00:00This is apropos. Well, the state visit is mixing royal pageantry with tough political talks, particularly on defence and migration.
00:11The French president is vowing to work towards tangible results to curb cross-channel irregular migration ahead of a summit where the issue is set to feature prominently.
00:21Emmanuel Macron was speaking during an address to the British Parliament on the first day of his three-day visit to the UK.
00:27With the latest, here's Morgan Eyre.
00:30Britain's parliamentarians were on their feet for French President Emmanuel Macron.
00:38He delivered a wide-ranging speech from the war in Ukraine and protecting Europe from disinformation to the future of the Middle East.
00:45But one of the thorniest issues between the UK and France remains illegal migration across the channel and how to reduce the number of small boats crossing.
00:55Macron stressed cooperation, saying that it was important to work together.
00:59We cannot allow our country's rules for taking in people to be flouted and criminal networks to cynically exploit the hopes of so many individuals with so little respect for human life.
01:12France and the United Kingdom have a shared responsibility to address irregular migration with humanity, solidarity and firmness.
01:21But now the real work begins.
01:25Macron will be having a bilateral meeting with British Prime Minister Keir Starmer and migration will feature high on the agenda.
01:31French police are taking a tougher approach to reducing the number of migrants, such as slashing the inflatable boats.
01:37But the UK leader is pressing for a one-in, one-out deal.
01:42This deterrent would allow Britain to send migrants who have crossed the channel illegally back to France.
01:47In return, the UK would accept asylum seekers with a connection to Britain.
01:52However, France's president could face pushback from other EU members, particularly those next to the Mediterranean Sea.
01:59Those countries fear they may be forced to absorb extra asylum seekers.
02:04In his speech, the French leader added it was part of a wider problem.
02:08And we will only arrive at a lasting and effective solution with, as well, the action at the European level and the cooperation, especially of the countries of the first century, on the European soil.
02:19Macron's three-day stay is the first state visit to the UK by a European Union head of state since Brexit.
02:27And both countries will be keen to reset relations.
02:32For more on what's at stake, we're joined by Carmen Conte, Senior Legal Policy Analyst at the Migration Policy Group.
02:39Thanks so much for being with us on the programme this evening.
02:43There have been seemingly months of negotiations between London and Paris on this thorny issue of migration.
02:51Carmine Starmer, the British Prime Minister, attempting apparently to secure what would be called a one-in, one-out agreement with France.
02:59How would such a deal actually work in practice?
03:05Good evening, everyone.
03:06This sounds like an important agreement on migration that seems like a win-win for France and the UK.
03:16But who is losing here?
03:19It's really, I would say, humanity, because this is really an agreement that goes at the expenses of migrants.
03:27Two main points have been achieved during this negotiation.
03:32On one side, the French police would be allowed to intervene in shallow waters up to 300 metres from the coast to intercept small boats with migrants.
03:47And another point that also you mentioned is the one-in, one-out agreement, according to which the UK will be able to return small boats with migrants to France.
04:03And in exchange, we'll take asylum seekers that have strong family ties in the UK.
04:12And how complicated would it be to put such policy in place in practice, both legally and operationally, Carmine, because some officials in the UK are warning that it could lead to a surge in crossings ahead of the implementation of any such deal?
04:33Well, indeed, the implementation will be a problem.
04:38This is really a short fix to the main problem, but it's not a long-term solution.
04:46It's a short-term deterrence to migration.
04:50But this agreement doesn't really address the roots of the problem, that are the lack of real pathway, legal and safe pathway, for migrants to get to the UK, but also in general to Europe.
05:09This means that we will have the risk that migrants will have to even take even more dangerous routes to go to the UK.
05:21And we know that this year many people actually already died in the in the channel.
05:27So this agreement also risk that this number will actually increase in the next years.
05:34And if such an agreement is reached, Carmine, over the next couple of days, some southern European countries, they're already expressing concern about the possibility that France might end up sending asylum seekers who are returned by the UK back to wherever they entered the EU.
05:53And that would be these countries on bordering the Mediterranean.
05:57Yes, that's another effect of this agreement that is going to have a detrimental impact, actually, on southern European countries, because actually the migrants that will be returned to France from the UK will be sent back, actually, to Spain, Italy or other southern European countries.
06:22Because there is the rule in which the first country of entry is the country responsible for processing an asylum application.
06:32So as we know, migrants come first to southern Europe and then try to get their way to the UK through France.
06:42But France is not legally responsible, you know, for taking their application.
06:46So this agreement will actually will be very balanced for southern European countries that are really at the front line of the European migration flows.
06:58Yeah. And let's speak a little bit about that, because Libya has also today unveiled a plan to reduce migrant flows to the EU, separate to what's happening in the UK this week.
07:08But the bloc's willingness to assist Libyan authorities and their crackdown on migrants, that's also been strongly criticised by human rights groups.
07:18How problematic is that for you?
07:19It's problematic. There are many reports, evidences from NGOs, researchers, that the Libyan authorities, the Coast Guards, have perpetrated serious criminal offences and human rights violations towards migrants.
07:43To not talk about the conditions that migrants have to face in detention centres in Libya, where they are stuck for years and they are tortured and really where dignity is really undermined every day.
08:00So it's very controversial to try to also get an agreement with Libya, actually as a partner on migration.
08:10What Europe is really showing here, is that Europe is really showing here a very hostile, let's say a punitive approach towards migrants.
08:20We should instead have a more welcoming approach to try to instead provide some alternatives for migrants to come here in a safer way.
08:29Because now the only way for migrants is to resort to smugglers to come to Europe and take very dangerous trips through the Mediterranean or through the Channel.
08:39So we should try to invest more human corridors in sponsorship programmes, humanitarian visas that seem more safe and legal ways for migrants to come here.
08:52And Carmen, the European Union also seems to be softening its stance when it comes to third country processing.
08:57Italy is already doing this with Albania, but what kind of legal pitfalls would these so-called return hubs face if they were to be introduced on a more widespread basis?
09:09Yeah, the return hubs is one of the main controversial points of the return regulation that has been proposed by the Commission this year and gives the legal basis for member states to establish these return hubs.
09:25But it's not actually clear what these return hubs are and what kind of procedures and policies will be implemented in these return hubs.
09:37It seems that we are going towards an externalisation of asylum and return policies in third countries.
09:44And this raises concern because we don't know in these third countries which kind of safeguards, which kind of legal procedures, which kind of level of protection of human rights will take place.
09:56And so this is kind of controversial because we must ensure that people have a fair access to the right to asylum procedures.
10:08And also in case of return procedures, we have to make sure that also the people that are returned to their country of origin still experience a fair return procedures.
10:18And this can be undermined in the framework of externalising return procedures to their country where we don't know what actually is happening there.
10:34And also financially, in terms of the impact on the economy of the European Union,
10:45these procedures are very expensive and costly.
10:49And so we will have to assess and monitor in the long term how these procedures will be implemented
10:56and what kind of also the financial impact will have on the member states.
11:00And Carmen, if a deal is reached, let's say, between Paris and London this week,
11:05do you think that that could become a pilot for the rest of Europe, as the British government is already suggesting?
11:11There is the risk that this pilot project will also be applied by other member states.
11:22I will not be surprised because this is the trend across Europe now to really push for more returns,
11:33to really curb on irregular migration, but without really establishing a safe and legal pathway for migrants to come to Europe.
11:45And also this is a bit worrying that now there are all single member states that are trying to make agreements with their countries,
11:53also with the UK on migration.
11:56Instead, we should have a European common asylum system in place.
12:00You know, immigration is a common shared policy, it's a European level.
12:04Instead, we are seeing that member states are really living on their own on this topic.
12:12Instead, we should have, and this showing that the asylum system now is really failing.
12:17Instead, we should invest more on a better and fair asylum system for all the European Union.
12:23Carmin Conte, Legal Policy Analyst at the Migration Policy Group, thanks so much for joining us on the programme this evening.
12:32Thank you for inviting me.
12:33That's it from us for now. Do stay with us, though, for more world news here on France 24.
