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00:00Shea Gilgis, Alexander, Oklahoma City take Game 1 of the Western Conference Final.
00:05Game 2 scheduled for tonight.
00:07We talked about the craziness last night between the Knicks and Pacers.
00:11SGA, the new MVP of the league.
00:14We'll mix in some thoughts on that.
00:16How does Tatum fit into the NBA's hierarchy when he comes back?
00:19Is there a new face of the NBA?
00:216-1-7, 7-7-9, 7-9-3-7.
00:24Real quick, Keith, the Twitch chat is discussing the...
00:29What happened today?
00:29Well, they usually are.
00:31Yeah.
00:32The weather out there.
00:33Oh, it's gloomy.
00:34Matty H.
00:35It's cold.
00:36Did the Red Sox just cancel the game now?
00:37What's the point of waiting?
00:38They're going to get you in there.
00:40I mean, it's not a bad point.
00:42Who said this?
00:43It's supposed to be terrible tomorrow, though, too.
00:45Well, good point.
00:45Maybe that all...
00:46I guess better each day, I think I heard.
00:48But it's a literal nor'easter out there.
00:50Yeah.
00:51It's like 40 degrees.
00:52Which my son was very baffled by that term.
00:54The nor'easter?
00:55My wife mentioned that when we were sitting at dinner last night.
00:57She goes, oh, we're supposed to get a nor'easter.
00:58He's very confused with the term.
01:00Good weather talk at the Jones dinner table?
01:01And he goes, dad, what's a nor'easter?
01:02And I go, I was like, what actually is what?
01:06So the Easter bunny shows up.
01:07And he's just handing out eggs.
01:09Just a storm in the northeast?
01:11What actually is a nor'easter?
01:12I think there is like a scientific explanation for it.
01:15Okay.
01:15I've always thought...
01:16I was a little put on the spot by the seven-year-old last night.
01:17He's like, dad, what's a nor'easter?
01:19Great question.
01:19They think you know everything.
01:20It's a weather event.
01:21Yeah.
01:21I was like, I don't know.
01:22We're getting a storm.
01:23That's pretty much how I explained it.
01:25We live in the northeast.
01:26It's a storm.
01:26That was how I explained it.
01:28But yeah, they're not getting this game.
01:29A nor'easter is a storm along the east coast of North America.
01:33East coast?
01:33Yeah.
01:34So you can get a nor'easter and...
01:36Characterized by strong northeasterly winds.
01:39Thank you, Nick.
01:40I'm also reading the same thing.
01:41It's windy.
01:41Yeah, we're on the same page.
01:42You can get a nor'easter in like Wilmington, North Carolina.
01:44That doesn't make sense.
01:44Yeah, it's windy.
01:46Okay.
01:46It's the northeast wind is what it is.
01:48You may get some coastal flooding as well.
01:50Sometimes snow.
01:51See, that's what's confusing as a kid growing up in New England.
01:54You hear the nor'easter term quite a bit.
01:56Sometimes it applies to snow.
01:58Sometimes it's just rain.
01:59It is very baffling.
02:00So I'm like, is this just...
02:01Is it rain, snow, or sunny?
02:02Or cloudy?
02:03I only need like four things.
02:05I read the great state of Vermont and also New Hampshire could get some snow in this storm.
02:09Snow?
02:10Memorial weekend snow in like northern Vermont.
02:12Well, Mount Washington normally is covered.
02:14Normally covered.
02:14That's a good point.
02:15It's like July 12th.
02:16They're like, I've got two inches of snow up here on Mount Washington.
02:19It'll be some snow on the old man's grave is what it'll be.
02:21Well, let's just leave him out of this.
02:22May he rest in peace.
02:23He had a good run, though.
02:25The old man on the mountain had a great run.
02:26He had a great run.
02:27One of the greatest.
02:28One of the symbols of the state.
02:30Mike is in Framingham.
02:31Wants to discuss the Red Sox.
02:32Go ahead, Mike.
02:33Hey, Mike.
02:35Thanks for taking my call.
02:36Sure.
02:37First, I want to agree with you on Cora doing a lousy job on and off the field this year.
02:42But anyway, here's my solution for the fact that the Red Sox can't hit.
02:47Put story on the injured list.
02:50You can make up some injury.
02:51They do that all the time.
02:53Send Rafael Cedela and Kristen Campbell back to the minors.
02:58Have Campbell work on the first base and have the two of them learn how to hit.
03:02And bring up Mayer to play shortstop, Anthony to play the outfield,
03:06and the kid that they got for sale to come up and play second base.
03:11You can't do any worse from a hitting point than what these people have been doing so far.
03:16All right.
03:16Good solution by Mike.
03:17We love it.
03:18Send down Campbell.
03:19Call up Grissom along with Mayer and Anthony.
03:23Which has been our plan all along.
03:25That part of it, for sure.
03:26So teach Campbell how to play first.
03:28Teach the other guys how to hit.
03:30Get rid of Story.
03:31Story stinks.
03:32So Karabas has been beating the drum that Story needs to learn how to play first.
03:35Or something else.
03:37Yeah, how about learning how to ride the bench.
03:39Learn the bench.
03:39Or hit.
03:40Exactly.
03:40I was looking.
03:41Since that Chicago series run, he went off with the home run.
03:44He's hitting 130.
03:45Learn the bench.
03:46Can we get the Adam Silver meme?
03:48You better get ready to learn bench, buddy.
03:51Yeah, he's been awful.
03:53And so is Marcelo Meyer now at this point, you are manipulating just service time?
03:59Or you don't have a spot for him?
04:01You got a spot for him.
04:02You have spots.
04:03He already said he'd be willing to play any position.
04:05So that would open up second base.
04:07Maybe even open up first base.
04:08Or if you want him to play his natural position, that guy's not winning the job right now.
04:13Nope.
04:13I'm with Mike.
04:15I'm with him.
04:15Mike.
04:16Bring Meyer in and play short.
04:17One of the better plans I've heard, Mike.
04:18I wouldn't say it was all perfect.
04:20Campbell also in a huge funk.
04:22Okay, I was just going to bring that up.
04:23He can't hit a lick.
04:23The only guys hitting right now are like Narvaez and Devers.
04:26Okay.
04:26Christian Campbell month by month.
04:28Just because it's easy to sort that out.
04:30Yeah.
04:30He started hot as a pistol.
04:31Oh my goodness.
04:32Did he ever.
04:33Hotter than a pistol.
04:34Only a few games in March, but he hit .375 in March.
04:38Still count.
04:39.287 in April.
04:40That's still nice.
04:41Yeah, yeah.
04:41Good OPS.
04:42.844.
04:43.848 rather.
04:44Three weeks into May.
04:45Three homers in April.
04:47Oh yeah.
04:48Into May.
04:49Touch them all.
04:49He is hitting .094.
04:52Sorry.
04:53That's five for his last 53.
04:55He has scored a run.
04:56He got all run.
04:58He does have a home run.
05:00He scored.
05:00His only run he scored was a home run.
05:02Because he's not on base.
05:02Yeah.
05:03And he had.
05:03He has three RBIs.
05:04That might have all happened.
05:05Was that all in the same thing?
05:06The run?
05:06Yeah, it was a three-run home run.
05:07Was it a three or two?
05:08I think it might have been a three-run home run.
05:10So all of his offense was from one swing.
05:12Unless he had a sack flying there somewhere.
05:13Basically.
05:14Now he did bleed out a hit last night.
05:16Yeah.
05:16So maybe he's heating up.
05:18That could be the sign of things to come.
05:19The problem with Christian Campbell being the solution at first is that all of a sudden you look
05:24up and he's hitting .231 with a .698 OPS.
05:26I don't love that.
05:28I mean, Campbell.
05:29I'll tell you.
05:30Their cleanup hitter and their first baseman.
05:32And a lot of times it's been the same.
05:34Yeah.
05:35It's just like a black hole.
05:36Like whoever is hitting cleanup can't.
05:38Whoever is playing first base for the most part can't.
05:40I know Willie O'Brien was hitting cleanup last night.
05:43They moved Campbell down to fifth.
05:46I don't know.
05:46It's just.
05:47It's been a mess.
05:47Not great, Bob.
05:48Sogard actually had a couple of knocks.
05:50And the lone run scored.
05:52Nicholas John Sogard.
05:53I mean, somehow he's not the worst hitter in the lineup.
05:56I don't know how that's possible.
05:57No.
05:57But somehow his story is just.
06:00You're getting nothing there.
06:01What's the excuse?
06:03Because for years it was like, oh, he's just hurt.
06:05He's hurt.
06:05He's hurt.
06:05He's hurt.
06:05Yeah, right.
06:06No, now he's very healthy.
06:07He also sucked in the field last night.
06:09Too healthy.
06:09That's what it is.
06:10He's like, guys, I'm used to breaking down by now.
06:12I'm too healthy.
06:13I'm feeling too good.
06:15Maybe it's part of the problem.
06:16One more Red Sox item.
06:17I know we're playing the talks from NBA.
06:18We'll get to it here in a moment.
06:19At 617-779-7937.
06:21You brought this up to me.
06:22Yeah.
06:23I mean, Hendricks got into it with the Boston Globe prior to the game,
06:28complaining about his usage.
06:29He went out and pitched terribly last night.
06:31So I think those things are fair to say.
06:32Apparently he's getting death threats.
06:34You brought this up to me.
06:35So, yeah, which is just insane.
06:37I mean, I feel like we shouldn't.
06:39I mean, there's no other side to this.
06:41There's no argument here.
06:42But I saw Dan Roach retweeted a, let's see, retweeted somebody who,
06:48actually, this must be on Liam Hendricks' Instagram story.
06:53He just said, just as a FYI, threats against my life and my wife's life are
06:57horrible and cruel.
06:58You need help.
06:59And then he goes on to this whole thing, which, yeah,
07:01I think that kind of goes without saying.
07:03Yeah, I don't think.
07:04Or so, you know, so we thought.
07:06I mean, that's, I mean, you're right.
07:08It goes without saying.
07:09I mean, there's no other side to that, reprehensible.
07:11But apparently Liam Hendricks dealing with that.
07:14In the meantime, he's frustrated with the situation.
07:16Alex Cora hasn't properly communicated that to him.
07:18Alex Cora did not communicate to Garrett Crochet.
07:20It was going to be a light night for Garrett Crochet,
07:22who said he was good for 110, 115, seven, eight innings last night.
07:26So, basically, Crochet and Hendricks want to pitch more.
07:29Cora wants them to pitch less.
07:30Correct.
07:30Got it.
07:31Because he's so busy throwing all the relievers, extra innings,
07:34like he's been doing, some of his starters as well.
07:37And then the communication with Devers has been poor.
07:39So the pressure is ratcheting up.
07:41On Alex Cora, we'll talk about it with Rob Bradford.
07:43For his weekly appearance, he joins us at 1130 every Thursday here on Jones and Keefe.
07:48We do have a new MVP in the NBA, Keefe.
07:51Yeah, not my MVP.
07:53He won pretty.
07:54Handily.
07:54Not unanimously, but he got 71 out of 100 votes.
07:57So first place votes, he got 71.
07:59Jokic got 29.
08:01How about he giving it to Jokic?
08:02Me too.
08:03So the vote total really wasn't that close.
08:05100 plus votes between SGA and Jokic at the end of the day for MVP.
08:10In the next couple of days, he's going to be a lot of beer, probably.
08:12Definitely my MVP.
08:14Jokic.
08:14He probably had an extra beer when he found out he wasn't the MVP.
08:17Yeah.
08:17Runner up.
08:18So yeah, he wouldn't be my MVP either.
08:20But focusing out West, especially, Keefe, and maybe we're not giving enough credit to
08:24Brunson and specifically Halliburton.
08:26But focusing specifically out West, people have been itching to have the face of the
08:31league conversation.
08:32We here in Boston, prior to his injury, were itching to try to get Jason Tatum wedged into
08:37that conversation some way, somehow.
08:40Is it fair to say if SGA or Anthony Edwards wins a title this year and one of those guys
08:46are going to be playing in the NBA finals?
08:47Yeah.
08:48Is it fair to say that guy is taking the mantle as the next guy in the league?
08:53Yeah, I think for now they would be.
08:54Now, do you think the next guy or the face of the league, can it be or has it ever been
08:58a non-American player?
09:00Well, that's what's interesting with SGA, right?
09:02I mean, he's Canadian.
09:03It's different than, you know, like a German player or a Serbian player or a Spanish player.
09:07But was Steve Nash ever the face of the NBA?
09:09I don't know if Nash was.
09:11I'm not sure Giannis was.
09:12I don't even know if Jokic was.
09:13I think he's like acknowledged as the best player.
09:15Right.
09:16I don't think Jokic is.
09:16When you think the league, you probably still think LeBron before you.
09:19But like, you know, a kid from Toronto is probably as close as you can without being
09:24American.
09:24But like when it rolls around Team USA and all that stuff, and if they actually go to,
09:29they were talking about doing like the all-star game, maybe USA versus the world next
09:32year, like he wouldn't be on Team USA.
09:33So I wonder if that, like if Anthony Edwards, for example, has more of a chance of doing that,
09:39even though SGA was the MVP, he's going to be first-team All-NBA for three consecutive
09:44years.
09:45He was runner-up in the MVP last year, right?
09:48He and Jokic just flip-flopped from last year to this year.
09:50Yep.
09:50And then winning the title, like being the guy that wins the title, that all obviously
09:54is going to vault you to the top.
09:56So, because I don't think it's unanimous that he's the league's best player, right?
10:01SGA?
10:02Yeah.
10:02I think it's Jokic.
10:03Most people think it's Jokic.
10:04Yeah.
10:04He just had the MVP season, right?
10:06Maybe like the year.
10:06Yeah.
10:07SGA is really good.
10:08And yeah, I don't, if Tatum were healthy, I wouldn't trade Tatum for SGA straight up.
10:12I wouldn't do that.
10:13I would also not trade Tatum for SGA.
10:15And so like, would you rather have Edwards or SGA?
10:19Edwards is like four years younger, I think.
10:21Yeah.
10:22Probably Edwards.
10:23I was going to say, because SGA is basically Tatum's age.
10:26He's like four months younger, I think.
10:28Yeah.
10:28They're the same age.
10:29Edwards is sneaky.
10:30Right.
10:31Edwards is sneaky, kind of tiny, but it's not like SGA is huge either.
10:35Yeah.
10:35How tall is he?
10:36Oh, I bet he's 6'5", do you think?
10:39Edwards?
10:39He's listed at 6'4".
10:41The Ant-Man?
10:41Yeah.
10:42He plays bigger.
10:43He does play bigger.
10:44I just, I would probably lean Edwards on that one based on age.
10:48But SGA is really good.
10:49I don't know.
10:49I just don't think, and usually market doesn't really matter in the NBA.
10:55Like, Kevin Durant won an MVP and was super famous playing for the Thunder.
11:00But that's another slight knock.
11:02Like, he's a Canadian playing for Oklahoma City.
11:05So it's not like you're an American playing for LA.
11:07Right.
11:08Or New York even.
11:09Right?
11:09Like, I think those guys would have a better shot at being, like, the true face of the league.
11:13Have I, like, is SGA in a lot of, like, national commercials?
11:16Maybe he is.
11:16I don't even notice.
11:17Well, it's never just him.
11:18It's, like, him and Holmgren and J-Dub.
11:21Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:21They're all, like, T-Mobile spots or whatever those are.
11:24He's, like, he's in a couple ads.
11:25Is he in those Nike ads that have, like, 10 people in them, too?
11:27Maybe.
11:27So, okay.
11:28He doesn't really stand out from the crowd.
11:30No, Edwards is more marketable than him.
11:31Definitely.
11:32He's been in movies.
11:33Tatum's more marketable than him, yeah.
11:34Edwards is a good actor.
11:35Is he?
11:35Yeah, he was in Hustle.
11:36He was, like, the bad guy in Hustle.
11:38The Adam Sandler basketball movie.
11:40Oh, I was thinking Hustle and Float, the Terrence Howard video.
11:42No, he wasn't in that.
11:43Oh, okay.
11:44I was going to say, he would have been, like, six on that.
11:45That was a big year for Terrence Howard.
11:47He was in Crash and Hustle and Float.
11:49That was all in the same year?
11:50Wow.
11:51Now he's doing podcasts with Rogan where he's just doing, like, math equations.
11:54You heard something.
11:55I think we did a Key for Madness on Terrence Howard.
11:58Not with me.
11:58He has a lot to say about a lot of things.
12:00And I guess people have looked into it.
12:02Not sure how factually correct a lot of it is.
12:05Well, you know.
12:05Pretty sure he says he remembers being born.
12:07Yeah, that's right, Bill.
12:08Oh, I've seen that.
12:09And isn't he in a lot of, like, equations?
12:10And he'll be like, we're in a room right now.
12:13Room starts with the letter R.
12:14Rich starts with the letter R.
12:16And then he'll be like, that over there is red, also with the letter R.
12:18And you're like, okay.
12:19Yeah, his mind is Zach Galifianakis in Hangover.
12:22It is.
12:22He's playing Blackjack.
12:23Yeah, it definitely is.
12:23And you're like, I don't know if any of that is right.
12:25All right.
12:26I've got to be honest.
12:27If you remember being born, I feel bad for it.
12:30He's never the same.
12:31Watch your father pass out.
12:33What a wild scene.
12:35It's freezing out here.
12:36Yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:36Let me back in.
12:38Yeah, I got it.
12:38That's not a memory.
12:40No, I would want.
12:40I'm for sure glad I forgot that.
12:43Most people forget that for a reason.
12:47Oh, yeah.
12:47I think you have to.
12:48But Anthony Edwards, great actor.
12:49Anthony Edwards, though, good actor.
12:51I think it's a better chance of being sort of the face.
12:53But I think what we're seeing is the league, super talented.
12:56There's guys all over the place.
12:57You look at like Halliburton, like the run that he's on, Brunson.
13:02Even guys that got knocked out in the last round aren't old.
13:05Tatum, Brown, Donovan Mitchell.
13:06Like there's still a bunch of guys.
13:08And some of the old guys are still kind of hanging on.
13:11It felt like this is a year, like a passing of the torch type of year.
13:13But also, I wonder if we get into this pattern where guys don't win back to back.
13:21Because don't you think when you look at like true faces of the leagues in the last 25 years, it's guys that are in the finals all the time.
13:28Yeah.
13:28It's like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq.
13:29Like, you know, Duncan would have been, I think, if he had more of a personality.
13:35But like, yeah, Kobe, LeBron, Curry, all those guys.
13:38It's easier to do that than, hey, made the finals one year, bounced in the second round, bounced in the second round, maybe back to the finals.
13:45So I think with Oklahoma City, it might be one of those.
13:48Not only is SGA going to be in that territory, but the Thunder themselves, I know they haven't won it yet, but they're going to be looked at kind of like the Celtics next year.
13:56Going into next year, you're going to be like, you guys are super young.
13:58Like, you better repeat.
13:59And then if they don't, they're having the same conversation.
14:02I want to tell you right now, I mean, I don't know that we need to have this discussion yet, but you can make an argument.
14:07The Thunder this year are more dominant than the Celtics a year ago.
14:09I mean, they're scoring differential, they're win total.
14:11They're definitely facing healthy teams and a tougher road in the postseason.
14:15Like, I think what the Thunder are doing, if they win, is going to be more impressive than what the Celtics did last year.
14:19Yeah.
14:19And it's going to be a one-for-one trade-off in titles.
14:22Oh, yeah.
14:22They won more games this year than the 08 Celtics did.
14:25Yeah, what?
14:25They finished 68?
14:2668 wins.
14:27One more.
14:28No, two.
14:30No, I'm saying they needed one more.
14:31Oh, it would have been nice.
14:32It would have been almost nice.
14:33Yeah, two more would have been, I mean, a very rare club.
14:36Yeah, just two teams, right?
14:37One more would have been nice.
14:38But, yeah, but I'm saying, like, that's a team that, yeah, I would sit there and go, yeah, the Celtics won off title.
14:43The OKC won off title.
14:45OKC was more impressive.
14:46Can Tatum get back into this discussion?
14:49Because he's not, he's never really been in.
14:52I think we try to have it in Boston.
14:54I don't think he's ever really a part of the, is Jason Tatum the face of the league?
14:59He's in a weird, oh.
15:00So he's truly never been in the MVP discussion.
15:03This tied for the closest he's been.
15:05Fourth.
15:05He was fourth, and he was a distant fourth, right?
15:08Like, the third place votes broke down 88 for Giannis, 11 for Tatum, 1 for Mitchell.
15:14Yeah.
15:14So he's closer to Mitchell at 5 than he was to Giannis at 3 based on those votes.
15:19I guess the total votes, that's not exactly how it broke down.
15:21No, no, no.
15:22So he was fourth.
15:23So the last four years.
15:24But, like, a distant fourth.
15:25He went sixth, fourth, sixth, fourth.
15:28And they haven't put this out yet.
15:30I think it comes out tomorrow.
15:32But he'll be all NBA first team for four straight years.
15:36Which is nothing to sneeze at.
15:38No.
15:39But he's in, like, a weird territory where he is an automatic first team all NBA guy.
15:43But he's not a true MVP candidate.
15:45Which is a weird kind of, like, spot.
15:48Like, it basically means every year there are three guys that are either better than you or just have a better season than you.
15:53But you're better than the rest of the league.
15:5499.9% of the league, you're better than.
15:57So the question is, like, who knows how he recovers from the injury?
16:01But if you play it out kind of like Durant.
16:04Durant was a couple years older when he got the injury.
16:08And then he came back and he kind of peaked out at second team all NBA.
16:13So if you say, well, you can still do that.
16:15But let's say, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's younger.
16:19Maybe he recovers a little bit better.
16:20Or he has more of a runway for his prime.
16:23I think he can because I'm still hopeful that in 2027, Tatum and Brown are teammates again.
16:31Neither are 30.
16:31And if they have a run and go on a deep playoff run, then I think he's right in the same conversation.
16:39Unless you think, like, SGA wins two or three straight titles, then, like, you really distance yourself.
16:44But, like, the way the league has gone, I certainly wouldn't predict that.
16:47No.
16:48I guess I got to see how the offseason shakes out.
16:51We got to see who even wins the title.
16:52But I probably would be feeling like OKC could win back to back.
16:56But I thought the Celtics could win back to back.
16:57I thought Denver could win back to back.
16:59Because, like, if Edwards loses this round, for example, like, he's a very marketable star and he's very young.
17:05And he's fun to watch.
17:05He's a good sound bite and everything else.
17:08But if they lose in the conference finals again, it's two years in a row.
17:11Yeah.
17:11And then next year, like, if they also don't make the finals, by the time Tatum comes back, Tatum's going to be far more decorated, even with a lost season, than Edwards is.
17:17That's true.
17:18I just, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the highest he ever finishes in the MVP vote.
17:22Well, yeah.
17:23It might be.
17:23And that's not even a, I mean, fourth.
17:25Like, that's not bad.
17:26No.
17:26And so, but I just think people need to wrap their heads around that.
17:30Like, you think he'll be all NBA again?
17:32I think he'll be all NBA, but I would bet against him being first team again.
17:36And if you're not first team, you're not really in the MVP discussion.
17:39You're not first or last.
17:40Well, you're not last, but just you're never really a part of that.
17:44I don't even know that he's ever really truly been a part of the MVP discussion.
17:48Yeah.
17:48Maybe when he's had a hot month here or there where, like, could he win it in, like, February?
17:51But never at the end of the day is he really, truly.
17:54He's never been a finalist.
17:55There are three finalists.
17:56He's never been a finalist.
17:57Right.
17:58I don't think he's ever going to be one.
17:59Never mind winning the MVP.
18:00I don't think he's going to be a finalist.
18:01Yeah, but I kind of felt that way prior to the Achilles injury.
18:06Well, true.
18:06I mean, maybe you did.
18:07We argued with Terp about this.
18:08Terp was like, he's like, Terp thought, you know, eventually with all the team success,
18:11maybe he would get a MVP.
18:13I'm like, I don't think so.
18:15You know, like, I just, I don't, I don't see it happening.
18:18And you know what?
18:19When he comes back and if the team itself isn't as loaded, you actually have a better chance.
18:24Well, that's what I think, too.
18:25Like, if you don't have a bunch of, everybody looks at them as having the best roster,
18:28so you don't get as much credit for the success.
18:30So if he comes back and it's him, Brown, a couple, like, scrubby type guys, and they
18:36still win 60 games, and you might be like, oh, that guy looks more good.
18:40No, that would go longer for the individual, worse for the team, but it would go further
18:44for the individual accolades for sure.