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Justice on Trial Season 1 Episode 7
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00:00We commend to your care, O Lord, the spirit of Matthew Snyder, who died protecting others
00:23as a brave Marine in the war with Iraq, so that others might live.
00:31God hates fans! God hates fans! God hates fans!
00:36Ready! And fire!
00:41The wage of sin is death! The wage of sin is death!
00:45Ready! And fire!
00:48God killed your son!
00:59God killed your son!
01:04God killed your son!
01:16I'm Judy Scheindler. Before I was a judge on TV, I was a judge in New York City for 15 years, and a lawyer for 17 years before that.
01:26While serving on both sides of the bench, I learned that justice doesn't always end up feeling just.
01:32Sometimes the impact of one decision by a police officer, a lawyer, or even a judge can change the way justice is delivered.
01:42We're going to demonstrate this by taking landmark cases from actual crimes committed by real people, and we'll recreate them without trial lawyers, and yours truly is the trial judge.
01:52While we're not going to recreate the trials verbatim, all the court's ultimate decisions are accurate. It will be up to you to decide whether the case was fair and the outcome just.
02:04This episode of Justice on trial touches the lives of everyone. It involves free speech.
02:20As you'll see, cases about free speech can be, well, pretty emotional.
02:26The First Amendment of the Constitution contains ten simple words on the subject of free speech.
02:32Quote,
02:33Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech.
02:37That's it.
02:38No definition of what free speech is.
02:42Defining protected speech has been left to the courts.
02:46You probably know some examples of speech that isn't protected, such as threats or violence.
02:53But what about hate speech?
02:55And what about speech that causes emotional distress?
02:58That's what this case tries to define.
03:01But as you'll see, it isn't easy.
03:07Members of the jury.
03:09The plaintiff, Albert Snyder, is the father of the United States soldier who was killed while serving his country in Iraq.
03:16During his son's funeral, the defendants, Fred Phelps, who was the founder of the Westboro Baptist Church, and his daughters, led a protest outside of that funeral.
03:27The plaintiff alleges that he suffered extreme emotional distress as a result of the defendant's words and seeks damages.
03:36The defendant argues that although perhaps hurtful, his speech and acts are protected by the First Amendment's freedom of speech.
03:45You must decide.
03:47Counsel, note your appearance.
03:50Good morning, Your Honor, Larry Bachman, on behalf of the plaintiff, Albert Snyder, who was present in court.
03:56And for the defendants, Fred Phelps, Shirley Phelps Roper, and the Westboro Baptist Church, I'm Dan Menser.
04:02Good morning, Your Honor.
04:03Good morning.
04:04Counsel, if you wish to make an opening statement, you may do so now.
04:07Good morning, members of the jury.
04:09This is my opportunity to let the jury know where I will be going with the plaintiff's case.
04:16The defense is going to argue to you that the speech undertaken by his clients were protected by the First Amendment.
04:25Our position is that's simply not true.
04:28This is hate speech.
04:29Albert, in this case, just buried his son.
04:32He turns on the news immediately after the funeral.
04:36And this is what he hears.
04:38Another military funeral has been interrupted by the ultra-conservative Westboro Baptist Church.
04:45The wage of sin is death.
04:47The wage of sin is death.
04:49Why are you protesting at the funeral of Matthew Snyder, a decorated Marine who was tragically killed in Iraq?
04:56The wage of sin is death.
04:58The wage of sin is death.
04:59The wage of sin is death.
05:00The wage of sin is death.
05:01God himself struck that boy down to show us that homosexuality is a sin punishable by death.
05:09The wage of sin is death.
05:11The wage of sin is death.
05:13These people here had absolutely no respect, no consideration of how offensive their words were.
05:22And because of that, my client is entitled to recover for the intentional infliction of emotional harm that their conduct caused.
05:33Mr. Mensah?
05:34Thank you, Your Honor.
05:35Picketing the funeral of Matthew Snyder, Albert Snyder's son, was not a game to my clients.
05:42They knew by picketing they would be placing themselves in great danger by a lot of people who don't like the content of what they're saying.
05:50So why would they do it?
05:51That's because they believe that the U.S. military, by allowing homosexual and gay servicemen and women into its ranks, is actually placing the military itself in danger.
06:04It was not directed at Matthew Snyder, but at the military in general.
06:09And that's a key distinction here.
06:11Because, ladies and gentlemen, in this country, the First Amendment guarantees us the right.
06:17We can voice our opinion on matters of public concern without fear of being sued because it's that important.
06:25So we're allowed to say the things, the offensive, the hurtful, the homophobic language used by my clients, they're allowed to do that no matter how disturbing, no matter how offensive those comments might be.
06:39Mr. Backman, please call your first witness.
06:42Call Fred Phelps.
06:44Swear the witness, please.
06:49Raise your hand, please.
06:51You swear to tell the truth in these matters today?
06:53I'll do.
06:55You may inquire, sir.
06:57Thank you, Your Honor.
06:58You run the Westboro Baptist Church, do you not?
07:03Yes.
07:04And part and parcel of your teachings is to teach homophobic remarks to your congregation, correct?
07:13No, it is not.
07:14We teach religion.
07:15Well, did you teach religion on March 10th when you traveled from Kansas to Maryland to picket Matthew Snyder's funeral?
07:24Yes, sir.
07:25We were teaching religion.
07:27Uh, excuse me, folks.
07:29Are you, uh, are you at the Westboro Baptist Church?
07:33That's right, officer.
07:34Here to do God's work.
07:35Right.
07:36Right.
07:37Can I see your permit?
07:38Here you are.
07:41Well, it looks legit.
07:44Let's go over some ground rules.
07:46The only rule we need to concern ourselves with is the rule of God.
07:50And it is He and only He that I answer to.
07:53Actually, as an officer of the law here in the state of Maryland, you'll answer to me.
07:58And if you or one of your lemmings comes within just an inch of the thousand-foot mandated distance between here and that boy's funeral, I'll arrest all of you immediately.
08:08How's that sound, Padre?
08:10We understand, officer.
08:12We've exercised our right to free speech as American citizens hundreds of times.
08:17And just as Moses did at the base of Mount Sinai, we will deliver almighty God's message to the sinners of the world.
08:25I'm sure you will.
08:27And by the way, did you bring signs with you?
08:31Yes, we did.
08:32You made those signs up at the Westboro Church, is that right?
08:35Yes.
08:36Proud of those signs, aren't you?
08:38Yes, sir.
08:39And you didn't go to Maryland alone, did you?
08:42Nope.
08:43You took your daughters?
08:44Yes.
08:45And four of your grandchildren, is that right?
08:48Yes.
08:49And when you picket the military funerals, you make sure that the picketing exhibits your hatred towards homosexuals.
09:00Correct, sir?
09:01Yes, sir.
09:02And it is a hatred, isn't it, Mr. Phelps?
09:05Yes.
09:06Due to the disrespect of God.
09:08Well, you believe that homosexuality is an abomination pursuant to the Bible.
09:15Correct, sir?
09:16Yes.
09:17So, let me ask you this.
09:20Let's talk about the photographs that were taken of you at the picketing of Matthew Snyder's funeral.
09:29May I approach the witness, Your Honor?
09:31Yes, sir.
09:32I have three photographs.
09:33I'm going to mark plaintiffs one, two, and three.
09:35I've previously shown them the consul.
09:38Deemed marked.
09:40Showing you plaintiffs one for identification, Mr. Phelps.
09:43Do you recognize that is a photograph of you?
09:46Yes.
09:47Those are your words, are they?
09:49Yes.
09:50You were proud to put those words on a sign and then carry that sign a thousand miles from Kansas to Maryland, correct?
09:58Objection.
09:59He made them, he carried them, and he exhibited them.
10:01Correct, sir?
10:02Yes.
10:03And you believed them?
10:04Yes, Judge.
10:05Every word?
10:06Yes.
10:07Now, when that sign was displayed, you knew that Matthew Snyder's father was bearing his son that day, didn't you?
10:17Yes.
10:18You knew his son was killed in Iraq, didn't you?
10:21Yes.
10:22You didn't care whether or not that sign offended the man who was bearing his 20-year-old boy, did it?
10:29No, that is incorrect.
10:30We were there to send a message.
10:33So, my client's bearing his son, and you want this jury to believe that wasn't specifically targeting Albert Snyder in this case?
10:43No, we were there to send a message.
10:45The Bible says there are none so blind as those who will not see.
10:49We were there to open people's eyes to the holy word of Almighty God.
10:54Tell me, did you know Matt Snyder personally?
10:57Nope.
10:58Didn't matter to you?
11:00No, sir.
11:01We were there to send a message.
11:03No matter how hurtful that was to Matthew Snyder's father, correct?
11:07That is correct.
11:08No further questions?
11:10You may inquire.
11:12Thank you, Your Honor.
11:13Good morning, Mr. Phelps.
11:14Good morning, sir.
11:15Mr. Phelps, could you please tell the jury where you're from?
11:18I am from Topeka, Kansas.
11:19I have lived in Topeka since 1954.
11:22And I think I know the answer to this, but do you believe in God?
11:24Of course I do.
11:25Mr. Phelps, do you believe that the Bible prohibits homosexuality?
11:29I know it does.
11:30And what do you believe is God's opinion about the United States military since the U.S. military has been allowing in gay servicemen and women?
11:38God hates the military ever since it started allowing homosexuals to enlist.
11:43He will punish all Americans until the military kicks all the gays out of it and stops letting them in.
11:50Mr. Phelps, what are you doing to raise awareness for this issue that you perceive?
11:55I have been picketing funerals for over 20 years, ever since the military started letting homosexuals to join.
12:02I have picketed over 600 funerals.
12:04Mr. Phelps, when you picket these military funerals, does it matter to you whether the serviceman or woman who was being laid to rest was even gay?
12:13I don't care about that. I want people to know what the military is doing.
12:18So are you saying that your protest is against the military and not the individual Matthew Snyder in this case?
12:24That is correct.
12:25Why do you think it's so important to let the general public know about what's going on in the military?
12:31I need to make people aware of what is going on so that I can save this country.
12:36Do you feel you're saving lives by doing what you're doing?
12:39Yes, sir.
12:40Thank you, Mr. Phelps. I have no further questions.
12:42Witnesses excused.
12:43Call your next witness, Mr. Backman.
12:48I call Shirley Phelps Roper, Your Honor.
12:57Mr. Backman, you may inquire.
12:59Ms. Phelps, you...
13:00Sir, before we begin, I would just like it on the record that I strenuously object to the hostile, misleading, prejudicial, and frankly disgusting way you just badgered my father.
13:12Perhaps instead of the way you've repetitively attacked him with your accusations, you would do better to heed our warning about God's wrath?
13:20Well, you...
13:21Excuse me.
13:22Ms. Phelps, this is a courtroom.
13:25I understand, Your Honor.
13:26I...
13:27This is a courtroom.
13:30I control this courtroom.
13:32And what I want you to do is answer counsel's questions.
13:35You want to make a speech?
13:37Go outside.
13:38Clear?
13:39Clear.
13:40Perfect.
13:41Mr. Backman, you may inquire.
13:44Ms. Phelps, how many children do you have?
13:47Eleven.
13:48So, you, your father, and four of your children traveled on March 9th from Kansas to Maryland in order to picket Matthew Snyder's funeral, correct?
13:59Correct.
14:00That your beliefs are hate beliefs towards homosexuals.
14:05Isn't that right?
14:06You characterize us as hateful and homophobic.
14:09We are simply preaching the word of God as it says in the Bible.
14:13Now, if I were to characterize you, I would characterize you as offensive.
14:17Let's talk about your signs.
14:19Objection.
14:20Objection.
14:21Objection sustained.
14:22Strike that from the record.
14:23Counsel, careful.
14:24Let's talk about the signs that you and your children made.
14:27By the way, did your children help you make signs that you took from Kansas to Maryland?
14:32Absolutely they did.
14:34And those signs had such colorful language.
14:38We use harsh plain language to get attention so we can spread our message as far as possible.
14:43Are you proud of those signs?
14:45I am not ashamed of them at all.
14:47Are you proud of teaching your children that type of thought?
14:51You either teach your children the true word of God or you raise them by definition for the devil.
14:57So you write articles, do you not, ma'am, and you title those articles epics.
15:07Is that right?
15:08Yes.
15:09And you wrote an epic about your picketing activity in front of Matthew Snyder's funeral, didn't you?
15:16Yes, I did.
15:17And what did the epic say?
15:19It explained how we had done God's work.
15:21And in preaching God's work, you selected a particular website to post your epic, didn't you?
15:28Yes, sir.
15:29Why don't you turn to the jury, ma'am, and tell the jury what the name of the website is?
15:36It's called GodHatesFags.com.
15:38And I see what you're doing again with the emotional manipulation here.
15:43I'm sorry, I didn't get that.
15:44I understand the words is very offensive to most people, but you have to understand there is zero ambiguity in the Bible,
15:50about what God thinks about homosexuality.
15:52It is a mortal sin against him.
15:55And I would do and say whatever I must to help this nation understand the peril we're in.
15:59Hell goes on forever.
16:01The consequences are too severe.
16:03Repent or perish, sir.
16:05This goes for everybody.
16:07Repent or perish.
16:09No matter the hurt it causes, a father who just buried his son, correct?
16:16I am not responsible for Mr. Snyder watching the news after the funeral.
16:21Well, and you made sure that you talked to the press that day, didn't you?
16:25The press approached me to ask me questions.
16:28And you made sure those signs of yours were visible when the press interviewed you, didn't you?
16:33Again, our entire purpose here is to get our message out to as many people as possible.
16:38So what's the answer to my question?
16:40Yes, sir.
16:42And tell me something.
16:44Face the jury and tell them whether or not you have any remorse whatsoever for the type of language you used in picketing Matthew Snyder's funeral.
16:55Objection is an improper question to acquire a witness to face a jury or to face any particular...
17:00Do you want to rephrase the question, sir?
17:02Certainly.
17:03Is there any remorse whatsoever in any part of your body for the hurt you caused my client after bearing his 20-year-old son?
17:14I am not remorseful or I would not have done it.
17:19Any other questions, sir?
17:20No further questions.
17:21You may inquire, sir.
17:22Thank you, Your Honor.
17:23Good afternoon, ma'am.
17:25Good afternoon.
17:26Could you please tell us what your profession is?
17:28I'm a lawyer.
17:29And as a lawyer, who do you work for?
17:32Phelps Chartered, my family's firm.
17:34But I do very little client work except for the Westboro Baptist Church.
17:38And does part of your work with the Westboro Baptist Church involve picketing military funerals?
17:42Yes, sir.
17:43I've done that for 19 years.
17:44And why do you picket military funerals?
17:46Because God commands us to let people know what the military is doing so that we can stop it.
17:51See, the U.S. military is angering God by letting in homosexuals.
17:55And this is very simple.
17:56If the nation obeys the commandments of God, then God will bless this nation.
18:00But if the nation disobeys, God will bring his wrath down upon us.
18:04It is our duty to take to the streets and cry out loud in the public places.
18:09Spare not.
18:10Lift up thy voice like a trumpet.
18:12Be instant in season and out of season.
18:14Preach thy word.
18:15So I want to be sure I understand you.
18:16You're saying that because during the occasion of these military funerals you have lots of
18:21support and lots of support for the servicemen, you feel that's the time that you want to
18:25step in and say, hey, there's another side to this.
18:28Absolutely, yes.
18:29This country is more concerned with being politically correct than they are about their immortal souls.
18:35Ma'am, what sort of an audience do you hope to reach when you go to these military funerals?
18:38We hope to reach the largest audience possible to spread our word.
18:42And ironically, we have never had so large a platform as the one we've gotten from Albert Snyder suing us.
18:48The attention we've gotten from this has let our word go louder and farther than ever before.
18:53So, thank you.
18:54Now, during the picketing that morning with the other members of the Westboro Baptist Church,
19:00did either you or any of the other members of your protest group ever yell profanities at any of the mourners?
19:07Absolutely not.
19:08Now, Mr. Backman asked you about the signs.
19:11What did you mean by that?
19:12Okay, thank you.
19:13Let me explain.
19:14So many of our naysayers love to harp on us for the thank God for 9-11 signs,
19:18but that also, you have to understand, was just on a larger scale God's punishment against this depraved nation
19:25for letting homosexuals into the military and all the other sins that people in this country commit every single day.
19:32But, in the case of American soldiers in particular, you have to understand,
19:36these are people who have volunteered to fight for a country that has made God their number one enemy,
19:41that has institutionalized disobedience and rebellion against our Lord and Savior.
19:46I say they all deserve death.
19:49We are going to keep being the victim of God's punishments, His righteous wrath on this nation until we change our ways.
19:57So thank God for dead soldiers.
19:59Thank God for 9-11.
20:00Thank God for any disaster that could possibly change the hearts and minds of the people before it's too late.
20:06This nation is doomed.
20:08Hell goes on forever.
20:10I cannot say that enough.
20:12You have to see the big picture.
20:14So what you're saying is your protest, you feel that you're actually saving lives?
20:18Absolutely.
20:20Thank you, ma'am.
20:21Let me read, Director.
20:22Oh, no.
20:23Oh, no.
20:24I think we've heard quite enough.
20:25Yes.
20:26Witness is excused.
20:27Thank you very much.
20:28You may be seated.
20:31Mr. Backman?
20:32Jody Rush, please.
20:36You may inquire.
20:41Are you currently in the Marine Corps, sir?
20:43Yes, I am.
20:44And what is your rank?
20:45I'm a private.
20:46And did you have occasion to serve with Matthew Snyder in Iraq?
20:52Yes, sir.
20:53Did you know him well?
20:54I did very.
20:55We're very close.
20:56Tell me about Matthew Snyder.
20:59Did he serve with honesty and integrity when he was in the Corps?
21:03No question.
21:05And I want to focus your attention, Private, on the events of March 10th.
21:11You came back from Iraq to serve as a pallbearer for Matthew's funeral, did you not?
21:17That's correct.
21:18And describe for the jury Albert Snyder's emotional demeanor at the time of the funeral.
21:25Destroyed.
21:27I mean, he lost his only son.
21:31They were so close.
21:33I mean, it made me jealous.
21:35I wish I had a relationship with my father like that.
21:38They were so close.
21:39I could only imagine how he felt that day.
21:44And tell the jury whether or not you observed a difference in his emotional state when you were with him.
21:55The two of you saw the Phelps running their mouths in the signage that they were carrying.
22:01He was a shell of himself.
22:03He was broken.
22:04The man was vomiting.
22:08Do you need a moment?
22:09Yes.
22:10I think this is an appropriate place to stop, Your Honor.
22:21No further questions.
22:22Any questions?
22:23There are some questions here, Your Honor.
22:26Sir, I just want to be sure I understand this.
22:29You were with Mr. Snyder the whole day, March 10th, the day that Matthew was laid to rest.
22:34I was.
22:35Is that correct?
22:36Yes.
22:37Now, you were with him in the car in the funeral procession leading to the church that morning?
22:41Yes.
22:42I was riding with Mr. Snyder.
22:43Now, you didn't see either Mr. Phelps or his daughter, Miss Roper Phelps, that morning on the way to the funeral, did you?
22:51No, I did not.
22:52After the funeral services at the church, you then accompanied Mr. Snyder to the cemetery where Matthew was laid to rest?
23:00Yes.
23:01On the way to the cemetery, you didn't see any signs protesting the military on the way to the cemetery, did you?
23:08No.
23:09So, if I'm clear about this, my clients did not disrupt the funeral services of Matthew Snyder in any way, did they?
23:16No, they did not.
23:18Thank you, Mr. Rush.
23:19Witnesses excused.
23:22Mr. Backman?
23:23Call my client, Albert Snyder.
23:35You may inquire.
23:36All right, Albert, you have brought suit against Fred Phelps and Shirley Phelps in this case, is that right?
23:43Yes.
23:44For what?
23:45Intentional infliction of emotional distress.
23:49And that is over their conduct at your son's funeral or after your son's funeral?
23:56Yes.
23:57And Matthew died in Iraq, did he not?
23:59Yes.
24:00How old was Matthew when he died?
24:02He was 20 years old.
24:04He was 20 years old.
24:05And would it be fair to say that the two of you were close?
24:08Yes.
24:09Extremely.
24:10We spoke some four to five times per week prior to his deployment.
24:15How did you find out he died?
24:17Marines came to my home and notified me of his death.
24:22And how did you feel when you were informed?
24:26I became angry, upset, and depressed.
24:33Did you have to make funeral arrangements for your son?
24:36I did.
24:37And at the time of the funeral, Albert, were you made aware that there were picketers there?
24:42Not at the time, but I saw the tops of their signs.
24:46Were you able to identify the picketers later from the news?
24:51Yes, they were from the Westboro Baptist Church.
24:56Tell me about the signs that you saw on the news, Albert.
24:59What did you take the words, God hates fags, to mean?
25:04That my son was gay.
25:06Was your son gay?
25:08No, he was not.
25:09You saw this an hour after putting your son in the ground, didn't you?
25:14Yes.
25:16Later, later, after the funeral, about an hour after the funeral, after I arrived at home,
25:22I saw in full view the vulgar and offensive signs they were carrying.
25:28Albert, did you hear the defendant, Fred Phelps, speak on the news?
25:33Yes.
25:34His mouth moved a mile a minute, spewing his hatred and his homophobic remarks.
25:39It was so wrong.
25:42I was grieving over the loss of my son.
25:48It made me physically ill.
25:51I actually threw up. I was so sick to my stomach.
25:54I felt incredible depression.
25:59My son loved this country.
26:04He fought and died for the freedoms and rights that we enjoy.
26:08He fought and died for the freedoms and the rights that the protestors enjoy.
26:14He defended their right to protest.
26:17They should only say, thank you for your service.
26:24Do you still feel the emotional effects today from what you observed the Phelps do?
26:30Yes. I still suffer every day over the denigration and defamation of my son, who gave his life for this country, paying the ultimate price, unlike that scum, Fred Phelps and his family members.
26:55Can you quantify for the jury, Albert, the pain and suffering you've endured at the hands of these two over here?
27:03That's an impossibility for me.
27:05My son was everything to me.
27:08They destroyed his memory and the good he represented.
27:13Were you proud of your boy?
27:15Yes, I was indeed.
27:17I was proud of my boy.
27:22Anything else, Counselor?
27:25No, Your Honor.
27:26Do you have any questions?
27:27I do, Your Honor.
27:28Good afternoon, Mr. Snyder.
27:30Good afternoon, sir.
27:31Now, you described for us on direct examination, you told the jury that raw pain that you felt when you first heard the news that your son Matthew had died in Iraq.
27:43Yes.
27:44You described it as angry, upset and depressed.
27:48Is that accurate?
27:49That's correct.
27:50Correct.
27:51Now, when you went to the ceremony, you saw signs on the way to the church and on the way from the church to the ceremony showing support for Matthew and what he had given to our nation, right?
28:04Yes.
28:05But even all of that support, you were still angry, upset and depressed that entire day, right?
28:12Yes.
28:13Now, did you see either of these two or any of the members of the Westboro Baptist Church on the street that day during the service?
28:22No.
28:23You didn't see any of them that day until later on you turned on the news. Is that right?
28:28Yes.
28:29So, after reading those offensive signs, were you still angry, upset and depressed?
28:35Yes, I was felt that way all day long.
28:38So, after reading and seeing the positive signs showing support for Matthew, you were angry, upset and depressed.
28:45And after seeing the signs from my clients, you were still angry, upset and depressed, right?
28:50Yes.
28:51And that was as a result of having lost your son in service to our nation.
28:55Yes.
28:56Thank you, sir.
28:57Witnesses excused. Thank you very much, Mr. Snyder.
29:00Any other witnesses, sir?
29:01No, your honor.
29:02There's time the plaintiff rests.
29:04Mr. Mincer.
29:05The defense rests.
29:06Closing arguments?
29:07Mr. Backman.
29:08Thank you, your honor.
29:10Ladies and gentlemen, this is my opportunity to speak to you and to sum up the evidence and really apply the facts to the law so that you're able to reach a verdict in this case.
29:23This is a case about intentional infliction of emotional distress.
29:28The defense lawyer wants to turn it into a case about free speech.
29:33Hate is not free speech.
29:36You can't spew, you can't vomit hatred and then claim it's protected under the First Amendment.
29:44Mr. Mincer wants you to believe that his clients' comments were targeting the U.S. military as a whole.
29:54They weren't targeting the Snyder family or his son, Matthew Snyder.
29:59Nothing could be further from the truth.
30:02It's a smoke screen.
30:04How do you hide behind the Bible and make a sign and show it an hour after you have a parent bearing his son?
30:14Put yourself in his shoes while you're back in that deliberation room and ask yourself, if you were in his shoes, how would you quantify the amount of money to award for that kind of intentional infliction of emotional distress?
30:34And my argument to you folks, there's not enough money in the world.
30:39Think about it and come back with a reasonable verdict to compensate Albert Snyder for the pain and the suffering he had to endure in listening to their vile, offensive vitriol.
30:59Mr. Mincer.
31:01Thank you, Your Honor.
31:02The defendants of the Westboro Baptist Church were involved in a peaceful and a lawful protest on March 10th.
31:08They did not disrupt the services either when poor Mr. Snyder was on his way to the church or away from the services.
31:16Mr. Snyder did not even know they were there until later on.
31:21But the key issue here is where was their protest directed?
31:26Was it directed at Mr. Snyder and Matthew or was it directed at the military?
31:31Because in spite of what Mr. Backman has told you, maintain your focus here on the issue because this is the exact thing that all of us have a right to do.
31:43And that is to air our views on issues that have a public concern like the military, no matter how offensive they might be.
31:55Thank you, Mr. Mincer.
31:57Members of the jury, you have now heard all of the evidence in this case.
32:02The First Amendment protection of free speech has limits, including vulgar, offensive and shocking statements.
32:11You must decide whether the defendant's actions would be highly offensive to a reasonable person.
32:17You must decide whether the acts and statements were extreme and outrageous and whether they were so offensive and shocking as to not be entitled to First Amendment protection.
32:29Should you decide that the plaintiff is entitled to a judgment in his favor, you shall consider the monetary amount of those damages.
32:38You may now retire.
32:41Before we get to the verdict, I want to be clear.
32:44You'll notice the very specific language the judge, played by me, gave to the jury.
32:50It seemed as if the jury was being asked to decide and define the words free speech.
32:57Well, that's actually kind of unusual for a judge to ask a jury.
33:02Usually, juries are instructed to find whether the facts have satisfied the legal standard of law.
33:08But this judge actually asked the jury to interpret the law.
33:13Just so that you know, that's not me freelancing here.
33:17That's what the actual trial judge told the jury.
33:20Now let's hear the verdict.
33:22Kevin, the jury has returned.
33:24May I have the verdict sheet, please?
33:26The jury has decided as follows.
33:43The jury has decided that the defendants have inflicted on the plaintiff extreme emotional distress.
33:51The jury awards the plaintiff $10,900,000, $2.9 million in compensatory damages, $6 million punitive damages, and $2 million for emotional distress.
34:07I thank the jury for their deliberation and consideration and for their service.
34:12This court is adjourned.
34:14The Westboro Baptist Church kept on protesting military funerals and appealed Snyder's $10.9 million verdict.
34:27Two years later, the judgment was overturned, and the appeals court adopted a new definition of vicious speech.
34:35The court ruled that speech in a public place on a matter of public concern should be protected speech under the First Amendment.
34:44This caused a huge public outroar, and the case went all the way to the Supreme Court of the United States.
34:52Counsel, note your appearance.
34:55Good morning, judges.
34:56For the appellant, the Westboro Baptist Church, I'm Dan Menser.
35:00Good morning, Your Honors.
35:01Larry Backman on behalf of the Respondent, Albert Snyder.
35:05Mr. Menser, your opening statement.
35:06Thank you, Your Honor.
35:07The protest by my client of the funeral of Matthew Snyder was, to most of us, offensive.
35:14But you don't get to decide that.
35:16You don't have to decide that to decide this case.
35:19The controlling issue here is for Your Honors to decide whether or not the protest itself was aimed at the public, the military, or a private citizen, Matthew Snyder and his father, Albert.
35:33And you don't have to look very deep to figure out where this protest was aimed.
35:38This protest, like every other protest my clients have been involved in in the last 20 years, is aimed at the military.
35:44That's why I urge this court to make a ruling here consistent with your rulings in the past, that speech involving matters of a public concern is protected.
35:55It's allowed.
35:56And yes, it comes at a cost.
35:58It comes at a cost that a guy like Albert Snyder, who gave so much for this country, who now has to go to his funeral and perhaps hear people sharing their ignorant, homophobic views.
36:11But yes, the First Amendment is that important to allow that type of speech.
36:16And that's why it's important that this court reverse that jury verdict and give us our free speech back.
36:24Mr. Backman, do you wish to give a statement?
36:27I do, Your Honor.
36:28Please.
36:29To reverse the jury verdict in this case at this time would be an abomination of justice.
36:38Westboro's conduct, their signage, their speech in this case, was directly targeted to Matt Snyder and his family.
36:50That is the only interpretation this court can draw from signage that said, thank God for dead soldiers.
36:59A thousand feet outside my client's funeral for his son.
37:04How this court could find that that type of signage is directed to the public at large as opposed to private citizens would be beyond belief.
37:15This is hate speech.
37:16Hate speech is not entitled to First Amendment protection.
37:21And for this court to rule otherwise would constitute a grave, grave injustice.
37:29I urge this court to uphold the jury verdict in this case and rule in favor of the respondent, Albert Snyder.
37:37Thank you, Mr. Backman.
37:39We will now retire to deliberate.
37:45We have reached a unanimous verdict.
37:48The First Amendment does not apply only to our friends and speech we like.
37:53It protects speech that is sometimes vile and abhorrent and that represents some of the worst tendencies in society.
38:00That their goal in life is to show up and protest the funerals of those who have given their lives in defense of this country does indeed shock the conscience.
38:10Respondent's son, Matthew Snyder, fought and gave his life so that these bigots have the right to protest.
38:17We don't give short shrift to the pain that hate caused respondent and his family.
38:21We honor Matthew's sacrifice and our role as a court is to uphold the legal principles for which he fought and died.
38:29The situation is ironic, but his sacrifice was heroic.
38:33As repugnant as appellant speech may have been, it undoubtedly involved matters of public concern and is thus entitled to heightened First Amendment protection.
38:42Our ruling should not be construed as a tacit endorsement of appellant speech.
38:47It is because Matthew's sacrifice was so noble that we must look beyond that.
38:53This decision honors the work of those who have fought and died for this country, even if it shields from liability those hateful souls who attack them.
39:01The First Amendment does not just protect the good, the right and the just.
39:05Sometimes the First Amendment protects the fool and the bigot.
39:09So it does here.
39:11Our Constitution is bigger than the hatreds of those who would burn it.
39:15We must honor it.
39:17Therefore, we must reverse the jury's verdict and dismiss respondents' claim against appellants.
39:23The First Amendment is one of the two in the United States.
39:29The First Amendment
39:42of americans to freely voice their opinion is not without limitation i have no doubt that the courts
39:49will forever act as an umpire as to what does and what does not qualify as protected free speech
39:56those changes will always come about through court cases just like this
40:26so
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