Recognition of Palestine 'not response to 7 Oct, it's in response to what Israel's done since 7 Oct'

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00:00Spain, Norway and Ireland have today formally recognised a Palestinian state, those countries

00:06saying it is a step towards a two-state solution to the conflict. They're calling now on other

00:12allies to follow suit.

00:15It's now one of a few countries in the West to officially recognise Palestinian statehood,

00:20a landmark move Spain says is essential.

00:23The recognition of the state of Palestine is not only a matter of historical justice

00:27with the legitimate aspirations of the Palestine people, but it is also an imperative need

00:33to achieve peace.

00:35It comes nearly a week after Spain, Norway and Ireland decided to all recognise an independent

00:40Palestine, a step that triggered uproar from Israel's far-right government, with Prime

00:45Minister Benjamin Netanyahu describing the move as a reward to Hamas after several months

00:49of war.

00:50The Jewish state also recalled its ambassadors from the three countries and blocked Spain

00:55from providing consular services to Palestinians in the West Bank. Israel is accusing Madrid

01:00of helping Hamas, an allegation it fervently denies.

01:04The recognition of Palestine is not against anyone, least of all Israel. This decision

01:09reflects our absolute rejection of Hamas, a terrorist organisation who is against the

01:14two-state solution.

01:17Spain now joins more than 140 countries to recognise Palestine, including most of the

01:22global south, Russia, China and India. While no major Western powers has done so, Madrid

01:28wants to encourage neighbouring countries to follow suit. Britain, Australia and EU

01:33members Malta and Slovenia have all signalled that they could join, while France says it's

01:38not the right time to make the move.

01:41Palestinian officials see recognition as a crucial step towards a long-term resolution

01:46to the conflict with Israel. They also believe it will bolster a future administration for

01:50the occupied West Bank and Gaza.

01:53Well, to discuss the recognition by Norway, Spain and Ireland today of a Palestinian state,

01:59I'm very pleased to welcome to the programme Majid Bamiyeh. He's the Deputy Palestinian

02:04Ambassador to the United Nations. He joins us live now from New York. Hello to you, sir.

02:10First of all, just briefly tell us your reaction to this news today.

02:16It's an important news. The Palestinian people's existence has been denied by Israel. The Palestinian

02:22statehood has been now undermined by Israel for very long. And that's the proper response

02:28to say, if you want a two-state solution, there's two states. There's Israel and there's

02:32also Palestine. And Palestine needs to be recognised. The Palestinian people have a

02:36right to self-determination. They have a right to freedom. And nobody has a veto over this

02:41right. And we hope other countries will emulate the move by Spain, Norway and Ireland. Now,

02:47147 states around the world have recognised the state of Palestine.

02:51Well, as you say, this is, in the eyes of Spain, Ireland and Norway, a step towards

02:57the two-state solution. That is something that your government, the Palestinian Authority

03:01government supports. That's a vision that you have. So my question for you is, what

03:07steps now are you taking towards securing a two-state solution? To give you a tangible

03:12example, will the Palestinian Authority work in some way to govern Gaza once this war is

03:21over?

03:23We want to govern the occupied Palestinian territory to see it as a state freed from

03:29Israeli occupation. That, of course, includes the Gaza Strip. But then the priority is a

03:33ceasefire. And the entire world is calling for an immediate ceasefire. And what we're

03:37seeing is an Israeli military offensive against the order by the International Court of Justice,

03:43despite the arrest warrant request by the prosecutor of the ICC, despite the demands

03:50of the Security Council and the General Assembly. All of these are enemies of Israel now. All

03:54of these are al-Qaeda Semites. All of these are saying you cannot commit these crimes.

03:59You cannot take an entire civilian population as a target. You cannot destroy the entirety

04:04of the Gaza Strip. So Israel is doing everything to not make it possible for us to have an

04:09independent, viable Palestinian state and to destroy that perspective and to force Palestinians

04:15into displacement or destruction. And that needs to stop.

04:19You were very clear there at the beginning of your answer that for you, the vision is

04:23the Palestinian Authority would at some point govern both the West Bank and Gaza. But look,

04:29how much democratic legitimacy does the Palestinian Authority really have? I mean, long before

04:34this current war, Palestinians have been waiting for elections. There haven't been elections

04:38in the West Bank for what, more than 15 years. Mahmoud Abbas, your leader, profoundly unpopular

04:43among Palestinians. So do Palestinians really want you to govern the Gaza Strip once this

04:50all comes to an end?

04:53There should be Palestinian elections and Israel should allow them to happen also in

04:57Jerusalem. And then we will see what the people want. But that's why you need to provide people

05:02with a political horizon. Of course, it is not popular to stand for peace when Israel

05:07is committing massacres against your people. Of course, when we speak of the two-state

05:12solution, people look, you just show on the ground, people look around them and say how

05:17this Palestinian state now recognized by the entire world will become seriously independent

05:22given the Israeli policies. And we need to provide the response. And part of that response

05:26is to hold Israel accountable, to end its impunity. So it changes its policies. And

05:30then we will see what the Palestinian people believe in and what they want. And they should

05:35be able to express that. That's what the right to self-determination means, to be able to

05:39decide for themselves.

05:40Right. And as you've spelled out, as I've said as well, you're obviously no supporter

05:44of Hamas. You represent the rival government, the Palestinian Authority, based in Ramallah.

05:49But I'm interested in what you make of this argument that you and I are only having this

05:53conversation today about three European countries recognizing a Palestinian state because of

05:59Hamas, because of what Hamas has done, because of the attacks on October 7th that triggered

06:05this current war in Gaza. They have, whatever you think of Hamas, propelled the Palestinian

06:11issue on the world stage in a way that the PA has failed to do for years.

06:19Our role is to represent the rights of the Palestinian people. And we warned for years

06:23that if there's no political horizon, no answer, while Israeli colonization is advancing, while

06:30the siege of Gaza is advancing, there was a high risk that we would see these kind of

06:35explosion and situations happening. And unfortunately, you are right. The international community

06:40did not react. But I think what we're seeing today is not in response to the 7th of October.

06:45It is in response to what Israel has done since the 7th of October. It's what Israel

06:50has done in destroying the entirety of the Gaza Strip, in becoming a government for the

06:56settlers and benefiting the settlers, but also in response to our commitment to peace.

07:02And I think the announcements were very clear. They are in support of that Palestinian state

07:06committed to peace. But that requires Palestinian freedom.

07:12One last question for you. I know you're a French speaker. You appear often on our

07:16sister French channel, France 24 in French. And France has said, look, now is not the

07:23right time, in their view, to recognize a Palestinian state. France, though, has called

07:27for a ceasefire. Where do you think Paris stands today on the Palestine question?

07:34To be fair to the position of France, France voted in favor of our membership to the United

07:40Nations. And that was a critical vote in the Security Council and then again in the

07:44General Assembly. So we will see where France will stand on these issues. We hope that it

07:49will recognize the state of Palestine that would be in coherence with the historical

07:54position of France. And we call on all countries that haven't done so to recognize the state

07:58of Palestine immediately, to all states to stop shipping weapons to Israel, to promote

08:04peace, to take action against the colonization, and to end the situation in the Gaza Strip,

08:10to end this assault against the Palestinian people.

08:14Majid Bamieh, the Deputy Palestinian Ambassador to the United Nations, live in New York. Thanks

08:19very much.

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