few minutes of criticism after the end of it.
00:14:29That's just way, way too much. You're going beyond the pale.
00:14:33So you need to, you know, you just need to be mindful of that.
00:14:37There is a doctorate and this is it's it's called transformative use.
00:14:43It goes to the purpose and character of the use, but when you change the nature or character of the original work or if you've created something that really changes the character of the original work, it would be regarded as transformative and then subject to the other other factors, of course, then it becomes a fair use.
00:15:01The case that everyone always talks to me here is the Campbell, the Ake of Rose.
00:15:05This was a case where they did a essentially what was a parody of a song called Little Woman, the Roy Orbison to Little Woman.
00:15:15And but they did it sort of in a hip hop, you know, in a hip hop style.
00:15:20And it was pretty, you know, it was pretty, pretty profane.
00:15:24Ultimately, it was pretty it was pretty.
00:15:26But it was way, you know, very different from the original work.
00:15:29And it said a lot about it also spoke to the nature of the original work and the world that was addressing and contemporary realities.
00:15:38And the court had to went all the way up to the Supreme Court.
00:15:41And the court, of course, found in favor that it was a transformative fair use.
00:15:45But it took him a long way to get there.
00:15:48But that was that's sort of the case, the poster child for transformative uses.
00:15:53And again, you know, they weigh all the factors in.
00:15:55And if, you know, if it's fair, even if it's transformative, if it doesn't weigh up against the other factors I discussed, if that use isn't so, you know, if the weight given to that factor isn't doesn't overwhelm the other factors, they're still going to lose.
00:16:15So and also the other thing about transformative uses for a judge, it's in the eyes of the beholder, you know, the judge is the beholder.
00:16:22And it's a subjective test, ultimately.
00:16:24And you make your arguments.
00:16:26But the court, you know, what's transformative?
00:16:29Another case, I don't know how many of you remember Edgar, Edgar and Johnny Winters, who were the two brothers back.
00:16:37This is back, you know, back in the 60s and 70s, but they had they were albinos and their physical presence was really well noted.
00:16:45They had long kind of white hair and they're very, very fair.
00:16:49And someone wrote a did a cartoon with characters based on their likenesses.
00:16:54But ultimately, the judge said it was a transformative use of those two characters, slightly different case.
00:16:59But it was just just goes to the subjective nature, because honestly, I looked at that comic and I was thinking, this is Edgar and Johnny.
00:17:06This is nobody else. But the court found it was OK.
00:17:09Some of the critical issues that come up here for you are and this comes up all the time or, you know, what you can do with, you know, embedding and embedding images into your websites, you know, viral videos, music, photographs and other graphics and parody, of course.
00:17:25And I want to discuss those with the the embeds from social media, the content, the content of the of the embedded material generally belongs to the poster.
00:17:39And if you look at the we talked, I think, with Jennifer, I talked to Jennifer about the embedly service, which you use their terms of you specifically say that they are a pass through a pass through entity.
00:17:52You know, there are a pass through for the material that they they offer and their their platform terms of use generally require and generally speaking, they require posters to consent to sharing of posts by other users.
00:18:05In most cases, in most cases, in most cases, someone who posts to social media understands that that could go and be posted by other people.
00:18:14But in some instances, the posters have objected. And there are a couple of cases.
00:18:19I mean, there's a Mugakin v Newsweek where a judge refused to to dismiss a copyright lawsuit for use of an embedded Instagram post, just saying that it wasn't clear that the embed the embed tool gave the new site an automatic license to repost the photograph.
00:18:37Another case more recently was Sinclair, and this is not Sinclair, the broadcast, this is an artist, a photographer named Sinclair, who and who had posted some material on Instagram, which was then reposted on Mashable.
00:18:55And what the court said, this was Judge Kimba Wood, who I suspect no one really knows, but she was someone years ago who Clinton was going to appoint to the Supreme Court, but she had had an illegal illegal nanny problem.
00:19:10But she wrote a really interesting decision on this, which basically said that the photographer, if you read the terms of use, which were like, there were like three or four sets of terms of use, and I don't know how many of you really studiously read terms of use, and I know I don't.
00:19:30But they, but, you know, if you kind of match them all together, she was able to conclude that the in really what it came down to was the photographer posted their photograph and made it public, you know, you can make your post public or private, she made it public and by doing that she agreed to allow, you know, allow in this case Mashable, who was an Instagram sub licensee to embed the photograph in its website.
00:19:57And the decision, and the decision was later reversed for reconsideration, but this is all a way of saying this is all fluid, there's not as, it's, you can, you have to be careful, because the law isn't really as settled as it might be here.
00:20:12Also, I just, so you know, I mean, because of this case, particularly Sinclair, Instagram and the other social media sites have revised terms of use, and they, they really, they say very clearly that, you know, you can't post someone else's private or confidential information, and includes intellectual property, and then they're reposting on the Instagram terms of use.
00:20:37And I quoted here, and I quoted here, so you can see it, but it says by using this app, you agree to our terms, and that is your legal responsibility to make sure that you have permission to post all media that you are reposting.
00:20:50So, you know, they're very, you know, they're, they're, they're covering themselves here, but they're also giving users a message that if, you know, if you have any doubt about the material that you're reposting, you have to go to the owner of the material.
00:21:06So, now, having said that, what are the guy, what are the useful guidelines for you to use, and I think, you know, one of the things is from the very beginning of the internet, when this law started to developing.
00:21:20One of the things that we always said was, if you're linking, you can't, you couldn't frame material, you know, you couldn't take someone else's, say, a video feed, and put it on your website within a frame without, without having it linking back, and having it marked that it's linking back to the original, you know, the original owner, the poster.
00:21:42And that really is, well, applies here. Always make sure embeds clearly link, and I have a slide coming up, which will show you what I mean, but always make sure the embedded material clearly links to platform, you know, the platform website, you know, like Twitter or Facebook or something.
00:22:00Also, the, the embedded content should bear the logo or other identifying mark of the source platform, if possible. That's important.
00:22:09And, you know, the idea simply is that you want to be clear that as you embed material, that it's clear to the viewer that this is not your material, it belongs to, it was posted on Twitter or Facebook or somewhere else.
00:22:24Don't host images of, you know, don't, you know, don't host the images or videos in your embeds directly on your server.
00:22:30Also, you know, an article about a particular posting or trend can include embeds as examples, and this would be a fair use. So if you're doing a critique of something, and, you know, if you're doing, you know, or if you were mentioning something newsworthy, you certainly can show, you certainly can show it and refer to it.
00:22:53But again, it has to be in that news criticism context.
00:22:58Again, you know, to state the obvious, if a post, if something is marked private, don't repost it, you know, you just can't do it. It's not, you know, it's not worth the trouble.
00:23:09Or at least understand that you're taking a very significant risk by doing so.
00:23:12This is the post I was mentioning. This is, I don't know if you, this came up, I think Jennifer sent this to me, or somebody sent this to me, about whether they could use this type of post.
00:23:24This was a woman doing a very satirical posting on TikTok, I think it was, about a Kim Kardashian's line of clothing, and she gave a very deadpan narrative about body shape and body size and all that.
00:23:39It was very funny. But if you look at this, I've circled, you know, there's the TikTok, you know, posting it, there's the TikTok logo, there, or it was BuzzFeed linked to TikTok, actually.
00:23:52But there's the TikTok logo there, you know, it's all very, it says only on TikTok. It's all very clearly marked. So there's no question about where it comes from.
00:24:02I think that's pretty clear. But it, this was a very good example, and it just came up. And so I wanted you to, wanted to make sure you saw it.
00:24:11For viral videos and memes, you know, if something is viral, you know, and the Bernie, the Bernie picture on mittens, that was just everywhere. It was just everywhere.
00:24:25You know, and it was, you know, generally speaking, you know, it's okay to use for news and commentary. It's okay to, you know, if it desires to show a whole video or something interesting, you have to provide the link to the website.
00:24:38But the memes are protected by copyright, but some of them are so ubiquitous, that any risk for reposting is really negligible. So, you know, the, you know, something like the Bernie, the Bernie and mittens.
00:24:53Well, this is just a few of the examples that popped up. And there were, you know, millions of these, if you wanted to spend hours on Instagram, you could have found millions of these memes with, you know, Bernie and mittens popping up all over the place.
00:25:04And, you know, is anyone going to be in trouble for that photographer? I really, really doubt it. It's not, I, you know, I haven't heard of anything and I just can't imagine that anything so ubiquitous would be, would be, you know, that was really thrust out there, would be, that someone would go after it.
00:25:29And more than that, you'd have a serious risk of being liable for copyright infringement. Although, in theory, you could be, but, you know, there's always the practical side of all of this. You have to sort of assess what the risk is.
00:25:43For music, this came up recently. And just to reiterate, using excerpts, you know, you know, for a critical review is okay. Using the entire song is not. Use for intros and outros is not. You need to use them. You need a sync or a mechanical license for that.
00:26:03And also, again, regarding allowable length, and I've mentioned this before, but there is no rule, there is no 30 second rule, and I'll repeat this again later.
00:26:14There is no rule about defining what a fair use is. That's important. And also, you know, use and use of music and advertising promos produced for clients requires a license. You can't just use, you know, use the music, you know, without permission to produce a promo for a client. That's just a real ticket to an infringement suit.
00:26:42Photos, you know, one of the things I found, you have to resist the urge to use a catchy photo. You have to, for anything found on the web, you see something like you post it, you have to ask yourself, you know, you should hear like a, you know, an Obi-Wan Kenobi voice in your head saying, you know, go with the force. Don't do it. Just don't do it. Ask if it's permitted.
00:27:08It's permitted. Because those photos, you know, you can't just lift a photo. I mean, it belongs to someone. You have to always remind yourself, this belongs, someone took this photograph. I cannot use it. And, you know, maybe you get away with it, maybe you don't. But that's really not the question. The question is, you've created a vulnerability for Beasley by doing that.
00:27:27Also, you know, there are some websites that say license-free photos. You know, some of them may be, that may be true. A lot of them, they're not. You have to be careful. And you have to check. You have to vet these things.
00:27:41And also, sometimes people post photos and they say, you know, even on these license-free websites, people will post the photos. They don't have the rights to the photos. They don't have the rights to post them in the first place.
00:27:51So, you know, you have to do a bit of due diligence here without driving yourself crazy, but you do have to ask the question. Always ask the question.
00:27:59And when we've talked, I had a conversation with Jennifer about this recently, but you want to use photos from, it's easier, honestly, and safer. Just use photos from the subscription services that you have from Getty or from Shutter, you know, from Shutterstock.
00:28:16I think you mentioned you have a license for USA Today. Or alternatively, you know, especially if it's something topical and local, you know, you have an iPhone, take a picture, use that picture.
00:28:27You know, if, you know, if one of your people are out there, if your staff is out there and they see something, have them take an original photo. That just makes all the problems go away and, you know, make sure, of course, they understand what, you know, that they're doing this as part of their work and that the work belongs to you.
00:28:47They don't have the rights to it. But that's a really easy way to get around some of these issues, especially if they're just, you know, shots of nature, shots of animals, shots of something.
00:28:59Don't just get them on the web. Go out and take a picture of a dog. You know, it's just much, much easier to do and honestly much safer.
00:29:07I want to talk to you a little bit about parody because I feel like I get this question a lot of what's permitted.
00:29:16There's, you know, parody works in two contexts, trademark and parody.
00:29:19And, you know, from a trademark point of view, the parody has to distinguish itself from the original by communicating some element of satire, ridicule or joking.
00:29:28And the case that I always think through, and I used to have a graphic for it, but I didn't include this. It took too much room.
00:29:37But there, you know, North Face, they have that very distinctive graphic of, you know, what's, I guess, sort of a cliff, you know, the rounded, rounded curved lines up sort of in the left with, you know, the upper left hand corner.
00:29:50Well, a company, a father and son team, son team from New Jersey decided to start a company called South Butt.
00:29:58And it was sort of the antithesis of North Face, which is sort of rugged outdoors.
00:30:01And South Butt was, you know, stay and watch TV. Don't exert yourself. Stay lazy.
00:30:05And, you know, it was basically three curved lines, exactly the way North Face was, but in the opposite direction, sort of like as a sitting person, you know, someone's butt sitting on a chair.
00:30:15And they got, they got hammered pretty hard for that. And it was just not because they, they were selling, they were selling clothing. It was a, they were selling competing line of clothing.
00:30:24So that was not considered a parody because they just weren't, you know, they were clearly, you know, it wasn't merely ridiculing or joking. They were trying to compete.
00:30:34And that was a problem from a copyright perspective of the parody has to provide some commentary on the original work.
00:30:40And it goes to the little, the pretty woman song, you know, it has to say something about the original work that's critical.
00:30:47And, you know, there was, for instance, a case after the OJ trial years ago, somebody wrote a book in a Dr. Seuss, kind of in a Dr. Seuss cadence, sort of like a cat in the hat about the trial.
00:31:02And they were sued by, you know, the estate of Dr. Seuss, you know, or the publisher.
00:31:11And it was said not, it was not a parody because it said nothing about the original work.
00:31:15It was just somebody being clever with, with, with the doctors, you know, basically taking something based on Dr. Seuss and writing something about OJ,
00:31:23but using exactly the same, the same cadence, the same wording, a lot of the same rhyme schemes.
00:31:28So that was considered a copyright infringement rather than a parody.
00:31:34Something that comes up and, you know, which I've, I've, I've talked to, talked to people down there a few times about, you know,
00:31:42merely changing lyrics for an advertising or promotion, changing lyrics of a popular song isn't a parody.
00:31:47That's, that's creating, really, that's creating an unauthorized derivative work.
00:31:52If you have a melody and you put new lyrics on it, A, you're using the melody and this is music.
00:31:57There's, there's the composition, the, the, the, the music that's written.
00:32:01Then there's the performance, you know, using the soundtrack, the broadcast or the performance of it by the band.
00:32:06There are two separate copyrights in there, two separate rights in there, which your license is covered.
00:32:12But it's the composition versus the public performance.
00:32:15If you're doing just, you know, writing new lyrics over, over, over a, an existing melody, that's not an acceptable parody.
00:32:24It's not, you know, for a promotion, it's not.
00:32:27And so you have to avoid doing something like that.
00:32:31There was, you know, I just got something out of Philadelphia actually about that.
00:32:36But you have to be very careful, careful.
00:32:39It's not a parody, even if it's funny.
00:32:40And a lot of the stuff is funny.
00:32:42Admittedly, it's funny.
00:32:44You know, it makes you laugh.
00:32:45You think of it, you come up with the idea and you think that's really funny.
00:32:48But some of these things could sort of walk you in, you know, walk you into, into trouble that you would like to avoid if you can.
00:32:56But, you know, again, having said all of that, you know, even if it's not a parody, use of just a couple words.
00:33:02I mean, you know, you don't want to be, you don't want to be draconian about this, obviously.
00:33:06And something came up where somebody was doing a promotion, pour some gravy on me, rather than there's a song, apparently pour some sugar on me.
00:33:15And, you know, the question was, was that permissible?
00:33:17But it was such a small part of what they were doing.
00:33:19And in the context of it was, it might have been Thanksgiving or something, but it was, you know, I can't imagine anyone was going to notice it.
00:33:28And it was so small.
00:33:29It wasn't a parody, but it wasn't even clear to me when I was looking at it that anyone would have made, you know, made the link, except in a very, you know, in a very kind of attenuated way that these two things had anything to do with each other.
00:33:44So, you know, I think that was okay, as it was fine. And I think it was used and nothing happened. So, you know, you're okay.
00:33:51But you want to, you do want to check to make sure when you're doing these things, always takes, it always makes sense just to send Jamie a quick message saying, can I do this?
00:34:02You know, is this okay? And, you know, it can be resolved in 20 minutes, but it just, if you have any doubt, check.
00:34:07It's important. There's going to fair use. We've talked about it.
00:34:13And I found this has always been helpful when I, when I've talked to people about fair use to understand, you know, what's permissible and what's not.
00:34:22The first case involved little thumbnail photos used on a website.
00:34:26And, you know, they weren't, they weren't the actual photo.
00:34:31I think there were, there were artwork of, there was another case, similar case involving pornographic images, but it was, it was the same idea of the thumbnails with the thumbnails, actual cop, you know, was sufficiently substantial, substantial copies to constitute copyright infringement.
00:34:49And in this case of, of Kelly B. Ribasoff, they said, no, the thumbnails were just there to sort of give a sense of what they had, but they weren't illegal copies of the whole work.
00:34:57And they didn't deprive the market of any, you know, they didn't deprive the author or the person who created the photographs of any revenue because they were, they, they weren't the actual photographs with the same quality.
00:35:08So that was found okay.
00:35:11Use of just 30 seconds from a four minute video.
00:35:13This was the Reginald Denny beating in LA.
00:35:16And that was caught on tape and it was the LA news versus a television station.
00:35:22And they found in that case that the 30 seconds were the most critical 30 seconds in the entire 40 minute video because they showed the beating they showed.
00:35:31And I'm sure we all saw it as the police beating, beating Reginald Denny, but because they captured the essence of it.
00:35:38That was found 30 seconds was found to have been infringing another similar matter.
00:35:44And this is, this is a bit obscure, but to keep in mind, there was in a, in a television show there for 27 seconds, this camera was focused in an area that showed a quilt as it was a background for a television series.
00:36:00And the, that was found to be infringing because it captured the entire, the entire quilt and it, you know, without the authorization of the owner depriving her of, of license fees and whatnot.
00:36:13So again, you know, all by way of saying, you have to be careful, you have to be very, very careful on this.
00:36:21Then going to copyright myths, we had, this is sort of us to sum up everything that we've been talking about, but it, if it's available, you know, one copyright myth, if it's available on the internet for free or otherwise, it's not protected by copyright.
00:36:41And you have different, you have different, different content, your stock photos, like those, you have YouTube and other video and audio materials shown there.
00:36:53You also have materials on government websites.
00:36:56Those are not always in the public domain.
00:36:59Again, you know, your stock photos, all that, those are protected.
00:37:02You know, you have to have a license to use them.
00:37:04YouTube and other videos, you have to be careful, use them in the way that I talked about if you're going to be embedding.
00:37:09So, um, materials on government websites, there was, um, a photograph of, this is a former Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, and the photograph was taken from an Israeli government site.
00:37:22And people generally assume that if it's on a government website, it's public domain.
00:37:26Certainly U.S. copyright law, anything produced by the government is public domain.
00:37:31Um, you know, for the, you know, with virtually no exceptions.
00:37:34But this photograph was actually, uh, there was a, it was not given to the government.
00:37:40It was produced by a photographer who then saw, you know, essentially licensed it to the government.
00:37:46So when this was picked up in the U.S., uh, they sued and they won.
00:37:50They, they, the guy had a valid case for, to make a demand and demand licensing fees.
00:37:55Um, so you have to be, again, the, the takeaway from all this is just be careful.
00:38:00You just have to be careful.
00:38:02Copyright myth number two, if it's on social media platform, such as Facebook or LinkedIn or Twitter, it's free for the taking.
00:38:10Obviously, no, the answer is not, you know, that it's free for the taking.
00:38:14Um, as we've talked already, and I, I, I don't mean to be redundant here.
00:38:20I really don't.
00:38:21But, uh, I think it's just important to hear it again, is that you can't just copy content from these platforms for that permission.
00:38:28You have to look at the terms of use.
00:38:30And also, you know, if you're doing it on your websites, make sure it links back to these things.
00:38:35And there's no question that it's, it's not like you've just simply taken it and pasted it onto your website.
00:38:40If it's on Twitter, it has to be within Twitter frame and show Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn.
00:38:44It's all the same thing.
00:38:46You have to make sure that it goes back to them.
00:38:48If you're embedded, it goes to the, the, the embedding issue.
00:38:51Um, just make sure and just, you know, read the terms and be, be careful.
00:38:56And if, again, if you have a question and ask, just ask to make sure it's okay.
00:39:01Um, just a basic primer.
00:39:05If something, you find something that doesn't have a copyright symbol, that does not mean it's not
00:39:09protected, um, the 1976 act did away with formality requirements, like having a copyright notice
00:39:15on there.
00:39:16So, uh, you don't, don't make any assumptions based on whether there is or is not a copyright
00:39:22notice.
00:39:24Um, this is, um, again, it goes to what we were talking about creating derivative works.
00:39:31Um, this was something we had dealt with several years ago and then during the madman television
00:39:36series, and there was always, what would Don do?
00:39:39And, uh, there was a promotion created using that whole motif with the same kind of, uh,
00:39:44the same kind of, uh, graphics for, um, you know, the same kind of graphics and also the,
00:39:51you know, the same, you know, the same, uh, making it very clear that they were deriving
00:39:57this directly from, from, uh, from, uh, from, from this television show.
00:40:02And, uh, that was, that was, that was infringing.
00:40:06We told them, don't do it, you know, just really don't do it.
00:40:09It's just, it's a commercial use and it would, you know, using it commercially, it's a major
00:40:13problem.
00:40:14You can't do that kind of thing.
00:40:16I must admit, I haven't seen anything from, from Beasley like that, uh, you know, that
00:40:21egregious.
00:40:21Um, but I've still, it's still a good example.
00:40:26Um, let's see, what else do we have?
00:40:28Um, you know, you, you, you, you, there's the idea that any kind of, um, sorry, that any
00:40:38kind of use of third-party material appearing in news broadcasts is always a fair use.
00:40:43Um, that's not correct.
00:40:45Fair, again, fair use depends on these, these factors that we discussed, the purpose and
00:40:49character of the use, the nature of the copyrighted work, the amount and substance of substantiality
00:40:54of what's been used and the effect on the potential market for criticism, you know, comment
00:41:00news reporting, do not, again, don't use extended clips.
00:41:04You could use short clips.
00:41:05You can use, you know, you can use photos, you can use quotes, but be careful, you know,
00:41:10don't, don't, and I suspect a lot of, you know, this already, but don't use the entire,
00:41:15uh, don't use the entire, uh, subject that you're criticizing, just, uh, just, and you
00:41:23use only as much as needed, which is really what the standard is only as much as needed
00:41:28to make your point.
00:41:29Um, use of sports content by team is controlled by teams.
00:41:34You have to be careful with that.
00:41:35I'm sure all of you know this.
00:41:37Um, so, uh, you know, and if you have the permission from the teams, well, you're fine.
00:41:43Um, but if you're asking about that and you have permission of teams, let us know, because
00:41:47that obviously makes a difference in what we're going to tell you.
00:41:50Um, so we, we kind of need to know the background when you, when you're thinking about these
00:41:54things, um, uh, let's say there was one issue just as about an example where there was a,
00:42:00uh, uh, a blog, uh, a Tucson station used footage from a local cycling and a bicycle enthusiast,
00:42:07uh, in a new story about cycling, there was no consent sought or obtained and no credit provided.
00:42:13Well, they got sued and, you know, they, they, they, they got sued by, and, uh, by the blogger
00:42:19and the station had to pay some money, not a lot, but they had to pay a little bit of
00:42:21money.
00:42:22And, but more than that, you know, more importantly, the station received negative press and it's
00:42:27just bad PR, you know, and you go, Hey, for this, a local blogger, his photo was essentially
00:42:32stolen.
00:42:33I mean, think of it as your station, your station does something like this.
00:42:36And suddenly, you know, they're saying, Oh, look, Beasley, Beasley takes stuff and doesn't
00:42:39give credit.
00:42:40That's bad PR that doesn't help.
00:42:43Let's see.
00:42:44What else do we got here?
00:42:45Um, okay.
00:42:49And then, uh, uh, the station can use a copyrighted word for any purpose in any time, as long as
00:42:56the credits, the author.
00:42:57Well, obviously no, you know, it's, it's all subject to, it's all subject to the fair use,
00:43:03you know, a fair use of purpose of what you're doing.
00:43:05Um, you giving the credit is not sufficient and, uh, attribution doesn't make it fair.
00:43:13Um, it is a professional obligation, but it's not a defense for copyright, copyright, copyright
00:43:19infringement.
00:43:20So, uh, again, be careful with that.
00:43:23Uh, be very careful with that.
00:43:24Uh, myth number seven has to do with music licenses.
00:43:28Uh, they cover only the public perform ASCAP, CSAC, BMI, they cover only the public performance,
00:43:34not all blanket lie, uh, blanket licenses cover internet or other digital uses.
00:43:40You know, there's a sound exchange license for, uh, separate, you know, freestanding, uh, uh,
00:43:47internet streaming.
00:43:49Um, and also for production of videos and promos use of music, there are separate sync licenses
00:43:55or master use licenses for use of music in, in film or commercials or television production
00:44:02or anything like that.
00:44:03Um, it just, and you have to go, those are more, you have to go directly to the music
00:44:08publishers for them.
00:44:10Uh, and, uh, there's not, uh, there's no easy way to, I have no easy way to get them.
00:44:15It just requires sending, you know, sending a letter, asking, asking the publisher to grant
00:44:19the license, see how much they want.
00:44:22Um, sometimes they're reasonable.
00:44:23Sometimes they're not, um, again, regarding the timing, I just want to reiterate, there's
00:44:30no such thing as a 30 second rule.
00:44:31I've heard this for all the years I've been in, in working with radio clients, you know,
00:44:36they say, well, there's a 30 second rule.
00:44:37There's no 30 second rule.
00:44:39It's not a fair, you know, that's not a fair use defense.
00:44:42Uh, you have to be very careful with it.
00:44:44Uh, and again, if you have a question, you call, you know, you send Jamie a message, uh,
00:44:51but you have to understand there's no such thing as a 30 second rule.
00:44:56Uh, myth nine, again, this goes to parody.
00:44:59I've talked about this before already.
00:45:01And I, again, I don't want to beat you over the heads with it.
00:45:04Um, but it's, uh, you have to create a parody of the, a parody means you're saying something
00:45:10about the copyrighted work.
00:45:11We were talking about this a while ago.
00:45:14Uh, and Chris, uh, with, uh, with Chris Ronellis and, uh, uh, uh, uh, we were, we were talking
00:45:22about, and I, I cited to an example of an old, uh, something in the Harvard lampoon had done
00:45:28a parody of the Lord of the Rings of the original Hobbit book called Bored, B-O-R-E-D of the
00:45:34Rings.
00:45:34And it was actually quite funny, but it was really a parody because it just made fun of
00:45:38everything about the original work.
00:45:40That's a parody.
00:45:40Um, you need, and, you know, again, Roy Orbison and Two Life Crew, the Two Life Crew was making
00:45:45fun of Roy Orbison and not merely making fun, but saying, being critical of it in their own
00:45:52way of the original song.
00:45:54And so that was, that was a, uh, a parody, but again, it's, it's been, uh, here's the
00:46:00OJ book that I've mentioned before.
00:46:02It's not a parody.
00:46:04You know, you have to be careful with it.
00:46:05You have to make sure you're not just being clever and using someone else's tune or without
00:46:10saying anything about the original work.
00:46:13Um, one non-myth, which we really, I really wanted to point out here.
00:46:19And, uh, we, I wanted to make it clear infringement, you know, if you have, if someone has a copyright
00:46:24registration, uh, they're entitled to statutory damages plus, and if it's willful, or if you're
00:46:29willfully negligent, you could get it even attorney's fees up to $30,000 per violation.
00:46:35And it's up to $150,000 if it's willful.
00:46:39So this is not chump change.
00:46:42This is, it can be serious.
00:46:43Obviously people settle for less, you know, you, you settle these things out, but they're
00:46:48in a position, I've gotten letters from, uh, a few years ago.
00:46:51I remember getting a letter from a station, got a letter, not one of yours, um, but, uh,
00:46:56a letter from a photographer who did rock and roll concerts and the station had posted,
00:47:01taken one of his photos and then put it on their web.
00:47:03They actually use it on their website, on their homepage.
00:47:05So it was the background for their homepage.
00:47:07And he came after, and he was asking $30,000.
00:47:10We settled for four or five and we were able to get them down quite significantly.
00:47:14But the bottom line was he had a copyright registration.
00:47:17Legally speaking, we would have spent a whole lot more than that trying to defend it in court.
00:47:21It wouldn't have made sense.
00:47:22You settle them out.
00:47:23There's real money, real money involved here.
00:47:26And something else, there's a second cause of statutory damages here, which is removal
00:47:31of a copyright notice.
00:47:33If, you know, you use a photograph or something and there's a copyright or an image and there's
00:47:38a copyright notice on it and you remove it, that's a separate, uh, a separate, uh, violation
00:47:44of the Copyright Act, um, for, you know, tampering with copyright management information, they call
00:47:50it, but that's up to $25,000 per violation.
00:47:53I had a case recently dealing with that where it was my client, um, and it was, you know,
00:47:58they had removed copyright notices from her, her work, their medical illustrations.
00:48:02It was very, it was, that's a separate violation.
00:48:06Um, also you have to think about, you know, what these letters, what, you know, when you
00:48:12get a demand letter, if you violate what it does to the business, it clearly takes your
00:48:15attention away from, you know, actually doing your business from, you know, you know, making
00:48:21your, you know, just the day-to-day operations, um, it's anxiety producing and it can disrupt
00:48:27your marketing plans and things like that.
00:48:29If there's any kind of, if there's an actual, any harm, uh, so you have to be careful.
00:48:34And also there's the PR standpoint of it.
00:48:36If it's the sort of thing that people will really say, oh, I can't believe they did that.
00:48:40That's awful.
00:48:41Um, so, you know, you could, the question to ask is, is copying worth the money or aggravation
00:48:47that, that could be involved.
00:48:49I mean, that's just a practical consideration, but I think it's really important, you know,
00:48:54and almost as important as the legal, the legal side of things is you have to ask yourself,
00:48:59you know, how much do I want to be bothered, uh, by this?
00:49:02It's in, is it worth the money?
00:49:04That are really important questions to ask.
00:49:07Um, top 10 tips, you know, ensure all your contracts, you know, your, your, your official
00:49:15rules for your, your contests are, uh, uh, your terms of use, make sure any use of third
00:49:21party content to be fighting.
00:49:23They have to, any, anybody who provides content to you on a third of, uh, to your websites,
00:49:28they have to represent that they have the right to, they're not violating anyone, anyone else's
00:49:32rights.
00:49:33Uh, they have to indemnial and indemnify you against liability in case someone does pop
00:49:39up and make an infringement claim and, uh, don't limit the station's liability.
00:49:43Uh, you just, you know, because you, you, you want to make sure, uh, that they will cover
00:49:51all damages and indemnify.
00:49:52Um, you want to be prepared to immediately remove the infringing or otherwise violative content.
00:49:59If you get a letter and if something is clearly infringing, take it down immediately, because
00:50:03if you don't, you know, if, if you put something up and you say, you put it up and you didn't
00:50:07realize it was an accident, it was, you know, it was innocent, it was an innocent infringement,
00:50:11uh, which, you know, it's still an infringement, but if you leave it up after you've received
00:50:16notice, it becomes willful.
00:50:17So it's really important to get it down quick, you know, really, really, really quickly get
00:50:22it off your website.
00:50:24Um, and again, repeating what we've already said, don't, you know, don't assume anything you
00:50:29find on the internet is in the public domain.
00:50:31And these days it's not, and frankly, people are litigious, um, and they, you know, people
00:50:38blame lawyers for this, but it really, people are, people get very angry when they see their
00:50:42stuff on the web and they want to do something about it.
00:50:45Um, and they will find a lawyer to do it.
00:50:47So you have to be careful.
00:50:49Um, again, read the terms of use before taking content from any third party website, make sure
00:50:54you know what you're getting into.
00:50:56Uh, you don't want to, you know, sometimes taking, taking copy alone can violate the terms of
00:51:01use.
00:51:01So if you say you cannot take any, any material from this website and you do it anyway, well,
00:51:05that's another separate.
00:51:08Or to, you know, another separate violation.
00:51:10Um, what else do we have here?
00:51:13You know, and investigate, you know, always, always take the extra five minutes to determine
00:51:18if someone uses something.
00:51:19If someone has the rights to give, to offer something or provide something that they're
00:51:24offering on the web.
00:51:25If you have any questions, again, ask Jamie and we can take a look at that, but, uh, it's
00:51:31important, uh, it's worth it to take an extra 10 minutes and to do that.
00:51:35Um, and where necessary, obtain the licenses to obtain consent.
00:51:40If there's something you really desperately want to use and you think it's important and,
00:51:45you know, you can, you're not, it's not otherwise covered by a, uh, an ASCAP or BMI license or
00:51:50something else, or one of your stock photo images, call them and see.
00:51:54Sometimes you find, um, I do a copyright clearance not too long ago for a book.
00:51:59We're using different quotes for material.
00:52:01And I found an easily 50, 60% of the people were happy to just let us use the quote, uh,
00:52:07as long as we gave them a credit for it.
00:52:09And sometimes you find with, especially for young photographers, people who are doing
00:52:13stuff, they're happy to just get their stuff out there.
00:52:15If you give them a credit, you know, sometimes, or, you know, pay them a nominal fee, but it's,
00:52:19you can often get the permission pretty easily.
00:52:22Um, again, with social, you know, you know, uh, we talked about these embeds, make sure they
00:52:28link to the social media platforms, uh, as much as possible, make sure they're clearly
00:52:33marked as coming from those social media platforms, um, understand your music licenses, uh, music
00:52:40licenses are complicated.
00:52:42I mean, you have ASCAP, BMI, you, you, you, you're in radio, you know what you're doing
00:52:46with music licenses.
00:52:47Um, but if you have any questions about them, make sure you ask, uh, if there's any ambiguity.
00:52:52And again, if you're trying to use music and promotions or anything like that, make sure
00:52:57you, you check to, to clear the licenses, to, to understand the licenses that you need, the
00:53:02sync licenses or master, master use licenses for the compositions, um, avoid that for user
00:53:11generated content.
00:53:11That's on your website.
00:53:13You want to, uh, you have a safe harbor through the digital millennium copyright act.
00:53:19You could lose that safe harbor if you've manipulated it, uh, uh, or made modifications to it.
00:53:25Uh, and it, it could negate the available safe harbors for you, not just under the digital
00:53:31millennium copyright, uh, copyright act, but also under the communications decency act.
00:53:36Uh, you, you don't want to, if users are posting and you don't have any control or intervention
00:53:40that gives you a very, uh, uh, you know, that preserves your safe harbor.
00:53:44But if you start editing or, or even providing, um, uh, categories or, or a mechanisms for users
00:53:53to use categories and material in a certain way, uh, that would, you, you would forfeit
00:53:59your safe harbor there.
00:54:00Um, that's, and that's, those cases, I don't know if you, you, you've been mindful that there's
00:54:07been this rush to go, uh, to, uh, um, undo section 230 of the communications decency act,
00:54:16which provides it safe harbor because a lot of, a lot of websites and it goes to hate speech
00:54:22and things like that.
00:54:23But, you know, people are saying, well, other people are posting things on these websites.
00:54:27We're not controlling them.
00:54:29And, uh, there, there's a, you know, people are taking a second look at that.
00:54:34It can, it can work in a lot of bad ways.
00:54:37It's been very productive having that there in a sense it's protected people from protected
00:54:42providers and servers from website posted by their content.
00:54:46But if the whole, you know, if the whole basis for the, the platform is, you know, that kind
00:54:54of, you know, something that's, you know, truly, uh, you know, generating say pornography or
00:55:00something else like that, well, that's another issue altogether.
00:55:03Um, so, you know, but that's happening, but you, and for the moment, at any rate, you don't
00:55:08want to do anything to, to, uh, take yourself out of the safe harbor.
00:55:12So don't do anything to manipulate, uh, manipulate or select or edit the material that you're getting,
00:55:19you know, that's being posted.
00:55:20And again, if someone asks you to take material down, you should really consider doing it.
00:55:26Um, and under the DMCA, you have to, uh, you know, if, if you've received a notice, uh, and
00:55:33the CDA, I think it's good practice too, unless it's a completely, you know, fatuous claim
00:55:38where people will, and people will make, you know, specious claims about material.
00:55:43And so, you know, there was just that case where the woman make all these derogatory postings
00:55:47on the, on, against the Toronto real estate agent that, uh, it caused him a lot of grief,
00:55:51but she turned out to be quite crazy and ended up, uh, being charged recently for defamation.
00:55:57But she had, and really damaged these people's reputations on the web and the, and the platforms
00:56:02wouldn't take stuff down because of the safe Harbor, but, uh, they find, finally, but these
00:56:07people have spent a lot of money to litigate, to get, finally get that done, but just be,
00:56:11again, the takeaway here, be careful and, and be mindful of, if you get complaints, respond
00:56:17to them.
00:56:18Um, the final, the final is if you have any doubts, um, or you have any questions, check
00:56:26with an attorney, give Jamie a call, um, give Chris a call, you know, if there's any question
00:56:32at all, you want to be careful.
00:56:34You don't want to, you know, you, you, you'd rather not call and saying, you, you'd rather
00:56:38call and say, is this okay?
00:56:39Rather than we just got a demand letter.
00:56:41So, uh, just, you know, be prudent as you move forward, given what I've talked about.
00:56:48And, um, with that, I think maybe we can open up to questions and Jamie, do you want to
00:56:54do this through chat or through, um, uh, through, uh, or through, uh, have people just hype
00:57:02up if they have questions and we can have a discussion.
00:57:04We can have people just pipe up.
00:57:05I did get one question from somebody already.
00:57:07So I can go ahead and ask you that.
00:57:09And then we can start, um, from there.
00:57:11People have additional questions.
00:57:13Okay.
00:57:14Do you want to read that?
00:57:15She writes, yeah.
00:57:16You want to do that way?
00:57:17Yeah.
00:57:17I'll start with this, with this one.
00:57:19Uh, she writes with so many rules to keep in mind when blogging, is there a basic rule
00:57:24of thumb to keep in mind, i.e.
00:57:26stick with original content, write local.
00:57:28Do you have any advice for people who are blogging?
00:57:31Well, for bloggers, it really has to do with the third party.
00:57:35If I understand the question properly, it has to do with whether you're using third party
00:57:40kind of, if you're writing about events, if you're writing about other things, well, that's,
00:57:44that's journalism.
00:57:45Essentially, you're, you're, you're writing about things for the content of
00:57:49what you're writing is okay.
00:57:50It's just, if you're using third party material, you have to, you, you have to try to adhere
00:57:57to the, the basic rules that I've talked about with attribution, with, um, not using photographs
00:58:02without authorization, unless you're talking about criticism or things like that.
00:58:06Uh, you, you have to be, um, if you, for instance, a blog, if you're using photographs,
00:58:11uh, if people are out, you know, they're in a public space, uh, you're, you're, you don't
00:58:19necessarily need permission to use their photo.
00:58:21If they're out and you're taking a picture of a, uh, a county picnic or something like
00:58:24that, that's one thing.
00:58:26But if you're taking, you know, if you take a closeup of somebody, um, you know, in a,
00:58:31in an article about them, well, if you, even then, if you're doing an article about somebody
00:58:35and you take a picture of them from the interview, that's, that would seem to me to be okay.
00:58:39But if they're, if you take a picture and they don't know you're taking it and it's
00:58:42a closeup, you, you should not avoid doing, you should avoid doing that.
00:58:46But for bloggers, generally speaking, I think as long as you're not using 30 part, third
00:58:51party content and not defaming anyone or anything like that, you're, you're, uh, you're okay.
00:58:57Does that, I hope that answers that question.
00:59:00Um, so then we got another one.
00:59:02If I take a photo that includes a copyrighted image or logo, am I okay to use it?
00:59:06If you, if you take a photo, if I take a photo that includes a copyrighted
00:59:11image or logo, am I okay to use that photo?
00:59:16Um, you mean a copyright, I guess I mean a copyright notice.
00:59:21Um, no, again, you have to check.
00:59:23No.
00:59:23I mean, if it's a definition, if you, if it has a copyright notice or image, you know,
00:59:28that, uh, you have to go to the owner or if it's a, if it's a stock photo, you know, and
00:59:35you've gotten it from Getty or something from who you, who, you know, one of the subscription
00:59:38services, that's one thing.
00:59:40But if it's just something you found and it has a copyright notice, you really can't
00:59:44use it.
00:59:44You have to go to the owner to say, get their permission.
00:59:47So can I just real quickly?
00:59:48I think that question was, uh, more about, um, and whoever asked it, please clarify if
00:59:54I'm wrong.
00:59:55If, and I'll just use two examples.
00:59:57One, we don't have access to a photo.
00:59:59Uh, we're doing an article on McDonald's.
01:00:02So I just go out and take a picture of the golden arches in a McDonald's restaurant or
01:00:06two, um, we don't have permission to use an image from a magazine cover or, uh, an album.
01:00:14If I personally take a picture of my album, could I use that in the article?
01:00:18Well, if you, if you go out and take your own photograph of a McDonald's, you're doing
01:00:23an article about McDonald's, that seems to be a fair use, frankly, you know, and it's,
01:00:28it's just part of an art.
01:00:29It's part of an article about McDonald's.
01:00:31I, I, I honestly don't think that would be infringing.
01:00:34The second, uh, is if you're using a magazine cover again, if, if you're doing a news article
01:00:39about the magazine cover, say, I, you know, the, the image of, um, uh, well, George Clooney
01:00:47is on the AARP cover, uh, this week or something like that.
01:00:50But if you just take a picture, you could, that could be problematic.
01:00:53It's, it's a, it's a photograph.
01:00:55It belongs to the magazine.
01:00:56It belongs to the photographer.
01:00:57Um, if you're doing a criticism of, for instance, there was the famous Demi Moore cover from
01:01:03Vogue or something with her pregnant, you know, um, that would, I suspect a lot of people
01:01:08wrote articles about it and they showed little thumbnails of that photo.
01:01:11And that would have been a fair use as part of criticism because it was discussing that
01:01:15photo, discussing that photo and that cover.
01:01:18Um, again, it's case by case, you know, I'm sorry to weasel on this, but it's case by case,
01:01:24um, and for what you're using it for and how you're using it.
01:01:28Does that help Jennifer?
01:01:30Yeah, I think the case by case is, is probably the most, um, important thing.
01:01:37Um, yeah, it looks like we have like six or seven more questions.
01:01:39So this is a hot topic.
01:01:42Um, we have someone that asked, can we use a parody on our store merchandise?
01:01:47For example, pour some gravy on me.
01:01:50You know, Jamie, I'm sorry.
01:01:52Can we use a, a parody on our store merchandise?
01:01:56I'm not sure what, um, is exactly being asked, but she wrote pour some gravy on me.
01:02:01Like, for example, could they use that, put that on a t-shirt and sell it?
01:02:05Well, for pour some gravy on me, again, you know, I hate to say, I hate to keep saying
01:02:10case by case basis, but it's for pour some gravy on me.
01:02:14Yeah.
01:02:14I think that you could use it on merchandise.
01:02:16So if it was, let me just ask this, if it was, and again, maybe I've talked to this
01:02:20person, um, if it was in the same typeface as the artist's album cover, where that song
01:02:27pour some sugar on me lived, could we do that?
01:02:29I wouldn't, I wouldn't.
01:02:30Now you're linking it.
01:02:32Yeah.
01:02:32Cause now you're making that connection between pour some sugar on me and pour some gravy
01:02:35on me.
01:02:36And now you're getting commercial use out of the original work.
01:02:40Yeah.
01:02:40Um, okay.
01:02:42So that was one.
01:02:43So we have another one.
01:02:47Uh, if our station is having a top 20 albums of all times of all time weekend, can we use
01:02:54the album covers in our creative on our homepage?
01:03:04That's an interesting question.
01:03:05I, uh, you know, I'm, um, those are protected separately, um, you know, because they're works
01:03:18of art, they're printed, they're printed, the graphic, uh, graphic works.
01:03:21And I don't think your music licenses give you the right to do that.
01:03:25So I, I, you know, I, I think it's more than, you know, it's more than a year.
01:03:30It's more than a fair use.
01:03:32I mean, I think.
01:03:35Lou, we, we do have, I believe we do have license to use artist images, uh, when we're
01:03:44playing the song on our streams, like it'll show up on our apps or it'll, or show up in
01:03:50a vehicle.
01:03:52Um, and I don't know if that covers for this purpose or not, but.
01:03:56Well, if, you know, if you have the license show, the art artist, you buy, you, you just
01:04:01mean the picture of the artist, uh, the portrait of the artist, essentially, um, that would
01:04:06be the photograph of the artist.
01:04:08One thing for the whole album cover.
01:04:11I really, I, I, I want to check that before I told you one way or the other, I will actually
01:04:17check, uh, check that because it strikes me that that could be a problem.
01:04:21Um, but, but, you know, maybe, maybe not, but I feel like I need to check it.
01:04:25Uh, I need to think about it just for a second because the, um, using the entire album cover
01:04:31isn't necessarily covered by your music license.
01:04:35If you're doing the top 20 albums, it, it, um, I, I'd really want to, uh, check before
01:04:42I'll get back to Jamie on that.
01:04:44Okay.
01:04:45But I just don't feel comfortable blurting something out right now.
01:04:48Hey Lou, it's for him.
01:04:49Hey, how are you?
01:04:51Good.
01:04:51Good.
01:04:51How about yourself?
01:04:52Okay.
01:04:53Last, last August, I believe we got that question from a station.
01:04:56I'm not sure you were copied on that email, but, um, we discussed it with Jennifer and Jamie
01:05:01and it looks like Jamie took it, it took a look at our Q contract, Q and using album covers
01:05:11was outside of the scope, using album covers for station promotions was outside of the scope
01:05:17of use for the album.
01:05:19That's what I would think, you know, honestly, that's what I would think, but I, I, I didn't
01:05:25want to say that sort of categorically before I had a chance to double check, but it, it seems
01:05:31to me, especially if, if, if, if you've already gone, you know, determined that already, I
01:05:35think it would be, I mean, I, I just don't see it certainly outside of your, it's certainly
01:05:40the question is, it's certainly outside of your, your music streaming licenses and things
01:05:43like that, but you know, is there some defensible, something defensible you can say about using
01:05:49it?
01:05:50Um, but I, frankly, I'm not sure there is.
01:05:52So thanks for sharing that.
01:05:53I appreciate it.
01:05:54Okay.
01:05:55So Lou, we have, um, in the past we had, I guess, a bit called stand songs to popular
01:06:02tunes.
01:06:03What they would do is they would take the music and sing all of the lyrics, no commentary,
01:06:07but just actually sing the lyrics of the song.
01:06:11No changing of any of the words.
01:06:13Is that okay to do?
01:06:14For example, I kissed a girl and singing all the words.
01:06:18Yes, but who is this in the station staff or somebody?
01:06:20Yeah.
01:06:20Yeah, um, well, let me ask, they did, they did this already, right?
01:06:29Yeah.
01:06:29And was there any, any blowback from it?
01:06:31No, I think they're continuing to do it though.
01:06:33So they want to make sure that they can continue to do it.
01:06:36You know, technically, um, well, they have the, they have the performance right going to
01:06:42the recording, but they're, you know, I think, you know, just from a very narrow copyright,
01:06:50you know, just looking at the law per se, that could be a problem.
01:06:53It's, it's, it's doing a performance of the composition.
01:06:56It sort of violates the composition, uh, you know, as opposed to the performance.
01:07:00Um, but you know, what really the risk, how, how big is the risk of doing that?
01:07:07Given the fact that people sing songs all the time, I mean, are they doing it for commercial
01:07:11purposes?
01:07:11Are they doing it?
01:07:12Is it just sort of a gag that they're doing or is it a gag?
01:07:15It's just like a bit during a talk show.
01:07:17I mean, during a radio show.
01:07:18I would think whatever risk is fairly low, frankly, for doing it, I think there is a
01:07:25vulnerability, but I think the, the risk is, is probably fairly, fairly low, uh, of, of
01:07:33someone really objecting.
01:07:35I think does that risk, does that risk, uh, increase itself when you do monetize it?
01:07:41Say, for instance, that, that gag that plays on the air is repurposed to the YouTube or to
01:07:46the website and then gets hits that derive, uh, some sort of revenue.
01:07:52Yeah, it does.
01:07:53Especially if it's on, you know, if it on the air, on the air for just, you know, 30 seconds
01:07:57or a minute is one thing, but you know, if you start having it on the, on your, on YouTube
01:08:02and it's something people can access regularly and stuff like that.
01:08:04Yeah.
01:08:05It actually increases quite a bit.
01:08:07Okay.
01:08:08Okay.
01:08:09So we have a lot of questions.
01:08:11Sorry, I'm going quickly for, um, so somebody wrote on social media platforms, such as
01:08:16Instagram, and Facebook.
01:08:17They have a story feature that gives you a chance to put an artist's music on your video
01:08:22story.
01:08:23Did the artist give permission if the music is a choice for you to use to go with your 15
01:08:28second story video?
01:08:29And can we use this feature?
01:08:36Lou, I will say on TikTok, UME, uh, just, uh, came out with, uh, about a month ago.
01:08:42They just went into a contract with, uh, TikTok to utilize their music.
01:08:46So TikTok was licensed to use it.
01:08:48I don't, can't speak to Instagram, but that was in the trades about a month ago.
01:08:53Wait, they licensed users to, uh,
01:08:55Yep.
01:08:56Yep.
01:08:56So they, so they gave their, they gave the license to TikTok for users to utilize the,
01:09:01uh, the music in their TikTok videos.
01:09:05When you post a story on, on Instagram that you're talking about, does that come up?
01:09:10Uh, that's an Instagram, uh, on the Instagram platform then?
01:09:16Yes.
01:09:17I would say, I would think that's probably okay.
01:09:20I mean, posting a story, you know, posting, posting music that, uh, that Instagram is already
01:09:27off, you know, authorized that the, the user, I mean, the, whoever posted the music in the
01:09:31first place gave, gave Instagram, you know, the, uh, authority to use, you know, use it,
01:09:39use the music and post it and it's users to post it.
01:09:42I would think they'd be okay.
01:09:43Um, all together.
01:09:44I mean, again, is it, is it commercial or just promotional?
01:09:48Um, it's, if it's, is it commercial or is it just sort of posting?
01:09:53Is this posting by the station per se or posting just by an individual at the station?
01:09:59Sorry.
01:09:59Is it posting by the station per se?
01:10:02Yeah, they would post it by the station, I believe.
01:10:07I would think it's probably, it's probably, probably okay.
01:10:11Um, but again, I want to double check.
01:10:13Yeah.
01:10:14I mean, it's low risk, but again, Instagram says, make sure you have permission to use
01:10:18whatever you're using off of our, off of our platform.
01:10:21Um, so it's possible that they don't have it and they're posting.
01:10:25I mean, but I would think that they would have permission to that if they're putting
01:10:30it on their platform.
01:10:31But again, they leave that caveat that requires us to do the legal.
01:10:36I know that Instagram, if you have a business account, sometimes you don't have access to
01:10:43the music that you would, if you were posting a story on a personal account.
01:10:47So that's something to double check to make sure that their accounts are set as a business
01:10:55account, not a personal account, because when it's set as a business account, um, I think
01:11:00your permissions are much different than a personal account.
01:11:04Yeah, I think that's absolutely right.
01:11:08Okay.
01:11:08So here's our next question.
01:11:10I want to create a parody song and use it in a 30 second video posted on social slash station
01:11:16website.
01:11:16That promotes the station and a station contest.
01:11:20Is this allowed?
01:11:22All right.
01:11:23What's the parody?
01:11:24I mean, yeah.
01:11:26Yeah.
01:11:27The first question is going to be, is it really a parody?
01:11:29Yeah.
01:11:30That would be your first question.
01:11:31So as long as it is a critique on the original artwork or original song, or, you know, some
01:11:37commentary on the original song, that would be considered a parody.
01:11:41If it really was a true parody, then you would be allowed to use it.
01:11:45Right.
01:11:45So that main question is whether or not it's actually a parody.
01:11:48You know, what I, what I suggest is you give us the details and so we can take a look.
01:11:55Yeah, I agree with that one.
01:11:57Um, okay.
01:11:58Hey, Jamie, Jamie, if you, if you're adding that to a contest though, that's almost a licensing
01:12:03issue because it's like saying, uh, like when we do Superbowl, you can say Superbowl on the
01:12:09air as much as you want, but you can't tie it to a sponsor.
01:12:12And if you're kind of, if you're tying a parody song to a contest, then it's almost like you're
01:12:17licensing the song to be used for, for game.
01:12:20But you're allowed to use a parody as long as it's a true parody in whatever form that you
01:12:28want to, but it has to be a true parody.
01:12:29Right, Lou?
01:12:30Yeah, but he's writing, Orlando's writing an issue.
01:12:34If you're using the, even if you, it has to do with the composition.
01:12:37If you're, uh, doing a promotion and you're using the musical composition under, you'll
01:12:42listen to the lyrics, but just the music to it.
01:12:44Yeah.
01:12:45An issue of, you know, whether there's, that's a licensed use of the music of the composition,
01:12:49you know?
01:12:50Okay, so we probably need more details on that one.
01:12:53Whoever asked that question.
01:12:55Yeah.
01:12:55Um, okay.
01:12:56So here's the next one.
01:12:58A longstanding tradition in radio is using a clip of a line from a television show or movie
01:13:03as a drop.
01:13:04How are those affected or protected or can they use that?
01:13:09Um, when you say as a drop, what, what exactly?
01:13:13Like, um, like for example, let's just say Michael Scott, you know, he says, that's what
01:13:19she said, right?
01:13:20So he, maybe I'm assuming this is what the person is talking about that whenever, like
01:13:26they leave it as a button on their bar and then whenever they want to, they just say,
01:13:29that's what she said.
01:13:30Right.
01:13:31I think that that's what he's talking about.
01:13:33Can they use that?
01:13:35I mean, as longstanding practice, I would think it's just a few, it's just a few words and
01:13:40it from a larger, you know, it goes, it's just a few words from a TV to say a character
01:13:44says a certain thing or something like that.
01:13:46Yeah.
01:13:47Like that's what I'm assuming he's talking about.
01:13:49Yeah.
01:13:50I would think it's just, it's very minimal.
01:13:52I would think that's, they could continue doing that.
01:13:54No, it no objects.
01:13:56I mean, it's, I think the risk of that just by practice, the risk is clearly very low.
01:14:00I wouldn't, if there's any risk at all.
01:14:02And it's frankly not even clear to me that there is much of a risk.
01:14:06Okay.
01:14:08Sometimes people use, sorry, you guys, I didn't have a time, a chance to read everything before
01:14:13I'm asking these.
01:14:14So it might be, we might've already answered it.
01:14:15Sometimes people use still frames from movies and, and, or popular videos to talk about
01:14:21the scene at hand.
01:14:22Is that legal?
01:14:23If you cite the source of the video and just use the still frame in the post?
01:14:28If you, if you're writing an article about, you know, if you're writing an article about
01:14:34the film and you use the still frame picture, that would seem to be a fair, a fair use of
01:14:40of the image, you know, you just sort of, as a, as a sort of a clip from the film, you
01:14:44know, a short, a frame, you know, a frame, a photograph of a frame from the last scene
01:14:50of a movie and a criticism and it's all context driven, right?
01:14:54If it's, if it's part of a criticism, it's part of a review of a movie or something that
01:14:58I think that would be fine.
01:15:01Okay.
01:15:01So I have, so someone uses, okay.
01:15:06Do you have to give attribution if we use audio from a new story that's already been
01:15:11broadcasted?
01:15:12For example, this person does a feel good story every day.
01:15:16And if NBC has already done a piece on it, she takes some of the audio and uses it for
01:15:22her story.
01:15:22Does she have to say this came from NBC?
01:15:25Yes.
01:15:25And she has to be careful.
01:15:27Yeah.
01:15:28I mean, you know, you know, if, if she writing a story about what NBC said, you know, criticism
01:15:34will that, you know, a review of saying this was on NBC, well, that's, you know, a fair
01:15:38use of, she only uses as much as necessary to, to capture what she's trying to portray.
01:15:42But if she's portraying the entire thing of NBC's video, well, you need permission from
01:15:47NBC.
01:15:48Yeah.
01:15:48We need to give an attribution, but I'd be careful about, you know, just, you know,
01:15:53transferring a whole cloth to your website.
01:15:55Yeah.
01:15:56And Luke, a question, because I know a lot of stations do this.
01:15:59Um, like when there's a, a similarly, a ridiculous news story out there, they'll use an audio
01:16:05clip of the report and then provide commentary on what happened.
01:16:10Is that okay?
01:16:11Well, yeah, if an audio clip, if, if it's in the context of a story about the new, about
01:16:15the new story, you know, a particular outrageous news story, as long as they use only so much
01:16:20as necessary to capture the essence of what, you know, what the story is.
01:16:25Yes, that's fine.
01:16:26If they, if they broadcast the entire clip, you know, in, it may be the entire clip is
01:16:31necessary, but it most likely not, uh, but just be judicious about how you use it.
01:16:36But if it's again, in the context of a criticism or review of a story that's out there, there's
01:16:41a, that's a fair use of the material, but again, don't use more than you need to.
01:16:49Okay.
01:16:50So, um, this is another good question.
01:16:53Um, I'm curious about how we categorize podcasts in particular.
01:16:57I have a podcast that is technically news commentary criticism, but we also insert ads
01:17:02before, during, and after the podcast.
01:17:04Does that mean my podcast is now categorized for commercial use or are the ads and the content
01:17:10of the podcast considered separate?
01:17:11Well, it, it does, it does, if you, it, yes, in short, it is a pro pro pro pro it's commercial
01:17:22in the sense that you, you've got, you, you get revenue from the ads that are, that appear.
01:17:26I assume you get a, you know, uh, you get, you get a piece of the ads.
01:17:31Is that correct?
01:17:32I'm assuming that's correct.
01:17:33Um, so it is commercial, but again, just because it's commercial doesn't mean you can't do it.
01:17:38But if your podcast is otherwise not infringing, it doesn't matter.
01:17:42You know, if you, if you don't have, you know, infringing material in there, uh, it doesn't
01:17:46matter whether it's commercial or not.
01:17:49Okay.
01:17:50So this one was a follow-up to the, using a still footage or a still, you know, a picture
01:17:55of, uh, of a video or, um, in like a blog or something.
01:18:00Uh, he said, I'm wondering if we can do the same with footage from a sports game.
01:18:04For example, would I be allowed to post a still frame of a particular play from a football
01:18:08game in order to comment on what happened during the play for an article about the game?
01:18:14I'd be real careful with the sports leagues because they just jealously regard, jealously,
01:18:19um, protect their stuff.
01:18:22And so if you're using photos from the NFL or things like that, you know, their NFL, you
01:18:27know, from an NFL authorized film using a clip from it.
01:18:30Um, I think that, I think that's, uh, problematic.
01:18:34I mean, what's it, well, I guess my question is, what is your common practice when you, when
01:18:38you do a story about a game, you know, you know, when you did reports on, on the, uh, the
01:18:45Superbowl or things like that, what, what did you do?
01:18:48Did you, you might've had some permissions to use things, but did you just post, post random
01:18:53photos that were like that from clips from the game?
01:18:55Oh, are you asking me?
01:19:01Oh, I, I guess I was at, I'm asking the question.
01:19:04Sorry.
01:19:05That was, that was my question.
01:19:06If I can jump in real quick.
01:19:07Yeah, go ahead.
01:19:08Hi, this is Matt.
01:19:09Um, yeah.
01:19:10So like, it would be like, uh, say a film study about, uh, a football game.
01:19:14Like there's a play, like here's where they lined up.
01:19:17We circle this guy.
01:19:18This is where the receiver is going to run.
01:19:19And, you know, something like that.
01:19:21Like, I was just wondering if it would be fair use if we were just commenting on one
01:19:25particular play from a game.
01:19:27Cause I was just wondering if we could liken that to a snippet from a movie or something
01:19:31like that.
01:19:31You know, something like that.
01:19:33I mean, that's, if you're commenting on, you know, you were commenting on the, the, the,
01:19:40the broadcast with, you know, or if you were, if you were commenting on that snippet and
01:19:45how they, how they circled and how, you know, what they said and criticizing it, that would
01:19:49be one thing, but if you were, if, if you're just using it to, for, for its own sake to
01:19:55demonstrate, you know, and as an excerpt from the game, I think that would be a problem,
01:19:59frankly, again, in the context of the fact that the leagues jet, like the NFL are really
01:20:05aggressive about, about going after infringers.
01:20:09Um, so, and I think, I think that could potentially be a problem.
01:20:13Um, okay, so we have, when creating a commercial for a cover or a tribute band performance,
01:20:20can we use audio of the original band in the ad?
01:20:23Can we use audio of the tribute band playing the music in the ad?
01:20:29Well, you can't use the original material.
01:20:32I mean, that, that's, that seems clear.
01:20:34Um, for the, uh, the tribute band, if you have, you know, if you have permission,
01:20:43I, you know, if you have permission from the band or, you know, or their ad, whoever promoted
01:20:49them.
01:20:53But this, it sounds like they would be using this to make money.
01:20:56So for example, they're creating an advertisement or a commercial that Beasley is going to profit
01:21:02from.
01:21:03So I would say, yeah, I, yeah, no, thank you for, for kind of recasting it.
01:21:07Yeah, no, I think not.
01:21:09I think, you know, cause there's a composition, the musical composition that you have to do.
01:21:13I think that's, you know, technically would be, and then you'd be syncing it to a promotion.
01:21:18I don't think you could do it.
01:21:20I, I, I think it would be inviting and there'd be a real, it'd be very risky to do it.
01:21:25Okay.
01:21:25So, um, I think we just have a few more and then we can let everybody sign off.
01:21:29But, um, what if you find a funny blooper from a national TV anchor or local anchor?
01:21:35Can you play that on the air or a funny blooper?
01:21:38Yeah.
01:21:39So for example, somebody says like something funny, like they accidentally think, you know,
01:21:44they say, I don't know, whatever, whatever.
01:21:47I can't come up with something right now, but funny, maybe like that, what I just did.
01:21:51And then somebody starts airing it and he's like, Oh, look at this person.
01:21:54She can't speak.
01:21:55Well, if it's like, it was something that was sort of noteworthy that someone made a
01:21:59big flub, you know, and you see this every so often, it's a big flub on the air and, you
01:22:04know, people are writing about it as the flub, it's sort of a news, it's newsworthy.
01:22:07It's, I think, you know,
01:22:09They're commenting on it.
01:22:10So I don't think that it would be a problem because they're making fun of it.
01:22:14I'm sorry.
01:22:14I don't think it would be a problem because they're just commenting on it and they're making
01:22:17fun of it on their own.
01:22:18Exactly.
01:22:19Exactly.
01:22:19Um, okay.
01:22:20So fair use, um, if someone uses the widely distributed meme of Bernie Sanders and others,
01:22:27but write something on it, which puts him in a bad light personally or politically, can
01:22:31they be prosecuted?
01:22:36That's really, I mean, on one level is a public figure, um, you know, and I'm sure people have,
01:22:43I'm sure if I, if you were to scour the net, you would find lots of unflattering things on
01:22:47there.
01:22:47Um, if it's defamatory, if it's knowingly false, they could be like, he's a kid toucher.
01:22:54I didn't know that that was a joke.
01:22:55Like that was me just giving an example, everyone.
01:23:00But, you know, but if, uh, if they're using, I, I, if they're using the photograph itself,
01:23:08you have to, it just kind of goes to what you're writing.
01:23:10I mean, if it's knowingly false, that's one thing.
01:23:13If it's just sort of a commentary, some, some smart-alecky thing, well, not necessarily
01:23:17a problem.
01:23:18And I think this is going to be my last one.
01:23:20So if somebody, if I miss somebody's question and they still want to ask, feel free to ask
01:23:24it, but I'm going to, this is my last one.
01:23:25Can you explain what is covered in a sync license, please?
01:23:28I don't know how long that's going to take you to, I mean, not long, actually, a sync
01:23:33license is covered.
01:23:34If you want to synchronize music to a, um, uh, say if you want to synchronize musical performance
01:23:41to a, um, uh, to a movie or a video or a commercial for that matter, it's taking the recording.
01:23:50You say it, Beatles, let it be.
01:23:52And you want to put that on a commercial, you need a sync license to do that.
01:23:55It's not covered by ask FBMI as, as opposed to just broadcasting the song.
01:23:59You want to sync, you want to synchronize the license to some other type of production,
01:24:05usually, usually video or audio production.
01:24:08You know, that's what musicians love when their songs get picked up by movies, because
01:24:11they get this extra sync license for it and they get the royalties for that.
01:24:16Jamie, can I, can we just have Lou define one more thing before we close?
01:24:20Yeah.
01:24:20Which is, um, we often report on things that we've seen on, um, uh, news stories.
01:24:26We may want to take a quote from some, somebody that, uh, said something in an article on Vanity
01:24:31Fair included in a commentary or blog post that somebody's written.
01:24:36While I know that there's no specific word count, can you frame for us when you are taking
01:24:42something from another article, how, what the quantity is that it is more.
01:24:48Or it is safer than not.
01:24:52Is there a way that you can.
01:24:53Well, I, you know, I wish I could say like, okay, four words, you know, only four words
01:24:57and no more than four words.
01:24:58I, I can't do that.
01:25:00You know, it goes to the nature of the quote.
01:25:02You want to capture the essence of what you know more than is necessary to convey.
01:25:07You know, that you're, you're writing, if you're writing a critique of say something
01:25:10that, you know, whatever author wrote in Vogue or New York or somewhere else, um, you know,
01:25:16if the entire quote, say it's a paragraph or, you know, a few sentences describing, he
01:25:22described, you know, Hillary Clinton this way and, you know, three or four sentences,
01:25:27all of that is, that's what, what he said.
01:25:29And that's what you're writing about.
01:25:31But if you were to write like extra, throw in a couple extra paragraphs above it, a couple
01:25:35extra paragraphs below it, that were just sort of narratives compared to the quote or
01:25:39some, or, or, or just that would be a little bit too much.
01:25:43I would think you just have to use common sense, truthfully use common sense.
01:25:48What are you, you know, what are you trying to say?
01:25:50What are you trying to illustrate?
01:25:51Go to what you're talking about, that quote, and then move on, you know, but just don't,
01:25:58you know, don't use any more than you can, you know, be judicious, be, just be careful.
01:26:05If you have a question, you know, call, you know, call Jamie.
01:26:10Okay.
01:26:11So unless somebody had a question that I did not ask for you and you still want it asked,
01:26:15feel free.
01:26:16Now is the time.
01:26:17Otherwise, I'll give it a second.
01:26:20Okay.
01:26:23Lou, thank you so much.
01:26:24You're welcome.
01:26:25And like I said, I'll send you guys these slides.
01:26:29Probably after the next session of this training, because I don't know how to do it separately.
01:26:35So I'll just resend it.
01:26:37Anyway, thanks, Lou.
01:26:38It was really nice having you.
01:26:40Thanks.
01:26:41This has been fun.
01:26:41Thanks a lot.
01:26:42Good to see everybody.
01:26:43Bye.
01:26:43Bye-bye.
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