Reclaiming DeFi: How R0AR, Optimism, & Zeeve Are Delivering Real Self-Custody in a Modular Future

zeeve

How do we move beyond wallet dashboards and bring real self-custody to DeFi?  In this explosive panel, Dustin Hedrick (CTO, FierceLabs), Fahim Sachedina (Channel Partnerships, Optimism), and Dr. Ravi Chamria (CEO, Zeeve) break down how R0ARChain, built on the OP Stack, is redefining modular, secure, and production-ready DeFi infrastructure.  📌 Key Takeaways:   🔴Why most of today’s DeFi lacks true self-custody — and how R0AR is flipping the script   🔴Why R0AR selected the OP Stack over Solana, Arbitrum, and Cosmos SDK   🔴How modularity is shifting from buzzword to real-world implementation   🔴The emergence of vertical chains tailored for the executive class of Web3   🔴How Zeeve’s infrastructure stack enables scalable, enterprise-grade chains   🔴The future of liquidity: Will verticalized chains replace shared L2 ecosystems?   🔴Hard-won insights for builders creating modular, self-custodial DeFi systems  👥 Speakers:   ⭐Dustin Hedrick, CTO – FierceLabs / R0ARChain   ⭐Fahim Sachedina, Channel (RaaS) Partnerships – Optimism   ⭐Dr. Ravi Chamria, Co-Founder & CEO – Zeeve

Transcript

00:00can you guys hear me yeah we can hear you wow that took a minute how are y'all good good how

00:15are you much better now that i get to see you cool cool amazing have you met uh talk to five

00:23earlier i don't think so okay okay hey dustin nice to meet you oh my goodness it's it's such a

00:30pleasure i'm so excited to be on with you guys likewise so far him uh leads the channel

00:36partnerships at optimism foundation and we have been working very closely with them for more than

00:41a year now wow so he's our go-to contact for anything related to op stack uh and one thing

00:50you know before uh i started i would definitely like to add that uh one of the distinct uh value

00:57proposition of op stack is their amazing support i think that is unparalleled yeah appreciate you

01:05thank you thank you and dustin amazing to have you building on the op stack as well i'm pumped

01:11for this conversation it'll be fun thank you so much well you know it's my honor to be on with you

01:18folks today i uh i've been in this so long and have enjoyed a lot of different projects done a lot

01:25of work and development in some incredible you know uh systems and ecosystems um but i fell in love

01:32with op stack early on with what i was watching you guys do and just the idea of the super chain and

01:38then you bring our friends at z for incredible partners and it just made so much sense to do this

01:46work we're doing this way with that kind of support rather than roll it out on our own

01:50and have one more piece of a puzzle that we're carrying as we're trying to bring our own dApps

01:55to market so anyway thank you to both of you for having me on and thank you for all that you've done

02:00for us at Roar love it awesome yeah absolutely yep i think let's get started uh again so it will be

02:0725 to 30 minutes kind of format uh so um and i think some of the questions have already been shared but

02:16i'm not typically known for script as we move on you know uh you may change but you have something

02:23which you are already comfortable with so yep so let me get started so hi everyone um welcome to

02:30this special talk show today we are talking about reclaiming defi our role uh part of fierce tech

02:36optimism and zeev are working to deliver real self-custody in a modular future

02:42my name is ravi i'm the co-founder ceo of zeev and today we have a very exciting panel uh we have

02:48dustin hedrick who is the cto of roar blockchain and we have fahim uh who leads the channel partnerships

02:55at optimism foundation and today on the show we'll explore how modular blockchains how op stack

03:01how smart infra choices are helping reshape the future of defi with real self-custody and user

03:08ownership at the center uh so before we get started first you know i would like to uh request and

03:14welcome uh dustin and fahim so uh a bit about yourself and your web3 journey and and how exciting

03:22your web3 journey has been so far so starting with dustin uh over to you

03:26thank you for having me on we're so excited to be a part of this conversation today

03:35and so a little bit about ourselves uh we've been in the development world and blockchain since the

03:42early days of bitcoin and so our team spans around the world we have different decentralized

03:48applications we're building as well as more solutions in the blockchain space that have yet

03:54been discovered i mean we're on the front cutting edge with a lot of different ideas from rwa

03:59to smart wallets ai and chain and so much more and so with that said with our experience our

04:07background and our team um we just knew that this would be a great moment and a great opportunity

04:13to build on an excellent chain and so i'm going to segue into the the next person that's about to be

04:18introduced and say that it's an honor to be on with the op stack team member and uh and grateful to be

04:24here awesome thank you and thanks ravi as well hey everyone uh my name is fahim i am part of the

04:34optimism team i've been part of the team for about a year and a half i specifically look after rass and

04:40kind of infrastructure partnerships so it's awesome to partner with folks like zeev um which we've done

04:45for over a year now and it's amazing to be just on the op journey to try and build a better a better

04:52internet and the way we've done that through our journey is you know we started with op mainnet a

04:57few years ago in order for us to build a roll-up or at least build the optimistic roll-up network

05:04and see that live out through op mainnet and that has done you know incredibly well but our vision is

05:13much bigger than the single chain it is about building a chain of chain ecosystems and the way we're

05:18doing that is through the super chain and having this interconnected network of chains that can talk

05:24to each other that share common standards and even if teams decide not to go down the super chain path

05:31we believe that good solid software should also be free and so that's why we built the op stack

05:37being permissionless open source you know it's mit licensed so that incredible teams can build on top

05:43of the op stack and continue to innovate um in the way that we and various others have over the past

05:50few years so i'm excited especially because um i have been going down the defy rabbit hole for about 12

05:57months and a lot of my role now is talking to defy focused teams and so i'm excited to be on with

06:03uh dustin and the raw chain team and uh be part of the conversation

06:07absolutely i think uh thanks dustin and thanks for him for joining us we are super super excited to

06:15have you here so dustin uh starting with the uh the raw blockchain so you have described web3 as a

06:23wild west which is something full of chaos there have been excellent projects amazing innovations but at

06:31the same time a lot of challenges with failed promises uh especially when we talk about risk on

06:37on on terms of you know uh wallets so uh when we talk about defy i think self-custody becomes super

06:44super important so what what motivated you to build role and how does it restore confidence for users

06:49uh who have faced challenges so the first thing i want to say is i never want to speak negatively

06:56about another project out there um there's so many great projects in the web3 space and i've been

07:03involved in so many of them i love them we've tested and built and developed using different chains we

07:09forked chains we developed a lot so when i when i speak to this i speak as someone that's had a lot of

07:15experience and a lot of projects and i will only speak positively to the fact that i've learned so much

07:21and in those experiences just like so many of us i have had a lot of successes and even more not

07:29successes so if you've done this for any length of time if you go back as long as i have you've

07:36probably not just made some income or you've gotten some assets to grow but you've probably lost a lot

07:42too so on those experiences of losing a lot we have learned a lot and if there's a negative thing in

07:50your life that happens i challenge you to turn that negative into a positive by learning from it

07:54and so as long as a failure is educational it's valuable and we've had so many failures in this

08:01space in a good way i've lost a lot i've experienced a lot i've been a part of rug pulls that i've been

08:06rug pulled on i've been a part of losing um funds in projects that have gone live and then the team

08:14disappears and it's not really a rug pull it's just that it dies out i've been a part of projects that

08:18lost momentum and so um from the investor side from you know the developer side and so now being

08:25a leader in a team and a lead developer what we decided is very early on we wanted to protect as

08:31many people as possible from that wild wild west experience and so the first thing is in our minds

08:39that makes sense is self-sovereignty and so when it comes to self-sovereignty folks have got to be

08:44able to keep their keys their wallet their chain and their hands and so when we do that we really

08:51do keep the finance decentralized which is the hub or core of d5 decentralized finance and we keep the

08:59power in the hands of the users now to do that we have to do a lot of things to create more security

09:05and more boundaries in this space up until now it's been very dev heavy and so it's hard for newbies

09:13to get in new users to experience this and not have loss and so as we have approached our entire

09:20ecosystem every module every piece every part you hear about we've looked at it from two perspectives

09:25the devs that we want to be involved and we want to give an incredible experience to or software kits

09:32and whatnot that they can build on and solutions that make it easy for them to develop however at

09:38the same time we've got these new users over here and we want to protect them we want to make sure

09:43that they have security that they have self-sovereignty that the rails are in place so that even as they get

09:49involved they make less mistakes than we did and they can build on the lessons we learned that we paid

09:56dearly for so that they don't have to pay dearly for it this time so that methodology is built into

10:02everything we do how do we get the next one billion users on chain safely how do we do it in a way

10:08where even governments and governance outside of us want us around and say that we are in an

10:15institutional level of defy that's trustworthy and that's safe and sovereign and then how do we keep

10:23that self-sovereignty and how do we do things in such a way where we're attempting to keep the privacy

10:30intact of our users especially for those newbies and so that's what we're doing we're approaching

10:35that from each perspective on everything we build oh yeah i think uh uh this is an absolutely amazing

10:43vision because uh uh we all know that you know the user adoption is still very very minimal in the

10:51web3 space and as you rightly said we need to have billion users and for that to uh for that purpose we

10:56need to have higher security more comfort while using decentralized wallets and at the same time

11:02you know compliances if you want to bring in enterprises massively into this ecosystem and we

11:07are seeing we are seeing in last two years there has been a a massive change a lot of enterprises are

11:13looking at web3 building in various domains we have customers across supply chain banking telecom

11:19so i think uh uh you are absolutely right until unless we have the right tool sets right vision

11:25right execution um achieving a billion user base and a lot of enterprise adoption would be very very

11:33difficult so uh uh as a follow-up dustin you know any such vision uh and and and i'm assuming that

11:42you know launching your custom chain um becomes very very important because that way you can control

11:47the narrative and you can build pieces implement pieces which are important to realize this vision

11:54um and today there are various ways of launching your custom l2 right you opted for uh for road

12:02chain you opted modular l2 on op stack so what specific challenges or need uh made this architecture

12:09the right choice for you well we did we did use a lot of other projects in our early days we did a lot

12:16of self-discovery and development ourselves before we came to zeve our choice in going with zeve which

12:22i'm going to brag on you guys for a minute i know you're not putting yourself out there yet but i do

12:26want to because you're incredible um our choice for working with zeve in the first place is because we

12:31knew in order to scale at the level we want to to bring the user base we want with our our data set

12:38in our systems and you know what we have to offer we needed to do what we're doing with a partner

12:44that could scale with us and who could work with us in that process bring it to market in such a way

12:49where we could support the users and not allow things to fail in the process i mean if you're doing

12:55what we're doing we've got eyes across an entire board of solutions and we're bringing things end to

13:01end from a wallet to platforms all the way into this chain and more including heading towards rwa

13:09with that kind of view you need the right partners to be able to support the infrastructure and the

13:16support of that infrastructure that's you guys so we we figured that piece out as we're doing the

13:21process of going through what chain we want to use or what we want to fork from and we tried

13:26a number of chains and ecosystems we we loved them there there are three that really came close

13:32to what we wanted but as far as op goes optimism literally had another piece of the pie that i think

13:41is being underrated at the moment and that is they're building an incredible series of partnerships

13:48and networks so we're talking about a new kind of internet we're talking about web3 a new

13:55kind of space that has everything from finances to creative and you're talking about a new kind of

14:02relationships i think everything is being rewritten right now and the teams that are thinking the most

14:09creatively on partnerships and unity are going to get there faster um i heard a i heard a founding

14:17father say years ago that uh if we all stand independently we will surely we will surely all hang

14:24independently as well so i got that a little wrong but pretty much the premise is this it's in this

14:30space in the wild wild west in this pioneering era the more we unify the better off we're going to be

14:37together so op has that ingredient not just the fact they have incredible software not just the fact

14:44they have an answer to something that's been a question in layer twos as well as how to work with

14:49ethereum well in this next era i mean you can look at different solutions there's the optimistic roll

14:54up or zk you can look at different things but they've got a solution they've got the super chain

14:59the network of relationships and they're working on making things such as tokens interchangeable

15:06cross networks as if it's one chain so for us it really dials down to these few things and i'm

15:14going to put a bow on it for you number one the right partner that can support the infrastructure

15:18and the user base we're bringing the right partner that has the right software that can give the

15:23opportunity for a chain like ours to do what we're doing all the way to rwa real world assets on chain

15:29inside of tokenization that can be easily adopted across chains with some really incredible partners

15:36already on their list that i won't name here i will leave that for the op team to leak but it's already

15:42out there some big names in the chains are already with the op team it just makes sense to be in that

15:48world be a part of that super chain be a part of that future of internet

15:53no i think uh you have put it very nicely uh for any such vision you do require a solid foundation

16:02which i think op stack with its architecture with its support system with its ecosystem

16:06is is providing and then you do require a implementation partner who can take care of

16:12the scalable infrastructure and on top of that you know having a very solid layer where you build

16:17uh d5 applications onboarding users making ux ui very very simple so that more and more users can

16:25come in and at the same time having necessary security compliances etc i think this is uh very lovely

16:31so uh uh for him uh i think uh you have heard uh dustin talk about why they chose op stack now from a

16:41from a foundation's perspective uh how does op stack empower builders like role to maintain flexibility

16:48while at the same time benefiting from the shared infrastructure and security of ethereum

16:53yeah it's an awesome question and firstly just plus a thousand to everything dustin said uh that was

17:00awesome to hear as well and very humbling to hear about the impact the wide impact that the op stack

17:05has had um as well as kind of the evaluation across different other stacks as well which we also love

17:12because we need to have multiple different stacks competitive stacks that also focus on different

17:18strategies and areas of focus in order for us to deliver on this internet level vision that we're

17:25all trying to achieve within this industry so i think that's awesome that the op stack was was chosen

17:32but as well as that there are so many other benefits that we see that other ecosystems are also bringing

17:37i think it's one whereby we have this level of focus around the open sourceness and being able to have

17:45and create this kind of user owned internet in order to do that we really believe in decentralization

17:51as a pillar and decentralization is ownership now if we believe that then there has to be this strong

17:58and intense level like probably like extreme obsession level ethereum level of alignment now that's not to

18:06say that everything should be tied to ethereum but i think there's definitely one whereby that is the

18:10foundation and the bedrock which we are building off the op stack doesn't really exist

18:14optimism doesn't exist our role doesn't exist without ethereum and the progress that ethereum has made

18:22over a number of years so i think one of the biggest areas when it comes to flexibility is being able to

18:28customize on the op stack so having essentially a much more modular design the way we built the op stack

18:36is that it's built on minimal diff meaning that we just have the shortest line the shortest number of

18:42lines of code in order to launch a chain and be able to um be able to run your infrastructure

18:49so by having that really really strong focus on less code it means that it's a lot less it's a lot

18:56easier it's a lot less complex it's not as bloated to run this type of infrastructure in comparison to

19:02another the second part is that it's incredibly modular if we think about our roadmap over the next 12 to 18

19:08months we think about you know we would love to i'd love to say that we're going to bring you know

19:13a multi-proof future and i'm really gunning for it i would love for us to have you know fault proofs

19:19and zk and various others it might take a little bit longer across that because there's so many

19:24different components and systems that we're trying to make to communicate and work together but that's

19:30really the goal is that it's so modular that teams can then add different proof systems they can add

19:35different data availability options they can add you know custom gas tokens whatever it is that teams

19:41are looking to looking to do you still can benefit from the vertical scaling approach even though with

19:47the super chain our primary focus from day one is this horizontal focus so we want to build this

19:52horizontal network of chains um while ensuring that teams don't have to make any cost or scalability

19:58trade-offs and so that's really the vision that we see coming out through native interop which is

20:03you know which we're aiming to release later this year and that will be an exciting milestone as a

20:10starting point and there was a lot more to go from there um as well so to kind of kind of button it up

20:16in a bow and to use dustin's word there it's one where we think about the level of customization that

20:21you can have on the op stack um it's the fact that it is incredibly modular it's also the fact that any

20:28team can just build on top of the infrastructure in the way that they want so it's permissionless in

20:35that manner teams can play around they can try different things they can push the boundaries and

20:39challenge the boundaries which is what we want as an industry but especially on good hardened software

20:43and it's incredibly battle tested as well so many teams dustin had alluded to are using it whether it

20:48be you know centralized exchange teams who realize the importance of on-chain competitiveness and on-chain

20:55value and are building their own chains to you know really really large teams like web 2 teams like

21:00sony for example who are who have built their own kind of entertainment and ip chain um using the op

21:07stack and joining the super chain as well so really building this interconnected network of people and

21:13teams who are all trying to realize this vision of building this this kind of internet-based or this

21:20permissionless based um computer and we're doing that through through the op stack which is incredibly

21:25exciting absolutely i think uh um every builder who plans on launching their own chain

21:32knows about op stack and i think fahim you have covered some excellent points uh especially on the

21:38maturity side which uh i i can say that i think op stack is the most mature stack um it has been battle

21:47tested and and it's very lean stack to implement very easy to work with and with an excellent product

21:53support team i think uh it makes it super super easy to work with op stack and then super chain vision

21:59i think is something uh um something uh pretty great you know uh connecting because we have seen

22:05interoperability has been the biggest challenge in last three four years and the super chain vision

22:11we're connecting all the chains built using op stack i think uh uh is very fundamental uh to the overall

22:18overall uh network ecosystem effect that that we are going to see or we are already seeing in the

22:24ecosystem so uh uh dustin now a bit talking about uh um the user ownership so we see that role is a is a

22:35pretty large defy ecosystem platform you know bringing together trading tools nfts ai tau and all powered

22:43by your own l2 so how does uh this interconnectedness of this stack empower users beyond just you know

22:50transactions or trading

22:52so for us it it really does empower users um

23:01one thing i want to say before i jump in that i just i want to say this i get so excited being on

23:08with uh developers and with folks with the ecosystem and the thing i love before i answer that question

23:14is i don't know if you guys noticed but there's always an honoring of all those that gone before us

23:20in this conversation and so hearing someone from the op team give credit back to ethereum is super

23:28important to me i mean i love this and so i want to say that first and so um for us we we we launched

23:37the roar chain not just wanting a tech stack we wanted a direction and so again i'm not i'm not

23:45taking away from any other project but i'll talk about other projects just in our thinking and so it

23:51just helps you frame where we came from other people may have a different perspective and i value

23:56other folks perspective i am never here to argue what is best i'm here to outperform what we've

24:02done in the past so i always want the better version of roar that's what i'm after and so there's things

24:08that we thought through when we did this so solana is fast we love solana it's fast i've done some

24:14fun stuff over there that's been incredible cosmos is modular and our vitrum is very efficient my

24:20goodness i love how you can get stuff done on our vitrum i'm just saying these are all great

24:25ecosystem um but op stack gave us something foundational and so ethereum alignment has to

24:35be at an internet scale as we go forward there's been a lot of conversation about ethereum catching up

24:42with the times and the speed and you know being able to handle transactions faster when you've got a

24:48layer one that's really where everything is being settled and i'm trying to speak at not just a 30

24:53000 foot dev level i'm trying to bring this down to the vernacular but when you've got an organization

24:58that really is that settlement layer and then you want to put a layer two on top of it and you want

25:04this to be where the transactions are you need a partner or a platform that's going to allow you to

25:10to go at a faster scale as well as not just be a roll-up framework it's got to become like

25:17a standard for interoperability which is what we're talking about here so i love the op stack it sees

25:24sovereign chains and so let me say this again sovereignty is something i love op team is not

25:30saying you roll out your chain and all of a sudden we own it through you you've got these self-sovereign

25:37chains and you hear even on this conversation you can go whatever direction you need to go

25:41and whether or not you choose to be a part of the super chain that's up to you as a team member or

25:45leader i love that mindset and so you've got this inoperable interoperable opportunity if you want

25:52it with self-sovereign chains that inherit security liquidity and even dev tooling from the largest

25:59smart contract platform in the world ethereum so my friends it just it just made this magic place where

26:06it made sense we chose op stack because it gives us ethereum grade security and compatibility without

26:12sacrificing that sovereignty and that is just i'm just going to put it at the core that's why we've

26:18got this execution layer we've got governance and we've we've got a roadmap we know where we're going

26:22and each sovereign chain has the same yet we inherit all of that security all of that years of ethereum

26:29foundation building um inside of being a part of this team in this project so i could go on i mean

26:36i could brag on this forever you can tell i've spent a lot of time in the dev space i'm a dev and i've

26:42spent time looking in the through the cracks i could go into the eip you know 48 44 and i can go into the

26:49next steps but that's not necessary here at the end of the day you're talking about a dev's perspective

26:53as a leader or co-founder of a organization saying this chain made sense for so many reasons and those

27:01are the core ones absolutely i think you have made a very excellent point uh that op stack is so open

27:09uh that anyone can use it without you know any kind of restriction so i think there's no concept of

27:16vendor locket and uh uh optimism has always tried to bring in new exciting innovations uh to you know

27:25uh bring in builders uh within their fold like super chain is an exciting innovation uh which helps

27:31the builders in a way and i think when when when you you get help of course you know you don't mind

27:37sharing uh help in return right so i think uh you're absolutely right justin i think uh this is

27:43something uh massively and i think the best part about the op stack is that optimism is that they

27:48are the front runners they were the first one to launch this concept of having an open stack

27:53that anyone can use to uh launch their own uh layer two rollups or layer three rollups

27:59um so yeah uh for him for projects like roar who are who are opting to use op stack uh give us

28:09some ideas to the kind of support they can expect from optimism ecosystem both technically as well as

28:15uh from a community standpoint yeah for sure and just uh quickly adds on to and you know again plus

28:23a thousand i'm just gonna keep saying it so what dustin was saying there as we think about the

28:28modularity and the open sourceness of the op stack i think the biggest thing is that we really want to

28:36allow this vision to come to life whereby these futures can coexist so a future whereby teams with

28:44specialized use cases and decide they want to do some form of customizations it's completely fine

28:50and they maintain their sovereignty they can maintain the sovereignty across application logic

28:57across the user experience they can control those outcomes and control the experience for the users

29:01which i think is beautiful the other thing on top of that is that with and dustin had alluded to

29:08this earlier on is that there is this element of cross-chain interactions through what we call

29:15superchain erc20 tokens which are essentially interoperable tokens that allow you to benefit

29:20from interop native interrupt once it's live so that you can benefit from one block latency and

29:26transfer a token from raw chain to op mainnet once you know interop has been enabled on raw

29:32uh and op mainnet instantly like within one block which i think is really exciting because it kind of

29:37means that each chain can act as kind of a website in that they're unique um and they all use the same

29:44underlying infrastructure these websites all use http and the op stack is trying to build http for the

29:52blockchain ecosystems and that's the way we we foresee and the work that we're doing around that now in

29:58order to support chains as they grow and think about ecosystem support we want to work with chains

30:04hand in hand this is a working partnership and relationship so that we can help chains grow and

30:11be strong ecosystem partners in order to do that we have you know a ton of yes there's a ton of um grant

30:19support through the op grants council there is retro funding um there are campaigns that we ran we just

30:26ran the super stacks campaign which is specifically focused on uh you know defy incentives and defy

30:32activity across the super chain so it encompassed around five to six different chains many different

30:39protocols um all focused on growing interoperable assets and tvl so that's great to be able to bring

30:47these different networks together in order to contribute towards this super chain vision and

30:52growth and progress so kind of participating in ecosystem campaigns to thinking through marketing

30:58through just being just being advisors and partners on this mission together and working hand in hand

31:04is something that we take really seriously and then on top of kind of those gtm and the go-to market

31:09style efforts there is also the ecosystem support that we get from you know strong ras partners like

31:16ziv um when it comes to dealing with technical support questions that come through or you know

31:22general kind of issues that may happen as you as you naturally go through this path of launching a

31:28chain which isn't as easy as launching a website is today but i believe we will get there for sure

31:33and so there is kind of the those additional kind of developer support technical support questions

31:38whether it be through discord through our public github forums and various others

31:42in order to benefit from kind of a good and strong level of support as you build in this ecosystem

31:50nope i think absolutely i think uh builders will be very excited to hear if you know you have

31:57placed together all the different points uh how the ecosystem support is there for the builders for

32:03the users especially you know somebody who's launching into let's say rwe or deepen so support from a

32:10vertical standpoint or or use case standpoint i think becomes very very important especially for

32:15new web3 builders and enterprises who are getting into the web3 space so now uh since we are coming to

32:21the end of our talk show um so as a closing thought dustin uh what's one big learning from launching

32:29your own rollout that you would like to uh share with other founders you know uh who want to start their

32:36journey so guys again i want to i want to speak to the last thing first i'm so sorry but it needs to

32:45be said what fahim's talking about here is so important for security because one of the biggest

32:52breaches we've seen as developers has been in anything bridged across chains so when chains are

32:58bridging your smart contracts are doing certain things your tokens being held in one and then it's

33:03being changed to another and it's being put over onto another chain that's that's fine and dandy until

33:08a bridge is hacked and the underlying tokens are drained and all of a sudden you've got double supply of

33:15some sort and then you see these exploits happening i just want to i just want to say for the newbies out

33:21there the newer folks or even devs that didn't think about that super chain value when you're talking

33:27about native interoperability you're removing one of the pieces that is so important to the wild wild west

33:32and so i'll segue into what you just asked me dr robbie with this um the wild wild west we have

33:39learned so much in this process about how it can be done well so i said at the top of the call

33:47that i've had many challenges over the years ever since i first read the bitcoin white paper and i jumped

33:55in in late 2010 and attempted some things with a wallet with bitcoin so i've been here a while i've

34:01been hiding out a while and then my early days with ethereum and others falling in love with smart

34:07contracting even i did some forking of litecoin and doge back in the day i'm just saying you know it

34:13was fun stuff i've tried a lot of things and as i've fallen into this literal column of the blockchain

34:22and as i've fallen in love with this growing evm compatible space ethereum virtual machine

34:29compatible space i have learned that you want to have the right partners on your team we have been

34:37through exploits we've been through rug pulls we've been through loss we've been through a lot of

34:41different things you want a team that's vetted so find a partner that's vetted find a partner that's

34:45doing the right things to choose the right team members to support you think about infrastructure

34:51first you know begin this thing as stephen covey always used to say with your end in mind so look

34:58at what your end game is and then start building backwards in your development process so we started

35:04with a 10-year plan and now we're finding that in our 10-year plan and our two five-year plan we're

35:11reaching our two and five-year goals very quickly in our first few years because we began with the end

35:18in mind and we started getting the right infrastructure right team members on point and so

35:22having zeve as a partner made it where things could come to market quicker and we could trust they would

35:28be supported well in my mind i want to reduce any of the wild wild west experience and i want to build

35:35the team members they're going to support my community the best way possible and so zeve is

35:40actually finding holes in what we're doing to make sure that the developers have a better experience

35:46and they're saying hey have you thought about hashgraph have you thought about this have you

35:49thought some of these things have crossed my mind others had not and so we're building best of class

35:55because we have a classic amazing partner in zeve and then you add to that op stack and you hear this

36:03humble approach to open sourcing code guys i love that about this space so many getting us here

36:11have allowed us to build on the shoulders of their work and i believe the optimism team is doing it in

36:17a very unique way in that not only can you build on their shoulders and they release everything almost

36:23in real time to you but they're in there helping you get there to do it and saying hey if you love us

36:29and you love our community we're going to make it where you're safer and better in a super chain so

36:34there's this interoperability and we're going to take part in your success so my friends if you

36:39think through your entire process at a 10-year plan and then you build backwards and you start

36:46filling those blanks make sure you add to it a good partner that can support your growth and a good

36:52partner that's going to make sure that you have a long run for whatever you're building on that chain

36:59make sure that chain team has a long-term plan and it benefits you with support all the way there

37:05and that's what ziva and optimism have done for us and i think the dustin it was very very insightful

37:11and thanks for outlining you know what your key takeaways has been or your journey has been while

37:17launching your own custom chain i'm sure quite a few new builders uh who are still going to see a lot

37:24of challenges down the path they will be benefited by some of these insights uh so for him um your closing

37:31thought on on you know what do you want to say to next generation of roller builders

37:36yeah for sure i i you know echo um a lot of what dustin has also said around i think it's we don't

37:46need to make the same mistakes like we don't need to reinvent the wheel and we don't need to rebuild

37:51everything from scratch every single time like i also really appreciate when teams decide to take

37:57a really first principle thought because they're solving specific problems and so there are certain

38:03things and justifications as to why they need to do that but not everyone needs to do that and nor is

38:08it nor is it needed in order to keep it in this kind of monolithic uh centralized code base where you

38:16control everything you don't you don't modular or like you don't focus on taking modular components

38:21and adding it into the work you're doing because of a specific reason you're trying to build a you know

38:27really novel solution and i think there is merit for that but the majority of teams don't reinvent

38:32the wheel you don't need to and it's one where like you can leverage existing innovations in order

38:38to run faster you can run faster if you're building on top of solid infra and you're working

38:45with really strong infra partners as well and so that allows you to get to market faster allows you to

38:50get customers faster it allows you to build valuable solutions and test them in market and test specific

38:56hypotheses whereas if you're just building everything from scratch you could just be in a

39:00little basement and a little tunnel and build for two years and then realize that actually that's not

39:06what the market wants so i think being able to have tighter feedback loops and really releasing

39:13things to customers validating things being honest to say whether what you're building is actually unique

39:19and valuable and something that the ecosystem wants and there is a lot of low hanging fruit i mean the ux

39:24needs to come a long way in order for us to attract the next billion users there's a lot of low hanging

39:29fruit but if what you're building isn't resonating with users then you need to have an honest

39:34conversation as to what whether what you're building is really incredibly unique or whether you need to go

39:40in a different direction and figure out what it is that your users really care about and really want

39:45as we think about reducing liquidity fragmentation improving security improving ux and just building

39:51much more novel and better solutions through crypto and through web3 so i really focus on being able

39:56to differentiate your offering and have a differentiated ux and a simple clean ux and those

40:03things sound obvious but they are very underrated in this industry and so there's a lot of low hanging

40:08fruit to go after and working with great infra partners as well and having a bigger purpose and

40:13mission as to what you're trying to do i think that's what drives us and me at op is we're building a big

40:19vision we're building towards this big purpose alongside other people alongside raw chain and

40:25alongside zip and alongside other rast partners and other teams as a whole as we think about chains and

40:31infra partners and various others is there is a really big vision behind this and a really big

40:36level of purpose and so i think that's what drives motivation and the work that we're doing in order to be

40:42intentional about building much better solutions for this industry so in summary i'd say build better

40:47and differentiated user experiences it goes a long way and we have a long way to go in this industry

40:54but excited to continue to attract great builders and you know this space definitely needs more and

40:59more great builders no absolutely i think uh that's amazing way to put it fine uh we do need good

41:07builders we could need uh solid user experiences as we see more and more apps and i think we are there

41:13you know and now now now we see a lot of web3 apps which are very similar to web2 now we have you know

41:19social logins we have keyless architecture gasless transactions you know a lot of innovations have

41:25happened over the last few years and now we are seeing that in action uh things are becoming i know of

41:30quite a few blockchain applications uh in the enterprise space in the government space that are being used

41:36by millions of users but even users don't even know that blockchain is powering the backend of that

41:42application so i think uh uh smartly designing a sound architecture solid user experiences will will

41:49make a hell lot of difference and and i think we are getting there so uh uh thanks dustin thanks

41:56for him for uh joining me on this talk show it has been an incredible journey uh throughout this show

42:01a lot of beautiful insights and i'm sure uh everyone who would be listening to this talk show

42:07would be greatly benefited by these insights so thanks once again for joining us

42:13thank you ravi thank you dustin thank you ravi you guys are great thanks everyone for listening and

42:20keep building keep smiling

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