- 6 days ago
David O'Rourke, the NYRA President and CEO, discusses the organization's successful Belmont weekend, the Belmont returning to Saratoga next year, and Belmont's hosting of the 2027 Breeders' Cup with Bill Finley, TD Thornton and Randy Moss on this week's TDN Writers' Room as the Gainesway Guest of the Week. Gainesway is the home of Karakontie, the sire of She Feels Pretty, who won her fourth Grade I stakes win last week In Saratoga's New York Stakes.
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00:00For the love of the worse, for generations to come.
00:23Welcome to another edition of the TDN Riders Room podcast presented by Keeneland.
00:32My name is Bill Finley, and I'm wondering what Randy Moss has on his head.
00:36What I have on my head is an honorary cap there for my alma mater, University of Arkansas.
00:43Yesterday, I was actually at the College World Series in Omaha, and I watched an Arkansas pitcher named Gage Wood
00:50throw the first no-hitter in College World Series competition in 65 years.
00:56So I thought I would start off the show, at least, with my version of a hog hat, Bill.
01:01Didn't he throw like 126 pitches, too?
01:04Something crazy.
01:05He struck out 19 batters and allowed one base runner, and that was on kind of a fluky hit batsman that got hit in the ankle.
01:15Otherwise, it would have been the only perfect game in College World Series history.
01:20It was fun.
01:21Wow.
01:21Bill, get right on the phone to the Red Sox.
01:23Right.
01:24Yeah.
01:25And I'm TD Thornton, speaking to you from a little bit north of Boston.
01:28Today, I'm a correspondent at Thoroughbred Daily News.
01:31Well, as we began taping this podcast earlier on Tuesday morning, the situation in New Orleans for the fairgrounds was troublesome,
01:38with the Churchill Downs threatening to close the track.
01:41But TD and Randy, you both can chime in on this.
01:45Apparently, the story, just as we were on the air, has changed.
01:50Yes.
01:50Churchill Downs Incorporated, you might recall a reading in Thoroughbred Daily News over the past week.
01:56They've had another one of their, we're going to take my ball and go home with it and have nobody else play,
02:01because they wanted to shut the fairgrounds down, allegedly over a couple of things that didn't go their way.
02:08Number one, historical horse racing was declared unconstitutional without a referendum, a local referendum back in March.
02:16And recently, they failed to gain some subsidies in the state legislature.
02:21They, Churchill Downs Incorporated, sent a letter that said that they were going to, they intended to surrender their gaming license.
02:27However, we just got some news breaking today that it's been resolved.
02:31I mean, obviously, there was a firestorm of controversy about this surrounding Churchill Downs Incorporated,
02:38primarily because of, I think, because of what happened to Arlington Park in Chicago,
02:44which Churchill Downs owned and which was eventually torn down.
02:48Now, we could spend the whole podcast talking about that.
02:51Another concern, obviously, was the legal counsel of Churchill Downs Incorporated going before the Louisiana Racing Commission
02:58and saying it was disappointing and sad that the future of one of the nation's oldest racetracks is now in jeopardy,
03:05as if Churchill Downs Incorporated might, you know, might also completely stop racing at the fairgrounds.
03:14So it's clearly a big development and a positive development that racing is going to continue at the fairgrounds for the 2025-26 season.
03:27Louisiana HBPA says the purses might have to be reduced somewhat.
03:31We don't have any word yet.
03:32It's still kind of fuzzy.
03:33If anything else changed to make CDI, you know, reach this agreement with the Louisiana HBPA.
03:41But certainly fantastic news because the fairgrounds is integral to the winter racing scene in the United States.
03:50So good news in New Orleans, that part of Louisiana.
03:53Bad news in Vinton, Louisiana, where ICE has raided.
03:57We apparently Delta Downs, the backstretch there.
04:00Now it's a quarter horse meet as we speak.
04:03These would be quarter horse, the workers are working with quarter horses.
04:07But, you know, I think we were all I don't know if we were fooled into thinking that it would be a little naive that the Trump administration would leave the racetrack workers alone because of that understanding of how vital they are.
04:21Trump had even said some things about how those are not the kind of people he's looking to get now.
04:27But they go into ICE.
04:29I don't want to be too hyperbolic here, but if this is the first of many raids around the country in at the nation's racetracks, that's going to be a colossal problem.
04:41I don't think you can be too hyperbolic about that.
04:43I mean, with all the problems facing thoroughbred racing right now, at the very top of the list would be if all of the, you know, the Hispanics that are taking care of the horses right now at American racetracks around the country could no longer work.
05:02I mean, or at least even half of them, you know?
05:06I mean, this is a gigantic problem.
05:09I mean, what happens to horse racing if there's no one there to take care of the horses?
05:12Shut down, Randy.
05:14I mean, I don't want to make this political because, honestly, I don't consider myself a Republican or a Democrat right now.
05:22So there.
05:23But, I mean, one thing we know for sure is that if you're concerned at all about tariffs, about immigration, about things like that, just kind of hang around and things might do a complete 180 in a week or two.
05:40So that's really the solace right now that I'm taking in and what's going on right now at Delta Downs.
05:47Yeah, it'll be interesting if they go after Evangeline next.
05:50So that's where the thoroughbred people are at.
05:53You know, immigration enforcement officials are under tremendous pressure to meet quotas for rounding up these people.
05:59And, again, I can't comment intelligently because the story was just breaking as we're taping this.
06:04So I'm only getting a few select details from what's been coming across in the news.
06:08But it's cruel to people and it's cruel to horses.
06:10I understand there were even during the raid at Delta Downs on Tuesday morning, there were cases of horses being left on hot walkers.
06:18And the enforcement officials telling people on horseback to get off and just leave the horse.
06:24It's unnecessarily cool.
06:27The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
06:30Monmouth Park proved to be fertile ground for Keeneland's September grads last weekend as Bishop's Bay impressed on Saturday in the Grade 3 Salvatore Mile.
06:39Then, in the very next race, Whiskey Decision won the Grade 3 Eatontown Stakes.
06:45This year's Keeneland September sale runs September 8th through the 20th.
06:49It's coming up.
06:50Make plans to attend.
06:51And coming up next on the show, we'll speak with David O'Rourke of the New York Racing Association.
06:58It all comes down to this.
07:01Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
07:02The moment that defines the year.
07:04When the world's most influential buyers gather, and every decision, every bid, every opportunity shapes the future.
07:14At a marketplace that brings the thoroughbred world together, and where futures are forged.
07:21Because every moment matters.
07:24At the World's Yearling Sale, Keeneland September.
07:29Our fastest horse of the week brought to you this week by Constitution.
07:33One of those fast sires at Winstar Farm.
07:35I don't have to tell you guys this, but Constitution is on quite a roll.
07:40He just hit his eighth black-type winner of 2025 when Admiral Dennis won the Delaware Derby at Delaware Park.
07:45And that game, just eight days after Parchment Party, won the Grade 3 Belmont Gold Cup at Saratoga.
07:52Constitution presently the sixth leading general sire in North America.
07:56And he stands at Winstar for a fee of $110,000.
08:00Now, the fastest horse of the week happens to be a son of Medaglia Doro.
08:05His name is Nash, owned by Godolphin.
08:09And Nash won an allowance race on Friday at Churchill Downs.
08:13He's trained by Brad Cox, written by Luis Machado.
08:16Nash ran down pace setter Harrodsburg on a sloppy track at Churchill.
08:20They opened up 11 lengths on the rest of the field.
08:23Nash won by a nose after six furlongs in 107.79.
08:29Just .24 seconds off the Churchill Downs six furlongs track record.
08:33Buyer's speed figure, 106.
08:37Nash is a four-year-old, if you recall.
08:39He was the beaten favorite last year, finishing second behind Seize the Gray in the Pat Day Mile.
08:45Loves Churchill Downs.
08:46And Nash and Godolphin are clicking on all cylinders, and so is that powerful Brad Cox stable.
08:57Welcome in now the Gainsway Guest of the Week, and it is now our president and CEO, David O'Rourke,
09:02who's had a lot on his plate lately going up and back and forth to Saratoga, new Belmont Park being built.
09:08David, a busy time for you, I know, so thanks for coming on.
09:11My first question is, how is the Belmont rebuild going?
09:15Is it on schedule, and are you still looking to open up Belmont in the fall of 2026 or the new Belmont?
09:21Well, thanks for having me on.
09:23Yeah, it's still on schedule.
09:24We'll open in the fall of 2026.
09:27Be a bit of a soft opening.
09:29And then first major events, Belmont in 2027, and then we'll probably talk a little bit about the Breeders' Cup.
09:34Will Aqueduct officially be done as soon as the new Belmont Park opens up,
09:42or will there be a little bit of a period there where they're both in operation?
09:48It will close.
09:50According to the agreement, I could get this wrong, it's either 30 or 60 days once we get the temporary CO for Belmont,
09:56the state takes over the racing part of the facility.
09:59Okay, and give us your take, if you will, on year two of the Belmont Stakes at Saratoga.
10:07What amazing racing all week.
10:10Yeah, it was great.
10:11We headed up a day earlier.
10:14Last year was such a novel thing.
10:16But from the ops team, hats off.
10:18We opened on Wednesday.
10:20We had New York Bread Day.
10:21Weather was good for a couple of days.
10:23And then it got a little dramatic Friday going into Saturday.
10:26We got about two and a quarter inches of rain.
10:29You know, we had to make a tough decision on a couple of those grade one turf races to move them to Sunday.
10:34You know, we're trying to hold out in the morning, but it just became clear that best move is shift those to Sunday,
10:40keep them on the proper surface.
10:42Fortunately, we had to take some of them off.
10:44But, you know, Glenn's team's amazing.
10:47Like, by the time the big race went off, that track was fast.
10:50And given that amount of rain, you know, hats off to the infrastructure that we're doing on these racetracks
10:56because that saved the day there.
10:59Dave, looking ahead to 2027 when the figurative construction dust is all settled and we have the new Belmont and Saratoga as the two main Naira tracks.
11:10I know in recent years, the Saratoga calendar footprint has expanded a little bit.
11:15Some of that's by necessity because you had to run the Belmont stakes up there and you made it a four-day festival.
11:20And this year is going to be an Independence Day weekend holiday festival up there, a mini-meet as well,
11:26before the action gets going for the more traditional meet.
11:29But once we're down to the new Belmont and Saratoga, what do you envision the calendar to be like up there or to be between the split of the two tracks?
11:39So Saratoga will go back to its 40-day meet.
11:42So, you know, just the quality of that.
11:44We're going back to, I can't really call it the traditional, but the current meet.
11:49Downstate, we're looking, you know, we're going to have a synthetic meet during the winter.
11:53So the idea is Andrew and his team are working on that calendar, trying to give characters to certain parts of the season, you know, when we're heavy focused on turf.
12:02So I think you'll see some different personalities to how we're trying to segment up the Belmont meet.
12:10But, you know, we're going to be down there for the, essentially, for 10 months out of the year.
12:14So it's going to be a lot of turf racing.
12:17We'll have the synthetic in the winter, and then you'll see us move into the spring.
12:21So you're really replacing the aqueduct winter meet with the synthetic meet at Belmont.
12:26David, part of a two-part question, with all the rain and the way you had to rejuggle the card, how much did that cost you an handle, would you estimate?
12:37When we were going into Saturday's card, we kind of set an internal line there after we moved those races.
12:43We were thinking about $85 million.
12:45It outperformed, but the tracks, you know, improved during the day.
12:49And so we outperformed what our internal expectation would have been going into Saturday.
12:54Now, overall, it probably cost about $30 million in handle.
12:58So the cards that, you know, Rob and Andrew put together, they were going to overpunch, but they didn't get the shot.
13:06That's just the way it rolls sometimes.
13:08So that leads to my next question.
13:09Is it at all a possibility you could put in a synthetic track at Saratoga?
13:14You know, we've looked at it.
13:18It's just difficult with the configuration.
13:20So in the near term, no.
13:23Now, might we play around with a training surface somewhere, possibly an uphill four-four long jog, something like that.
13:31But in terms of the main surfaces, no.
13:33Now, there's even some ideas out there, and you can think of them as sort of crazy, is putting one over at Oklahoma and bringing off-the-turf races over there.
13:42But that logistically is different.
13:44And actually, when I tested that with some of the gambling side, actually, they liked it.
13:48But I'd say in the near term, no.
13:51And it is a challenge, and it's always going to be a challenge at Saratoga.
13:54So for now, we're sticking with the current configurations, at least in our planning.
14:02Dave, Belmont Stakes Day itself, you know, the Triple Crown carries some gravitas, and everybody seems to love Saratoga.
14:09But one thing that struck me about watching the races on Belmont Stakes Day was just how long of a day it was.
14:16It was almost a nine-and-a-half-hour span going from, I believe, the first race went off somewhere just after 10.45, and the last race post-time was 8.05 at night.
14:28Obviously, a big day hours-wise got expanded because you had to remove the two turf races and expand some of the time between races there.
14:37But nine-and-a-half hours, even if you ran 14 races, just seems like a long stretch in an era where most other major sporting events are trying to shorten up the events.
14:47Too much of a good thing, or am I barking up the wrong tree?
14:50No, I agree with you.
14:51I think it's a little long.
14:52I don't know if to tighten it up.
14:54You know, from the racing side, they're trying to generate the most handle-to-purse ratio that they can.
15:00And when you have days like that, you have a halo effect.
15:02So all those races outperform around the big race, but too much of a good thing?
15:08Yeah, I think you might be right.
15:10So, David, now getting to the question that's kind of hovered over the triple crown for the last couple years.
15:15You had a very good Belmont Stakes, no doubt about it, to get the first three finishers back from the Kentucky Derby.
15:21It was made for a tremendous race, especially when they ran one, two, three again.
15:26But, you know, the consensus among so many people is the triple crown with the two weeks, three weeks is not working right.
15:36And it's even that it might be costing Naira something, because what if sovereignty ran in the Belmont, excuse me, in the pregness this year?
15:44Might he have been going for a triple crown?
15:46So I know you get asked this question all the time.
15:48I'm sure you're a lot more concerned right now with the rebuild of Belmont.
15:51But are we still are we still sticking to that two weeks, three weeks schedule for the near future?
15:59For the near future, for sure.
16:01Next year is the World Cup.
16:03So it's going to start right after the week after Belmont.
16:05So nothing would happen in the near term.
16:09There's a lot of different theories on this, like, Bill, like, for instance, yours would be what would you do?
16:15What I would do would be first Saturday in May, first Saturday in June, first Saturday in July.
16:21So you'd move the three-year-old mile and a half dirt race first Saturday in July.
16:26The knock-on effects of that are also have to be contemplated.
16:30Now, I can see an isolation.
16:32But in terms of the knock-on effects, what it would do for, A, the undercard races that we currently have with the Belmont, B, races like the Haskell or whatnot.
16:41I think it kind of leads into, is there a pattern for the U.S. racing?
16:45Do people have to stick to the pattern?
16:50So, you know, if we're moving these things just for Naira's benefit or just for, I agree that for the industry, the triple crown is the holy grail.
17:00It's the one thing that works.
17:02How much do we want to play with it?
17:04If you moved it that far and it didn't work, what do you do?
17:06So I would say that you're probably looking at at least what's being contemplated internally, and in some conversations, it's more of an incremental move than a drastic one.
17:17Because this is the one thing that it is sacred to really our sport.
17:22It's the one thing where the meteorites are significant.
17:25It's our moment.
17:27Right.
17:27And if we move, if we play with it too much, we could break it.
17:31And that's kind of like the nightmare scenario.
17:33So I do, I have heard, I don't know if I'd say it's consensus.
17:37I think there's factions that view it in both ways.
17:41But from me personally, I would say you do a more incremental approach.
17:45So maybe not quite as aggressive what you're saying.
17:48Did it ever cross your mind or come up?
17:50I mean, it's all hypothetical and, you know, we don't have any answers, but maybe we did rob ourselves.
17:55Well, I'm not, you guys don't determine everything, but the circumstances, Rob Naira, of the possibility of having a horse going for the Triple Crown this year.
18:06When you say that in terms of just sovereignty skipping?
18:10Well, with sovereignty skipping the Preakness, you obviously don't have a horse eligible for the Triple Crown.
18:16Yeah, that's, yes.
18:17And it's a unique year.
18:18We're running it at a mile and a quarter at Saratoga.
18:20So the field was great.
18:23And that is a factor.
18:26I mean, it's a factor if these horses skip the Preakness, if they skip the Belmont.
18:29So there's years in the Belmont.
18:30It's a completely different dynamic race because very few of them show up.
18:35You know, it's a risk, but it also makes it kind of an interesting thing for when it does happen.
18:39It's amazing.
18:39It's been several years, but we went 37 years between efforts.
18:47The last thing we want to do is move it and start to lose the focus of the general sports consumer.
18:54And having within five weeks, that's a nice package, really.
18:59Once you start spreading that out to, you know, 9, 10, 12, whatever it might be, you could be diluting that, the ability to keep the attention of the public.
19:08So I think this, when you get down to it, it has to be a decision that made that works for everyone.
19:14But I can't emphasize more.
19:15I also think in terms of the overall pattern in the U.S., there probably needs to be a little bit more of a thought process on who's putting what races where and what kind of approvals or how do they manage slash regulate that.
19:31Dave, computer-assisted wagering continues to be in the news.
19:36On the one hand, computer-assisted wagering teams that are allowed to participate in certain jurisdictions provide quite a bit of handle.
19:44But on the other hand, they're the bane of existence for the average horse player.
19:47They get advantages that the average Joe horse player does not have in the form of rebates.
19:54And they're also available in some circumstances to scan the pools and bet at the last minute, which is the cause of a lot of late odds fluctuations after the race goes off in certain cases.
20:06And four years ago, Naira took some fairly aggressive steps that were lauded in the industry, trying to quell the effects of the CAW teams.
20:15For one thing, back in 2021, Naira barred the time limit at which they could continue to bet right up until the last minute.
20:22It's no longer right up until the last minute.
20:24And some of those CAW teams subsequently left the win pools.
20:29Naira also barred them from participating in the late pick five and the late pick six.
20:33And there seem to be some good results of money not coming in at the last minute to change those odds and fluctuate the pools so much.
20:42Now, last week, the topic of CAWs was in the news again.
20:45A horse player named Marshall Graham, who's also an economics professor at Rhodes College, did a study in which he alleged that in four years since then at Aqueduct, using the statistics available from the winter meet, that money has instead flooded over to other pools.
21:01And the CAW teams appear to be in action in the exact trifecta, superfecta, and early pick fives.
21:08I was wondering if you'd seen the study and what your take is on it.
21:11Yeah, I did.
21:13And Marshall's a brilliant guy.
21:15I think there's one piece of information that we got back to him, though.
21:19We switched totes from Amtote to United Tote.
21:23And that last cycle, the timing of it, and I could be off my parameters, but directionally, the United Tote final cycle is 30 seconds, where the Amtote cycle is 10 seconds.
21:35So what he was measuring, and you're trying to infer out, they weren't apples to apples.
21:41Now, granted, everything that you're saying is understood.
21:46We did limit them in the wind pool.
21:50We, a long time ago, actually never allowed them into the late pick five pool, and it was a really good way just to measure the impact of what are they doing to the pricing volatility, really, when you get down to it.
22:00To me, this answer is we need throttle controls, and we need to have an agreement across, really, the industry on how much we're going to allow them in and to what pace in terms of the timing and to what percentage of the pools.
22:19And if we can get consistency from each of the major content providers, I think then you start to get a control over the situation and how much they are in the pools.
22:28Because you're not going to bar people from using computers.
22:31Like, this is, in a lot of ways, this is an investment advantage that they have in terms of how much money that they can put in to the tools that they're using.
22:38And now compute is just getting better and better, and this isn't going to change.
22:44So how much of the pools, I mean, I had a conversation with Pat Cummings, actually, recently, and I asked him for some, give me your thoughts and give me your proposal on what should be the velocity and the timing limits.
22:55And I think this should become a conversation.
22:59Because it needs to.
23:02You do not want 40%, 50% of pools being CAW.
23:06That's not our game.
23:07Our game is parimutuel.
23:09It has a specific advantage in volatility and pricing, in efficiency.
23:13You want to maintain that.
23:14So I think you just really have to limit the amount that they're allowed in through those mechanisms where they're able to put in hundreds, if not thousands, of bets in, like, seconds, for lack of a better term, putting it.
23:27And do you think there is an industry-wide appetite for those throttle controls, or is it at the conceptual we need to have a conversation level?
23:34Is there any action being taken?
23:35I think we need to push it.
23:36And I think I should be on a couple of panels, and I think other people should be on them as well.
23:40And we should start pushing what we, as an industry and as a group, agree on what makes sense here.
23:46I mean, NYRA can continue to do this, but if we're not doing this in conjunction with the rest of the industry, one, it could be to our disadvantage.
23:57Because when you look at takeout or anything else, and you look at a player, they're not playing every track, but they're going to play several.
24:04So you want that churn to keep flowing back in.
24:07But if you're the only one that's adjusting your pricing or your controls around it, that's not necessarily going to all flow back to you.
24:12So you're essentially costing yourself net revenue unless everyone's doing it.
24:19So really what I'm talking about is there needs to be a consensus approach into how we handle CAW play in the U.S.
24:26David, you just said—
24:26It's not unlike other countries.
24:28We just don't have that centralized authority like Hong Kong would or PMU would in France.
24:33David, you just said you don't want the computer-assisted wagering guys to be 40% to 50% of the pool.
24:38Is that just a number you threw out from the clear blue sky, or are we at that point where they're 40% to 50% of the pool?
24:45No, we're nowhere near that on the larger pools.
24:47I'm just using that as like a doomsday scenario.
24:53So you mentioned takeout, David.
24:55I mean, this is talking Marshall Graham's language and Pat Cummings' language.
24:58I think they've both advocated for a significant drop in the pari-mutual takeout to give average fans a little bit of the, I guess, rebate advantage, for lack of a better term, that the CAW players have.
25:12You just referenced that.
25:15Is the biggest challenge, the biggest impediment for Naira doing something like that is that other tracks would need to do it at the same time?
25:24Now you're speaking specifically on takeout.
25:29Yes.
25:30Correct.
25:31One of the biggest challenges in that are you're operating in 30 to 40 different states, and each state will have a different type of tax structure set up around pari-mutual.
25:41These are decades old.
25:43A lot of them are fixed amounts.
25:45So you might see a source market fee of 7%.
25:48Well, that's a fixed 7%.
25:50Then you have distributors going into that market like a TVG, a FanDuel, a DraftKant, NairaBets.
25:57And they're buying content and then distributing it, but they're dealing with these fixed amounts.
26:02I think if we take the pari-mutual system and make it a percentage of takeout, whether any sort of tax or increment along the way, that gives you the flexibility to flex up and down.
26:12Then you could have a 7% takeout pari-mutual bet.
26:15That would make sense to take in X state because you wouldn't be underwater from the distributor point of view.
26:21So it sounds like a headache because it is a headache, but that would give us the pricing flexibility as an industry.
26:30But that's going in across a lot of different layers of, for lack of a better term, statute and regulation.
26:38So all the individual racing commissions would have to buy into that, which is…
26:43The major ones would.
26:44Otherwise, say you came out with a bet that was at 8% takeout, whatever it might be.
26:51You can't get that distributed because everybody would be underwater.
26:57I don't mean to give you an answer without a solution, but I just…
27:00No, no, I think your proposal is illuminating there.
27:04I think that might be a solution or at least a partial solution to it.
27:10David, one thing that is not just a Naira story, it's all over the country, but the field size of some of these stakes races is, at times, really not anywhere what you would like.
27:22We've seen so many stakes races over the winter.
27:24Now, usually the feature race is supposed to be the eighth race.
27:28Now, it's always the second or third because you only have four horses in there.
27:32Is there anything that can be…
27:33I mean, horse shortage, yes.
27:35So how are you going to find the horses to fill these races?
27:38I advocate that some of these races really aren't all that important.
27:42Maybe the solution is just to get rid of them rather than run them with four horses and have a winner pay 280 and the exacto pay 640.
27:52Is there at any point you guys are going to take a real look at the stakes schedule and maybe make some changes?
27:58I mean, we're constantly looking at the stakes schedule.
28:01You know, from the owner point of view, that black type is really important, especially on the female side.
28:08Yeah, I would go back to…
28:10And I hear your point.
28:12Like, are there too many options at certain times for certain divisions and at a certain level?
28:18Let's just think about the graded level.
28:19And I'll fall back on to a pattern committee, really, like in terms of kind of forcing the best horses in a certain pattern direction, I think would be best for the sport.
28:31But that's going to take…
28:33That's another version of consensus and everyone buying in.
28:36But I hear what you're saying.
28:39There is a difference to me, though, between like the graded level and then you get to listed stakes and then people just searching for that black type.
28:46So, it seems like there's a bit of a battle in terms of the content providers where you might place a race for a certain advantage that you can put it somewhere.
28:56It fits your circuit as a prep moving in, but it might step on someone else.
29:01And to me, you almost need kind of somebody over top of that, like you'll see in Europe and some of the other jurisdictions.
29:08Well, David O'Rourke, I want to thank you so much for joining us as the Gainesway Guest of the Week.
29:13It really was, despite all the rain, you guys did a heck of a job putting on a show at Saratoga last week and was a thrilling Belmont Stakes that I think we all enjoyed.
29:22And we'll catch up with you again soon.
29:24Thanks again for being our guest.
29:25Thank you for having me.
29:27Our guest of the week, David O'Rourke, brought to you courtesy of Gainesway, the home of Cara Conte, sire of the now four-time grade one winner.
29:35She Feels Pretty, who won the grade one New York Stakes on Belmont weekend at Saratoga and did it impressively.
29:42That was She Feels Pretty's seventh win in ten lifetime starts, her fourth consecutive Stakes win.
29:47I think she's the best North American turf filly or mare.
29:52And before that, she set a new course record in the modesty at Churchill Downs on the Kentucky Oaks undercard.
29:57The 2014 Breeders' Cup Mile winner, Cara Conte, stands at Gainesway for a fee of just $15,000.
30:04You can look for his upcoming two-year-olds at OBS June.
30:09Gainesway, power, passion, performance.
30:13The sun shines bright on Cara Conte.
30:17His first crops of racing age are showing brilliance on the racetrack with a high percentage of Stakes winners.
30:22His versatility is evidenced by winners on all surfaces across the globe.
30:27Spandarella could not have been more impressive.
30:30She feels more than pretty.
30:31She feels fantastic.
30:32It is all.
30:34She feels pretty.
30:37The sun shines bright on this value sire.
30:40Cara Conte, standing at Gainesway.
30:42Well, the Santa Anita meet, the second of the two that they run over the winter and into the spring, ended last weekend.
30:52And there's a shifting of the guard at the jockey standings.
30:57Juan Hernandez had won seven straight riding titles.
31:00And Antonio Fresu, the Italian rider, beat him this time out 34 to 30 over Hernandez.
31:07And I thought that was significant for a bunch of reasons.
31:09First of all, Hernandez has had such a lock on that.
31:12But also, there's a strange kind of dynamic in California where, and this happened with Rafael Bergerano a few years ago, too.
31:21These guys will win the fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh races, which are claimers and maiden claimers.
31:26Then when it comes to riding them in big stakes races, they're nowhere to be found.
31:31Fresu has only ridden 13 times for Bob Baffert.
31:34And it's a little hard to really, you know, make a good living if you don't ride more regularly for Baffert.
31:39But anyways, he's to be congratulated, 34 to win, 34 wins, 30 over Hernandez.
31:45And I do think he's going to catch on.
31:46Just look at Rispoli now.
31:47It's gotten really hot for a lot of reasons.
31:50I think this guy will catch on and hopefully for him be a regular rider in the Triple Crown and Breeders' Cup and other big races like that.
31:58Yeah.
31:58I mean, before the dominance of Juan Hernandez, there was the dominance of Flavian Pratt in California,
32:03who won or shared eight straight riding titles from 2018 through 2021 before he decided to shift his focus in March of 2022
32:12to mainly go east instead of being based 100% of the time in Southern California.
32:18I mean, let's face it, we grew up in an era in which the jockey colony in Southern California was absolutely dominant.
32:28It was by far the best riding colony in America from top to bottom.
32:32But now the purse money in Southern California, the field sizes in Southern California have not kept pace with some of those racetracks back east.
32:43And as we talked about the fairgrounds, the same applies to Santa Anita about gaming.
32:46They're trying to make it go without any gaming support to help boost their purses.
32:51And so the jockey colony is not quite as strong now as it used to be.
32:55But there's still plenty of talent.
32:57You know, I mean, Umberto Rispoli is now front and center because of his connection with journalism.
33:05He actually, truth be said, had the best meet of all in the Hollywood meet at Santa Anita.
33:10I mean, he had only 81 mounts and won with 32% of those and finished only eight wins behind Antonio Fresu.
33:18But it's all about the horses they ride.
33:20That's it.
33:20It's all about the quality of the stock.
33:24And if this can help Antonio Fresu get better stock, then he's good enough, I think.
33:29He's got the ability to make a go of it.
33:31It's just all about the kind of horses they ride.
33:33Right now, lifetime, Antonio Fresu in grade one stakes races is one for 43.
33:42That one win was Stronghold in the 2024 Santa Anita Derby.
33:50And, you know, I mean, he needs better horses and maybe this will help him turn the corner.
33:55And Stronghold was his only ride ever in the Kentucky Derby.
33:59He has not won any triple crown races or any Breeders' Cup races.
34:03But let's remember, he's only been riding in the United States regularly since early 2023.
34:09So he's a little bit, you know, it's somewhat of an Italian renaissance over in Southern California where Umberto Rispoli comes over.
34:17He established himself in 2020.
34:19And now we're starting to see the fruits of his labor in terms of him being getting big race mounts and being under the spotlight or in the spotlight in the triple crown.
34:29And, you know, while Antonio Fresu won the riding title for the what they call the Hollywood portion of the meet, which goes from mid-April until just last weekend, Antonio won the riding title.
34:42But Umberto won six races on closing day on Sunday.
34:45So that was big for him.
34:48You know, I think that it's just a matter of time before they establish themselves.
34:52And Randy made a good point.
34:53I mean, it used to be that Southern California colony going back 30 years ago, early 90s, it was legendary.
35:01And it was so hard to crack.
35:02And you would hear of even a really established New York-based rider like a Chris Antley going over there to give it a try.
35:09And then Mike Smith, later on John Velasquez.
35:12And now the new blood seems to be coming from farther afield, in this case, the two riders from Italy.
35:18But Antonio is going to take a little bit.
35:20You won't see his name in the entries because he's taking a little bit of a break right now.
35:24He's not going to ride the beginning of the Los Almeid.
35:26He's going to go over to Europe and visit with family.
35:29But he will be back for the end of the Los Almeid and, of course, at Del Mar.
35:33So speaking of what's going on in California, Doug O'Neill won his 3,000th race last week.
35:39He's now up to 3,012.
35:40He's won two Kentucky Derbies, 154 graded stakes races, 43 grade one races, just won the Met Mile with Raging Torrent.
35:51And it's always interesting to talk about these guys in the perspective of whether or not they should be in the Hall of Fame.
35:58And I did not vote for him.
36:00But now having kind of looked at these numbers right in front of me, especially that he went over 3,000, I'm not promising.
36:09I'm pretty hard grader when it comes to the Hall of Fame.
36:11I usually vote for only one or two people or horses.
36:14I don't – I call it – they say I don't want it to be the Hall of Fame of the very good.
36:18I want it to be the Hall of Fame of the excellent.
36:21But I think considering these statistics and now that they're right in front of me, maybe I made a mistake.
36:27Is he a Hall of Famer, TD?
36:29You know what?
36:30I don't vote in the Eclipse Awards.
36:32I choose not to vote for the Hall of Fame either.
36:34And I think as a journalist, I like to try and – I don't like to be awarding or rewarding people for their efforts in an effort to try and stay objective.
36:44So I really try to stay away from those types of debates.
36:47But, you know, he has won 3,000 races.
36:50He's had one main stable that has been really helpful and really partnered well with him over the years, the Redham Racing Stable.
36:56They won the Derby in 2012 with I'll Have Another and Nyquist in 2016.
37:03And let's also not forget he's remembered for his big horse was Lava Man, a $50,000 claim back in 2004 who eventually won 13 stakes races, seven of them at the grade one level.
37:14So I can see where you might be able to make the case.
37:17You know, I got to say, TD, you make a good point about not voting for the Eclipse Awards and for the Hall of Fame and all that while you're covering the sport.
37:27I've heard from horsemen very negatively, the horsemen that I have to deal with on a regular basis when I say who I voted for and it didn't happen to be them, you know.
37:40And so that can be an issue.
37:43But having said that, since I do vote in both categories, I did vote for Doug O'Neill the last couple of years for the Hall of Fame, primarily because of his success in the Triple Crown races and the Breeders' Cup, which is not necessarily the case to that extent, to the extent that O'Neill has been successful with some of the others who have been nominated for the Hall of Fame.
38:08But I think, Bill, you and I talked about this before on a previous podcast.
38:12I think the problem with the Hall of Fame right now is that there are so many worthy trainers, especially Hall of Fame-worthy trainers, that the vote gets split up and it's just not possible, hardly, for any of these trainers to get the sort of majority or the vote support that they would need to cross that threshold.
38:36And maybe that needs to be changed.
38:37I don't know.
38:38Well, one solution to that, the Baseball Hall of Fame does it better than anybody else.
38:44And when you're on the ballot, I believe it's either 10% or 20% or something like that.
38:50If you don't get, for the sake of argument, say 10% of the votes, you're dropped from the ballot.
38:57And again, like a lot of things in horse racing, there's no transparency here.
39:01We don't know how many people voted for Doug O'Neill.
39:03We don't know how many people voted for John Sadler, how many people voted for Smarty Jones.
39:08You know, maybe some guy in the bottom of the list got five votes, and then they'll bring them back on the next year.
39:15You can pare down the number of candidates on there by having a stipulation like that.
39:22You know, look, if you can't get 25% of the vote, you have to get 50 to get in.
39:27If you can't get 25% of the vote, you're probably never getting in.
39:31So, you know, I think that's the thing to do to pare it down a little bit and make it a little bit easier to deal with for the voters.
39:39But what's difficult there is that horse racing is unique in that we vote for our Hall of Fame members largely while their careers are still active.
39:49I mean, it's not inconceivable for a jockey's career to span almost 40 years.
39:54They ride from when they're 16 or 17 until their late 50s.
39:57And some trainers might have a career that spans five or six decades.
40:01So you're voting on people as their careers are still unfolding, and some people say it's kind of a necessity because we'd have to wait until all these people retire or die.
40:10And then a five-year eligibility like in Major League Baseball would be honoring these people way, way, way past their lifespans.
40:17But it is kind of a thorny issue no matter how you look at it.
40:21So a big stakes race at Churchill Downs over the weekend and was the return of Immersive.
40:27I remember her before everyone was going all gog about good cheer.
40:31She was the two-year-old filly of the great prominence in the Brad Cox barn.
40:38She was undefeated in 2024, won the Breeders' Cup race of just a tremendous, tremendous year.
40:46She got hurt.
40:46She missed the Kentucky Oaks and everything else.
40:49She came back last week in the Monomoy Girl Stakes at Churchill Downs,
40:54and she was beaten by Kenny McPeak, take charge, m'lady.
40:58It wasn't a blowout.
41:00She was competitive to the end.
41:02She did get blocked a little bit coming into the stretch, but then a hole opened up on the rail for her.
41:08She had clear saline from there.
41:09So I don't think she really had any excuses.
41:13You know, I give her another chance.
41:17She was a tremendous filly, but I was a little disappointed, Randy, to see her get beat.
41:20Yeah, I mean, she did have to wait for racing room, but then she got through on the inside.
41:26She got through along the rail while take charge, m'lady, was three wide turning for home.
41:31She got in front of take charge, m'lady, briefly, I think at about the 316s bowl.
41:35Looked like she was going to go on to win, and then she was just outgamed to the finish.
41:40Now, it was her first start since winning the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Phillies last year,
41:44but I'm a numbers guy, and what I was disappointed in, it was a very straightforward day to make speed figures,
41:54and take charge, m'lady, and immersive's race came back with the buyer's speed figure of 83,
42:01which for stakes-level three-year-old fillies is not very high,
42:06and it's no better than immersive was running as a two-year-old filly.
42:10And you would have to think, it's Brad Cox, the trainer.
42:14I mean, Cox almost always has his horses ready to roll after layoffs.
42:17You know, yeah, the jury is still out because it was such a long layoff,
42:22so you've got to at least, you know, give her that benefit of the doubt,
42:25but it kind of makes you wonder in the back of your mind is if immersive wasn't one of these horses
42:30that was an early maturing type as a two-year-old,
42:34and she's not necessarily going to move on and get a whole lot faster as she gets older.
42:38Yeah, yeah, obviously a good point there.
42:42And she's had seven months off.
42:44The reason she was off was, I believe, for some bone bruising.
42:47But I thought visually, you know, I came away, I was going to ask you that, Randy,
42:51if you thought those numbers were out of whack and you answered my question.
42:54But, you know, numbers-wise, it doesn't look that great on paper,
42:58but she showed some speed at the rail.
43:01Manny Franco decided he wanted to be up there with the speed
43:04and secure a spot on the inside in the four-horse field.
43:07Then he backed off. Then she ran into that trouble.
43:09Probably she was on hold or had some brake tapping going on by Franco
43:13from about the half-mile pole until the quarter pole.
43:17She shot through a very narrow gap at the fence.
43:19Take charge, M'Lady got the better and clearer run on the outside.
43:23The margin of defeat was only a neck,
43:25so I think from a visual standpoint, it was a pretty good race.
43:28I thought they ran on basically even terms with the rest of the field 11 lengths behind.
43:32We might get to see her again and maybe take charge, M'Lady,
43:35in the coaching club American Oaks on July 19th at Saratoga.
43:40Just one note to add to that, and I'm not trying to dump on Immersive,
43:44but take charge, M'Lady was 12th in the Kentucky Oaks.
43:47So it's not like she was in sizzling form coming into this race.
43:52But, yeah, I mean, obviously Immersive deserves another chance
43:55to see if she can rebound to her two-year-old form.
43:58But kind of disappointing to see her not running that well.
44:02The TDN Riders are brought to you by the PHBA,
44:05the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
44:08Big news in Pennsylvania yet again.
44:11The Penn Mile Day card has been postponed due to steady rain
44:15in the Grantville, Pennsylvania area.
44:17It was postponed once to Friday, June the 20th.
44:21Now it has to be rescheduled again to Friday, June 27th.
44:25Hopefully some good weather will arise that day.
44:28So the following four turf stakes will now be run on the 27th of June.
44:34The $400,000 Grade 3 Penn Mile,
44:38the $150,000 Penn Oaks,
44:43and then the two PA Bread Stakes,
44:44the $75,000 Alphabet Soup,
44:46and the $75,000 Leafard for Phillies and Mares.
44:50First post on Friday, June 27th, 5 p.m.
44:54For more information on the Pennsylvania Bread program in general,
44:57you can go to pabread.com or you can call 610-444-1050.
45:06PA Bread, I think we've built a brand at this point.
45:10It's excitement at every step.
45:14Roses for Deborah just set a new track record.
45:17On average for the past decade,
45:19Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year
45:22in breeders awards, restricted races, and owner bonuses.
45:26Plus, PA Bread's shine on the world's biggest stage.
45:29Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
45:32Learn more at pabread.com.
45:36Be a smarter better with First TV.
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46:00With First TV.
46:01The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by First TV.
46:08Goal-Oriented, fourth in the Preakness stakes last month,
46:12was back on the Work Tab Friday at Santa Anita with a bullet work.
46:16Trained by Bob Baffert, goal-oriented went a half mile in 47 and a fifth.
46:21That was the fastest of 25 moves at the distance.
46:24It was his second published workout since the Preakness.
46:27A cult by not this time.
46:29Goal-Oriented's fourth in the Preakness was just his third start and first in a stakes.
46:35All right.
46:35So, we had hoped to have Emma Berry on, the European editor for the Thoroughbred Daily News,
46:41to talk about Royal Ascot.
46:45Myself and TD both claim we don't know the first thing about it.
46:48So, Randy, you have been appointed an Ascot expert.
46:53So, I'll throw you a real softball here.
46:56There was a huge race today on Tuesday, the St. James Palace of Stakes.
47:02What was the story going in?
47:04What was the story coming out?
47:05Talk about an all-star, man.
47:06I wish I had a bowler hat to put on my head right now to talk about that.
47:10Or a tux that I could throw on real quick since it's Royal Ascot.
47:13No, this was a fantastic race for three-year-old milers.
47:18You had Ruling Court and Field of Gold, who were 1-2, and a very strong English 2,000 guineas on Kentucky Derby Day.
47:28Okay.
47:28Then, after that race, Field of Gold diverted.
47:31It's owned by Juddmont.
47:33Field of Gold diverted to Ireland and won the Irish 2,000 guineas at the Curra.
47:39Okay.
47:40Meanwhile, André Matisse of Coolmore, who we are very familiar with since he won the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf last year at Del Mar.
47:48André Matisse started his three-year-old campaign instead in France, where he won the French 2,000 guineas.
47:56So, three guineas winners, the rematch between Ruling Court and Field of Gold and throw-in André Matisse, all ran on Tuesday, as we taped this, earlier today in the St. James' Palace Stakes.
48:08And it was no competition.
48:11Field of Gold drew off as the 3-5 favorite in the international pool, trained by John and Thaddy Gosden.
48:19Drew off to win by three-and-a-half lengths, which is a huge margin for major European turf racing.
48:25André Matisse was a clear-cut second.
48:28Ruling Court was third.
48:30They were three full seconds faster than the Queen Anne, which started off the Royal Ascot meeting, which we can talk about.
48:38Had a very, very slow pace, which had to impact the final time.
48:43But, man, did Field of Gold look good, TD.
48:46And he might be the best turf miler in the world based on that performance.
48:53The Queen Anne, Carl Spackler, was the horse with the American pedigree.
48:58It has since been sold and is going over to Australia eventually to try to run on the Cox Plate.
49:03He ran in the Queen Anne and ran in a mediocre six.
49:08I've always liked that horse.
49:10I voted for him for Eclipse Award last year.
49:12I thought he deserved it.
49:13And I know these are very, very tough races, but he needed to show a little bit more for me to think that he's going to be a big factor later on in the year, particularly in what the new Australian outfit has circled the Cox Plate as their big goal for the season.
49:28So not the greatest start to 2025 for Carl Spackler.
49:33Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, he might have been fifth.
49:37He was either fifth or sixth in the Breeders' Cup mile last year.
49:42And notable speech finished in front of him, Godolph and Charlie Appleby, who was also in this race today, the Queen Anne, and finished fourth.
49:51So Carl Spackler was in a lot deeper over there than he is in many of his United States races.
49:57So I thought he ran okay.
50:00I'll talk a little bit more about him in just a second.
50:03The winner was an upsetter, a 14-to-1 shot by the name of Docklands, who defeated Rascallion, who was second.
50:10The $1 trifecta with a 100-to-1 shot Cairo finishing third internationally came back $2,730.
50:19Again, notable speech fourth, Carl Spackler sixth.
50:22One thing I will say about Carl Spackler, for whatever reason, they didn't fly over Flavian Pratt, who rode him in his last start.
50:32Tyler Gafleone, rode him before that.
50:34Instead, because he's bought by Australians, they went to the Australian jockey James McDonald.
50:40And I know I dumped all over James McDonald for his ride on Romantic Warrior.
50:44And it was in either the Saudi Cup or the Dubai.
50:48I think it was the Dubai World Cup.
50:49It was the Dubai World Cup.
50:51But one thing I noticed right away in this race, in the Queen Anne, McDonald was basically breaking Carl Spackler's jaw to keep him off the pace.
51:02And Carl Spackler was a free-running American horse who has won on the front end before.
51:08And I noticed several other riders in there as well.
51:11Horses were throwing their head around.
51:13You know, they were being reserved.
51:15They were becoming rank.
51:18And you don't see fractional times posted over there, at least not that are readily available like they are in American racing.
51:26But the final time for the Queen Anne, for older horses, was three full seconds slower than the final time for the Prince of Wales' stakes.
51:37Which tells you right there that the pace was unbelievably slow in the Queen Anne.
51:43And yet McDonald was strangling Carl Spackler, who had inside position, to keep him off the lead.
51:49If he had just let Carl Spackler run a little bit, which the horse is accustomed to, given his American background, I think Carl Spackler would have run a lot better.
52:00Maybe he wouldn't have won.
52:01But again, I'm not going to be very complimentary of a ride by Australian legend James McDonald.
52:09So my plan is to have James McDonald on as next week's guest.
52:14All right.
52:17One last thing domestically I want to go over.
52:20It's a very quiet weekend in racing, as you'd expect, as we're just getting out of the Belmont Stakes.
52:25But I did want to talk about the Ohio Derby for a couple of reasons.
52:28First of all, it should be Randy's favorite race because his favorite horse ever, Two Fills, ended his career in the 2023 Ohio Derby.
52:38And, you know, it's a strange race.
52:39I mean, some of these Thistledown guys, a horse in your name, Mohenian Style, was playing for 12,500 last time out and is running in here.
52:48But the story is clever again.
52:50And as we all know, he is the horse that just got absolutely mugged in the preakness with all that was going on with Flavian Pratt and Umberto Rispoli.
53:00So, you know, I'm very interested to see how he's going to bounce back on this.
53:05On his best day, he's probably the most talented horse.
53:08But, T.D., do you think a race like the preakness would mentally affect him and maybe he just won't be on the top of his game anymore?
53:16Even Steve Asmussen had a quote saying, I think this horse is going to have PTSD.
53:20Yeah, you know, I do think that could happen.
53:23But I also, I didn't think that clever again was necessarily in it to win it in the final 360s of the preakness.
53:31No, he was backing up at the time.
53:32You're absolutely right.
53:33He was in the hunt.
53:34But I think that, you know, when he was eased back out of the action after that happened, I think that almost made it look worse than it was.
53:42I think it was the right thing to do for the Colt.
53:44The horse that I'm interested in here, if clever again, is a little too overbet, which I think he might be, is McAfee, the Colt who is a half to Torpedo Anna.
53:54Dick Dutrow, Rick Dutrow trains.
53:56John Velasquez coming in to ride.
53:58It's going to be his only mount of the afternoon at Thistledown.
54:01Two races back, McAfee was fifth in the Wood Memorial.
54:05He tried to close on a speed favoring track.
54:08Came back in the May 10th Peter Pan stakes.
54:10He was second, had the lead late, just got pipped at the wire.
54:13And in that race, he was bumped off stride at the start.
54:16And he was just collared at the wire.
54:18So he had every chance to win that race.
54:20And he would be the betting option that I would look at there.
54:24I would not be aboard the clever again bandwagon.
54:27Yeah, I mean, one other reason not to be aboard the clever again bandwagon.
54:31I mean, first of all, the Preakness, forget what happened to him with the interference and all that.
54:37He was out of horse, right?
54:38Jose Ortiz was completely out of horse turning for home, which was the problem Umberto Rispoli had trying to follow him on journalism, which is what actually led to all that trouble.
54:48But clever again has been a front running horse.
54:51He won wire to wire when he broke his maiden at Oakland.
54:54He won wire to wire when he won the hot spring stakes at Oakland.
54:56He was on the lead in the Preakness stakes before he backed up.
54:59So you immediately look at the Ohio Derby and you look at what other competing speed is in the race.
55:06And on the far outside, you've got a horse named Moplex from the Jeremiah Englehart Barn, who was dueling for the lead in the Bayshore going seven-eighths of a mile.
55:15He was on the lead in the Gander and the Sleepy Hollow for New York Reds before that.
55:19And even if he doesn't have a chance to win the race in the end, he certainly has a chance to make things difficult on the front end,
55:27or at least challenging on the front end for clever again.
55:30And if clever again is going to be an overwhelming favorite, that alone right there, to me, would be a chance, would be an opportunity to look elsewhere.
55:37Chunk of Gold is in the race as well.
55:40I mean, he didn't run very well in the Kentucky Derby, but it was his very first time on a sloppy racetrack.
55:45It's one thing to come off synthetic and run well on dirt like he did in the Risen Star in Louisiana Derby.
55:51If you're getting a face full of slop for the very first time, you can almost kind of understand, you know, how the horse didn't really fare all that well.
56:00But, you know, he might be another alternative to look at.
56:03Randy, I also think Master Controller coming out of six furlong races for Chris Amy would probably be a part of the pace battle early as well.
56:13So I think there's two horses there that – so it doesn't sound like there's too many clever – too many of us are on the clever again bandwagon.
56:22We'll see what happens this weekend.
56:24Run to the windows then and bet them.
56:26Exactly.
56:27Exactly.
56:29The TD and Writers Room also brought to you by our friends at West Point Thoroughbreds.
56:33We talked last week about the West Point John Sadler connection.
56:36Well, that continued this past weekend.
56:40Sunday at Santa Anita Pony Express opened its 2025 season with a six-length victory.
56:47Buyer Speed Figure 101 in an allowance race, the son of Gunrunner, delivered the fourth win in the last five races for the West Point Sadler combination.
56:57West Point races Pony Express in partnership with Michael Talla and Three Chimneys Farm.
57:02For more information on all things West Point, visit www.westpointtb.com.
57:12All the thrills.
57:16Fraction of the bills.
57:20Experience the power of the partnership.
57:26Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
57:32West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
57:38Visit westpointtb.com.
57:41Well, that's a wrap on this week's show.
57:43I want to thank my co-hosts, Randy Moss and TD Thornton.
57:47Zoe Cadman will be back next week.
57:49She's down at Ocala, hopefully picking out the winner of the 2026 Kentucky Derby.
57:54And we also want to thank David O'Rourke, our Gainsway guest of the week, and the people who work behind the scenes, our producers and editors, Sue Finley, Anthony LaRocca, and Alia LaRocca.
58:05We'll talk to you next week.
58:06You
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