'Moscow not interested at all in peace': Their conditions are designed to 'manipulate the US admin'

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00:00We're going to talk a bit more about this now with an expert in international relations,

00:04Elizabeth Shepard Salam.

00:06Thanks for taking the time to speak to us.

00:07Now, as we just heard there, France and the U.K. say they are ready to send ground forces

00:11to assure lasting peace in Ukraine, but the European countries do vary greatly on the

00:15different kinds of guarantees that they're each willing to offer.

00:19What kind of guarantees are we talking about from which countries and who's the most reticent?

00:26So remember that when we're talking about European countries here, we're not just talking

00:30about the European Union, obviously, since we are talking about the U.K.

00:34What we saw, for example, in terms of France yesterday in Macron's speech, was talking

00:39about notably not on the front lines, which I think is what most of the Europeans are

00:45talking about.

00:46But in the case of France, for example, protecting certain cities and certain critical infrastructures.

00:52I think he spoke about electricity, for example, and others.

00:57So there are a couple of sort of caveats.

00:58One, obviously, not everyone is willing to contribute or doesn't want to contribute in

01:02the same way.

01:03We see this Franco-British axis being very important, but we do see more reticence, let's

01:08say, from the Germans and then from those neighbors of the EU that are much further

01:14away that see less of an interest in investing in and contributing to a coalition.

01:19It is notable, of course, to say also that even with France, who is willing to invest

01:25in humans and soldiers and in military, that they were very clear to say that it wouldn't

01:32be on the front lines so that at least theoretically we're not talking about direct confrontation

01:37about the Russian, with the Russians, unless, of course, the Russians decide to bomb beyond

01:44the border.

01:45We're also talking, obviously, about something he said, not peacekeepers in the traditional

01:51format, meaning it won't be, again, on the front line, but it will require some sort

01:56of signed peace deal, which is perhaps the most difficult part of this entire deal.

02:02So what are your thoughts?

02:03Do you believe it is absolutely necessary to get some kind of boots on the ground in

02:07Ukraine to make sure that the ceasefire holds?

02:10I do think that there have to be boots on the ground to make sure that the ceasefire

02:14holds and to clearly show Europe's intentions towards Russia, which I think is the other

02:22objective of these troops, to show that if they go any further, including to those countries

02:26that are part of the European Union or NATO, that they will find resistance.

02:31So I think that it's both dissuasion as well as a necessary part of the ceasefire deal.

02:38But of course, that does require a ceasefire deal.

02:41It certainly does.

02:42And of course, the U.S. and Europe have very different approaches to Russia.

02:46For example, how has Europe reacted to this U.S. brokered agreement with Russia that that

02:51would in theory see a cessation of hostilities in the Black Sea?

02:55I think the European view and the view of many is that the United States is basically

03:00caving into the Russians because that's what it is.

03:04And the Russians have said that basically this deal would happen only if sanctions are

03:10removed on Russia.

03:12And we see very clearly that it's in their interests.

03:15But we don't see necessarily a lot of anything in the Ukrainians' interest.

03:20So it's a very biased deal.

03:21And I think that that's what we're hearing most in Europe compared to the United States.

03:26Now we are hearing that Emmanuel Macron, the French president, actually spoke to Donald

03:29Trump earlier today before that summit began.

03:32I mean, what does that say about Europe's need, if you like, to get America's approval

03:37before it moves forward?

03:39Well, I think that whether we like it or not, Trump and Putin have excluded up to this point

03:46to a very large extent Europe from the negotiations and even to a certain extent Ukraine.

03:52But at the same time, the Americans have asked the Europeans on a number of occasions or

03:58said that the Europeans are going to have to take part in, whether it be the president

04:02Trump or Marco Rubio, we've heard various versions of that.

04:07So it does need to be a discussion, a multipartite discussion.

04:13And I think that that's what we're seeing today as well.

04:15Of course, another big question in all of this is Russia and its thinking.

04:20It could be merely using these negotiations as a sort of stalling tactic just to get more

04:25concessions from the U.S., for example, while continuing its military campaign.

04:29I mean, I guess the question is, is Moscow genuinely interested in peace or just dragging

04:35things out so it can pursue its ultimate goal?

04:37No, I think Moscow is not at all interested in peace.

04:40I think we see all of the conditions that they continually make, trying to manipulate

04:46in many ways the American administration, who seems to be more than willing to cave

04:50into a certain number of their demands.

04:53That's why I think our president here in France has tried at the very least to be fairly strong

04:58and to lead the Europeans into showing that it's not only about what the Russians need,

05:03but what Ukraine and what Europe needs is guarantees to security for Ukraine first,

05:08and later for Europe more generally, which is the next worry when it comes to Russian

05:15influence and Russian aggression.

05:17Elizabeth, thanks for sharing your expertise with us.

05:19Elizabeth Shepard Salem, thank you.

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