Kay Bailey Hutchison: 'Europe can count on America, our Congress is overwhelmingly pro-NATO'

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00:00Let's go to Dallas, Texas.

00:01Kay Bailey Hutchinson is former senator from that state

00:06and former U.S. permanent representative to NATO.

00:09Thank you for speaking with us here on France 24.

00:12Thank you, Paul.

00:14Glad to be here.

00:15I wish I had been at the summit.

00:16I love those summits.

00:18You love those summits.

00:19I want to ask you about that in a moment.

00:20But first, what we're just hearing from the mood in Brussels today,

00:24a city you know well,

00:25you know, this question of do you cater to Donald Trump,

00:30as was the case in The Hague,

00:33where they shortened the summit and made sure,

00:37everybody made sure to praise him plentifully,

00:40or do you confront him?

00:42You heard there about how the European leaders

00:44are divided on how to handle the U.S. president at this juncture.

00:47What would your advice to them be?

00:49I think they are handling the president well.

00:56I think that the NATO summit was very successful.

01:00President Trump said that he was moved by what each country said

01:07and how they want the partnership with America.

01:12And I think the shock of the first administration

01:16has now become something where the heads of state

01:20are working with him in a way that both can understand

01:26and both can give and take in a collegial manner.

01:31And I think the Secretary General Rute

01:34certainly has done a great job,

01:37as did Secretary General Stoltenberg,

01:40of bringing the Europeans in

01:43and working with America in a very constructive way.

01:47Some said it was borderline creepy,

01:50the way that Mark Rute referred to him as daddy

01:54in that discussion that they had

01:57about the Iran-Israel crisis.

02:00But again, is that the way to handle Donald Trump?

02:03Make sure you flatter him plentifully.

02:07Well, I think that the daddy thing

02:09was taken a little bit out of context.

02:11He was making a joke

02:13in talking about what they were saying

02:19about, of course, the Iranian-Israeli situation.

02:23And I don't think it was meant to be taken literally in any way.

02:29No, I think Secretary General Rute

02:31and the others now are dealing...

02:36Look, every president has a personality.

02:39We dealt with that at NATO.

02:41There were the ones that were confrontational,

02:45the ones that were behind the scenes,

02:47backstabbing.

02:49I mean, there were different approaches.

02:52And I think the approach of dealing

02:56with all the different personalities

02:57is working better.

03:00And I think that it is clear

03:03that President Trump wants to be the leader of NATO,

03:08wants to be a partner with all of the other countries.

03:11And I think that he's come around on that subject.

03:15And I think it's productive and a good way forward.

03:19You were U.S. ambassador to NATO under Trump's first term.

03:24Back then, some Europeans were still a little bit in denial,

03:27even though Russia had already annexed Crimea

03:31and was supporting an insurgency

03:33in the Donbass region of Ukraine.

03:37Today, there's this general feeling in Europe

03:39that the Russia threat is giving urgency to NATO.

03:43How much can they count on Donald Trump

03:46when he makes statements like,

03:48well, maybe we should bring Vladimir Putin

03:49back into the G7?

03:52Well, I think he hasn't said that lately.

03:56I think that was something in the first term.

03:59He was trying to have a rapprochement

04:01that would have dialogue.

04:05I think the president is more clear-eyed about...

04:06He said it in Canada just last week.

04:09Well, I think he's more clear-eyed about Putin.

04:15I think he said that yesterday.

04:18He said when Putin offered to be the go-between

04:22on Iran and Israel, he said,

04:25hey, why don't we have you be the go-between

04:28on the Ukraine situation?

04:31And I think that was beginning to show

04:34that he's getting weary of Putin's antics.

04:39And I think that is really finally coming about.

04:45And I think it is good.

04:46I think we should absolutely stick with Ukraine.

04:51We have said we would.

04:52We have commitments there.

04:55And I can't say for sure exactly

04:58how that's going to play out.

05:00But I don't think the Europeans should be nervous.

05:03I think the fact that the president

05:05is asking for Europe to stand up more,

05:08looking at all of the range of problems

05:13that we have throughout the world,

05:15the global adversaries that we all are unified

05:19in suggesting,

05:22I think means that he wants partners

05:25who are helping,

05:27who are working with America.

05:30We are interoperable.

05:31I think that's very important.

05:34And I think the new,

05:36what I see way forward for NATO

05:39is that the interoperability

05:41is going to be much more pronounced.

05:44And I think Europe can count on America.

05:46And let me make one other point.

05:48Our Congress is overwhelmingly pro-NATO

05:53and looking for Russian sanctions.

05:5582 senators out of 100 have signed a bill

06:00to put secondary sanctions on Russia

06:03so that we can show Putin

06:07that we are supportive of Ukraine

06:10and we are supportive of NATO.

06:13But what about in his inner circle?

06:14I asked the question because we saw last week

06:17with the Iran strikes

06:18that there were divisions laid bare

06:21between those like yourself

06:23who take a more traditional approach

06:26to how U.S. projects power in the world

06:28and those who are more isolationist,

06:30the more far-right MAGA crowd.

06:33What conclusions will Donald Trump draw

06:36from the internal divisions

06:39that played out in public last week?

06:42Well, let me say that,

06:45as I mentioned,

06:47Congress is overwhelmingly

06:49of the pro-NATO,

06:52pro-Alliance foreign policy.

06:56But also in his inner circle,

06:58you did see divisions

07:00on the situation with Iran.

07:02You saw some of the MAGA-type voices

07:08saying, no, don't go there.

07:11And overwhelmingly,

07:13he went the other way.

07:15He went with the approach

07:17that has been the approach.

07:19The dealing with Iran

07:21has been 40 years in the making,

07:24at least the last 20,

07:25very active on the military side.

07:28And he came down

07:30on what I consider to be the right side,

07:33which is not taking a chance

07:35that an Iran with nuclear power

07:39could ever come to haunt us

07:42or Europe

07:43or our Asian Pacific partners.

07:45And so we,

07:48I think,

07:48came down,

07:49he came down

07:50to the right conclusion.

07:52And though his base,

07:54as you said,

07:54the people who surround him

07:56were divided,

07:57he took the advice

07:58of those that said

08:00this is the right thing to do.

08:01And I think

08:02that the vast majority

08:04of Americans

08:06and Congress

08:07believe that was

08:08the right stand to take.

08:10and it shows

08:11that he will take

08:12a bold position

08:14in defense

08:16of our security umbrella,

08:19which is NATO,

08:21as well as our

08:22Asia-Pacific partners.

08:23So I think

08:24he came to the right conclusion,

08:26even though,

08:27as you said,

08:28his inner circle

08:28was divided.

08:30Let me ask you

08:31about what the view

08:32is from Texas,

08:33because you're a state

08:34that captures

08:36the imagination

08:37of the world.

08:39It's a big tourist destination.

08:41And we're seeing

08:42fewer Europeans

08:43who want to travel

08:44to the U.S. this summer.

08:46They see

08:46the crackdowns of ice.

08:48They saw

08:49what they perceive

08:51as the ambush

08:51of Volodymyr Zelensky

08:52in the Oval Office

08:53back in February.

08:55How's that impacting Texas?

08:59I think Texas,

09:01as you said,

09:02is looked at

09:03in a unique way.

09:06We are a

09:07can-do,

09:08cowboy kind of mentality.

09:11We go for the skies.

09:14Very bold.

09:16And I think,

09:17I don't think

09:18we're hurting

09:18for tourism.

09:20I think that people

09:21loved the TV show

09:24Dallas.

09:24When I go to Europe

09:26or to Asia,

09:28they say,

09:29oh, did you know J.R.?

09:31And I think,

09:32oh, my gosh,

09:33you know,

09:33everyone thinks

09:34we're Dallas.

09:35But we do have

09:36the kind of cowboy flavor.

09:39And we are

09:40a state that fought

09:41for our independence

09:42and then became

09:43became a nation

09:45and then came in

09:46to the United States

09:48under a treaty.

09:48So we have

09:50our sort of

09:51can-do,

09:53we can-do-it-

09:54whatever-it-is

09:55mentality.

09:56And I don't think

09:58we're hurting

09:58for tourism.

09:59And I don't think

10:00any tourist

10:01should worry

10:02about ICE.

10:03ICE is trying

10:05to protect

10:06the security

10:07of everyone,

10:08including our visitors,

10:10but not our

10:11illegal entrants.

10:12One final question

10:13for you.

10:14When you see,

10:15on the one hand,

10:15we talked about

10:16this MAGA movement.

10:19On the other hand,

10:20we just had an election

10:21in New York City

10:22where it's

10:24a self-described

10:25Democratic Socialist

10:26who won the primary

10:28for the Democrats.

10:29The politics

10:30seem to be getting

10:31more polarized

10:32than ever.

10:33Is there still room

10:34for the middle ground

10:35in America?

10:38That's a very valid question.

10:40And I think

10:41the answer is yes.

10:43And I think

10:44as you saw

10:46play out

10:47the foreign policy

10:50and the Iranian issue,

10:52I think the mainstream

10:53is the majority.

10:57And I think

10:57that the polarization

10:59is there.

11:00It's there in Europe.

11:02It's there in America.

11:03But I think

11:05the middle

11:05is winning.

11:07And I think

11:08that mainstream America

11:09is still mainstream America.

11:11And I think

11:12it is the majority.

11:14And I believe

11:15that

11:15while

11:17you see

11:18different things

11:19happening

11:20that are very vocal,

11:21you see all of the protests

11:23and people

11:24carrying foreign flags,

11:26it's disquieting

11:27to most Americans.

11:29And I think

11:30that

11:30I think we will

11:32get through this.

11:33But I will say

11:34for sure

11:35that tourism

11:36is safe

11:37because

11:37we are enforcing

11:39the

11:40laws of illegal

11:41immigration.

11:43And

11:43we have

11:44a long way

11:45to go

11:45because there

11:46has been

11:47such a flood

11:48of illegal

11:50immigration.

11:50And we're

11:51trying to

11:51work

11:53on the criminal

11:54element

11:55to keep

11:56our country

11:56safer.

11:57And I think

11:58now they are

12:00looking at

12:01potential

12:02terrorists

12:04that have not

12:04been vetted,

12:06potential

12:06countries that

12:08have terrorism

12:09backgrounds.

12:10So I think

12:12I think

12:13I'm positive

12:14about America

12:16coming back

12:17to

12:17what we have

12:19been in the past

12:20and that is

12:21the leader

12:21of the free world

12:22and also

12:23a country

12:24that wants

12:26to work

12:27with our allies

12:27will be supportive

12:28of our allies.

12:30I think the president

12:30reaffirmed that.

12:32So

12:33I'm optimistic

12:34but I think

12:35it was a fair question.

12:37Kay Bailey Hutchinson,

12:38many thanks for being

12:39with us from Dallas, Texas.

12:41Oh, thank you

12:42for asking me.

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