🔺Avalanche 9000, Etna Upgrade, L1 Blockchain Development, & more. Martin Eckardt of Ava Labs Shares

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In this exclusive interview, we sit down with Martin Eckardt from Ava Labs to discuss the latest advancements in the Avalanche ecosystem, including:  🚀 Avalanche 9000 – The next evolution of Avalanche’s high-performance blockchain  ⚡ Etna Upgrade – Key improvements, scalability, and what it means for developers & users  ⛓️ L1 Blockchain Development – How Avalanche is pushing the boundaries of speed, security, and decentralization  💡 Future Roadmap – Upcoming features, partnerships, and ecosystem growth  Whether you're a developer, investor, or blockchain enthusiast, this deep dive into Avalanche’s tech and vision is a must-watch!  🔗 Relevant Links & Resources  Avalanche Official Website  Ava Labs Twitter  Avalanche Documentation  📌 Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 02:15 - Avalanche 9000 Deep Dive 08:40 - Etna Upgrade Explained 15:20 - L1 Innovation & Developer Tools 22:50 - Future of Avalanche & Closing Thoughts  👍 Enjoyed the video? Like, Subscribe, and hit the bell (🔔) to stay updated on the latest in blockchain tech!  #Avalanche #AVAX #Blockchain #Crypto #AvaLabs #Web3 #Cryptocurrency #DeFi #SmartContracts

Transcript

00:00Hi, everyone. My name is Ravi. I'm the co-founder, CEO of Zeev. And today on Web3 Voice by Zeev,

00:10we have a very exciting member on the show, Martin Eckhardt, who is the Senior Director

00:14of Developer Relations at AvaLabs. So hi, Martin. I would like to welcome you to Web3 Voice by Zeev.

00:20Thank you very much. I'm glad to be here.

00:22Yeah. So Martin, before we get onto the deeper topics of Avalanche L1s and app chains and

00:31adoption and so on and so forth in the Web3 space, a bit about your journey in Web3 so far,

00:37a bit of your introduction and your journey so far.

00:40Yeah. I joined the Web3 community a couple of years back, just traditionally through hackathons.

00:47So I started as a builder in the ecosystem, got really amazed by the fundamentals and the stack,

00:51and then eventually I joined the Avalanche community at one of their summits and just got

00:58deeper and deeper into the stack and got really amazed by the layer one thesis. And since then,

01:03I joined as a developer relations engineer and eventually took over the team and I'm now working

01:08as a Senior Director at AvaLabs.

01:11Well, that's very exciting. And I think Avalanche today is one of the biggest and the chain which

01:18has got one of the largest adoption as far as smart contract platforms are concerned.

01:23So, and we saw that, you know, recently there was a massive upgrade in August, September last year

01:29that happened on the main chain as well as to the whole subnet proposition and subnet stack.

01:35So would you like to talk about some of the upgrades that happened and the results that we are seeing

01:41based on those updates?

01:42Yeah, 100%. So the Aetna upgrade and the campaign that is called Avalanche 9000 really brought a lot

01:51of changes to Avalanche, which is a multi-chain network. So it brought some changes to the multi-chain

01:56aspect, but also we have a primary network and most commonly known the C-chain, which is the public

02:03permissionless chain of the Avalanche network. And it also brought performance improvements to that.

02:08So as a result of that, the cost for issuing transactions on the C-chain dramatically dropped

02:15and also the economic barrier and also the complexity of launching your own blockchain,

02:20your own layer one blockchain in the Avalanche network also dramatically dropped.

02:26And we all did this by, you know, still keeping like all these nice properties, fast finality,

02:31that is faster than a second. And the interoperability between the chains that does not rely on any

02:38third parties or, you know, like complicated mechanisms and still settle super fast also

02:43below just in a matter of seconds. So it was an exciting upgrade. It was definitely the largest

02:49we've done since the Mainnet launch. And we're very glad that it's now live on Mainnet and the first

02:56project are already adopting it and launching L1s in the Avalanche network.

03:01Well, I think that's a very interesting development. And in fact, we have been reading a lot of news

03:08about this, how there has been a 75% gas reduction, gas fee reduction on doing a transaction on the

03:15C-chain, as well as, you know, we are seeing massive developer adoption happening. More than 35%

03:21uptake hasn't happened in just last couple of months. So I think that that's something very

03:26motivating and encouraging for the Avalanche ecosystem. And on the L1, I think, I remember

03:32about a few months back, I had about August, September last year, I had a talk show with

03:39John Nahas and, you know, we were talking about some of the challenges. Startups as well as

03:45enterprises are facing adopting Avalanche subnets, the AppChain stack. And I think, so he talked

03:51at length about, you know, the upcoming upgrades. And I think we at Z, who are one of the implementation

03:58partners for Avalanche, you know, AppChain stack, the Avalanche L1s, are very, very excited to see

04:06some of these upgrades happen where the model has changed from CAPEX to OPEX and, you know,

04:13a lot of other changes which had made the infrastructure very leaner. So a bit more about

04:18what Avalanche L1 looks like, what are the core value propositions of L1s and what more upgrades

04:26and updates that we are going to see in future? Yeah. So before the update, there were Avalanche

04:31subnets. And the high level idea here is that validators would have multiple roles, right? Like

04:37they would all have the same role. They would be a primary network validator. And therefore,

04:42to fulfill this role, they also had to fulfill their primary network staking requirements. That means

04:47every validator had to stake 2000 AVAX, right? And then the validators can take on additional roles,

04:53for example, you know, becoming a subnet validator here. And then, you know, for that role, they may

04:59have to suffice additional staking requirements. And the upgrade really turned that whole idea around.

05:07And now we are living in a world where validators don't hold multiple roles, but they are either a

05:12primary network validator or an L1 validator. And that really changes the game for many teams

05:18building on Avalanche. Because now, you know, since the validators do not have to fulfill that role

05:24anymore and fulfill these staking requirements of the primary network, the cost to join as a validator

05:31dramatically dropped. So the 2000 AVAX staking requirement was removed for these L1 validators,

05:36while it maintains for the primary network validators. But to launch an L1 now does not

05:40require this massive capital and this massive capital to stake 2000 AVAX. But it also, you know,

05:49just massively simplifies, for example, the hardware requirements for a validator. Because,

05:53you know, now a validator just has one specific role that does not have, you know, like is not

06:00validating multiple chains, but just a single one. So all of these combined here really makes

06:05the Avalanche L1 stack much, much quicker and easier to adopt and also easier to maintain.

06:14Got it. No, I think this is super, super exciting. And we are already seeing a lot of traction coming in.

06:19We have been outreaching to a lot of interactions that we had in the last couple of years.

06:23And because, you know, the startup ecosystem, when we talk about startups, they are always

06:28worried about upfront costs and ongoing costs of running infrastructure. And I think some of

06:34these upgrades are very, very helpful for these startups to jumpstart and get started with their

06:40app chains or their custom blockchains. So, Martin, just to talk a bit brief about the whole

06:46app chain value proposition. So traditionally, we have seen that, you know, people deploy their

06:52dApps, you know, somebody building a DeFi app or a gaming app, or even in the, they tend to

06:59deploy their dApps on a public chain, whether it be Ethereum, Avalanche or any other public chain.

07:05And then, you know, we started seeing the concept of app chains, application-specific chains.

07:10Now, if you see enterprises on one end, they have always used to launch app chains. The term

07:17app chain was not there, but we have been working with enterprises since 2019. And there was always,

07:24you need to set up a permission network for your specific application. So they were essentially,

07:29you know, from a definition perspective, it was an app chain. But now the startups have also started

07:38looking at, because they may have a requirement of high performance, high throughput. They may want to

07:44have low congestion or control over gas fee. And then among the enterprises, we are seeing

07:48challenges of, you know, data privacy, so that they can actually look towards decentralized

07:54frameworks to build their blockchains. So how do you see this app chain philosophy and app chain

08:02concept coming up with a strong value proposition that we are seeing a lot more startups as well as

08:08enterprises are looking at launching their app chains, rather than just looking at deploying

08:12their dApps on a public chain?

08:15Yeah, I think, so from a user perspective, right, like ideally, there shouldn't be any

08:19difference, right? Like the user will connect their wallet or not even know that they have a wallet and

08:24interact with a blockchain. It really is what happens under the hood, right? And you can really

08:33think of it as a divide and conquer approach, right? If you host multiple applications on a single

08:41blockchain, right? Like there are interdependencies, right? Like every blockchain has a limited

08:46throughput, meaning that, you know, like it can only process that many transactions. So if the activity

08:53on one blockchain massively picks up, and therefore the blockchain get congested, or the transaction fees

09:01raise, that has an effect on all the applications on that chain, right? So it's really a trade off here to make

09:07that, you know, like, maybe, you know, like, why not move if there's significant interest in an

09:12application, why not move it to its own dedicated blockchain, and kind of like have kind of like this

09:17exclusive space here for the users to interact with that application without competing over block

09:24space with other applications. And this really shows especially in times, I don't know, we all remember

09:30probably the NFT craze on Ethereum, where there were drops and the entire network was unusable for,

09:37for days, or especially in the bull market, when it picked up and Uniswap, swap costs $200. All right,

09:44like, so moving to your own chain, prevents all that you're so your transaction fees are completely

09:50independent. That is really relevant for everything that is gaming, right, like that needs slow transaction

09:56fees, that is independent of any market conditions. And they just need a guarantee that, you know, like

10:01their transaction fee, just not double or 10x over certain events that they have no influence on.

10:08Another option, why people go on on chain, on their own chain is definitely compliance, right? Like, so

10:15these public permissionless chains can be the wild, wild west. And it is really difficult to make sure you're

10:22compliant there. So we see some institutions that move on their own permission blockchains. And they want to

10:29use the tech, but they want to use it in a compliant way. So for example, they can make sure that all the

10:35users on that chain can interact with it permissionlessly, but have gone through a KYC process.

10:40And furthermore, that all, you know, providers on that chain, maybe multiple service providers offer

10:46their services on that chain, but all providers have gone through a KYB process. So yeah, this is really

10:53a big, big, big reason for many institutions to choose an L1 chain, because they can really argue,

11:00this is a complete compliant chain that doesn't have any interdependencies with, you know, compliance risks.

11:11No, absolutely. I think we agree to all very interesting points that you have laid out. And if we see the

11:18gamut of customers or builders, like on the native side, you rightly said, user experience becomes super,

11:27super important. And to have the desired user experience, whether it be NFT marketplace or a DeFi app or a

11:33payment app, they may want to have guestless transactions, they may want to have, you know, other

11:39integrations in place, like you mentioned about native interoperability, which becomes very, very important for

11:44cross chain liquidity. So user experience requirement, you know, high performance,

11:51better control over the gas configs, etc. becomes very, very important for these DeFi startups.

11:56And on the enterprise side, data privacy, data compliances, other regulations become super important.

12:02One use case, like Remedy is one big builder on Avalanche L1.

12:07One, they are a health, they are into healthcare space. So of course, they require very strong data

12:14compliances, which again is enabled by the way data layer can be architected, whichever way you want,

12:20based on the compliance requirements on L1s. Similarly, if you see, we have enterprise

12:25consortium running on L1s. So as you rightly said, permission chains where they want to have,

12:32they still want to use the latest stack, which is continuously updated, upgraded,

12:36newer developments, a plethora of integrations, which are readily available today.

12:42So that makes it very, very important as compared to the permission stacks of yesterday.

12:46And at the same time, they can create their own flavors, you know, if they want fully permission,

12:51they want consortium led approach where only 50 or 100 participants can run the validator nodes and

12:58take care of the governance of the chain, they can do that. And that I think is amazing and beautiful

13:05about L1, that it gives you a complete spectrum, starting from fully public permissionless to

13:14permission, you know, and somewhere in between whichever way you want to architect it or design

13:19it or configure it. Yeah, that is really, for many teams, it's a journey, right? Like, you know,

13:25like maybe in an initial phase where you just go to market, you know, like L1 that has a small

13:32validator set that is permission to a certain degree, make sense. But you know, like you're

13:36really not logged in. So you can just, you know, like make your way on that path to decentralization,

13:42you know, like decentralize your validator set over time, you know, all these like implement staking,

13:48and that is all not set in stone, you can just, you know, naturally evolve your L1 to, you know,

13:54like the desired level of decentralization, eventually, and hand more and more over to the

14:00community, which is, I think, really exciting. And we already seen that with the first L1s now.

14:04And it's an exciting journey. It's also a great tool for these companies to, you know, like add a whole

14:12different value to their token, right? Like if it's suddenly not only a governance token, but actually

14:18you can use the token as to pay for transaction fees or as a staking token, and that really helps

14:25kind of like the entire community and company to evolve. Absolutely. So now we have a very exciting

14:33Avalanche L1 stack. We have, you know, lots of integrations that are available. We have a very

14:39linear infrastructure requirements, you know, you do not require heavy nodes to run in. The model is more

14:46of OPEX now, so you do not require 2,000 AVEX. So the stage is all set and there's a massive

14:50adoption already. There are hundreds of L1s already running across native Web3 as well as enterprises.

14:59One piece which again become very important is that for startups and for enterprises, they do require

15:05the infrastructure to be managed in such a way that it becomes easy to build, launch and deploy and run

15:11your or manage your app chains very effectively. And that is where, you know, our proposition, you know,

15:18Zeep Cogitus, we launched a product specifically for this launching the L1. So what do you think,

15:25what are your views, how important it is for builders to have such a platform which enables them to,

15:32you know, take out the or abstract the entire infrastructure layer so they can still focus on

15:37deploying their dApps, running and building their business rather than focusing on the infrastructure?

15:43Yeah, I think this is like really what we see with builders is that especially like the initial phase

15:47of launching the L1, if that is facilitated by a partner, it just massively reduces the complexity

15:55for the builders and helps them to get started really quickly. Like within, you know, like a couple

16:01hours you can spin or have someone spin up your L1, you're ready to go, have all the infrastructure in

16:07place. And there's a really big difference also to layer twos here, right? Like if you have a,

16:13if you launch a layer two with a rollup provider, right? Like it is somewhat limited of how much

16:19control you have over that. But you know, like with L1s, you know, like it's not winner takes all,

16:25right? Like there can be like setups where, you know, like the rollup provider or the blockchain

16:31service provider runs some validators for you, stands up the chain. And then, you know, like maybe

16:35you run some validators on premises, you know, and it's kind of like a collaboration between you

16:41and one provider or even multiple providers. And every provider here can bring their own services

16:45into the mix, maybe someone is specialized on account abstraction, others are specialized on

16:49indexing. So it's really, you know, like you can use all the strength of different providers

16:54to help stand your chain up. And then, you know, like provide all kinds of services around that chain

17:00and really kickstart, you know, like how fast you can build your product. And

17:05that brings you in a position where you don't have to worry about the different stacks.

17:09You don't have to understand how it works or how to maintain it. You can have a decentralized,

17:15decentralized maintained by your community and rollup providers. And then you can really focus on

17:21your application logic. And you don't have to worry about infrastructure or anything like it

17:25while maintaining a decentralization for your, for your chain and your community.

17:31Yeah, no, absolutely. I think you have raised some very important points

17:37that, you know, a builder needs to take care of when they are engaging with a partner like us.

17:42So there are some core features, you know, of a platform like Cogitus is that, you know,

17:47it helps you deploy your chain, set up your configs, you can customize it also. And then post deployment,

17:53you know, you have your monitoring dashboards and management dashboards, etc. But that's,

17:58that's something which is very standard offering. But at the same time, one thing that, because we

18:04have been running app chains for the last four years, different stacks, you know, L1s, L2s, L3s. But

18:10one thing we have realized is that, you know, we need to give comfort to enterprises or whether it be a

18:15native Web3 startups. There's, there should not be any lock-in. And that is the philosophy that we come

18:20on with. We provide a very reliable infrastructure, but without lock-in. We are the only player in the

18:25market to provide BYOC, which is bring your own cloud. So you do everything using our platform, still

18:30you can deploy or run your L1 on your own cloud environment. That gives you absolute control. That

18:36means that, you know, everything is running within your environment. And still we are taking away all the

18:41hassles and pains of running up and managing a chain, whether it be updates, upgrades, whether

18:47it be 24-7 monitoring, customer support, SLAs, everything is taken care of. And at the same

18:53time, you know, we bring in 50 plus integration partners, whether it be account abstraction or

18:58interoperability or, you know, on-ramp, off-ramp, wallet infrastructure, whatever is required by the

19:04by the startup, depending on their use case. So I think, and then, you know, a lot of co-marketing

19:11and community building efforts and connections to the Web3 ecosystem, especially for the newer

19:16startups. And then on the other hand, for the enterprises, massive, massive expertise on managing

19:22compliances and privacy areas for various industries that we have worked with in telecom and financial

19:28services and healthcare, I think. So you've raised very important concerns that typically a builder would

19:37have. And I think we are trying very hard to take care of each of those concerns so that, you know,

19:42we become a partner, but at the same time, there is no lock-in to us. So they want to add more

19:48validators. They want to run validators on their own. They want to bring in other blockchain-as-a-service

19:52providers to collaborate on the network. Everything is completely open. So I think we work on that

19:57philosophy and, and, and I think it was a great feedback from your side also, and we'll continue to

20:02take effort in that side so that, uh, end of the day, the builder should feel more and more

20:07comfortable working with the infrastructure provider. So, uh, um, um, Martin, now, you know,

20:14we are very excited about ETH Denver, uh, coming in few weeks time. We are hosting the roll-up and

20:20app chain day, uh, and Avalabs is, is our cohost. So, um, what kind of, uh, any, any insights, uh, uh,

20:29about Avalanche, about Avalanche L1 stack, uh, that you would like to share here? Any new updates that

20:36are coming in? Uh, we are very excited to host, uh, uh, that, you know, Avalabs is, is cohosting with

20:42us and, and team from your side would be joining us. Yeah. Yeah. We, we are incredibly excited, uh,

20:49because, uh, ETH Denver will be the first very large conference after our massive upgrade.

20:53So it will be the first time that, uh, many builders will get their eyes on, on this new tech

20:58stack that really evolved over the past few months. And, uh, we are extremely excited to do that, uh,

21:03with you together. And, um, I think like, if we, if we look a little bit into the future, like, uh, what,

21:09what we are currently working on, uh, heads down is, um, you know, like, uh, Avalanche is

21:14a very flexible network, right? Like, uh, the developers have, uh, a lot of control over

21:19their entire stack. So meaning they can not only, you know, like, um, just launch the L1,

21:24but they can, you know, like tweak it to exactly what they need. So we are super excited to explore

21:29more stuff that is, you know, like going beyond the EBM and, um, that, uh, also supports different

21:34execution environments. And, um, yeah, we're super excited about, uh, yeah,

21:39just doing more work in that and, uh, possibly revealing some at Eat Denver.

21:44Absolutely. Looking forward to it. Uh, Thomas, me, you know, we all would be there at Eat Denver.

21:50And we are also looking forward to, uh, the Avalanche summit in London in May, May or June.

21:55I think, uh, we are again, we're looking forward to that even. Um, so I think it would be very exciting

22:01year. Uh, we have a very, uh, ambitious target of, uh, launching quite a few L1 chains, uh, this year.

22:07We have already started. I think January was pretty good. So seeing a lot of traction,

22:12uh, these updates, upgrades and, um, leaner infrastructure, I think is, is, um, we are

22:19already seeing the early signs that it's, it's, it's a game changer. Uh, so Martin, I think we are,

22:24we are pretty much at the end of this space. So, um, what is your vision, uh, for Avalanche in the next

22:31three to five years, where do you see, you know, how the app chain ecosystem is evolving? The L1

22:36landscape is evolving and how, you know, Avalanche is keeping pace with the emerging trends or the

22:42competition that is coming in the blockchain space. Yeah. So what I hope for the next three to five

22:48years is really this network effect come kick in for the Avalanche network, right? Like, so currently

22:53we have around 50 L1s. Um, and I think, um, that is a great start. And, you know,

22:58if you had asked me a while ago, if I would have thought we'd be here already, I wouldn't have

23:02believed it. Um, but I think the network effect will really kick off once we cross like 200, 300 L1s

23:09that user interoperability that, you know, like works quick and easy, completely trustless between

23:15the L1s, uh, no third parties, no bridging risks, uh, like for bridge nodes or any, many of the hacks

23:21we've seen in the, in the past years. Um, so, um, I'm really excited for that. I think seeing like

23:27this network grow and this network effect, uh, picking up, um, by L1s that are hosted with Z for other

23:32providers or just, um, uh, completely, uh, by the community. And then, you know, like these, um, uh,

23:38different L1s work together and exchange liquidity. And then I think, um, on the technical side,

23:45um, you know, like exploring different execution environments, uh, maybe we will see, you know,

23:49like, uh, uh, uh, move based, uh, L1 eventually, or, um, yeah. And then I think the next evolution

23:56of that is we have this, um, uh, Northstar where we want to, you know, like have many chains that feel

24:01as one. So really like under the hood, the infrastructure are many independent chains,

24:06but the user really can use them as if it was one massive chain and, uh, it doesn't really

24:11notice how, you know, like they, they are traveling between the, the different chains.

24:15And, um, so that is kind of like the, the, uh, evolution I'm very excited about in the,

24:20in the coming years. And, uh, yeah, we're working hard every day with our entire team and, uh,

24:25with partners like yourself. So I'm really excited to see that all come to life.

24:29I absolutely love it. Uh, the way you mentioned this, I think this is what, what, uh,

24:34I also emphasize that end of the day, the builder from, from the builder perspective,

24:40the infrastructure should be completely abstracted. They should have an interface to

24:44deploy their contract, whether they are doing it on a public chain or their own app chain,

24:49it doesn't matter. And it should be more of a transaction led where, you know,

24:53based on what they want, if they want, uh, like it's, it's typically how, how it works

24:58in web two, you know, I may be running a small four page HTML website, a shared hosting works

25:05great for me. If I'm running a bigger CRM application, I'm anticipating a hundred users

25:10and a hundred team members and thousands of users. I may want a dedicated, uh, machine,

25:17right. Or a bigger server infrastructure. It's pretty much that, and it should be that,

25:21but, but from a builder perspective, the experience should be as simple as that,

25:26you know, deploying a contract and move forward. So I think that is the, uh, vision we share with

25:31you. I think, uh, it's an excellent way you put it in. Um, so it was, uh, um, great talking to you,

25:39Martin. I think, uh, we got to know, um, the vision of Avalanche, how it is moving. And we are very,

25:45very excited to partner with, uh, Avalabs for Avalanche L1s. And at the same time,

25:51you know, uh, you being our cohost, uh, for the rollup and app chain day and looking forward to

25:56a lot of exciting developments in 2025 with that. Thank you. Thanks, Martin, for joining us.

26:02Thank you for having me. Right. Thank you.

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