Eno Sarris

6/21/2025

Transcript

00:00All right, here we go. Boston Red Sox are in town and joining us on the River Islands guest line.

00:04And out at the game is Eno Saris of The Athletic, one of our favorite baseball writers and talkers and just, you know, people.

00:12He's a musician, all of the things. So, you know, thanks for coming on the show. How are you doing?

00:18I'm doing great. I'm here at Oracle and, you know, it's been fun watching all the standing ovations for Devers.

00:26It's a real excitement. Well, is it fun watching the faces of all of the Boston reporters who have arrived today?

00:33Because I feel like they've got a little something under their skin, you know?

00:38Oh, my God. The press conference today was pretty annoying.

00:42It was question after question about what happened in Boston, what happened in Boston.

00:47And basically, Devers saying over and over again, I'm not here to talk about the past.

00:51I tried to ask him something about, you know, playing in this park.

00:55And he said, well, I've got real power. You know, it's going to go out.

00:58You know, if I touch it, it's going to go out of any park.

01:00So, you know, I was trying to ask him something different than, you know, what happened in Boston.

01:05That has given me flashbacks to the Mark McGuire famous line, you know?

01:10Yeah, 100 percent. I was sitting there going, oh, my God, I'm not here to talk about the past.

01:15Mark McGuire.

01:16And you can ask him however many ways you want.

01:19And I guess if you gave him truth serum, your assessment on what the answer actually would be

01:25if Rafi Devers actually told the truth about what happened.

01:29I mean, I think that we can actually figure it out from what happened in San Francisco.

01:34So in San Francisco, what we've heard is that Buster and the team came to him and said,

01:40we have like one of the worst OPSs at first base in the big league.

01:45We have a real need there.

01:47And even our kid that's coming up, you know, he needs to work on his glove, you know?

01:52So like we have an open position for you here.

01:55And it's not we need you to do it for three months.

01:57It's you could probably play a lot of first base in San Francisco for the next few years, you know?

02:02So why don't you at least – and we have an organizational philosophy that like people play in a lot of different positions.

02:07So, you know, why don't you get used to first base if that's what you want to do?

02:11And that was a better way to talk to him.

02:13I think in Boston it was a little bit more – like I remember I looked back at a Passan tweet where they said –

02:20you know, Passan said they signed Alex Bregman and Alex Bregman is going to play second base.

02:25Say sources.

02:26And you're like, oh, what?

02:28So you haven't talked to Devers about this yet?

02:30You know, like, oops.

02:33So they didn't do things in the right order, I think.

02:35Like, they didn't treat him – I mean, you've got to treat him with a little bit of respect.

02:39He is your highest paid player.

02:41He's a stud.

02:43And, you know, you've got to sell him on things.

02:46You don't just tell him what to do even though he's an employee.

02:49I get that part.

02:50But, like, you sell him on things.

02:52You know, Saris, the athletic, he's down at Oracle Park getting ready for the game tonight.

02:56You know, I think you lay it out.

02:57And that's 90% of it for me right there.

02:59But can we also add in, like, isn't it fair to look at the Red Sox as an organization right now

03:06and sort of say, look, this is not the first time this has happened.

03:11Like, look how many stars you've either sent out of town or upset or whatever in just the last few years.

03:19And for me, that kind of says a lot in terms of if you want, which side you're going to take in all of this.

03:25Oh, I mean, yeah, that's an ongoing conversation.

03:28But the Red Sox, like the Giants, are teams that should flex their financial muscle.

03:34They should be – they don't have to be the A's.

03:36The A's are like, oh, yeah, you're good for us for a couple years and then you're gone.

03:39They don't have to be the Rays where they're, like, constantly trading everybody away.

03:42They don't have to be those guys.

03:44They want to establish stars.

03:45They're here for a long time, sell jerseys, put people in seats.

03:49And, you know, I think the Red Sox and Giants are both teams that should have long-term guys under contract.

03:54And, yeah, it's been sad to see Xander Bogarts go and just – and see Devers go, you know, now.

04:02And they've just done it – the sale, you know, they've just done it over and over again.

04:06And now the Giants are a team that is interested in these long-term deals.

04:10And it seems like it coincided with Buster Posey taking over for Farhan Zaidi.

04:14Do you think it's just that simple that the organization now has a philosophical shift?

04:19Or are they just now able to get these deals done of recent?

04:23I think there's – you know, I think that Farhan was a little bit more risk-averse.

04:28And so he – you know, you saw it with the Carlos Correa deal.

04:30He had a deal in place.

04:32And then he was – he looked at the risk of it.

04:34He looked at the medicals and he said, nope, I'm out.

04:37And Buster, I think, if you want to be honest, I think the Willie Adamas deal was slightly an overpay.

04:43There's risk there.

04:44The bat is not always super great, but he's a great player.

04:49He's a great person for the clubhouse.

04:51I think it was a decent signing, but there was risk there.

04:54And he was – Buster was willing to be like, hey, I don't care if we pay $20 million more than the next team

04:59and there's the risk in that.

05:01I'm going to do it.

05:01So a little bit less risk-aversion, I think.

05:04You know, where does it go next?

05:05You know, I saw – and this was just a side quip.

05:08But John Heyman earlier today was talking about the potential of Kyle Tucker free agency.

05:14And one of the first teams he brought up as an interested party was the San Francisco Giants.

05:19Do you think that a spending frenzy is going to follow this?

05:25Maybe.

05:26I mean, it's – you do have like $100-plus million in four players a year, you know, now with that core.

05:35So I would assume it's a little bit more like, you know, if Lucas Giolito or like if there's a pitcher that wants a one-year –

05:42remember back to like the Rodon deal, you know?

05:45I think that they'll spend more to kind of, you know, around their core.

05:50So I don't know that they will go and add another contract on top of that.

05:54If you look at it right now, they have about $20 or $30 million between them and the first luxury tax number.

06:00I haven't actually looked at next year to see how much more money they have to spend.

06:04But, you know, I don't know – I think they'll want to stay under that luxury tax number.

06:08But at least they have tried to flirt with that in the past.

06:11But, I mean, it's fun to think about.

06:13That would be a great addition.

06:14Yeah, no doubt.

06:15And, you know, they still have another month and change until the deadline.

06:18So they might look to add a little bit more.

06:21Just looking at what they have right now, though, you know, this team today stacking up against the Dodgers and Padres

06:27and the rest of the National League, are they a viable threat here to make noise in October?

06:32Yes, yes, they are.

06:34They have the best bullpen, I think, in baseball.

06:36That's why I've been saying it since March.

06:39And their rotation is healthier and it stacks up with any of those rotations.

06:45I think I would probably – if you're just comparing the three teams, right now at least, best rotation.

06:51Right now, best bullpen.

06:52And, you know, the Dodgers have this asterisk of, like, oh, we have all of our great arms that are injured

06:58that could come back at some point.

07:00So that will make it tighter.

07:02But in terms of pitching, I think they've got the class of the division,

07:07and now they've brought hitting up to where it's competitive with those guys.

07:10I mean, I still think you've got to get the Dodgers lineup over anybody.

07:14But now they're competitive.

07:17Eno Saras, the Athletic, with us here on Willard and Dibs.

07:21Eno, there was a tweet earlier this week.

07:23It got lost in all of our work because Rafi Devers got acquired,

07:26and we were talking about that the whole time.

07:29But there was a tweet about a week ago from Andrew McCutcheon,

07:32and he said that it's been confirmed with him by someone in the world of producing baseballs

07:40that the ball is dead this year.

07:43What do you know about that?

07:45It's of particular interest to Giants fans,

07:48considering that they have a hard time scoring runs.

07:52Yeah, it's pretty funny because about two days before that tweet,

07:56we produced a story where we had found that drag is higher on the ball than ever before,

08:03and about four feet are missing on, you know,

08:06if you're talking about a 330-foot fly ball, about four feet are missing this year

08:10due to the drag being higher on the ball.

08:12And this is something that can happen due to manufacturing

08:15or can be due to the seams being higher.

08:18And for that story, we had a source that was at the Pirates meeting that McCutcheon was at.

08:24And so when McCutcheon tweeted that out, we were like,

08:28oh, yeah, McCutcheon wasn't our source,

08:32but that meeting was one where Pirates players were interacting with Rob Manfred

08:37and asking him why is the ball different,

08:39and Manfred said we know it's different and we don't know why.

08:43So that was an interesting tweet for us.

08:46But, yeah, the ball is different this year.

08:48It's not flying as far.

08:49Is it manufacturing variants or is it maybe some shenanigans?

08:53I know MLB owns Rawlings.

08:56Do you get any sense that it's either one of those two factors

08:59that makes the ball so different year to year?

09:02I mean, if you take them at their word for it,

09:04it's something that's different that they haven't pinpointed yet.

09:08And there is a fair amount of ball-to-ball variation and batch-to-batch variation.

09:13But it's very clear, if you look at the drag,

09:15that the ball has been the same for about three years.

09:18And they've done the humidors.

09:20They've looked at how they store the balls.

09:21They've changed a lot of things to make the ball be the same every year.

09:25And they did pretty well for three years.

09:27And now we have the most drag that we've ever seen on a ball.

09:30So there's something that definitely changed.

09:32And I think if you want to be at all conspiratorial about it,

09:36like the thing that you could be is like,

09:38hey, they also changed the strike zone this year.

09:41They changed the way that umpires are being judged.

09:44And that changed the strike zone.

09:45So the strike zone is the smallest it's ever been.

09:47And then the ball now doesn't travel as far.

09:50And what will a smaller strike zone with a ball that doesn't travel as far do?

09:55It will create more or fewer strikeouts without a home run explosion, right?

10:00The pitchers have to come into a smaller zone more often.

10:03And the ball is a little bit deader, so it won't go out as much.

10:06And that's something they want.

10:08That is something they definitely want.

10:10They told everybody, we want fewer strikeouts in the game.

10:13So I'm just connecting some dots here.

10:15I don't necessarily think that they wanted to do this on purpose.

10:18But it sort of lines up with what they want to do,

10:21so they're not that concerned about it.

10:23Okay, I get the ball in play more.

10:25I don't get the ball not going out more.

10:28Like around sports, everything that we've seen in the last decade plus

10:32are leagues making rule changes to create more offense.

10:37Why would baseball do that?

10:40Yeah, you're right.

10:42Maybe I've got that one wrong.

10:44But, you know, we did have, in 2019, the ball with the least drag.

10:50And we broke all home run records.

10:52And there was a fair amount of bellyaching about that being too many home runs.

10:56And that was the year when the league average ERA was like a 4-6 or something.

11:01It was a crazy year.

11:03And I don't think that there's really the stomach to go back to 2019.

11:06So I think there is a line to walk there.

11:09I agree with you generally, though.

11:10It's totally most sports want more offense.

11:12Is part of the issue that it's too difficult to hit now?

11:17Mark and I have had this discussion where so many guys are throwing 100 or 100-plus,

11:22and you've got less time than ever to react and to swing.

11:26Is that something that Major League Baseball is addressing with this smaller strike zone as well?

11:30I mean, I think that their stated goal is have fewer strikeouts, and they're working on it.

11:37The bigger things that they're considering are changing the mound, moving the mound back.

11:43That is definitely on the table.

11:45They're not testing it yet, so it's not something that, like, is close or anything.

11:50But they're thinking about it.

11:51There's a prominent research where we think they should throw a heavier ball because the heavier ball will slow their arm down,

11:59and they won't be able to throw it as hard.

12:01And he thinks that will help injuries, too, because they won't throw as hard.

12:05So, you know, they're definitely in the information-gathering stages.

12:11I do think that, you know, basically the strike zone thing is a little bit of a precursor to automatic balls and strikes.

12:18And I think that next year we're going to have the challenge zone.

12:22And if you look at this year's strike zone, it looks exactly like the challenge strike zone in the minor leagues.

12:28So I think they were just preparing us for what the strike zone will look like when,

12:32I don't know if you know what the challenge system,

12:34but the hitter gets to, like, hit his helmet and challenge three times a game.

12:38And it's really fun, actually, because the challenge, when he hits his helmet, it's immediate.

12:43You have to do it immediately, and then it goes up on the screen,

12:46and everybody gets to watch if it was a strike or not in real time.

12:49So it's actually kind of a fun thing that I think will actually improve baseball.

12:53We're talking with Eno Saris, The Athletic.

12:55You're listening to 95.7 The Game, KGMZ FM and HD1 San Francisco,

12:58an Odyssey Sports Station in the home of Golden State Warriors and Valkyries.

13:02Always live on the free Odyssey app, coming to you live from the Laughing Monk Studios.

13:06Eno, I want to go back to Rafi Devers and just get your opinion on this.

13:11With all of the back and forth that has happened, of course,

13:15San Franciscans are going to take the side of Rafi Devers.

13:18That's our new guy, right?

13:20But is there any concern that as the relationship goes,

13:25the same type of thing could happen?

13:30I mean, there were a lot of questions today about,

13:33does he rather play DH and would he rather play first?

13:36And he was very diplomatic about, you know,

13:39I'll just play wherever they need me and I'm open to both

13:41and I don't prefer one or the other.

13:43I think it's a pretty big wake-up call to be traded in your career.

13:47It makes you realize that nobody's untouchable.

13:50So that might actually make some changes to Devers' personality, you know,

13:55just being like, oh my gosh, okay, all right.

13:57I can be traded at any moment.

13:59I need to think about that.

14:00And then lastly, I mean,

14:02I think the one risk is that there is a fair amount of money tied up here

14:06in what could be a DH.

14:09That does kind of lock the roster up sometimes.

14:12But this team was so made for it because it's pretty good in the field

14:17and they've really improved.

14:20Like center was a problem and short was a problem.

14:22They've really improved all those things.

14:24And what they just needed was a bat anywhere, a bat that fits anywhere.

14:27And that is Devers.

14:28He just wants to hit, you know,

14:30and you can see him take those daddy hacks in games.

14:33And, you know, that's what he wants to do.

14:35So I think it'll work out.

14:36The bat played in Boston for sure.

14:38And a lot of those opposite field slaps off of the monster.

14:42How does his bat play in this ballpark in particular,

14:45where he does have some good power to left field,

14:48right field can be difficult as you get in the alleys.

14:51How does he and his approach really match up to Oracle Park?

14:55Yeah, that's what my question was today.

14:57And he basically said, I have the kind of power where if I touch it, it'll go.

15:00And I kind of agree with him.

15:03I mean, he's one of the leaders in bat speed.

15:06He's got elite bat speed, you know, 73-mile-an-hour bat speed.

15:09He's a leader in exit velocities.

15:12He really hits the ball hard.

15:13So he can get the ball out of any park.

15:15And interestingly enough, I was looking at how, like, his bowels in play

15:19and how they, you know, how they would sit over this.

15:22I think it might actually work out.

15:23Because if you think about it, Triple's Alley is the one thing he wants to avoid.

15:26Where Triple's Alley is is actually the worst part of Fenway, too.

15:30You know, Fenway has this weird cutout in right center

15:34that it's actually the difficult, most difficult part of Fenway to hit the ball out.

15:39So they actually, there's some similarities between these two parks,

15:42even though they really don't seem that similar at all.

15:46And, you know, people have told us that right-handers trying to go out to left field,

15:50that it's actually okay.

15:51Like, you can hit it out to left field.

15:53So maybe he will have some opposite-field homers,

15:55or maybe it'll be more doubles to the opposite field and homers in splash.

16:00But I fully expect him to hit a bunch of splash homers and improve this lineup.

16:05Love it. Love it.

16:06Hey, Eno, great to have you on, man.

16:08Great stuff. Enjoy the game tonight.

16:11All right. Thank you.

16:11Okay. That's Eno Sars of The Athletic.

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