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00:00Hour number three of Jones and Keefe, W-E-E-I Jones out.
00:03Rest of the week, Billy Laney has slid over.
00:05Justin Turpin now in the house for some pure hoops.
00:08Turp, how are you?
00:09What's up, boys?
00:10How are you?
00:10That was, of course, the voice of one Jalen Brown.
00:13He was at the Garden last night for the Caitlin Clark game.
00:16So was George Niang.
00:17You see that?
00:18Yes.
00:18The beef is behind them.
00:19Thank God.
00:20So we can all rest easy.
00:21Those guys don't hate each other.
00:22So we can embrace George Niang.
00:24Will George Niang even be on the team when the season starts?
00:26I think he will be.
00:27Okay.
00:27I think he will be.
00:28At this point, it seems like this is the roster that they're going to enter the season with.
00:32I think Brad Stevens made that rather clear the other day.
00:34They're still less than a half a million dollars over the second apron, and that's a move they can get under by just waiving J.D. Davis, and it's that simple for them.
00:41So I think this is kind of what they're going to enter the season with.
00:45I think they were actively shopping Niang and Simons and possibly even Hauser, but I'm not sure that was the case, the way Brad Stevens talks about Hauser.
00:52But it feels like this is what they're going to enter the season with, and they're comfortable as they will be.
00:56I think Brad Stevens pretty much admitted the frontcourt is going to be terrible, and they're just going to have to figure it out.
01:01We're kind of punting on the frontcourt.
01:03They have a good backcourt.
01:04Yeah, the backcourt's great.
01:05The frontcourt, not so much.
01:06When you're going in with Luka Garza, who has been like a per-36.
01:09I don't know if you're a per-36 guy.
01:11Not really.
01:12No, I'm not.
01:13He's been a darling in that department.
01:15Minutes, points, assists, rebounds.
01:17Yeah, that's the way to go.
01:18Give me the big five.
01:19Xavier Tillman, he's going to play a little bit of the five, but he's more of a four.
01:22He's a little bit smaller.
01:23Obviously, his knees have been an issue as well.
01:26And then you'll have Namiya Shkato, who has had big games for the Celtics.
01:29He's won them games, specifically two years ago.
01:32He had a stretch there where I was trying to convince Jones that he was good.
01:34Yeah, we were.
01:36We were all over it.
01:37They kind of got a little bit quiet.
01:38They're going to enter with those guys and see what happens.
01:40I think Charles Bassey now on the Summer League roster does present a decent kind of option
01:45here as well, because you can't enter the year with just three bigs.
01:49And two and a half, really, because Tillman's not necessarily a five.
01:53So you're going to need to add someone there.
01:55How small can you go?
01:55There was an old Villanova lineup.
01:58Not the Jalen Brunson team, but prior to that, it was Kyle Lowry and Mike Nardi,
02:04Randy Foy, Allen.
02:05They went four guards.
02:06They always went four guards.
02:08I feel like that might be the Celtics.
02:09They're going to play small this year, and they're going to play fast.
02:12And it's going to be interesting, because offensively, they could, especially if they
02:15keep Simons, they could put up 125 points a game, but the other team could put up 145.
02:21You're looking at a bottom five, at the very least, defense this year.
02:24You don't have any rim protection.
02:27You don't have any bigs to slow those guys down.
02:29If you look around the league, just how important the center position is.
02:33It's like, Celtics are in a bad situation in that department.
02:36Are they still a low-seed playoff team?
02:39I would say so.
02:40I mean, it's a team with Derek White, Jalen Brown, Peyton Pritchard, Sam Hauser.
02:45They're still talent on this team.
02:46Now, what I would wonder is if Jalen Brown rolls his ankle, an injury that last year
02:50or the year before, any year in his career, would have cost him three games is now two
02:54months, just kind of shutting him down.
02:56Because you don't want to overextend these guys.
02:57I think that's probably the number one thing.
02:59The worst thing you can possibly do is overextend a guy like Jalen or Derek and have them get
03:04hurt.
03:04And then you're not fully healthy entering the 2026-27 season, which is what this seems
03:10like it's all about.
03:11So as the casual fan, that's what I'm asking in the sense of, will this team be worth watching
03:16throughout the year?
03:16Or as opposed to, all right, I'll check in in the beginning of the summer for the playoffs.
03:19Yeah, I think it'll be a fun team to watch.
03:21We've seen teams like this before.
03:23The Isaiah Thomas Celtics.
03:24This team could kind of be like that, where there's not a lot of expectations.
03:27A chippy team full of hot.
03:29Right.
03:29And sometimes that makes it more fun.
03:31So there is, though, a lot of expectations on Jalen Brown, and he's kind of put it on
03:35himself.
03:35So we just played that cut coming back.
03:36He was on with Kyrie Irving, which is another sort of aside, which I know he's friends with
03:40Kyrie, but as a Celtics fan, it drives me nuts.
03:42Yeah.
03:42And it's like, those two specifically butt heads when they were here.
03:47When Kyrie was here, I mean, those two guys didn't get along.
03:50Then Kyrie leaves.
03:52Everybody here in Boston can't stand the guy.
03:55And now all of a sudden, he and Jalen Brown are like best butts.
03:58And Brown got into some issues with some of his support of Kyrie, where it wasn't just
04:02about Kyrie the person or the player.
04:04It was some of the posts that Kyrie had and some of who he was associating with.
04:09And then Jalen Brown got kind of caught into that mess.
04:11So Jalen Brown, to me, he makes it hard to root for him with some of that stuff and hanging
04:17out with Kyrie Irving.
04:19You can hang out with whoever you want to.
04:20But I also can feel any way I want to on the court, like he plays hard.
04:26He's an easy player to kind of root for for your team.
04:30But some of the other stuff is just kind of like an eye roll.
04:32Right.
04:32It helps, too, because he wants to be the man.
04:34He does.
04:35So watching it, watching that is the best part, knowing that that guy wants to be higher
04:40than he already is.
04:41I mean, you were finals MVP.
04:42You're making a ton of money.
04:43Yeah.
04:44And yet he still thinks there's more to do.
04:45And that's what's exciting to watch.
04:46And I think that's part of the thing that's bothering him.
04:48Dude, there's a lot bothering him.
04:50We'll get to this article coming up.
04:51Finally, he is the guy.
04:53Like, he's always, there's always been 1A, 1B.
04:55It's always been him versus Tatum.
04:57It's always been that way.
04:58Finally, he is the guy.
04:59And here we are talking about, like, oh, they could be a low playoff seed.
05:02Like, all of a sudden, there's no expectations.
05:04And the team, granted, it's because of the situation they were in.
05:07And I'm sure he understands this.
05:08The team didn't really do a whole lot to surround talent around him.
05:11Right?
05:11The finally, Jalen's the guy.
05:13He's got a chance to prove what he is.
05:15And he's a very prideful individual.
05:16So, like, he's going to take this opportunity and be excited to roll with it.
05:20But the team's selling off pieces.
05:22You're bringing in low-end free agents that have potential upside that could complement you in the future.
05:27And it seems like every time you say a retool, like, what exactly is a retool?
05:31It's a mini-rebuild.
05:32Is it not?
05:32Yeah, of course.
05:33Like, there's no such thing as really.
05:34Especially with such a small roster.
05:35Right.
05:35There's only other sports where there's a million players.
05:37You lose one starter due to injury, and then you trade two starters.
05:41Like, you're down three starters from last year.
05:43Like, you're not going to be the same.
05:44I mean, just think about the guys they lost this offseason.
05:47Kristaps Porzingis, Drew Holiday, Luke Cornett, and eventually Al Horford.
05:50That's a playoff roster.
05:51Yeah, right.
05:52Just the guys they lost in general.
05:53So, it's tough to make up that ground.
05:55Especially when you're kind of handicapped in what you can do because of the financial situations and the basketball penalties.
06:00And I think, for the most part, fans understand that the moves they were making wasn't because of financials.
06:06Oh, Brad Stevens straight up said it.
06:07Part of it, yes.
06:08I mean, part of it is, like, I mean, you can't really justify spending a half a billion on a roster that doesn't have your best player.
06:15Right.
06:15And not to mention, they were going to lose in the second round anyway.
06:17Yeah, they were done.
06:19They were done.
06:19Oh, well, Tatum got hurt.
06:20You never know what happened.
06:21Like, they were moments away from being down three to one.
06:24They were going to lose that series no matter what, which makes it even harder.
06:27So, that's just life in the NBA now.
06:29Like, it's going to happen.
06:30Like, the money's going to play a factor.
06:31All the basketball penalties, all that's going to factor in.
06:34And, you know, it's just kind of firsthand the Celtics are the first team to experience it.
06:38And that's kind of tough to swallow.
06:40So, Jalen Brown's been doing a lot of different things in the community, really his entire time here in Boston.
06:44And this summer, that's no exception.
06:46He also did an interview with Noah Dalzell.
06:49Is that how you say it?
06:49Noah Dalzell, yeah.
06:50Dalzell, yeah.
06:51So, Celtics blog, it's a great breakdown.
06:53A lot of really, really good quotes in here from Jalen Brown, including, you know, how he feels about the city, but also how he feels about the team.
07:03And he was asked about, like, on-court sacrifices that he's made.
07:07This quote jumped out to me.
07:09I want to get your take on this, Terp and Billy.
07:11Quote, I disagree with a lot of things.
07:14I've had to change roles, styles.
07:17I've had to do things that other players of my talent just haven't had to do.
07:21And I've been okay with them because I've always been a team guy.
07:25I feel like sometimes that gets taken for granted.
07:30Okay.
07:31What do you think of that part?
07:32There's more, but, like, that's sort of what – he disagrees with a lot of things.
07:35He changes roles, and other players, as good as he is, wouldn't have been asked to do that.
07:40Honestly, I think he just said the quiet part out loud.
07:42I mean, everyone, every NBA player does say that.
07:44And people on the team the last two years, too, like Derek White at times has mentioned it, Chris Topps, Porzingis.
07:49They all want to take more shots.
07:51Right?
07:51Every basketball player wants to shoot the ball and score more points.
07:54And I think Jalen is no different, and he wants to do that as well.
07:59I think also with him, like, when they did kind of change – when they brought in the new iteration of Celtics and Chris Topps, Porzingis, and Drew Holiday,
08:06if you remember, thinking back to the 2023-24 season, it took him a little bit of time to adjust.
08:11Like, he was one of the ones that was really the most affected by it because he went from being, like, a clear number two to, like, some nights it was Derek White.
08:18Other nights it was Chris Topps, Porzingis.
08:20And Jalen was still terrific in that season.
08:22I think his best season was actually the 2023-24 season.
08:25Like, that was his best regular season and postseason.
08:27Yeah, that was where he got all in the game, right?
08:29Yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:29He was phenomenal that entire year.
08:31So, I think he said the quiet part out loud because I think a lot of players feel this way.
08:36So, I understand, like, he is viewed as the second-best player on the team.
08:40So, despite being finals MVP and an NBA champion, like, he's just viewed by everybody, with the exception of probably him, as the second-best player.
08:48He did take almost 18 shots a game, which is easily in the top 20 in the NBA.
08:54So, there's 30 NBA teams.
08:56You take the 17th-most shots.
08:59Tatum's above you on that list.
09:00But I'm just curious, like, what is he talking about, like, sacrifices?
09:05Like, they won a title two years ago.
09:08So, whatever they asked you to do, like, I guess they asked, you know, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Cameron Garnett to sacrifice in 08.
09:14They did.
09:14They won a title.
09:16Like, is he looking at this as, like, it comes across, and the problem is this is just in print.
09:20Right.
09:20So, like, you can't really, like, read into, like, how he's saying it.
09:23You can't do that.
09:25So, is he like, hey, I bought into this, and, like, it's worked for my career and for the team?
09:29Or is he like, hey, like, give me credit for sacrificing all of this.
09:32Not a lot of people would do that.
09:34Like, is he mad about being asked about to do this?
09:36There was another quote in there towards the end that he was saying how it was all worth it because they ended up bringing back Banner E2, and obviously he paid a key role in that.
09:44I wonder if it's just the style of play as well.
09:46Like, Jason and Jalen kind of combat each other in the way they play.
09:51Like, Jason's a really, he likes to slow it down.
09:53It's a lot more, like, we're going to work, he's going to just use his skill, where Jalen's one of the best players in the league in transition.
09:58And there's kind of, and we talked about it when Tatum went down.
10:01It's like, how different are the Celtics going to play?
10:03Like, we're going to see it firsthand this year.
10:05They're going to play a lot more, they'll play a lot quicker this year with Jalen at the helm.
10:09Like, that's just how he wants to play.
10:11So, maybe it's because of the style of play, maybe it's just the limelight of, like, hey, I've always been in Jason's shadow.
10:17Like, that's just been the reality for him since he came in the league.
10:19So, how much change do you think there was from Eme to Missoula that impacted Brown?
10:25And then there was now change when Pozingas and all those guys came in.
10:28So, like, is he saying this is technically the third time he's had to make an adjustment because Tatum's out?
10:32Yeah, I think the Eme system, in a way, might have fit Jalen a little bit better because Jalen's just so big on defense.
10:38And so is Missoula, especially after his first year.
10:41And that was the one big thing after Missoula's first year.
10:44He really honed in on the defensive side of the ball.
10:47Like, they wanted to be a top defensive team.
10:48Like, that's how they wanted to play.
10:50And they've done that to their credit.
10:51Like, the scheme has worked.
10:52They've been a great defensive team.
10:54But Eme obviously has one of the best defensive schemes in the league, one of the best coaches.
10:58I know that's Keith's guy.
10:59Keith's the best coach.
11:00Yeah, I mean, great job defensively, like, what he does with his team.
11:03So, yeah, I mean, there are different kind of changes he's had to make.
11:07And, you know, maybe that wears on a player.
11:08I also, like, again, it's the tone in this as well.
11:11Like, I don't think it's necessarily complaining per se.
11:14It's like, you know, he's been well chronicled what he's been through in Boston going back from the night he was drafted and the draft night booze.
11:20And that's something he doesn't forget about.
11:21No.
11:21And then for years.
11:22Which, again, is wrong.
11:23Like, I get his point.
11:25And I also get his point of holding a grudge.
11:26Like, I'm very pro holding a grudge.
11:28I think it's the most healthy thing you can do.
11:30But, no, he is still pissed about being booed on draft night.
11:33But what he doesn't understand, and I'm sure people have told him this a million, million times, the boos weren't for him.
11:39Right.
11:39Which he doesn't get.
11:40And if he needs that for motivation, I guess great and so be it.
11:43But it was literally because that's when Wick came out with the fireworks quote.
11:47They were going to make fire.
11:48They were going to trade for Jimmy Butler or Paul George or whoever else on that list.
11:54They didn't even really know who Jalen Brown was.
11:56He played one year at Cal.
11:57I don't think a lot of people were watching a lot of Cal basketball.
12:00Not Pac-12.
12:00So, no.
12:01And me and Jones were there.
12:02We were doing a draft show at the Garden.
12:04Sick brag.
12:05And everybody booed it.
12:06But they were booing that.
12:08And then he became a great player.
12:09And fans love him.
12:10People love – he won't accept it.
12:13And some people are just this way.
12:14But I think the fan base, for the most part, because you can't get any fan base to 100% agree on anything.
12:21But I would say the vast majority of fans love Brown.
12:23Wouldn't you say so?
12:24I would agree with that.
12:25I think maybe he's falling into a majority on Twitter that, you know, it's not a nice place there if you haven't learned.
12:32It's not a great place there.
12:33Maybe he's reading too much into that.
12:34But, like, it's easy to avoid.
12:35Like, you don't have to be on Twitter.
12:37If there's hate on Twitter, avoid it.
12:39And then how much hate is there then in your real life?
12:41That's not real life.
12:42This is fake life.
12:43Right.
12:43And I think that's part of this offseason that's kind of been therapeutic to him is having all these – being so active in the community and seeing all these people standing out in the rain or whatever it may be to support him.
12:53And these guys, everyone coming up and just telling him how much he means to them in the city, I think that kind of changes his perception.
12:59And I think just after the championship in 2024, I think there was a different kind of change in his demeanor.
13:04Like, he seemed more confident.
13:06It was a weight off their shoulders on the court.
13:08And just off the court, I feel like he felt more accepted in a way.
13:11And I don't know if he's spoken about this on the record, and he hasn't said anything to me about it.
13:15But that's just kind of the feeling that I got, that, like, he felt more comfortable after the championship, felt more appreciated.
13:21So they do think it's the people online that are saying these things, the shut-up-and-play-basketball people.
13:26Right.
13:27It's such a small number of people, but obviously they use that as a motivation.
13:31Right.
13:31I mean, I think he went in there and said, like, people don't like the community stuff that he does.
13:35I mean, who's going to say that?
13:36That's a very small minority.
13:37There's an idiot to say everything, though.
13:39Right.
13:39And if that's what you want to point to, I guess so be it.
13:42And maybe everybody is a little bit guilty of that.
13:44You know, if 100 people tell you you did a great job, and then one person says you suck, you're more likely to remember the one guy that says you suck than you are the 100 that think you're great.
13:52And there are other players, like, look at Kevin Durant.
13:54Every couple of months, Kevin Durant gets him, like, a back-and-forth on Twitter.
13:59Like, he can't hit it.
14:00Like, dude, you've made half a billion dollars.
14:02You're one of the greatest players of all time.
14:04But if somebody says, like, you're not clutch, like, you, like, lose your mind.
14:07Right.
14:07He's shameless now.
14:08He just does it on his regular account.
14:10He used to make, like, these burners.
14:11He's been exposed so many times.
14:14Like, what do you have to lose?
14:15Just go out with the regular account.
14:16But it is weird.
14:17I mean, you know, I guess in that case, like, some guys are just never going to be completely happy.
14:21Because there are some quotes in there talking about he can't be himself in Boston.
14:25And it goes back to, like, all right, like, is he going to be here for the long haul?
14:32But the answer is, yeah, he already has.
14:33Like, the guy's about to enter his 10th year with the Celtics.
14:36He's under the Supermax deal.
14:38Now, not a lot of players start and finish their career in one place regardless.
14:43Especially now.
14:44It's going to be so rare in today's NBA.
14:46These max contracts.
14:47I mean, teams aren't going to be able to live with two or three guys on a max contract.
14:50I mean, you can.
14:51But you have to be really good at building the roster well around.
14:53So I think we're going to see that more and more.
14:55But I will say, too, it feels like every time Jalen gets the chance to express his love for the city, he does it.
15:01He's very clear that he's happy in Boston.
15:03He loves it here.
15:04Now, there's some things that he doesn't like.
15:06And I think that'd be anywhere.
15:07But I feel like, for the most part, he seems happy in the situation.
15:11I mean, he doesn't love all aspects.
15:12And it's not going to be perfect.
15:13But for the most part, he does like it.
15:14Celtic City, I thought, was pretty interesting.
15:16Like, the documentary.
15:17Right.
15:17When him and Bill Russell and just sort of him talking about that pretty openly.
15:23I thought that whole thing was pretty good.
15:26But on the court, he had a great quote, too, at the end of this article where he's just like,
15:31I feel like I'm very talented.
15:33I'm one of the most talented people in this league, on this planet.
15:36I'm looking forward to showing the world more.
15:38Which, great.
15:39Because next season is going to be all about him.
15:41Like, you're the guy.
15:42Like, you are clearly the guy.
15:44Right.
15:44You asked for it.
15:45You're going to get it.
15:45Oh, my God.
15:46I mean, how many shots per game is he going to be allowed to take next year?
15:49Like, 25?
15:50I mean, we went through the numbers a couple weeks ago.
15:53We went through the numbers.
15:54I mean, with Jason Tatum out, you're missing about a quarter of your shots per game.
15:57Yeah.
15:58A quarter of your points.
15:59A quarter of your assists.
16:00A quarter of your rebounds.
16:00There's so much ground.
16:01And that's just Tatum.
16:02And that's just Tatum.
16:03Then you've got Kristaps Porzingis.
16:04And Drew Holiday didn't shoot as much.
16:06But Drew Holiday also factors into that.
16:07Al Horford, just think about all the guys you lost.
16:10Now, again, it's going to be interesting to see how much they actually push him.
16:13And how much they let him go.
16:14Because you don't want to overextend him.
16:16I think the Celtics, when you keep saying retool, that's a mini rebuild.
16:19Oh, it is.
16:20No doubt.
16:21You're gearing up for next year.
16:22Like, we're going to see what happens.
16:23We're going to play free this year.
16:24See what happens.
16:24We've seen these teams go on a run before.
16:27But it's gearing up for next year.
16:29And are you going to overextend Jalen and potentially running the risk of him getting hurt or whatever?
16:34I don't know.
16:35No, probably not.
16:36So, last year, Shea Gilders-Alexander led the league in shot attempts per game at 21.8.
16:43Is Tatum fifth?
16:44Fourth.
16:45Fourth.
16:4520.4.
16:46So, four guys averaged 20 or more shots.
16:49Tatum, Anthony Edwards, Cade Cunningham, and SGA.
16:52Brown's going to smash that.
16:54That's crazy that SGA is that high, considering how many free throws he takes, too.
16:57Yeah, how many actual shots did he take in the game?
17:00How many actual shots per game is he taking?
17:01And then he also took nine free throws a game.
17:02Yeah.
17:04That's incredible that he's that high.
17:05But, yeah, there's going to be tons of opportunity on this offense.
17:08Yeah.
17:08As much as people are talking about Jalen Brown as the true one, I'm also excited to see what
17:12can Derek White do as a two?
17:13What can Peyton Pritchard do as a three?
17:15Like, see what Anthony Simon's got.
17:17Like, it's going to be fun in that sense to see what they have.
17:20Because at this point, it's like, there are no expectations.
17:23That's just the reality.
17:24Like, Brad Stevens can come out as much as he wants and say, oh, the North Star is contending
17:28for a championship.
17:29Well, the North Star is miles and miles and miles away at this point.
17:33Like, you can't seriously enter the year with the front court that you have and be like,
17:37hey, no, don't worry.
17:38We're trying to contend.
17:39Like, you can't with the front court that you have.
17:41That's just not reality.
17:42So, it's going to be interesting.
17:43And it's going to be a lot of experimenting and finding out what you have on this roster
17:47for the future.
17:47And I think that's something that fans can't be excited about.
17:50And it's corny and it's a cliche, but the most important thing is getting through the
17:52season healthy.
17:53Right.
17:53Is what it is.
17:54So, yeah, so you're going into next year with Tatum and you're like, all right, hopefully
17:58some momentum.
17:58All the money that's coming off the books, too.
18:00I mean, Simons and Yang, their contracts, if they finish the season here, their contracts
18:04will be expiring.
18:04You're going to be under the first apron by, I think, $18 million next year.
18:08So, you'll have all these assets that you didn't have access to.
18:11You'll be well under the second apron.
18:13And, you know, you'll have plenty of opportunity to mix and match then.
18:16So, it's unfortunate.
18:17And I think the conversation would be a little bit different if Tatum was still healthy.
18:20I think the trades that were made in terms of Kristaps Porzingis and Drew Holiday were
18:24completely inevitable.
18:26Like, that was going to happen.
18:27I think maybe had they won the championship, they would have kept it and they would have
18:31really dipped back into the second apron because you had just won back-to-back titles
18:35had you done it.
18:36And a new owner is going to come in and be like, nah, you know what?
18:38We're going to dump these two guys.
18:39Even if you didn't win it, but Tatum was healthy.
18:42They were going to trade him off.
18:43It was going to.
18:43Yeah, they were going to go to the second apron.
18:44Maybe you get Horford back, though, because Tatum returning and the East being wide open, he's like,
18:50all right, that's at least a place worth...
18:51I completely agree with that because that's when Horford's tune changed.
18:55Right after the Tatum injury, right when they were losing it.
18:58That's when it's like, you know what?
18:59I don't know if I'm going to come back for another year.
19:02Like, we'll see.
19:02And it seems like he is.
19:03And it seems like it's Golden State's the answer.
19:05Interesting.
19:06Maybe if Tatum was healthy, there'd be more of an incentive for guys like Horford and
19:10Cornette.
19:11I thought Cornette, too.
19:12He's turning 30 this summer.
19:13Gotcha.
19:14Hasn't made a ton of money in the NBA.
19:15He got his money now.
19:16So he goes out and gets paid.
19:17I think that was inevitable.
19:18But you probably would have had Horford, yeah.
19:20All right, that's Justin Turpin.
19:22He's in for a pure hoops hour on Jones and Keefe.
19:25No Jones today.
19:26A lot of lists have been coming out.
19:28Best since 2000.
19:30The all-quarter century stuff.
19:32Turpin and I are going to come up with our all-NBA quarter-century teams.
19:36That's right.
19:36Two backcourt, three frontcourt for a first, second, and third team.
19:40Stats from the 2000 season on.
19:42None of the 90s.
19:43That doesn't count if they were good in the 90s.
19:45So we will give you those lists coming up next.
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