- 6/12/2025
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00:00Essentially. Wow. Now that is something that Kevin O'Connor had said previously.
00:06EBT. Everybody but Tatum.
00:09Everybody but Tatum. That was Kevin O'Connor's report.
00:12Shams just confirmed it on some level. He said, well, yeah, essentially.
00:15Everybody but. Now that doesn't mean they're itching to trade Jalen Brown.
00:20No, but I wouldn't frame it that way.
00:21You're going to get calls about everybody.
00:24And can't you see a scenario where you're like,
00:26there's a little bit of blood in the water.
00:27You have no Tatum for a whole year.
00:29They everybody in the league knows about the second apron.
00:32They're going to call.
00:33I would think about Jalen Brown at first, Derek White at second.
00:38And then depending on how that conversation goes,
00:41maybe Brad's like, all right, well, we're not doing that right now.
00:43But like we do a, you know, Porzingis holiday.
00:46What, you know, try to get a deal done.
00:47But my guess is Brad's going to be talking to almost every team in the league.
00:51So he said, essentially, and it's our two Jones and Keefe here on WEI.
00:55We'll talk to Brad full at one.
00:56We'll go on the clock.
00:57Does Steph Diggs need the Patriots or do the Patriots need Steph Diggs?
01:00That's at high noon.
01:02And we'll get to Belichick later this hour.
01:05Leah Anthony's appearance this morning on the Greg Hill show,
01:07which you're not going to want to miss.
01:09But Shams said, essentially, everyone not named Tatum, they'll listen on.
01:15But he did say their focus is on Drew Holiday, Christoph Porzingis, and Sam Hauser,
01:20which I think should surprise no one.
01:22I think they are open for business, likely to move one or any of all three of those guys.
01:31In a related story, the Celtics just put out a tweet.
01:34Glue Holiday, a picture of Drew Holiday.
01:36Glue Holiday.
01:37Glue Holiday?
01:38Yeah, he's glue guy.
01:39Yeah, I like that.
01:40I think.
01:40That's pretty good.
01:41Plus, I'm missing something else.
01:42Oh, you like that nickname?
01:43Yeah, I kind of like it a lot.
01:44Glue Holiday.
01:45Plus, Glue is G-L-U-E.
01:48Drew, somehow, is J-R-U-E.
01:51So we're pretty close.
01:52They're right around.
01:52He is a glue guy.
01:53He is.
01:54But they just tweeted that out, like, Glue Holiday?
01:56Somebody just thought of it.
01:57They're like, guys, we should call him Glue Holiday.
01:59This one, I always wonder.
02:00Or is it right before he gets traded?
02:01Right.
02:02These social media accounts, I mean, they're always putting stuff like that out.
02:04But is there any correlation?
02:06Let's see.
02:07Interesting.
02:07Or is that like a defense of Drew slash Glue Holiday?
02:11Drew slash Glue.
02:12One day after his name is in, I wouldn't say trade rumors, but Shams is bringing up
02:16his name in a potential move.
02:18Yeah, I guess.
02:19But I'm with you, Keith.
02:20I think the Celtics have to listen on any offers for Jalen Brown and Derek White because
02:26of the Jason Tatum injury.
02:27If Tatum's not hurt, I wouldn't really even be listening on Jalen Brown unless you're going
02:32to blow me away, Giannis or something like that.
02:35But I think the Tatum injury opens it up to listen to everything.
02:38The fact they're focused on Holiday, Porzingis, and Hauser, those are the most likely names
02:43to move.
02:43But I think if you get blown away, and we played this for you last week, we were talking about
02:48this last week.
02:49Mannix was on NBC Sports.
02:51Boston has their off-season.
02:54C.
02:54Smart.
02:55Apostrophe.
02:56I get it.
02:56Zun.
02:57Right.
02:57I would have done the ZN.
02:59Season, season.
03:00I voiced this.
03:01I would have done C's ZN is what I would have done.
03:04Yeah, that would have been a little snappier.
03:05Yeah, well, the kids would like it.
03:06Yeah.
03:07They'd appreciate it.
03:07They'd eat it up like a pot roast.
03:08Um, but Mannix said, you know, the Spurs are the team to watch in the Jalen Brown sweepstakes.
03:15And oh, by the way, the number two pick might be the capital along with some other players
03:20that could move.
03:21Devin Vassell, Keldon Johnson, names like that.
03:24So I wouldn't do that trade, but I don't know how, what do the Celtics think of Ace Bailey?
03:29What do they think of Dylan Harper?
03:31And if they really like those guys as prospects and think they would fit well with Tatum and
03:35they can reset their books, then they got to listen.
03:37I wouldn't do that trade, but maybe Brad loves those guys.
03:40See, I think there's enough way to reset your books and keep Jalen Brown because as soon
03:43as you trade Jalen Brown, you are then going to be, I would assume, either chasing another
03:49top 20 talent to join up with Tatum two years from now, or you really are sold on Harper
03:56or Bailey or whoever the second best player in the draft is.
03:59But even if that guy's great, we just went through this for Tatum and Brown.
04:03It took those guys, as great as they are, a few years to really become the players that
04:07they are.
04:08So I think by trading Brown and, you know, not getting back Cooper Flagg or not getting
04:13back somebody that is more in line, like Devin Booker.
04:16Not that you would do that, but you don't say like somebody that's already established
04:18without doing that.
04:19You're kind of telling Tatum, like, I don't know, like we're going to, we're going to
04:23save money and you're going to be the guy, but you're going to be just tearing apart the
04:27team.
04:28Cause if you trade Brown, maybe you don't necessarily have to trade, I guess, poor Zingas
04:33or holiday, but poor Zingas is a free agent after next year.
04:36Horford's not going to resign.
04:37If you don't have Brown and Tatum for a whole season, true holidays, a year closer to free
04:42agency.
04:43So Tatum's going to be left with nothing when he returns.
04:46If you trade Brown in that kind of scenario.
04:48Yeah.
04:48Unless there's a younger player he could grow with, uh, like you said, in the, the Dylan
04:53Harper, Ace Bailey, Cooper Flagg realm, you wouldn't try, I know this, but just to go
04:58through it, you wouldn't trade Jalen for Kevin Durant.
05:01No, me neither.
05:02No, not now.
05:03I've done it to 15, 15 other times.
05:05I was going to say, this question has been brought up and on for five, six years, but
05:08I am now officially out on that.
05:10You just brought up the name Booker.
05:12Would you trade Jalen for Booker?
05:13Um, yeah, maybe I do like Booker.
05:15I think I would do that.
05:17I would do that.
05:18If that's, but that's not a money saving thing.
05:21What's Booker's deal.
05:22I actually think it's probably similar.
05:23He's got to make less than Jalen.
05:25Uh, well, yeah, because Jalen signed like the biggest deal ever, but it's not, it's not
05:29cheap.
05:30Whatever.
05:30I think it's a ton.
05:31I'll, I'll, I'll look it up, but I, and yeah, that's not a salary dump.
05:34I do think Booker would fit nicely with Tatum.
05:37And so if you're talking, if you're talking about building around Jason Tatum and the
05:40fit with Tatum, Booker makes 53 next year and then 57 and 61.
05:46Okay.
05:46So, okay.
05:47So that, so you're definitely not.
05:48I kind of feel like Booker's a little bit of a loser.
05:50He is.
05:51He is.
05:52He might be, it might be a lot of bit of a loser.
05:53Celtics fans should know this.
05:54I mean, that 70 point joke of a game he had is working on like 30 points.
05:58Yeah.
05:58And they kept calling timeouts.
05:59Yeah.
05:59So I took a picture like he was Wilt Chamberlain.
06:02You're like, Hey bud, you guys got smoked.
06:04You scored 20 points in the last minute.
06:06Cause your coach kept calling timeouts and the Celtics didn't care.
06:08Durant, Booker and Beal playing together on a team and not making the playoffs.
06:12When 10 teams make the playoffs, they're all losers, but they're good.
06:15Like individually, they're good.
06:16Booker is a little bit of a loser anymore, but, but I'd take him.
06:19He's a loser who hasn't won.
06:20And would you trade Jalen for the loser who has won Giannis?
06:24Yeah, I've gone back and forth on this, but he is just such a better player.
06:29I don't like him.
06:30And so that's why I'm like, it's, it's a, not as easy a yes as it should be.
06:35But Giannis was third in the MVP this year.
06:38Unanimous first team, all NBA.
06:40He still has a few more prime years left.
06:43He's that much better than Jalen.
06:45And you could still get a couple of years when Tatum returns where you make a run at
06:49it.
06:49So yeah, begrudgingly, cause I don't like them.
06:52And I would do that.
06:54Yeah.
06:54So, but this is my, this is my point.
06:56When I say the Celtics have to listen, if they, I'm not telling you Milwaukee will offer
07:00that deal, but I think if San Antonio offers you the number two pick, you got to think about
07:04it.
07:04I wouldn't do it, but that's worth evaluating and really thinking about what it would
07:08look like and how the team would fit.
07:10And who do you like beyond Cooper flag?
07:13I think flag would be a no brainer.
07:15Yeah.
07:15Flag's an obvious one.
07:16Giannis.
07:17I just wonder like Giannis, I would pause.
07:19But I would do it.
07:20So, so would I, but what's the end game there?
07:24Because if you're trading Jalen, isn't the biggest reason money saving?
07:28Yeah.
07:29And Giannis makes the same amount pretty much.
07:31Well, yeah, I think the biggest, I'm sorry.
07:34The biggest reason for Bill Chisholm is money.
07:35Not for me.
07:36I'm sorry.
07:37Yeah.
07:37Yeah.
07:37Yeah.
07:37For, for, yeah, they wouldn't be accomplishing that.
07:39I mean, I guess, depending on what their cap situation, maybe it's Brown and a couple
07:43other kind of thing.
07:44I, this is what I think you do, or you make another one for one, like you're left in the
07:47same thing, right?
07:48So a one for one would really be a basketball trade and it wouldn't be a money trade.
07:52Whereas I feel like any poor Zingas holiday and like Hauser toss in, those are all money
08:00trades.
08:00Like if everybody made the same amount, they would probably keep the, all these guys.
08:03So I think they're listening on all of them.
08:05The irony is the guy, no one wants to trade.
08:07I saw Scal going off on this the other day.
08:09He's like, there's no chance.
08:10They trade Derek white.
08:11I mean, I wouldn't be itching to trade Derek white either.
08:16If you want the most bang for your buck, I think there's two guys you could move to get
08:20a big return.
08:21It's Peyton Pritchard and Derek white.
08:24And that's because they are on decent deals.
08:26Jalen's on, let's face it a horrible deal, uh, for a guy who's about to hit 30.
08:32Only so many teams are going to pay that.
08:34Like Jalen Brown is not valuable because of his contract is a really good player, but he's
08:39not valuable because of his contract.
08:40And I think drew holiday is not valuable because of his contract poor Zing is.
08:45I actually think has some value because of his contract.
08:47He's an expiring deal.
08:48We'll see who's right and wrong about that.
08:50But if you really want bang for your buck, Derek white and Pritchard, I wouldn't move
08:54Pritchard personally.
08:55That's like a heist of a deal.
08:57Derek white would be the guy you listen on.
08:59All right.
09:00I'm not doing it.
09:00And I know Shams just said it's everybody, but Tatum, but, but, but I like this.
09:06Yeah.
09:06So Tatum's coming off an Achilles injury.
09:08He's going to miss all of next year.
09:09You have to pay him $54 million next year to rehab and get better.
09:12Tatum for Giannis.
09:13I'm just saying, like, is that what you were going to ask?
09:15Well, Tatum for any of these guys, I mean, a package of players that he's better, but
09:20I wouldn't do Tatum for Booker, but Tatum for Giannis, because he's hurt does make some
09:24sense.
09:24Cause you do have to, you're like fingers crossed that he recovers full go and he's
09:28worth the super max and he's still a top five player, even top 10 player.
09:32He'd be worth it.
09:33And you try to make a run at it, which is what I'm banking on.
09:36I assume he's going to miss a year and then he's going to be back.
09:39He's going to be pretty close to it.
09:40But if they're trying all these different things, like if you're willing to, if they're
09:45willing to trade Jalen Brown, who was the finals MVP and you have them locked up long
09:49term and won two games without Tatum in the playoffs last year.
09:53We'll listen on Brown, but we're insulted by Tatum.
09:55It's like, well, one guy's out for the season.
09:57No, no, no.
09:58Cause in a vacuum, who do I want more?
10:00Tatum or Giannis?
10:01I want Tatum.
10:02Same.
10:02So that's who I would take in a vacuum.
10:05Now Tatum's hurt.
10:06Yeah.
10:07Could I trade Tatum for Giannis and maybe Giannis and Jalen next year could win something?
10:11No.
10:12Okay.
10:13But that's like the next four years.
10:14It's interesting to talk about.
10:15I'm also a no on that.
10:17It's interesting to talk about.
10:18It's a talk show.
10:18I'm not doing it.
10:19I'm just saying like, instead of like, no, instead of Jalen Brown, why are we even
10:23entertaining trade Jalen Brown?
10:24But it's like, it's like, no, my God, don't even ask about Tatum.
10:27Well, instead of, well, Brown's going to play next year.
10:28Right.
10:28Instead of wasting everybody's time for a year.
10:30And who knows what Tatum is going to look like post-injury, which, which this injury
10:33has a horrible, horrible track record, a horrible one.
10:36I think if let's say they made it around further and let's say Porzingis was healthy and these
10:42are all hypotheticals clearly.
10:44And Drew Holiday like looked a little bit better.
10:46Wouldn't there be, no, you don't say like, I'm just trying to wrap my head around it.
10:50So, so they won the title two years ago, right?
10:52With this, they bring the squad back and let's just say Tatum got hurt and Tatum's out, but
10:55everybody else looks pretty good.
10:57Wouldn't there be a little bit of like an itch?
10:59If you're the new owner to say, well, that's 54 million sitting well and playing, do we
11:04run it back with everybody else and whatever we get for him and try to take a run at it
11:08this year?
11:08Actually be really competitive.
11:10You're surmising the owner cares about winning and not making his money back.
11:14Dude, he watches all the games.
11:15He's the biggest Celtics fan.
11:16He wore a jersey to the game and he knows Chris Forsberg.
11:19It was a Tatum jersey though.
11:20He's from the North Shore.
11:21Yeah.
11:22I'm just, or is it a bit of a Lance Dobbins situation going on with Bill Chisholm?
11:26Yeah.
11:26I'm not, at the end of the day, I'm not trading Tatum either.
11:29I just say like, if it's literally a, oh, everybody's available.
11:33It's like, well, then wouldn't he also be available?
11:35Yeah.
11:36No, I'm with you.
11:36They should listen.
11:37I mean, there's a couple of different ways to read what Sean said when he said essentially.
11:41Yeah.
11:41Nick, can you just clip the very end of that real quick too?
11:43I would just point out before people say like, well, who would want a guy out for the whole
11:47year?
11:48I mean, that's how Kevin Durant went to the box.
11:50They signed him as a free agent, knowing you'd miss an entire season.
11:54Yeah.
11:54So they paid him the super max to sit or not the super max, but they paid him the most
11:58they could for him to sit for a whole year.
12:00And then he was good.
12:01But again, he's kind of a loser and the, the nets didn't do anything.
12:04And that ended up being a mess with their different versions of the super team.
12:06But I think teams would be interested and they would say, all right, we'll, we'll sacrifice
12:11a year to have four years on the, on after.
12:14As we talk this out, essentially could mean two different things.
12:17Let's hear the very end of Shams on McAfee yesterday.
12:19Everybody, but Tatum essentially, I mean, Oh, essentially does that mean?
12:24So I read, Oh, you go one or two ways.
12:25I read essentially as well.
12:27Yeah.
12:28Essentially everybody's available, but they're probably not going to move Jalen or Derek white
12:32their priority or however he worded it is to move Hauser and holiday and Porzingis.
12:37But essentially could also mean, well, yeah, but they'd listen on Tatum too.
12:40I feel like Brad Stevens is pretty similar to Danny Ainge in the, he'll trade anybody.
12:46Don't you think?
12:47I think a good GM should look at it.
12:49They should.
12:50No, they should.
12:50But I think some like, like, if you have Jokic, I'm not looking to trade Jokic.
12:53Tatum ain't Jokic.
12:54So I'd, I'd, I'd listen.
12:56If I were OKC in the right deal, I'd listen on SGA.
12:59Really?
13:00Yes.
13:01Like, but like Mark Cuban, for example, would not have traded Luka Doncic.
13:04He wouldn't have.
13:05Mark Cuban wouldn't have.
13:06Probably not.
13:07No, he even said so.
13:08He's like, I'd rather get divorced than trade Luka.
13:09But people can say whatever they want, but he also kept Dirk forever.
13:12So fair.
13:13Yeah.
13:13So I think there are maybe a couple of guys that, that would, but I just feel like,
13:16you know, Marcus Smart had been on the Celtics for a long time.
13:20He's not the player these other guys are, but like he was blown away by it.
13:23Like he had no idea he was getting traded and he did.
13:25And so, you know, Brad, you know, he's trading Kemba Walker.
13:29He's trading Malcolm Brogdon after a year where he's the sixth man of the year.
13:32Like he's, he's trading anybody.
13:35Now he has held on to Jalen Brown, despite a thousand trade rumors, even in the only
13:40couple of years that he's been running the team.
13:41So maybe he is more partial to Jalen and, and, and Tatum.
13:45He's going to keep those guys together.
13:46But I think Brad would be capable of anything.
13:48Speaking of Jalen and, you know, again, Shams isn't saying they're trading him,
13:53but he's not ruling out that they're going to listen on those guys.
13:55Does the announcement of Jalen surgery complicate that in any way?
13:59It sounds very minor.
14:00He's, he's going to be good to go.
14:02So I don't think does that complicate anything?
14:04No, I don't think so.
14:06I think teams also don't expect players to play 82 games anymore, right?
14:10So even if Jalen Brown has to kind of ease into the season, I think teams would be just
14:16as interested as before.
14:17So I think this can be a good team.
14:19I mean, tell me who's around Jalen Brown, but I think this can be a good team next year
14:24in the East without Tatum.
14:26But do you think there's any chance Porzingis and or Holiday are back?
14:30I think there's a chance one of the two of them are back.
14:32They won't both be back.
14:33No, they're both gone.
14:34And I think Hauser is almost a lock to be gone.
14:36So Hauser is also gone and whatever, maybe Baylor Shireman can be Hauser.
14:39Maybe it's not much of a drop off.
14:41I guess the question I have is I'm with you.
14:43I think Porzingis and or Holiday are as good as gone.
14:47The question is, does Brad find a way to replace those guys with like a rotational player?
14:52Or is it just like picks, buyouts, scrubs?
14:56Let me give you one.
14:57So Porzingis, this was brought up to me by Max Letterman.
15:00You know Max at NBC Sports Boston.
15:03What if there's some kind of switch of Porzingis for Vucevic?
15:06Maybe the Celtics have to throw more in, but Vucevic is in the last year of his deal.
15:09He's older.
15:10Like what if there's a swap like that?
15:12And just a swap like that.
15:13I'm not saying that specific one.
15:15Yeah.
15:16Where you trade Porzingis, but you get back a guy who is a good player and a representative player.
15:22And you've kind of remade the way you play to a degree.
15:24Yeah, I think that's what Brad's going to try to do.
15:26So Jalen with Vucevic instead of Porzingis.
15:29And now, you know, maybe you throw in Hauser.
15:31Vucevic is healthier than Porzingis.
15:33When you throw Hauser in that deal, so you are ultimately saving money and you're not locked into Vucevic.
15:38But like a trade like that, yeah, I think they can be still middle of the pack in the middle of the playoffs next year.
15:44Yeah.
15:44And not Craig Breslow middle.
15:46No.
15:46But, you know, actual middle of the pack like four seed next year in the East.
15:4950-ish wins.
15:50I think they can do that.
15:51Because if you take away, let's call it Porzingis, Horford, Tatum, Hauser, that's four of your eight or nine guys.
16:02You know what I mean?
16:02So like that is, that's quite a difference.
16:04But if you have brown and white with a couple of bigs that aren't trash bigs, right?
16:10Like you want to be better than Luke Cornett if you can get it, better than my guy Kata if you can get it.
16:16And then you keep Peyton Pritchard.
16:18I personally would keep him off the bench.
16:19Let him do what he did last year.
16:21Let him be the same type of player last year.
16:23Don't try to get way too much out of him and see what that team can do.
16:28Yeah.
16:28It's still better than what we were going through.
16:30You know, the Ringer does their updated top 100 players in the NBA.
16:33They update it every month or whatever it is.
16:35And the Celtics still, even without Tatum, had what, five guys in the top 90?
16:40Yep.
16:40Like that's more than most teams.
16:42Right.
16:42And even if you trade it off Porzingis or Holiday, you still got four guys in the top 100.
16:45Yeah, right, right, right.
16:45So, I mean, you're on those guys.
16:46You're talking about a good team.
16:49I think, regardless.
16:50You're talking about a good team.
16:51You're talking about a good team.
16:52You're talking about a good team.
16:53You're talking about a good team.
16:54You're talking about a good team.
16:55You're talking about a good team.
16:56You're talking about a good team.
16:57You're talking about a good team.
16:58You're talking about a good team.
16:59You're talking about a good team.
17:00You're talking about a good team.
17:01You're talking about a good team.
17:02You're talking about a good team.
17:03You're talking about a good team.
17:04You're talking about a good team.
17:05You're talking about a good team.
17:06You're talking about a good team.
17:07You're talking about a good team.
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