Far right normalised: Populist parties becoming stronger with strong headwind by mainstream parties

FRANCE 24 English

Visit our website: http://www.france24.com  Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English  Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/France24_en

Transcript

00:00Tens of thousands of people took to the streets of Germany's capital on Sunday.

00:04Demonstrators were out in force to rally against the far-right AFD.

00:08The gathering against the Alternative for Germany comes ahead of legislative elections.

00:12It also comes days after the head of the Christian Democrats broke a long-held taboo in the country

00:18and joined forces with the AFD to push through an anti-immigration bill.

00:21Chanting We are the Firewall and holding slogans like Shame on you CDU,

00:30at least 160,000 people took to the streets of Berlin on Sunday,

00:35protesting the conservative party's collaboration with the far-right.

00:41I think we should move away from the right again.

00:44The protests continued until dusk.

00:47We see examples all over the world of conservative parties that are slipping,

00:50that want to please the radical right instead of standing up for their democratic foundations.

00:54And we fear that we are currently seeing this happening in the CDU in Germany.

00:57This is a huge danger.

01:02Tensions started brewing last week when the leader of the CDU party, Friedrich Merz,

01:07tried to push an anti-immigration motion in the Bundestag

01:11with the help of votes from the far-right AFD party.

01:15Although rejected on Friday,

01:17the joint vote shattered post-war Germany's unwritten rule of never cooperating with the far-right.

01:24At an election rally on Sunday, Merz addressed the protests.

01:29Demonstrating is the right of every citizen in our country.

01:33The right to demonstrate is one of the fundamental rights of our constitution.

01:36However, this does not include acts of violence, neither against people nor against property.

01:42The conservative leader is the front-runner in Germany's upcoming federal election,

01:47polling at 30 percent, followed by the AFD with around 20 percent.

01:53Merz has promised to go all-in on immigration.

01:56But analysts say that flirting with the far-right

02:00could alienate Merz from his more moderate political base.

02:05We can now bring in Armin Steinbeck, Jean Monnet Professor of Law and Economics at HEC University

02:11in Paris. Thank you so much for joining us here on the program today.

02:14Now, the AFD is poised to get around 20 percent of the vote in the upcoming elections in Germany.

02:21I know that given Germany's past, it's understandable

02:24why people were out on the streets in protest in Berlin last night.

02:27But how long can this taboo of not getting into the bed with the AFD go on for?

02:33Given that they're so popular?

02:36We are definitely in a crucial situation, in a highly polarized situation.

02:41Everybody in the society, if you look at the polls, thinks that there must be a turnaround

02:46policy on asylum policies, but nobody really wants the mainstream parties to collaborate with them.

02:52So on the one side, action must be taken on a topic, on a policy field,

02:57which is the topic for the populist parties.

03:02But on the other side, nobody wants to collaborate. So it's really a dilemma.

03:05So is this why the CDU and the CSU have vowed to crack down on irregular migrants?

03:12Are they being pragmatic by making the issue that is the rallying cry for the AFD their own issue?

03:19We should not forget that we are three weeks before a snap election.

03:23So every party tries to distinguish itself from the other political opponents.

03:28And the way chosen by the CDU, by its leader, Friedrich Merz, is to demonstrate action and to

03:34signal to the citizens that he gives a guarantee on a turnaround on asylum policy.

03:40And that's why this degree of polarization that we see at the very moment.

03:45Elon Musk has come out in strong support of the AFD.

03:49How dangerous is this?

03:52This is very dangerous.

03:53This has been seen very skeptical by the mainstream party.

03:56Obviously, it gives a huge boost to the AFD, which now feels to be acknowledged by the US,

04:03by the richest men of the world.

04:05But many other parties in Germany see this as a clear interference,

04:08an interference of the richest men in the world with democracy in other countries.

04:13So there's a high degree of resistance to Elon Musk.

04:16Olaf Scholz has floated the possibility that the CDU could join forces with the AFD in the

04:22aftermath of the election and govern that way.

04:25Do you think that's a possibility?

04:26Or as he says, he's just calling out, you know, just worrying essentially the country?

04:34At this point, I don't think that is a likely event that would occur after the election.

04:39What the CDU has been doing, they have this soft collaboration with the decisions last

04:44week taken in the parliament being supported by the AFD, but clearly not officially collaborating

04:52with them.

04:53So everybody in the CDU explicitly rules out that there would be any coalition

04:59or formal agreement with the AFD.

05:01I think at this point, this is a credible statement.

05:04Here in France, for instance, we have, as you know, the far right,

05:08National Rally Party.

05:09They're not in government, yet they need to support the government.

05:15They need to prop up the government in some way.

05:17We have potentially a motion of no confidence if the far right votes for it, they can have

05:24the power to bring down this government.

05:26Do you think that the AFD is going to have that power in the future in Germany, that

05:32level of power?

05:34In Germany, there is no such motion of no confidence like in France.

05:38In Germany, in order to launch a motion of no confidence, you must constructively propose

05:43a replacement of the government.

05:45So it's much more difficult in Germany to bring a motion of no confidence.

05:49However, there is clearly a parallel.

05:52The firewall that is discussed in Germany against the AFD is a kind of the Republican

05:56front that is discussed in France against the Rassemblement National.

06:00And you see the normalization strategy both pursued by the Rassemblement National as well

06:06as the AFD.

06:07So you see clearly the populist parties becoming stronger with a strong headwind by the mainstream

06:13parties.

06:14Okay, I'm going to leave it at that.

06:15Thank you so much for joining us on the program today.

06:17You're welcome.

Category

Transcript

Recommended