Jones & Keefe: Is Mike Vrabel a top 10 head coach?

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00:00Peter Schrager on the situation for Drake May.

00:04He's not worried about the four picks because he's got Josh McDaniels.

00:07He's got Mike Vrabel.

00:09Can't think of a better spot for Drake May.

00:11I could definitely think of some.

00:12I mean, for sure there are better spots.

00:15No better spots for him.

00:16For a quarterback?

00:17You know, like McVay or Shanahan?

00:20You don't have to like those guys, but for a quarterback and an offense?

00:23Andy Reid.

00:24I feel like there's a lot of better spots.

00:26Like what?

00:27Like from the guy that ran the Raiders into the ground and the guy that ran the Broncos

00:32into the ground and the guy that played, you know, Ryan Tannehill and Marcus Mariota, best

00:36spot in the league.

00:37It's a better spot than last year.

00:39I agree with that.

00:40And it's a significantly better spot than last year.

00:43What did he say there?

00:43The Delta?

00:44Which I am.

00:45I'm loosely familiar with that term, but the difference of a jet blue guy, the difference

00:49between coaching a year ago to this year, he is going to be more well coached.

00:53There's no doubt about that.

00:54You can't be more poorly coached than a year ago.

00:56It's a much better baseline.

00:58But let's not go too far with it.

00:59No.

01:00Please.

01:00I mean, we're going a little overboard there.

01:04But I think, you know, last year he is a rookie adjusting to the NFL and he had what

01:12he had around him.

01:13So like that had to be a little shell shocking.

01:16And so you get through that and now you come into this year and you're like, all right,

01:19this is a much more professional, buttoned up, guys are in like the right roles, right?

01:25Like Mayo shouldn't have been a head coach and Van Pelt shouldn't have been a coordinator.

01:28And it's like, that's what you got.

01:30And now you have guys that have done both of these jobs for years and years and years.

01:34So you're automatically in a better situation, let alone the talent around you appears to

01:39be better too.

01:396-1-7, 7-7-9, 7-9-3-7.

01:42People say, and I complained a lot about Mac Jones.

01:44Now I'm going to rip Drake May.

01:46Well, that just feels consistent.

01:47Trust me.

01:47If Mac threw four picks at an OTA, I would rip it.

01:50And I acknowledge it's just one passing camp in the middle of the offseason.

01:56It's not the most significant day on the NFL calendar, but you should be able to acknowledge

02:00he turned it over a lot last year.

02:01And he did.

02:02He had the 10 picks last year, had the two lost fumbles.

02:05Turnovers were an issue.

02:07And some people are explaining away some of them.

02:09I mean, a couple picks for sure.

02:10Hunter Henry handed one away.

02:11Kayshawn Booty handed one away.

02:13I'm sure he got away with some too, if you want to go back and really break it down.

02:16So the number was the number.

02:18And I don't feel like we played that game with all the other quarterbacks.

02:20When Josh Allen threw picks early in his career, we mocked him.

02:23So I was telling you, he needs to clean it up.

02:25And yesterday didn't feel like a step towards that.

02:28And I wonder if we take enough of a critical look when we do our win totals, Keith, for

02:33instance, you have them for 10.

02:34I have them for a lot.

02:35We go through the schedule.

02:36We're like, win this, win that.

02:37Look at this quarterback.

02:38Look at that quarterback.

02:39Look at this team.

02:40The Patriots are definitely better than they were a year ago.

02:43They're more talented.

02:43They're more well coached.

02:44It's an easier schedule.

02:45They should win more games.

02:47Have we taken a critical enough look at May and what he's actually going to be this year?

02:51I think that's a fair question.

02:52Yeah, maybe we haven't.

02:54And I also think, and somebody on Twitch pointed this out the other day, and they're right.

02:58When other teams are doing the same exercise, when the Giants and the Browns and the Raiders

03:03and the Steelers are doing their, who are you playing?

03:05They're like, oh, the Patriots?

03:06Like, oh, that's a good week.

03:07Right.

03:07So Carolina Panthers fans probably look at it and go, the four win Patriots and Drake May?

03:14Yeah.

03:14Now, I think they would be like, oh, they have a competent, successful NFL head coach there

03:19now.

03:19And they did spend a lot in free agency.

03:22Not all the teams that they played spent a lot in free agency.

03:25And some of those teams even lost some of the good players that they had.

03:28So, I mean, that one works.

03:30This is a good tweet from Matthew.

03:32He says, Patriots fans are so warped that they went from the greatest quarterback of

03:38all time to soup can throws from Cam to a crybaby in Mac, who became the worst quarterback

03:43ever.

03:44So, having a glimpse of Drake May doing something competent last year has exploded fans' brains.

03:49There's a little bit of, I don't think we, and it's not, I'm not even, it's not even

03:53being, I'm not criticizing.

03:56It's hard to watch Tom Brady for 20 years.

03:58Yeah.

03:59And then watch any other quarterback play and like properly even be able to rate it.

04:02That's fair.

04:03So, Mac Jones had, or so yeah, so you have the Cam Newton year and you're like, what the

04:06hell was even this?

04:07He's like running.

04:08People are like, well, you're not including the rushing touchdowns.

04:10That was the big argument.

04:11Remember?

04:11You're like talking up Cam Newton.

04:14It's like, he's throwing like five touchdowns.

04:16Right.

04:16You need to throw more touchdowns.

04:18And then you go to Mac Jones and you see like a little, maybe a glimpse.

04:21He's a first round pick.

04:22So, you're trying to talk yourself into it.

04:23And then that just falls off a cliff afterwards.

04:26And then last year, you start the year with Jacoby Brissett, which was such a pain in the

04:30ass.

04:30And then you finally go to Drake May.

04:32And you're right.

04:33There were times where it looked pretty good.

04:34So, you're trying to really talk yourself into it.

04:37Yeah.

04:37Here's the thing.

04:37And here's how I would say it.

04:38I still believe in Drake May.

04:39Yeah.

04:39I believed in him a ton in the pre-draft process.

04:42I believed in him when I saw it last year.

04:45He should have started over Jacoby Brissett, like you just said, week one.

04:47No brainer.

04:48I liked what I saw in large part in year one, but it wasn't perfect.

04:52He didn't win enough games and he turned it over too much.

04:54So, he's got to make strides towards that in year two.

04:56Even though I still believe in him, people act like he's a lock.

05:00And I just, I think that's what I'm pushing back on.

05:02Like, the guy's not a lock.

05:04We've seen quarterbacks come out and have good rookie years.

05:06Good quarterbacks.

05:07Baker Mayfield's a great quarterback.

05:08Awesome.

05:09Keith doesn't like him as much as I do.

05:10No, I love him.

05:10I'm going to update my rankings for the season.

05:12But Baker Mayfield, ping pong between great season, bad season, great season, bad season.

05:18And he hasn't really found his footing until he's on, what, his third or fourth team.

05:21Well, and like fifth coordinator, fifth coach.

05:24He's played for a million different guys.

05:25He's not, let's just not act like Drake May is a lock.

05:27I believe in him.

05:28Yeah, yeah.

05:28But I'll tell you right now, I'm not sure that's going to come to fruition.

05:32I'm also not sure about the confidence in Mike Vrabel.

05:34Keith?

05:35Is Mike Vrabel a top 10 coach?

05:36Let me just ask that as a blanket statement.

05:38Do you feel like he's a top 10 coach in the NFL?

05:40Without doing the actual breakdown one through 32, I would say no.

05:44Okay.

05:45I don't think so either.

05:46But I don't think it's far from there.

05:47Like that to play the semantic game.

05:49I bet if I did the exercise, he's probably 12.

05:51So like somewhere in there, 13.

05:52Here's the reason I asked.

05:53Part of it was sparked by what Schrager said coming back.

05:56And part of it was, I saw this making the rounds on social media yesterday.

05:59It's just a random coaching draft they did.

06:01I like a good draft.

06:02Greg Rosenthal, NFL.com.

06:04So here's their top 10.

06:06You tell me if you think Vrabel's better than some of these names, okay?

06:08Yep.

06:09Andy Reid.

06:09I think he's better.

06:10Sean McVay.

06:11Better.

06:11Dan Campbell.

06:13So better.

06:14Better.

06:14But like there's something up there.

06:16You got to give Campbell the edge today.

06:17Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

06:18But this year, by the end of the year, we might look at it and go, yeah, Campbell wasn't really

06:22that great.

06:23It was all Ben Johnson.

06:24Right now, if you could swap the coaches, would you?

06:27Like in this particular situation, I know that's a different question, but like, I don't

06:32know if I would swap him, but like for the sake of this exercise, I'll say he's better.

06:36He's had a lot of success.

06:37I think I would swap him, but we might talk about this very differently after this year.

06:40I acknowledge that.

06:41Kevin O'Connell.

06:42Oh, I love him.

06:43Shanahan.

06:44Yes.

06:45Shanahan's got issues, but he's a better coach.

06:47He's got a ceiling, it seems like, but yeah, he's better.

06:50John Harbaugh.

06:51Yes.

06:51Better.

06:52Sean Payton.

06:53No, I don't like Sean Payton.

06:55You'll take Vrabel over Payton.

06:56Yeah, yeah, yeah.

06:57I don't like Sean Payton.

06:58Payton just went to the playoffs with a rookie quarterback drafted after Drake May.

07:01Okay.

07:02Oh, you got Bo Nix.

07:03Okay.

07:03I love Bo Nix.

07:04I don't love Bo Nix.

07:06Matt LaFleur.

07:07Yeah, I think he, I mean, he wins a lot of games.

07:09D'Amico Ryans.

07:11So begrudgingly.

07:12Yeah, he is.

07:13I mean, they had like a little step back, but they're still in the playoffs.

07:16So.

07:16So Tomlin, that's your, that's the top 10.

07:18Tomlin, yeah.

07:19Tomlin or Vrabel?

07:21Uh, Tomlin.

07:22Okay.

07:22So you don't like Payton.

07:23You have questions about Campbell.

07:24So he's like eight or nine already.

07:26Let's get further into it.

07:28Jim Harbaugh.

07:28Oh yeah.

07:29Jim Harbaugh.

07:29Definitely.

07:30Okay.

07:30Sean McDermott.

07:31No.

07:32I don't love McDermott.

07:33Don't you have to give McDermott over Vrabel?

07:34No.

07:35Just because he has Josh Allen?

07:36Yeah.

07:36Okay, fine.

07:37Yeah.

07:37Pete Carroll.

07:39Uh, maybe at one point.

07:40I'd rather have Vrabel now.

07:42Okay.

07:42Than Pete.

07:43Here are the other names before Vrabel.

07:44Tell me if you like any of them, Dan Quinn, Nick Suriani, Kevin Stefanski, Mike McDaniel.

07:49So Dan Quinn, we talked about this last year in the playoffs.

07:52I remember I was shocked that Washington hired Dan Quinn over Bill Belichick.

07:56And then when you look back on it, you're like, well, Dan Quinn's done pretty well.

08:01If you want to, I think he's better.

08:03If you want to crawl about Mike Vrabel going to one AFC title game, Quinn's been to an NFC

08:08title game and a Super Bowl.

08:09Right.

08:10With different teams.

08:11Yeah.

08:11I think you have to say Dan Quinn.

08:13You wouldn't normally think that, but if you really dig into it, I would say Dan Quinn.

08:16Uh, I thought Stefanski was a good coach.

08:20It's hard to properly figure out Stefanski.

08:21He's a two time coach of the year.

08:23I would take, I would take Vrabel over Stefanski.

08:25I would too.

08:26But I think people would just dismiss him.

08:28Sirianni.

08:29So another one where I would probably say I'd rather have Vrabel than Sirianni, but the

08:33guy just won a Super Bowl.

08:35Right.

08:35And the same thing you said about Dan Campbell.

08:37If you swapped them, would you?

08:38So like Campbell, Sirianni, McDermott.

08:40Are they great coaches?

08:42Sirianni won a Super Bowl by getting out of the way.

08:44Yeah.

08:44Kind of.

08:45Yeah.

08:46I mean, AJ Brown almost shoved him in a locker.

08:49I don't really, I don't really respect Sirianni, but I think I would take Vrabel over all

08:51those guys.

08:52Yeah.

08:52I don't really respect Sirianni, but I feel like when you look at the two of them, you

08:55kind of have to give the edge to Sirianni.

08:57Yeah.

08:57I think I would take Vrabel over McDaniel.

08:59The whole McDaniel experience early on was kind of fun.

09:02Two years ago, I would have taken McDaniel.

09:04Yeah.

09:04But now I think because the offense looked as bad as it did, I'm like losing a little bit of

09:08faith in McDaniel.

09:09I'd take Vrabel over him.

09:10So we just went through all the different names.

09:12What about Ben Johnson?

09:14You didn't mention him.

09:15This list didn't have any rookie head coaches on there.

09:17Would you take Ben Johnson over him?

09:18Yeah.

09:18I mean, I'd rather have Ben Johnson.

09:19I would have rather have hired Ben Johnson over him as well.

09:21Good point.

09:22But we don't know.

09:22I guess we don't know if he's better.

09:23There's no track record there.

09:25That's why I think 12 is fair.

09:28He's clearly in the top half of the league.

09:30Yeah.

09:30I would say he's outside the top 10, but he's in the top 15.

09:34Yeah.

09:34But when you're talking about bringing along Drake May and there's no better situation and

09:38it's perfect for him, let's just not go too far with that.

09:40Well, no, because I specifically think just for Drake May, Kevin O'Connell, even Mike

09:45McDaniel, maybe, but like all those offensive genius guys, Ben Johnson, you hate Peyton,

09:50but Peyton for just for Drake May.

09:52Yeah.

09:52I think for the team, I'd rather have Vrabel, but for specifically Drake May, I think Sean

09:56Peyton would probably get a better season out of him.

09:58So I think it is overstated to say there's no better situation.

10:01It's a, it's a good situation and it's light years better than it was a year ago, way better

10:05than, but you don't have to go to the next step to be like, no, no, where else in football

10:09you'd rather be 617-779-7937.

10:13Brandon's in Boston.

10:14Go ahead, Brandon.

10:15Oh, hold on.

10:16Let me take you off speaker.

10:18Please do.

10:19Be safe out there.

10:21Hey, hello.

10:22Yep.

10:23Hi, Brandon.

10:24What's going on?

10:24All right.

10:24So, you know, Jacob has the Patriots, you know, 10, 11 wins.

10:29I don't think this team's good enough to pencil and wins.

10:31You hear me?

10:32So Drake May won one out of 13 games.

10:35So you figure the next season coming with this one, he's probably another game better.

10:39So you talk about two games now with enhancements, with the new acquisitions that the Patriots

10:44had, you talk about three to four wins.

10:45So the margins for this team should be five to seven wins.

10:48Because if they go over that, great.

10:49But the pencil and wins and have that Bill Belichick and Tom Brady, you know, what's

10:57the word I'm looking for?

10:58Not sure.

10:58Yeah, dynastic, something like that.

11:00That's a wild jump around there.

11:03So one win?

11:06Oh.

11:06So he technically, you and I have said this before, like he really won one game.

11:10Yeah, because Jacoby Brissett, he gets credit for, but Brissett beat the Jets.

11:13And then he gets credit for the Joe Milton win against Buffalo, where he played a series.

11:16But then you can't do it that way, where you say, like, he only won one out of 13.

11:20Like, so he didn't lose the other two.

11:22You know what I'm saying?

11:22So like, you got to at least say the win total there was three.

11:25For the team, it was four.

11:27Vegas does not have the Patriots at 11.

11:29No, they haven't favored in 11 games.

11:30So maybe that's what he's talking about.

11:31The over-under is eight and a half.

11:32It's eight and a half.

11:33And in some places, it's seven and a half.

11:35No, it's weighted, right?

11:36You don't win as many hams, but it's seven and a half.

11:38Seven and a half, eight and a half.

11:39So that's not Tom Brady, Bill Belichick.

11:41Those guys' floor was like 12 wins every year.

11:44So nobody's going to that degree.

11:46But to say Drake May is good for two wins, I feel like that is the other extreme.

11:52Like, that's aggressive.

11:54I think you have to take into account their opponents.

11:57And we can talk about how much better the Patriots have gotten with coaching staff and with players.

12:02But one of the reasons, at least for me, the ballooned win total, I have 10, you have nine,

12:09is they play all of the bad teams.

12:11I mean, that's certainly all of it.

12:12Now, they're not going to win them all, but, like, they play all these horrible teams from a year ago.

12:16They have a great schedule.

12:17It's certainly how it looks now.

12:18The schedule can flip on a dime.

12:20Teams that look bad can be good.

12:21Teams that look good can be bad.

12:22I mean, that happens all the time.

12:23Washington looked like a layup a year ago.

12:25And they were in the NFC title game.

12:26So, I mean, that can flip.

12:27But right now, I fully agree.

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