- 13/05/2025
SailGP 2025 / À l'intérieur, je me dis ne tuez pas vos cinq coéquipiers . Un contre un avec Billy Gooderham
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00:00On the outside you try and portray that blind confidence of I got this and then on the inside you're like okay, can't kill my five teammates.
00:10We switched over to a league-owned team last year. Changes inevitably are going to happen.
00:14We were very, very much on the chopping block if we didn't find new ownership.
00:19We finished, what is it, fifth, sixth last year. You know, that's not where we want to be.
00:23We want to be the ones spraying the champagne on the podium at the end of the year.
00:26There's a lot of people over the course of my career and my life who said I would never get to where I am.
00:42Welcome to SailGP one-on-one. I'm Lisa Darmanman and today I'm joined by the Canadian flight controller Billy Goodrum.
00:48Billy, welcome to the podcast.
00:50Thank you for having me. It's not a bad backdrop we have here.
00:53Yeah, it's beautiful. But we are here in Auckland and the big thing in Auckland is that we're going to see the T4s for the first time.
01:00And you're lucky enough to have had a bit of a sneak preview, probably a few more days than everyone else.
01:05What's that learning curve been like?
01:07Yeah, I mean we obviously did a lot of testing in the run-up to this stuff coming on board.
01:12It's a bit different when you're doing testing versus actually putting something around a race course though.
01:18So we're doing a lot of straight line and stop and start and structural testing and waiting to make sure the loads are right and the boat's not going to break into pieces.
01:27So they haven't let you just send it?
01:28No, they haven't let me just sort of dial it up to 11 and send it, barring our speed record run in San Francisco.
01:35But yeah, sort of putting around a race course for the first time here has been interesting.
01:40And you touched on San Fran, obviously you guys got the new speed record.
01:44I think it was 101 kilometres per hour now.
01:470.98.
01:480.98, sorry I said 0.98. That is important.
01:50That is very important.
01:51But when that happened, what was going through your head?
01:54Were you just like hanging on for everything or were you like, I got this guys?
01:58I think on the outside, you try and portray that blind confidence of I got this.
02:04And then on the inside, you're like, okay, can't kill my five teammates.
02:07Can't kill my five teammates.
02:09I mean, well, not literally, but yes, obviously.
02:13When you stop at that speed, it's going to be a big crash.
02:15It's a car crash.
02:16The faster you go, the bigger you crash.
02:17Yeah.
02:18So, I mean, outside you sort of try and portray that, like I said, that blind confidence.
02:21But on the inside, it's a stressful day at the office.
02:24That's for sure.
02:25And I mean, it's pretty hard for all the flight controllers now, obviously coming into a new
02:30race course, flying on foils that they haven't flown on before.
02:34I guess, what's the difference just in sort of layman terms?
02:39Like what are the big things that you need to change as a flight controller?
02:42The sort of the physics of the way the lifting forces work is a lot different.
02:47You don't, with our old L foils, the way they would work, if you got too high, you would slide
02:52sideways basically, and they would give you a bit of a warning when they were about to
02:57let go.
02:58With these ones, when you get too high, you kind of just go into one heck of a nose dive,
03:02rather than the slide sideways.
03:04And because of the way the lifting forces and the physics and all that work, they don't really
03:08give you a warning.
03:09You're sort of, you're good, you're good, you're good.
03:11And then you're really not so good.
03:13Okay.
03:14Be on it before it all goes wrong.
03:15Yeah.
03:16Yeah.
03:17Okay.
03:18So the T foils in a straight line, you got it dialed in.
03:22Now we're going into race course.
03:23How much are you sort of testing it still at this stage in, in racing?
03:28Because you're trying to work it out.
03:29Or have you guys got a few numbers you're trying to hit, um, in terms of the way you,
03:33you set up your new boards?
03:34Yeah.
03:35Well, I think there's sort of two mindsets is that, you know, when you're doing the racing,
03:38you're always still trying to get better.
03:40Um, but you, the way we kind of approach it is that we have a sort of a group of settings
03:45that is not easy, but for, for lack of argument here, easy and repeat, simpler than it could
03:51be, simpler than it could be sort of a more repeatable or maybe a bit more of a, um, just
03:56something that, you know, you're going to be able to achieve a base level, a base level.
04:00And then, and then obviously at times when it's a low tariff time to try to push the boat,
04:05we'll, um, we'll try and push the boat to try and take that next step up and, and sort
04:09of try and make sure that we're always innovating.
04:12Now I'm putting a lot of pressure on the flight controllers, but also when you changing the
04:15forces on a boat with a T foil, which is, is changing the forces, like you were saying,
04:20how much is that putting the pressure on like a driver to, to change their driving style?
04:25Is there anything in that?
04:26Yeah.
04:27So obviously with the new T foils, the, the leeway number.
04:29So whether the boat's sliding sideways downwind or getting driven to windward upwind, that number
04:34fluctuates and changes a lot.
04:36And so every time that number changes, the driver has to make a big turn in one direction
04:41or another to actually keep the boat tracking in a straight line.
04:44Um, with our old foils, that number was always a positive number.
04:47So you're always sliding a little bit.
04:49So it's, it's more of a static, a static offset.
04:53Um, whereas with these new foils, that number jumps around from positive to negative to zero to positive
04:59and negative and does that really quickly.
05:01So it's, it's, it makes it that teamwork factor of it, of everybody clued, clued in and know what's going on.
05:08Um, so that everybody's on the same page.
05:10So that puts a premium on that.
05:11Now I'm going to try describe leeway to our listeners in a really interesting way.
05:16And so when we're sliding sideways with a T foil, it's basically if you were slipping over and you put your arm against the wall to stop you sliding sideways.
05:24So the T foil is able to basically act as a barrier and therefore, um, kind of keep you more on track, I guess, than, than the old style boards.
05:33Yeah. The way I describe it is if you're, if you're driving a race car and you're, you're going around a corner leeway is when you lose all grip and start sliding towards the wall.
05:41Yeah. That sounds way better than what I said. So yeah.
05:43That's why you're here to explain it to us. Okay. So it's going to be interesting to watch.
05:49I mean, when everyone's listening to us, we would have seen how Auckland plays out, but do you have an advantage going into this weekend?
05:56Uh, I mean, everybody else says yes. Um, obviously they're going to complain a little bit, but I think, like I said earlier is that, you know, we did a lot of, we're doing a lot of structural testing just to make sure all the structures are right.
06:08So that we're not breaking foils and breaking boats. Um, we're doing just a lot of the, a testing day is way different than an actual sailing day.
06:16Like, you know, you know, you're, you're sailing in straight lines. When you have to maneuver, you stop, you put the boat down, you maneuver. Um, and so we haven't really had a huge opportunity to put the boat around the race course.
06:27And so much of what our racing is, is how you get that boat around the race course. The person who's maybe the fastest top speed all day long, isn't going to be the person who finishes the race first.
06:38It's the person who can consistently put a good product on the water around a race course. And I think in that respect that we're in the same boat as the rest of the teams here where we're putting the boat around the race course on this package for the first time here in Auckland.
06:49So it's a, as far as I'm concerned, it's a level playing field. Nice. And maneuvers always a difficult part of, of, uh, taming an F-50. How did the maneuvers go with T-foilers?
06:59It looks like right now people are struggling. Yeah. So obviously we have, um, we have an added, uh, control function within the, the cant of the dagger board.
07:07So how far underneath the boat, the board is, or how far outboard it is. Um, so that adds another sort of area of complexity, which is, which is a hugely adjustable and hugely variable.
07:18Um, within a maneuver. And how are you adjusting that?
07:22So we have, uh, we've changed the button mapping on our controllers, uh, to be able to have a cant function on there.
07:27So we have our, we have our, our, our, our two wheels, which do our dagger board rakes.
07:31And then we have our rudder buttons, but then we also have cant functionality to be able to adjust that for both side dagger boards now.
07:36So there's, um, there's plenty going on. There's no shortage of, there's about, there's about six buttons to push with two hands.
07:42So, um, good luck. Yeah. Plenty going on, but, but it helped the cant helps in the maneuvers.
07:47Yeah. So you can either you with the cant, you can, you can make it so that it has a more lifting force, but a higher, a lower top speed or less lifting force and a higher top speed.
07:57So when you're in the maneuvers, you're maybe not trying to hit that top speed.
08:00You just want to make sure you're making a repeatable maneuver.
08:02So you're pulling the can under the boat to give yourself lots of lift and make sure you give yourself a bit of room for air.
08:08And then when you're putting it up to 11 and you're going in a straight line, you pump her out and see what happens.
08:14And has it, has it changed anything else about the style you're sailing?
08:17Are you sailing higher out of the water, lower in the water?
08:20Is the pitch the same or is it basically the same boat just with a few extra functions?
08:24Yeah. I mean, it's, it adds in a variable into the equation. So it makes the boat, you know, when you solve a math equation for two variables, it's not that hard.
08:34But when you're solving a math equation for four variables, you need a whole notebook to try and solve the equation.
08:38So adding in that extra variable makes the equation harder to solve.
08:42But I think it's, it's one of those things where, you know, it's a step in the right direction.
08:47It is, it is, there's a lot of boat that's the same that the fans love, you know, they're fast, they go, you're high out of the water.
08:54You still want to be high out of the water because you want to reduce your wetted surface.
08:57Your favourite?
08:58Yes, my favourite. Mr. Fast and Loose, as you called me.
09:01But, but, but then it adds in that variable that, that adds that level of complexity that, that makes it that, that better of an entertainment product.
09:09There's sort of more room to go wrong that, that, that'll make those highlight reels.
09:13Yeah, we love the highlight reels. We definitely live for the drama here.
09:16I do at least.
09:18Um, I guess the other thing is, do you think it will level the playing field in general?
09:23Like all flight controllers and, and all teams have something new to learn.
09:27So it might bring people up or bring people down, or is it, it's going to be about who learns faster, who is able to kind of take in all the data?
09:35Or is it just, we don't know until you start racing?
09:39Yeah. I mean, there's a little bit of, you don't know until you start racing, but I think your point of who's ever to learn the fastest will, um, will probably have a good shot at it.
09:48Um, it is, you know, there's some of the guys who've come from the cup and stuff like that.
09:53They have experience with T foil. So there's, there's an advantage there for those guys who've gone off and worked in that side of the world.
09:58Um, but I think, yeah, I mean, hard to say, I think it's going to be who learns the fastest and who's willing to try stuff.
10:06And, and, you know, with all the data being shared that we have now, it's, it's one of those things that if one guy's onto something, we're all going to be on it like white on rice.
10:15So, yeah. Um, speaking about learning fast, you came into sail GP and, and, and learned pretty quickly as a flight controller.
10:21Um, I don't know how much everyone knows about your, your sailing journey beforehand, but maybe give us kind of, um, the highlight reel of, of what, what got you to sail GP.
10:30And then we can talk about your journey here.
10:31Oh, it's a, it's an odd road. That's for sure. Um, no, I was, uh, grew up sailing in Canada. Um, I was probably on a boat before I could walk or remember. Um, I sort of sailing is one of the things that runs in my family. And I just sort of followed in that footsteps. I was, uh, lucky enough to be on the Canadian youth national team, as well as the Canadian national team for, uh, for a period of time.
10:54I sold 49ers for four years. Um, and then from there, I sort of, uh, decided to try and take a kick at it and make a career out of it and moved into professional sailing. Um, and one of the things I was really lucky that I got to do was I, I worked for a little America's cup team, which is a C-class catamaran, which a, a lot of the technology that we have, uh, and the, in our fifties is, is an evolution of what was started within that class.
11:20Um, so for me coming into sailing and at 50, all the control systems and all that stuff was new, but I all already had that sort of base knowledge on the physics and the design of what, and why things did what they did and how they did that.
11:32So for me learning and coming in as a flight controller, I was just having to learn the control systems and how far I could push it before it was going to bite me back.
11:40I wasn't having to try and download and understand all the design and the physics behind it.
11:44Yeah. I guess that's the thing like sailing is there's so many different elements to it.
11:48Obviously we would, we already chatted about it, but like just getting around the racetrack, trying to pick a good path, trying to beat other boats around a gate and then just the physics of the sail and the foil.
11:57So that's, that's a pretty cool, cool that you had that background, but what was it like when you, we stepped on an F-50 for the first time, obviously it would have been pretty cool to, to get that call up.
12:08Yeah. You're like, you're, you're, you're a kid in a candy store or a kid on Christmas. You're standing on this massive piece of engineering and machinery and design.
12:17And, and the boats are so loud and they're so fast. And, and the first time we'd done a lot of, uh, actually we did a lot of simulator work.
12:23So there was, we'd been in the simulator, we'd been doing a lot of work on that stuff and you kind of had an idea of what you were doing.
12:29But then the first time you do it for real and the boat just, yeah, you're like, you know, I'm not going to be able to do this. Um, but then you just sort of, for me being the flight controller, you put the boat up in the, in the air and you can feel the wind and you like, you're going so fast that the wind physically like hits you and you have to brace your body and just all the, the feelings and the shunting and the everything it's, it's, it's an indescribable feeling.
12:52I think it's a, it's amazing to, to watch your journey at SailGP. I think it's super cool to have someone like you that you're obviously just enjoying every moment you're out there, obviously, um, pushing the limit of what you can do, but do you have fun out there every time? Do you get frustrated? Um, what's it like your team seems like a pretty nice team to be involved in?
13:10Yeah. I mean, like anybody who is at the pointy end of anything, you always want to make sure you go win and you know, some days I have a better day than others. And when I don't do as well as I feel like I can personally,
13:22I get a bit frustrated with myself, but our team, you know, I've been with the team the, the entire time. Uh, I think I'm the only person who sailed every single race for the team now. Um, so I'm the last one standing here from the original group, but OG Billy, OG me. Yeah. I'm not the new kid anymore. Um, but our, our team is, you know, we're a team, we're coworkers, we're all this stuff, but we're very much a family and we have that, that sort of family vibe to our team. Um, and that makes it an amazing place to, to work.
13:50But then also, you know, if you told, I don't know, 14, 15 year old me that in 20 years, you're going to be sailing the coolest boats that go over a hundred kilometers an hour and all these awesome venues all around the world, I would have told you, you were like that. No way. Like you're dreaming. That's never going to happen. So I'm, I'm very blessed that I basically get to live 14 year old me's dream.
14:11Um, I mean, it's an amazing team, but obviously you've had new ownership this year that that's always going to change things. And, and you've got a new driver as well, which the, the dynamic would be a bit different as, as well. I imagine.
14:23Yeah. I mean, I think it's one of those things that within any organization things evolve. Um, we'd been, uh, pretty static with our team members for our first two seasons. Um, obviously in the first year we were a privately owned team.
14:35And then there was some issues with the funding on that side of stuff. And we, we switched over to a legal team last year. Um, and then we were very, very much on the chopping block if we didn't find new ownership. Um, and then we had a gentleman by the name of Dr. Greg Bailey, who came in and who took a shining to SailGP and, and, you know, all the objectives of what he's trying to achieve in the business world and in his personal life sort of aligned really well with SailGP.
15:00So, um, Dr. Bailey, uh, purchased the now Northstar SailGP team. Um, but obviously with new ownership and, uh, there's going to be changes. Um, we finished, what is it? Fifth, sixth last year. You know, that's not where we want to be. We want to be the ones spraying the champagne on the podium at the end of the year. Um, and changes inevitably are going to happen. Um, so we, uh, we lost, we lost Phil, but, uh, we, we gained Giles. Um, he's an okay sailor. Yeah. He's an okay sailor.
15:28You don't get two Olympic gold medals by, by, by, uh, being a slouch.
15:32Well, what does he bring to the team? Obviously, um, he's, he's a pretty calm, calm character. Um, but you also has to have that like insane competitive spirit to, to achieve what he's achieved. Um, what happens behind closed doors or on the race course that we don't always hear?
15:46Yeah. I mean, it's, he's, he's harder to read than, than Phil was. Phil obviously wore, sort of like wore everything on his shirt sleeve.
15:53You knew what he was thinking.
15:54You knew what he was thinking. There was never any short, he was never short on telling you what he was thinking, especially Craig Mitchell, especially Craig Mitchell.
16:00And a lot of the time me too. Um, but I think there's with that calm and, and, and coolness that Giles brings to the table.
16:07There's, um, it, it, it allows those, what I would call the big moments that we would have had last season where we got ourselves into trouble.
16:14Um, not only on the race course, but on the season leader, leaderboard. Um, it may be, it may be curtails a little bit of that.
16:20Um, but then in there, you know, he does have that, that killer spirit. Um, like when it's, when it's time to go, it's time to go.
16:28And he knows that, and he puts his foot on the gas. Um, so there's, there's, there's, uh, yeah, it's different.
16:34Um, but, but, but yeah, it, it, it, it's been, it's been interesting. It's been a bit of a change for me, obviously, uh, with Phil, Phil always tried to micromanage a few things every once in a while.
16:45Um, and, and I sort of got led to where I needed to be. Whereas now in year three for me, I, you know, I'm not new anymore.
16:51Like we said earlier, it's, it's one of those things where I need to sort of take control of, of what I'm doing and lead that rather than being led.
16:58So it's been, uh, it's been a bit of a change for me, but something that will not only sort of for me personally in the progression of my career is, uh, going in the right direction, but, um, but hopefully going in the right direction on the leaderboard too.
17:09Yeah. It's awesome. I mean, Giles is obviously learning as well. He hasn't spent that much time as a, as a driver. He had a couple of races with the Emirates Great Britain team.
17:18So I, it's, I'm sure he's leaning on, on you a lot as well, which is kind of cool.
17:22Yeah, it is. Um, obviously, well, I mean, he, my home event in Halifax last year, he won that one.
17:27Yeah. Um, but it's, it's, like I said, it's a bit of a different dynamic where both myself and CJ are sort of the master of our own destiny.
17:34And then, uh, we sort of do what we want with the boat and then Giles just kind of puts us where we need to be.
17:41Um, so yeah, it's a different dynamic. Um, and just looking forward to making sure that hopefully that dynamic gets to the pointy end of the fleet.
17:48It's so hard here at SailGP now. I think, I mean, the competition is levering, leveling up year after year.
17:54Um, you, you've seen that yourself. Um, but how hard is it actually on a race course when you've got, you know, all those other boats, they're trying to navigate, navigate the marks, trying to fly the boat as well as you can get the most out of the performance.
18:08Like how hard can you articulate how hard the racing is?
18:11Like the best way to describe it for me would be organized chaos. Um, I actually don't see very much of what goes on.
18:18You're laser focused.
18:18Cause I'm head down laser focused on making sure that the boat's the right level of the air.
18:22You need to do your job. Yeah.
18:23And I need to do my job. There's a lot of times when we'll finish a race and if I've, you know, there's a tack or a jibe where I'm like, oh, I could have done that better.
18:29And I'm like, oh, sorry guys. Like that, that's my bad. And then I, they're like, Bill, it's all right.
18:34Like we won the race or like we finished second. I'm like, oh, that was a good one.
18:38Um, so, I mean, I don't actually see a lot, um, and all these beautiful venues that we get to sail in.
18:44I don't, I see the bow of the boat and the water that we're about to go through.
18:49Um, but yeah, no, it is, it's, it's organized chaos, especially now with, uh, with 12 teams on the water.
18:54Um, and the race courses haven't got all that much bigger. Um, but it, it puts a premium on, um, on just like fleet management, course management, making sure that trying to get out of phase, making sure that you're sailing in clean, clean breeze and, and making sure that you're not getting into those one-on-one battles.
19:11Cause when you get into those one-on-one battles, everybody else is just foot on the gas going full throttle.
19:16And you're, you know, you might gain that one spot, but you're going to lose four more to the guys who are chomping at the bit behind you pick your battles.
19:22Yes. Yes. Very much so.
19:24So you've already kind of said it, but with the, the North star SAIL GP team, it's, it's all about making that final in San Fran, or is it all the, sorry, in Abu Dhabi this time?
19:34Um, or is it about being on that top winning, winning overall?
19:38Well, I mean, I think when you look at the format we have here in SAIL GP, it's sort of one race for all the marbles and you can, one, anything can happen in one race.
19:47Um, so it's, I think that the first goal is obviously get into that grand final.
19:52Um, and then just roll the dice and crank it up to 11 and see what happens.
19:56Um, I guess the more you win throughout the season, the more confidence that can give you that if you've got one shot at it, you can steal the win.
20:03Yeah. Well, and hopefully not steal it.
20:05Just, just take it, put, take it and sort of put down what you know how to do.
20:08And, and, and that puts you on the top step.
20:11And what would, what would it mean to you if you guys could actually win this season?
20:14It would definitely be a highlight of my career.
20:16It would be, there's a lot of people over the course of, of my career and my life who said I would never get to where I am.
20:23And so it'd be sort of nice to prove a lot of those people wrong.
20:26Um, but then it would just sort of be a culmination of, of all the work that we've put in for so long here that, that, you know, that we can do this.
20:34And that, that, you know, when you, you work at something or the sport of sailing is such a delayed gratification sport.
20:39You got to work so hard for so long to see the fruits of that labor at some time in the future.
20:44And, and it would sort of be, it would be seeing the fruits of all that labor over, you know, not only the three and a bit years I've been in SailGP now, but the, the sort of decade and a half I've, I've had in my career.
20:56So it would be, mean a lot.
20:59Well, I can't wait to see you keep sending it, sending it to 11 and see how you go.
21:03Thanks so much for chatting.
21:04It's always a pleasure to, to have a yarn with you, Billy, and, um, pick your brain on T-foils and racing and, and all of that and learn a little bit more.
21:12So thanks.
21:13Awesome.
21:13Thank you for having me.
21:14Thanks for tuning in to One on One.
21:16I'm Lisa and I'll see you next time.
21:26I'm Lisa and I'll see you next time.
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