- yesterday
His two 2024 Classic winners--Mystik Dan and Thorpedo Anna--are running this weekend at Churchill Downs in the Stephen Foster and Fleur de Lis, and Kenny McPeek took a few minutes from his busy schedule to appear on the TDN Writers' Room to talk about their chances. The team of Randy Moss, Zoe Cadman and Bill Finley also take a look back on Royal Ascot, preview this weekend's races, and tells stories about Wayne Lukas, who was forced into retirement by illness this week.
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00:00:00For the love of the worse, for generations to come.
00:00:23Welcome to this week's TDN Writer's Room podcast.
00:00:30My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:32I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:34How are y'all doing?
00:00:36I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and the Vyre Speed Figure team.
00:00:40Hope everybody's well.
00:00:42Very well indeed.
00:00:43Zoe Kavman here with First Racing and First TV.
00:00:46I'm in England.
00:00:46The heat wave is over, obviously, because my gray hair seems to be blending into the gray sky right now.
00:00:53But it is warm, and it's a glorious time to be in England.
00:00:57I bet with Royal Ascot just getting done, it must be a fun time to be in England, no doubt about it.
00:01:05Well, guys, the biggest story of the week is an extremely sad one.
00:01:09We're doing this on Wednesday, and it will appear on Thursday.
00:01:14So keep that in mind when you're talking about the chronology of our reporting here.
00:01:20But what we know right now is Wayne Lucas is very sick.
00:01:24He's so sick that he has retired from training.
00:01:26That in and of itself tells you how bad this must be.
00:01:30I thought this guy would be doing this until he was 105 years old,
00:01:33and there was nothing in the world that could get him to step down, get off that pony in the morning,
00:01:38and go off into retirement or do something else.
00:01:43But, you know, and now it's time to just have memories of him.
00:01:47And, you know, the word great gets thrown around much too easily, or the greatest of all time,
00:01:55almost to the point where it's a cliche, not with Wayne Lucas.
00:01:58He was a great trainer, and I would argue that he was the greatest trainer of all time for many reasons,
00:02:03one of which he revolutionized the sport.
00:02:06You know, we talk about these super trainers now.
00:02:08Before Lucas came around, there was no such thing.
00:02:10He was the first guy to have multiple divisions.
00:02:13He put horses on planes.
00:02:14If he thought the horse could win the Ohio Derby, he'd run him in the Ohio Derby.
00:02:18He wasn't afraid to do anything, and he laid the groundwork for the trainers that have come after him,
00:02:23including his protege, Todd Pletcher.
00:02:25He was a great university.
00:02:30He, you know, if you just think of the people that have come out of the school of Wayne,
00:02:34Mark Hennig, most notably Todd Pletcher, Dallas Stewart, you know, his son as well.
00:02:41Just amazing.
00:02:42The first time I ever had anything to do with Wayne, I'd kind of heard of the name Wayne Lucas.
00:02:48I didn't come over to the States until 1994, and I was working for Michael Dickinson,
00:02:54and we were running the horse at Hollywood Park.
00:02:58So I was taking him down to school, and I remember leading him down.
00:03:02The horse is a bit of a dick.
00:03:04He would drag me all over the place.
00:03:05I didn't even know what a lip chain was then.
00:03:07So I'm getting drugged down, and he, like, drags me almost through this, like,
00:03:12white shed row with a white picket fence and all this green and white.
00:03:16He's dragging me, and he heads straight for the grass, which is, you know,
00:03:20you didn't touch that grass at Wayne's Barn.
00:03:23So I go down there.
00:03:23I'm like, what's going on?
00:03:25One of his grooms came out and put a lip chain on him and showed me, you know,
00:03:28how to lead him properly.
00:03:29And I just imagine looking at this pristine shed row in awe, and I was like,
00:03:36whose shed row is that?
00:03:38They're like, D. Wayne Lucas.
00:03:40I'm like, does he not have a first name?
00:03:42What's the D for?
00:03:43I had no clue who this guy was.
00:03:45So we run the horse in the swaps, and, of course, Wayne wins it.
00:03:49And I just remembered seeing this guy with the massive sunglasses on,
00:03:53the white bridles, and was just like, wow, this is real America.
00:03:58And I was just in awe, and he won it.
00:04:01DeHoss was second to Thunder Gulch that day.
00:04:04And it was just astounding to see something coming from England.
00:04:08And things were regimented.
00:04:10I worked for Samart Prescott over there, but I'd never seen anything like D. Wayne Lucas.
00:04:14And then as the years progressed, we saw more of D. Wayne Lucas.
00:04:18In fact, one summer, I got to work for him at Saratoga,
00:04:21and this is when Dallas Stewart was working for him.
00:04:24We were on the Oklahoma training track, and Wayne liked his horses.
00:04:27You had to ride short and let them roll around there.
00:04:30So I was rolling this horse around the training track one morning,
00:04:34and I get to Wayne, who was stood at the 3-8 pole, and he's waving me on like this.
00:04:38Go faster! Go faster!
00:04:41I get to Dallas, who was standing up by the 7-8 pole, and he'd be slowing me down.
00:04:46Every time I went around, Wayne would be waving me on, and Dallas would be slowing me down.
00:04:50He just – and to this day, he's just a remarkable human being,
00:04:55and his loss will be a great loss to the sport of horse racing.
00:05:00He's done so much, bringing the kids into the winner's circle.
00:05:04He's been a true advocate for horse racing even right up to now.
00:05:08So just wishing him and Laurie, his wife, and his whole family,
00:05:12you know, just wishing them my best, to be honest.
00:05:15He's been around for so long.
00:05:18He's been so resilient.
00:05:20He's made so many comebacks.
00:05:22I mean, you know, reading the reports, unfortunately, I guess it's not going to happen this time,
00:05:27but it's almost like you wouldn't be surprised at all, you know,
00:05:30if a month later the headlines are, hey, Wayne has beaten the illness,
00:05:35and he's making another comeback, and he'll be back at the barn and back on his pony.
00:05:39It's just been an unbelievable run for Wayne in so many different ways.
00:05:44I mean, you know, Bill, you mentioned how he revolutionized the sport.
00:05:48I mean, Jack Van Berg had multiple divisions around the country back in the late 70s and early 80s,
00:05:54and was all the time flying around on his airplane.
00:05:58But Wayne would target individual major stakes races and fly horses around the country.
00:06:04I think he was the first trainer to really treat the profession like he was the CEO of a major corporation.
00:06:13And then, of course, you know, there's the incredible organization and the hyper positivity that Wayne always had about everything,
00:06:23and just the most unbelievable ambassador for the sport that there ever has been.
00:06:29And anytime anybody needed a comment about a key issue that was going on in thoroughbred racing,
00:06:35you know, Wayne was always right there front and center, and he always had something really interesting to say.
00:06:41We just hung out with him.
00:06:43I mean, I covered him in the media for 45 years, really, since 1980.
00:06:48And we were just hanging around him at Pimlico and marveling at how sharp he was and how he was still getting on his pony in the morning.
00:06:59And Jerry Bailey and I did a sit-down interview with him and Bob Baffert and Wayne, just as sharp as ever.
00:07:04And I guess he still is.
00:07:06But you learned something new almost every time you talked to Wayne.
00:07:14I mean, just at Pimlico, he was telling us about how he wrote poetry.
00:07:19And apparently, he's really good at it.
00:07:22And he was quoting some of his poetry.
00:07:26And we're standing there like, really?
00:07:29Wayne Lucas writes poetry?
00:07:30And then he tells me, we're just kind of, you know, shooting the you-know-what.
00:07:36And I don't know how this topic came up, right?
00:07:38As a younger man, Wayne dated Angie Dickinson and Olivia Newton-John.
00:07:44Oh, my goodness.
00:07:45Who the hell knew that?
00:07:48And he was telling me about how he went out on a date with Olivia Newton-John.
00:07:53And this was, you know, at the peak of Olivia Newton-John, right?
00:07:56And she invited him back to her house at Malibu to take a romantic walk on the beach, nighttime walk on the beach with her dog.
00:08:06And Wayne said no, because he had to get up and be at the barn at 4.30 in the morning.
00:08:12I'm like, Wayne, we've all made bad decisions in life.
00:08:16This might be your number one bad decision that you made, not going back home with Olivia Newton-John.
00:08:22Oh, my God.
00:08:22That is amazing.
00:08:24So many, so many Wayne Lucas stories.
00:08:27And just, yeah, thoughts and prayers with the Lucas family.
00:08:32And it's a big one.
00:08:35We'll see.
00:08:36You know, he's had, he's the cat.
00:08:38He's had nine lives.
00:08:39He's been counted out so many times.
00:08:42And there was a period, let's see, I would say from, I actually wrote this.
00:08:47I should know the statistics.
00:08:48But I believe in 2020 to 2023, something like that.
00:08:52He didn't win a single stakes race.
00:08:54And, you know, he was, he, his whole image had changed.
00:08:58You know, he went from being this powerhouse trainer to just a beloved, avuncular figure in horse racing.
00:09:06But if you would have told me at that point that he would still come back and win a triple crown race with Seize the Gray.
00:09:12He would win the Kentucky Oaks with Secret Oath.
00:09:16I would have said, no way.
00:09:17I mean, nobody's sending this guy any horses.
00:09:19And I believe this latter period of his career, if you can get back in there, Randy, and ask him these questions and, you know, get some stories told him.
00:09:30He seemed happier that he really enjoyed this role.
00:09:34Sure, he would like to win 400 races a year like Brad Cox, but he wasn't going to do that at his age.
00:09:40There was no pressure.
00:09:41He was beloved by everybody in the industry.
00:09:43He was still winning major races.
00:09:46And he did.
00:09:47He seemed different.
00:09:48He was just, I mean, he wasn't all hyper.
00:09:51He was calm.
00:09:52You know, he was always smiling.
00:09:54And I think, you know, it's good for him that that late in life, he was still a very productive horse trainer.
00:10:01And you just imagine that this is a guy who's in the Quarter Horse Hall of Fame.
00:10:07He didn't switch over to thoroughbreds.
00:10:10I read somewhere he was 42 when he won his first thoroughbred race.
00:10:13Equibase says that he actually ran horses in 1974 and then took a break for a couple of years to 77, where he won his first race at Santa Anita at age 42.
00:10:24Now, you look at the likes of Brad Cox and what they've done already at about the same age.
00:10:30Imagine if Wayne had started off with the thoroughbreds in his 20s, in his 30s.
00:10:36I mean, he would have set every record nobody would have ever broken.
00:10:41He's just been amazing.
00:10:42Almost 5,000 wins to his credit.
00:10:4426 Eclipse Award champions.
00:10:48Just a true amazing man.
00:10:50One more story.
00:10:51His lovely wife, Laurie.
00:10:52When they first started dating, Wayne, you know, tried to make her go out with him.
00:10:57And I remember having this conversation with her a few years ago.
00:10:59She's like, I don't want anything to do with him.
00:11:01You know, he's this big time horse trainer.
00:11:03She's like, just leave me alone.
00:11:05She finally went on a date with him and they hit it off and everything was all hunky-dory.
00:11:10I can't remember what year it was, but it was at Churchill Downs on Derby Day.
00:11:14And she was trying to get into the paddock.
00:11:16It was probably 10 years ago because I was working for HRTV.
00:11:19And they wouldn't let her into the paddock.
00:11:21And she was like, I'm with Wayne Lucas.
00:11:24And the guy looked her up and down and he's like, oh yeah, okay, lady.
00:11:29Because they were so used to Wayne having, you know, younger ladies around him and Wayne would joke.
00:11:34I finally found one that's closer to my age and it's awesome.
00:11:38And then she just was rolling her eyes.
00:11:40And I got her into the paddock, but they wouldn't let her into the paddock because they didn't believe her.
00:11:44We laughed about that for years.
00:11:47It was amazing.
00:11:49So I have a Lucas story too about the personal story.
00:11:531995 Kentucky Derby.
00:11:56I had covered the Santa Anita Derby back when newspapers actually covered horse racing leading up to the Santa Anita Derby.
00:12:06And Lucas had timber country among his starters in the 1995 Kentucky Derby.
00:12:12And I thought there was, I won't go too much into it, but I hated timber country.
00:12:17I thought he had no chance.
00:12:18I thought it was going to be way up the track.
00:12:20And I like this kind of, I mean, you guys wouldn't even remember a horse, but you know, Jomron, who ran back then.
00:12:26See, no, but you remember him, Randy?
00:12:28I remember him, yeah.
00:12:28So I was telling him about Jomron.
00:12:30I said, Wayne, watch out for this horse.
00:12:31He's going to beat you.
00:12:32And he's, give me a break.
00:12:34And he's kind of, you know, a little bit like it was trained.
00:12:37Jomron was trained by kind of a real low-key nobody trainer.
00:12:39And not in a rude way, but he said, look, I'm not going to lose to that guy.
00:12:43It's just not going to happen.
00:12:45So he bet me $500 horse for horse who would win.
00:12:52Son of a bitch.
00:12:53Timber country beat Jomron.
00:12:55They were the third and fourth, beat Jomron by about a half a length.
00:12:58And I was, and it looked like I had him the whole way down the stretch.
00:13:01So a little old me, I have to come back to this barn the next day with my tail completely between my legs.
00:13:06The only way I was going to be able to pay him, I'm not going to walk him around carrying $500, is I had to go to an ATM.
00:13:12So I took $500 out of the ATM, handed him a big wad of $20 bills.
00:13:17I think he might have enjoyed that more than any race that he ever won.
00:13:21And I'd hear about it.
00:13:22Ten years later, I'd hear about it.
00:13:23Twenty years later, I'd hear about it.
00:13:25But, you know, that was a fun aspect of him.
00:13:28And he got me.
00:13:30I should have known better.
00:13:33So, Bill, you mentioned timber country.
00:13:34We all talk about records in every sport, records that will never be broken in horse racing.
00:13:38There's the 31-length secretary at Belmont win in 224.
00:13:42There's Woody Stevens with five straight Belmonts.
00:13:45Well, timber country was right in the middle of the streak that Wayne had of six consecutive triple crown race victories.
00:13:54Tabasco Cat in the Preakness and the Belmont.
00:13:58The next year, this would be 1995, Thunder Gulch wins the Derby, timber country, the Preakness.
00:14:06Thunder Gulch comes back to take the Belmont stakes, right?
00:14:10That's five in a row.
00:14:12And then Grindstone in 1996 wins the Kentucky Derby.
00:14:16That's a record, I think, that'll never be broken.
00:14:19Well, as Randy pointed out, there were so many different aspects to this man's life and his career, more so than just a horse trainer.
00:14:26And I didn't know this until people had started talking about it.
00:14:30And Randy just mentioned it on the podcast that he was a very good poet.
00:14:35Now, I'm not one to be able to judge poetry that well, but here's one he wrote, and I know he was giving it to people and talking about around Preakness time.
00:14:44So this isn't that long ago.
00:14:47It's called Out of Time.
00:14:49As I woke up today with a troubled and uneasy mind, only to realize in this wonderful life, I was running out of time.
00:14:55I am a poet with a verse that would not rhyme or a simple dance or a step and a half behind.
00:15:00I thought of all the ups and downs in a life so very real and strong, knowing God has blessed me in every way as I struggle and work to move along.
00:15:07So today, I will love each and every one as if they were truly mine, as I realize and know I'm running out of time.
00:15:14I do want to remind you that the TDN Rights' Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:15:18Vava was a 280,000 graduate of the 2021 Keeneland September sale,
00:15:24and she pushed her earnings to just under $2 million with a win in last Saturday's Grade 2 Chicago stakes at Churchill Downs.
00:15:32That was her fifth graded stakes win, including last year's Grade 1 Derby City disc stop.
00:15:38This year's Keeneland September sale runs from September the 8th through September the 20th.
00:15:43It all comes down to this.
00:15:47Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
00:15:48The moment that defines the year.
00:15:51When the world's most influential buyers gather.
00:15:54And every decision, every bid, every opportunity shapes the future.
00:16:01At a marketplace that brings the thoroughbred world together.
00:16:05And where futures are forged.
00:16:07Because every moment matters.
00:16:10At the world's yearling sale, Keeneland September.
00:16:15This week's fastest source of the week brought to you by Nashville.
00:16:19One of the fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:16:22The six-fur long track record holder at Keeneland.
00:16:25107.89.
00:16:28Almost a full second faster than the Breeders' Cup Sprint held later that same day.
00:16:32Well, now as a stallion, Nashville bred 368 mares in his first two books.
00:16:39And 10 of his first yearlings will be on offer at the upcoming basic Tipton July yearling sale.
00:16:46July the 8th.
00:16:49Now the fastest source of the week.
00:16:51So we just talked about her.
00:16:53Vava.
00:16:54Just trot Vava out at any six and a half or seven furlong race at Churchill Lounds.
00:17:00And stand back and watch the fireworks.
00:17:03And she did it again in the Chicago Stakes.
00:17:06She is now five for six lifetime at Churchill Lounds.
00:17:10She rebounded from a couple of disappointing efforts in the Breeders' Cup Billion Mare Sprint.
00:17:15And also in the Derby City Distap in the Slop at Churchill Lounds.
00:17:19But she did it in a big way last Saturday.
00:17:22Winning the Chicago with a buyer's speed figure of 97.
00:17:27Vava, our fastest source of the week.
00:17:35Welcome in now to Gainesway Guest of the Week.
00:17:37It's trainer Kenny McPeak, who's going to have a very busy weekend.
00:17:40His two stable stars, Torpedo Anna and Mystic Dan, in the entries at Churchill Lounds on Saturday.
00:17:45But Kenny, before we get to that, being the hard-hitting journalist that I am,
00:17:49I hate to do this, but I've got to ask you this question.
00:17:53The tattoo.
00:17:55WTF?
00:18:00Oh, look at that.
00:18:02All right.
00:18:03So what?
00:18:04Did you get real drunk one night or what?
00:18:06No.
00:18:07You know, I have always said that if I ever won the Derby, that would be the tattoo I would get.
00:18:14But Sherry went to a charity auction, one of the aftercare auctions, and someone had offered up a tattoo session.
00:18:24And she bought it at a charity auction.
00:18:27And then I've been sitting on it for a while.
00:18:31And I was like, yeah, you know, I really actually, I'm going to do that.
00:18:35I'm going to do that.
00:18:36You know, something I'm very proud of.
00:18:38But, you know, if you're going to get a tattoo, make it work, you like, make it something that you accomplished.
00:18:43I mean, not, you know, not something just arbitrary, you know.
00:18:47So, yeah, I decided to do it.
00:18:51And then I started communicating with the tattoo artist.
00:18:54And she was great.
00:18:56And we kind of put some ideas together.
00:18:59And then I actually wanted something, let's just say medium size.
00:19:03I didn't want to go, like, too far over, but she kept saying, you have a big arm, you're a man, you need a big tattoo.
00:19:11I said, let's see what you got.
00:19:13And we tinkered back and forth with it.
00:19:16And honestly, I love it.
00:19:19I love it.
00:19:19It's freaking awesome.
00:19:21And, you know, that's just something, you know, look, I'm no spring chicken anymore.
00:19:25I'm 62.
00:19:27You know, it's too close to 80, if you ask me.
00:19:29So, if you're going to do something in life, you might as well, you know, go big or go home.
00:19:34And I've got, like, 99.9% positives.
00:19:40And I've had a few people say, how could you do that to yourself?
00:19:44I did it.
00:19:45Whatever.
00:19:46I hope you feel the same way about it five years from now.
00:19:50I don't know from experience, but I hear if you change your mind about that, it's very painful to try to get that up.
00:19:56No, I'm definitely not going to change my mind.
00:19:59And I think she did a wonderful job on it.
00:20:01It's actually beautiful.
00:20:02And, you know, it hurt.
00:20:05I mean, for those that have had tattoos, I have a deep respect now for those that have got full body tattoos and things.
00:20:12It hurts.
00:20:13I mean, when I say that, you know, you have to grit and bear it there.
00:20:18And, you know, like she said, oh, you'll get used to the pain.
00:20:22And kind of did.
00:20:26You know, I actually stayed on the phone and kept myself busy.
00:20:29You have to prop your arm up into a little sling.
00:20:33And, you know, it's actually a nice little setup.
00:20:35But, you know, I just tried to keep my mind off, you know, what she was doing and let her do her work.
00:20:40And I've got so many comments.
00:20:43I can't comprehend how much attention it's gotten.
00:20:48I'm actually shocked at the amount of attention it's gotten.
00:20:50And my nine-year-old daughter sat through it, watched it, right?
00:20:55And that's actually probably a bad idea for most parents out there.
00:20:59Don't allow your students or your children to watch.
00:21:04So now she wants one.
00:21:06I said, no, absolutely not.
00:21:09You have to accomplish something in your life prior to it.
00:21:11It has to be something of significance.
00:21:14And she says, well, how old do I have to be?
00:21:16I said, 30.
00:21:17She said, what about 18?
00:21:21You know, so we shall see.
00:21:24So I can just imagine what might have been.
00:21:27How many times did you have to remind the tattoo artist that Mystic is spelled with a K and not a C?
00:21:32Well, she actually, the first print, she actually spelled torpedo wrong and Mystic wrong.
00:21:40Oh, wow.
00:21:41But no, but she didn't ink it on me.
00:21:44She just did the, there's like a little, what they call the, I don't know what you call it.
00:21:52But you have a little ink thing that you put on there as a test and gives her the outlines.
00:21:57And no, we didn't put the wrong names on there.
00:22:01Thank God.
00:22:02No, no regerts.
00:22:03As in no regrets.
00:22:09Okay.
00:22:10Yeah.
00:22:12Chloe, she gets, Zoe gets it.
00:22:14Yeah.
00:22:14I got it.
00:22:15That was a good movie.
00:22:16That was a very good movie.
00:22:17Well, I'm proud of you, Kenny, because I have several and you're right.
00:22:21It, it's kind of a painful experience.
00:22:24So, so well done.
00:22:25You'll have to show them to me sometime.
00:22:28Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
00:22:29Yeah.
00:22:29I can see a few more in your future.
00:22:32You might have to start lifting some weights though, Popeye.
00:22:35I mean, you got to have some guns to show those off.
00:22:38I've always worked out.
00:22:39Are you kidding me?
00:22:41All right.
00:22:42Well, proof is in the book.
00:22:44The happiness I carry around.
00:22:46I'm good.
00:22:46So both, so both the horses that are on your arm are running at, uh, at Churchill Downs
00:22:51on Saturday.
00:22:52Just a nice little generic softball question.
00:22:56How are they doing?
00:22:57Well, I mean, superb.
00:22:59Um, you know, it's been a real honor to be around two horses of such talent level and,
00:23:03and they've remained consistent.
00:23:06And, you know, obviously, you know, these are, well, her race is hers for the taking.
00:23:11If she'll go back to her previous form.
00:23:12And I expect her to.
00:23:15And, um, and his race is a tough race.
00:23:17I mean, it, it probably is the race of the year.
00:23:20I don't know what your all's opinion is of that, but I mean, that is really deep water.
00:23:24Um, the horse that comes out of that at victorious is going to be, um, I would say, I would assume
00:23:30the early favorite for the classic and, and, um, you know, they've all got their work cut
00:23:35out for him.
00:23:35And I think my horse is going into Mystic Dan.
00:23:37It's just been fantastic for the last month.
00:23:40And we, um, you know, going into it, we, we feel like we've got a huge chance.
00:23:47What about Thorpedo Anna's last race?
00:23:50I know you've been over her with a fine tooth comb and you can't find anything.
00:23:54Is that just a complete toss?
00:23:56Well, I think she got the breath knocked out of her in that first turn, all the bumping.
00:24:01Um, actually Johnny Velasquez was probably was the most informative about it all.
00:24:06Um, I asked him his take on it.
00:24:08He said, Kenny, he said, when, when Rosario came over on us, Rosario knocked Thorpedo Anna
00:24:15into, uh, I believe it was Darth Vader and then Darth Vader hit the rail.
00:24:21And then when she hit the rail, she, her hind end came back over and hit broadsided Anna
00:24:26again.
00:24:27Um, you know, that, that's pretty extreme.
00:24:29I mean, I don't understand why stewards don't do something about that.
00:24:34That's, you know, it was just for me, you know, that's the only way they were going to
00:24:39beat her and they did it.
00:24:40So congrats.
00:24:42Um, I don't, I don't know where Rosario, what Rosario was thinking, or if he was told to
00:24:46do that, but that was just a rough day at the office.
00:24:48And, you know, and since then she's, she's done everything like you'd ask her to.
00:24:53And, um, you know, unless, unless, uh, for whatever reason, if she, if she does that performance
00:24:59this weekend, I'll be shocked, but, you know, look, it's horse racing.
00:25:02It's a very humbling business.
00:25:03So we will, um, you know, right now she's done everything right.
00:25:07Like she's always done.
00:25:08And, uh, I hate, I hate for one race to, to, for people to forget about her.
00:25:12It seems like they have, but I hope not.
00:25:15Not me.
00:25:16I'm going to the bank, especially after the next year.
00:25:19Good.
00:25:20So you've always been a hyper positive kind of guy.
00:25:24Um, when mystic Dan ran in the Pegasus world cup and ran so poorly, it had to be difficult
00:25:31not to be pretty discouraged at that point, uh, and maybe lose a little confidence or
00:25:36whatever, then he bounces back and wins at Oakland and wins the blame.
00:25:41I mean, how gratifying has it been, uh, to see him back to his peak form?
00:25:45Well, I think we got too ambitious or, you know, I'll take the bullet on that.
00:25:50We got too ambitious coming out of the triple crown.
00:25:52We thought that the Malibu was, it was a good spot.
00:25:55It didn't look like that was, it was that tough a race.
00:25:58We actually wanted to showcase him sprinting a little bit to, as, as a sire, um, to attract
00:26:06people for, to him as a stallion.
00:26:08Um, it completely backfired.
00:26:10The trip out there was a mistake on my part.
00:26:13I should have skipped the race.
00:26:15We, we, we trucked him out.
00:26:17We thought we could logistically pull it off.
00:26:19It, it didn't work.
00:26:21I mean, that, that's not on the horse that's on me and that's on, you know, the team, I
00:26:26suppose.
00:26:27Um, and then the trip to California, once again, I think we were too ambitious.
00:26:32We really needed to, to step laddering and, um, you know, look, training horses is so inexact
00:26:39and there's never, it's never black or white.
00:26:42It's always gray.
00:26:43And in hindsight, um, you're a genius.
00:26:46And, um, but fortunately I had a wonderful client said, do what you think's right.
00:26:54Uh, Dr.
00:26:55Bramwich has, has looked over him and said, look, you know, horse is really, you know,
00:26:59fine.
00:27:00Just reset.
00:27:02We reset.
00:27:04And I think we're getting rewarded for it.
00:27:06If we were to win the Stephen Foster this weekend, I think it's a testament to the team.
00:27:12And, and, um, just really glad to have him back, you know, where he was and back on his
00:27:17game.
00:27:18So let, let's suppose that in 2026, you're fortunate enough to get a clone of Mystic Dan and you win
00:27:27the Kentucky Derby again in 2026.
00:27:30Is there anything you might do differently?
00:27:34Well, I think you've got to take it horse, horse by horse, but, but, you know, you really
00:27:38can't look backwards.
00:27:39I mean, he, he, he runs second in the Preakness.
00:27:43Okay.
00:27:43You're back in two weeks.
00:27:44He ran flat in the Belmont that happens.
00:27:48Um, it's, that just tells you how tough a horse has to be to run an all three and win
00:27:52all three, of course.
00:27:54Um, but you know, you know, you don't, you don't look backwards too much.
00:27:59You, you learn from that, but every horse is different and you don't think you're ever
00:28:03going to get a clone of him.
00:28:04And, um, in hindsight, you know, we've done a lot, right.
00:28:09So let's enjoy that.
00:28:14Um, Kenny, you've got a very busy weekend.
00:28:17You've got 10 horses in maiden races this weekend at Churchill.
00:28:22If my counting is correct, how many horses do you have at Churchill?
00:28:26Because 10 maidens, that's a lot.
00:28:28And that's a big future.
00:28:30Like you, you're, you're amped up and you're ready to roll.
00:28:33Well, we, we are, we're pretty patient with, with, um, our young horses.
00:28:39So our two-year-olds are just now coming around.
00:28:42And then we've got a list of three-year-olds that are, that are, that have come around and
00:28:48horses that had things like a tibia and, um, little issues that nothing major that just
00:28:56haven't made the races until now.
00:28:58And we do have a lot of depth.
00:29:00I mean, you know, with everything that's happened in the last year, we've got great depth of
00:29:06quality horses.
00:29:07And I think the stable is getting stronger.
00:29:10And I think you're going to see our second half be pretty significant.
00:29:13I think we're going 50, going on 50 wins in the first half already.
00:29:17And I've never done that before.
00:29:19Yeah.
00:29:19I've never done well.
00:29:20If you count the Saudi Arabia race, the King's cup, um, that was a nice win, but it doesn't
00:29:26record in the records.
00:29:27But, um, you know, I've got a great team of people right now and, and I've, I've been like,
00:29:33I've been kind of slowly getting stronger and getting our whole outfits getting stronger.
00:29:37And it's a reflection of the clients.
00:29:39It's a reflection of the horses and the team.
00:29:41So you mentioned Saudi Arabia and you mentioned your great team, which leads me to the Jimmy
00:29:46Jerkins question.
00:29:48Tell us about the hiring of, uh, of Jimmy as part of your team.
00:29:53Well, um, you know, I've known Jimmy for decades.
00:29:57Um, uh, I knew his father.
00:29:58Well, um, obviously had world of respect for, for, for Jimmy.
00:30:03And, you know, that, that was something that I tiptoed around a little bit in the sense that,
00:30:07you know, Jimmy's perfectly capable of doing his own thing at any time.
00:30:11But I think him coming back from Saudi Arabia and, and, and, and I cross paths with him
00:30:18in Saudi when I was over there and we visited and I asked him what he was going to do when
00:30:23he came back and he wasn't sure.
00:30:25And then it kind of came into my head, you know, boy, he'd be a great man that, that I
00:30:30didn't have to worry about a New York division.
00:30:32Um, of course I would worry about it, but I don't have to micromanage anything, you know?
00:30:40And so I said to him, I said, you know, look, I need a really good guy there, but if you're
00:30:45going to set up, look fine.
00:30:47If you're not, if you want to maybe what I'd call collaborate, then let's talk about it.
00:30:54And we talked and, and look, he's so talented and, you know, like any team, you're only as
00:31:01good as the people you've got in place.
00:31:03And I've always had a weakness in New York and specifically in Long Island or Belmont,
00:31:09because I'm not a New York guy.
00:31:12I mean, I'm not, I don't like being up in that area too much.
00:31:16I like shipping in, leaving, but if you're asking me to stay day to day, it's just not
00:31:21my world.
00:31:21Everybody knows I kind of bounce between Lexington and Louisville.
00:31:24Um, I go South during the winter.
00:31:26I love Saratoga, but Belmont's not been.
00:31:30And so I said to Jimmy, I said, you know, I need somebody to hold the fort down there.
00:31:35And, um, look, he's well-paid and we, we, we think like this, you know, we're, when we
00:31:41talk about horses, we think we speak the same language, you know, I'm not going to force
00:31:46him to do anything with a horse.
00:31:47He's not comfortable with.
00:31:48He's going to communicate back to me what he's dealing with.
00:31:52Um, you know, if a horse needs time, then they get time.
00:31:56You know, we've moved some in, we move some out.
00:31:58We've got eight more going to him tomorrow.
00:32:02Um, you know, I'm excited about it.
00:32:04Very excited.
00:32:05Me too.
00:32:06It relieves, it relieves me of, of having to, to, to head in there a lot.
00:32:11And I think that Jimmy's as, as good as any, like, you know, full trainer there.
00:32:16It's like, it's, it's just a, it really is.
00:32:18It's a strong team.
00:32:19Kenny, you pulled off a pretty big upset, uh, recently in the Monomoy girl states, immersive
00:32:25coming back.
00:32:26She's looks like she's a cinch on paper and you beat her with shake charge milady.
00:32:30Did you see that coming at all?
00:32:31I did.
00:32:32Um, you know, that Philly is a spinning image of take charge lady for those that remember
00:32:37her and that Philly has had, um, some foot issues over the winter that we, that we, you
00:32:44know, dealt with.
00:32:45Actually, we had to really tiptoe into the Oaks, um, because her, she had a little corner
00:32:51crack that we were watching and we were afraid it was going to open.
00:32:54And then she just didn't handle the mud and the Oaks, but her race in the Ashland was superb.
00:33:01And she had a really good winter at Oak Lawn.
00:33:04And I think you're going to see this Philly.
00:33:06I may, I may skip the coaching club.
00:33:09I may wait for the Alabama and, and what I'd call fire her best shot, because I think she
00:33:16could win the Alabama if everything went right.
00:33:18So that's a, that's a Philly I'm real excited about.
00:33:22She's gorgeous.
00:33:23Um, you know, I'm big on the pedigree line.
00:33:27She's just, she's by take charge Indy.
00:33:29Take charge Indy is out of take charge lady.
00:33:32And I believe that the way that the pedigrees or the genetics push that she is her father's
00:33:39daughter and, and, and her father is, you know, take charge lady.
00:33:43The, the line, the line really shows up and I do think take charge Indy will be a good
00:33:48broodmare sire because of take charge lady.
00:33:52Um, so, you know, look, I, when I go to an auction, that's what I look for.
00:33:56And yeah, I only gave 60 grand for, so it's all gravy.
00:33:59And, um, yeah, it's, it's, and I think she may get better as a year.
00:34:03She might end up in the distaff by fall if all goes right.
00:34:06Um, I've got one more question.
00:34:08We started off the show while talking about D Wayne Lucas and his retirement.
00:34:14Do you have any favorite memories that you have of Wayne that you could just impart with
00:34:19us quickly?
00:34:21I mean, so many, I couldn't, it would take us hours, but when I first walked on the racetrack,
00:34:29when I was young, I went to the Keeneland track kitchen and I went up to, to Wayne's barn
00:34:35because that's who I wanted to work for and he hadn't shipped in yet.
00:34:39And then, um, I walked across the street and took a job for Shug McGehee as a hall walker.
00:34:46And I was green and young and I think I was 20, 21 or 22 at the time.
00:34:53And, um, a couple of days later, Wayne shipped in and he came in with a horse named Marfa.
00:34:57For those that remember Marfa.
00:35:01And, um, I remember going over and Wayne had Marfa out grazing and I went over and said
00:35:07hello to him.
00:35:09And, uh, that was the first time I'd ever met him.
00:35:11And we talked for a while and, uh, he said, he said, why don't you come to work for me?
00:35:18And I said, like that.
00:35:19And he says, but I want you to go to Oklahoma for the winter.
00:35:22I said, Oklahoma, why Oklahoma?
00:35:26And he says, well, we need help in Oklahoma because he had a training center in Oklahoma
00:35:34at the time.
00:35:35He had just spent a lot of money on that training center.
00:35:37Yeah.
00:35:37Yeah.
00:35:38And so, and so I did not go to Oklahoma.
00:35:40I stayed with Shug through the fall and then, and then, um, after the fall, um, you know,
00:35:46actually left the racetrack for a while and didn't come back until late the next, later
00:35:50of the next year.
00:35:52So I did not go to Oklahoma and, um, I wished I had.
00:35:55And then, um, over the years though, you know, Wayne has always been ultra friendly.
00:36:03I mean, I, I consider him somewhat of a father figure to me.
00:36:07Um, our Saratoga summers for decades has been, he and I are on the back line of the Oklahoma
00:36:15track and I'm going to miss him because we had a lot of great conversations out there,
00:36:21just he and I, and, and, and for probably the past 15 plus years, it usually was just
00:36:28he and I, he would be on his pony.
00:36:30I'd be on the rail.
00:36:31Um, and, um, just a real special guy.
00:36:35I mean, and I mean, I hope, um, you know, look, I mean, I hope he's not suffering and,
00:36:41you know, he's, he's set the bar so high that many will never reach it.
00:36:49Very good.
00:36:49Well, Kenny, thank you so much for your insights.
00:36:52Best of luck this weekend with your two big horses, Torpedo Anna and Mystic Dan, and we'll
00:36:57catch up with you again soon.
00:36:58All right.
00:36:59Thanks for having me, gang.
00:37:00Cheers, Kenny.
00:37:01Thanks, Kenny.
00:37:02All right.
00:37:02See ya.
00:37:06Save room on that other arm.
00:37:08You still got more good horses coming up.
00:37:10That's it.
00:37:10That's English Derby.
00:37:12Oh, okay.
00:37:13I'll hold you to that.
00:37:15I'll hold you to that.
00:37:16You watch me.
00:37:17You watch me.
00:37:18Got it.
00:37:21Our guest of the week, Ken McPeak, brought to you by Gainesway, home of Tappet.
00:37:27Now for a couple of quick Tappet stats for you.
00:37:30In case you might have forgotten how dominant of a sire Tappet has been and continues to be,
00:37:37he's the number one active lifetime sire by stakes winners.
00:37:41That would be 329.
00:37:43By graded stakes winners, 106.
00:37:45Grade one winners, 33.
00:37:47As well as graded stakes horses and grade one stakes horses.
00:37:52He's also number one in progeny earnings.
00:37:55That currently stands at over 217 million and counting.
00:38:01And Tappet was America's leading broodmare sire in 2023, 2024, and again currently in 2025.
00:38:10The home of Tappet.
00:38:11Gainesway.
00:38:12Power.
00:38:12Passion.
00:38:13Performance.
00:38:14Performance.
00:38:14We'll see you next time.
00:38:44Last week was Royal Ascot and Zoe Cadman is our, obviously our European expert with
00:38:52her roots in England, but we were avoiding the bear.
00:38:56What the heck does that mean, Zoe?
00:38:58Well, obviously I'm in lovely England right now.
00:39:00And, you know, Doodle made NBC Nightly News.
00:39:04Did you see Doodle on the news?
00:39:05Did either one of you?
00:39:07I wish I didn't know he was going to be on.
00:39:09Yeah.
00:39:10He was NBC Nightly News and he made it on the TV over here in England.
00:39:15So I was sleeping quite peacefully in my bedroom in my house with no doors on it.
00:39:21There was a front door, but the bear got through the screen door.
00:39:23It was hot.
00:39:24I guess I was hoping for a man and not a bear in my kitchen.
00:39:27So the bear came through, ate all the cat food, had a good sniff around.
00:39:33And the only thing that woke me up was the bear opening the fridge doors and the light
00:39:39coming on.
00:39:39So I woke up and my bed is like 10 feet away from my kitchen.
00:39:43So I woke up and I'm like, Oh, what's that?
00:39:46I'm like, is that a man in my kitchen?
00:39:48I was like, Oh no.
00:39:49And then I'm like, Oh shit.
00:39:51It's a bear.
00:39:52So I'm like, what do I do?
00:39:54Do I take a picture?
00:39:55So I'm like, no, don't be stupid.
00:39:56So I jump out of bed.
00:39:58Meanwhile, you know, I'm obviously naked in bed because that's just me.
00:40:02So I jump out of bed, run out the front door, run around to the other side of the house
00:40:09to make sure the other doors open so I can get the bear out, run back around.
00:40:14The bears ambled its way out of the kitchen.
00:40:17Meanwhile, Doodle has started barking at it because he woke up.
00:40:21He's barking and wagging his tail.
00:40:23I slip in bear pee because the bear peed all over the kitchen.
00:40:27So Doodle's barking at the bear and I'm, everyone thinks I have a parrot now because
00:40:32I'm yelling at the bear and I guess I sound like a parrot when I'm trying to roar.
00:40:36Why I was roaring, I don't know.
00:40:38I just woke up and was like, anyway, so I got the bear out of the house finally, but
00:40:43she's obviously a repeat offender because she's tagged and she's wearing a GPS collar.
00:40:49And apparently she broke into my neighbors and ate their ice cream.
00:40:53But Doodle survived.
00:40:55He did survive.
00:40:56I'll send you the clip.
00:40:58Congratulations to Doodle.
00:40:59And yeah, I did see that clip.
00:41:01I didn't realize that was played on the national news.
00:41:04That was quite entertaining.
00:41:05And that's my dad walking behind me.
00:41:07Just in case you wonder who that old man is back there.
00:41:10It's my dad.
00:41:12Well, Zoe, let's get back to horse racing if we can.
00:41:16I don't know if I want to go on.
00:41:17That was such a good story.
00:41:18You're our European expert.
00:41:21What were the big stories at Royal Ascot?
00:41:23What do you remember most?
00:41:24Give us a wrap on the Royal Ascot meet.
00:41:26It was terrific.
00:41:28And one, it was a heat wave.
00:41:29So maybe a little too warm for some of my fellow Americans that went over there.
00:41:34And of course, the Brits were just pink, purple, bloated, and just very, very hot.
00:41:39Because it was unusually hot, which it's not now.
00:41:43We witnessed Charlie Appleby, who hasn't won a race there in the last three years, win with, who did he win with?
00:41:49Rebels Romance.
00:41:50Rebels Romance, yeah.
00:41:51How about Rebels Romance?
00:41:53He is now 18 for 26.
00:41:55He's seven years old.
00:41:57He's been running since he was a two-year-old.
00:41:59And he quite most definitely is Charlie Appleby's favorite horse.
00:42:02Everybody loves him.
00:42:03He always shows up.
00:42:04He's like the Black Stallion.
00:42:06That was the highlight for me.
00:42:08A lot of people said Trawler Man winning the Gold Cup for Godolphin as well.
00:42:13Did they pick up leading owner, Randy?
00:42:16I think they did.
00:42:16Leading owner was Coolmore.
00:42:19Oh, Coolmore.
00:42:20They were one behind Coolmore.
00:42:21So Coolmore got leading owner.
00:42:23Coolmore won five of the six two-year-old races.
00:42:26You think Gustave, Charles Darwin, the filly, what's her name, With Love or Love.
00:42:34She's just as good as the boys.
00:42:36They won five of the six two-year-old races.
00:42:39And Albert Einstein wasn't even there.
00:42:41That's his best two-year-old by far.
00:42:43He didn't even run at Royal Ascot.
00:42:45So Aiden O'Brien just cleared up in all the two-year-old races.
00:42:49Who else was there?
00:42:50Ryan Moore picked up the Jockey's Championship, even cracked a smile a few times, I might add.
00:42:55He was quite chipper and quite cherry.
00:42:58Jonathan Faddy Gosden, them picking up another win at Royal Ascot as well.
00:43:03So all in all, sunshine, good weather, firm, fast ground, and great racing.
00:43:11It was a terrific five days of racing.
00:43:13If you've never been, you've been right, Randy?
00:43:16No.
00:43:17You've been to Cheltenham, which is a bit cold and dreary.
00:43:21You've got to get to Ascot.
00:43:23Yeah.
00:43:23I mean, the most interesting parts about the five days to me, Field of Gold, I thought.
00:43:29Yes, terrific.
00:43:30The Judd Monohorts trained by the Gosdens, the three-year-old, had the best performance of Royal Ascot.
00:43:37He loves firm turf, and it was obviously very firm with the heat wave over there.
00:43:42And he also loves races that are strongly paced.
00:43:47So just on that, you would think that maybe the Breeders' Cup might be a possibility for him.
00:43:53But John Gosden's already talked about how much racing he has already had.
00:44:00So it wouldn't surprise me.
00:44:02And Judd Monohort is usually pretty keen about keeping their three-year-olds in training for their four-year-old season.
00:44:09So we may not see Field of Gold this year, but it would be nice if we did.
00:44:15With the firm turf over there, as Americans look ahead when we get to Breeders' Cup time,
00:44:19I think Royal Ascot is going to be a pretty good barometer for success in the United States because the turf was so firm.
00:44:29Rebels Romance will, if he stays sound, he'll be going to become the first three-time Breeders' Cup turf winner, 22 Keeneland, 24 at Del Mar.
00:44:40And the way he's running right now, he would have to be a pretty heavy favorite as we speak.
00:44:44And the other note that I thought was kind of interesting on a couple of different fronts, Kulmore won five races.
00:44:52So did Wathnan Racing.
00:44:56You know, Saudi Arabia with Judd Monohort, Ireland with Kulmore, Dubai with Godolphin have sort of ruled the world in international racing.
00:45:05But Cotter is really, really making a push.
00:45:11And Sheikh Tamim Al-Thani of the Royal Family is the emir of Cotter.
00:45:17He's the one behind, he's the money behind Wathnan Racing.
00:45:21And what's interesting is that Wathnan has now won 11 times at Royal Ascot.
00:45:25They've only, they only started racing at Royal Ascot in 2023.
00:45:29Wathnan has already won 11 times.
00:45:31And five this year.
00:45:34But during the week that Sheikh Tamim won the five races at Royal Ascot, he was also quite busy behind the scenes helping Donald Trump negotiate a ceasefire between Israel and Iran.
00:45:51And, you know, trying to, trying to navigate that whole minefield in the Middle East.
00:45:57So a lot of different hats being worn by, by Sheikh Tamim.
00:46:02I mean, he probably didn't even notice all the wins that he had at Royal Ascot.
00:46:07So the major race over the weekend in the U.S., it was kind of a quiet weekend, but we had talked on the podcast last week about the Ohio Derby.
00:46:14And I don't know how much we found out.
00:46:17It was a race that didn't really attract any of the big stars like it did when it got two fills, Randy Moss's favorite horse, to make his final career appearance.
00:46:27And so what did we find out?
00:46:29We found out that Moplex, who was a real nice New York bred, can go long in his first ever start around two turns.
00:46:37And after running in the seven furlong Bayshore, he won the race for trainer Jeremiah Engelhardt.
00:46:43So congratulations to them.
00:46:45And we learned something more about Clever again, the horse that was back in that, that mess in the Preakness with involving Flavian Pratt and Umberto Rispoli.
00:46:56And we, I think all three of us have said that, keep in mind that when he got in all that trouble, he was already backing up and he was not going to be anywhere near the top one, two in there.
00:47:08I took that to heart.
00:47:09I threw him away and he didn't get in any trouble, but he again ran like a horse that, that just, this was not up right up his alley.
00:47:17Right now he's got that one huge race in the hot springs with a one-on-one buyer.
00:47:22But since then, he's certainly not come anywhere close to duplicating that.
00:47:27Yeah.
00:47:27And I think the public sort of caught on to that as well.
00:47:30I thought he'd be the favorite, but when they went to post, Chunk of Gold was actually six to five and Clever again was nine to five.
00:47:39Chunk of Gold ran his typical solid race coming off a ninth place finish in the Kentucky Derby on a sea of slop, but he was just plugging away throughout the entire race.
00:47:49But I mean, how about Moplex?
00:47:50They had to call an audible.
00:47:52They were going to run him in, in a New York bred race.
00:47:55And that didn't pan out.
00:47:57So Jeremiah Englehart rerouted Moplex to the Ohio Derby.
00:48:02And lo and behold, he's now a graded stakes winner.
00:48:06How about the handle?
00:48:07Up 44% from last year.
00:48:10Now it was the only graded stake in the country that day at that time.
00:48:15So I believe that had an awful lot to do with it.
00:48:18So congrats to Pat Mackey, the racing secretary there at Thistledown, for organizing certain pick fives and, you know, exotic wages to kind of boost the handle.
00:48:30But up 44% from last year.
00:48:33I'm not sure about Moplex, how good he is going forward, but he certainly was the best of the rest in the Ohio Derby.
00:48:40Well, I wonder if they have access to our podcast in the Denver Contract Detention Facility.
00:48:49I doubt they do.
00:48:50But if they do, hi, Jorge.
00:48:52How you doing, pal?
00:48:53This is where Jorge Navarro has landed.
00:48:55He has been, was let out of jail last week, served three years and three months of a five-year sentence.
00:49:03But as his lawyer had mentioned at the time before he was even pled guilty, that because he's not a United States citizen, he was going to likely be deported.
00:49:13And that was when Biden was president, not Donald, I'm going to kick everybody the hell out of the country, Trump.
00:49:18So, sure enough, he goes, and the only way you can follow this on the internet, I haven't been able to, the lawyer hasn't called me back and I'm just going on various websites.
00:49:30But they must have been waiting for him right outside the jail he was in in Florida because the next day he was listed in a ice prison in Florida.
00:49:40Now, I don't know if they let him go home for an hour or two, if they were literally right at the prison doors, slapped a new pair of handcuffs on him and took him away.
00:49:50He has since been sent to this place in Denver.
00:49:53I have no idea why.
00:49:54But I got to think the next couple of years of Jorge Navarro's life might even be worse than the three years he spent in prison.
00:50:02Right now, he's a winner if he gets deported to Panama.
00:50:06He'll be all right if he does that.
00:50:07But the Trump administration has not been afraid to send criminals, which he is, to some hellish places like El Salvador.
00:50:18You know, look, I'm not going to root against the guy or gloat.
00:50:21We know what he did.
00:50:22We know what he did and what he meant, the harm he caused horse racing.
00:50:27But I'm glad to see.
00:50:28I don't think he's going to step foot on U.S. soil again the rest of his life and good riddance.
00:50:33He may wind up wishing that he was still in federal custody in the United States when all this is said and done.
00:50:41Congratulations on getting out early.
00:50:43Oh, oh, by the way, here's your ticket to El Salvador.
00:50:48Here's your ticket to hell.
00:50:49Bye-bye.
00:50:50See you now.
00:50:51The TD and Riders are brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, the PHBA.
00:50:58Pennsylvania's inaugural yearling show was conducted this past weekend.
00:51:01The grand champion of Philly by McKenzie out of emerald bracelet bred and owned by Tom Coulter's Arrowwood Farm.
00:51:08The reserve champion was a colt named Sir Patrick by Pat on the Back and out of Friday Mass.
00:51:15Sir Patrick bred and owned by E. Marie Morrison.
00:51:19And now, finally, after two weather postponements, the pin mile day is back upon us again, scheduled for this Friday night, June 27th.
00:51:29Four turf steaks carted.
00:51:31Let's cross our fingers that the weather cooperates.
00:51:33Those four races, the $400,000 grade three pin mile, the $150,000 pin oaks, and then those two Pennsylvania bred steaks we've talked about,
00:51:44both $75,000, the alphabet soup and the leaf barred for fillies and mares, both with full fields.
00:51:50For more information on that Pennsylvania breeding program, go to pabread.com or call 610-444-1050.
00:52:01PA Bread, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:52:05It's excitement at every step.
00:52:09Roses for Denver just set a new track record.
00:52:12On average for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year in breeders' awards, restricted races, and owner bonuses.
00:52:21Plus, PA Bread's shine on the world's biggest stage.
00:52:24Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
00:52:27Learn more at pabread.com.
00:52:29With some of the fullest fields in the country, and quality racing year-round,
00:52:35there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:52:41Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:52:50Kentucky Brands.
00:52:52Breed them.
00:52:53Raise them.
00:52:54Race them.
00:52:55We all win.
00:53:00We've talked a lot about Kentucky Breads and all the places they win.
00:53:03They also win at Royal Ascot, which we've seen in the past and we saw again in 2025.
00:53:09Kentucky Bread Crimson Advocate displayed a tremendous turn of foot, winning the Group 2 Duke of Cambridge stakes over a really good field, as always, at Royal Ascot.
00:53:18This was on Wednesday, last Wednesday, June the 18th.
00:53:21It was the second Royal Ascot win for Crimson Advocate, because remember, she also won the Group 2 Queen Mary stakes back in 2023.
00:53:32Crimson Advocate owned by the Emerging Wathman Racing, bred in Kentucky by Whitehall Lane Farm.
00:53:39Kentucky Breads.
00:53:40Buy them.
00:53:41Raise them.
00:53:42Race them.
00:53:43We all win.
00:53:44Well, there's some huge races this weekend at Churchill Downs.
00:53:49It's one of their big days of the year.
00:53:51I believe it's closing weekend before they go off to Ellis Park.
00:53:54And I got to tell you, Stephen Foster, this is becoming one of the best older horse races on the calendar.
00:54:01And, man, did this come up tough this year.
00:54:05A field of seven.
00:54:06Five of them are grade one winners.
00:54:09And one of the ones that is not, ironically, is trained by Wayne Lucas was he was obviously still the trainer of Ashcroft when they made the entry.
00:54:19Ashcroft, I don't think, has much of a chance in here.
00:54:21But five out of seven grade one winners.
00:54:23Who do you like?
00:54:24First Mission, Mindframe, Sierra Leone.
00:54:26I mean, these are the stars of the sport.
00:54:28Mystic Dan, Hitcho.
00:54:30So I'm going to go with First Mission for Brad Cox.
00:54:33He ran that huge 109 buyer in the Oakland Handicap with Pratt aboard.
00:54:38Luis Saez now takes over.
00:54:40Flavien Pratt sticks with Sierra Leone for Chad Brown.
00:54:43I don't read anything into that other than he's become Chad Brown's main guy.
00:54:47So he's not going to get off a horse.
00:54:48He won the Breeders' Cup Classic on no matter what.
00:54:51So Luis Saez will ride First Mission.
00:54:53I think this horse in his third start off the layoff from last year is ready to throw in a big one.
00:54:58But, boy, other than Ashcroft, perhaps Skippy Longstocking usually doesn't come through quite at this level.
00:55:06I think any one of these guys could win it.
00:55:09Yeah, most definitely.
00:55:10And to quote D. Wayne Lucas, he's made a very good living running horses in the wrong spots.
00:55:15I think that was one of his great quotes many, many moons ago.
00:55:19So perhaps divine intervention here with Ashcroft coming in for the coach owned by Deborah Barkley.
00:55:27It's a very good race with lots of horses that have run similar numbers but just need to step up at the right time.
00:55:35Mystic Dan was great in the blame stakes last time out.
00:55:39I thought he looked terrific.
00:55:41He cut the corner.
00:55:42He did what he always did.
00:55:43He's three for four at Churchill Downs.
00:55:46You've got to respect Sierra Leone, who didn't get the pace he needs to run at.
00:55:51At the fairgrounds, just kind of ran it evenly.
00:55:55And he's going to appreciate the stretch out.
00:55:57We are going a mile and a half?
00:55:59Oh, no, we're still going a mile and a half.
00:56:00Sorry.
00:56:01He'll stay at a mile and a half.
00:56:03I actually like Sierra Leone.
00:56:05I don't think Pratt's going to let him fall so far behind, and he's going to be pretty sharp on him.
00:56:11So I'll stick with him, but I certainly could not throw the derby winner out, Mystic Dan.
00:56:17Unbelievable race.
00:56:18The best race for older horses so far this year.
00:56:21And it's probably going to be the best race for older horses until you get to the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:56:25I mean, you've got Hit Show, who's coming off and winning the Dubai World Cup.
00:56:28Mystic Dan, the winner of last year's derby.
00:56:30Sierra Leone, last year's Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:56:34Skippy Longstockings made $3.6 million.
00:56:39Mine Frame, second in the Belmont and Haskell.
00:56:41Last year's won two in a row.
00:56:43And, oh, by the way, first mission just comes off a 109 buyer speed figure winning at Oakland.
00:56:47That is a murderer's row.
00:56:48Then there's Ashcroft.
00:56:50That's a murderer's row right there.
00:56:52I'll take Sierra Leone.
00:56:55I can't really trust, and maybe it's not fair, first mission to come back with another effort like he did in the Oakland Handicap.
00:57:08Mystic, I don't think that if they both give their A performance that Mystic Dan is quite as good as Sierra Leone.
00:57:15Maybe at a mile and an eighth he would be, even though he beat him in the Kentucky Derby.
00:57:18So, yeah, pace, not a ton, not a ton of pace in here, but I think there's enough between Mine Frame and Skippy Longstocking to be an honest pace.
00:57:31First mission probably won't be that far back either.
00:57:33So Sierra Leone will have a little more to run at, maybe, than he did last time out.
00:57:38That was his first start of the year since the Breeders' Cup.
00:57:40So I'll come back with Sierra Leone, but what a race.
00:57:44What a race that is.
00:57:45I just want to make one quick correction.
00:57:47There are only four Grade 1 winners in the race.
00:57:51I said there were five, but as I'm taking a second look at the racing forum, there's only four.
00:57:55But, my goodness, four Grade 1 winners coming together in a race that's not the Breeders' Cup is really something that you don't see anymore these days.
00:58:04All right, so the Fleur de Lis is the return race of Torpedo Anna.
00:58:09We talked earlier on the show to trainer Ken McPeak, and we got his take on how she's doing coming into this big weekend of racing.
00:58:19I'm going to try to beat her in here.
00:58:21She didn't really – she got bumped around on the first turn from the La Troya, but I don't think it was the reason why she ran so poorly.
00:58:29It might have cost her a length or two.
00:58:32She was seven beating eight and a half lengths.
00:58:33And Randy or Zoe, they want to comment on this, you know, sometimes you look at the figures not just to see how fast they are, but more the sheet mentality of what direction they're going in.
00:58:46So, she ran 100 in the Breeders' Cup, this staff, and her three races since then, she hasn't topped to 95.
00:58:54So, it looks to me like as a four-year-old – I mean, this sounds crazy.
00:58:58She won the Apple Blossom in grade one.
00:59:00But it looks to me that she's not quite as fast unless Kenny McPeak's got another notch to throw down and get this horse to another level.
00:59:08I think she's beatable.
00:59:10I'm going to pick Royal Spa.
00:59:13Oof.
00:59:14I mean, I'm just going to throw this out here and say that we're actually recording this before we spoke to Kenny McPeak.
00:59:21So, Kenny said after the last race he couldn't find anything wrong with her.
00:59:27And I'm sure there's nothing wrong with her because he would not be running her if there was.
00:59:31So, if she's as good as he thinks she is, I have to stick with Torpedo Anna.
00:59:36If it's not Torpedo Anna, Tax is a rapidly improving five-year-old mare who's been below the rest of these, and she likes Churchill Downs.
00:59:45She could clunk in for a piece of it.
00:59:47And Jin Jin for Brendan Walsh.
00:59:49She's an up-and-coming four-year-old by Hightail out of a hard-spun mare.
00:59:53You'd never think she'd want the distance, being by the D. Wayne Lucas juvenile sprint winner in Hightail.
01:00:00So, she's definitely worth some consideration.
01:00:02But I'm going to stick with Torpedo Anna.
01:00:04All right.
01:00:05I'll go along with Bill on this one.
01:00:08You know, Royal Spa is steadily improving.
01:00:12She won a race, a stakes, only a grade three, but she won a stakes at Churchill in her last start with a three-wide trip on both turns.
01:00:23I mean, obviously, if we see the same Torpedo Anna, if she runs, if she's back to the level that she was last year in the Breeders' Cup,
01:00:37or maybe even in the Apple Blossom in the Azeri, you know, I think she'll probably win.
01:00:43But you don't like the fact that there was no real excuse for her in the running or physical excuse afterward for her no-show performance in the La Troye Ann.
01:00:56I mean, to me, as a better, that's a red flag.
01:01:01And as a heavy favorite, I don't think you want to take a Philly, even a Philly as good as Torpedo Anna.
01:01:08When they're coming off an effort like that, it can't be explained away.
01:01:13So, just because of that, and because I think Royal Spa is on the upswing and will get a ground-saving trip, I'll take Royal Spa to win it.
01:01:21But if Royal Spa runs her best race and Torpedo Anna runs her best race, I think Bill would agree that it would be no comparison.
01:01:28But you can't count on that.
01:01:31The TDN Writers' Room is also brought to you by First TV.
01:01:34Bob Baffert's speedy Nysos worked five furlongs in a minute and four-fifths on Saturday at Santa Anita.
01:01:41Nysos won the Grade 3 Triple Bend in his last start on May 31st, and this was his first move since that win.
01:01:48His record now is four wins in five starts with one second.
01:01:53That came in the Grade 1 Churchill Down Stakes on Derby Day.
01:01:56Nysos is now pointing to the San Diego at Del Mar on July the 26th.
01:02:02Looks good, doesn't he, guys?
01:02:06Be a smarter better with First TV.
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01:02:53And compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:02:58West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:02:59The gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:03:02Visit westpointtv.com.
01:03:05TDN Writers' Room also brought to you by our good friends at West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:03:09Let's see, Zoe talked about Vava.
01:03:11I talked about Vava, the fastest horse of the week.
01:03:14We can't get enough Vava.
01:03:15West Point Thoroughbreds is also the co-owner of Vava.
01:03:19A grateful co-owner of Vava.
01:03:22Comeback trail's been potent for West Point lately, with Vava scoring her first win of the year on the heels of a successful return.
01:03:28From Cugino, he won a high-class allowance at Aqueduct last Thursday, as well as Pony Express and Final Boss re-emerging during the month of June with promising wins at Santa Anita.
01:03:41We will keep you up to date on all things West Point.
01:03:44But in the meantime, for more information, you can visit www.westpointtv.com.
01:03:50Well, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:03:56I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cadman.
01:03:59Also, our Gainsway guests of the week, Mr. Kenny McPeak.
01:04:02And the people who work behind the scenes, our producers and directors, Katie Petruniak, Sue Finley, Anthony, and Leah LaRocca.
01:04:08Hope you enjoyed this week's podcast.
01:04:10We'll talk to you next week.
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