- 5/4/2025
In this classic power-packed conversation, former Navy SEAL and leadership expert Jocko Willink reveals the no-excuses mindset that leads to victory in business, life, and battle. 🏆⚡ Discover how discipline = freedom, why true leaders take full responsibility, and how extreme ownership can transform your life!
Are you ready to step up and take control? 💯
🍿Watch Full Episode: londonreal.tv/jocko
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#JockoWillink #NavySEALs #motivation #ArmyRanger #leadership #selfdevelopment
Are you ready to step up and take control? 💯
🍿Watch Full Episode: londonreal.tv/jocko
💰 The Investment Club: londonreal.tv/club
💰Crypto & DeFi Academy: londonreal.tv/defi
#JockoWillink #NavySEALs #motivation #ArmyRanger #leadership #selfdevelopment
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LearningTranscript
00:00Warriors.
00:14Mythological beings who sacrifice themselves for the greater good.
00:22Supermen.
00:26Protecting us from evil.
00:30Who stare steely-eyed into the face of death.
00:37I always wondered, how would I stack up?
00:42Would I run into the gunfire?
00:46Would I sacrifice my life to defend my country?
00:55How could these people be real?
01:03Yet they were ordinary men.
01:07Who performed at the highest levels in the most brutal environment known to man.
01:13War.
01:19How did they do it?
01:21These men can never tell their stories.
01:27But once I met a man that could.
01:33And I'll never forget the look in his eyes.
01:39This is London Real.
01:41I am Brian Rose.
01:42My guest today is Jocko Willink, who is a retired Navy SEAL officer and author of the number one New York Times and number one Wall Street Journal bestselling book, Extreme Ownership.
01:51Jocko, welcome to London Real.
01:52Thanks for having me on.
01:53You once said that when a nation goes to war, they have to be prepared for two big things.
01:58And one is they have to be prepared to kill and then prepared to die.
02:02Where the will to kill comes in is that we forget that war is an imperfect effort and there's going to be collateral damage.
02:11And when you go and drop bombs on ISIS, you're going to kill some civilians, kill some kids, you're going to kill some women.
02:18And it's awful.
02:20And it is the reality of war.
02:34Jocko Willink is the former Navy SEAL commander of Task Unit Bruiser, one of the most decorated teams in the Iraq War.
02:44A living legend who spent his life on the battlefield.
02:50There he found challenges and reward.
02:58But Jocko is interesting because he's much more than a Navy SEAL.
03:03After years of service, he came back to civilian life with a mission.
03:08To teach ordinary people the lessons he learned on the battlefield.
03:13His mantra, discipline equals freedom.
03:15Do the right things today so you have choices tomorrow.
03:21His doctrine, extreme ownership.
03:24All the bad things that happen in your life are your fault.
03:29His answer, exercise leadership.
03:32In your own life and with others.
03:36Before meeting Jocko, the word leadership didn't mean much to me.
03:49I was a lone wolf.
03:51Doing things my own way.
03:53Avoiding others.
03:54But Jocko made me think again.
03:57Whether you're in the SEAL teams or whether you're in the Army or the Marine Corps, the people that are working for you are not robots.
04:05They're people.
04:07And you cannot give them orders and expect them to just execute like a robot would.
04:11If the military was like that, then military leadership would be the easiest thing in the world.
04:13It would be so easy because you just tell your guys what to do and they go do it.
04:17Ordering people to do things does not work.
04:20You actually have to need them.
04:25Now London Real was growing.
04:27And there was a crucial missing ingredient.
04:31Leadership.
04:33So I listened to Jocko's podcasts, read his books, and applied all the lessons I could.
04:38And I discovered that Jocko is not just a guy beating the war drum.
04:43His lessons are about much more.
04:46Jocko is teaching us about life.
04:49If you break, it means it's time to fortify your will to make it stronger.
04:58In fact, if you break, the fight is just beginning.
05:04And as you crawl up and out of that dismal and wretched place, covered, and you're covered in blood and sweat and dirt and filth as you rise above what you were, you will see that in the very act of standing up, in the very act of fighting on, you will become and you will remain.
05:35Unbroken.
05:45Now, two years later, I had the opportunity to learn from Jocko again.
05:49But this time I want to go big and get Jocko in his element on London's biggest monument to war, the HMS Belfast.
06:01One of the most decorated warships in British history, where true warriors lived and died.
06:10It sank German U-boats, survived underwater mines, and protected the Allied Forces invasion of Normandy in 1944.
06:19It's a ship that befits the man.
06:26I'm here to learn how ordinary men became extraordinary.
06:31And what war can teach us about ourselves from one of the scariest people I've ever met.
06:41You know, last time you were on the show, you talked about like a warrior culture that's here. I know your kids are kind of half British.
06:58Yeah, yeah. Yeah, my wife's a Brit.
07:00I mean, this is the center of London right here. A warship is in the middle of it. And, I mean, I wonder what that says about Britain.
07:08Well, I mean, all you have to do is look at Britain's history to know that they couldn't have survived if it wasn't a warrior culture.
07:17And especially, you know, in World War II. You know, it was the German war machine against this little island.
07:24I think about the city being bombed night after night in 1940. I mean, I guess there's small American equivalents, but it's a whole other ballgame when your territory is being threatened.
07:33For sure. No, there's I mean, I guess the closest you could say is Pearl Harbor, you know, or September 11th.
07:39But even even both those when you compare to the London bombings and the continued attacks night after night after night after night, it's a nightmare.
07:48It's an actual nightmare, you know, and I wouldn't have wanted to be in the Navy in World War II.
07:54You know, I would have been I would rather have been in the Army or in the Marine Corps because on a ship you're at the whim of what's going to hit you.
08:02And you only have so much control over it. It's a hell of a job.
08:09You know, the Tower of London's over there as well. 1066 that was built. I mean, has war changed in the last thousand years?
08:22You know, this is a topic that comes up a lot. And the fact of the matter is, I mean, of course, there's some tactical changes.
08:30There's some there's technological changes, obviously. But at the end of the day, you've got human beings, you know, men with some kind of weapons trying to kill other men.
08:41The human nature behind that and the psychology behind that doesn't change very much as far as I've seen.
08:48People try and say that war is something different, that it can be softer or that there can be other ways.
08:59And sure, that's great. Use other ways if you can find them. But at the end of the day, when everything else fails, it's going to be human beings killing other human beings.
09:12You should try everything you can before you get to that point. But when you get to that point and you've got two belligerents that will not compromise with each other, someone's going to have to fight.
09:24And that's the way it is. It's a real thing. And people are going to die on both sides. And yeah, that's why they say war is hell. And everyone throws that around. But war is actual hell.
09:36War is a nightmare. It is indifferent and devastating.
10:05And devastating and evil.
10:09But war is also an incredible teacher. A brutal teacher.
10:17Teaches you about sorrow and loss and pain. And it teaches you about the preciousness and the fragility of human life.
10:32In war, you are forced to see humanity at its absolute worst. And you are also blessed to see humanity in its most glorious moments.
10:58And unfortunately, war teaches you the most when things go wrong.
11:04What was 18-year-old Jocko like before he joined up with the Navy and then the SEALs?
11:19Oh, I was just a crazy, out of control, rebellious kid, pretty much, you know.
11:23Okay.
11:25And luckily, I joined the military. That was the best thing I could have done. If I could have joined the military when I was 13, I should have done that. But they won't let you.
11:37Did you ever worry that you wouldn't get to fight? You wouldn't get to go to a war?
11:41Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was definitely worried about that.
11:45You feel lucky that you got...
11:47Oh, yeah. Luckiest person in the world, for sure.
11:49When I first got to Iraq, my first deployment, you know, we were all excited to be there. We were all excited to do our job.
11:55It was what we had trained to do. And we had that same mindset, you know, that we're going to go do this.
12:02When you joined the Navy, was it always to be a SEAL?
12:05Yeah.
12:06I don't know the details of what it's like to be in BUDS, but I know in BUDS there is a bell that you ring yourself when you decide to quit, right?
12:14If you want to quit, you ring that bell three times.
12:17You have a helmet with your name on it, and when you quit, you put your helmet by the bell, and they line up the helmets.
12:23There's 200 people or 150 people that start the class. There's a hundred helmets of people that quit.
12:29Grown men whose dream it was to be a SEAL that get there, that did all this physical training and all this preparation,
12:36and signed that dotted line and committed to six years, and they show up there, and they get to that training, and they ring that bell.
12:42No one knows who's going to make it through that program.
12:45The only way to know what's in the core of a human being is to rip that thing apart and see what's in there, and until you rip it apart and see what's in there, you don't know.
12:59You're watching the kids, and they're beat down, they're chafed, they're bleeding between their legs.
13:06It's just misery, and then you get the result.
13:13What does it take to not ring the bell?
13:15Don't quit.
13:18People always ask me, what should I concentrate on? What's your advice for me going to BUDS?
13:22Don't quit. Don't quit.
13:24Don't quit.
13:25Like, train hard, don't quit.
13:30Or quit, because we don't want you here.
13:36Do not take the easy way out.
13:41Do not give up based on instinct.
13:44If you are forced to stand down, to retreat, so that you can rebuild and re-attack, so be it.
13:57But make that decision based on logic.
14:03Not on the instinct of surrender and defeat.
14:07And you need to train that instinct.
14:17Your instinct.
14:19Train it to say, get up.
14:22Go.
14:23Fight on.
14:25And if that is what you become, if that becomes your fundamental reaction to adversity, if that becomes your gut instinct,
14:38Then, you will overcome just about anything that stands in your path.
15:01Boom.
15:02Yeah.
15:07Boom.
15:17Can you imagine the noise?
15:19You're in here.
15:21You don't even know what's happening outside, right?
15:23I mean, you don't know where the enemies come in.
15:25You don't know what they're shooting.
15:26You're just in here doing your job.
15:28That's gotta be a horrifying feeling.
15:33Respect.
15:34Evil is like a big theme that a lot of your podcasts have.
15:38Like recognizing there's evil out there.
15:41Yeah.
15:42There's evil inside all of us.
15:43It seems like you're constantly telling people, be on the watch, or be aware of this.
15:48Yeah.
15:49And part of that, part of the reason for that is like I said earlier, you can be very comfortable living in America.
15:55And you can forget that there's evil people out there.
15:59And a lot of them.
16:00And they can do the most heinous and horrendous and horrific things.
16:04And you need to be reminded of that.
16:07So that you, two things.
16:08Number one, you appreciate what you have.
16:11And number two, you are on at least some kind of awareness that these people are out there.
16:17Because if you think the world is filled with, you know, rainbows and lollipops, it's gonna be a rude awakening when something bad happens.
16:27So it's important.
16:28It's important to understand that there's evil in the world, for sure.
16:31So we have to constantly be on the watch because it's inside all of us.
16:35And so it can start growing kind of like a mold grows.
16:38Yeah.
16:39And I don't want to sit here and sound like I'm all paranoid and like waiting for everyone to start doing evil things.
16:44Because that's not true.
16:45Because there's a lot of good in people as well.
16:47And there's people that do unbelievably heroic things.
16:49Even in the face of horror and in the face of evil, there's people that stand up and do incredibly heroic things.
16:56Knowing that they're gonna sacrifice their life or whatever horrible situation they're gonna encounter.
17:01What you have to do is you have to understand human nature.
17:04And you have to understand that there are both sides to human nature.
17:07And that people can be led down the wrong path.
17:10And that people can do horrible things.
17:12And you also have to realize that people can be led down a good path.
17:15And that people can do the right things.
17:18The thing that reveals human nature clearer than any other situation is when human beings are put in traumatic scenarios.
17:27And whether that's war, whether it's an atrocity, whether it's a prison camp, that's where human nature is revealed.
17:32And again, in war, you see the best side of human nature.
17:36And you can also see the worst side of human nature.
17:38And that's why I talk about war a lot.
17:40When you were on last time, you know, ISIS was flaring up and doing some horrible things.
17:45And you said ISIS must be killed.
17:47Yeah.
17:48It was an accurate statement.
17:51Right.
17:52And now you're starting to see the aftermath of what they've left behind.
17:56And sick, sadistic, it's unspeakable horrors.
18:05It's absolutely unspeakable horrors what they were doing.
18:11War is not the best option.
18:13But in situations like that, where you've got people that are doing the most despicable and vile and evil things to other human beings.
18:24I don't know that there's any other choice.
18:26Do you ever think about how something like that happens, you know, in this age of the information age and how this little pocket opens up with a black flag and people doing these inhuman things?
18:36I mean, do you ever wonder how that happens?
18:38Well, I'm not surprised.
18:41Even the My Lai Masker is a great example because when leadership fails, people can be led pretty easily to do bad things because people are human beings.
18:53People are animals.
18:55And if people are led the wrong way, they can do horrible things.
18:59And that's a classic example.
19:00The My Lai Masker, they murdered, raped, mutilated 500 innocent, mostly women and children.
19:11And when the report got back, one of the helicopters got back and said, hey, this is what's happening.
19:16These guys are out there killing people, innocent people.
19:19One person got on the radio and called up and said, stop killing people.
19:23And they literally stopped immediately.
19:26They literally stopped immediately.
19:29And that's the power of leadership.
19:33And that's why it's a complete leadership failure.
19:36Because if someone would have said, hey, wait, no, stop what you're doing.
19:40Hey, we're not doing that.
19:41If someone would have said that early on, it wouldn't have happened.
19:43But the leaders actually led them down that dark path.
19:47And that's why it doesn't surprise me when you get some sick leaders from ISIS that lead these people down that path who have some sort of twisted evil inside of them that could be restrained if they were led properly.
20:03But when it becomes unrestrained and they're led incorrectly and they're led immorally, that's what happens.
20:10And a lot of other people are talking about peace and love and forgiveness.
20:15And you seem like one of the few people out there that are saying, OK, that's great.
20:19But let's also focus on this thing.
20:21Well, of course.
20:22Yeah, peace is peace is awesome.
20:24And there's no one that wishes for peace more than people that have been to war.
20:30Because when the war drums sound, it's my friends that are going to fight.
20:36That's that's who's going to fight.
20:37It's my friends that are going to to put their lives on the line.
20:41So when the when the war drums sound, the people that have been to war, the ones that actually say, let's think about this first.
20:49So and, you know, you see that all the time with politicians of they don't understand war.
20:55They never went to war.
20:56They want to send everyone to war and like, no, actually, you should think about it.
21:01You think about what what the goal is, what the end state is, if there's any way we can avoid this conflict, because like I said before, and like everyone says all the time and they say it like it's no big deal.
21:12But war is hell when you take a 18 year old kid and you're going to go put him in a situation where he's going to have to kill people and possibly get wounded or possibly get killed himself.
21:23That's traumatic experience.
21:24And so before you do that, you should think about why you're doing it.
21:29You should understand where you're going, understand what your goals are and understand if if the people have the will to fight.
21:40And the will to fight, as I've said many times before, the will to fight is the will to kill and it's the will to die.
21:46And those are some pretty big wills that you need to have.
21:49One of the most impactful lessons that I've learned from war was in the spring of 2006 in the city of Ramadi, Iraq, which at the time was the epicenter of the insurgency.
22:16Through a series of mistakes, a horrendous firefight broke out.
22:26This firefight tragically was between us and us.
22:35And it was reported up the chain of command what had happened.
22:42That we had fought and wounded and killed each other.
22:47It meant that somebody had to pay.
22:50It meant that somebody had to be held accountable.
22:53It meant that somebody had to get fired for what had happened.
22:58There was plenty of blame to go around.
23:02There were so many people that I could incriminate with guilt.
23:08And then I told them that there was only one person at fault for what had happened.
23:15There was only one person to blame.
23:17And that person was me.
23:21I am the commander.
23:26I am the senior man on the battlefield.
23:28And I am responsible for everything that happens.
23:32Everything.
23:34And you know what?
23:41I didn't get fired.
23:43In fact, my commanding officer, when I took responsibility, when I took ownership, he now trusted me even more.
23:56And my men, they didn't lose respect for me.
24:03Everyone took ownership of their mistakes.
24:06Everyone took ownership of the problems.
24:09And when a team takes ownership of its problems, the problems get solved.
24:17So, I gotta make a confession.
24:22When you were on London Real two years ago, I hadn't yet read Extreme Ownership.
24:27But you made a bit of an impression on me, Jaco.
24:30And so afterwards, I read it and listened to it many, many times.
24:34And so did the whole team.
24:36And I'm constantly trying to remind myself to take Extreme Ownership.
24:40And usually when I'm telling someone else to take Extreme Ownership, I realize I'm not.
24:47And I know you wrote that with Leif on the lessons you learned in Ramadi.
24:51But when it comes to that idea and that concept, what's the biggest way people get that wrong?
24:57The biggest obstacle is their ego, right?
25:00That's the biggest obstacle is we don't want to take the blame for when things go wrong.
25:04We want to blame everyone else.
25:05And it's what you just said.
25:07And I actually talk about this.
25:10When I talk to companies and I talk about Extreme Ownership, I actually say it's about you.
25:16And if your boss isn't giving you what you need, that's not your boss's fault.
25:20It's your fault.
25:21If your team isn't doing what they're supposed to be doing, that's not your team's fault.
25:25It's your fault.
25:26You're the one that's in charge of the team.
25:28You're in charge of them.
25:29If they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing, it's your fault.
25:33So that's the biggest obstacle is people realizing that it's about you.
25:39And when you do take ownership of a situation, it starts to spread through the organization.
25:46It naturally starts to spread through the organization because if I say to my team,
25:51guys, this wasn't your fault.
25:52This is my fault.
25:53Here's what we're going to do to fix it.
25:54My team looks at me and says, you know what?
25:56We should have done a better job.
25:58They don't say, yeah, you're right.
25:59It's your fault.
26:00They don't do that.
26:01They say, we should have done a better job.
26:02I should have owned this.
26:03I should have stepped up.
26:04And now you start to have an organization where everyone on the team takes ownership.
26:07And that's a totally different.
26:08That is when you become unstoppable.
26:10Take ownership.
26:12Take extreme ownership.
26:15Don't make excuses.
26:17Don't blame any other person or any other thing.
26:24Get control of your ego.
26:27Don't hide your delicate pride from the truth.
26:35Take ownership of everything in your world.
26:39The good and the bad.
26:43Take ownership of your mistakes.
26:46Take ownership of your shortfalls.
26:48Take ownership of your problems.
26:50And then take ownership of the solutions that will get those problems solved.
26:56It's a constant reminder that it's the ego.
26:59That's what I'm finding out.
27:00And it's honestly, leadership, it's something I stayed away from.
27:04I used to work in the city in one of these big banks here.
27:06And I never wanted to lead a team.
27:08And I was like, I don't want to do that.
27:09And now that I'm forced to, it's the most humbling experience.
27:13It's the biggest, steepest learning curve I've ever been on.
27:16Every day is a day where I've got to just drop the ego again and drop the ego and look in the mirror.
27:22It's challenging.
27:23Oh yeah.
27:24Leadership is the most challenging thing in the world because you've got all these people that you're dealing with that are crazy.
27:29Including yourself.
27:30Because you've got your big ego and you've got this going on.
27:33And yeah, that's what makes leadership hard.
27:35You know, another analogy I use is like being a woodworker.
27:38So, if you're a woodworker, you have to learn how to work all the different tools.
27:42Just like in your leadership, you've got different leadership tools.
27:44And then you have to know how to apply those tools to all these different types of wood.
27:49And then, once you know about the different types of wood, each individual piece of wood is different.
27:54Just like every individual human being is different.
27:56And so, being a leader is always hard.
27:59Because you're dealing with different tools, different types of wood, and then different individual pieces down on the front lines.
28:10Lead.
28:12Lead yourself and your team and the people in your life.
28:19Lead them all to victory.
28:26Lead.
28:36And so, you started as an enlisted guy and you went back and got your degree.
28:42And it always surprised me the degree you got, because I think most people thought you would've got a degree in like demolition.
28:50How did you choose your degree?
28:53Yeah, so yeah, I was an English major and I got my degree in English because I realized when I showed up at what well
28:59While I was heading to college. I said what's gonna be the most beneficial?
29:04What's what will help me the most be able to do a good job as a seal officer?
29:09Have good command of the English language be able to write well be able to read well and be able to speak well
29:14That's that's why I did it and to serve you well
29:17Yeah, it was it was very helpful, very helpful. It was helpful in everything I did. Yeah
29:23And so you're reading all the classics and poems and Shakespeare Shakespeare don't people surprised to hear that no Shakespeare's I
29:33Always recommend people read Shakespeare and Shakespeare was very very helpful for me
29:40This day is called the feast of Crispian
29:45He that outlives this day and comes home safe will stand a tiptoe
29:49When the day is named and rouse him at the name of Crispian
29:56He that shall see this day and live old age will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbors and say tomorrow is Saint Crispian
30:04Crispian
30:05Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars and say these wounds I had on Crispian's day
30:19Old men forget
30:22Yet all shall be forgot but
30:24He'll remember with advantages what feats he did that day
30:32Then shall our names
30:35Familiar in his mouth as household words Harry the King Bedford and Exeter
30:40Warwick and Talbot Salisbury and Gloucester
30:44Be in their flowing cups freshly remembered
30:47This story shall the good man teach his son
30:56And Crispian shall ne'er go by
30:58From this day to the ending of the world
31:00From this day to the ending of the world
31:02But we in it shall be remembered
31:04We few
31:06We happy few
31:08We band of brothers
31:10For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother
31:18For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother
31:28Which leads me to my next question
31:30Children's books
31:32Way of the Warrior Kid
31:33Most people didn't see this coming
31:35When they see you on the surface they see
31:37Jocko Willink
31:39Former badass US Navy SEAL
31:41First of all what's he doing with an English major
31:43Second of all why is he writing a children's book?
31:45You realize
31:47How hard it is to be a kid
31:49Right and this is something I got four kids
31:51So being a kid is hard
31:53And as adults we think being a kid is easy
31:55And for them when you're a kid and you're getting picked on
31:57When you're a kid and you don't know your times tables
31:59Or when you're a kid and you don't know your times tables
32:01Or when you're a kid and you don't know your times tables
32:03Or when you're a kid and someone's making fun of you
32:06Or you don't know how to swim
32:08Those are real
32:09That's your whole world
32:10So it is hard to be a kid
32:12And I wanted these books to help kids realize that
32:15Yeah it's hard but you can get through it
32:17But yeah the book has done phenomenally well
32:21And I get incredible feedback from all over the world
32:24About kids that are on the right path
32:26And it's a real simple kind of architecture
32:32Archetype story
32:34But that's what it is
32:36Mark's this boy and you know he's
32:39Doesn't have a male figure in his life
32:41Which I think was an interesting choice
32:42And so Mark learns all sorts of things
32:45He learns jujitsu which is awesome
32:47He learns how to get over
32:50I guess mental and physical barriers
32:53That sometimes he just set up in his brain right?
32:55Fears
32:56It's true
32:57It's those simple straightforward
32:59And that's the thing
33:00Uncle Jake has to explain this stuff to a 10 year old kid
33:02There's no cryptic messages there
33:04It's like here's the deal kid
33:06Here's what you need to do
33:07If you want to win
33:08If you want to get through this
33:09If you want to get over that
33:10And so it's really a good book for people to take that lesson away from
33:14Take those very simple lessons away
33:18Well I pre-ordered the next warrior kid book
33:21So I'm looking forward to that one
33:22Right on
33:23And you know I know I want to get my boys in jujitsu as soon as possible
33:26I think two still a little young
33:28But they probably won't listen to me
33:30So it's good that Mark's doing jujitsu
33:32Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure
33:46Remember me
33:49I am the fallen soldier, sailor, airman, and marine
33:55I am the one that held the line
33:57Remember what I sacrificed
34:02So you can truly appreciate the incredible treasures you have
34:09Never forget where it all came from
34:12It came from sacrifice
34:14The supreme sacrifice
34:20Don't waste it
34:23Don't waste any of your time on this earth
34:27Live a life that honors the sacrifice of our fallen heroes
34:39Remember them always
34:41Most recently I had a guy on named Dakota Meyer
34:45That podcast was the hardest podcast for me to do
34:53And it's because
34:54It's for a bunch of reasons that I didn't even talk about on the podcast
34:58Because we
35:00It was too much
35:02But you know I'm sitting here talking to a guy that
35:04He lost his whole team
35:06He lost his whole team
35:08He lost his whole team
35:10And I'm sitting there thinking about
35:12You know, they're calling for help
35:14They're calling for support
35:15And they're not getting it
35:17And for me thinking about like if my guys were in the field
35:21What would I be thinking?
35:22What would I be doing?
35:23What would I feel?
35:25If I was in those situations where my guys weren't getting the support they needed in the field
35:29And you know, just to be sitting across from Dakota who's just a
35:33You know, he was 21 years old when that happened
35:3621 years old when that happened
35:38And to sit across from him and be able to talk to him about it
35:43Yeah, it was
35:45It was
35:48It was a very, very, very tough podcast to do
35:51And it was an honor to have Dakota on
35:53He's an incredible human being
35:55And
35:56You went silent a bunch on that one
35:58I was listening, I didn't watch you
36:00And I couldn't tell what was going on with you
36:02But there were times where you just went silent for like 10 seconds or 15 seconds
36:06Yeah, there's a lot of moments of silence in that podcast
36:08There's a lot of time where I didn't have anything to say
36:12Dakota didn't have anything to say
36:13And we just sat there
36:16You know, it's a real, real emotional for both of us
36:20Ganjagal was one of the deadliest small arms battles
36:24Of the Afghanistan war
36:27Bullets caused most of the casualties
36:30Ganjagal was a mountain fight from an earlier century
36:32An earlier century
36:42And
36:50It's a fight from an earlier century
36:52But uh
37:09But some things don't change
37:11That's a fact
37:12It's a fact
37:17Is this you kind of being a therapist to these guys to a certain extent?
37:20I don't think I'm a therapist
37:21I think I'm a therapist to myself
37:23I think this stuff helps me more than it helps them
37:26You know, I think it's
37:29It helps me
37:30I learned more
37:32I learned so much from all these guys
37:34All these guests that I've had on my podcast
37:36All the books that I've read on my podcast
37:38So it's
37:40It's good
37:42I'm real lucky that I kind of
37:44Rolled into that
37:46And it's not just the learning
37:47It's this emotional processing
37:49Like you know, you're having emotional moments
37:51So you're figuring things out
37:52And so is Dakota
37:54And then not to mention the million other people that are listening
37:57A lot of those veterans
37:59Who don't know how to process it
38:01Some of them, maybe they're drinking
38:03Or on the pills
38:04Or don't know their next mission
38:06I mean, watching you guys have that emotional three hour ride
38:09I mean, that must
38:11Be therapy for people out there
38:13Yeah, and I've
38:16Many times people say
38:18They pull their car over while they're driving
38:20And they have to stop
38:21And they have to cry
38:22Or they have to stop and they have to listen
38:23They have to stop and they have to think
38:25So, yeah, I think it hits people
38:28In a pretty impactful way
38:30And it hits me that way too
38:32When I'm talking on the podcast
38:35Like, I don't see millions of people
38:38But I know some of the people that are listening
38:40I know who they are
38:41And some of them aren't here anymore
38:44You know, like I know my guys are listening
38:47I always picture that my guys
38:48I always picture that Mark Lee's listening
38:50And he's putting me in check
38:52You know, Mike Monsoor is listening
38:54He's putting me in check
38:56In conjunction with them, you know
38:58It's like the people that I've met
39:00That have been through really traumatic experiences
39:02And it's everyone from like the single mom
39:03That's working three different jobs
39:05And she's like, thank you for making that podcast
39:07That's keeping me going
39:09That's keeping me at work
39:11That's keeping me in the game right now
39:13They feel like they know me
39:15And I feel like I know them too
39:17Because we've had the same big long
39:20Two, three, four hour conversations
39:23And that's hard to do with people these days
39:26You know, it's hard to have a conversation with somebody
39:28That without looking at their phone
39:30And without checking email
39:32And to sit down for three hours
39:34Or four hours
39:36And look someone in the eye
39:37And talk to them
39:38It doesn't happen that often anymore
39:40So there's a real connection that gets made
39:42Yeah, and it's heightened
39:43Because you know people are watching
39:45People are listening
39:47Not to mention those guys up above or wherever
39:50Watching
39:51And it makes even Jocko Willink raise his game
39:54Yeah, absolutely
39:55Absolutely
39:56Absolutely
39:57I don't want to
39:58I don't want to do anything
39:59To dishonor my friends
40:01For sure
40:03Final words to people out there
40:05That are looking for answers in themselves
40:08You know, what do you tell them?
40:10If they want to know how they can get out of the hole they're in
40:13You know, I would say this
40:15And I've said it before
40:17There's not one answer
40:19And it's not a simple answer
40:21And it's not one battle
40:26It's a campaign
40:28And your life is a campaign
40:30It's a campaign of battles
40:31And some battles are going to win
40:32And some battles are going to lose
40:34But what you want to do is win the campaign
40:35You want to win the war
40:37So when you lose a battle
40:39Don't get distraught
40:40You know, that's no reason to surrender
40:42It's one battle
40:43Step back up, regroup
40:45Go and attack again
40:46Win the campaign and win the war
40:47Recalibrate, re-engage, reload
40:53There you go
40:54And go back out on the attack
40:55Go back out on the attack
40:56Yep, yep, that's it
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