- 7/23/2025
This episode of To The Point delves into the Special Intensive Revision (SIR) of electoral rolls in Bihar, a process that has ignited significant political controversy.
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00:00June 24th, 2025. The Election Commission issues a notification to begin SIR in Bihar, aiming to update voter lists for the upcoming Assembly polls.
00:15Scope of timing fuels controversy. Critics argue why the roll revision is needed right after a summary revision which concluded in January 2025,
00:26raising suspicions about political timing.
00:31Stringent documentation rooms. Voters added post-2003 must submit original documents proving parents' birthplace.
00:40Aadhaar and Russian cards are excluded.
00:46Skyrocketing discrepancies found.
00:48EC flags over 52 lakh voters as untraceable. Records 18 lakh deaths, 26 lakh shifts, 7 lakh duplicates.
01:01Opposition unites in protest.
01:03India Bloc parties, RJD, Congress, CPI, AIMIM, accuse the EC of disenfranchising migrants, minorities and the poor, calling this vote bandi.
01:15Public demonstrations in Patna. Rahul Gandhi, Tejas Viyadav and social activists lead multiple protest marches.
01:26Opposition MPs staging sit-ins, halting parliamentary business over the issue.
01:32Supreme Court challenge.
01:34ADR and political leaders file PILs challenging SIR as violation of Article 14.19.21 of the Constitution.
01:44Hearing now scheduled for July 28th.
01:49Tight deadlines and monsoon chaos.
01:51Critics highlight the impractical 30-day window of monsoons, risking exclusion of those without documents.
02:00NDA rumblings within.
02:02TDP, NDA ally writes to CEC demanding clarity that SIR isn't citizenship verification and seeking audit by CAG.
02:12Stakes ahead of polls, opposition warns exclusion could tilt caste, minority vote away from India Bloc, while EC frames it as a constitutional necessity.
02:27The EC calls it a routine clean-up.
02:30The opposition sees voter deletion by design, with the top court watching its intent under sharp scrutiny.
02:38Top focus on To The Point this evening.
02:46Good evening, you're watching To The Point.
02:47I'm Preeti Chaudhary and that is our top focus this evening.
02:51Our debate number one.
02:52But to Rodar, allow me to take you through the headlines.
02:54Inside details of what led to Jagdeep Dhankar's exit, government tried to dissuade ex-VP against opposition motion on Judge Varma.
03:07Dhankar expected centre to pressurize him against resignation.
03:10India Bloc MPs protest in Parliament complex against electoral roll exercise in Bihar.
03:23Both houses adjourned amidst continued ruckus.
03:25BJP targets Akhilesh Yadav over a meeting at a mosque.
03:35Question's wife dimples a tyre for not covering head.
03:38Samajwadi party chief accuses BJP of using religion as a weapon.
03:41India rejects claims of UK family on receiving wrong bodies of AI-171 victims.
03:53MES says mortal remains treated with dignity.
03:56Ads 2 adds it is ready to address any concern.
04:01Ghaziabad micro-nation scam.
04:08Man sets up fake embassies of fictional nations.
04:13Claims ties with Saborga, West, Arktika and Ladonia.
04:18Luxury watches, diplomatic number plates forged, ID ceased.
04:27Safety alert in Bangaluru.
04:29Six gelatin sticks found at bus stand.
04:31Karnataka cops and anti-terror squad carry out inspection.
04:41Big crackdown on terror.
04:43Gujarat ATS nabs four Al-Qaeda terrorists.
04:46Two held in Gujarat.
04:47One each arrested in Delhi and Noida.
04:59All right, a quick news break coming in.
05:03Top government sources have told India today that the India bloc, which has been protesting in parliament,
05:11especially today on the role revision exercise that is taking place in the state of Bihar.
05:18Well, on that ground, there will be no discussion in parliament.
05:21The government cannot respond on behalf of the election commission is what the government says.
05:26Therefore, no discussion in the house on the special revision role exercise which is taking place in the state of Bihar.
05:35The special intensive role revision will not be discussed in parliament.
05:39How can the government speak at the behest of the ECI is the excuse of the government to the India bloc allies who have banded together to protest this role revision that is taking place.
05:51So, net net, no discussion on SIR in parliament, something that the opposition has been demanding.
05:57I want to quickly cut across to my colleague, Piyush.
06:00Piyush, the opposition ranks banded together once again with placards protesting the special intensive role revision that is taking place in the state of Bihar,
06:10wanting a discussion in parliament.
06:12That now denied by the government.
06:15That's right, the sources in the government have confirmed to us, Preeti, that the discussion on SIR of Bihar cannot take place in parliament.
06:25Why?
06:26Because there is no representative of the election commission of India in parliament and government cannot respond on behalf of ECI.
06:32The sources have also maintained that the entire excise in Bihar is being carried out by the election commission of India.
06:38And if opposition wants to ask any kind of question from the election commission of India, then they should approach the ECI officials, not the government.
06:45The government also maintains that ECI is an independent body and it has no role in any sort of excise which has been carried out by ECI.
06:55That's why the discussion on SIR in parliament cannot take place, whereas the government has also made it very clear that it is very much ready to discuss any issue which concerns the government,
07:07Preeti, about operations in Lourdes or the trial government issue which the opposition is raising or the income tax bill which the opposition and other political parties wanted to have a discussion on.
07:16Okay, all right.
07:17Piyush, appreciate you joining us for that quick update there.
07:19So, no discussion on the floor of the House.
07:21Now, that will clearly be another issue which will stick where the opposition ranks the India bloc is concerned.
07:28Already today, lots of chaos where the parliament is concerned.
07:33Let's see what tomorrow brings at the back of this coming in, that the government is not going to allow any discussion in parliament.
07:39Meanwhile, not just the parliament in Delhi, the Bihar State Assembly as well.
07:44Massive logjam being witnessed over the special intensive role revision exercise that is taking place in the state of Bihar.
07:51Another day of monsoon session with no business conducted.
08:15Parliamentary proceedings being halted once again as the opposition staged a protest over special intensive revision of the electoral rolls in Bihar.
08:27Protests were witnessed both inside and outside the parliament premises.
08:33Opposition across party lines put a united front against the government with the members of parliament alleging
08:38So, it was an attempt by the election commission to curb the voting rights and benefit the BJP in elections.
08:45However, the exercise has been hailed by the NDA, which insists it is being conducted under the ambit of the constitution.
09:12A similar showdown of the electoral revision was witnessed in Bihar too,
09:36with Chief Minister Nitish Kumar and the leader of opposition Tejashvi Yadav sparring in the state assembly.
09:42Tejashvi Yadav questioning the transparency and fairness by the election commission in this exercise.
10:12In a quick rebuttal, the Chief Minister Nitish Kumar reminded Tejashvi of the jungle Raj in Bihar when he was a child.
10:28As the debate rages on over the SIR exercise, whether in the parliament or in the state assembly,
10:49it is the taxpayers bearing the burden of the stalled business.
10:56Bureau Report, India Today.
11:19You are joining us, we are going to give you just a two-minute time to put your points forward or your party perspective.
11:25Do that in that two-minute window.
11:26After that, the fader is going to fall on its own.
11:29I would like to begin with Sanju Verma.
11:31Sanju Verma, the fact is, yes, this is an exercise that is being carried out by the election commission of India.
11:36Having said that, the Bharatiya Janata Party, the allies where Bihar are concerned, including you many a times on this very panel,
11:43have made a very strong defense of this exercise that has been carried out in the state of Bihar.
11:50Therefore, it is political in nature.
11:53Why deny a political discretion in parliament?
11:56You know, Preeti, let's get one thing very clear.
12:01The opposition went knocking on the doors of the Supreme Court, saying we will abide by what the Supreme Court verdict is.
12:08And the Supreme Court unequivocally said that SIR is a democratic exercise.
12:14And the Apex Court said, if the election commission does not conduct SIR, who will?
12:19But the opposition continues to undermine the credibility of the chief election commissioner and his team.
12:24The Supreme Court also said that election commission has the power to do what it is doing.
12:32It could not have been clearer than that.
12:35There are some things where there is no gray.
12:36It's either black or it's white.
12:39And I'm sorry to say that the Congress and the entire Indy cabal, they are at loggerheads with each other.
12:46And seeing the writing on the wall, they are well aware that Bihar mein inka supra saf honne wala hai.
12:52So they've started pre-empting their defeat and started shedding copious tears.
12:57You know, I will just say one thing for the benefit of your audience.
13:00The election commission has said that as of 23rd July, 98.01% of the electors have been covered by way of the SIR exercise.
13:12I think that's a great start.
13:14Only 1.99% voters have to be covered by the SIR.
13:20And I want to ask the opposition.
13:22The SIR exercise showed us that 20 lakh voters were dead and still on the rolls.
13:2720 lakh voters have permanently migrated out of Bihar but were still on the rolls.
13:337 lakh voters were enrolled in Bihar and in a couple of other states also showcasing duplicity.
13:381 lakh voters are permanently untraceable.
13:4315 lakh enumeration forms have not been returned.
13:48I want to ask the Congress and its entire Garbari ecosystem.
13:52You want dead voters to go to the voting booth?
13:55You want people who migrated out of Bihar permanently to cast?
13:59Ma'am, your faders down.
14:01You know, two fundamental problems.
14:02I'll circle back to you on both.
14:03Number one, yes, as per the Election Commission data, 98% of the voters have submitted their forms.
14:10But that really doesn't mean anything.
14:12It's something that has been debated ad nauseum if the forms don't have the prerequisite documents along with them.
14:17Lots of other fundamental problems on how this exercise is being conducted, number one.
14:21And ultimately, number two, yes, the Supreme Court, you know, has given certain observation.
14:27But the observations cut both ways.
14:29Every political party is welcome to pick what it wants of these observations.
14:34Ultimately, 28th of July is when the Supreme Court hopefully will give its verdict on whether or not this exercise needs to be attached to the Bihar elections in three months' time.
14:47Therefore, Adil Singh Boparoy, the matter is already in the top court.
14:50Something that you've admitted, your party's admitted, that you will honor whatever the Supreme Court says.
14:56Yet, to constantly, you know, draw political mileage of an electoral process is something that the incumbent government, both in the center and the state, has criticized.
15:07And they have every right to do so.
15:09Preeti, this is a very sinister plot to disenfranchise lakhs of citizens of this country.
15:19And I think any person who is an iota of respect for our democratic traditions should be deeply alarmed by what's going on.
15:28Number one, it is virtually impossible for any entity to enumerate and prepare a voter list from the word zero for a population of nine crore people in a short span of four weeks.
15:46It is virtually impossible.
15:48Number one.
15:48Number two.
15:50Now, this is going to sound extremely, the BJP will not have anything to really respond to this.
15:57But as per the Bihar government's own data, only 2.5 to 4% of the residents of Bihar have a passport.
16:08And passport is one of the requirements in the 11 items for the purposes of this enumeration.
16:13Number three, the law of this land, the representation of People's Act, places an obligation on the election commission to indicate if X, Y or Z is no longer alive or should be struck down.
16:28Today, the government has turned the onus on its head.
16:31Today, the onus is not on the election commission of India.
16:34The onus is on the individual voters.
16:36Number four, what about lacks of those Bihari residents who are today in other states of the country for greener pastures, for employment opportunities, who undertake short-term migration?
16:51How will they file their forms?
16:53How will they fill in their enumeration receipts?
16:56So this exercise is designed to fail from the word go.
17:00But I think what is most sinister is the election commission of India and the BJP today are allies.
17:07They are allies in the pursuit and the objective of demolition.
17:11Adil, you know, we can't hear you anymore because we've given you that two-minute window.
17:14I want to also welcome Pawan K. Varma, General Secretary, Jansa Swaraj, who's joining us right now.
17:20But Mr. Varma, how do you look at this entire process?
17:23Your political outfit is new.
17:25There is a lot of intrigue attached to it.
17:27But having said that, what is the perspective of the Jansa Swaraj when we speak of this electoral exercise carried out in the state of Bihar?
17:38Thank you very much, Preeti.
17:41Jansa Swaraj has a very clear point of view.
17:44First of all, we don't necessarily disrespect the election commission.
17:49Having said that, we believe in a democracy.
17:55All political parties have the right to interrogate, question or seek clarifications from the election commission.
18:05What we have asked or sought clarification on are precisely those matters on which the Supreme Court raised a red flag.
18:18Incidentally, to say that the Supreme Court did not interfere in the work of the election commission
18:25is to misunderstand what the intent of the Supreme Court was.
18:33Of course, the Supreme Court will, as the apex court of the land,
18:39not arbitrarily intervene in what is the purview of an autonomous body under the constitution,
18:49which is the election commission.
18:52But when the hearing came up, the Supreme Court flagged three points,
18:57which is precisely what we are asking.
19:00Firstly, it asked the basic question,
19:05why certain identity proofs like Aadhaar, the voter card or a Russian card have been excluded?
19:14It's the first logical question that will strike you if you ask a voter to identify himself or herself
19:25because the 11 documents which the election commission has enumerated
19:30as proof that is valid are themselves based on the possession of an Aadhaar card.
19:37So it is ridiculous.
19:38But the Supreme Court flagged this point.
19:42Second, the Supreme Court raised the issue of timing.
19:46Now, why do I raise the issue of timing?
19:49I raise the issue of timing because in 2024, we had the parliamentary elections.
19:55There, a summary revision of the electoral rolls was carried out.
19:59The Bihar State Election Commission sent a report that this was done satisfactorily.
20:04On that basis, you had the national elections.
20:09A few months down the line, you say, now for Bihar, we need a special intensive revision, which is the SIR.
20:16We ask, what was the need?
20:20Especially in a state which has a population of over 13 crore people and an electorate of 8 crores.
20:29Even that, we say, it's the purview of the election commission.
20:32But then we say, if you had to do this exercise, why didn't you start it in February?
20:39Why didn't you start it in March?
20:40Fair point.
20:41Why should you start an exercise which is so humongous in size, so complex, so complicated in one of the most populated states in June?
20:52Fair point, sir.
20:52And do you know, Preeti, I want to put this on record, what is happening on the ground is a mockery of an actual well-enumerated list.
21:05Right.
21:06If you want me to stop, I will.
21:07I'll circle back to you, sir.
21:08Last point to make before.
21:10No, no, I'll circle back to you.
21:11I'm going to come right back.
21:12I just want to, you know, we were to get Mr. Pawan K. Varma on the other side.
21:16He's joined us in the panel.
21:17He wants to be a part of the panel.
21:19But this panel has, you know, to introduce him to our panel, we have a two-minute window for all our panelists.
21:25We gave you a minute extra there.
21:27I would hope the rest of the panelists would concede on the basis of seniority.
21:31I didn't know.
21:31We're going to go back to him.
21:33But that's fine, sir.
21:33I understand.
21:34You know, we were to get you on the other side, but no problem.
21:36But let's quickly move on.
21:37And I want to bring in our other panelists as well, and we'll go back to the BJP and the Congress spokesperson.
21:42Parimal Kumar, spokesperson, JDU.
21:45Your own MPs have come out and openly demonized this exercise.
21:52You have Mr. Yadav, Giridhar Yadav, who has come out and said that what is, you know, being carried out right now is an abomination.
22:00So it's not that your own people don't understand that, that there is an exercise which is problematic in nature.
22:07Priti, actually, this, the SIR, is a welcome mistake conducted by ECI, Election Commission of India.
22:14You know that the sovereignty in India is in the people.
22:19And the people excite the story between 24 to 24 to 26 of the Constitution.
22:25And who holds the right to cast the vote?
22:27It is the citizen of India.
22:29Under Article 324 of the Constitution, the Election Commission has the power to prepare election law.
22:34And under Section 21, the people's representatives and I think it is, mandates the Election Commission to prepare or revive the election law prior to Loksava election and that of assembly election.
22:47That's why Election Commission is doing it very successfully so far.
22:51But as far as the question of RG&E and Congress is concerned, you see, they are afraid of the popularity of our leaders in this fall.
23:00Actually, they are afraid of their defeat in the incoming assembly election because every type of party they try to particularly divert the attention of the people.
23:10Well, actually, they are, you know, you know, that in both houses and the parliament as well as in assembly.
23:16What is the scene in Bihar assembly today, actually, that it reflects the character of RG&E.
23:22RG&E and Congress, both are the same point.
23:27Actually, you see, as far as the question of Mr. Verma was saying, you see, about timeline.
23:32So, on 10th of July, Supreme Court clearly mentioned that the law not particularly provide any fixed timeline for the election commission to conduct in 2003, where SRF was conducted.
23:47The entire exercise was concluded in 31 days.
23:50And so, it's being conducted this time also.
23:53On timeline, the Supreme Court clearly mentioned.
23:55And the way in which election commission will prepare the elections, based on the election commission, there should not be any interference of the political party in this context.
24:05But from time to time, you see, election commission, if there is any requirement, the election commission conveys the representative.
24:11Okay.
24:12But the fact is, Mr. Parimal Kumar, that the election commission, one thing that I would reckon is only fair,
24:18that all political parties are asking of the election commission, that instead of releasing source-based information,
24:23which has never happened in the history of this country, come out and hold a press conference, where all issues are addressed.
24:29At least, I think that is something, which I would reckon the BJP should also support.
24:33But Dr. Jayant Jigyasu, two minutes, sir, make your opening comments.
24:41We are very clear that it's not a special intensive revision.
24:45But voter exclusion drive with malicious intention to hamper the voting rights of the weaker section.
24:52It is very unprecedented that for the first time in the history, we are witnessing the practice that government is hell-bent on selecting its favorite public.
25:05Otherwise, public has been electing the government.
25:10So, we are aware of the fact that it will disenfranchise the weaker section, SC, ST, OBC, and minorities.
25:22And we haven't learned the relation of democracy from Abraham Lincoln.
25:26We belong to Bihar and Lechvi Gandharaj, you might have heard of.
25:30So, we know how to protect, how to defend, and how to preserve universal adult franchise.
25:41So, Tejasvi Adhavji has clearly and categorically stated that since that till the 25th of January 2025,
25:50was election commission sleeping, and suddenly it awoke and came up with the data that more than 18 lakh voters are dead.
26:02So, from where the ECI fetched such kind of data without visiting more than 50% household of Bihar?
26:12I belong to a family in which there are many teachers who have been a part of this election process.
26:17And the ECI has clearly said that you have to provide a receipt, that is Pavati form.
26:28Fair point.
26:30And my family hasn't received. No BLO has given it.
26:35So, this is total travesty of the system and total mockery.
26:39This has become a joke.
26:42Redressal is going to be a huge problem, Sanju Verma, along with the fact that the number that you quoted,
26:4798% might have submitted the forms, but without the documents, what does this really mean?
26:51Number one.
26:52Number two, you're leaving absolutely no point for redressal.
26:55Pawan Ji did make solid points, which even the Supreme Court has picked up.
27:01You know, Preeti, first and foremost, with no offense to you,
27:05when you say Sanju Verma, so what if the SIR exercise has covered 98.01% of the voters,
27:12it means nothing.
27:13Preeti Chaudhary or Sanju Verma do not have the locus stand-eye to decide
27:17what is nothing and what is substantive.
27:19The election commission is a constitutional position,
27:22while Article 324, 325, 326 of the constitution,
27:27they know more than Preeti Chaudhary, Sanju Verma,
27:29and everybody else on this panel put together.
27:31And let me quote Justice Sudhanshu Dhulia in his verdict on the 17th of July,
27:36though I know there's a hearing again on 28th of July,
27:38because you said, you know, Supreme Court of Judgment can be read both ways.
27:43No, Preeti.
27:43I repeat, there are some things which are either black or white.
27:46You may choose to see a gray in it.
27:48I don't.
27:49Justice Sudhanshu Dhulia said,
27:50A free and fair election based on universal adult franchise is the basic and the election commission under Article 324
27:59has the powers to supervise, direct, and control the election process.
28:06The words used were supervise, direct, and control.
28:10The Supreme Court also applied the powers of the election commission, white Article 326.
28:16So I repeat, Preeti, you and me cannot be second-guessing the bona fides of the election commission.
28:21But let me tell the RGD.
28:23What did Tejasvi Yadav say?
28:26Inke sutra ko ham mutra maamte hai.
28:28I'm sorry to use such language,
28:30but that is what a CNN aspirant had to say about the election commission.
28:34And this is the same Tejasvi Yadav who said,
28:36Mukhtar Ansari amar rahe.
28:38You know, this is the law that is actually giving lectures on the credibility of the election commission.
28:44Ulta, Chor, Kotwal ko, Dante.
28:46And why is no one talking about this?
28:49Kishan Ganj with a 16% Muslim population had Aadhaar saturation of 126%.
28:55Which means for every 100 people, there are 126 Aadhaar cards.
28:59Iske barare me thwoda baat kariye.
29:00Then Katiha, 123% Aadhaar saturation.
29:05Alright, ma'am, your time is up.
29:07I'll come back to you.
29:08Ma'am, when I say it means nothing,
29:09I only say it from what the election commission said this exercise is all about.
29:15Which is documentation which goes beyond an Aadhaar and a ration card.
29:19So if those documents are not attached,
29:22what does it really mean then?
29:23What does this exercise mean?
29:25It's a question I think was just genuine enough to be asked right now.
29:28Right?
29:28And what the Supreme Court said, you and I both know,
29:32it also castigated in one manner the EC where it spoke about the Aadhaar as well.
29:38I'll circle back to you and we'll have this conversation.
29:40I want to bring in, you know, Adil Singh Bhoparo and we'll go back to Pawanji right after that.
29:45Adil, there are points which the EC has made,
29:48which the current incumbent government has made.
29:51Nobody is questioning the legality of this process.
29:53You might question the morality of it.
29:55But do you comprehend and understand that this was much needed?
30:00I think one needs to understand this issue very objectively and minus the din,
30:06the lies, the arrogance and the brazenness of the BJP.
30:09When the state or its instrumentality extinguishes the right to vote of a citizen on the eve of the elections,
30:18he must have a remedy to challenge that.
30:21Today, assuming even 1% of the voter is struck off the electoral rolls,
30:27his name is effaced from the voter list,
30:30what remedy does he have?
30:32This effectively means that he is presented with a fait accompli
30:35and can't vote in the elections which are scheduled in October or November.
30:40Because by the time the appellate authority would decide his case,
30:43the elections will be over.
30:45Point number one.
30:47Point number two, it was also the Honourable Justice Dhulia who said
30:50that if you ask me for one of these 11 documents,
30:53even I may not have it.
30:55So the BJP should not selectively quote arbiter dicta which goes on in quote.
30:59Number three, this entire exercise Preeti is masqueraded in the garb of purifying
31:08or ensuring the integrity of the electoral rolls.
31:12But in reality, it is creating hurdles for people to vote,
31:17for people to register and for people to vote.
31:20I will give you one illustration which any right-thinking, objective person will not disagree.
31:25We in the state of Punjab have a lot of migrants from Bihar during the paddy season.
31:31They migrate to the state to help on the fields.
31:34They undertake this migration for four to eight weeks.
31:37Now what about those voters?
31:39They are permanently domiciled in Bihar.
31:43What about those voters?
31:44You expect these voters to carry their identity IDs to Punjab?
31:50And how will they upload this data?
31:52There are, I think, multiple practical difficulties
31:56which have been completely overlooked by the Election Commission of India.
32:01Your time is up, sir.
32:02But the fact is, we've had correspondence on ground
32:05and right after this debate, we're going to play another set of ground reports
32:08that have been filed in by my colleagues who've spanned across the state of Bihar
32:12over the last three weeks, encapsulating, detailing, documenting
32:16the issues regarding the special role revision, number one,
32:21and also a huge chunk which is actually welcoming the role revision as well.
32:26You know, at one end, there is a huge constituency in the state of Bihar
32:30which think this is a welcome move and it should have happened, if not now, earlier.
32:34Nobody is contesting that.
32:36It's the manner in which it is being conducted, number one, which is being contested
32:40and the constitutionality of it.
32:43Because you've had, Pawanji, elections in the state of Maharashtra,
32:46you've had elections in the state of Haryana, in the state of Delhi,
32:49where huge mandates have been given to a particular government
32:53or a particular political outfit on the basis of what were the old electoral rolls.
32:58True, Preeti.
33:05So, let me be clear.
33:07We are not against the cleansing or the clarification of the voters list.
33:16Our question is, if that indeed was the laudable intent of the election commission,
33:22this entire exercise should have been far more transparent
33:27and far more accommodated in a space of time
33:33that would have provided voters the right to be properly registered
33:39and a bigger window to have rectifications made.
33:44Our first concern is the timing, the timing given for this exercise.
33:50And I'm a little surprised that while most parties have at some point or the other
33:58raised issues with regard to the election commission,
34:02sometimes not as criticism but as constructive suggestion,
34:07invariably the BJP stands with the election commission.
34:11It has no questions to ask.
34:13It has no questions to ask about whether what it's doing is practical or feasible on the ground.
34:19But let that be as it is.
34:21Justice Dhulia said that this exercise goes to the root of democracy
34:30and the power of people to vote.
34:33And then the Supreme Court asked those three questions.
34:36I ask you, you carried out a program and please go to the ground in Bihar.
34:41Look at the manner in which the enumeration is being done.
34:44It's one thing to release statistics by the election commission.
34:48Who is there to check the statistics or the reliability of how the BLOs have acted?
34:54You ask for time and date or place of birth.
34:59According to the 2011 census, 50% of women in Bihar are still illiterate and 40% of the men are illiterate.
35:08Where are they going to produce these documents?
35:12Fair point.
35:13Within the space of time you have given them.
35:16Fair point, sir.
35:17So, these are questions which are practical.
35:20Fair point.
35:20All right, we've lost JDU and the RJD.
35:22I want to go back to Sanju Verma, Adil Singh Bhopuro and we'll come back to Pavanji.
35:25Two minutes each to put forth your final arguments
35:28because ultimately it's a matter which is in the top court of the country
35:32and that decision would be abided by all political outfits.
35:36There was a different political battle at play,
35:39not just in Bihar, in the parliament today, in the national capital as well.
35:44And then there is a larger question.
35:46That even if one person is disenfranchised, does it cut it?
35:51Sanju Verma, your two minutes start now.
35:53Final comments, ma'am.
35:53You know, I'm appalled.
35:56Every evening, the opposition undermines the credibility of the Supreme Court,
36:01the election commission, the electoral process
36:03and after that they have the audacity to say
36:06the freedom of speech is being crushed.
36:09No, you guys have freedom of speech but you don't know when to stop.
36:13Let me say this.
36:14Tenangarth elections, barely two years back, 2023
36:18and this is what Sanju Verma is talking from, you know, some right-winger magazine.
36:23It is from the wire which has found nothing good in India since 2014.
36:27It says 22 lakh.
36:30How many?
36:3022 lakh voters were deleted ahead of Tenangana Assembly elections in 2023.
36:37The Congress won, BJP lost.
36:38It's a small state.
36:4747,000 voters were deleted in 2022.
36:51Rahul Gandhi was prancing up and down after the Himachal Vittri.
36:55We said we will do introspection.
36:57We didn't say anything about the election commission.
37:00We didn't say anything.
37:00We didn't say anything.
37:00We didn't say anything.
37:01We didn't say anything.
37:01We didn't say anything.
37:01Karnataka have sent the elections in 2023.
37:033.2 lakh voters deleted.
37:07Did the BJP weep?
37:08Karnataka was swept by the Congress party.
37:10BJP lost.
37:11But we said it's a fair election.
37:13We accept the defeat.
37:14The problem with the opposition is they have stopped accepting the fact that Janta inke saaf nahi hai.
37:22And let me remind Mr. Verma very humbly, the SIR exercise is in line with the representation of People's Act 1950-51, in line with the registration of electoral rules 1960, in line with Article 326 of the Constitution,
37:40and the same Supreme Court which you keep open, Justice Sanjeev Khanna and former CJI Chandrachur said,
37:47EVMs are fair and transparent.
37:50Each time you question the EVMs, you are creating unnecessary fear and skepticism.
37:55Wo ba to abhool gai?
37:56Two minutes, Adil Singh Bhoparoy, final comment, sir.
38:00The problem with the BJP is, you know, what the BJP spokesperson just said is symptomatic of the larger malaise which the BJP today suffers.
38:10Which is arrogance and their ability to listen to a contrarian point of view or to improvise for that matter.
38:18At the end of the day, we are all stakeholders on the democratic canvas.
38:24Mr. Verma, the Congress party, so many other political leaders have ideas and suggestions which will streamline the entire process.
38:31But a political party and their spokespersons who are so arrogant, who love the sound of their own voice, are unable to comprehend that there are systemic issues in the manner in which they are carrying out an exercise and undermining democracy in the world's largest democracy.
38:50Number one, number two, if your Russian card is acceptable proof for obtaining government benefits, why is it being disabused and denied for the purposes of registration of your voter ID?
39:06If your Aadhaar is sufficient proof to obtain and register multiple government documents, including the passport, then why is it being denied for the purposes of the voter list?
39:18When your voter ID itself is sufficient proof that you voted in 2020, that you voted in 2024, then why is it being denied as a required proof for the purposes of the current exercise?
39:34Number three, please understand what they are doing.
39:37They are creating a fresh list and the law is very clear and that is why I want to highlight on the legality of the process.
39:48The onus is on the state when it wants to remove an individual from the voter list.
39:54You can't put the onus on the individual.
39:58Okay.
39:58And let's not kid ourselves.
40:01Let's not lose sight of the fact.
40:02Sir, your time is up.
40:03Two minutes to Mr. Pavan Verma.
40:05Because, you know, one thing is there, Sanju Verma.
40:07You know, I'll give you 10 seconds in the end.
40:09Because the fact is, the sheer fact that you can register.
40:1239 lakh plus voters were registered in Maharashtra on the basis of what?
40:16The Aadhaar.
40:17And then you change the goalpost when Bihar comes in.
40:19But two minutes, sir.
40:21Mr. Verma, go ahead.
40:22Thank you, Priti.
40:27I think Sanju Verma Ji lost the point I was making.
40:32We are not questioning the legality of the Election Commission.
40:36But we are questioning the methodology of the Election Commission and we have every right to do it.
40:42And so does the BJP and sometimes it should.
40:45Secondly, one wrong does not justify another.
40:49If there was mischief laid in Telangana, I condemn it.
40:57But that doesn't mean that if there is the likelihood of mischief in Bihar or a disenfranchisement of a genuine voter, it is right.
41:07Thirdly, I want to mention there is a peculiar situation of Bihar.
41:13Priti ji, please bear my point.
41:15In 30 years of Nitish Lalu and their accessories.
41:21The current position as per the 2023 caste survey laid on the floor of the Assembly by the current Chief Minister Nitish Kumar is that only 3% of the entire population of Dalits have passed 12th class.
41:40Only 5% of the entire population of the Ati Pichadas have passed 12th class and only 7% of the Muslims have passed 12th class.
41:51In such a state, when you are carrying out a complex enumeration exercise with new documentation, you have to be practical.
42:01So, there is a third problem and I will finish before my time.
42:06That is of migrants.
42:07Bihar has the country's highest rate of outward migration.
42:13How do you get all the voters to register in time?
42:16So, in net-net, the situation reminds me of a couplet.
42:19All right, okay, sir, our producers has cut the final line of your couplet, but apologies there because you had a two-minute window.
42:33The fader goes down on its own.
42:34Ten seconds, Sanju Verma, because it's two is to one.
42:37You get ten extra seconds.
42:38Make your point, ma'am, and I'm going into a break.
42:40You know, Preeti, I just want to tell Rahul Gandhi one thing.
42:45If you don't believe India's electoral process,
42:48I have already said, where you have come from, where you have come from, I have come from Rai Bareli.
42:51And Priyanka Vardra, if you don't believe the EVN and election process, resign from Vainar, where you were elected, we will stop.
43:00All right, that couplet you wanted to complete, you can complete the last two lines of it, Mr. Verma, and then I'm going into a break.
43:06Sir.
43:07I said, unhi ka şehir, wahi muddai, witness, wahi munsif, judge, toh mujhe malum ta mera kasur nikalega.
43:19All right, we are going to leave it at that because this is contentious and it's a debate that's going to be carried out multiple days ahead.
43:2628th is when the Supreme Court will hear in the various petitions challenging this very contentious electoral exercise.
43:37In Bihar, Seemachal, citizenship isn't being decided by a court, but by a form.
43:54And in Kishanganj, India's most controversial voter list clean-up is underway.
44:02This is a region where Muslims form 68% of the population.
44:07It borders Nepal to the north and is long alleged to host infiltrators from Bangladesh.
44:13But now, under the Special Intensive Revision Process, or SIR, election officials are going booth to booth, name to name, to separate Indians from foreigners.
44:25India today spent a week on the ground, tracking what locals call the suspect list.
44:38What we found was alarming.
44:40Forms are being held back.
44:42Some residents are under quiet investigation.
44:45In multiple suspect wards, India today met individuals who had only an Aadhaar or a voter ID, and no family or land records.
45:06When asked where he came from,
45:35he couldn't give a plausible answer.
45:38He couldn't give a plausible answer.
46:05We also encountered people who had no idea where they were from, or if they had any documents at all.
46:28It was the issue of the fact that people had not done, there was no public connection, and it could be the wrong one of the people.
46:35I don't know what to do anymore.
46:37You would call them at all?
46:40I don't know what to do now.
46:42But I think it's all about a little bit.
46:45You're the same kind of a huge loss?
46:48I don't know how to sell it, it's all about the people.
46:53I don't know what to do anymore.
46:55I don't know how many people are here, or how many people will quantify you?
47:05Do you see the people who have only a vote and the other documents?
47:09Do you have a problem?
47:11There are a lot of people in the city.
47:16There are 4-5 people in the city, it's a very good city.
47:20I don't know what I'm talking about.
47:50this is how waters are being segregated category one if your name is in the 2003 voter list you're
48:01cleared without any additional documents there is no suspicion category two if your parents name
48:08were in the 2003 list you need to submit proof of parentage again no inherent suspicion category
48:16three if neither you nor your parents were on the 2003 voter list every document you submit is put
48:23through intense scrutiny then you're under high suspicion India today met the block statistical
48:36officer a key coordinator in the revision drive to understand the process when we ask him about how
48:44they are identifying this is what he says after the pipes
48:53no one does not know that nobody knows how can they be able to know that nobody knows what
49:00they know not know that nobody knows how can they know that just the same you know that
49:09we have got something to collect the good
49:16and everything is the good
49:19We have got 3 good good good and so we have got 3 good good good
49:25What are your good good good good good?
49:28It was made by the Nildes.
49:32First, you would like to tell the saints about 2003.
49:34His name was already named.
49:41Then, we would like to tell the saints that the mother's name was 2003.
49:55Our father is talking about the name of our daughter list after the name of our daughter list.
50:01This is why our mother-in-law needs documents.
50:06The third thing is that the mother-in-law is not the name of her daughter list in 2003.
50:12That's right. How do you change the name of her daughter list?
50:15In 2003 it is not.
50:17However, if you can apply it, then you can apply it to your daughter list, then you can apply it to your mother-in-law.
50:27Another thing is that no mother-in-law or no mother-in-law is not the name of her daughter list,
50:34you can apply it to your daughter-in-law.
50:39You can apply it to your daughter.
50:44How many applications you have given to her daughter list?
50:47You have been talking about this, but you have been talking about it.
50:51Do-Go means that she has not given a document?
50:55Yes, we have not told you about it.
50:58Our mother-in-law is not the name of her daughter.
51:03That's why the two certificates are given.
51:09There are two certificates in her daughter.
51:12You can see that certificate.
51:14You can apply it to your daughter's daughter's daughter's daughter's daughter's daughter.
51:19And after the last 2-3 of you, they will go to her daughter's daughter's daughter.
51:24And what three books are you?
51:26I have three books.
51:27I have 14,16.
51:28And how do you get to these three books?
51:30How do you get to the point of getting that?
51:31Don't think bad about it.
51:32Our in-depth investigation into the current rule revision exercise in Bihar continues.
51:37You can catch all the ground reports right here on India Today.
51:40With that, it's a wrap on To the Point.
51:43But we do leave you with the latest promo of my new show, UNPolitics.
51:46Mr. Gaurav Gugoy.
51:51All right, see you upstairs.
51:54Welcome to Unpolitics, Gaurav Gagoye.
51:59You know, what's the term in Delhi, Titi?
52:02You know that, huh?
52:04You know that, huh?
52:05Absolutely.
52:06The Golgappas at Golmarket, did you meet those?
52:08Golgappas are my favorite.
52:09Is your wife being labeled an ISI agent?
52:12Well, I think people are smarter.
52:14There was some truth to this, would have uncovered by now.
52:16There's one thing I learned from the last Chharkhand election.
52:19There's one thing that I learned from my Jorahat elections,
52:21that sometimes people are smarter than politicians.
52:24Do you think Rahul Gandhi's speeches in parliament could be better prepared?
52:27Do you need an appointment to speak to Mr. Gandhi?
52:29From one part of a Sam, what are you craving today?
52:31What would be your lunch?
52:32You know, Ilish Mahesh with the mustard curry is just perfect.
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