Lt Gen A.K. Bhatt (retd), DG, Indian Space Association speaks with Col Anil Bhat (retd.) on new space-age opportunities for India's armed forces | SAM Conversation - video Dailymotion

South Asia Monitor

Lt Gen A.K. Bhatt (retd), DG, Indian Space Association speaks with Col Anil Bhat (retd.) on new space-age opportunities for India's armed forces | SAM Conversation

Transcript

00:00Welcome to SAM Conversation, a program of South Asia Monitor. Today, we are going to

00:13discuss the new space age opportunities for India's armed forces. And for this discussion,

00:22it's my pleasure to welcome my namesake, Lieutenant General Anil Bhatt, Retired, who

00:30is the Director General of the Indian Space Agency. I think ISRO, the Indian Space Research

00:39Organization, has made some great strides in the past couple of decades. And considering

00:47the kind of problems we had in the past of not really getting a worthwhile political

00:59backing from the governments in earlier decades, and also a lot of pressure, sanctions from

01:11foreign powers, I think we have done tremendously well. And ISRO has proved itself to be an

01:25organization which has not only reached out with modest resources, but has been a great

01:37carrier for foreign countries also to send their products into space. Without delving much,

01:51I'll request General Anil Bhatt to bring us up to date with the latest.

02:00Sir, I'll go into a few very interesting and important things which have happened in India

02:09and in the world. Of course, to start with, I should talk of ISRO, which had a very humble

02:17beginning, where they used to launch sounding rockets. And in 1963, the first sounding rocket,

02:25which we launched from Thumba, was borrowed from the Americans. Some explosive for it was

02:33given by the French. And interestingly, it was carried in a Soviet helicopter to that location.

02:39Great.

02:40So, we literally had a cooperation of three different space nations, space powers at that

02:48time to help us. But as you know, just six years after that, the Americans landed on the moon. So,

02:57you can see the gap which ISRO had with the Americans. But the success story is that last

03:04year, Chandrayaan-3, with a landing on the southern hemisphere of the moon, is the first

03:12to have a soft landing there. This is how fast in technology, in space, ISRO has brought us. It's

03:22been a great achievement done on a very frugal budget. We know about Chandrayaan, we know about

03:30the Aditya mission, we know about our mission to Mars, all of them very unique. Technology at the

03:39lowest cost to achieve the best. Now, one thing which happened around 2000 in the world was, as

03:46they call it, the new space age, where NASA, and even in Europe, the government started opening

03:55space to private players. And that brought in new kind of industrialists, very imaginative

04:03industrialists in the West. And the leaders of that were Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and the owner

04:11of Virgin Galactic. They were the ones who really brought space and as of today, in competition,

04:20they are even ahead of NASA. While this was happening in the world, in India also, in 2020

04:27June, the Prime Minister took a very bold historic decision. And what the decision was that he

04:35announced that now space in India, which was a static sector, will be opened to private players.

04:45From his announcement to today, there have been great strides which have taken place.

04:51Firstly, we have a space policy, which is the most forward looking policy

04:57in the world. In fact, it allows non-government entities, basically meaning public sector,

05:04private sector and startups to do everything in space, be it in communication, be it in navigation,

05:11be it in ISR. And even the last thing what it allows is asteroid mining and landing on the

05:18moon if private players can do it. So this is what the government has opened space to the private

05:24players too. Along with it, they opened an organisation, a new organisation called InSpace,

05:32which is the regulator and promoter and authoriser of anything to do in private

05:40or space. Fortunately in this, my organisation, Indian Space Association, was also formed around

05:48the same time after the Prime Minister's decision. And what we could do with the Ministry of Defence

05:54was lay down 75 defence space challenges. What were they? They were the aspirations of the military,

06:04of the armed forces, of what do they require in future, be it in communication, be it in P&T,

06:12be it in ground stations. They laid down 75 different things which they wanted to. And why

06:19are they called defence challenges? Because they are under a scheme called IDEX, where 1 crore,

06:2610 crore or even 25 crore are given to whoever wins the challenge. And this is a permission for

06:33co-production. Now from 2000, when the private sector was not there, or if there were any

06:42suppliers to ISRO, they had no idea what did the defence forces require. To 2022, when the Prime

06:50Minister announced these 75 defence challenges, every private player in India is aware of what

06:57the defence forces require. Things like launch on demand, that is called responsive launch.

07:05And what it means is that as soon as a war starts, there is a particular area which the

07:12defence forces want to see, maybe some forward area of Leh in Ladakh by the army, or some spot

07:19maybe in Malacca Strait by the Navy. Immediately rockets could be launched, satellites will be

07:27launched to look over that area. Now that capability is being developed along with

07:33private space. So what has happened in the last 4 years is the government has laid down great

07:40opportunities for private players. The defence forces have been able to declare and lay down

07:47on the table what do they require, what do they expect from the industry. Along with that,

07:53the famous PSLV and GSLV are now in future...

08:00If you could please expand on the abbreviation.

08:07Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle and GSLV, Geo Satellite Launch Vehicle.

08:15These are vehicles, the PSLV has a certain capacity, GSLV has more capacity. But the

08:23workhorse of India is the PSLV, which has had more than 50 successful launches. And

08:31till today it is going on. Now the next five PSLVs which will be made are being made in

08:38collaboration with the private sector. HAL and L&T has been given a contract to make the first

08:46five PSLVs. It is a contract of 850 crores. And the next step is the GSLV, which is the biggest

08:54launch vehicle India has, will also be made by public-private partnership.

09:00And in future, the next launches for the next five to eight years will all be done in the

09:07private domain. Two years back, ISRO also found another small rocket, a new launch vehicle was

09:17made that is called the SSLV, Small Satellite Launch Vehicle. Because now the requirements was,

09:26a PSLV or a GSLV is like a bus. It has a number of satellites in it, and those satellites are

09:34launched. Like India, the largest number was 106 satellites, which was a record for a long time.

09:41A total largest number of satellites being launched by one launch vehicle. But in modern

09:47times, there are requirements by different companies to launch their satellites in a short

09:52time, and launch at different heights, maybe in the low Earth orbit, the middle of medium Earth

09:58orbit or in the geosynchronous orbit. So now SSLV is the preferred vehicle, a smaller vehicle. And

10:07so SSLV was launched successfully by ISRO. And now this technology is being transferred to the

10:13private sector, that they can commercialize it. So, what ISRO has done is, they have launched

10:22we are looking in the future from the private sector is, to be a supplier for the military,

10:29for the defense forces, as well as be a global supplier. Also, yes.

10:37No, I thought let's, we can link that up. On 8th October, this year, 24, the Cabinet Committee for

10:47Security headed by the Prime Minister, Mr. Narendra Modi, approved of phase three of the

10:54space-based surveillance, which involves launching of 52 satellites along the borders of China and

11:03Pakistan. And out of these 52, 52 will be low Earth orbit and geosynchronous orbit.

11:1321 satellites will be made by ISRO and 31 by private companies. Am I right?

11:20Yes. So, I would like to expand on this. Firstly, the government's aim now is to create

11:32capabilities in the private sector, that they are able to meet the needs of the defense forces,

11:40as well as the commercial sector. While ISRO, as per the government's policy,

11:47is required to look at exploratory science, go to Moon, Mars and beyond. After ISRO has made

11:57developed a technology that needs to be transferred to the private sector.

12:01Now, SBS-3, as you were mentioning, it has a plan of 52 satellites, which are mostly for ISR,

12:12that is Intelligence, Surveillance and Racking. And these satellites will be of different kinds

12:19of sensors, Earth observation sensors, SAR sensors, which can see in day and night,

12:24and other kinds of hyperspectral sensors. Now, the faith of the government

12:31in the private sector is established by this, that out of 52,

12:3732 or 31 satellites will be made in the private sector.

12:44Yes. And what we hear is, they would be giving this contract to three to four companies.

12:50Because what has happened in the last three, four years,

12:53we have three companies which have already launched satellites. One of them is Pixel,

13:01another company is Dhruva, another company is Ajista. And there are more other companies,

13:07more companies ready to launch satellites. The plan is to give them this contract.

13:14Initially, they will be making a few satellites to see and test that they meet the requirements

13:19of the Indian Armed Forces. And then of course, the complete contract for 31 satellites will be

13:25given to them. So, in a few years, a constellation of satellites, which meets the requirement of the

13:33armed forces would be Indian made satellites with a large number in the private sector.

13:40What is, is there also a latest launch by, in November, on the GSAT-20 launched by SpaceX?

13:54Yes, sir. Now, one thing and if you have been following space,

14:02the capacities or the biggest satellite which can be carried by GSLV is limited to a certain

14:12amount of weight. Now, this GSAT-20, which is around 540 kgs, and especially to be launched

14:19in the geosynchronous orbit, this capacity is not there with the rockets, which we presently possess.

14:27Of course, in the future, we are planning for a new generation launch vehicle.

14:32But previously, whenever we have been having launch of this weight and this size of satellites,

14:39we've been doing it from Orion space, or from other foreign agencies. This time,

14:45the best offer we have got, and the most convenient has been from SpaceX. And that is why about

14:515 to 6 months back, ISRO decided to launch GSAT-20 or GSAT-N2 from SpaceX,

15:00which has been successfully launched.

15:02Is there, as far as, you know, in 2020, I think at Galwan, we had a problem of

15:14not knowing exactly what the Chinese are doing or when they were doing. Can you throw any light on

15:22whether with our present capabilities, we won't have such a problem?

15:30Definitely, sir. What you are saying is, of course, I do not know the specifics of that.

15:36But with the revisit time, you are right, because the revisit time which we have,

15:48and with the number of satellites we have, we cannot cover an area like Galwan with a revisit

15:55time of 10 minutes, 15 minutes, or in the best case persistent, that we continuously cover it.

16:02Like, just to explain it to you, sir, if one spot, say, lay has to be kept under observation,

16:10it will require eight satellites in the orbit, one after the other to cover one point. And that

16:18would be equivalent to the footprint of the satellite what it can see. If the area is larger,

16:23it is eight multiplied by two, three, four, or whatever. Now, when SBS-3 comes with 52 satellites,

16:32some in the geosynchronous orbit, seeing a larger area, some in the low Earth orbit,

16:38being closer, seeing a smaller area, but having more accuracy, a combination of this has been

16:44worked out scientifically. And by that, what would be at least an ideal requirement for having a

16:51better visit time, revisit time. And that is why this number of 52 has been achieved. Maybe it will

16:57require a little more in the future, but 52 is the bare minimum requirement. Okay. And lastly, I think

17:04if we go back to the test we had at Pokhran, what is it, it was called the Smiling Buddha.

17:17Yes, you are right. You are right, sir. We were able to, well, we were able to keep the Americans

17:28in the dark. I mean, it just turned out that they didn't know exactly what and when we did,

17:33what we did. Because they also did not have a revisit time, which was of lesser of five or

17:4110 minutes or 20 minutes or half an hour. Not enough time over the target. So, we knew the

17:50gaps between when the satellite was looking at Pokhran and not, and we took advantage of that.

17:55No, I think that was, that was an achievement. Yes, it was a brilliant idea by our scientists

18:02that time, our people who were doing this. And also it had the involvement of the Indian Army

18:07sappers. Yes. Well, anything further you would like to add, Gilbert?

18:18So, sir, today in any war which is going to get fought in the future,

18:25space is one to assist the three armed forces for better communication, for better navigation,

18:36as well as providing them an ISR, which is persistent, meaning you can look at the enemy

18:44anywhere on your border for 24 hours. And more and more with the war which has took place in Ukraine,

18:52this has become very clear. Today, both sides are totally visible to each other because of

19:00the capabilities of satellites you have. In fact, even China on the South China Sea

19:06has a revisit time of 10 to 12 minutes. And that is why this capability is an opportunity as well

19:19as a challenge. Opportunity because you can see everything of the enemy from when he takes off

19:26from his mainland itself or a challenge because he can also see into whatever we are doing.

19:33And hence, much more smaller forces, spread out forces have to move anywhere on the border,

19:41be it the western border or the northern border. Another dimension which has now come into space

19:48and which we have to look at is private players have become critical elements of the space war.

19:56In Ukraine, Russian war, the capabilities of Ukraine were maybe one satellite,

20:04but they have in the ultimate taken much more advantage of space

20:09because a private player like Starlink would provide them communication when their communication

20:17was jammed. The entire communication of the Ukrainian army has been supported by a private

20:24player called Starlink. Similarly, ISR is being provided by three private companies called Maxar,

20:34Planet M, Okai. They are all three private companies. So, this is a new dimension of war

20:40in space where larger assets are being provided by private players. And that is why the development

20:47of private capability in India is equally important.

20:53Thank you, Jain Bhatt. Thank you for a very enlightening session on this very

21:03exciting period of achievements for us. Thank you.

21:11Thank you, sir. And it's always a pleasure to be there with South Asia Monitor

21:15and with the senior Anil Bhatt.

Lt Gen A.K. Bhatt (retd), DG, Indian Space Association speaks with Col Anil Bhat (retd.) on new space-age opportunities for India's armed forces | SAM Conversation

Category

Transcript

Recommended