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Jockey Junior Alvarado joined this week's TDN Writers' Room to discuss his win aboard Sovereignty in the GI Belmont Stakes and the long road it took to get back to the winner's circle after an injury earlier this year.
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00:00:00For the love of the worse, for generations to come.
00:00:23And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast presented by Keeneland.
00:00:32My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:34I am a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News and the world's but biggest.
00:00:39Can you see that?
00:00:40Yes.
00:00:41Bookum Dano fan.
00:00:44Is that Jack Lord?
00:00:45That's Jack Lord.
00:00:46All right.
00:00:46Yep.
00:00:47Randy knows.
00:00:49I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports.
00:00:53Joined, as always, by my enthusiastic sidekick, Lucy the Wonder Dog.
00:00:58Zoe Kavman here with First TV and First Racing.
00:01:01I'm at the palatial Rose residence here.
00:01:05We're going to get in the pool in just a little bit out here in Southern California.
00:01:08Sierra Madre, when you get just the single of me, you'll just see what a fabulous place I'm in.
00:01:14It's almost like being in Hawaii.
00:01:16Don't be jealous.
00:01:17I mean, you know, you're sitting in dark holes back there.
00:01:19That's probably 30 degrees where you are, Randy.
00:01:23It's actually 80.
00:01:24Wow.
00:01:26Here in suburban Minneapolis.
00:01:2880 degrees.
00:01:29That's why Lucy's so enthusiastic.
00:01:32She likes it.
00:01:32All right.
00:01:34So, guys, obviously, the big story over the weekend was the Belmont Stakes.
00:01:37And it's been a really interesting triple crown.
00:01:40And there were so many storylines out of this one.
00:01:43But I think the one that we have to start on, and it can lead the debate in a couple other directions.
00:01:48Did the decision by Godolphin and Belmont not to run in the Preakness cost the horse and cost horse racing a triple crown winner?
00:01:57Now, my obvious answer is it's too hypothetical.
00:02:00You have no idea.
00:02:02But I do think it's something that needs to be explored.
00:02:04I mean, this was not Rich Strike.
00:02:05He was never going to win the triple crown.
00:02:07This is a horse who proved to be the very best of the three-year-old bunch.
00:02:11And if he ran in the Preakness, I certainly think he would have won it.
00:02:15Hey, you say it's hypothetical, obviously.
00:02:18But I would have to say, yes, that the horse probably would have swept the triple crown.
00:02:24I mean, twice he took the best the journalism had to offer in the Kentucky Derby and in the Belmont.
00:02:32He tracked him.
00:02:33He caught him from behind.
00:02:34He passed him.
00:02:36He outfinished journalism in both races, decisively so in the Belmont stakes.
00:02:41Even if sovereignty had danced all three dances as journalism did, maybe his win in the Belmont, I think, might have been a little less decisive.
00:02:51But I think he still probably would have won anyway.
00:02:55And two things, I think, really sort of sealed the deal when you talk about this particular topic.
00:03:01Number one is all the trouble journalism got into in the Preakness, right?
00:03:05I mean, if sovereignty beat journalism convincingly twice when journalism had clean trips, you'd have to think he probably would have beaten him in the Preakness when journalism had all that trouble.
00:03:15And then secondly, Bill Mott's own comments that sovereignty was the kind of horse who was robust enough to handle three races in five weeks.
00:03:24He just decided not to do that.
00:03:28I don't think it's a question we're ever going to know in its entirety.
00:03:32And Bill Mott himself said he just simply said he closed the door on any reporter that wanted to ask and said, I am not going down that road.
00:03:39And he simply went, Bill shuts the door, you're not opening that door.
00:03:44So Bill is refusing to discuss it.
00:03:47There's many ways to look at it.
00:03:48You could say had sovereignty won the Derby like he did and run in the Preakness, what are the chances that journalism is going to run in the Preakness?
00:04:00So journalism skips the Preakness and then he's the fresh horse running in the Belmont Stakes.
00:04:06So you've got sovereignty with two legs of the Triple Crown.
00:04:09You've got a fresh journalism who has been beat fair and square by him, but he might have been a little bit fresher.
00:04:15You just don't know.
00:04:17There is no simple way that you could possibly say he would have won it.
00:04:22So I'm siding with Bill Mott and just not going down that road because anything can happen.
00:04:27The one thing I will say is it does leave the door open for moving the Triple Crown when you get an entity like a Dolphin and Bill Mott simply refusing to run in it with what they had was the best horse.
00:04:42The three entities of horse racing that own each leg need to sit down and discuss a better way forward.
00:04:48Well, and since New York has been the fly in the ointment so far, you know, they've been the one that has prevented the Triple Crown spacing from being changed.
00:04:57They were the victims, really.
00:04:59I mean, they were more the victims than the Preakness because, I mean, they by all rights very possibly might have had a sovereignty going for the Triple Crown in the Belmont Stakes.
00:05:11And just imagine at Saratoga what that atmosphere would have been.
00:05:16It's normally fantastic anyway, but that would have been just off the charts.
00:05:20And think about this, too.
00:05:22Say if we do wind up having it the first Saturday in July, and I know it rains a lot and it rains a lot at Saratoga in the summer.
00:05:29But when the Belmont is at Belmont in the summertime, is there not less rain there than there is up in Saratoga?
00:05:36So say they had it on July 1st, are the chances of it being a nice sunny day a slight bit better on the 1st of July rather than the 1st of June?
00:05:46I'm just going to say yes.
00:05:48Perhaps.
00:05:48I'm just going to say yes.
00:05:49And I just want to add on, I totally agree with what both of you guys said, and I just want to add my two cents.
00:05:54And, you know, I'm not trying, by raising this question, I'm not trying to blame anybody.
00:06:00I'm not blaming Belmont.
00:06:02I'm not blaming Godolphin.
00:06:02I think the blame goes to the system that refuses to, you know, if Naira is the bad guy here or whatever, but we have created a triple crown where the modern trainer, Bill Mott, among them, does not want to run three times in five weeks.
00:06:22And this is not going to be the last time this is going to happen.
00:06:25And so I think the finger of blame is pointed to the inability to stretch the triple crown out.
00:06:32And Randy's right.
00:06:33I mean, Belmont, who is the one we believe is holding it up, they would have had an extra 25,000 people in the stands.
00:06:40I don't know if they could have done that.
00:06:42It might have been sold out.
00:06:43But they would have had the extra, you know, just oomph of the triple crown, which is something that we all, you know, want to see every single time.
00:06:51So, no, that's where the blame lies.
00:06:56And it's really, you know, this is really building.
00:07:00If all goes well, I'm going to find some wood to knock on here.
00:07:02I mean, what's the chances all these horses are going to stay healthy?
00:07:05But imagine with the older horse division that we have right now and how good and how strong the older horse division is.
00:07:12And then you mix in sovereignty and journalism and, you know, maybe Baeza will be improving further by the time we get to that part of the year.
00:07:21And Nysos, I mean, my God, it's shaping up to be just an unbelievable run to the Breeders' Cup Classic if we can keep all these horses healthy.
00:07:30Well, Randy, how about before that, are we going to see a rematch between journalism and sovereignty anytime soon?
00:07:39I would think the best place for that to happen would probably be the Travers.
00:07:43But again, you know, you're not going to get any kind of commitments out of the camps, right?
00:07:47Then again, Mott said he did want to go and run the Travers.
00:07:51Zoe, what do you think they'll do with journalism now?
00:07:55Well, he's going to come back to California, get a little bit of a break.
00:07:59And it would be fabulous to see a rematch in the Travers.
00:08:03I mean, Whitey's mentioned the Haskell, the Travers, the Jim Dandy, a whole plethora of races.
00:08:11So I don't know if all of the powers that be are going to try and dodge sovereignty or sovereignty is going to dodge journalism until the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:08:20But it's not often you get a horse that runs in the Haskell and the Travers.
00:08:24Yeah, look, I was surprised that they ran journalism in the Belmont, okay?
00:08:31I was very surprised that they did that and ran against sovereignty with sovereignty being fresh off five weeks and in sovereignty's backyard where he'd been camped out since winning the Kentucky Derby.
00:08:46I mean, you talk about a disadvantage.
00:08:47I would be shocked if they run journalism in the Travers, okay?
00:08:55Flying all the way back to California where, incidentally, the Breeders' Cup is this year at Del Mar.
00:09:00I mean, why leave there to fly all the way back across country to the Travers and once again take on sovereignty on his home track in his backyard over the same distance and racetrack that he decisively defeated you in the Belmont Stakes?
00:09:16I think they stay in California.
00:09:18They point for the Pacific Classic, maybe the shared belief or whatever other race there is for three-year-olds out there before that, and then get ready for the Breeders' Cup at Del Mar and take their shot against sovereignty there.
00:09:30Randy, I'll give you another scenario.
00:09:32How about this?
00:09:33There's no way that sovereignty is going to the Haskell.
00:09:36You can just tell by the way they're talking.
00:09:38And, you know, they very much stick to the Saratoga, New York schedule.
00:09:41How about journalism going to the Haskell?
00:09:43One big shot on his own to win a Grade 1 without his rival dogging him all the way.
00:09:49And win that one, then go back to California.
00:09:51Yeah.
00:09:52The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:09:55This year's Keeneland September sale runs from September the 8th through September the 20th.
00:10:00And why should you attend?
00:10:02Well, just look at this weekend alone.
00:10:04September graduates included the Grade 1 Jaipa winner, A.G. Bullitt.
00:10:09She beat the boys.
00:10:11The Grade 3 Pennine Ridge winner, A.P. Kidd.
00:10:14The Grade 1 New York Stakes winner, She Feels Pretty.
00:10:18The Grade 3 Summertime Oaks winner, Cash Call.
00:10:22The Grade 1 Met Mile winner, Raging Torrent.
00:10:26The Grade 3 True North winner, Bookham Dano.
00:10:29I know why he's called that.
00:10:31The Grade 2 Belmont Gold Cup winner, Parshman Party.
00:10:35A Farm Stakes winner, Gaming.
00:10:37And Grade 1 Manhattan winner, Deterministic.
00:10:40I feel like I should drink after all that lot.
00:10:43Wow.
00:10:44All out of one sale, the world's yearling sale.
00:10:47Make plans to attend.
00:10:49Cheers.
00:10:49I definitely should be drinking after that.
00:10:53It all comes down to this.
00:10:55Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
00:10:56The moment that defines the year.
00:10:58When the world's most influential buyers gather.
00:11:03And every decision, every bid, every opportunity shapes the future.
00:11:09At a marketplace that brings the thoroughbred world together.
00:11:13And where futures are forged.
00:11:16Because every moment matters.
00:11:19At the world's yearling sale, Caneland September.
00:11:22The fastest horse of the week brought to you by the fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:11:28Sunday's Jiper Stakes at Saratoga made us reflect upon last year's running.
00:11:33Dominated, of course, by Cogburn, who ran the fastest five and a half furlongs ever recorded.
00:11:3959.80 seconds.
00:11:41And in the process, earned a 114 buyer speed figure.
00:11:44The fastest of 2024.
00:11:46We told you this is brought to you by the fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:11:49So Cogburn checks all the boxes.
00:11:50He was fast, very fast.
00:11:52He's a sire.
00:11:53And he stands at Windstar for a fee of $30,000.
00:11:58As fast as Sovereignty, Raging Torrent, Patch Adams, and Deterministic were last week.
00:12:02They all took a back seat to the winner of Friday's Bed O'Roses.
00:12:07Steaks at Saratoga.
00:12:09Ways and Means.
00:12:10The four-year-old filly bounced back from her sloppy track third behind Copion in the Derby City Distaff on the Kentucky Derby undercard to destroy a good filly on Friday in Scylla by seven and three quarters lengths in the Bed O'Roses with a buyer of 111.
00:12:26The fastest buyer figure so far in 2025, topping the 110 previously earned by Copion and by Skelly.
00:12:36Trainer Chad Brown said the August 23rd Ballerina Stakes at Saratoga is a short-term goal for Ways and Means, possibly another race in between.
00:12:44Ways and Means, a daughter of Practical Joke, owned and bred by Seth Klarman, who won race before the Bed O'Roses, was disqualified from a victory in an allowance race.
00:12:54So Klarman said he wasn't celebrating the Bed O'Roses until the race was declared official.
00:13:05Well, none of us were there, but obviously the weather was a huge story, and it was just miserable up in Saratoga.
00:13:11And they did something really smart, I think, and you don't see tracks do that this often.
00:13:16They didn't let anybody run on the turf course on Belmont Stakes Day.
00:13:20And then there were several major stakes races on the turf, including some grade ones.
00:13:24They then made some of the races main track only, excuse me, some of the races to be run on the main track.
00:13:32And then they moved the Jiper and the Manhattan to Sunday.
00:13:36Now, the way the race is shaped up must have killed Naira's handle numbers on Saturday to lose two races and have a bunch of others taken off the turf.
00:13:45But I think it was definitely the right thing to do.
00:13:48And, again, all we can ask for is a safe triple crown.
00:13:51Everybody gets around the racetrack, no problems, and they got that.
00:13:56So they handled everything pretty well, but the weather was a major factor.
00:14:01You know, the funny thing is everybody keeps saying, well, which of these horses can handle a slop?
00:14:05Well, the big three, the so-called big three, all can handle a slop because they ran on it in the Kentucky Derby and ran so well on it.
00:14:13So, you know, it wasn't much of a conundrum for the handicappers.
00:14:17I never once considered that any one of those horses would be a throt because of the slop.
00:14:21Yeah, and fortunately, the racetrack dried out enough before the Belmont.
00:14:25It was almost fast by the time they ran it.
00:14:28I mean, they shaded 201.
00:14:30They went faster than 201 for the Traverse Stakes.
00:14:33So I thought the racetrack, Zoe, was in really good shape.
00:14:36It dried out immensely.
00:14:38It was terrific.
00:14:39I mean, honestly, I would have called it fast.
00:14:42It certainly looked fast, if not just drying out.
00:14:45One race, I saw some dust coming up off it.
00:14:47I'm like, oh, my goodness, is this track going to need some water in a minute?
00:14:51Yeah, they did a terrific job managing that main track.
00:14:56So one horse that we talked a lot about in leading up to last week's podcast,
00:15:01there was a lot of talk about Baeza, as rightly there should be.
00:15:04The improving horse, John Sherriff's, the connection to Doorknock and Mage.
00:15:09You know, I know a lot of really smart handicappers that thought this horse was definitely going to win this race,
00:15:15seeing that they thought he would improve, you know, the two or three lengths that he needed to improve after running in the Kentucky Derby.
00:15:22You know, he didn't run badly.
00:15:23I, he's a very good horse.
00:15:26There's going to be a grade one out there for him somewhere, maybe the Haskell for him.
00:15:31But I was a little bit disappointed.
00:15:33And, you know, how often do you see this?
00:15:35I think someone said it did happen one other time, that horses that ran one, two, three in the Derby and one, two, three in the, excuse me, in the Belmont.
00:15:44So, uh, that's not something you see every day.
00:15:48No, that, that was actually pretty amazing to see that the one, two, three, as far as Baeza is concerned, I feel it's just a little bit too much too soon for him.
00:15:59He's lightly raced.
00:16:01If you, he's barely had enough races.
00:16:03His first race was going two turns on the turf.
00:16:05That's a toughy toss.
00:16:07He didn't really learn a dumb thing doing that.
00:16:09And he's just still so green and physically looking at him.
00:16:14And I think I alluded to this last week, but he's a tall horse and I think he's grown.
00:16:19And sometimes horses are going through growing spurts at this time of the year.
00:16:23He's literally just a newly turned three-year-old.
00:16:26May the 16th or 15th, I do believe, is his birthday.
00:16:30And I believe it's just a little bit too much too soon.
00:16:33Was I disappointed by that run?
00:16:35Yeah.
00:16:35Was John Sherriff's disappointed?
00:16:37Yeah.
00:16:38He's still shaking his head, wondering what they did wrong.
00:16:41He was a little bit rank going into the first turn.
00:16:44He kind of, his light bulb came on when he left the gate.
00:16:47And Flavian had a hard time just trying to get him to settle.
00:16:51I just think he's going to need a bit more time to really figure out exactly what's going on.
00:16:56He's just a big baby Huey.
00:16:58I mean, they wanted to give him a shot at these races just because he is so talented and he had the pedigree for it.
00:17:04But bottom line, I mean, he's still eligible for a non-winners of two allowance room, right?
00:17:08So there's a lot of different directions they can go with Baeza, but he'll almost certainly grow up more and get faster as the year progresses, you would think.
00:17:18And I thought there was something that's kind of overlooked through this Triple Crown story.
00:17:24And if you say that sovereignty is the best three-year-old in the country, well, why would anybody argue about that?
00:17:30Clearly, he proved it in the Triple Crown.
00:17:32But wait a minute.
00:17:34The last time he lost was in the Florida Derby to a horse by the name of Tappan Street.
00:17:39Andy, you were working on the pronunciation, did I get it right?
00:17:41Tappan Street got hurt after that and then had to miss the entire Triple Crown.
00:17:49I mean, the Windstar people and Brad Cox must have just been dying when they saw that the horse that they beat is the horse that beat everybody else.
00:18:00Again, I know it's hypothetical.
00:18:02I know these things aren't nearly that easy.
00:18:04But at least we know that Tappan Street is going to come back next year.
00:18:08And boy, if he comes back healthy, he's going to be a beast in 2026.
00:18:13I'd imagine he'll be back before the end of the year, to be honest.
00:18:19Yeah, I'm looking at the chart of the Florida Derby right now.
00:18:23I mean, look, I just don't think, you know, all credit to Tappan Street.
00:18:27He ran a good race and he's a well-bred horse, obviously.
00:18:31He's by intermischief, just like sovereignty is.
00:18:33It was an intermischief exacta in the Florida Derby.
00:18:36I just don't think sovereignty ran as strong of a race as he did in the Fountain of Youth and certainly not the Kentucky Derby and the Belmont Stakes.
00:18:45I mean, Mott, as Mott does, you know, had the horse primed to run his best race on the biggest day in the Kentucky Derby and again in the Belmont Stakes.
00:18:55But Tappan Street to Pan Street is a nice horse.
00:18:59But I guess I'm not quite as excited about him vis-a-vis sovereignty and journalism as you are.
00:19:05All right.
00:19:06By the way, I did talk to Brad Cox and brought up his schedule.
00:19:09He said it's quite possible that he will run this year, but it'll be later in the year in a lesser type race.
00:19:16Says he's not going to try to rush him back for something like the Breeders' Cup Classic or something like that.
00:19:21One race late in 2025, get him ready for a 2026 campaign.
00:19:26Maybe the Pegasus World Cup would be a place for him to go next year.
00:19:29We shall see.
00:19:30But I don't know.
00:19:32If I owned that horse, I would be kicking myself at lady luck not shining on me.
00:19:39Yeah.
00:19:39And we'll see a lot of these three-year-olds that we saw on the Derby Trail and in the Kentucky Derby, you know, that just didn't pan out for them in some of these races leading up to the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:19:52I mean, we just saw at Churchill Downs last weekend.
00:19:55I mean, we saw East Avenue win in the mat win, right?
00:20:00Cole Battle was in there.
00:20:03Burnham Square closed strongly to finish second.
00:20:05You know, these horses are still in the mix.
00:20:08They're going to have to improve to get into the big three territory.
00:20:12But, you know, we'll be talking about them as well.
00:20:15I believe the mat win had more Derby starters than the Belmont did.
00:20:20Yeah.
00:20:20Yeah.
00:20:22And those purses at Churchill Downs, that's one of the reasons why people love to run there so much.
00:20:27But, well, everybody, too, I mean, I don't know how you define what is a good triple crown, a bad triple crown, or whatever.
00:20:36But I think this was, you know, there were some disappointments, particularly the fact that sovereignty didn't run in the Preakness.
00:20:42But by and large, I thought it was a really good triple crown.
00:20:44We had competitive races.
00:20:46We had some very good horses.
00:20:49We had journalism coming back in all three races.
00:20:51And I give all the credit in the world to those connections for doing that.
00:20:54So short of having a triple crown winner, I thought this was about as good a triple crown as we may have seen in a long time.
00:21:02Yeah, it was excellent.
00:21:04You had a cleanly run Derby.
00:21:06No one with a massive excuse in the Derby, which is always key.
00:21:09There was no coulda, shoulda, woulda.
00:21:12The Preakness got everybody talking right up until the Belmont Stakes and after.
00:21:17Should he, shouldn't he?
00:21:18That was amazing.
00:21:20And then you get all three of them, the top three, back in the Belmont.
00:21:23I thought it was awesome.
00:21:24I really, really did.
00:21:26And kudos to everybody involved for just making it so damn exciting.
00:21:31Yeah.
00:21:32And then you had the rugby scrum in mid-stretch at the Preakness, you know.
00:21:36I mean, we all, I've talked about that with some of my non-horse racing friends who happen to be either watching the Preakness or who happen to see the replay of it.
00:21:47And, of course, you know, they have a different take on it than we do.
00:21:51I mean, they're probably Indy 500 fans or whatever.
00:21:54They're like, oh, my gosh, that was the most unbelievable race I've ever seen.
00:21:58That was incredible.
00:21:59That was so cool.
00:22:00And we're, like, holding our breath, right, as horses were going every which direction at the eighth bowl.
00:22:05But, yeah, so it had that as well.
00:22:07The TD and Riders Room brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, the PHBA, coming up at Parks Racing and Penn National Racecourse, the first four Pennsylvania-bred stakes of the year.
00:22:20On Father's Day, this Sunday, June 15th, at Parks, the $100,000 Paige McKinney and the $100,000 Unique Bella, both at six furlongs for three-year-olds and up, the Unique Bella is for fillies and mares.
00:22:33Then the next Friday, June the 20th, is the new date for the rescheduled Penn Mile at Penn National.
00:22:40Originally scheduled for May 30th, had to be postponed due to torrential rains, along with the undercard grass races as well, including the two PA bread stakes, the $75,000 Alphabet Soup, and the $75,000 Leifard, both for three-year-olds and up, at a mile and a sixteenth on the turf.
00:23:01The Leifard is for fillies and mares.
00:23:03Over the last decade, an average of $26 million a year has been paid out from the Pennsylvania Breeding Program.
00:23:09To find out how you can nab some of that cash, you can go to pabread.com or you can call 610-444-1050.
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00:23:41Plus, PA Bread's shine on the world's biggest stage.
00:23:44Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
00:23:47Learn more at pabread.com.
00:23:49On this week's edition of First Things First, I thought, why not celebrate the California horses again?
00:23:59While sovereignty took down the Belmont States, California was responsible for the second place, Journalism,
00:24:05the third place, Baeza, and the fourth place, Rodriguez.
00:24:09Oh, wasn't there a little stakes called the Met Mile as well, in which Raging Torrent absolutely ran away and hid from perhaps a troubled fierceness, but he did it anyway.
00:24:19We'll give that one to trainer Doug O'Neill right here from California.
00:24:23One more to talk about, and it was just a little gray filly by the name of A.G. Bullitt,
00:24:28who beat the boys in the Grade 1 Jaipa, a winner in your ins for the Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint.
00:24:34She took it down for trainer Richard Boltus as well, so congratulations to the owners and the trainers of the fabulous horses coming out of California.
00:24:43Talking of California, it's closing weekend.
00:24:46This weekend, we will have a four-day weekend starting on Thursday, ending on Sunday.
00:24:52Sunday will be closing day, June the 15th.
00:24:54Come and celebrate Father's Day on Sunday.
00:24:56Today will be a 1 o'clock post time for all four days apart from Saturday.
00:25:0112.30 on Saturday, we'll have a 12.30 post time and a 12 race card, so do join us at the Great Race Place.
00:25:09Welcome in now, the Gainesway Guests of the Week, and it is Belmont Stakes winning jockey, Junior Alvarado.
00:25:15Junior, thanks for joining us.
00:25:17This is a Tuesday afternoon.
00:25:19What were you doing earlier today?
00:25:22Well, hello.
00:25:22Thanks for having me, and, you know, just getting home, actually.
00:25:27I was in the city.
00:25:28We're doing kind of like a food tasting in the city in one of those restaurants.
00:25:34You know, I was invited by the Yankee staff, and so we were recording something for Yes Network and the Yes TV.
00:25:42So, yeah, you know, I was with Javier Castellano and Johnny Velasquez, so we did have a lot of fun there.
00:25:49So you were eating.
00:25:52Yes.
00:25:53Yes, I know.
00:25:55That's what we were just talking about.
00:25:56Like, well, I guess it's Tuesday.
00:25:59We still have, you know, a couple days to lose some way, I guess.
00:26:02Well, let's talk about the Belmont Stakes for a second.
00:26:07Just another dominating performance by Sovereignty.
00:26:10Going into the race, what were you thinking?
00:26:13Like, what was your strategy?
00:26:15Were you going to follow journalism again, if possible, like you did in the Derby?
00:26:19What was your mindset?
00:26:21Yes, Randy.
00:26:22You know, it was a little bit of a question mark where I was going to be, you know.
00:26:26I knew I was in a perfect post position because I wanted it to.
00:26:31I wanted it in the inside.
00:26:32I wanted to save ground the first turn.
00:26:35And, but yes, I didn't know.
00:26:38I figured probably I was going to be following either journalism or Baeza or maybe both of them.
00:26:43You know, I thought I was going to be behind both of them, to be honest.
00:26:47But, listen, I guess he was super ready.
00:26:50He was super sharp going into the Belmont.
00:26:52One day, he put himself and myself in an even better position than I thought.
00:26:58Were you surprised he was that close?
00:26:59I thought the pace would be faster.
00:27:02Yes, I was a little surprised, you know.
00:27:04But, once again, you know, he was like, he put me there.
00:27:07And it's not like I felt that he was rank or he was pulling or he was going faster than any other time.
00:27:12You know, he still was in a good rhythm.
00:27:13So, I was like, well, you know what?
00:27:15I'm not going to take away what comes easy.
00:27:17You know, that's something that Billy Moore all the time tells me.
00:27:19So, when I found myself right there, I was like, they're going to be now in trouble.
00:27:24Because the only advantage that they had is if they could be in front of me and they probably would go slow.
00:27:29But now that is completely out of the window.
00:27:33So, I was in a great spot right there the whole way.
00:27:36Junior, it's been a real up and down year for you.
00:27:39And right now, it's obviously on an upswing.
00:27:41But on March 23rd, you fractured your scapula at Gulfstream Park and that you had to miss the mount on sovereignty in the Florida Derby.
00:27:50Manny Franco took over.
00:27:52Did you think at that time that you're not only going to miss the Florida Derby, but you might miss the Kentucky Derby as well?
00:27:57Yes, I mean, I remember laying in the bed right there with my agent next to me.
00:28:03And then when, you know, I keep telling my agent, man, I think I may have a fracture, Mike.
00:28:08It's like, I know my body.
00:28:09And this is, you know, I can't handle pain.
00:28:12I've been through a lot of injuries.
00:28:14And I knew it's like, this is a little more than I think it is.
00:28:18And, you know, when the doctor told us, you know, you have a fractured scapula.
00:28:23So I was like, what is that?
00:28:24Like a her line?
00:28:26Like, it's not that bad.
00:28:27You know, can I go back in a week?
00:28:28And it's like, no, no, no, no.
00:28:30You have a completely fractured scapula.
00:28:32You will have to probably be out between six to eight weeks.
00:28:36So like right there, I just, I remember looking at my agent and I'm like shaking my head.
00:28:42I was like, why this has to happen to me?
00:28:43Like, why these things keep happening to me?
00:28:47And I didn't say that at the moment.
00:28:48And it's just like, that's always keep going in my hands.
00:28:51Like, God, why?
00:28:53Like, why?
00:28:54Like, since I, like, I know the horse that I'm riding.
00:28:57I know the horse ability.
00:29:00I know what he's capable of.
00:29:02And like I say, everything just started like a lot of thoughts going through my mind.
00:29:06Like, I'm thinking like, well, I mean, I cannot believe I'm going to be missing the derby.
00:29:10At that point, I wasn't even thinking about the Florida derby, which is the derby.
00:29:14Because somehow I was going to try to find my way to get back in the Kentucky Derby if he wins the derby with many friends.
00:29:21But that was even before Bill called me and told me that I was going to have the right back whenever I was ready.
00:29:29But, but once again, I mean, that day, that night, it was just a nightmare, a completely whole nightmare that I was living, living in life.
00:29:38You know, I couldn't believe that all that was happening.
00:29:40And, and I remember even telling him the doctor before he left the room again, I told him like, there is anything you guys can put me, like, give me the, you know, can kind of numb the pain and I can move it and I can, and I can go through all this.
00:29:54And he like said, like, I can do that.
00:29:57It's like, we can, there's nothing I can do that I can help you.
00:30:01You need to rest as a very rare fracture because the scapula is kind of like a flat bone.
00:30:06We don't even know how you ended up breaking that.
00:30:08So he says, he's like, you have to just, just rest.
00:30:11So, yeah, he was, he was, you know, it was a nightmare of first, probably couple days, to be honest.
00:30:20So they told you six to eight weeks.
00:30:22What did the timetable turn out to be and how did you get it quicker?
00:30:27Well, it was exactly three weeks and three days when I was back again, riding in races and riding in, riding in the morning.
00:30:36It took me two weeks and two days.
00:30:39It's, you know, like I, I, I spoke the next day that I got out of the hospital.
00:30:44You know, I spoke with one of the doctors that normally sees us here in Saratoga and he was in South Florida.
00:30:50So I went to see him in person and he said like, you know, it's funny because actually he had the same fracture, I guess, a long time ago.
00:30:56And he says like, they'll tell you, don't move your arm.
00:30:59I'll tell you the whole opposite.
00:31:01Move your arm, move your arm.
00:31:03Because once you stop moving your arm for a week, then you're going to lose a lot of mobility and it's going to be hard for you to recover.
00:31:10It's like, you're going to have pain.
00:31:12It's like, it's up to you how much pain you will handle.
00:31:15But what I would recommend you is to keep moving your arm.
00:31:18I'm not going to tell you lift anyway or none of that.
00:31:20Don't lift anyway.
00:31:21Don't lift none of your kids.
00:31:23But keep moving your arm.
00:31:24Keep moving your arm.
00:31:25Keep moving your arm.
00:31:26I mean, hopefully in two weeks you should be much better than, and then, you know, after three weeks you can come see me and then we'll hopefully you'll be able to, to, to be back around four weeks, hopefully.
00:31:37But once again, I don't know where, I guess it was meant to be.
00:31:41God helped me to heal quicker than like in two weeks.
00:31:45I remember going to see him here in Saratoga and I thought, listen, I felt not a hundred percent, but I felt good enough to go get him some horses in the morning and I need the okay.
00:31:55And then, you know, I went to see him.
00:31:56He checked me out.
00:31:57He said like, well, go get him some horses.
00:31:58And you call me the next day or call me after and let me know how you feel.
00:32:03It's like, you're going to be probably in pain.
00:32:04And I remember I went to work a couple of horses for Billy Mo and I galloped two horses.
00:32:08Then I went back again the next day and, and, and myself, I can't even, I couldn't even believe how great I was feeling each day, you know, moving on.
00:32:18And, and, and, and, and then I called my agent and thought, listen, put me on some horses.
00:32:21I'm ready to go.
00:32:23So I'm ready to, I don't want to waste more time.
00:32:25I've been out already for, for two long weeks.
00:32:27So like, I need to be back in action.
00:32:31Junior, so much of your success, not just in the Derby in Belmont this year, but throughout the last several years of your career,
00:32:37has come on Belmont trained horses and, you know, what has that relationship meant to you?
00:32:42And how did that get, how did you get going?
00:32:44How did you get in that barn and get in there so solidly that, you know, if he has a good horse, 90 times out of 10, you're going to be the rider.
00:32:52You know, at first, you know, when I moved to New York, I had Mike Salido, my agent, you know, he's very good, a close, very close friend with, with, uh, Belmont, you know, and I think, you know, that's how we started it.
00:33:03You know, I started riding horses and, you know, I will say probably six, seven, eight years ago, you know, I used to ride all those nice horses in the morning.
00:33:10And then, you know, it was probably Mike Smith, Joel Rosario, you know, all those guys who got to ride those nice horses.
00:33:17And, and, you know, I still was riding a lot of built horses, but the good one were always, you know, Mike Smith, all the big jockeys.
00:33:24And, and I remember Mike, you just keep time. It's like, you just keep working, keep working. You're going to have your time. And when you have your time, then you'll, you'll take it them.
00:33:32And, and, and, and it's just that, you know, I guess working a lot of times in the morning, you know, I have to understand what Bill really likes to do with his horses, with the baby, how he developed the horses.
00:33:43You know, every, every trainer has different mentality and different way to approach their, their training method.
00:33:49And, and I just think I just fit pretty well with what Bill was doing. And, and I like the way he does it. So I just think it works, you know, and, and, and, and like I say, I think the, the, the, the more chance I was getting, the, the, the more opportunity I was getting, the, for me, I was able to, to perform well in the afternoon.
00:34:07And, and that's how more opportunity keep coming my way.
00:34:10So junior, I play this game a lot with my broadcast buddy, Jerry Bailey.
00:34:16Uh, I did a lot of research here about you and Bill Mott.
00:34:20Okay.
00:34:20I went down some rabbit holes.
00:34:22You've won 421 races for Mott, 65 graded stakes, $51.5 million in purse money.
00:34:32Just between you and Bill Mott, the relationship.
00:34:35Do you remember the, the name of the first stakes winner?
00:34:40That you rode for Bill Mott.
00:34:47I could probably say.
00:34:49Jockey.
00:34:50That's that, that's the game.
00:34:51It was 2011.
00:34:55Wow.
00:34:56You won two stakes on her.
00:34:59One was at Aqueduct and the next was at Churchill.
00:35:02Elvira.
00:35:03Something.
00:35:03Don't you?
00:35:04Yes.
00:35:04Arena Elvira.
00:35:06Arena Elvira.
00:35:07Yeah.
00:35:07You've got it.
00:35:08You've got it.
00:35:09Caroline.
00:35:10Caroline.
00:35:10Yeah.
00:35:11Yes.
00:35:11Yeah.
00:35:11The first stakes win and graded stakes win for Bill Mott.
00:35:15Both were graded stakes.
00:35:16Yeah.
00:35:17That's what I thought.
00:35:18I was, I was trying to get the first name of the horse.
00:35:20I know he was Elvira.
00:35:21Okay.
00:35:21Arena Elvira.
00:35:22Yes.
00:35:23Yes.
00:35:23That's what started it all.
00:35:24Arena Elvira.
00:35:26Yes.
00:35:26Yes.
00:35:27I clearly remember that feeling.
00:35:28Yes.
00:35:29Yes.
00:35:29That's awesome.
00:35:31Junior, as you've been talking about the Belmont and Kentucky Derby experience, there's one
00:35:36quote from you that I really was interested in is that you said of sovereignty, it was
00:35:41like he knew he is the best horse.
00:35:44Can you really, how do you pick up on that?
00:35:47You know, how, how do you, as his partner, able to get that kind of signal from him?
00:35:53And if you would elaborate on what you meant by that.
00:35:56Like, what do you mean?
00:35:57Like in this race or in the Derby?
00:35:59In this race or the Derby?
00:36:02Yeah.
00:36:02You know, I think for me and going into the Derby, you know, I've seen him train and to
00:36:08me always felt like he was almost, he was training himself, the horse, sovereignty, because
00:36:17I don't think Billy needed to do much with him because he was just so talented that he
00:36:23was, he didn't need to do much with him for what he was showing at that point.
00:36:27And I knew when I saw him in the Derby, the week of the Derby, Billy was actually asking
00:36:33him to train.
00:36:34Now he's in the Belmont program training.
00:36:38So when I saw it, it's like, well, now I have to see if the horse will respond to the
00:36:42training of Belmont.
00:36:43And, and, and I remember like a whole four or five days before, two weeks before, that
00:36:50was the first workout that he did in, in, in, in Kentucky was a minute flat, gallop out
00:36:57one 12 and four, then one, the seven four long was 126.
00:37:01And I was like, I know the horse wasn't capable to do that.
00:37:05Like he doesn't work that way.
00:37:07When he, when I saw him working like that, I was like, oh boy, this guy now has waking
00:37:13up and now this horse is training.
00:37:16Now this horse know what he's supposed to do.
00:37:19So now he's going to step up his game.
00:37:20And, and I always knew that he always was running probably in a 60, 70% tank.
00:37:26He wasn't never really all the way to the top.
00:37:29So I, I was very confident.
00:37:31And then, like I say, two, three days seeing gallop before the, the Kentucky Derby, seeing
00:37:36galloping there, I was like, and the way he does it.
00:37:40I was like, he, he, he was doing it.
00:37:42I said, like, he can lose the Derby.
00:37:44Like, there is no way he's going to just step up at least six, seven, eight lanes.
00:37:48Now, now he's really training like a, like a racehorse.
00:37:51Now Bill is training him.
00:37:53And, and, and, and that's what I always was so confident.
00:37:56And I was like, people like, well, this horse, this horse, what about if it rains?
00:37:59Like, I don't think it matters if it rains.
00:38:01This horse will run through anything, turf, dirt, asphalt, pavement, anything.
00:38:06Like, this is a real, a real horse that now is really training.
00:38:10So I was confident that, that was, you know, when I'm going into the Derby.
00:38:15Now, if you ask me and the, here going into the Balmond, same thing two days before I saw
00:38:21him just, it was enough for me to see him two days before galloping.
00:38:25The way he was galloping two days before the Balmond, I was like, that's it.
00:38:29I mean, this is, this is unbelievable.
00:38:31Like it just, the way he was doing it, skipping the ground all over, like kind of like going
00:38:36like 13 and change, 13 and change, 13 and change.
00:38:38Then he goes to the bar, like nothing, like nothing.
00:38:42He would just come out of the stall and look like to the, to the track, like, get me out
00:38:47that I can go again, two more rounds in the track.
00:38:49Just like he, like, I could almost feel him saying that, that way he was just in his eyes.
00:38:56And, and me, when I get up in the paddock, right when I jumped on it in the paddock, if anyone can
00:39:03watch the paddock, the way he was walking with me and compared to every horse, he looked like a,
00:39:10a, an, an army horse.
00:39:12He had a mission.
00:39:13He transformed, like he blew up like almost like 80 pounds and just pure mass all of a sudden.
00:39:20And like, he just got bigger and stronger.
00:39:22And I was like, Jesus, like, I'm thinking like, Oh no, I hope now this guy doesn't run off.
00:39:27I remember Bill even telling me like, you can take him away going, you know, you can take
00:39:31him away, you know, it might be okay.
00:39:32And I said like, Bill, I'm staying with the pony.
00:39:34I ain't going to stay with the pony.
00:39:36I don't want to turn him loose because I probably won't be able to hold him.
00:39:39Like I can feel it.
00:39:40So that's what I did.
00:39:41And, and, and once again, like right there, I, I knew I was like, this is, this is this horse.
00:39:47Now I'm pretty, he's like going now into another level.
00:39:50And he did that.
00:39:52Well, junior, we're going to give you our phone number.
00:39:54The next time you feel like a horse is going to improve six to eight lengths, just shoot us a text.
00:39:59Will you?
00:40:00So we got a little heads up.
00:40:02Well, that, that turned out to be a fan, a fantastic call.
00:40:07Yes.
00:40:07You know, you just, you just rare, you know, this, this, I wish there wouldn't be that many
00:40:11of our horses, but you know, this is, this probably be one of the only one that I can
00:40:15really sense that, that that was actually about to happen.
00:40:18You know, he's just pretty special.
00:40:20Well, you've ridden so many other good horses in your career for Mott and for everyone else.
00:40:24Let's talk about a couple of them.
00:40:25What was the experience like with the whole Cody's wish phenomenon?
00:40:31Yeah, you know, Randy, that was, that was very special.
00:40:35It just, it was completely different than, than, than writing Sovereignty.
00:40:39I think with Sovereignty and being very calm, writing Cody's wish, I felt a lot of pressure
00:40:44every single time I was writing it.
00:40:46You know, I didn't want, I didn't want to be the one who couldn't make a mistake and be
00:40:51the villain of the beautiful story of what was happening.
00:40:54I always, that was always in my mind.
00:40:57Like I can't not make, I can't make mistakes.
00:41:00I can't not do anything wrong.
00:41:01I can't over, I can't make anything little and get this horse beat because all that eyes
00:41:08are on me.
00:41:08I'm going to look like the bad guy right here.
00:41:11So, but every time I get to cross the wire first, I mean, it was the happiness.
00:41:17It was like, for me, I was giving something.
00:41:20I was giving something.
00:41:21Every time I got to win the race, I didn't, I never celebrated like it was one of my victory.
00:41:28I never felt like, wow, that was for me.
00:41:30Wow.
00:41:31All the work that I did for this.
00:41:32No, I never was.
00:41:33I never felt that way, writing Cody's wish.
00:41:35I always felt like I was doing it for, for Cody Dorman, for the family, for, for everything
00:41:41that was happening with, with, with my horse and with Cody Dorman.
00:41:45That's, that's what I, all the time I felt every single time.
00:41:48I, I mean, every time I was going to write it, I felt like I need to win for them.
00:41:53I need to keep this going, this beautiful story going.
00:41:57It, I, I, I, I have to make it happen one more time.
00:42:01That's what I always say every time I had to ride a horse.
00:42:03And, and, you know, at the end, I remember the last race and, and, and the British Cup,
00:42:10you know, like actually it was almost like a relief that as a jockey, you never want
00:42:15a horse to retire.
00:42:16But for me, I was like, wow, that will be the last one, you know, like I would be like
00:42:20now probably relief after that.
00:42:22And, and, and, and, you know, it was a dramatic act as can be, you know, we went down head
00:42:28to head with national treasure.
00:42:30Then it's a claiming foul.
00:42:32Then it's like, I don't know if you asked me, it felt like it was like a 30 minute way.
00:42:37And, and, and it was just an unbelievable, but that experience.
00:42:41Yeah.
00:42:41That was, that was unique, completely different to any other experience I ever have winning
00:42:47grade ones or any other big races, to be honest.
00:42:50One more for me, this is not for Bill Mott, but what was it like to win the $20 million
00:42:55Saudi Cup on Senor Buscador?
00:43:00Yeah, that was, that was very, very shocking, you know, very surprising.
00:43:02I remember telling my wife, you know, she, she kept telling me, you know, you have to go
00:43:06because finishing at this point, finishing four there, it was a big money.
00:43:12It was a good paycheck for a whole month, you know, like, and she's like, I'm like, I'm
00:43:18not going there to finish four.
00:43:20I'm going there to win the race.
00:43:22I'm going there to win the race.
00:43:23And I was, was very positive, but you know, wow.
00:43:26I remember I did pray a lot.
00:43:29I remember praying a lot and I got there like three days before and I prayed like, please
00:43:33God, like, this will help my family.
00:43:35This will help so many of my family economically that I can, if I get to win this race.
00:43:42And I remember telling every night, praying like, you get me to win this race.
00:43:47And when I cross the wire, first word that I got, the first word that going to come out
00:43:52of my mouth is thank you.
00:43:54And thank you.
00:43:54And I won't stop thanking you if you really give me this God.
00:43:58And, and, and, and that's what I did.
00:44:00And to me, it was just very magical.
00:44:02It felt to me like he, he answered me.
00:44:04He, he, he, he, I asked him for something and he gave it to me.
00:44:08And, and, and, and, and like I said, I was celebrating, I was happy, but I was kind of
00:44:12in shock that like, I felt the answer and, and, and, and, and yes, I think, you know,
00:44:17it just another magnificent, magnificent win for me.
00:44:22Junior, most people must think, I think they think anyways, that Junior is a nickname and
00:44:28lo and behold, it is not as your official legal first name, but obviously that's different.
00:44:35And normally Junior would be at the end of the name.
00:44:38Tell us how this, you came to be Junior Alvarado.
00:44:42Yeah.
00:44:42You know, it was supposed to be Rafael Alvarado Jr.
00:44:45That's how my dad and my mom kind of planned it.
00:44:47And, and what happened was like, you know, I was born and then my mom was having some
00:44:51complications and, you know, right there, you have to do all the process very quick.
00:44:55And, and, and, you know, when they listed up, they put Junior Rafael Alvarado and my dad
00:45:01didn't want to kind of like waste more time trying to change it and redo it all over again.
00:45:05And he was like, yeah, yeah, that's good.
00:45:07Just leave it like that.
00:45:08You know, he say, he, he say he thought it was probably meant to be that way.
00:45:12Then, then he say like, he didn't want to change it because I did, you know, growing up
00:45:16when I was probably eight, nine, a lot of people were already asking me, what's it supposed
00:45:20to be Junior is normally like, you know, after your dad, like you're the Junior.
00:45:24So it's Rafael Alvarado Jr.
00:45:26And then I get to ask my dad and, you know, they, they, they told me the story about what
00:45:30happened and, and, you know, and that, that's, I guess that's fine then, you know, but it,
00:45:35that's how it was.
00:45:37All right.
00:45:38Well, Junior, thanks so much for joining us today.
00:45:40I've really enjoyed all those stories.
00:45:42I like it, even though you're a Yankee fan, we'll have to work on that.
00:45:46Okay.
00:45:46Well, once again, thank you for being on the Gaines Way Guest of the Week on the Thoroughbred
00:45:51Daily News Podcast and continued success.
00:45:55Yeah.
00:45:55Well, no, thank you so much again.
00:45:56Thanks for having me.
00:45:59Guest of the Week, Junior Alvarado was brought to you by Gaines Way, the home of Olympiad,
00:46:05a multimillionaire on the track with speed, stamina, and precociousness.
00:46:10Olympiad won from seven furlongs to a mile and a quarter.
00:46:13He was a two-year-old winner at Saratoga.
00:46:16In his four-year-old year, he reeled off five graded stakes wins, including the Jockey Club
00:46:21Gold Cup.
00:46:22He ran eight 100-plus buyer speed figures and twice earned 111 buyers.
00:46:29And his regular rider was Junior Alvarado.
00:46:32How's that for coincidence?
00:46:35Olympiad stands at Gaines Way for a fee of $35,000.
00:46:37You'll see his first yearlings this summer.
00:46:41Gaines Way, power, passion, performance.
00:46:59Olympiad gets the gold in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
00:47:03$450,000, $350,000, $325,000.
00:47:11With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round, there's never
00:47:21been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:47:27Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as his average purse per race outpacing California,
00:47:33Florida, and New York.
00:47:35Kentucky Breads.
00:47:37Breed them.
00:47:38Raise them.
00:47:40Race them.
00:47:41We all win.
00:47:45So we all know that the Belmont Stakes is New York's signature horse race, but where
00:47:52are Belmont Stakes winners bred?
00:47:55We know the answer to that, too.
00:47:56Kentucky!
00:47:58Of course, Sovereignty's Belmont victory not only gave Kentucky Breads a sweep of this
00:48:03year's Triple Crown races, Kentucky Breads have now won 20 of the last 21 Belmonts and
00:48:10107 in all over the course of the race's long history.
00:48:15Kentucky Breads.
00:48:16Breed them.
00:48:17Raise them.
00:48:18Race them.
00:48:18We all win.
00:48:20Well, it was, again, such a good day of racing.
00:48:23Two days of racing, the Friday, Saturday, and then, I guess, three because it's Sunday
00:48:26because they put the grade one grass races on there.
00:48:29And Randy said last week, and I agree with him, that this is the best racing card run
00:48:35in America outside of the Breeders' Cup.
00:48:37So there were many other races to look back upon and reflect upon.
00:48:43And I think the one, though, what might not have been the most exciting race or the best
00:48:48horses, but I thought Miguel Clement winning the Manhattan, his first grade one win, a race
00:48:53that his father had won, damn it, I wrote it down somewhere, I believe three times, that
00:48:58was really a very sweet, sentimental victory.
00:49:01And I thought that was one of the highlights of the week.
00:49:05I mean, his third winner is a grade one winner.
00:49:10Lifetime.
00:49:10That just doesn't happen.
00:49:12The gods and his father were looking down on him with deterministic.
00:49:16And good for Karmouche as well.
00:49:19George Wolfe award winner last week, comes back, gets his first grade one at Saratoga,
00:49:25bought a horse he'd ridden before, was taken off of, got put back on, a horse that was on
00:49:30the Triple Crown Trail.
00:49:31In fact, listening to some of Miguel's quotes, he said after or prior to his run in the wood
00:49:38when he was on the Triple Crown Trail, they galt him on the grass.
00:49:42And he was like, I wanted to put him on the grass then, but we would have got killed if
00:49:45we'd have taken him off the Triple Crown Trail and run him on the grass.
00:49:49So yeah, that was nice to see.
00:49:51So I have a funny feeling that Christoph may have had a big hand in the aptly named
00:49:56deterministic, who was very much so determined in the winning of that race.
00:50:00Yeah, obviously an emotional afternoon for everybody involved with the Clamont Stable.
00:50:06Miguel learned at his father's knee throughout his entire life how to train racehorses.
00:50:11He had a big role in the Clamont Barn and the operation of the Stable, even before
00:50:15Christoph got sick.
00:50:17And that only just accelerated once Christoph couldn't spend quite as much time at the
00:50:21barn as he did before.
00:50:22And you talk about quotes from Miguel Clamont.
00:50:25Here's a quote, a couple of quotes about deterministic.
00:50:29OK, deterministic.
00:50:30I think he broke his maiden as a two-year-old at Saratoga on the dirt.
00:50:33And he was seven to two that day.
00:50:36And we asked Miguel.
00:50:37I had him.
00:50:38OK, yeah.
00:50:39Did you like him in his debut?
00:50:41No, that's an understatement.
00:50:44We loved him.
00:50:45Yeah.
00:50:45And he began talking a little bit later about how much he liked deterministic.
00:50:50He said, between you and I, I like him a lot.
00:50:54He's the most efficient mover we have in the entire barn.
00:50:58And he creates an emotion that we haven't had in a long time.
00:51:03This was March 2024, as he was preparing for the, I think, for the Wood Memorial after winning
00:51:11the Gotham.
00:51:12And he didn't pan out on dirt, necessarily.
00:51:15And they switched him to grass.
00:51:16And look at what he's doing right now.
00:51:18So Miguel, in particular, has been extremely high on deterministic right from the start.
00:51:24And the horse is showing why.
00:51:26And he's beautiful.
00:51:27He's one of the best-looking sons of Liam's map that I've seen.
00:51:30And I think that was the 10th grade one winner for Liam's map, second one this year.
00:51:35But just to look at him, his physical presence, if you don't like looking at that horse, you
00:51:40don't like horses.
00:51:41He is absolutely gorgeous.
00:51:45So the Met Mile, always one of the biggest races on the Belmont Stakes card, won by Raging
00:51:51Torrent.
00:51:52Just like Zoe said earlier, California horses, they really held their own coming into New
00:51:56York this weekend, had been trained by Doug O'Neill.
00:52:00I picked the horse.
00:52:02And I'm not trying to pat myself on the back.
00:52:04I don't understand why he was 8-1.
00:52:06I thought there was a very competitive race.
00:52:08Obviously, everybody likes fierceness.
00:52:10Obviously, everybody likes White Averio.
00:52:12But this horse had won the Malibu and then went over to UAE and won a big stakes race over
00:52:19there.
00:52:20So he was coming in with some great form.
00:52:24And Doug O'Neill, you don't hear about him like you hear about a Baffert or something
00:52:29like that.
00:52:30But he's pretty tough.
00:52:31He sneaks in there some pretty good horses from time to time and gets the job done.
00:52:36And Raging Torrent, it's a big victory for him.
00:52:39And we'll see where he goes from there.
00:52:41And just as importantly, it looked like on paper going into the Met Mile that he would
00:52:46get the same kind of trip that he got in the Godolphin Mile, which is a front-running
00:52:51trip.
00:52:52I mean, there was very little early speed in there.
00:52:54We talked last week about fierceness in the number one post position and how that might
00:52:59sort of impact his usual running style.
00:53:02He had to be rushed a little bit by John Velasquez to sort of try to muscle his way out from
00:53:08getting stuck on the rail behind Raging Torrent.
00:53:11And I think they've got him maybe a little bit more on the engine than they would have
00:53:14liked him to be.
00:53:16And he was right there on the flank of Raging Torrent.
00:53:18It looked like he had him at one point, I thought, at the quarter pole, just knowing how
00:53:22good fierceness is.
00:53:24But it wasn't quite the same fierceness at the turn and a half mile at Saratoga, as I
00:53:31think we'll see from fierceness going a little bit longer.
00:53:33No excuses for wide Abario, maybe the sloppy track, I don't know.
00:53:38And just a touch, didn't run nearly as sharply as he did in his previous two wins against
00:53:43easier company.
00:53:44It was all Raging Torrent.
00:53:45Yeah.
00:53:46But fierceness kind of left on his back foot and got a little bit bounced around back there.
00:53:51And he doesn't like it.
00:53:52He likes to have things his own way.
00:53:54So when he didn't leave there with his head in front, it was all over from him with the
00:53:59three turns there in the Wilson shoot.
00:54:01So not a great race for him, but Raging Torrent, very good beneficiary.
00:54:07Well, I talked to the connections of Bookum Dano, my favorite horse and my favorite people,
00:54:12and they're not sure where they're going to run him next, but it's probably going to
00:54:14be at Saratoga and either the Vanderbilt or the Forgo and maybe both.
00:54:18Trainer Derek Ryan is still convinced he can get this horse to stretch out to a one-turn
00:54:24mile and an eighth, and he really wants to get him back to Saudi Arabia to run in the
00:54:28Saudi Cup with that $20 million purse.
00:54:31Horse has never gone beyond seven furlongs, but the mile and an eighth one turn is a much
00:54:37different race than a mile and an eighth two turns.
00:54:39I just love this horse, blue-collar horse from blue-collar state, gets the job done,
00:54:45and who knows?
00:54:46I mean, he might even eventually go.
00:54:48He keeps this up.
00:54:49He's going to be in the conversation for Eclipse Award.
00:54:51Who else do we know who's a Jersey bread?
00:54:54Hmm.
00:54:59We were laughing that Zoe had no idea the derivation of Bookum Dano, where it came from,
00:55:05and we couldn't figure it out until someone pointed out they didn't show Hawaii Five-0 in
00:55:10the UK.
00:55:11No.
00:55:12What's the theme song?
00:55:13Do I even know the theme song?
00:55:15Yeah, you would know it.
00:55:16Well, come on, sing it.
00:55:17No, that ain't happening.
00:55:19I don't even know if it has words.
00:55:21Hum it.
00:55:24Oh, da-da-da-da-da.
00:55:26Okay, I know that.
00:55:27Yeah, there are no words, no.
00:55:28Move the mic so we can get a better look at Bookum Dano.
00:55:32Jack Lord.
00:55:33That's Jack Lord, who played Steve McGarrett, the boss.
00:55:38Dano was his, like, assistant.
00:55:40And at the end of every episode, they finally got the bad guy.
00:55:44They got him caught.
00:55:44And Steve McGarrett, Jack Lord, says to Danny Williams, his associate, Bookum Dano.
00:55:52Looks like Fonzie.
00:55:54Yeah.
00:55:54It looks like Fonzie.
00:55:57Fonzie face.
00:56:00Bookum Dano is a gelding.
00:56:02So Bill could be talking about Bookum Dano for a long time.
00:56:06I hope.
00:56:08Let's hope.
00:56:09Yeah.
00:56:10Another race of note, and not to celebrate a big victory, but to take a look at what happened
00:56:17to good cheer in the acorn.
00:56:19I mean, she looked like, I mean, she was perfect, seven for seven.
00:56:23Looked like she just towered over this field.
00:56:27I heard a rumor, don't know if it's good, it's not from the greatest source, but that
00:56:31somebody bet $500,000 to show on her in the, there was definitely a big minus pool.
00:56:39So that could possibly be true.
00:56:41Talk with Brad Cox.
00:56:43I have no idea what happened.
00:56:45She's fine.
00:56:45We'll keep going and find another race for her.
00:56:49So, you know, I'm surprised they didn't find some sort of excuse because she was so consistent
00:56:53and so good.
00:56:54But, you know, once again, it's a reminder that these things are not machines and she
00:56:58had a bad day.
00:56:59Yeah.
00:57:00She might have woke up with a headache.
00:57:01You, you don't know.
00:57:03Anytime you can put seven in a row, six in a row, five in a row together takes an awful
00:57:09lot of getting out of bed and feeling great and having everything go your way.
00:57:13She got a lot of dirt in her face.
00:57:15She was a long way back.
00:57:17Things just didn't work out and she got beat.
00:57:19So La Cara, of course, won the acorn by three lengths.
00:57:25Uh, La Cara was coming out of the Kentucky Oaks where good cheer had beaten her by 13
00:57:30lengths.
00:57:31Um, good cheer had had two previous races on wet tracks, both at Churchill and an allowance
00:57:38race as a two-year-old.
00:57:39She only won by 17 on a sloppy track.
00:57:43And then, of course, the Kentucky Oaks was run on an officially a wet fast track and she
00:57:49won that convincingly.
00:57:50She was undefeated going into the acorn.
00:57:51I, I can't explain it.
00:57:53I don't, I don't know if there is a logical explanation for it.
00:57:56My first thought would have been something happened to her.
00:57:59Yeah.
00:58:00But if, if Brad says that she's fine and, you know, they'll live to fight another day,
00:58:05then, uh, I guess, you know, you don't have that excuse.
00:58:08So good question.
00:58:10Yeah.
00:58:10Don't be surprised if you see her back in something like the Alabama or the coaching
00:58:14club, he really seemed to think I'm not going to worry about it.
00:58:16And we're going to put her right back in against the big girls.
00:58:19Yeah.
00:58:19I mean, she hasn't been running the big numbers that we've all talked about, you know, every
00:58:23time she runs, we talk about, you know, is this going to, she just wins anyway.
00:58:27Is this going to be the time when she gets beat?
00:58:29So it might not have been surprising that she lost to La Cara, uh, but to be a total no
00:58:36show and to be fifth, beat nine lengths.
00:58:39Um, that's, that was a real, real surprise.
00:58:42Maybe she'll just get a little holiday and come back a happy camper.
00:58:46Let's hope so.
00:58:48The TDM writers room is brought to you by first TV.
00:58:51Now, according to his owner, John Green, Sandman is filling his oats up in Saratoga, holding
00:58:56his weight and feeling rather feisty.
00:58:59Here's our first T first TV work of the week.
00:59:02This week, he breezed for the first time since his third place finish in the Preakness States,
00:59:07going an easy four furlongs over the track at Saratoga in 50 and four on Sunday.
00:59:13Co-owner Terry Finley says Sandman is expected to make his next start in the Jim Dandy, July
00:59:18the 26th at Saratoga.
00:59:20Isn't sovereignty going there as well?
00:59:22Could we have a fantastic Jim Dandy as well?
00:59:25Sky's the limit.
00:59:26It's awesome.
00:59:27Be a smarter bettor with First TV, the best horses, with thousands of exclusive morning
00:59:38workouts, all at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox, everything you need
00:59:49to be informed.
00:59:51Be smart.
00:59:52Bet smart.
00:59:54With First TV.
00:59:57All the thrills.
01:00:03Fraction of the bills.
01:00:08Experience the power of the partnership.
01:00:13Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:00:21West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:00:24Visit westpointtv.com.
01:00:28The TD and Writer's Room also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds, the co-owners
01:00:33of Integration, who delivered another big performance Sunday in the Manhattan Stakes at Saratoga with
01:00:39a furious late charge that came up just short of Pacesetter Deterministic.
01:00:44Oh, what might have been integration lost by only a head to Deterministic.
01:00:50In the Pegasus World Cup back in January, he lost by only a neck.
01:00:55But without a doubt, integration has proven he belongs with the division's best, and he
01:00:59remains on the hunt for that elusive grade one victory.
01:01:02Meanwhile, out west, West Point celebrated two brave wire-to-wire grass victories at Santa
01:01:08Anita, Miles Finch on Saturday, and final boss on Sunday.
01:01:13Final boss set the pace, lost the lead in mid-stretch, battled back gamely to win by a nose.
01:01:18Both horses trained by John Sadler and were ridden by Juan Hernandez.
01:01:22That's a wrap on this week's show.
01:01:25I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabin, our sponsor, Gainsway, and the Gainsway
01:01:31Guest of the Week, Junior Alvarado, as well as the people that work behind the scenes to
01:01:35make this podcast every bit as special as we think that it is.
01:01:39That's Sue Finley, Katie Petroniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aliyah LaRocca.
01:01:43Well, we did it.
01:01:44We got through the Triple Crown.
01:01:45It was a lot of fun.
01:01:46See you next week.
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