- 7/9/2025
Chef and racehorse owner Bobby Flay joined this week's TDN Writers' Room to discuss Crudo, a colt that he co-owns and that ran away with the Sir Barton Stakes on Preakness weekend. Will Crudo head to the Belmont next? Flay addresses this topic and much more.
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00:00:00For the love of the worse, for generations to come.
00:00:23Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:32I'm a correspondent for the TDN, and I also co-host the Down the Stretch Radio Show with Dave Johnson on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:39And how are y'all doing?
00:00:40I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and the Buyer's Speed Figure crew.
00:00:46Zoe Cabman here with First Racing and First TV.
00:00:49So glad to be home.
00:00:50I left Baltimore Airport at 5.30 this morning.
00:00:54I believe I'm running on fumes.
00:00:56I am drinking water, just in case Bill was wondering.
00:01:00All is good.
00:01:01I don't know.
00:01:02It looks like vodka to me.
00:01:04Yeah.
00:01:05Oh, that would be fun.
00:01:07Right.
00:01:08Okay.
00:01:08Well, guys, post Preakness, plenty to talk about.
00:01:11A very good race, an interesting race.
00:01:14Obviously, the story is journalism winning, overcoming trouble.
00:01:20And then, of course, the brouhaha afterwards with the jockeys, which we'll get to.
00:01:24But I just want to get some general feelings from Randy and Zoe.
00:01:28The NTRA poll came out today, and they have journalism at number one, which I don't agree with.
00:01:36I think Sovereignty should be number one because he beat him in the Derby, and we'll settle it in the Belmont.
00:01:40But, Zoe, what do you think?
00:01:43It's what have you done for me lately, isn't it?
00:01:46Sovereignty's in his stall up in Saratoga.
00:01:50Nice, cool, fresh air.
00:01:52A lovely time.
00:01:53And journalism is slugging it out on the racetrack.
00:01:56That's exactly what it is.
00:01:59And maybe the voters are rewarding Michael McCarthy and Eclipse Thoroughbreds for coming back in two weeks in the Preakness while Sovereignty decided to take a pass and wait for the Belmont stakes.
00:02:12But, yeah, I agree.
00:02:13I think Sovereignty should be number one, in my opinion, right now at least, in journalism, number two.
00:02:18So how much does your feelings on that subject have to do with that horse not only winning, Randy, but overcoming that terrible trouble midway through the stretch?
00:02:30Well, look, he was the best horse on paper by, in my opinion, by a fairly solid margin going in.
00:02:38If he had had to run against Sovereignty and Baeza in the Preakness, like perhaps he should have, would we still be talking about, you know, journalism's win or would it have just been a, you know, fast closing second or third?
00:02:52Who knows there?
00:02:53But, obviously, he showed a tremendous amount of courage to be in the position that he was in and then be five lengths behind, approximately five lengths behind Gosger at the eighth pole and, you know, surging with this huge will to win to get up anyway.
00:03:12Really, the only question going into the Preakness was how the two weeks would impact him, if at all, okay?
00:03:21And in talking to opposing trainers in the Preakness Stakes who had watched journalism train at Churchill Downs to a person, they were raving about how journalism bounced back out of the Kentucky Derby.
00:03:38There was no doubt in the minds of the competition that had seen him train at Churchill that journalism was going to bring his A-game in the Preakness and, obviously, they were right.
00:03:53Yeah, he was terrific.
00:03:56He was absolutely terrific.
00:03:59He trained well all week.
00:04:01I watched a video of him, and I said this last week, on the track a couple of days after Derby at Churchill Downs and just watching him do that beautiful extension and that lovely bouncy jog that he's got.
00:04:16I mean, he's a horse that Hissa must absolutely love because you're not going to find a better mover, a sounder horse, and he looked exactly the same going into the Preakness as he did going into the Derby, which was huge.
00:04:30So the question now becomes, does he run in the Belmont Stakes?
00:04:34The ownership group took their time.
00:04:37We didn't know about the Preakness, actually, until I believe right before the draw that he was firmly committed to it.
00:04:43This is just a guess.
00:04:44I don't think he will go in the Belmont.
00:04:46I think that they'll – and I hope I'm wrong.
00:04:49I think they'll say, you know, we've done enough in the Triple Crown Series.
00:04:52We don't need another one right now and just point for Saratoga and the Haskell or something like that.
00:04:57Zoe?
00:04:58I don't know.
00:04:59I was a little bit surprised that they shipped him straight to Saratoga, to be honest.
00:05:04But if you think about it, it does make sense because it's probably the same distance back to Churchill as it is to Saratoga.
00:05:10So if you're leaving the door ajar just a little bit, is it not best just to ship him once?
00:05:17Get him up to Saratoga.
00:05:18I can tell you he's going to be feeling good.
00:05:20Three weeks, that fresh air is going to hit him.
00:05:23And we mentioned this last week, how horses can fool you.
00:05:26He might just be an absolute iron horse.
00:05:29But the temperatures in the mornings there are in the 40s.
00:05:33He's going to come out bucking and squealing.
00:05:35He's going to be wee and think everything's marvelous.
00:05:38And he could con everyone into running him.
00:05:41The fact that he's there means the door is ajar, just like it wasn't in the running of the race.
00:05:49He might stick his nose through it again.
00:05:51Zoe, can you do that wee again?
00:05:55Wee!
00:05:56In the San Felipe, which was the race that really put journalism on the map, he ran a 108 buyer speed figure.
00:06:07Horses typically react when they run a race that fast.
00:06:12Then in the Santa Anita Derby, he got in trouble and he was bounced around.
00:06:16And again, elbows exchanged with Juan Hernandez in the Santa Anita Derby.
00:06:21And he ran a tough race to get up and edge Baeza at the end.
00:06:27A hard-fought win.
00:06:29Then the Kentucky Derby, which is, I thought, the ultimate stress test for three-year-olds.
00:06:35And he finished second, but he got even more of a stress test, as it turns out, in the Preakness.
00:06:40Now, after all that, they're going to bring him back in three weeks and run him again in the Belmont Stakes.
00:06:46I can tell you, if he was mine, I wouldn't even think about it, right?
00:06:50And there's also this.
00:06:52There's also the data points, okay?
00:06:54Since 2002, there have been 30 horses that have run in all three legs of the Triple Crown.
00:07:01That's excluding 2020, when, of course, COVID messed up the spacing and the order of the races and all that, okay?
00:07:0830 horses.
00:07:08Of those 30, and this includes Triple Crown winners, American Pharoah, and Justify, 25 had a worse finishing position in the Belmont than they did in the Preakness.
00:07:20If you exclude the Kentucky Derby and just look at the Preakness and the Belmont, since 2002, 48 horses have run in both races.
00:07:2941, or 85%, had a worse finish position in the Belmont than they did in the Preakness.
00:07:36The data is pretty conclusive, that unless you are a freaking iron horse, horses typically regress in a situation like this.
00:07:46And after being through, after going through as stressful a series of races as journalism has gone through, I, personally, I wouldn't run him.
00:07:56But having said that, I may not have run him in the Preakness either.
00:08:00So what do I know?
00:08:01So we have the potential, if Randy and I are wrong, we have the potential of really good race among sovereignty, journalism, and Baeza.
00:08:14Baeza is a horse, I think, that a lot of people are going to like in there.
00:08:18And if it was a mile and a half, I'm sure people would like him even more so than they are now for a mile and a quarter race.
00:08:23But that would be one hell of an end to the Triple Crown, sovereignty, journalism, and Baeza, a rematch, plus whoever else goes into the field.
00:08:32Randy, would you, I mean, it's all hypothetical at this point, but who would you pick among those three?
00:08:37It's a good question.
00:08:39I mean, it would be, I would assume probably sovereignty.
00:08:42If journalism runs, I mean, you know, from what I just said, my stand on him coming back and running again in the Belmont Stakes three weeks after the Preakness.
00:08:51So then it would be between sovereignty and Baeza.
00:08:54And that would be a pretty tough, tough selection.
00:08:57But I think I would probably give sovereignty the advantage.
00:09:01That's a tough one.
00:09:02Epic.
00:09:03It will be just epic to watch.
00:09:05Yeah.
00:09:06Absolutely.
00:09:06You want to talk about attendance for the Triple Crown, if all three of those run, the attendance is going to be through the roof.
00:09:14And why didn't we have it for the Preakness, right?
00:09:16That's what the Triple Crown is supposed to be.
00:09:18I mean, just imagine what it would have been like to have all those three squaring off again and the public, you know, how the public would have responded after the Kentucky Derby.
00:09:28I know I sound like a broken record about this because I talk about it all the time.
00:09:31And I can tell right away that Randy's going to disagree with me.
00:09:35But I hate it that horses don't run back in the Preakness Stakes.
00:09:40And I started falling and fell in love with racing in the 70s.
00:09:44And that's an era where horses ran in the Derby, the Preakness, and the Belmont, unless they got injured or just it was apparent that they were weighing over their heads.
00:09:53Do you imagine John Veach telling the media after the Preakness that I don't want another crack at a firm because it's just too tough to run five times in three weeks?
00:10:02What that would have done to that 1978 Triple Crown?
00:10:05So, you know, every trainer on the earth will tell you that running back in two weeks is hard to do.
00:10:11I'm sure it is.
00:10:13But, you know, they say that because they feel it in their bones, so to speak.
00:10:19So I did a little bit of investigating, and this is hardly a very scientific sample and not necessarily something that, you know, you can really take to the bank.
00:10:31But I did the last 11 Preaknesses and excluded, excuse me, the last 10, excluding 2020 because of COVID.
00:10:42There's been six winners in the Preakness that ran back in two weeks after the Derby out of 75 starters.
00:10:50There's been four winners of the Preakness who, out of 85 starters, who came back in more than two weeks.
00:10:58So I also need to clarify that one of those horses that won with a two-week dress was Seize the Gray, who didn't run in the Derby, who ran in the Pat Day a Mile.
00:11:07Randy, you know, I wouldn't have fallen in love with this sport nearly as much as I have if I was that 15-year-old kid right now who, you know, okay, he just won the Travers.
00:11:21We'll see him in the Breeders' Cup.
00:11:22Or he ran well in the Derby, by the way, or we're going to retire him.
00:11:26It just drives me crazy.
00:11:29Horses, I just don't see any reason why people are so afraid of this.
00:11:34I don't know.
00:11:34I mean, look, horses are capable of running back in two weeks and running effectively.
00:11:40Not every horse, maybe not the majority of horses.
00:11:42But, I mean, you look at American Pharoah.
00:11:44Look at Justify.
00:11:46Although Justify, I don't think, ran as well in the Preakness as he did in the Kentucky Derby.
00:11:50He won anyway.
00:11:51Look at journalism.
00:11:52I mean, horses are capable of doing it.
00:11:55But when you say horsemen feel it in their bones that, you know, they don't want to run back in two weeks, my opinion is because the horses are telling them that they don't run as well coming back in two weeks.
00:12:08I mean, the Preakness is a classic.
00:12:09There's no reason for horsemen to be skipping the second leg of the Triple Crown unless they think it compromises their horse to a certain degree.
00:12:20As far as your stats go, I mean, I think your stats kind of point that out.
00:12:24But I would add that I went down a similar rabbit hole and then I realized that the very best three-year-olds in the country pretty much all run in the Kentucky Derby.
00:12:38So when you're then comparing in the Preakness horses that ran in the Derby with three-year-olds that weren't good enough to run in the Derby, then they're automatically going to be better and they should win at a higher rate.
00:12:53Even if they ran back in one week as opposed to two weeks, I would still think the Derby horses would come out on the better end of that statistic.
00:13:00But we could go down, I mean, so many examples, but, you know, I think people know the way Bill and I feel about it.
00:13:08Yeah, I mean, up until 2020, Bob Baffert had never lost the Preakness with a horse that won the Derby.
00:13:16And Authentic, if we're counting that, kind of put the kibosh in it because he got beat by Swiss Skydiver.
00:13:21And then Medina Spirit didn't win the Derby, but he did.
00:13:26And then he was third in the Preakness.
00:13:28So up until 2020, he'd never lost a Preakness with a Kentucky Derby winner.
00:13:34Now that's before his, that's before the advent of his, things have changed over the course of the years.
00:13:40And horses tend to run better off four to six weeks rest.
00:13:45And yes, it can be done, but you know, those, let me put this this way.
00:13:52Back in the 20s and the late teens, you didn't have to jump through all the hisser hoops.
00:13:58You just didn't.
00:13:59And it's made a big difference and a good difference, I might add.
00:14:03You know, they're there to protect the horses.
00:14:05That's what they're there for.
00:14:06And they're doing a grand job.
00:14:09You know, let me give you a perfect example of how much times have changed.
00:14:12And I know people know that times have changed.
00:14:13And sometimes they talk about Citation having a race in between the Preakness and the Belmont as an example.
00:14:19Um, there was a horse in 1959 that, uh, had finished second in the Kentucky Derby.
00:14:27His name was Royal Orbit.
00:14:29All right.
00:14:30I think Reggie Cornell was his trainer.
00:14:32Listen to this schedule.
00:14:33Royal Orbit was second in the Santa Anita Derby behind a filly named Silver Spoon.
00:14:38Okay.
00:14:39Then he had a little bit of a break.
00:14:40He came back in the Derby trial, which was Tuesday of Derby week back then.
00:14:45Okay.
00:14:46He finished third in the Derby trial.
00:14:48Then he runs in the Preakness and he finishes second in the Preakness to Tommy Lee.
00:14:53Excuse me, the Kentucky Derby.
00:14:55Finished the second in the Kentucky Derby to Tommy Lee.
00:14:57Then he runs Monday the next week, Preakness week.
00:15:01He runs Monday in a race called the Preakness Prep.
00:15:04And he wins it.
00:15:05Then he runs in the Preakness five days later.
00:15:08And he wins it.
00:15:09Then he runs in the Peter Pan at Belmont State and he finishes third in the Peter Pan.
00:15:14And then he runs in the Belmont and he finishes third in the Belmont.
00:15:19Six races in 46 days for Royal Orbit, who to me is the poster child of how horses were trained and raced then and how they are today.
00:15:31Can we frame that and send it to Bill for Christmas?
00:15:34Well, that's a very interesting statistic.
00:15:42All I can say is they don't make them like they used to, Randy.
00:15:45The TDN Rises Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:15:48Keeneland's September grad, Charlene's Dream, won the grade three Gallaret Stakes at Pimlico on Preakness Day.
00:15:54Supplemental nominations are still open for this year's September sale.
00:15:58And if you're wondering why you should nominate, just listen to Donato Lani, who said that last year's sale, and I quote,
00:16:07was one of the strongest sales I've ever seen at Keeneland.
00:16:10And if we wanted a horse, it simply cost more.
00:16:13This year's Keeneland September sale takes place from September the 8th to September the 20th.
00:16:18Make plans to attend.
00:16:20It all comes down to this.
00:16:23Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
00:16:25The moment that defines the year.
00:16:27When the world's most influential buyers gather.
00:16:31And every decision, every bid, every opportunity shapes the future.
00:16:37At a marketplace that brings the thoroughbred world together.
00:16:41And where futures are forged.
00:16:44Because every moment matters.
00:16:47At the world's yearling sale, Keeneland September.
00:16:51Our fastest horse of the week this week is brought to you by Two Fills,
00:16:56one of the fast sires at Winstar Farm in the 2023 Kentucky Derby.
00:17:01Of course, Two Fills finished second to Mage.
00:17:05In that race, Mage earned a buyer's speed figure of 107, the fastest derby figure,
00:17:11in the last 17 runnings of the race.
00:17:14But in finishing second, Two Fills ran a 105 buyer, which puts him in a lofty category himself.
00:17:21That 105 equals American Pharaoh, authentic, and mind that bird for the second fastest derby figure in 17 years.
00:17:30Pretty good for Two Fills, huh?
00:17:32Two Fills stands at Winstar for $10,000 with his first foals arriving this spring.
00:17:38Now, for the fastest horse, plural, of the week.
00:17:43I believe this is our first three-way tie since we started this segment.
00:17:48These three horses each ran buyer's speed figures of exactly 100.
00:17:53First on Friday was the fast-improving exclaimer Awesome Aaron in the Pimlico special.
00:17:59That was Awesome Aaron's first career stakes victory.
00:18:03Then Saturday on the Preakness undercard, Booth got his fourth straight wire-to-wire win,
00:18:09this time in the Maryland Sprint with Eric Asmussen riding for his father, Steve.
00:18:14And also Saturday at Louisville, Utah Beach made it back-to-back graded stakes scores
00:18:21at a mile-and-a-half on turf, winning the Louisville stakes at Churchill Down.
00:18:25So, we have the fastest horse of the week, times three.
00:18:28Well, as we mentioned earlier, one of the big controversies in this year's Preakness stakes
00:18:37was the bumping involving journalism with Umberto Respoli aboard and the Bob Baffert horse
00:18:43with Flavian Pratt aboard.
00:18:45It was one of those moments that you really had to look away for a second because you think
00:18:49that, you know, this could be really, really bad.
00:18:53Thank goodness it wasn't.
00:18:54Thank goodness nobody got hurt.
00:18:56But, Zoe, you're the perfect person to ask about this.
00:19:00Who was at fault and what did they do wrong?
00:19:04I mean, I'm not one to jump into jockey bashing or anything.
00:19:08If I was riding journalism, I'm going around because at the 3-8 poll, he wasn't traveling.
00:19:15For whatever reason, Umberto was already shoving on him.
00:19:19He was losing ground.
00:19:20I don't know if he didn't like the kickback, if he didn't like it down on the inside or what
00:19:24the deal is, I would have gone around.
00:19:26If you're watching the drone shot, which was a really good way to watch it and really the
00:19:31only one to get a full idea on what's going on.
00:19:35I actually showed a few friends of mine that were thinking that Pratt was majorly at fault.
00:19:40I'm like, no, watch this.
00:19:43Umberto had plenty of room to one go round and I understand that he wanted to save some
00:19:49ground and that's fine.
00:19:50So what goes into a hole and there's tons of room for the hole, but it's like driving
00:19:55a big car into a dead end street.
00:19:57There was no way out of that hole unless he made his own way out and given the momentum
00:20:02and given the horse he was on who, trust me, I have never in my life seen a horse do what
00:20:09he did.
00:20:09He is an absolute monster.
00:20:12Got his head in the hole.
00:20:14And people seem to think that Pratt came over on the horse.
00:20:17I spoke to Pratt right before we came on this podcast and, you know, kind of asked him
00:20:22his thoughts without going overboard.
00:20:25And he said that his horse was turned sideways.
00:20:28When you hit a horse in the ass, journalism hit his horse goal orientated on the ass that
00:20:36turns him sideways, which turns his head and his shoulders into the other horse.
00:20:41You saw Pratt pulling him off.
00:20:43He got knocked sideways.
00:20:44They're just so, so lucky that Jose Ortiz down there on the inside didn't go down.
00:20:51And even Umberto Rispoli said in the press conference afterwards, he just said that he
00:20:55was glad that everyone was okay coming out of that.
00:20:58I asked Pratt, did the steward speak to him?
00:21:02He said, no.
00:21:04I said, does it look like you might get dates?
00:21:06He said, not as far as he knows.
00:21:09Um, he also said, along with me, he was like, said, I was riding my horse.
00:21:16I'm not letting him through there because he stood his ground.
00:21:19He said, honestly, he said, I could have beaten Sam, man.
00:21:22That was his point of view at the time that he was going.
00:21:26And he got stopped by that too, because he was turned sideways.
00:21:29He said, he's glad everyone came out of it.
00:21:31Okay.
00:21:31But he also said, and I quote, he said, in all my years riding, I have never, ever seen
00:21:38a horse do that.
00:21:39He was in awe of journalism and just said he was amazing to get stopped like that and
00:21:45do what he did.
00:21:45So it's all props to the horse.
00:21:47Um, Umberto is very brave, stupid.
00:21:50I don't know what, but they got it done.
00:21:52And ultimately he was the best horse in the race.
00:21:56Yeah.
00:21:57I, I've never seen, well, never is a big word.
00:22:01You seldom see, uh, an industry as evenly divided as it seems to be right now between, uh, about
00:22:09Umberto Rispoli's ride, you know, was it bold?
00:22:13Was it daring?
00:22:13Was it reckless?
00:22:14Was it dangerous?
00:22:15It seems to be right down the middle, including riders.
00:22:18I mean, riders seem to be, to me, what I've seen so far, most riders,
00:22:22riders seem to come down on the side you're taking, Zoe.
00:22:26Um, and I agree with you.
00:22:30Um, I, I will say that obviously having never ridden a horse, at least not in a race, the,
00:22:38uh, there's, you know, split second judgment clearly.
00:22:42And when you look at the drone shot, you can see recently at just inside the half mile pole
00:22:48as they really got to the second turn.
00:22:50He steers out into about the three or four path as if he's going to go around.
00:22:54Right.
00:22:55It looked like that's what his plan was.
00:22:57And then he had a change of heart and ducked to the inside.
00:23:00He had Jerry Bailey.
00:23:03In his ear.
00:23:04Go inside.
00:23:05What I think is that he, like most of us probably thought clever again, was the main rival that
00:23:14he had to beat.
00:23:15And clever again is on the lead on the inside.
00:23:18And I think he was probably counting on clever again, taking him a little bit down the stretch
00:23:24and then a hole opening either inside of clever again, or maybe, you know, a couple of spots
00:23:29outside, I remember whatever for him to slide out and go.
00:23:32What he wasn't counting on is clever again, backing up into his face.
00:23:36Right.
00:23:37Which caused the problem.
00:23:38Now, at that point, I think he's already committed.
00:23:41He could have gone around.
00:23:42I agree.
00:23:43He probably should have gone around.
00:23:45Um, he tried to go through a hole that wasn't there.
00:23:49Yeah, he tried to make a hole, forcibly make a hole.
00:23:54And, um, I think we're just lucky that we didn't have a spill, uh, or a horse injury
00:24:01or something like that.
00:24:02You know, I mean, if it's, if it's reckless and dangerous, if a horse goes down, then it's
00:24:11also reckless and dangerous.
00:24:12If you manage to get through and win anyway, you can't have it both ways.
00:24:17Uh, so I, you know, I will say if he had taken the conservative route, when he saw there
00:24:26was no hole and when clever again was backing up into his face and he had checked the horse
00:24:32like most riders would have journalism doesn't, doesn't win the preakness.
00:24:36So he was rewarded in the end for whatever you want to call it, um, recklessness, whatever.
00:24:43Uh, and the horse, everyone can agree was tremendous in the face of that adversity.
00:24:51So I'm one of the ones who disagrees with the two of you, but I definitely respect your
00:24:57opinion, especially Zoe, because he's got a big, she's got a big advantage on us, Randy.
00:25:02She's been out there and knows what she's talking about.
00:25:05But then the, the, uh, one thing I think that the, the deserves criticism is the stewards.
00:25:11That was the quickest inquiry in the history of horse racing.
00:25:14It was like the opposite of the, the, um, the, the fiasco at the Derby a few years earlier.
00:25:20Um, Zoe, from what you said, the way you described it, if, if that's the, the, the way you saw it
00:25:28and if the stewards saw it that way, should maybe journalism come down?
00:25:32No, I don't know.
00:25:36Honestly.
00:25:37Um, I, I don't know.
00:25:40Andy clever again was going backwards.
00:25:43I, I'm not, I don't know.
00:25:46Lost, you know?
00:25:47Yeah.
00:25:48Um, someone asked me that right after, uh, it was Steve Kornacki, right after the running
00:25:54of the Preakness, when we all got back to the trailer and Steve was of the opinion like
00:25:59me and you Zoe, that it was a, uh, move that sort of crossed the line a little bit by recently.
00:26:04And he thought that the horse should have come down and he asked me my opinion of it.
00:26:08And I said, yeah, I agree with you that it was probably crossing the line, but I wouldn't
00:26:15have taken his number down because I don't think you could conclusively prove that it
00:26:21cost another horse a placing.
00:26:23I mean, maybe you, maybe you, would it have changed the outcome of the race?
00:26:27Journalism wins anyway.
00:26:29Gosker wasn't a, Gosker wasn't a part of it.
00:26:32Clever again was going the other direction.
00:26:34Uh, the only thing you could say is Pratt's horse.
00:26:37Yeah.
00:26:38Yeah.
00:26:39That would be the only one that you could maybe pin a DQ on and say that it might've
00:26:43cost him a placing.
00:26:45Um, but I think that might be kind of a coin toss.
00:26:49So, uh, I, I think I would have left it alone, even though I believe that it was, uh, an iffy
00:26:55move.
00:26:56Well, speaking of jockeys and controversy, Junior Alvarado has appealed the fine levied to him
00:27:02by the Kentucky horse racing commission, this Churchill stewards for quote unquote, uh, overuse
00:27:07of the crop.
00:27:08The rule under Heisa is you cannot hit the horse more than six times.
00:27:12If you do, there's an escalating scale for how many, uh, how much you'll get fined.
00:27:17His fine stands right now at 62,000 has also something to do with the fact that he had
00:27:23a similar ruling against him, uh, at Churchill, uh, back a few months ago.
00:27:29Um, he's Junior says that he didn't hit him, uh, seven times.
00:27:33There was a couple of times he was just, they misinterpreted him being aggressive, showing
00:27:39the horse, the whip and waving in front of, uh, uh, his face.
00:27:43Uh, Randy, you guys have the, you guys have the best equipment.
00:27:46You get the best news.
00:27:47You can probably put, no one can put this thing in under the microscope better than the
00:27:51NBC crew.
00:27:52You think he actually hit him more than seven times?
00:27:55Well, I think eight is what they claim that he hit him.
00:27:57Um, and Junior, um, and Terry Meeks, the head of the jockeys guild came to our set on, uh,
00:28:05Friday.
00:28:05I believe it was on NBC, um, in between, uh, right, right before we went on the air and
00:28:11Junior told us about the appeal, right?
00:28:14Uh, there he's appealing the fact that the fine is doubled from 31 to 62.
00:28:18He thinks that's not proper, um, given the rules and the progression of the rules and all
00:28:24that.
00:28:25And he also is going to appeal as well.
00:28:28As you said, that he hit the horse eight times instead of flagging him or whatever.
00:28:32We, after they left and they walked off the set, uh, I called, uh, I got on the talk back,
00:28:39which we have.
00:28:40And I, and I asked our tape person if they could play for Jerry and I, the isolated replay.
00:28:45We had an ISO camera on sovereignty, the entire length of the stretch.
00:28:50And we had them slow-mo it from the top of the stretch all the way to the wire.
00:28:55And he not only hit him eight times, he hit him nine times.
00:28:58And you don't have to be a brain surgeon to see that the horse is being hit and not flagged
00:29:03and not being shown the whip.
00:29:05I mean, Alvarado was quoted as saying that in the heat of the battle, he wasn't focused,
00:29:10wasn't thinking about how many times he hit him.
00:29:13If he hit him nine times and he wasn't thinking about it, imagine if he had hit him one more
00:29:17and hit him 10 and triggered a disqualification.
00:29:22That's how close he came to being disqualified from the Kentucky Derby over a whip that probably
00:29:28didn't even matter.
00:29:31Take the 62,000 and me glad you weren't DQ'd is what I do.
00:29:35Oh, good point.
00:29:36As always, the TD and Writer's Room also brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association,
00:29:43the PHBA.
00:29:44It was another big weekend for Pennsylvania breads.
00:29:46And when the world was watching at Pimlico on Black-Eyed Susan Day, PA breads won races
00:29:53five, six, and seven for an all-Pennsylvania pick three worth $12,277.
00:30:02And then on Preakness Day, Saturday, Witte capitalized on a hot pace in giving turf to
00:30:07barrel from last to first in the Jim McKay Turf Sprint.
00:30:11Witte is a half-brother to Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint winner Caravelle out of the great
00:30:15Pennsylvania broodmare ZZ ZoomZoom.
00:30:18And Witte has now won 10 of 31 lifetime starts.
00:30:22Congratulations to owner, breeder, trainer Elizabeth Merriman, who basically grew up at
00:30:27Pimlico, as well as co-owners Qatar Racing and Mark DeTample.
00:30:31To learn how to breed your own Pennsylvania champion, check out the 2025 Stallion and Boarding
00:30:36Farm Directory online at pabred.com or call 610-444-1050.
00:30:46PA Bread, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:30:50It's excitement at every step.
00:30:53Roses for Debra just set a new track record.
00:30:56On average, for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year in breeders' awards,
00:31:03restricted races, and owner bonuses.
00:31:05Plus, PA Bread's shine on the world's biggest stage.
00:31:08Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
00:31:11Learn more at pabred.com.
00:31:13On this week's edition of First Things First, I went beyond, guys.
00:31:18I called him, I text him, and then I finally grabbed him in a shed row, and I finally got
00:31:24a hold of trainer Michael McCarthy.
00:31:26Okay, Mike, you're at the Timonium Sale.
00:31:35How's it looking out here?
00:31:36That looks very well.
00:31:38All right.
00:31:38Have you had a chance to look at the replay?
00:31:40What are your thoughts?
00:31:41Has it sunk in that you've won two Preaknesses?
00:31:44Yeah, I've had a chance to watch the replay a couple of times.
00:31:47Obviously, first and foremost, glad that everyone's come out of it in good order.
00:31:50Horses and humans, scary for a second there, but as many times as I've watched it, I still
00:31:58kind of have a hard time believing that we were good enough to kind of get our feet underneath
00:32:02us and finish up the way we did.
00:32:05I think it's astonishing what he did, getting his head in there and powering home.
00:32:11I mean, surely you have to rewind it and watch it on slow motion, didn't you?
00:32:15Yeah, all credit to journalism.
00:32:16You know, average horses don't do that.
00:32:20To do what he did and to be able to persevere after that, I thought was very impressive.
00:32:26You know, and kudos to Humberto as well.
00:32:30There wouldn't have been a whole lot of riders that would have made the decision to go ahead
00:32:33and go through a hole like that.
00:32:35But being said, how did he bounce out of it?
00:32:37You look like you're happy.
00:32:38Is he happy?
00:32:39He seems like he's very good.
00:32:40You know, he's been an easy read ever since he came to us in July of 24, but he's bounced
00:32:47out of it well.
00:32:47His appetite's great.
00:32:48His attitude's good.
00:32:50He seems to be enjoying the fanfare.
00:32:52If you could make up your mind right now, what would it be?
00:32:55Yay or nay for the Balmont?
00:32:56Oh, you'd always want to say yay.
00:32:58You don't get the opportunity to participate in races like that, let alone triple crown races
00:33:03every year.
00:33:05So we'll let him kind of dictate what he's up to, how he's feeling.
00:33:09He's on his way up to Saratoga.
00:33:11So we'll give him a few easy days up there before he gets going and see what he's telling
00:33:16us.
00:33:16Well, that's awesome.
00:33:17Whose barn is he going to?
00:33:18He's going to Todd Fletcher's barn.
00:33:20Of course he is.
00:33:22One more thing.
00:33:22The guys, Bob and Wayne gave you hell for shipping into the Derby winner's store.
00:33:27What do you have to say now?
00:33:28They had me going there.
00:33:29I wasn't sure if they were teasing me or if they were telling the truth or what.
00:33:34So I got a little wound up there for a bit, but apparently we were won over from the Derby
00:33:39winner's stall.
00:33:40So I think the stall is 33 and 34 will be pretty good luck from now on.
00:33:46Although, unfortunately, we won't be at Pimlico next year for the Preakness.
00:33:51So we're going to have to find a new stall for the Derby winner next year.
00:33:55All right, Michael.
00:33:56Thanks so much for your time.
00:33:57Many thanks to trainer Michael McCarthy.
00:34:04Of course, we'll all be keeping tabs to see if journalism does indeed run in the Belmont,
00:34:10but he is certainly ensconced at Saratoga.
00:34:12Todd Fletcher's barn right now.
00:34:15Okay, let's carry on.
00:34:17Santa Anita does continue Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday.
00:34:21Join us for Memorial Weekend Carnival.
00:34:24We'll have three grade ones on Monday.
00:34:26We'll have five steaks on Saturday as we celebrate the Calbreds.
00:34:30We also have a California Beer Festival.
00:34:33I'll be all in on that.
00:34:35Bill can attest to that, along with the Corgi Nationals.
00:34:38So do join us at the Great Race Place this weekend.
00:34:42Well, if you ask some people, the most impressive horse three-year-old-wise on Preakness Day was not necessarily the winner of journalism,
00:34:50but how about Crudo, who won the Sir Barton Stakes in a very impressive effort,
00:34:56and we're pleased to be joined now on the Gainesway Guest of the Week segment of the show by one of his owners, Bobby Flay.
00:35:02And, Bobby, before we get into the nuts and bolts of this horse in that race, maybe we can break some news here.
00:35:09Are you going to the Belmont?
00:35:11I don't make those choices.
00:35:13One of the things I learned a long time ago is I let the people who really know what they're doing make those decisions.
00:35:21So that's in Todd Pletcher we trust.
00:35:25I don't, you know, honestly, I've heard some rumblings about that as a possibility.
00:35:31I don't personally.
00:35:32I think it might be a little early for that horse, but, you know, he showed some talent.
00:35:39That's for sure.
00:35:40And so you have to start thinking about things like that.
00:35:42But it's a long summer, and there's so many great races, you know, during the summer.
00:35:45And it's, I think that we all, when we get excited about something that might be, let's call it better than the usual,
00:35:55you know, you can't wait to see it happen again.
00:35:59And I think sometimes you make decisions that might be a little too quick.
00:36:06But who knows?
00:36:06I don't listen.
00:36:07If Todd calls me up and says, I want to run in the Belmont Stakes, that's where the horse is going.
00:36:12Talk about a horse that's perfectly named to be owned by a chef.
00:36:16My wife and daughter are huge Hamachi Crudo fans with the little citrus sauce.
00:36:22And when I heard Crudo, I thought, oh, then I saw the owner.
00:36:25Okay.
00:36:26That makes sense.
00:36:27But understand that there's been a little bit of a roundabout way that you still have him and you're racing him after purchasing him as a yearling.
00:36:37Tell us about that.
00:36:37So, Tom McGreevy, who has picked out some of the great horses of our generation, one of them being one of my favorite Phillies to watch run, Songbird,
00:36:52has been helping me.
00:36:54And he was, it was sort of my first season with Tom.
00:36:58Um, unfortunately, my bloodstock agent, James Delahook, passed away suddenly, um, over in the UK a handful of years ago.
00:37:06And, uh, and, uh, Tom was nice enough to kind of help me out.
00:37:14And I don't, I don't really, I don't really buy cults.
00:37:18I don't race cults in, you know, as, as a rule, so to speak, unless I get somehow stuck with them, so to speak, you know, um, I, I, I breed a lot and, um, and I, and they're always for sale.
00:37:30And so I don't really, I don't really play that game.
00:37:34But in this case, I'm not really sure why, but I decided I was, I wanted to pin hook a few horses.
00:37:40What happens when you go to these sales, like all of a sudden you start getting creative.
00:37:43A lot of time in between waiting for your horses to come through the ring.
00:37:47So a couple of bourbons later, let's pin hook some horses.
00:37:53So, you know, I, sire power is very important to me.
00:37:57Justify had just started showing that he, he was going to have talent outside of his racing record as a sire.
00:38:05And, um, you know, Tom said, I love this horse's horse's walk.
00:38:10Um, it was a wheeling and, um, I paid 350,000.
00:38:14He was the most expensive justify wheeling that season that went through the ring.
00:38:20And, um, I said, okay.
00:38:22And then justify became even more successful over, over the next handful of months as a sire.
00:38:29He was winning in Europe.
00:38:30He was winning in the U S it was, I was like, wow, we're going to ring the bell here.
00:38:35And we took him to the Saratoga sale, which is my, you know, one of my favorite sales.
00:38:43And, uh, nobody looked at him.
00:38:45I mean, honestly, it was, it was unbelievable.
00:38:48And this is the thing that you, we all know, which is so funny and crazy, which is that, you know, we have a lot of experts in this field.
00:38:55And, you know, everybody said, oh, he's too short legged, you know, and he didn't look short legged the other day, but, you know, it's just one of those things you just don't know.
00:39:06And he just wasn't, he wasn't matching up, I guess, physically with some of the amazing physicals in a sale like Saratoga.
00:39:14You know, there's a couple of hundred horses.
00:39:15They're all incredibly beautiful.
00:39:16So, I mean, you know, I saw Baffert in the lobby at the Four Seasons the other day, you know, in Baltimore and, you know, obviously he's rooting for justify as a sire.
00:39:27And he's like, we need a good justified dirt horse.
00:39:30And I was like, yeah, well, I might actually have one.
00:39:32And it's like, yeah, I heard about this horse.
00:39:34I was like, I said, I distinctly remember you walking right by him at Saratoga and not looking at him.
00:39:40So, um, anyway, we took him to the two-year-old sale.
00:39:45Well, um, we scratched him there, too.
00:39:47He didn't have any interest.
00:39:48And I just said, okay, well, only one thing left to do.
00:39:51Let's put some colors on him.
00:39:53And he started working with Todd.
00:39:56And the thing, one of the things I like, I like a lot of things about Todd Pletcher.
00:39:59Um, he's an amazing horseman.
00:40:01He's a great guy.
00:40:02He's so professional.
00:40:04It's all the things that you hear about Todd is beyond true.
00:40:08And he always lets you know where you are with what you have.
00:40:11And I think that that's invaluable.
00:40:13And he told me right off the bat, he's like, you know, this horse is not big, but he doesn't, he doesn't train, um, small.
00:40:20And, uh, I went to Palm Beach Downs a couple of times to watch the horse work.
00:40:25And the thing that I realized, I mean, listen, I don't know what I'm looking at really, but I know, and I know a significant gallop out when I see it like anybody else.
00:40:34And I was just like, God, this horse just seems to like get better as the, as the furlongs click off.
00:40:40And I think we saw a little bit of that the other day.
00:40:43I mean, they, they were not, they were not going slow.
00:40:46I mean, they were, it was, it was 23, 46 and they were on his back.
00:40:49And when he, when he turned for home, he just kicked away, you know, he just, and he, and if you watch the gallop out, he galloped out by 20.
00:40:57I mean, it was crazy.
00:40:58And it was a couple of very good horses in that race.
00:41:01You know, the Invictus, they paid a million two for him.
00:41:04Um, and you know, obviously while bread had a, had some fast numbers in his last race, he was, that's why he was three to five.
00:41:10But, uh, listen, on, on every day is a different day, but on Saturday, he, he, he, he showed that he had, he had some talent.
00:41:19It's really nice to watch.
00:41:20Well, Bobby, he was pretty amazing on Saturday, winning by seven lengths.
00:41:24And I can attest that he has grown because I did look at him with Lynn Hancock at the Stone Farm consignment in Saratoga.
00:41:32I did also look at journalism who sold at the same sale for 825,000.
00:41:37So he's definitely grown up a lot and, uh, I'm glad to see him doing good things.
00:41:44Um, we were watching a little bit of the telecast for NBC and watch you being interviewed afterwards.
00:41:49And we're going to talk about this as well.
00:41:52The triple crown spacing, you were there, you witnessed it.
00:41:55What are your thoughts?
00:41:56I couldn't hear it because everything was going on, but what are your thoughts with the triple crown and the spacing?
00:42:02Because you're going to be preaching to the choir here for all of us.
00:42:05I mean, look, I, uh, I love the traditions of this sport.
00:42:11It's one of the things I love about it.
00:42:13And that's why when you see me at a, at a racetrack, I am dressed up because I feel like the, the sport and the horses and all the people around it deserve that respect.
00:42:23That's just me.
00:42:24Now I have some friends of mine who are like, I'm not putting a jacket on.
00:42:27I'm like, well, you're not sitting with me then.
00:42:29But, but, you know, I, I like the tradition of horse racing.
00:42:32I think there's, there's something about it beyond just, you know, how fast are the horses and can you make, and can you cash a bet?
00:42:39I just love the whole sort of pageantry of it all.
00:42:42So, um, but in this case, um, I, I, I would, I would like to defect from tradition and this is not a new concept, but, you know, first Saturday of those three months to me is, is the move.
00:42:57And I, I know that there's a lot of pushback from, you know, from Naira about schedule and this and that.
00:43:05And my feeling is really that nothing else matters as much than the triple crown.
00:43:10It's not even close.
00:43:12It's, it's 50 lengths back to the most important race after that.
00:43:16Um, and we need to take care of the triple crown.
00:43:20If we want people to pay attention to the sport beyond the people that actually already pay attention to the sport.
00:43:25And that's always been my goal.
00:43:27When I was on the board of directors of the burritos cup, when I was on the board of directors of Naira at the same time, it was always my goal to not so much please the people already in the game.
00:43:37We were of course trying to do that as well, but I wanted other people to kind of take notice of it.
00:43:43Cause we already have the people that, that love horse racing.
00:43:46I mean, let's face it.
00:43:47They're going to love horse racing for probably their whole life.
00:43:50It's just one of those things that gets in you and it's hard to shake it.
00:43:53But it, you know, as somebody who pays a lot of attention to marketing, hospitality and, and sort of, you know, events, so to speak, where people enjoy themselves.
00:44:05I want people to get tied onto the triple crown for as long as possible.
00:44:10So instead of it being a five week thing, why not make it something that's kind of goes for a lot of the summer.
00:44:17And if they have to push back some races at Saratoga, so be it.
00:44:20It doesn't matter.
00:44:21It really doesn't, really doesn't matter.
00:44:24And so I don't, I don't, I don't accept that excuse.
00:44:27I think that, I think that we have to take care of the triple crown and everybody needs to get together and make it happen.
00:44:32If you can't run in four weeks and you can't run in four weeks.
00:44:35But I think that four weeks is a fair, I think, I just think that we'll have so many more horses lining up for the Preakness.
00:44:41And let's face it, the Preakness probably gets talked about the least of the three, right?
00:44:47The Derby is the Derby.
00:44:48And then Belmont is, it's a New York race.
00:44:51It's the Belmont Stakes, the Test of Champions, all those things.
00:44:55But the Preakness is incredibly important because if, if somehow the, the Kentucky Derby winner, as you know, can win the Preakness, man, we have everybody paying attention.
00:45:04It doesn't even matter if they actually win the triple crown.
00:45:07The fact that they are attempting the triple crown is a big deal for us because we're just going to get that many more eyeballs.
00:45:14And people say, stay, stay, they pay attention, you know, for, for that longer period of time.
00:45:20So, you know, first Saturday of May, first Saturday of June, first Saturday of July.
00:45:25I mean, just, you know, July 4th, Belmont Stakes going for the triple crown.
00:45:29I mean, what a party that would be.
00:45:30I mean, what I've always thought, Bobby, is that what made the triple crown what it is, is, are the rivalries that began in the Kentucky Derby and then continued on to the Preakness and capture the imagination of the public.
00:45:45To me, the way I look at it now, if we get another affirmed in Aladar, Aladar probably skips the Preakness and waits for the Belmont.
00:45:52That's right.
00:45:53Easy go or Sunday silenced.
00:45:54Ali Sheba bet twice.
00:45:55I mean, those are the rivalries that, that really captured the, the attention of the people that you pointed out, right?
00:46:02The people that aren't in the business that are the ancillary sports fans that we're not getting now.
00:46:08Yeah.
00:46:09You know, Randy, I, listen, I have, everybody has opinions about what's right and wrong and we'll never always decide.
00:46:19We'll never always agree as to what it is.
00:46:21But I focus in on very few things when, when people ask me, ask me my opinions, really, I just want to have a good time, you know, in the horse business.
00:46:30But when people ask my opinions, I, I, like, obviously I have lots of thoughts on lots of things, but the things that I really talk about are the three-year-olds and mainly the three-year-old cults, because that's the thing that people pay attention to.
00:46:45And you guys on NBC spend untold millions of dollars marketing these three-year-olds that we've never heard of before, starting with all the preps into the triple crown races and then the post triple crown races, like the Travers and the Haskell and all that.
00:47:05I suggested, there was a lot of controversy about this suggestion when I was on the board of directors of Breeders' Cup, I suggested another race.
00:47:15You probably, you might recall this.
00:47:18Three-year-olds, right.
00:47:19That let's have the Breeders' Cup Derby at the end.
00:47:21Right.
00:47:21And I said, and it was, I got a lot of pushback from people who have been sort of in the Breeders' Cup world for a long time, because it was almost like I was, I was insulting the classic.
00:47:33And I think that the Breeders' Cup has a great opportunity to utilize all the marketing that NBC and all, and of course, we'll, you know, Fox and I was at the Belmont, that all these networks have been spending all this time, energy, and money promoting the names of these three-year-olds that we all know their names.
00:47:55And people that don't actually follow horse racing, those are the horses they know.
00:47:59They don't know all the horses.
00:48:01They might have known them last year for a minute, but now they don't really know them.
00:48:05And so, I mean, I don't, you know, I'm sure there's, like, White Abario is a good horse, but I'm sure a lot of people that don't follow horse racing are talking about him.
00:48:12They're talking about sovereignty.
00:48:13They're talking about journalism.
00:48:15That race was spectacular on Saturday.
00:48:17I mean, what a performance.
00:48:18And, you know, so we have an opportunity to really sort of cash in in terms of getting eyeballs to these horses that have the spotlight on them.
00:48:28Why kind of just give it away at the end?
00:48:31That's my feeling.
00:48:32And that's the only thing I really sort of opine on in terms of, you know, how we can think about the schedule slightly bit differently that would really be effective.
00:48:42That's it.
00:48:43You know, the other thing, Randy, I wanted to say to you, I love when you're on NBC.
00:48:51You give us, you give people great information.
00:48:54It's a balance for you guys, right?
00:48:56I'm sure you guys discuss this all the time in your, you know, pre-production meetings, which is how do we keep the casual viewer interested,
00:49:07but then also talk about, you know, the quarter and 46 and change, right?
00:49:14Where those people are not going to understand that.
00:49:16But one of the things I think that people are really interested in is how much people pay for the horses.
00:49:22And you always have that information at your fingertips, which I love.
00:49:25And it's one of the things, it's like when you, whenever I do like an article for like a money magazine or like Forbes or something like that,
00:49:35they always want numbers because people are interested in what things cost.
00:49:40Yeah.
00:49:40They are.
00:49:41So when you say, oh, he paid a million two for this horse as a yearling.
00:49:45He really, you know, they went all out at the sale or this horse in the Kentucky Derby costs $2,500.
00:49:53People love this because like they, they, they know the lure of like people spending lots of money and somebody getting lucky.
00:50:02But like it's, you know, all the things in between, I think those are, I think that I just want to commend you.
00:50:07Cause I think those are great things to talk about that keeps the viewer that doesn't really necessarily know what a,
00:50:14what a quarter mile should be run in, but they know what they know what a dollar amount is and what I think it's very cool.
00:50:20And you can watch a $2,500 horse run against, you know, a $5 million yearling.
00:50:25You know, it's great.
00:50:26Well, thanks.
00:50:27Thanks for saying that.
00:50:27And then when the $2,500 horse beats the million two yearling, then people are like, holy cow.
00:50:33I can do this too.
00:50:35Exactly.
00:50:36I love that.
00:50:37Oh, that's pretty awesome.
00:50:39I've just got like a couple more questions.
00:50:40First of all, thank you for wearing the hat because we know that Bill absolutely loves the New York Yankees.
00:50:47Where are you?
00:50:50What are you working on right now?
00:50:53Right this very second?
00:50:55Well, I don't know.
00:50:56In general?
00:50:57I mean, you know, I, obviously I've been on the Food Network for 30 years.
00:51:00So there's always constant production happening there.
00:51:02I have a bunch of shows on the Food Network.
00:51:05I just completed my, my 18th cookbook.
00:51:09Um, and, uh, you know, so that's out, it's called chapter one, ironically.
00:51:13Um, and then, um, let's see, what else am I up to?
00:51:17Uh, I'm actually, I'm, I'm in Atlanta right now.
00:51:20We're, we're shooting an episode of Family Feud, uh, for one of my cooking shows.
00:51:24It's sort of like two kind of chefs going, you know, going, going at it.
00:51:28So that's kind of fun to do, um, you know, stuff like that.
00:51:31But then listen, I, I, I got, I got, I got a lot of my shooting done in the first quarter
00:51:37so I can go to some of these fun races.
00:51:38I was just in, I was just in York actually.
00:51:41Oh, lovely.
00:51:42Oh, tell us about Go-Go Boots.
00:51:44Go-Go Boots.
00:51:45Yeah.
00:51:45Um, she's a Philly that I bought at, um, a breeze up sale in France.
00:51:51Okay.
00:51:51This is, so this is like one of those stories.
00:51:54I never picked my own horses ever.
00:51:56Right.
00:51:56I mean, I, I know a lot about pedigrees, but from a physical standpoint, that's when I
00:52:01bring in somebody who actually knows what they're looking at.
00:52:03But, you know, I was in my country house last August during the breeze up sale in Arcana
00:52:10in France.
00:52:12And, you know, it was, it was probably early afternoon or something and, um, it was summer.
00:52:17So I think, you know, we broke out the rosé early and I was like, maybe I'm going to buy
00:52:22a horse today.
00:52:23And I started watching the breezes on the, you know, videos.
00:52:26And, and as I said before, I really love Sire Power.
00:52:30And this was, this horse is by Knight of Thunder, who's one of Dubawi's best sons.
00:52:33And he's winning lots of races in Europe.
00:52:36And, um, I watched the breeze.
00:52:38I thought the breeze looked good.
00:52:41I'm not sure if it did or didn't, but I thought it did at that moment.
00:52:45I had the horse vetted and then I bought her.
00:52:47I bought her and she turned out to be like one of John Gosden's best three old Phillies
00:52:51this year.
00:52:52I mean.
00:52:52That's awesome.
00:52:54Complete luck.
00:52:55I'm complete luck.
00:52:57Oh, where's she headed?
00:52:58Sorry?
00:52:59Where's she headed now?
00:53:01It's a good question.
00:53:02She's got an Oaks entry.
00:53:04Uh, she ran third in the grade three, which is, um, uh, the, the race at York, the grade
00:53:10three York from last week is a trial for the Oaks.
00:53:13So she's got an Oaks entry.
00:53:15So it's either going to be the Oaks or most probably the Ribbersdale at Royal Ascot, by
00:53:21the way, either one of those, like I always say like winning is, I don't even think about
00:53:27winning participating in races like this is everything for me.
00:53:30It's fantastic.
00:53:32Great.
00:53:33So for people, for people that might stumble upon this on YouTube, let's say Bobby that
00:53:38don't know anything about horse racing.
00:53:40They're like, Hey, there's Bobby Flay.
00:53:42Give people an idea of the extent of your involvement in the sport.
00:53:46Like how many horses in training?
00:53:47How many brood mares?
00:53:50Uh, that's a good question.
00:53:52Um, that's unfortunately, I don't know the answer to that.
00:53:55That's probably a bad sign.
00:53:56But, um, I think, uh, first of all, I've been doing this for a long time and a lot of
00:54:03people see me and they're like, Oh, he probably just kind of got in this last year or something
00:54:06like that.
00:54:06But I, I have the story that many people have, which is, you know, my grandfather took
00:54:13me to Saratoga when I was 15 years old and I was like, what is this world?
00:54:18And I've been going there ever since.
00:54:20Um, and then after I actually went to, you know, um, went to work to make a living, I started
00:54:27dabbling in, you know, taking a, you know, a piece of a horse here and there.
00:54:31And I, then I decided at some point I really wanted to do it myself.
00:54:34I have, um, at this point, I probably have like eight, eight brood mares in Europe and
00:54:41maybe the same amount in, in Kentucky with stone farm.
00:54:45So I have about, I don't know, 15, 16 mares or something like that.
00:54:49And as you know, that multiplies your numbers right now, you have yearlings, wheeling and
00:54:54the mares, right?
00:54:55So it's like a lot.
00:54:57Um, and I love going to the sales.
00:55:00I love selling, I love selling horses.
00:55:02I love raising the horses.
00:55:04I think it's, I think it's a spectacular thing to me.
00:55:06I'm even more interested in, in the breeding part of it than the racing part of it only
00:55:10because, um, it's so, it's so wonderful to see these families develop over, over time.
00:55:17I mean, and then my daughter can breed out of the same families and, and then, and hopefully
00:55:21her, you know, her children will breed out of things that I started many, many years ago.
00:55:26It's, it's an amazing thing to, to, to be a part of.
00:55:29And the great thing about breeding for me is I can sell a horse.
00:55:33Like I sold a horse to, uh, um, to somebody who, and the horse ran last week and they pay
00:55:40you for the horse and you can root for the horse because you have the family, you have
00:55:44the mom, you have the sisters, you have the brother.
00:55:47So it's, it's really, it's actually a, it's a, it's a very wonderful way to participate.
00:55:51All right.
00:55:52Well, we want to, despite wearing the, uh, New York Yankee hat, we're very pleased that
00:55:57Bobby Flay was able to spend some time with us today on the TDN writers room podcast.
00:56:02Bobby, thanks so much.
00:56:03Uh, I don't know how you do it.
00:56:05I sometimes, I think there's five of you because you're in so many, 800 different shows and
00:56:10here and there, but we really appreciate you coming on, uh, today and let's go Red Sox.
00:56:15Yes, exactly.
00:56:16I'll see you at a Yankee stadium.
00:56:17Okay.
00:56:21Our guest of the week segment is brought to you by Gainesway home of charge it.
00:56:27You remember charge it signature victory.
00:56:30I think you should that astounding 23 length romp in the Dwyer stakes, which earned a charge
00:56:36it, a buyer speed figure of one 11, the highest of his career, but charge it also top 100
00:56:41on the buyer scale on three other occasions with his one Oh six in his suburban win tying
00:56:47for the fastest buyer at a mile and a quarter in 2023.
00:56:52Charge it as a son of tap it.
00:56:54And he stands at Gainesway for $12,500 Gainesway power, passion, performance.
00:57:09Charge it is pouring it on winning the Dwyer by the length of the stretch.
00:57:13Charge it wins it convincingly in this grade two suburban.
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00:57:44workouts, all at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox.
00:57:52Everything you need to be informed, be smart, bet smart with first TV.
00:58:01It is now time for the first TV work of the week.
00:58:08As we take a look at Baeza, he was third in the Kentucky Derby on May the 3rd at Churchill
00:58:13Downs by less than two lengths to sovereignty.
00:58:16He returned to the work tab on Friday with a very easy half mile drill for trainer John
00:58:21Sheriffs.
00:58:22He was also actually joined on the tab by fellow three-year-old Barnes who worked for the first
00:58:27time since finishing the last of five in the grade one Santa Anita Derby.
00:58:33Baeza was credited with a full foul on work in 53-3.
00:58:36Don't worry about the time.
00:58:38John does crazy things like that all the time.
00:58:40He might work in 1-11 next week.
00:58:42He started to start in the Belmont Stakes on June the 7th.
00:58:46Baeza's half-brother, Doorknock, won last year's Belmont Stakes, contested like this year
00:58:52at a mile and a quarter in Saratoga.
00:58:55All right, let's talk about Pimico.
00:58:58This was the last Preakness ever to be run at Pimico.
00:59:01And some people were actually, I thought, my feeling on it is good riddance.
00:59:07You should have closed the place down 35 years ago.
00:59:10And, you know, it was an eyesore.
00:59:11But a lot of people were, you know, sentimental and nostalgic.
00:59:15I mean, this is where they had the great match race with Seabiscuit, where you had so many
00:59:20wonderful, memorable Preaknesses.
00:59:22It's the new Pimico is going to be in the same spot, same footprint.
00:59:26And if ever a racetrack in this country needed to be rebuilt, it's Pimico.
00:59:31So I say good riddance to the dump.
00:59:36How was your trek to the press box, Randy?
00:59:39You mean the 2,000 stairs because the elevator has been out of order for two years?
00:59:45Yeah, I made one more trip to the press box for old time's sake and videoed it.
00:59:51It's the best place in the whole dump as far as I'm concerned.
00:59:54But what do you think, Zoe?
00:59:58Yeah, it'll be a whole different thing at Laurel next year.
01:00:04I have no idea how it's going to work because it is a much smaller facility.
01:00:10I don't know.
01:00:11I'm wishing them the best of luck with it.
01:00:13But it was a little bit nostalgic being at Pimico knowing, you know, this is the end
01:00:19of an era, but they're still going to have a racetrack in the same place.
01:00:23It's still good.
01:00:23They're not moving the racetrack and they're just making it better.
01:00:28Right.
01:00:28So, yeah, you can say goodbye to it, but it's not going anywhere.
01:00:32It was starting to irritate me a little bit, to be honest with you.
01:00:35The last Preakness at Pimlico.
01:00:37No, it's not.
01:00:39It's Pimlico is going to be there.
01:00:42The racetrack is going to be there.
01:00:43The horses are going to be running there on the same site.
01:00:45It's a freaking building, for crying out loud.
01:00:47And it's a dump.
01:00:49It's not like Fenway Park or Wrigley Field or Lambeau Field or any of these places that
01:00:56have been, or Saratoga or Monmouth or Santa Anita, these places that are old but have been
01:01:04properly cared for and have been treated with kindness and respect and upgraded.
01:01:08Oh, my God.
01:01:10No.
01:01:11I mean, this place needs to go and it's going to be a brand new place and it's going to be
01:01:15better.
01:01:15It's not the last Preakness at Pimlico.
01:01:18It's going to be awesome.
01:01:20Well, some sad news in horse racing this week as we learned that just this week, Larry DeMeritt
01:01:25passed away.
01:01:26His story last year in the Triple Crown in the Kentucky Derby is, again, one of those memorable
01:01:30stories that horse racing is so good at producing.
01:01:34He came from the Bahamas, came to the United States to be a horse trainer.
01:01:37He won his races here and there but never got close to having a good horse.
01:01:41And at the same time, he also, starting in 1996, so we're talking 31 years ago, was first
01:01:48diagnosed with a form of blood cancer.
01:01:50So he battled that off and on for 31 years.
01:01:54And Zoe, I know you knew him really well.
01:01:57And I was watching a lot of YouTube clips and everything to prepare for this, to talk about
01:02:03him today.
01:02:03I didn't know the gentleman at all, but he was never not smiling.
01:02:08He's the cutest smile with that gap in his teeth.
01:02:11And you could tell, you don't have to know the guy to know that he's a sweetheart.
01:02:17So I'm sure he'll be missed.
01:02:20Larry was infectious.
01:02:22He was just the most gregarious, infectious kind of human you'd ever want to meet.
01:02:27His laugh, his smile.
01:02:29I first met him in 1996.
01:02:31We shared a barn down at Keeland on Rice Road.
01:02:36That was when nobody wanted to be down in the ABCs down there.
01:02:39Now you can't buy your way in that spot.
01:02:42The Dolphin's taking it over.
01:02:43So I shared a barn with him.
01:02:45I was working for Chris Speckett, and he was on the backside of us.
01:02:49And just a great guy.
01:02:51Bahamian, first Bahamian to run a horse in the Kentucky Derby.
01:02:54We were all so happy last year when West Saratoga got to the Derby,
01:02:59because that was always his dream.
01:03:01Always he would talk about the Kentucky Derby.
01:03:05I've known him since 96, and he's had cancer and defied the odds throughout.
01:03:10He loved God, horses, and women.
01:03:15He survived by his wife, Inga.
01:03:18He always came up to you with a smile on his face.
01:03:21His first wife, sadly, died of cancer a good few years ago as well.
01:03:25So he survived a lot and always had faith, which is something that I always found remarkable
01:03:31because, you know, I would have been looking up to the heavens and been like,
01:03:34Jesus Christ, again?
01:03:36Like, you beat it once.
01:03:38He beat it twice.
01:03:39He beat it three times.
01:03:40Like, what does this poor guy have to do?
01:03:42I'd have been praying to a different kind of God.
01:03:44Because for 30 years, he battled it.
01:03:47He was just an amazing human being.
01:03:50And there's not one person, I think, that ever met Larry that would say he was a bad guy.
01:03:56That smile, you hit the nail on the head.
01:03:58Yeah.
01:03:58I didn't know him well at all, but I came by the barn a few times last year with West Saratoga.
01:04:04And really, all you need to know about him is that he was obviously so excited about having a horse in the Kentucky Derby.
01:04:13And he wasn't going to miss it for anything.
01:04:16And at the same time, West Saratoga was running in the Derby.
01:04:20Larry was going through chemotherapy.
01:04:22And he would come to the track and be absolutely exhausted.
01:04:26Yeah.
01:04:27And he had a lounge chair where he could lay down just outside of the shed row.
01:04:31And he could make it about halfway through the morning.
01:04:34And then he had to lay down and rest his body.
01:04:37And he was laying there at the barn.
01:04:39And everybody that came into the barn was greeted with a smile and that laugh.
01:04:44Even when he was laying in his chair, you know, just exhausted because of his chemo.
01:04:49That's the kind of guy he was.
01:04:50It was really cool.
01:04:52He was determined to get back to the Derby again.
01:04:54He's got a very nice two-year-old that ran second on Derby day.
01:04:58My good friend, Moret, actually bought him a horse in January for $1,000.
01:05:03And he said that was going to be his next Derby horse.
01:05:05He said one other thing.
01:05:07He said, God forbid I go to heaven where there's no horses.
01:05:11So let's hope he's in a heaven with plenty of horses.
01:05:14Very good.
01:05:15And the TD in Writers' Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:05:21Congratulations to Terry Finley and West Point Partners for not only Sandman's performance in the Preakness,
01:05:28he bounced back with a solid third-place finish,
01:05:31but also that dominant victory by Reagan's Wit in the James W. Murphy Stakes,
01:05:37two races before the Preakness.
01:05:39Sandman and Reagan's Wit are now being pointed for stakes appearances at Saratoga this summer,
01:05:45which should be exciting.
01:05:46In the meantime, West Point has been active at the Fasig-Tipton Mid-Atlantic sale of two-year-olds in training.
01:05:52You can see all the stables' latest additions at www.westpointtb.com.
01:06:02All the thrills.
01:06:06Fraction of the Bills.
01:06:07Experience the power of the partnership.
01:06:16Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:06:24West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:06:28Visit westpointtb.com.
01:06:30Well, that's a wrap on this week's show, a Preakness follow-up.
01:06:37I want to thank my guest, Bobby Flay, the Gainsway Guest of the Week,
01:06:41along with my partner, Zoe Cabin, Randy Moss,
01:06:44and the people who work behind the scenes to make this show all go,
01:06:47the producers and directors, Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:06:52Well, two and a half weeks to go to the Belmont Stakes.
01:06:56Can't wait.
01:06:57We'll talk to you next week.
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