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The People's History Show Season 5 Episode 4 - Full Movie
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00:30Hello and welcome to the People's History Show, the series that uncovers incredible stories all over Scotland.
00:35I'm Jennifer Rear.
00:36And I'm Fergus Sutherland, coming up on tonight's show.
00:41I'm going to Ravenscraig in Motherwell, which once housed the biggest hot strip steel plant in Europe.
00:47With over 12,000 workers, it was the biggest and most important employer in South Lanarkshire.
00:54And I'll be finding out about a pioneer of women's football, Edna Nielis,
00:58who pushed the boundaries of the beautiful game here in Scotland.
01:03Now, the Ravenscraig Steelworks site was once the centre of the Scottish steel industry.
01:09It was massive and it had a huge impact on the area and the people of Motherwell.
01:13Sunday, 28th of July, 1996 was a sad day for many in Motherwell.
01:26The largest hot strip steel mill in Western Europe, Ravenscraig, saw its final day.
01:32Its iconic towers fell to the ground.
01:34I think it was a motive because at one point we had a huge steelworks on our doorstep.
01:40It was thousands of jobs for our local community.
01:43And almost overnight that disappeared and it was devastating.
01:46And we didn't really recover as an area.
01:49When we're talking about the Industrial Revolution, we're talking about places like Motherwell.
01:54And for Motherwell, that industry was steel.
01:58Well, Ravenscraig was the most advanced steelworks in Scotland.
02:02It was unique in Scotland in that it was an integrated steelworks.
02:05That means basically they did everything.
02:07The raw materials came in, were processed, turned into iron.
02:10And then the iron, while it was still molten, was turned into steel.
02:13And then the steel would be processed and turned into products that could be sold.
02:17Ravenscraig was a vast site.
02:18It was about 700 football pitches or twice the size of Monaco.
02:21You had coal receiving yards, you had iron ore receiving yards,
02:25blast furnaces of which you've seen the outlines or the footprints of.
02:31It was had the capacity to produce up to 3 million tonnes of steel.
02:51This is what it's like to be inside a modern steel plant.
02:55It's a bit further advanced than Ravenscraig was, but it gives you a real feel for what it was like.
03:00Especially the sheer heat and the noise that you get in here.
03:03You'll see I'm wearing hearing aids due to the noise.
03:09It was terrific noise in the strip mill.
03:12Lots of people, lots of dangerous things going on, lots of smells.
03:17I went in there and I was barely past 20 years old.
03:23It was a scary, scary place.
03:25The plant was such a big part of the culture of Motherwell.
03:29At its peak, it employed over 12,000 people in the steel industry.
03:33The people you worked with, you were all, it was a dangerous place to work as well.
03:37But I don't know anybody that didn't enjoy it.
03:39I spent a good part of my working life there.
03:45It was utopia.
03:47A great place to work.
03:49When you were working round about the vessel or molten metal in the teeming pits,
03:53you had a woolen suit.
03:56So you had woolen trousers, woolen jacket.
03:58You normally had a neck scarf.
04:01Fireproof helmet.
04:03Dark glasses.
04:04Hearing protection.
04:05And I actually remember one time I met one of the teemers in Hamilton one day.
04:13And I didn't recognise him.
04:14And I had worked with this chap for almost a year.
04:17I'd only ever seen him in work.
04:19I met him outside dressed in his civvies.
04:21I didn't even know who it was.
04:23The production rate was so high that Motherwell became the steel production capital of Scotland
04:28and became known as Steelopolis.
04:31It was really important to the towns of Motherwell and Whishall
04:34mainly because the Ravenscraig workers, because it was the most productive plant,
04:39they were the best paid by quite some distance.
04:41They were much better paid than other steel workers.
04:44So suddenly people who could never dream of affording a car,
04:48they could buy these luxury, well, what seemed like luxuries at the time.
04:51So it really transformed the local economy.
04:53It's no surprise really that Motherwell Town Centre was completely rebuilt
04:58since in the years after Ravenscraig opened.
05:00The steel industry had such a big impact on the people in Motherwell,
05:04even Motherwell Football Club are nicknamed the Steel Men.
05:09The output was truly astonishing.
05:11At one point making two million tonnes of molten steel every year.
05:16They would sell the steel onto other manufacturers
05:19and then they would be produced all around the country, maybe abroad as well.
05:24So you were driving your car, you could have been driving a piece of Ravenscraig.
05:27Yes, and of course the joy with steel is because steel is nearly all recycled.
05:31You're probably still seeing Ravenscraig products being used today.
05:34So steel that was made here in Ravenscraig has still been used.
05:37Exactly.
05:37Except it's been recycled.
05:38From the 1970s onwards, global industrial competition really started to impact
05:59upon the heavy industries of Great Britain.
06:02There were attempts to restructure the steel industry throughout the 70s
06:05and then into the 1980s.
06:07Ian McGregor, who many people will remember,
06:10was made the chairman of British Steel in 1980
06:12and one of his first recommendations was to close Ravenscraig.
06:16There was hints of closing down from the mid-80s,
06:19even though we were doing really well in the mid-80s
06:21where quality steel we were producing.
06:24I know that because I was in the quality control department.
06:26Quality steel we produced was second to none
06:28and that was not just in Britain, that was in Europe.
06:32But there was rumours then because where we were situated and well
06:35we were in the central belt, so our supplies had to come from Hunterston, etc.
06:40So you've got cost implications there as well.
06:42A decision was made to close Ravenscraig and this kind of gradually happened really.
06:47It was death by a thousand cuts in a way.
06:49Gradually different parts of the plant were closed down
06:51until it was a much smaller enterprise and much less self-contained, I guess.
06:56It was scheduled to shut, we were told, I think it was 1990,
07:00we were told it was shut in 1992, right about that.
07:10On Saturday 27th of June 1992, the plant finally closed.
07:15It was an extremely difficult time for the workers with mass redundancies.
07:20Some had been working there for over 30 years
07:23and now they were forced to close this chapter of their lives.
07:28You still hear the stories of what Ravenscraig meant
07:31but also the aftermath when people were left with absolutely nothing
07:34to take them forward and it had a big impact on the local community,
07:38the local community I'm a councillor in.
07:39I think we still feel the effects of Ravenscraig,
07:42the people who lost their jobs and we never got jobs in the future.
07:44The Lanarkshire area, especially that round about Murthal,
07:48Bellsill, Hollowtown, Mossend, had a really heavy impact.
07:52The steelworks had a heavy impact, it was families worked in there.
07:55I mean obviously the pubs, shops and that all around,
08:01they were hugely affected.
08:03A lot of them retrained, you know, they were paid so long
08:06to train bus drivers or, you know, whatever.
08:11Some of them dwindled their money away drinking.
08:14That's it.
08:16It's a bad day, isn't it?
08:18Once it's finished, when they do something there,
08:20they find something else.
08:22And I think for all people who created new,
08:24the community created new,
08:26I think there's grace what's happening,
08:28doing here, isn't it?
08:29This place should still be alive and still working,
08:31the people should still be working.
08:33There's nothing left here for anybody.
08:35The site was completely levelled in 1993.
08:45The area is now the largest brownfield site in Europe,
08:49but there are extensive regeneration plans in the works.
08:52It's a very emotive site for our community
08:55and Motherwell and other parts of Lanarkshire,
08:58and we're desperate to do something with it
09:00and to rebuild Ravenscraig
09:01and make it a modern area for our community.
09:04The area itself is now being rebuilt,
09:07regrown and renewed.
09:10I think the regeneration of Ravenscraig
09:12is across all age groups.
09:13I mean, it's wonderful to have the college,
09:15it's wonderful to have the sports centre.
09:17It's young people and old people
09:18who want to see something on the site,
09:20they want to see it redeveloped,
09:21because we all remember the history of it.
09:23Even people who haven't lived through it,
09:24they still remember the powerful history for our area.
09:27The site that once gave Motherwell its glow has gone,
09:30but its impact can still be felt.
09:33I think this is not just a Motherwell project,
09:35this is a North Lanarkshire and Scotland project.
09:37It's that significant,
09:38it's a site that's bigger than Monaco,
09:40and the investment going in
09:41is at a scale we've maybe not seen before.
09:43So this is not just for Motherwell,
09:45it's for the whole of Scotland
09:46that's going to become very significant.
09:47It's hugely important in the popular memory,
09:50not just because it was such a key part
09:52of Scotland's steel industry,
09:54but also as a kind of symbol
09:55of Scotland's manufacturing industry.
09:57Scottish steel goes way back
09:59into the 19th century
10:00when Colville's was making steel
10:03for the Forth Bridge.
10:05It's kind of that symbol
10:07of when we used to make things.
10:09They've done another job since then,
10:10but Ravenscraig's up there,
10:12the job's just the kind of place it was.
10:15You could be yourself in it.
10:17Good laughs, good times.
10:19If I had to do my time again,
10:22I wouldn't have any hesitation
10:23in saying I'm going to the steelworks.
10:26A lifetime in the steelworks.
10:27It's almost been a lifetime,
10:2947, 48 years.
10:33And you're still alive.
10:34And I'm still here.
10:35You've still got your fingers.
10:37Still got my fingers.
10:38The size of that site is incredible.
10:49Yeah, twice the size of Monaco.
10:50Amazing.
10:51Now, we've got to take a short break,
10:53but make sure you stay with us
10:54because I'll be finding out
10:55about a trailblazer of women's football.
10:57And she went on to play all over Europe.
10:59See you after the break.
11:00Welcome back to the People's History Show.
11:17Now, it's hard to believe,
11:19but at one point,
11:20women's football was banned in Scotland.
11:22However, there were women who refused to accept it
11:25and played the game regardless.
11:26Women like Edna Nielis.
11:30MUSIC
11:31For years, football in Scotland
11:45was thought of as exclusively a man's game.
11:48There were, however,
11:49women willing to challenge those attitudes.
11:52Women who would go on to play at the highest level.
11:54Women like Edna Nielis.
11:57In the 60s,
11:58there wasn't such a thing as a women's football team
12:00that we knew of.
12:01So breaking down those barriers then
12:03was absolutely vital to the success
12:06that we now see in the women's game.
12:08Edna's generation,
12:09and Edna in particular herself,
12:10what she was able to do as a player
12:12definitely inspired others to go on
12:15and play football as well.
12:16Edna's ability,
12:18her technical ability,
12:19was amazing, incredible.
12:21And she could always,
12:22it didn't matter who she was playing beside,
12:24she could bring them into the game.
12:26She was a total football player.
12:30Contrary to popular opinion,
12:31women playing football isn't a new phenomenon.
12:34In fact,
12:34we've been playing the game
12:35since as far back as 1881.
12:38The women's game in Scotland
12:40became really popular
12:41during the First World War.
12:44Women went into the factories
12:45and took up the jobs
12:46that the men had vacated
12:47to go off and fight.
12:49And as part of that process,
12:51they started to take up
12:52leisure activities and sports
12:54that the men used to do, basically.
12:58Opportunities were opened up.
12:59And one of the games
13:00that they took up was football.
13:01So the games really start to take off
13:04at a local level within the factories,
13:06and then the leagues start to develop
13:07between the factories,
13:08in much the same way
13:09that the men's game had.
13:11So you would have factory teams
13:12playing against one another.
13:14And these grew in popularity
13:15and they would get huge crowds
13:17coming to watch them.
13:19However,
13:20when the First World War ends
13:21and all the men come back,
13:22the women are told,
13:24thank you for your services,
13:25but now it's time to go back
13:26to the home and the hearth
13:28and the roles that you had
13:29before the war.
13:30And the pinnacle of that discussion
13:32is in 1921,
13:33when the FA decide to ban
13:36women's football.
13:37So they take this radical decision
13:39that they are no longer
13:41going to permit women
13:42to play on any of the affiliated pitches
13:44across England.
13:47And the SFA,
13:48the Scottish Football Association,
13:49subsequently adopt that same ruling
13:52and ban women from playing
13:53on their affiliated pitches.
13:55This ban would change
13:57the course of the women's game forever.
13:58We've got the Scottish FA Minute Books
14:01in the museum collection
14:02and you look at 1924, 1925,
14:04a number of times
14:05you've got senior football clubs
14:06in Scotland
14:07asking permission
14:08to host a women's football match.
14:10They had to ask permission
14:11from the Scottish FA
14:12and each time the Scottish FA says,
14:14no, we don't support women's football.
14:16But women's football still went on,
14:17didn't it?
14:18Yeah, the Scottish FA couldn't ban
14:20women from playing football full stop.
14:22There was nothing to stop them
14:23from doing that.
14:25But what they were able to do
14:26was to stop organisations
14:28within their control
14:29from supporting women's football,
14:31so particularly the member clubs.
14:33They wouldn't budge.
14:34They just thought it was not for women.
14:36Women cannae play football.
14:38That's all we used to get told.
14:39Oh, women cannae play football.
14:41I always tried throughout my youth
14:42to play football.
14:43It was never allowed.
14:44Not allowed at primary school
14:45to play football.
14:46Not allowed at secondary school
14:47to play football.
14:48And believe you me,
14:48I asked a lot.
14:50And we didn't realise then
14:52how much adversity
14:54we were going to face
14:55just to get a game of football.
14:58It was 50 years later
15:00in the 1970s
15:01when things would finally
15:03start to change.
15:04In 1971,
15:06UEFA wanted to bring structure
15:07to the women's game.
15:08And so a vote
15:09with its 31 members
15:11was held.
15:1230 football associations
15:13passed the vote
15:14with only one,
15:15not two.
15:17Scotland.
15:17Elsie, what do you think
15:19of the SFA's attitude
15:20to not allowing women
15:22to play football
15:23or not recognising them?
15:25I'll need to watch my words here.
15:27I think in this day and age
15:29when there are bills
15:29going through Parliament
15:30for equal rights for women,
15:32equal conditions,
15:33equal pay,
15:34it's dreadful that they're
15:35against us playing at football.
15:37The SFA I'm talking about.
15:39Us playing at football.
15:40The SFA I'm talking about.
15:42Something's got to be done.
15:44We must have these...
15:45equal rights or we're never
15:46going to be getting any better.
15:48Five days a week,
15:49Edna Neelis helps to put
15:51the spirit into bottles.
15:53But come lunchtime,
15:53Edna shuns the company
15:55of her female workmates.
15:56She likes to play with the boys
15:57and the more spirit they put
15:58into that,
15:59the more she likes it.
16:00The first time I set eyes on Edna,
16:02we were in the
16:03Butlins tournament finals
16:04and this new team
16:05came to play with the boys.
16:06And the more spirit they put
16:07into that,
16:08the more she likes it.
16:09The first time I set eyes on Edna,
16:11we were in the
16:12Butlins tournament finals
16:13and this new team
16:15came into her line of vision
16:16and it was West Thorn United.
16:18So there we were
16:19thinking it'd be a skoosh.
16:20And here we're walking
16:21onto the park,
16:22two lines of women
16:24walking onto the park
16:25and this wee boy pipes up.
16:27Wake up Maggie,
16:29I think I've got something
16:31to say to you.
16:33It was Edna.
16:34I turned around and I'm going,
16:34Oh my God, what have we got here?
16:37It was Edna.
16:37She was Rod Stewart, daft.
16:39Absolutely daft and Rod Stewart.
16:41So we giggled and giggled
16:43and we're going to the park.
16:44But I just, I fell in love with Edna.
16:45Just, that was it.
16:47There was an immediate
16:49erm, closeness.
16:51It was Rose, Edna and myself
16:53for that day on.
16:54Three amigos.
16:55Even though, but the beaters.
16:58Edna and Elis, Rose Riley
16:59and Elsie Cook
17:00were all part of an amazing team
17:01that became a driving force,
17:03pushing forward the world
17:04of women's football.
17:06Why do you think the SFA
17:08doesn't recognise you?
17:10Simply because we're women.
17:12That is the only reason
17:13they've ever given us.
17:15Rose, you are pretty well known
17:16in ladies football.
17:17Do you honestly think it's a game
17:18to be played by ladies?
17:20Yes, I don't see no reason
17:21why they shouldn't be.
17:22Yeah, but it's not exactly
17:23the most gentle sport
17:25that you could play.
17:25No, I wouldn't say hockey is either.
17:27After all, they've got sticks
17:28and we've nothing.
17:30Despite not having the support
17:31of the SFA,
17:32the Scottish Women's Football
17:33Association was set up in 1972.
17:37And the first official
17:38Scotland versus England game
17:40took place in Greenock
17:41at the Ravenscraig Stadium
17:42that same year.
17:44Edna, then just 18,
17:47was part of that historic team.
17:49Do you honestly think,
17:50you know, the SFA have banned
17:51or just don't recognise women's football.
17:54Do you really think though
17:54that football is a game for ladies?
17:57Well, we've proved it,
17:58that we can be good.
17:59I'm not saying the likes
18:00that we are as good as we may.
18:01We could have a fair show of skill
18:03as well as scoring the goals
18:05when we were playing.
18:06Our skills were unbelievable.
18:08Technically, she was
18:09an unbelievable player.
18:11She was like a wee messy.
18:12People have compared her
18:13to Jimmy Johnston
18:14and anybody who knows
18:15Jimmy Johnston
18:16and how great he was as a player,
18:17a great dribbler,
18:18great close control of the ball.
18:20But also I think Edna
18:21was a goal scorer as well.
18:22She could actually kind of
18:22put the ball in the back of the net,
18:24which was a great advantage
18:25at that time.
18:25So she had, I think,
18:26everything going for her
18:27as a football player.
18:29You'll find the match, what,
18:30a couple of weeks ago
18:31and you scored 11 goals.
18:32Yeah, we were playing a team
18:33from the Femmling.
18:34We won 16-0.
18:36Edna and Rose Riley
18:39played together
18:41and were very good friends.
18:43And they were the best
18:45female Scottish players
18:46in that period.
18:47And then Rose heard about this girl
18:49playing for professional football
18:52for Reims in France.
18:53They went to France
18:54and they did a trial for Reims
18:57and they really impressed
18:58everybody there
18:59and they played a number of games.
19:01While they were with Reims,
19:02the season was due to end,
19:04so an Italian scout was at the game,
19:07signed them for AC Milan
19:10and off they went to Italy.
19:12Nielas was hugely successful at Milan.
19:14In fact, one game,
19:15she scored a hat-trick
19:16in front of 20,000 fans.
19:19How many male footballers
19:20have actually managed to play
19:21for AC Milan at the equivalent?
19:24Not many.
19:25Edna's success in Italy
19:26only continued
19:27and she went on to win
19:28not only the league
19:30but also the cup several times.
19:33After speaking out
19:34against the national coach in 1975,
19:37Edna, Rose and Elsie
19:38all received lifetime bans
19:39from the SFA.
19:41Edna, unfortunately that meant
19:43she didn't get to play
19:45in international matches again.
19:47However, Rose managed to circumvent that
19:51by being allowed to play for Italy.
19:54So Rose actually went on
19:55and played for Italy
19:56which is possibly why Rose has
19:58a higher profile
19:59in the public consciousness now.
20:01People know her
20:02because of that success
20:04and unfortunately,
20:04Edna wasn't able to do that
20:06so I think that's part of the reason
20:08that we don't necessarily know her name
20:11and we should know her name
20:12because she was a pioneer of the game.
20:15Both Edna and Rose
20:16continued their careers
20:17away from Scottish soil
20:18and played for Italian teams
20:20winning leagues and Italian Cups
20:22throughout the 1980s
20:23before retiring in 1990.
20:26Sadly, after suffering from ill health,
20:28Edna passed away in 2015
20:30but her legacy still lives on.
20:38You just look at them and think
20:39they've just battled against all odds
20:41to achieve something amazing.
20:47Especially for young girls
20:49that opportunities are endless these days.
20:51We certainly should appreciate
20:52the hard work and determination
20:53that they showed in order
20:55to give us the platform
20:56that we have now.
21:07We're now internationally recognised
21:10as top-class players
21:13in the women's game
21:14and that, I think, is the legacy of these women
21:17and, in particular, Edna.
21:18I mean, Rose Riley's now in the
21:20Hall of Fame
21:21but what do you think of players like Edna?
21:23Surely...
21:23Edna should have been in the Hall of Fame as well.
21:26We should remember players like Edna
21:28not just for their abilities on the pitch
21:30but for being trailblazers of the women's game.
21:32She was amazing on the pitch
21:34and she was amazing off it.
21:35She lit up the dressing room.
21:37It didn't matter where we were
21:39or what we were doing.
21:41Edna was a life and soul
21:42at everything that was taking place.
21:44She was just a character.
21:46A Glasgow character.
21:48It's amazing to think that AC Milan
21:50had two Scottish players.
21:51I know, it's incredible.
21:53Thanks for watching the People's History Show.
21:55We'll see you next time.
22:02We'll see you next time.
22:28Bye.
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