What is Polkadot JAM? David Hawig dives into the details with Ghan Vashishtha #PolkadotJAM

zeeve

Tune in to an engaging conversation between Ghan Vashishtha, Co-founder & CTO of Zeeve, and David Hawig, Director of Ecosystem Development at Polkadot.  In this podcast episode, Ghan and David take a deep dive into the dynamic world of Polkadot, with a special focus on the groundbreaking JAM upgrade and its far-reaching potential. David offers expert insights into parachains and their critical role in shaping Polkadot’s unique and interoperable ecosystem.  Explore the key advantages that position Polkadot as a leading blockchain platform—including its scalability, seamless interoperability, and forward-thinking governance model.  The discussion also spotlights Zeeve’s robust deployment solution, Perfuse, which streamlines the process of building and managing dApps on Polkadot, making it more accessible for developers of all levels.  Whether you're a seasoned blockchain expert or just stepping into the Web3 space, this podcast is packed with valuable takeaways and a look into the future of decentralized technology.  Don’t miss this insightful journey into the cutting edge of Web3 innovation!

Transcript

00:00Thank you, David, for joining us here.

00:07I mean, it's the outset of Rollup Day.

00:09It's coming and we know that you're coming as well.

00:12And we have Polkadot right here.

00:14And I think we'll be talking a lot about Polkadot today

00:17and what we've been doing with Polkadot.

00:19But I think everybody would love to talk about Polkadot in person with you

00:24when you would be at Denver and specifically when you'd be taking the stage.

00:28And I think it'll be very exciting for everybody to hear what's upcoming in Polkadot.

00:34Of course, a lot of ecosystem players will be along with us there as well.

00:41But yes, Rollup and AppChain Day would be very, very delighted to have you on stage

00:45during the East Denver.

00:47But yes, I think before we get to that, I'll not hold all the excitement only till that day.

00:54So we will definitely talk about what all is happening before you in person

01:00unleash the gems at the Rollup and AppChain Day in the East Denver.

01:05We will definitely talk about today on how things are happening in Polkadot,

01:10how things are reshaping, what is new, which is coming,

01:14what has already come, and how it can change the dynamics of the ecosystem.

01:18You know, I myself have been reading a lot, many posts where, you know,

01:22people are doing a lot of, you know, exciting experiments on Jam

01:27and the recent upgrades which are coming in comparing the throughput

01:30versus what is available out there.

01:32And, you know, the numbers are mind-boggling, you know, which we can see.

01:36But yes, before that, I think, you know, I would request you to introduce yourself

01:40to the audience and then we can, you know, dive deeper.

01:43Yeah, hi, nice to be here and I'm really, really looking forward

01:50to the Rollup event also in Denver.

01:54So, yeah, I'm David, Director of Ecosystem at Web3 Foundation.

01:59I'm working at the foundation since early 2019, mostly responsible for grants.

02:06Now I'm also focused more on bringing more founders and teams again in the ecosystem,

02:11so a little bit the VD side.

02:15Yeah, and I have a technical background and I worked actually on my own startup

02:22before we received different grants from different foundations

02:27before I joined the Web3 Foundation.

02:29And, yeah, I really much enjoy the entire space and what's going on

02:34and the development and, yeah.

02:37And it's fantastic, you know, hearing about the vast background which you come up with.

02:45So, just going, you know, right into the topic of the day,

02:50which is what is happening in the Polkadot ecosystem?

02:54What is Jam all about and what was not possible before,

02:57which is being now made possible with it?

03:00Everybody wants to know about it.

03:02Yeah, so Jam is obviously the hype topic

03:06and it's the next version of Polkadot that will bring this sharded blockchain

03:12to even more throughput and more and more transactions

03:15and make it more programmable, more efficient.

03:20But something to be aware of,

03:23we are also very much focused still on the current version on Polkadot

03:27and there what we try to do is basically integrate all the lessons

03:31that we learned in the last few years.

03:33So, a lot of other ecosystems that only starting now

03:37still are in the process of figuring out.

03:42We already learned a lot of lessons when it comes to the complexity of the tech stack,

03:47making it more easy, doing not too many updates.

03:51So, simple things sometimes,

03:53but that's also something we are very much focused on right now.

04:00Right.

04:01Now, fantastic to hear that.

04:02And, you know, in fact, I remember that, you know,

04:04in the last three, four months or six months, rather say,

04:08you know, I've been to so many events

04:09and every time, you know, we talk about that Zeev

04:10is working very deeply into Polkadot ecosystem

04:13and we offer parachain as a service.

04:15Everybody asked us about,

04:17but what would change after Jam into parachain?

04:20Would you still offer parachains?

04:22So, I think I would want you to answer this question.

04:25Yeah, definitely, definitely.

04:27So, parachains will still exist.

04:30If anything, we will support more stacks

04:34or more services, more ways to integrate into Polkadot.

04:38We want to make this more flexible,

04:40but parachains still exist.

04:43And I would even say that,

04:45yeah, with parachains something,

04:47maybe we shouldn't call them even parachains

04:50because everyone else calls this roll-up

04:52and that's also the roll-up event.

04:54So, Polkadot roll-ups.

04:56But yeah, they are actually a great, great use case

05:01for Polkadot and definitely worth exploring.

05:05And that indeed was, you know,

05:07my next question about, you know,

05:09what's this whole connection with the roll-ups

05:11and Polkadot now?

05:12But I think you already, you know,

05:14added certain directions to it.

05:17So, when, you know,

05:18when a project is looking towards building,

05:21you know, say a DeFi use case

05:22or maybe say, you know,

05:24a typical, you know,

05:26NFC use case

05:27or maybe, you know,

05:29very specific, you know,

05:30app chain use case

05:31and when they look up to the other stacks

05:33and then they look up to the Polkadot today.

05:35So, what kind of, you know,

05:37things you would want to mention

05:39for them to consider

05:40versus, you know,

05:42the whole ecosystem

05:42and Polkadot per se

05:44specifically offering,

05:45you know, some certain benefits?

05:47Yeah.

05:47So, the biggest benefit already

05:49of the current version of Polkadot

05:51and with Jam even more

05:53is that Polkadot

05:55is a fully chartered blockchain

05:57and it's super efficient.

05:59So, we can handle actually

06:01a lot of transactions

06:02and a lot of throughput.

06:05What we didn't do so well in the past

06:09is basically make it very simple

06:11to deploy solutions for teams.

06:14That wasn't our focus.

06:17Now, it is more and more

06:18and we are very excited

06:20about one-click deployment solutions

06:22like Perfuse.

06:24But yeah, the great use case

06:27of Polkadot is actually

06:28if you have some users

06:30and you actually depend on

06:32things like gas costs

06:33and so on,

06:34then you can clearly show

06:36that Polkadot is super cheap.

06:37The core time is super cheap right now.

06:40It's like you can put

06:42all these transactions on chain

06:44and the chain itself

06:46won't even have any issues with it.

06:50The scalability speed,

06:52you know, are the two primary factors,

06:54you know, we believe every project

06:56should look at when they look at Polkadot

06:58as a roll-up solution

07:00or an AppChain solution for them

07:02and comparing, you know,

07:03what we have available out there.

07:05So, it's one of the fastest,

07:06you know, evolving

07:08as well as one of the fastest

07:09existing tech

07:11when it comes to Web3 use cases.

07:13Now, you mentioned Perfuse,

07:15the one-click.

07:16So, we have built it

07:17for, you know,

07:18the ease of use

07:19and not just the deployment

07:20of one-time,

07:21you know,

07:23parachains,

07:23but also regular

07:25day-to-day monitoring

07:26and management.

07:27But if you have to,

07:28say, you know,

07:29talk about the journey

07:30of any use case or project,

07:32we have seen that,

07:33you know,

07:34projects spent about like

07:3560 to 60% of their time

07:37in managing their chains

07:38and, you know,

07:40getting into the day-to-day operations

07:41while, you know,

07:42about like 30-40% time

07:43goes into real development

07:44of their use case

07:45and 10 to 20%,

07:47you know,

07:47battling out the community

07:48ecosystem.

07:50So, how important

07:51do you think,

07:52you know,

07:52having such a tool

07:53is for,

07:54you know,

07:55how important it is

07:57for the projects

07:58to have such a tool in play?

08:00Yeah,

08:00it basically makes it

08:02a lot cheaper

08:03and a lot more efficient

08:04to get started

08:06and to actually get users

08:07on their chain

08:10and so on.

08:11So,

08:11in every other industry,

08:14things like time-to-market

08:16and so on,

08:17they really matter

08:18and tools like this

08:20help with it

08:21and ultimately

08:21help the entire industry.

08:24So,

08:25yeah.

08:26Perfect.

08:27So,

08:27we are already

08:28working on,

08:29you know,

08:29our alignments

08:30with how

08:31Jam is evolving

08:32and how we'll evolve

08:33Perfuse,

08:34you know,

08:35which does deployment

08:36of parachains

08:36as of today

08:37into,

08:37you know,

08:37a tool which can

08:38evolve

08:39with the rapidly

08:40evolving Jam.

08:42Now,

08:43coming to,

08:43you know,

08:44certain questions

08:45about cross-chain

08:46communication.

08:48So,

08:48we talked about parachain,

08:49we talked about

08:50service under Jam,

08:51but when the ecosystem

08:53will evolve,

08:54there would be

08:54hundreds and thousands

08:55of projects

08:56who would be building

08:57on Polkadot

08:57as a service

08:58or maybe,

08:59you know,

08:59parachain under parachain service.

09:01Now,

09:02how these,

09:03how the intercommunication

09:04between these chains

09:05would come into the play?

09:06Would it be very similar

09:07to how it was using

09:08XCMP we have heard of?

09:10Yeah,

09:10yeah,

09:10exactly.

09:11So,

09:11it will be,

09:12it will be similar

09:12to this.

09:14XCMP is just

09:15a messaging format,

09:16basically a standard

09:17that helps to,

09:19to make it easier

09:20to,

09:20to have this

09:21cross-chain

09:22communication.

09:23Yeah.

09:24And this is something

09:26that is very valuable,

09:27I think,

09:28in the,

09:28the,

09:29the blockchain space

09:30to have this

09:31interconnection

09:32between different chains.

09:34And this is ultimately,

09:35I think,

09:36when we,

09:36when we see

09:37Web3 projects

09:38really,

09:39taking off

09:40when there is

09:41this network effect

09:42between different chains.

09:43If you,

09:45we,

09:45we already see this

09:46a little bit,

09:47but in,

09:48in DeFi

09:49specifically,

09:49you have a lot of

09:51network effects

09:52already,

09:53but in other industries,

09:55I think we are just

09:56getting started.

09:57So,

09:57so gaming

09:58or something like this.

09:59And as soon as

10:01you can actually

10:01transfer your assets

10:03from one game

10:04into another

10:04and you,

10:06without even,

10:08even thinking about it,

10:09I think that's,

10:10that's when

10:10the

10:11Web3

10:12space will show

10:14that,

10:15that it's actually

10:16able to outperform

10:18the current,

10:18current

10:19landscape.

10:20also from

10:22user experience

10:24and not only

10:25from a security,

10:26privacy,

10:27and so on.

10:27Things like this,

10:29usually everyone

10:29mentions first,

10:31but when it comes

10:32to users,

10:33they obviously,

10:34they,

10:34they care about

10:35the experience

10:36and that's,

10:36that's where

10:37the value comes from.

10:39No,

10:40that indeed

10:40is a very important

10:41point you talked about.

10:42So,

10:43Web3 has evolved

10:43beyond the point.

10:44Now,

10:45you know,

10:45the technology

10:46is very mature,

10:47we all know that.

10:48So,

10:48you know,

10:48looking at security,

10:49technical prowess

10:50is not the only criteria.

10:52Today,

10:52we should talk about

10:52user experience,

10:53which you have

10:54mentioned

10:55very precisely there.

10:57And,

10:57and the feature,

10:58you know,

10:59which XCMP has brought in,

11:00we believe that

11:01it is going to bring

11:02composability,

11:03interoperability

11:04among all the chains

11:05which are,

11:06you know,

11:06or app chains

11:07which are built under the,

11:08or the role of

11:09which are built under

11:09the Polkadot ecosystem.

11:11But then,

11:12then,

11:12you know,

11:13we ourselves have seen that

11:14it's,

11:15it's,

11:15of course,

11:15it's substrate at its heart,

11:17but then now you have

11:17EVM compatibility

11:18available as well using,

11:20you know,

11:20it has been there

11:21using Frontier

11:22as a template on parachains,

11:23but now,

11:24you know,

11:24you would have

11:25EVM compatibility.

11:26So,

11:26projects can pick and choose.

11:27We are also offering

11:28the same,

11:29you know,

11:29within Perfuse

11:30that they,

11:30while deploying,

11:31can choose if they want EVM,

11:32they want core substrate.

11:34And,

11:34and which means that

11:35going forward,

11:36they can also

11:37integrate some third-party bridges

11:38and have interop

11:39with,

11:40with say,

11:40other projects

11:41like Ethereum,

11:42Avalon,

11:42Shoptimism,

11:43and maybe other EVM chains

11:44as well.

11:45Isn't it,

11:46isn't it right?

11:48Yeah,

11:48that's correct.

11:49And basically,

11:49that's,

11:50that's what we want

11:51to achieve.

11:51so ultimately,

11:52it should be super easy

11:54to get started.

11:55Like if you,

11:56if you want to,

11:57to deploy your

11:58loyalty program

12:01for your fans

12:02or whatever,

12:02your music,

12:03music,

12:04ticket solution

12:05or something like this

12:06on a blockchain,

12:07it should be super easy

12:08and you should be able

12:09to leverage our tech stack

12:10and it should be scalable

12:12when,

12:14when you're,

12:15when your solution grows

12:17and you get more users

12:18and so on.

12:19But on the other hand,

12:20we still,

12:21we still want to keep

12:22all this heterogeneous

12:23chain network

12:27and so on.

12:27So if you actually want

12:29to,

12:29to leverage

12:30something more complex,

12:32you want to

12:33switch the consensus mechanism

12:36or you,

12:37you're thinking about

12:38integrating a storage solution,

12:41a decentralized storage solution

12:42or whatever,

12:43there's the option to do it.

12:45So we are,

12:46we are not removing this part.

12:48We are just making it

12:49easier to get

12:50into our ecosystem,

12:52I would say.

12:53Perfect.

12:54I,

12:54I will not ask everything

12:55as of today

12:56because,

12:56you know,

12:57we are going to be seeing

12:58you in person

12:58during the action

12:59and roll up an action day.

13:00But,

13:01but just to give our audience,

13:03you know,

13:04a quick idea about

13:05what kind of insights

13:06would you be bringing,

13:07you know,

13:07the golden insight

13:08would you be bringing

13:09on the floor?

13:10Yeah,

13:10hopefully,

13:11hopefully more,

13:12more stories

13:13from,

13:14from the Polkadot ecosystems,

13:15the lessons learned

13:16so far.

13:17Basically,

13:18there are a lot,

13:18we,

13:19a lot of teams

13:20are now,

13:21all these roll-ups,

13:22they need to interact

13:22with each other.

13:24There are standardization problems,

13:26there are user experience issues

13:28if you want to get your tokens

13:29from one chain

13:30to the other

13:31and so on.

13:32So that's,

13:33that's something

13:33where,

13:34where I think

13:35Polkadot as a whole

13:36had a lot of lessons

13:38in the past.

13:39We,

13:39we did some things good,

13:41some things

13:42didn't work out

13:43and so on.

13:44So that's,

13:44that's something

13:45I,

13:46I'm happy to share

13:47with,

13:48with everyone

13:49that is there

13:51and talk more about it.

13:53Right.

13:54And that'll be wonderful.

13:55And in fact,

13:56we'll have

13:57a few projects

13:59which are coming down there

14:00and,

14:00and are evaluating

14:01the technology

14:02and,

14:03you know,

14:03using Polkadot

14:04as one of those

14:05framework is on the card

14:07for them.

14:07So I believe

14:08they'll definitely learn

14:09and,

14:10and understand

14:11what is going to happen

14:12and what direction,

14:13you know,

14:13Polkadot ecosystem

14:13is taking.

14:14And this conversation

14:15with you,

14:16you know,

14:17on the panel

14:17at Denver

14:19will help them

14:20decide

14:20and then take

14:21a better choice,

14:22you know,

14:23while,

14:24while going down

14:24the path.

14:25Yeah,

14:26definitely.

14:26And we are,

14:27we are generally

14:28also interested

14:29in supporting

14:29all teams

14:30that,

14:30that want to deploy

14:33something on Polkadot.

14:34As in general,

14:35I would say

14:36the Web3 foundation,

14:37we,

14:39we always

14:39were more

14:40on the safe side

14:41when it comes

14:43to the development

14:44of the techs

14:45and so on,

14:46but we are also

14:47way more active now

14:48and we want to grow

14:49the ecosystem

14:50and help teams

14:51that,

14:52that want to,

14:53to leverage

14:54our tech stack.

14:55Yeah.

14:56Right.

14:56So before we,

14:57you know,

14:58you know,

14:58close the conversation

14:59for today,

15:00I'll not call you

15:00for very much longer

15:01and I'll,

15:03you know,

15:03leave the essence

15:04for the roll-up

15:05and AppChain day

15:05as well as the insights,

15:07but still I would,

15:08you know,

15:08if I would ask you

15:09to summarize,

15:10you know,

15:11the potential

15:11which parachains

15:12are bringing

15:13to the table

15:13comparing,

15:14you know,

15:15the,

15:15the demand

15:15of today's era.

15:18I think Gavin,

15:18Dr. Gavin Wood

15:19himself has said

15:20years ago

15:20that,

15:21you know,

15:21the L1 is not

15:22to build applications,

15:23but these are AppChains

15:24which are going

15:25to be building

15:25applications

15:26and,

15:26you know,

15:26Vitalik also said

15:28the same.

15:29So what do you think

15:30in terms of potential

15:31which,

15:32which Polkadot

15:32such is bringing forward

15:34for all these

15:34AppChain specific

15:35projects,

15:36you know,

15:37if you have to

15:37summarize it

15:38in a nutshell?

15:40I would say

15:41it's,

15:41it's the,

15:42the fact that

15:44we have the

15:44super efficient

15:45chartered blockchain

15:46and that

15:48teams that

15:49actually have users

15:50and we see this

15:51now a lot,

15:52there's a lot of

15:52interest in Polkadot

15:53again from more

15:54traditional industries

15:56that basically

15:57that have the users

15:59that couldn't

16:00easily deploy

16:01on another solution

16:02because they would,

16:03would get into

16:04issues with

16:04transaction and

16:05what cost a lot

16:07and so on.

16:08So there,

16:09there we,

16:09we actually see

16:10a huge use case

16:11of Polkadot

16:12and I think

16:13with the entire

16:13environment now,

16:15now changing

16:16in the US

16:18and so on

16:18where more and more

16:19teams are actually

16:20interested in

16:21leveraging this

16:22technology,

16:22we,

16:23there's,

16:24there's a lot

16:24of growth

16:25for,

16:26for everyone

16:26in this industry

16:27but also for Polkadot

16:29given that we can

16:30actually provide

16:31the scalability.

16:34Perfect.

16:34Any,

16:35any message

16:36for the projects

16:37coming on the ground

16:38looking for Polkadot

16:39as an ecosystem?

16:40Any message for them?

16:43Yeah,

16:43yeah,

16:43in general feel free

16:44to reach out.

16:45So we,

16:46we are happy,

16:47happy to help

16:47and if you want

16:49to leverage

16:50Perfuse

16:50or another solution

16:52we,

16:53we are also,

16:53we have,

16:54we have potential grants

16:55to,

16:56to accommodate

16:56and help with this

16:58and to get teams

16:59off the ground

17:00and get some,

17:01some initial proof

17:04of concept working

17:05and so on

17:05and grow it from there

17:06and actually bring,

17:08bring real users

17:09and into this space.

17:11Yeah.

17:13Absolutely.

17:13And,

17:13and for the audience,

17:14you know,

17:14if you are building

17:15on Polkadot or

17:16are planning to build

17:17on Polkadot,

17:18Z will be on the ground

17:18with their product

17:19Perfuse

17:19which helps you automate

17:21and manage parachains

17:22in a few clicks.

17:23Plus,

17:23David will be on the floor

17:24as well

17:25and I'm sure David

17:26would be open

17:27to have a conversation

17:27with you

17:28in case you are doubting

17:29your choice

17:30or in case you are

17:31having confusions

17:31or wanting to draw

17:33the paths further.

17:34David would be happy

17:35to have a conversation

17:37on the Roll Up

17:37and App Chain Day

17:38at AdStenver with you.

17:40So feel free

17:41to reach out

17:42and see you all

17:43during the Roll Up

17:44and App Chain Day.

17:45Thank you, David.

17:46Thank you very much.

17:47I know this is not all.

17:48You have tons

17:49and tons of insights coming

17:50but you're saving it

17:52for the day

17:52and I'll not let you,

17:53you know,

17:54go without saying

17:55that they will be

17:57tons and tons

17:57of insights that day.

17:59Yeah, definitely,

18:00definitely.

18:01Happy to share

18:02and thanks for having me.

18:05Yeah, thank you.

18:05Bye-bye.

18:06Bye.

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