'Lebanon in the hands of Nabih Berri now, he can save the country or he can let the country sink'

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00:00Joining us, he was Lebanon's prime minister the last time Israel and Hezbollah went to

00:04war back in 2006.

00:06Fouad Signora, thank you so much for speaking with us from Beirut.

00:14Thank you for inviting me to do this interview, yes.

00:19We are speaking on a day when there's been more Israeli strikes on the Lebanese capital

00:24where eight Israeli soldiers have died in fighting that's happening inside of Lebanon,

00:30in southern Lebanon.

00:32What are your thoughts when you compare with those 33 days back in 2006?

00:42Well there are quite a difference and I would like to comment on what happened yesterday

00:46and today as well.

00:47But let me tell you about the difference between what was in 2012 and now.

00:52In fact, there are similarities and similarities in that it is a party which is not the government

01:02and is that he committed, first of all, this incident on the 12th of July 2006 and he committed

01:13the same thing actually in 2002-2003 in October.

01:21And he is not representing the government and not representing the Lebanese people.

01:26And in this, here we have the similarity is that the same party did the same thing.

01:32If in fact actually on the 8th of October, 2023, I made a statement clearly stating that

01:40Lebanon cannot afford to be pushed into such a war because of five reasons and to say it

01:48in brief is that we do not have up till now and we are not able to elect a president and

01:55form a functioning government.

01:58We have a major economic and living crisis in Lebanon and we have a major number of Syrian

02:07refugees in the country which we cannot afford to have them in Lebanon.

02:13And fourth is that Lebanon, like in 2006, we are not able to, in fact, to get into this

02:24war where most of the Lebanese are against being pushed into such a war and we don't

02:29have anymore the safety net that we used to have in 2006 in our relations with the Arab

02:40world and our relations with the international community.

02:44For all these five reasons, Lebanon cannot afford to get pushed into such a thing.

02:50You mentioned at the outset.

02:51Actually in 2006.

02:52Go ahead.

02:53In 2006, let me tell, let me say, in 2006 we made it clearly at that point that we do

03:05not adopt what really Hezbollah did.

03:12We disavow actually what Hezbollah did.

03:18In this time, actually in 2003, the Lebanese government did not say that.

03:25So now here we are.

03:27What to do actually?

03:28There are a number of things that the Lebanese government has to do.

03:32And in fact, the caretaker government headed by Najib Mi'ati together with the Speaker

03:40of the House, they have to make it a clear point that they cannot continue linking and

03:46making it a point that both places, Gaza and Lebanon, they have to really go hand in

04:00hand while actually what is left in Gaza, we have the 2,200,000 people are helpless

04:09and they cannot really do anything.

04:12And at the same time, most of Gaza is in rubble.

04:16So this is the thing why Lebanon should continue linking its position to a situation where

04:22we don't have any control over it.

04:24So Lebanon has to really set clearly and save Lebanon by trying to dissociate from the Gaza situation.

04:33And you say at the outset of our conversation, you said at the outset of our conversation

04:39that the problem is that you have in Lebanon a party that is not the government, Hezbollah

04:44to spell it out, a non-state actor.

04:49It reared its head on your watch when you were prime minister in 2008, bringing Lebanon

04:54to the brink of a rekindling of its civil war.

04:59And it's still there and still the most powerful force in Lebanon.

05:04Is it up to the Lebanese to solve this problem or is it up to the international community?

05:12Well, actually, there is some work that has to be done by the international community

05:19to save Lebanon.

05:21And in terms of, let's say, declaring that there should be a ceasefire.

05:27But at the same time, there is work that has to be done by the caretaker government and

05:32the speaker in talking to Hezbollah and to the present leadership, is that it is futile

05:41to continue linking Lebanon to the situation in Gaza.

05:45And it is high time to learn the lessons, to learn the lessons.

05:50Is that, and I can really can tell you my interpretation of the thing, is that over

05:55the past few years, Nasrallah has been telling us about the importance of having these missiles

06:03and this is the way how to protect the Lebanon outside the role of the government.

06:08And this is the only protection for the country.

06:12And effectively, he acted or he has been acting like a shadow government.

06:18And effectively, not the shadow, the effective government he was actually after having kidnapped

06:25the government, the Lebanese government, he was acting as if he is the government, but

06:29in fact not responsible.

06:31But by doing so, he acted as if he is the state.

06:36And in a state and as an army, he is not a match actually to the Israeli army in five

06:44matters, not in the firepower, not in the aerial power, not in the intelligence, not

06:50in the technology, and not in the international support.

06:54Look what happened yesterday after the missiles were shot from Iran, what really happened.

07:02And look what happened today actually.

07:04This is the area in which Hezbollah can really fight.

07:08And you know what really happened, is that there has been a number of casualties in the

07:16Israeli army.

07:18The problem that has happened is that he acted as an army and not as a guerrilla fighters,

07:26you see.

07:27So this is the thing, nevertheless.

07:30What is important now is that Mr. Berri, the Speaker of the House, has to talk clear,

07:38honest talk with Hezbollah.

07:40It is high time to learn the lessons and try to save the country.

07:44Because the ship, if it sinks, it will sink with all the people, including Hezbollah.

07:50Fouad Senora, just because we're with Lebanon now, is on the brink of...

07:56It's on the brink, you're saying.

07:58Lebanon is on the brink, you're saying, Fouad Senora, but when we look at the international

08:02community...

08:03Of sinking, of sinking.

08:05The United States is waiting for its presidential election.

08:11France has tried some mediation, but it seems weak.

08:15Is there anybody out there, a regional player, somebody who can make a difference for Lebanon

08:21at this point in time?

08:24Yes, let me tell you what happened in 2006 and see how we can imitate that in one way

08:33or another.

08:34It's that the Lebanese army, the Lebanese state at that time, the Lebanese government,

08:38what we did, we formulated the seven points plan.

08:44And that was in Rome.

08:45We put it on the table and we said that this is the position of the Lebanese government.

08:51On that basis, that the...

08:56You're hearing me, isn't it?

08:58Loud and clear.

08:59Hello?

09:00Yes, I can hear you loud and clear.

09:03Yeah, fine.

09:04That this is the position of the Lebanese government, which we declared it in the Rome

09:10conference, that these are the seven points plan, which were used effectively as a basis

09:16for the formulation of the 1701.

09:21Up till now, there hasn't been a real position that has to be set on the table clear and

09:30loud by the Lebanese government.

09:32And just very briefly, because we're...

09:33It has to be really stated clearly.

09:35Just to be very brief, just because we're out of time, just to be very brief, because

09:39we're out of time, Fouad Signora, all of this hinges on, like you say, the different players

09:44within Lebanon speaking to one another.

09:46Lebanon is without a president.

09:49What are the chances of Lebanon's political parties agreeing on a new president anytime

09:56soon?

09:57Yeah, yeah.

09:58You see, now it is in the hands of Nabi Barri, and he has to put matters clearly and fine

10:08that there should be an election of a new president yesterday and not today, and not

10:14to link this with this and that, and to say, we have a dialogue, or we have to wait until

10:20we have a ceasefire, and so on.

10:23Lebanon cannot wait to elect a president.

10:25It is in the hands of Barri now.

10:27He can save the country, or he can let the country sink.

10:31Fouad Signora, former prime minister of Lebanon, thank you so much for speaking with us here

10:36on France 24.

10:43Same to you.

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