'Not just a strategic partner: Europe needs a Turkey that upholds democracy, honors its commitments'

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00:00Well, for more on the latest developments, then, Ayesha Yurekla joins us on the program today.

00:04She's a senior policy advisor in EU affairs, civil society representative, and a non-resident

00:09fellow at the Istanbul Institute. Thank you very much for joining us today, Ayesha. So,

00:15Imamoglu is, of course, facing several court cases today alone. Can you just tell us more

00:20about them and how they compare to the other cases in terms of some of the potential consequences

00:24for his political career?

00:30I think you have the wrong image.

00:34Can you hear us now?

00:37I can hear you, but I guess you have the wrong image of somebody else on the screen.

00:43As long as you can hear us now, that's great. Can you tell us?

00:47Yes, perfect.

00:48Great. Can you tell us more about some of the cases that—the case that Imamoglu appeared in today

00:53and how it compares to some of the other cases in terms of political consequences for his career?

00:58Okay, certainly. First and foremost, Ekrem İmamoğlu is a key figure of opposition.

01:06He is a beacon of hope and widely seen as a symbol for change and praised for his widespread popularity.

01:15Especially his victory in 2019 has been a significant milestone, given Istanbul's prominence as

01:23Turkey's largest city, an economic hub. And there are many ongoing cases against Ekrem İmamoğlu.

01:32Today, this morning, the one that has been postponed, as you have just reported, is actually related

01:42to the Istanbul's chief prosecutor, Akın Gürlek, and the insulting language that he used against him,

01:59and also the indictments to exert pressure on the judiciary, using his role as a mayor.

02:10And certainly, these are important issues. And obviously, there are also other ongoing cases

02:26which involve fraud and others bribe and unlawfully recording personal data, rigging tender, etc.

02:38But all these issues actually remain allegations. And at least the opposition claims that these allegations

02:50have a very thin background and supporting documents. And unfortunately, the situation is widely viewed

03:01domestically and also by international observers as highly politically motivated against the most prominent

03:10opposition figure in Turkey, who has a real opportunity, actually, to run as a presidential candidate

03:20against President Erdoğan, who has been running the country.

03:23Sorry to interrupt you, but I mean, you said that these are just accusations. I mean, there are trials

03:31that are going to take place. So, do you think that it's a stretch to say, based on the different

03:36cases that İmamoğlu is facing, that Turkey is sliding into authoritarianism?

03:41It is difficult to say that. But obviously, there are signs, intimidating signs, and also what is called

03:56that a competitive authoritarianism that is currently the case for Turkey. A lot of political scientists also

04:06are trying to claim and give us hints about that. But the government is saying certainly that it's a

04:17delicate matter. And certainly, Turkey should uphold its international obligations when it comes to democracy

04:26and rule of law. And, but these are also, this is a developing story and ongoing cases, actually, legal processes

04:35that are ongoing. So, from a European point of view, I believe, and from an analyst point of view, it's also

04:43important to underline that certainly the opposition has very strong arguments. And thousands or even millions

04:53of people in Turkey went to streets and these last three weeks have been very turbulent for Turkish society.

05:04Especially younger generations are against authoritarianism or against tilting towards autocracy.

05:12They are very vocal. They are on streets. They are protesting. These are all important indications.

05:18But we should also not forget that as the Europeans, at least, we need to strike a balance. It's a delicate

05:28matter. It's an ongoing matter. And the EU has this wait-and-see approach also about the ongoing situation.

05:36Now, speaking of the EU's wait-and-see approach, Aisha, I mean, how do you think that the evolution of

05:42Erdogan's rule has impacted Turkey's EU accession process? Do you think that Erdogan,

05:48that it's still a priority even for him to join the European Union?

05:55At least in verbal terms, yes, he and also his political party confirms and states and restates

06:05actually on multiple occasions that the EU full membership remains as a strategic target,

06:12a strategic goal for Turkey. But saying this is one thing and doing other things is another thing.

06:21And it's very important also to see the situation, to view the situation.

06:27I am based in Brussels and I speak also a lot with EU officials here and try to understand their point of

06:35view. And what they want to see is not just words, but also implementation on the ground in cases like,

06:43for example, in this particular case with Imamoglu, where freedom of assembly, freedom of expression,

06:51rule of law, democracy standards are upheld because they are European values and

06:57they are non-negotiable values. And there is no pick and choose when it comes to full membership.

07:06And maybe in that respect, I can also quote President Macron, because he has made a very balanced,

07:16actually, remark on the ongoing situation. And he said, Turkey needs Europe and Europe needs Turkey.

07:27There is this mutuality, but at the same time, Europe needs a Turkey that upholds democracy

07:34and honors its commitments. And not just a strategic partner, but also a democratic one.

07:41And I think this is an important argument. And Turkish authorities must be aware of this,

07:49that there are high level of doubts when it comes to democracy and rule of law in Turkey.

07:57And certainly the opposition also makes a lot of effort to explain this to the international counterparts.

08:06AMY GOODMAN I'm so sorry to cut you off again, but unfortunately,

08:11that's all we have time for. Thank you very much for your time and coming on the show today.

08:15AMY GOODMAN You're welcome.

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