'And so it goes': Macron attempts to re-center govt, albeit 'in a fairly hamfisted, very clumsy way'

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00:00I'm going to begin the program here in France where President Emmanuel Macron is continuing

00:11his hunt for a new Prime Minister today.

00:13He's set to hold talks with leaders from his own centrist bloc as well as the Socialist

00:18Party and the right-wing Republicans.

00:21Finding Michel Barnier's replacement is a task that the French President said Thursday

00:25would be completed in the coming days.

00:27In a defiant televised address, Macron roared out stepping down, despite growing calls from

00:32opposition leaders for him to do so, blaming the fall of Barnier's government on quote

00:37anti-Republican politicians.

00:39Emily Boyle has more on that speech.

00:45In his first allocution since the fall of his government on Wednesday, Macron announced

00:49he would be naming a Prime Minister in the next few days.

00:55In the next few days I will appoint a Prime Minister.

00:58I will instruct him to form a government of general interest representing all the political

01:02forces of a government that can participate in it, or at least undertake not to censor

01:07it.

01:08Michel Barnier was forced to hand in his resignation and that of his government after the motion

01:12of no confidence passed by 331 votes.

01:16Barnier had been in the role three months, the shortest tenure of any Prime Minister

01:20in modern French history.

01:22The President, who looked significantly weaker after the motion of no confidence, came out

01:27defiant.

01:28He assured his critics he would not be stepping down.

01:32The mandate that you democratically gave me is a mandate of five years and I will remain

01:38in office until the end of that term.

01:41Macron lashed out at what he called an anti-Republican front which was not working in the interests

01:46of the French people.

01:48I will never assume the irresponsibility of others, especially of members of Parliament

01:53who choose to bring down France's budget and government only a few days before the Christmas

01:58holidays.

01:59Macron now faces a difficult task to come up with a Prime Minister capable of leading

02:04a minority government in a Parliament where no party holds a majority.

02:09The President said that the first priority for this new Prime Minister will be to come

02:13up with a budget in January.

02:15For the time being, the 2024 budget will roll over to next year.

02:19We're going to talk more about the political turmoil here in France and speak to Paul Smith

02:26who is an Associate Professor in French and Francophone Studies at the University of Nottingham.

02:31Great to have you Paul.

02:32So Macron has hinted a little bit at taking responsibility for what's happened but he's

02:36mostly blamed the fall of Michel Barnier's government on this so-called anti-Republican

02:41front.

02:43Is that really the case?

02:44Should Macron be taking more blame here?

02:47I think he's assuming, as he said, he takes blame for the original mistake or what he

02:53said last night was that people hadn't understood his dissolution back in June.

02:58I'm not sure I understand it still to this day.

03:02Why would the French have to understand his thought behind that?

03:05But I think that that's really his attempt to re-centre in a fairly ham-fisted way, I

03:13have to say, a very clumsy way, trying to re-centre the government and open negotiations

03:19with the centre-left.

03:21Whether they respond positively or not, we'll see this morning when their leaders go to

03:25meet with Macron at the Elysee.

03:27But I actually thought the speech itself, the tenor of the speech, was not a good one

03:31and was quite glad it only lasted 10 minutes because he just felt that he was going to

03:35keep digging a hole for himself.

03:38Macron also very much ruled out the idea of him stepping down despite the mounting

03:44pressure on him to do so.

03:46He says he's going to stay on until 2027.

03:49Do you think he should step down?

03:50No, I don't.

03:52I don't see any reason constitutionally for that to happen and that would just create,

03:55if he did step down, it would create an even bigger crisis.

03:59There are only two parties in France that would be ready for a presidential election

04:03and that would be La France Insoumise and the National Rally.

04:07The other parties are absolutely not prepared and that really would be, he talked about

04:12this anti-Republican front, meaning La France Insoumise on one side and the National Rally

04:17on the other, that would absolutely be handing things over to them, the prospect of a presidential

04:24election at this point, irrespective of what the opinion polls are telling us, would be

04:29absolutely catastrophic for France.

04:31And Paul, you mentioned there that Macron is going to be continuing talks with political

04:35leaders today.

04:37It's aimed at forging an agreement on finding some sort of new prime minister to take over

04:42from Barnier.

04:43How do you think the talks will go?

04:45Will they be able to find a consensus?

04:48It's really very difficult because you've got to find, first of all, you have to find

04:52a candidate that can reach across the divide.

04:54That's the really big problem at the moment.

04:57There are one or two names that have been circulating, but it's very difficult to see

05:01somebody, let's say on the centre-right, who could reach across to the left.

05:05There might be some centre-left candidates who might be willing to reach across to the

05:10right.

05:11One, I suppose, encouraging thing is that Laurent Wauquiez, the leader of Les Républicains

05:16in the National Assembly, has said that he will not, his group will not censure another

05:21government.

05:22They're kind of, they're using this whole idea of the motion of no confidence as a kind

05:25of a bar, if you like, a benchmark.

05:30But at the moment, the speech last night was not really meant, I don't think, to placate

05:38the centre-left.

05:39So it's very difficult to see exactly who would be the kind of, people have used the

05:43idea of the National Union government sort of sitting in the middle of French politics.

05:47It's difficult to see at this moment in time who would lead that.

05:50So there are no names, you know, there have been some names that have been floating around,

05:55but do you have any names that you would think perhaps could take over?

06:00Yeah, the defence minister, Sébastien Le Corneuil, has been mentioned, but the problem

06:04there is that he's being mentioned because he has the favour of the National Rally.

06:09Well, the problem with governing with the kind of tacit agreement of the National Rally

06:15of Le Pen and company is that, you know, it's like Aesop's fable of the scorpion and the

06:20frog.

06:21The scorpion in the end will sting the frog and drown with the frog when you cross the

06:24river because that's in its nature.

06:26It needs to be somebody who is much more in the centre and has a reputation, who has

06:32a good reputation with the parties of the left who might reach out and bring on board,

06:38if it's at all possible, the socialists or at least, I mean, as Emily said and as Macron

06:46himself said, at least parties that won't automatically push the censure button, because

06:51otherwise we just get into a continual kind of spiral of governments appointed and then,

06:57you know, votes of no confidence and so it goes.

07:02And away from the candidates that could possibly take over from Barnier, Macron also in that

07:07speech yesterday mentioned this special law that will be tabled to Parliament this month,

07:12that in order to allow public services to continue without a working budget.

07:19Give us a sense of what kind of impact you think this new law will have.

07:23Well, this new law will indeed, will simply sort of tide France over.

07:29In fact, it's possible for Parliament, once there is a government in place, it's possible

07:35to, first of all, to have this special law that will tide us over, will tide the French

07:41over.

07:42But then actually Parliament has until June to put in place a permanent budget for 2025.

07:47I mean, it's not a, you know, these, although these things have never happened or haven't

07:50happened in the recent past, the French system is prepared for it.

07:54So there'll be a special law which can be as temporary or as long lasting as it needs

07:59to be to cover the period.

08:01And then come the new year, come January and afterwards, then a new bill could be brought

08:08by a new government and that would kind of set things up.

08:11So although we're carrying forward the tax criteria, the pensions criteria that we had

08:17for 2024, and some people will win, some people will lose.

08:21And because, you know, there are aspects of what the Barnier government have put in place

08:25that are going to help French agriculture, those things aren't going to come into place.

08:30Nevertheless, they can do.

08:31It's not the end of the story with regard to a budget, but at least it tides France

08:37over for the time being.

08:38Paul, it's always a pleasure talking to you.

08:40Thanks so much for giving us your insight there.

08:42That's Paul Smith, who is an associate professor in French and Francophone studies at the University

08:47of Nottingham.

08:48Thanks so much.

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