Russia believes 'Georgia should be controlled' by Kremlin

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00:00A fifth night of clashes between police and protesters in Georgia's capital, the Prime

00:04Minister vowing no negotiations with the crowds or the opposition, who are demonstrating against

00:10the ruling party's decision to suspend EU accession talks.

00:14Opposition politicians and the country's pro-EU president are calling for last October's parliamentary

00:19elections to be thrown out.

00:21The Georgian Dream Party has ruled Georgia for more than a decade, recently passing laws

00:26targeting the LGBTQ community and independent media.

00:30It's seen as turning Georgia more towards Russia and away from the West.

00:33Selina Sykes tells us more.

00:38For a fifth night in a row, protesters with EU and Georgian flags gather outside Parliament

00:44in the Georgian capital to demonstrate against the government's decision to postpone talks

00:49on European Union accession.

00:51They accuse the ruling party of aiming to drag Georgia back into Russia's sphere of

00:56influence, even though an overwhelming majority of the population backs joining the 27-country

01:02bloc.

01:03We do deserve to be part of the EU and we will never give up until we get whatever we

01:11want.

01:12Democracy, freedom of speech, social welfare and everything which is related to the European

01:17community is important.

01:20Protesters were once again met by riot police and water cannons on Monday night.

01:24Many Georgians have been shocked by the level of violence directed at demonstrators as well

01:29as journalists.

01:30The country's human rights ombudsman said it mounted to brutality.

01:35Georgia's prime minister, though, blames opposition parties for fuelling what he said were lies

01:39about his government's intentions.

01:41He insists that his Georgian Dream Party is still committed to European integration, despite

01:47not putting the issue on the agenda until the end of 2028.

01:52I had a discussion about European integration with diplomats today at the Ministry of Foreign

01:56Affairs and they were instructed to put maximum efforts into the EU integration process.

02:03An increasing number of public officials don't appear to believe that's the case.

02:07Several top diplomats have resigned, including the ambassador to the US, as well as hundreds

02:12of civil servants.

02:14The government is also locked in a stand-off with its own pro-opposition and pro-EU president,

02:20who has spoken out against what she calls a crackdown on free speech, and has called

02:25for a new vote after parliamentary elections last month, which the opposition has denounced

02:30as rigged.

02:31To take a closer look at the situation, we can speak now to Deputy Dean at the University

02:36of Essex, Natasha Lindstadt.

02:38Thanks so much for joining us and for your time.

02:40I want to start by asking you, do you see the current situation in Georgia?

02:44Is it ultimately a battle between the pro-EU and the pro-Russian sides in the country?

02:51Definitely.

02:52I think this is one of the biggest issues in Georgian politics and you have a variety

02:57of polls that show somewhere between 80 to almost 90 percent of Georgians either partially

03:04support joining the EU or fully support joining the EU.

03:07They believe that moving westward, leaning towards Europe, is going to resolve a lot

03:13of their economic problems that they face.

03:15They face high levels of unemployment and growing levels of poverty, and they are very

03:21frightened of growing Russian influence and believe that the Georgia Dream Party's closeness

03:28or willingness to move closer to Russia poses a threat to them.

03:33In similar polls, you see almost 80 percent of Georgians also oppose Russians having visa-free

03:39travel to Georgia, and they're concerned that there's an influx of not only Russians just

03:46living in Georgia, buying houses, taking over businesses and so forth, but that the ruling

03:54Georgia Dream Party has become a quasi-Russian state.

03:59We are hearing from Georgia's pro-EU president.

04:02She wants now the elections of last October to be annulsing that there was interference,

04:07of course, in those elections.

04:08We saw that pro-Russian Georgian Dream Party win control of the government yet again.

04:15Is there reason, though, to believe that there was interference in those elections?

04:18There was definitely interference.

04:20Russia has been known to interfere in many different countries' elections, but particularly

04:25in its own sphere of influence, it believes that Georgia should be controlled by it.

04:31It interferes in various ways through all kinds of pro-Russian propaganda, but also

04:36trying to sow divisions, casting doubt about the European Union, and supporting an anti-LGBTQ

04:45agenda claiming that Western influence is leading to the destruction of Georgian values.

04:51There's also loads of interference by intimidating voters, by harassing the opposition, harassing

04:58the critical media.

05:00This makes it very difficult for the elections to take place on a fair playing field.

05:05A lot of people are looking at Georgia, and it's reminding them of the situation that

05:10took place in Ukraine, and then, of course, Georgian Dream are saying there's no Maidan

05:13in Georgia.

05:14Do you see similarities?

05:15There are huge similarities, and I think this is why so many Georgians are worried.

05:20There are Russian soldiers that are about 30 miles away from Tbilisi.

05:26If you go to Tbilisi, you can see that there's all kinds of pro-Ukrainian graffiti everywhere,

05:33that they are very much, at least the people, are very much aligned with the Ukrainians,

05:39and feel for them, and are concerned that Russia could invade again.

05:43Russia did invade Georgia in 2008, and so they're worried that this could happen again.

05:49Now, what the Georgia Dream leadership claims is that they are preventing a Russian invasion

05:55and trying to make nice with Russia by not moving too close to the West.

05:59But in my opinion, I think there are more coinciding interests where the Georgia Dream

06:05Party and its sort of shadow leader, Ivanishvili, are more in step with what Russia wants, and

06:15he probably has business interests in Russia that he doesn't want to interrupt.

06:21Of course, the current protests they broke out when the Georgia Dream Party decided to

06:25suspend talks with the EU aimed at accession talks for the country.

06:32Accession talks with the EU, they take a very long time in general.

06:36Is there something maybe Brussels should be doing to try and counterbalance the impact

06:41you're saying Russia has in the country?

06:45Well, they've been trying to through the support of NGOs, and NGOs in Georgia are incredibly

06:52important to providing clear information, to supporting civil society, and to supporting

06:59democracy there.

07:01But with that foreign agent law that was passed, that was obviously modeled after these notorious

07:07Russian foreign agent laws, it makes it impossible for these NGOs to operate because they're

07:11almost completely dependent on foreign funding.

07:16When I had gone to Georgia and interviewed people that were working at NGOs, they were

07:20really reliant on funds that come from the West, and were feeling like they actually

07:26needed more funds, not less.

07:27So this makes it really, really difficult.

07:29Now, I know that the European Parliament recently censured the Georgia Dream Party by saying

07:36that these elections were not free and fair, and the Georgia Dream Party responded, claiming

07:41that they were being blackmailed by the European Union.

07:44So it's very difficult to operate to support Georgia at this point, now that the foreign

07:50agent law has been passed, unless the European Union wants to take harsher steps.

07:55At this point, what they've done is censure the Georgia Dream Party, claim that there's

08:00democratic backsliding taking place, and have denounced and condemned the repression used

08:05on the protesters.

08:06And just before we let you go, can you give us a better understanding of the recent laws

08:10that the Georgia Dream Party passed?

08:13We are hearing that they're taking a much harder stance against civil society.

08:18So these laws, these foreign agent laws, are really a sign of autocratization, that a country

08:24has basically become authoritarian.

08:25They are made in the name of transparency, but it basically states that if you have any

08:31funding coming from a foreign source, that you have to declare yourself a foreign agent,

08:36and then you have to submit yourself to a lot of surveillance, and fill in all kinds

08:43of forms.

08:44And it's very, very difficult to adhere to all of this, and it makes it almost impossible

08:50for these NGOs to actually operate.

08:51Okay, we'll have to leave it there, but thank you so much for your time and bringing us

08:55your insight into the situation.

08:57Natasha Linstad, Deputy Dean at University of Essex.

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