00:00Joachim Bitterlich is a former German ambassador to NATO.
00:04First of all, it's a totally untypical NATO summit, with certain public elements we've never seen before.
00:11But let's put this aside.
00:13This is the first real NATO summit, what I call, within, and I take this new German expression, within this Zeitwende.
00:22It's a deep change of time, and it's a new time of NATO.
00:30To some extent.
00:32And therefore, it's one of the most important NATO summits we have been observing in the last, let's say, two, last 20 years.
00:44And President Trump's supporters presumably will say that he's pulled off an absolute diplomatic masterstroke here.
00:51He's made almost everyone cough up 5%. Would you go along with that?
00:56Well, it's due to American pressure. It's right.
01:00And we needed, to some extent, this American pressure to wake up in Europe.
01:05Because when you look at the last 20 years in Europe, we have been sleepwalking, to some extent.
01:11And despite of, let's say, the Russian aggression in Ukraine, towards, let's say, the developing, unsecure world around us, we have been sleepwalking for too long time.
01:24And now Europeans are step by step, a bit slowly, but they are waking up.
01:30And therefore, this is a really important summit, if we are able to take out of this summit the right consequences for our own defense and for security policy.
01:43So is this level of defense spending 5% realistic?
01:48I take Hertz's formula, three and a half plus one and a half.
01:52I think this is the right formula.
01:55At the end of the day, I think it's, for me, feasible for the majority of NATO members.
02:02It has to be done when you look at the underinvestment in defense in Europe in the last 20 years.
02:09It's right.
02:10And there's a real necessity.
02:13Our real problem will be how to speed up and how to get, at the end of the day, a real coherent NATO defense and possibilities of intervention.
02:25That's the key for me.
02:27Can Europe truly stand on its own within NATO or does it still and will it continue to rely very heavily on Washington?
02:38Well, to some extent, we have to continue to rely on the U.S., yes.
02:44But we will have to be able to rely, let's say, at a lower level to the U.S. than before.
02:52Because the U.S. have certain other goals, objectives or problems ahead of them.
02:59And the Europeans have to develop, let's say, their own, let's say, defense.
