- 7/11/2025
Dive deep into the future of rollups and decentralized sequencing with Dr. Ravi Chamria, Co-founder & CEO of Zeeve, in this insightful conversation hosted by Idon Liu, Co-founder of Pentagon Games. Discover how CERO is transforming the blockchain ecosystem by tackling the challenges of Maximum Extractable Value (MEV) and introducing innovative revenue mechanisms for rollups.
Dr. Ravi begins by unpacking the fundamentals of rollups, delving into transaction ordering and the often-underestimated issue of MEV, especially within the DeFi space. He explains how MEV can compromise the fairness and security of decentralized applications and sheds light on the limitations of current rollup revenue models, which primarily depend on transaction fees.
This discussion introduces CERO's trailblazing solution: a dedicated Proof-of-Stake (PoS) chain powered by Tendermint consensus and built using the Cosmos SDK. What sets CERO apart is its industry-first plug-and-play architecture, designed to integrate effortlessly with leading rollup stacks.
Key Topics Covered:
🔹Rollup Fundamentals: Understanding how rollups function and the significance of transaction ordering.
🔹MEV Explained: The risks MEV poses to DeFi and broader blockchain applications.
🔹Current Rollup Revenue Models: Challenges and limitations of fee-based systems.
🔹Introducing CERO: A purpose-built PoS chain pioneering decentralized sequencing.
CERO Network Specifications:
🔹Tendermint consensus built using Cosmos SDK.
🔹Plug-and-play architecture supporting Optimism, Arbitrum (Optimistic Rollups), Polygon, and ZKSync (ZK Rollups).
🔹Future compatibility with Starknet, Linea, and Scroll.
🔹Data Availability Layer integration with Celestia, NEAR, EigenDA, Avail, and others.
🔹Innovative Revenue Streams: Exploring alternatives to traditional transaction fees.
🔹CERO Tokenomics: Streamlined economics enabling rollups to use their own gas tokens while benefiting from a shared fee model.
Validator Benefits: How rollups can earn from network-wide fees by operating as validators.
Explore how CERO is addressing the structural issues of decentralized sequencing, fostering a more robust and inclusive rollup ecosystem. Dr. Ravi shares how rollups can integrate with CERO to unlock diversified revenue opportunities, moving beyond the limitations of transaction fee dependency.
Dr. Ravi begins by unpacking the fundamentals of rollups, delving into transaction ordering and the often-underestimated issue of MEV, especially within the DeFi space. He explains how MEV can compromise the fairness and security of decentralized applications and sheds light on the limitations of current rollup revenue models, which primarily depend on transaction fees.
This discussion introduces CERO's trailblazing solution: a dedicated Proof-of-Stake (PoS) chain powered by Tendermint consensus and built using the Cosmos SDK. What sets CERO apart is its industry-first plug-and-play architecture, designed to integrate effortlessly with leading rollup stacks.
Key Topics Covered:
🔹Rollup Fundamentals: Understanding how rollups function and the significance of transaction ordering.
🔹MEV Explained: The risks MEV poses to DeFi and broader blockchain applications.
🔹Current Rollup Revenue Models: Challenges and limitations of fee-based systems.
🔹Introducing CERO: A purpose-built PoS chain pioneering decentralized sequencing.
CERO Network Specifications:
🔹Tendermint consensus built using Cosmos SDK.
🔹Plug-and-play architecture supporting Optimism, Arbitrum (Optimistic Rollups), Polygon, and ZKSync (ZK Rollups).
🔹Future compatibility with Starknet, Linea, and Scroll.
🔹Data Availability Layer integration with Celestia, NEAR, EigenDA, Avail, and others.
🔹Innovative Revenue Streams: Exploring alternatives to traditional transaction fees.
🔹CERO Tokenomics: Streamlined economics enabling rollups to use their own gas tokens while benefiting from a shared fee model.
Validator Benefits: How rollups can earn from network-wide fees by operating as validators.
Explore how CERO is addressing the structural issues of decentralized sequencing, fostering a more robust and inclusive rollup ecosystem. Dr. Ravi shares how rollups can integrate with CERO to unlock diversified revenue opportunities, moving beyond the limitations of transaction fee dependency.
Category
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TechTranscript
00:00Hi, everyone. We have a very special guest today, Idon from Pantagon Games.
00:13So, one very interesting development that has happened at Zee.
00:17We launched the Alpha testnet, the Lotus testnet for Serum,
00:20which is a decentralized sequencer last week.
00:23Idon has been involved with the Serum project
00:25and has also been involved with us
00:27as part of the Rollup-as-a-Service strategy of the Pantagon Games.
00:32So, we have Idon and we would love to have a chat as to,
00:36because Serum is something which is going to revolutionize
00:40how decentralized sequencing is being seen in the market.
00:43So, it's not just about decentralization,
00:45it's not just about solving the front-running or any of the exploitation challenges,
00:49but it's about solving the core or hitting the core problem
00:53in the Rollup ecosystem, which is the economic sustainability of running at all.
00:58So, hi, Idon.
00:59Hi. Hello. Thanks for having me.
01:01Yeah. So, Idon, the stage is open to you.
01:04Sure.
01:05And we would love to have you here and you can ask any questions.
01:08And I would love to answer, you know, whatever you have regarding Serum.
01:12Sure. Thank you. First of all, I'm going to give a little bit of background.
01:16So, we run a project called Pantagon Games,
01:19and we started very early on into investing into multi-chain infrastructure.
01:24Very luckily, you know, we were involved for including Polygon as one of them,
01:28and we are very likely to be involved actually by now.
01:31It used to be two projects, but now we run two validators for Polygon.
01:35And one of the key concerns I always have had is,
01:38okay, well, I'm just kind of running the validate,
01:41but which validator includes the three parts, which include, of course, the consensus,
01:48but also what we're talking about here, which is sequencing,
01:52and then the data availability.
01:54So, I always had concern when I think it was like three, four years ago
01:58when we talked about the NVEV attack, right, the maximum extractable value,
02:03that I don't know what my validator really is doing
02:07and whether or not that's being taken advantage of, especially for, you know,
02:12users that might get impacted from all this NVEV attack.
02:16Dr. Ravi, you know, this is my layman's understanding,
02:19is sequencing is kind of like when you are sort of kind of at a supermarket
02:25when there is, you know, a lineup or batches, but there are some spaces available
02:32so you can kind of slot in kind of different sequence, but inadvertently,
02:37the sequence of it might give you a different rate,
02:40which means someone may be able to pick something, you know,
02:43a better vegetable or fruit before you, although you line up for all this time,
02:47but someone came in later, but still picked, you know, a better fruit.
02:50Can you maybe explain a little bit just for the general audience, you know,
02:54why cereal and what's the issue with the sequencing today?
02:59I think people hear about NVEV and what's a good layman close to explain that?
03:04Yeah. So one, let me lay out the standard challenges in a centralized sequencing.
03:09So what, what sequencing is.
03:11So when you run a rollup, the transactions happen.
03:13You need to batch the transactions and then you roll up the batch onto the layer one, right?
03:18That is how the rollup works.
03:20So rollup is essentially, you are executing the transactions off chain
03:23and then you are rolling up the transactions on chain onto, onto the settlement layer,
03:27which is Ethereum in most of the cases.
03:30Now, while you are ordering these transactions,
03:33since if you are running a centralized sequencer,
03:35that means as a rollup operator,
03:37you can decide which all transactions you can include.
03:39So you can choose to not include some of the transactions.
03:43It does not make sense to you.
03:45Or you may choose transactions, you know, which give you more transaction fee, right?
03:49So that is what is called MEV exploitation.
03:52And this is, some of the use cases which are privacy use cases does not make a difference.
03:58Because the users are completely ignorant or they are completely agnostic to whatever is happening,
04:03whichever data transitions are being sequenced.
04:05But if you talk about a use case like DeFi, a decentralized exchange,
04:09this can create massive, massive challenges, right?
04:12So that's why it becomes very important that the challenges like front running or MEV exploitation should not have happened.
04:19And the sequencing should be fair and completely decentralized.
04:24Right. And also transparent.
04:26Because I think, as you mentioned,
04:28it sounds like it's also solving a censorship problem.
04:31Because I think what most people don't know is,
04:33although you're running an L2,
04:35because you might be still doing centralized sequencing,
04:38so therefore you are actually controlling,
04:41you can actually censor and control the order of which the actual transaction go through.
04:46So as part of our ecosystem,
04:48we also always want to keep things, you know, as fair as possible for users.
04:53So now, you know, obviously we're also working with Zeev as a service.
04:58We're running currently a Polygon CDK.
05:01And as we run that, obviously one of the key concerns for us again is the sequencing,
05:05because we do want to encourage ample DeFi to come into our ecosystem.
05:09Although we run the centralized sequencing,
05:11we don't have to plan to kind of rearrange the order.
05:14We are interested in two things.
05:16A is how do we make sure that everyone knows it's fair?
05:19But secondly, it's okay, from the use of cereal,
05:22how can we economically be able to convert?
05:25Where that value can be extracted by, you know, operator,
05:29to how everyone else can benefit.
05:32So as people go into just the centralized sequencing,
05:35what are some of the opportunities for us to be able to take what used to be
05:39some people taking a value,
05:41but now become a sheer value for, you know, all the participants.
05:44Yeah.
05:45So as you rightly said,
05:46so the first part was, you know, the front running every side,
05:49but that pertains to only DeFi use cases or some use cases.
05:53Now, if you see some of the other challenges,
05:57that comes to the whole economic model of running a rollup.
06:00So today, if you see the expenses side,
06:02when you run a rollup,
06:03one is the infrastructure cost of running the rollup.
06:06The second, there are L1 gas costs,
06:08because you need to batch up the transaction and submit the transition.
06:12The proofs of the transition on the L1,
06:14that cost is significant.
06:16Then there are,
06:17and you need to put in these straight routes and data hashes
06:21and transaction hashes.
06:23So data availability cost itself is a significant cost.
06:26So these are all the expenses that you incur.
06:28And on the revenue side,
06:30to match this,
06:31what you have is the transaction revenue,
06:33which is the revenue that is coming in the sequence.
06:35Right?
06:36Now, if you are a rollup,
06:37you will start starting your journey for the initial six months,
06:40if you are not able to bring in two million,
06:41three million transactions a month,
06:43your revenue side is very, very small.
06:46And it becomes very, very difficult for you to sustain your rollup.
06:50Right?
06:51That is where,
06:52that is the most important problem that we are trying to solve.
06:55Bringing additional revenue streams,
06:58so that it becomes much,
06:59much more economically viable for a rollup to sustain during this time.
07:03Once the transaction volume increases and they have much more sequence of revenue,
07:07then they can offset the cost or whatever expenses they are in there.
07:10Right?
07:11So that is where the new economic design comes into picture.
07:13Okay, great.
07:14And so tell us a little bit about the serial network itself,
07:18also have a token.
07:20So as an operator,
07:21I believe we need to also have some of this token,
07:23but as anyone running a decentralized sequencer node,
07:27they can also benefit.
07:28Can you tell us a little bit more about that tokenomics or how that would?
07:31Because I think a lot of people,
07:33audience might be quite interested in running,
07:35you know,
07:36a machine for the decentralized sequencing.
07:37And I don't think I've reviewed about what sort of specs that I need to be able to operate.
07:42Yeah.
07:43So there,
07:44so we have, so one, you know,
07:45if you talk about the architecture,
07:46it is built on tendermid consensus.
07:49It's built using Cosmos SDK.
07:51It's a POS delegated POS base chain.
07:54And then in terms of architecture,
07:55you know,
07:56we are endeavoring to make it completely plug and play,
07:58which is right now,
07:59nobody has done that in the market.
08:01So,
08:02we are connecting with,
08:03keep adding the support for all the different rollup stacks.
08:05And the rollup stacks are evolving.
08:06Today,
08:07we have Optimism and Arbitrum as the major optimistic stack,
08:10and Polygon,
08:11and ZK Sync as the major ZK rollups.
08:12But then StartNet,
08:13you know,
08:14launched their ZK stack,
08:15and then Scrawl is there.
08:16Linea has recently launched it.
08:18And then a few other stacks are coming in.
08:19So,
08:20slowly,
08:21we will add the support for other stacks as well.
08:23Then we are supporting Serestia,
08:25Near,
08:26Aigan,
08:27and Avail,
08:28and more and more DA are we able to add.
08:30So this is on the architecture standpoints.
08:32Our idea is to make it much more plug and play.
08:34And easy for rollups to onboard,
08:36whenever they want to attach to server as a decentralized sequencing.
08:39Now,
08:40second in terms of the token economics design.
08:42So,
08:43we are making it very flexible.
08:44We are not enforcing another token.
08:46Right now,
08:47if you see,
08:48the design is already very complex.
08:49A rollup is launched,
08:51they may have their native token,
08:53with a native token Gatsby.
08:55On top of that,
08:56they are already using ETH to pay for the Alvin Gatsby.
08:58So they are dealing with two tokens.
09:00On top of that,
09:01if we enforce another token,
09:02then it becomes a nightmare to manage three tokens.
09:05Right?
09:06So we are not enforcing our tokens.
09:07Our tokens come only into picture,
09:10when somebody does not have a native token.
09:12Right?
09:13And that is also becoming very, very popular right now.
09:16There are a lot of enterprise use cases who do not want to use their own native token.
09:20And now,
09:21in fact,
09:22OP style recently made a massive change,
09:24where they are not promoting,
09:26or as part of their default stack,
09:28they are not promoting custom Gatsby.
09:30Right?
09:31So that is slowly,
09:32slowly becoming a default,
09:33because it does not make any sense for most of the chains to have their custom Gatsby.
09:37So there,
09:38they can use Serro token.
09:39So that is how we have designed it,
09:40make it completely optional,
09:42to,
09:43if they want to become part of the Serro network,
09:46still they can use the customer,
09:47their own native gas token,
09:48to pay for the gas.
09:49And,
09:50what we are trying to do is that,
09:52the Rollup,
09:53once he becomes part of the Serro network,
09:55they will be running one of the validators on the Serro network.
09:58And by becoming a validator,
10:00they will be sharing the fee,
10:02across the Serro network.
10:04So it's like,
10:05if Serro network has got 100 Rollups running,
10:08and you are one of the Rollup,
10:10then you are obviously forgoing your sequencer fee,
10:13but you are gaining from the fee of other 99 Rollups.
10:16Right?
10:17And that other fee from 99 Rollups is going to be much more,
10:20than the fee that you are forgoing on your Rollup.
10:23And that makes us very, very attractive for every Rollup.
10:26Especially,
10:27the young startups,
10:28young builders,
10:29who have started their journey,
10:30and do not have significant revenue to start.
10:32So that is how the,
10:33token of,
10:34token economic center is designed.
10:35I,
10:36I think that's excellent,
10:37because I think,
10:38by the sounds of it,
10:39not only,
10:40you know,
10:41we're able to participate,
10:42in terms of,
10:43making everything fair,
10:44right?
10:45In terms of sequencing,
10:46so that it's all decentralized.
10:47At the same time,
10:48I believe it sounds like,
10:49we'll also be able to participate in,
10:50different tokens,
10:51from different,
10:52blockchain,
10:53which,
10:54our own guests,
10:55for our own user base,
10:56right?
10:57We try to give,
10:58share,
10:59all the top blue chip,
11:00gas token,
11:01to,
11:02all the different new users.
11:03So that they can start,
11:04start,
11:05adopting,
11:06a new,
11:07different blockchain.
11:08So it's a great way to kind of,
11:09learn this,
11:10piece,
11:11by obviously doing the work,
11:12but also,
11:13sharing that to some of our,
11:14premium users.
11:15Although,
11:16they're not blockchain specific,
11:17they're, you know,
11:18gamers, etc.
11:19But they can still,
11:20able to leverage,
11:21and be able to learn from different blockchain.
11:22I think it's a really,
11:23win-win,
11:24for a multi-chain future.
11:25So that's really,
11:26excellent.
11:27So,
11:28what is next for,
11:29several,
11:30in terms,
11:31what are some of the key,
11:32metrics we're trying to hit,
11:33and what are some of the,
11:35things that,
11:36you know,
11:37people can,
11:38you know, engage with,
11:39to kind of,
11:40to, you know,
11:41to, to be part of the next,
11:42step in this journey.
11:43Yep. So I think,
11:44on the technical side,
11:45we have launched the,
11:46alpha test,
11:47the Lotus tester.
11:48The next big milestone,
11:49on the tech side,
11:50would be,
11:51to launch the incentivized testnet,
11:52in the next six to eight weeks.
11:54And before that,
11:55you know,
11:56we are working with a few,
11:57roll up partners,
11:58and, to onboard them.
11:59And that will complete the testing phase.
12:01We are also getting,
12:02we are partnering with,
12:03few of these smart contract,
12:04and,
12:05the APT players,
12:06to get the audits done.
12:07So that we can launch the,
12:08incentivized testnet,
12:09with all the audits,
12:10and few,
12:11partners in place.
12:12We are right now,
12:13launched with Polygon CDK,
12:14and,
12:15and Celestia as the DA.
12:16But we want to extend,
12:17and,
12:18and we are in touch,
12:19with some of the other protocol stacks.
12:20So idea is,
12:21during this time,
12:22we want to forge some of,
12:23a solid partnership,
12:24with other protocol stacks,
12:25and some of the DFDAs,
12:26that will be,
12:27that will become part of our roadmap.
12:29So there's a clear roadmap,
12:30but we want to sequence the partners,
12:32which,
12:33are going to see more traction,
12:34and at the same time.
12:35So idea is,
12:36one,
12:37on the technical side,
12:38with stack,
12:39to add support for first.
12:40And then,
12:41but,
12:42keep focus on adding more and more rollups,
12:43onto the code.
12:44That's on the tech side.
12:45And,
12:46the second is,
12:47to build community,
12:48bring more and more rollups,
12:49and validators,
12:50on board.
12:51So,
12:52for the incentivize,
12:53we are targeting,
12:54about 20 to 25 validators,
12:55that leave a mix of rollup,
12:56running validators,
12:57as well as,
12:58some external validators,
12:59some popular validators.
13:00So,
13:01is there going to be a difference,
13:02between,
13:03an existing validator,
13:04for one of the chains,
13:05let's just say,
13:06a polygon,
13:07versus,
13:08you know,
13:09a rollup,
13:10or they have a,
13:11you know,
13:12similar,
13:13they're both invited,
13:14architecturally,
13:15if you were a polygon validator,
13:16which,
13:17you were already doing sequencing,
13:18does that change?
13:19Like,
13:20technically,
13:21is there a change,
13:22and from a business angle,
13:23you know,
13:24is there a difference?
13:25Right now,
13:26as per,
13:27our white paper,
13:28and the docs,
13:29it's pretty much the same,
13:31but we have been in discussion,
13:32that you know,
13:33because we,
13:34see,
13:35we want to create,
13:36a community of all the rollups,
13:37who become part of the sequencer network.
13:39And,
13:40we see that,
13:41you know,
13:42there is a massive value,
13:43that can be derived.
13:44It's not just about,
13:45interoperability,
13:46or intercomposability,
13:47or having some additional revenue stream.
13:49But,
13:50the way we invest is,
13:51is that,
13:52just imagine,
13:53we are having,
13:54500 or 1000 rollups,
13:56who are part of,
13:57one single community.
13:58And,
13:59imagine the kind of exchange of value,
14:00that can happen.
14:01There is immense value,
14:02that people can derive,
14:03from each other.
14:04Right?
14:05So, that is the kind of value,
14:06which we see here.
14:07It's a value ecosystem,
14:08that can happen.
14:09Right.
14:10We want to incentivize them,
14:11more and more,
14:12so that they drive this,
14:13zero ecosystem,
14:14rather than anyone else.
14:15Right.
14:16I think it's really cool,
14:17because,
14:18I mean,
14:19in my mind,
14:20it's kind of like,
14:21yes,
14:22for some reason,
14:23with all this rollup,
14:24everyone is kind of,
14:25becoming like,
14:26their own,
14:27independent,
14:28little,
14:29little islands,
14:30or you know,
14:31their own independent,
14:32ecosystem,
14:33which is almost like,
14:34centralized the game.
14:35But now,
14:36with the centralized sequencing,
14:37now you're kind of,
14:38making everyone,
14:39you know,
14:40first of all,
14:41do the,
14:42do the right things,
14:43right?
14:44Be fair,
14:45because with the game,
14:46we're talking about,
14:47solving the problem of,
14:48most of the rollup today,
14:49we'll do censorship resistant.
14:51So,
14:52with this decentralized sequencing,
14:53first of all,
14:54everyone can help me participate,
14:55again,
14:56everyone solve the same problem,
14:57and so I think,
14:58you know,
14:59this is a,
15:00some really,
15:01really great innovation,
15:02and I think,
15:03the best part is,
15:04now we can all,
15:05you know,
15:06work with each other,
15:07right,
15:08again,
15:09to kind of be able to,
15:10foster a lot more collaboration,
15:11so I think it's a,
15:12yeah,
15:13it's a fantastic idea.
15:14What was your inspiration to,
15:15kind of,
15:16you know,
15:17this centralized sequencing network,
15:18you know,
15:19obviously,
15:20you meet in the industry,
15:21you talk to a lot of the blockchain,
15:22did you just wake up one day,
15:23and say,
15:24hey,
15:25we really need to build it,
15:26because,
15:27you know,
15:28it's a big effort to,
15:29you know,
15:30tackle,
15:31you know,
15:32such a problem.
15:33So,
15:34one,
15:35we realized,
15:36on the economic design,
15:37it was very,
15:38very straightforward.
15:39We have already started seeing,
15:40not just us,
15:41but the other ask providers,
15:42and the system,
15:43most of the rollups are struggling today,
15:44economically viable,
15:45once they have launched their rollups.
15:46Some design,
15:47to make it more sustainable,
15:48for rollups to launch,
15:49and thrive in this ecosystem.
15:51Because one thing is clear,
15:52from a conceptually,
15:53or theoretical perspective,
15:55rollups and app chains,
15:56is the new paradigm,
15:57and it is going to stay.
15:58But how to make it happen?
15:59Because,
16:00not everyone is going to,
16:01they should not be dependent on grants,
16:03or funding,
16:04just to make the business thrive.
16:05You know,
16:06business should be,
16:07based on sound principles,
16:08and fundamentals,
16:09right?
16:10But they do require some kind of support,
16:11to start with.
16:12So that was one.
16:13Second is the fragmentation.
16:14Now we see that,
16:16you know,
16:17each stack,
16:18is talking about themselves,
16:19they are building their ecosystem.
16:20So it's good,
16:21you know,
16:22we are seeing a lot of innovation.
16:23So this fragmentation,
16:24is helping with the innovation,
16:25and then you know,
16:26like you know,
16:27we saw Westlis,
16:28from ZK Sync,
16:29talking about 10,000 DPS,
16:30with ZK.
16:31This is mind-boggling.
16:32It's amazing innovation,
16:33and span of just two years,
16:34or three years,
16:35right?
16:36The fragmentation has led to massive innovation,
16:38but,
16:39it has led to fragmentation,
16:40right?
16:41So,
16:42that was another motivation,
16:43how to bring together,
16:44so that now,
16:45innovation is there,
16:46but defragmenting everything,
16:48so that everything comes together.
16:50So that was another reason,
16:51because end of the day,
16:52these rollups need to talk to each other,
16:54right?
16:55And,
16:56we should not land into the same kind of challenges,
16:58of liquidity,
16:59and value exchange, etc.
17:00because that,
17:01and the whole concept of value ecosystem,
17:03or ecosystem itself,
17:04you know,
17:05we talk about ethereum ecosystem,
17:06but where is the ecosystem,
17:07if,
17:08if we have so much of fragmentation,
17:09right?
17:10Excellent.
17:11So,
17:12so from this point in mind,
17:13you know,
17:14you know,
17:15we know,
17:16TestNet is called Lotus.
17:17Is there a reason why it's called Lotus?
17:18Can you think about,
17:19what is the next one concept,
17:20Lotus the coil?
17:21Or,
17:22what's the inspiration?
17:23Lotus is a very popular flower in India.
17:25Yes.
17:26And,
17:27and that's why,
17:28you know,
17:29we kept the name Lotus.
17:30We,
17:31we,
17:32we may continue for the rest of the,
17:33as well.
17:34We are still contemplating on that,
17:35but yeah,
17:36that was the idea.
17:37Okay.
17:38Okay.
17:41It's great.
17:42You know,
17:43really glad to be part of this,
17:44journey.
17:45We obviously want to be,
17:46right there,
17:47because as you know,
17:48we are very forefront of adopting for technology.
17:49I think this,
17:50you know,
17:51keeping us there,
17:52but also,
17:53motive and aspiration has always been multi chain.
17:55So seeing the additional ability for us to say,
17:57Hey,
17:58we are all part of this,
17:59let's collaborate.
18:00How great,
18:01you know,
18:02be more inclusive has always been the,
18:04you know,
18:05our,
18:06our key operation model.
18:07Like,
18:08so yeah,
18:09thank you for,
18:10you know,
18:11creating this,
18:12excellent opportunity and,
18:13you know,
18:14solving an industry wide problem.
18:15Thanks,
18:16thanks.
18:17Thanks for joining us.
18:18And thanks for sharing your views.
18:19And also,
18:20you know,
18:21having an interesting chat with us.
18:22And thank you for being part of Zeek.
18:23I think your contribution,
18:24your continuous support has been very,
18:26very important for us,
18:27both from Zeek Ra's perspective,
18:29as well as for Serum.
18:30Right.
18:33Thank you so much.